From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #264 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, August 22 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 264 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: chord changes ["hell" ] shelly fabares and the donna reed show [Aerchak@aol.com] Re: chord changes [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] My take on Beat of Black Wings [Notaro@stpt.usf.edu] Joni/Jonifest posters for sale [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] Re: chord changes ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: My take on Beat of Black Wings [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Sad news and coming together as a community [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] Re: chord changes [Catherine McKay ] Re: My take on Beat of Black Wings [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni/Jonifest posters for sale [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] Baseball and "The Circle Game" (SJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] The Inside Story Of Joni Mitchell [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] The Magdalene Sisters ["c Karma" ] Re: Joni chord changes ["StephenToogood" ] joni/king/bach/ravel ["Wally Kairuz" ] Man from Mars - David Sanborn [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: The Magdalene Sisters ["Mark or Travis" ] "help me" in starbucks [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: "help me" in starbucks [Rusty10113@aol.com] Re: The Inside Story Of Joni Mitchell [Michael Paz ] Re: chord changes [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: chord changes [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #413 [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Today in History: August 22 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: August 22 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: joni/king/bach/ravel ["StephenToogood" ] Re: The Magdalene Sisters ["kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:16:27 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: chord changes Kenny B wrote: > Bob, I've got to tell you, I get really hooked on certain chord changes. > My piano teacher and I had a big discussion on this subject one evening and > she says people have individual reactions to certain musical notes and chords > and everyone is a bit different in the combinations that most affect them. We > may share a love for the same chord but then you and I may differ on our > appreciation of others. I don't know if you'd class this as a "chord change" - probably not, in fact. But one of the reasons Two Grey Rooms is one of my favourite songs, is the harmonies and melody when she sings "with a view...." There's something really haunting about that one line, that seems to convey the whole emotion of the song with just those three words. She definitely IS SIQUOMB! Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 07:28:16 EDT From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: shelly fabares and the donna reed show Thank you. She was on the Donna Reed show. I knew it was one of those 60s family shows that didn't remotely resemble my family. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 08:20:28 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: chord changes In a message dated 8/21/2003 6:16:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: > But one of the reasons Two Grey Rooms is one of my favourite songs, > is the harmonies and melody when she sings "with a > view...." Yes, isn't that a great musical phrase? I think it almost conjures up the joy & happiness the singer feels when he/she looks out the window and sees the person that he/she is infatuated with. It strikes me as a counter to the musical melancholia of the section that precede it. #1 Joni chord change - those first 2 chords in Hejira! Although now that I think about it, some of those chord runs in "Down To You" give it stiff competition. Bob NP: Waits, "Johnsburg, IL" 2/4/96 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 08:28:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Notaro@stpt.usf.edu Subject: My take on Beat of Black Wings The tune of the chorus is definitely that of the Shelley Fabares Johnny Angel (Joni, the first sampler!). She also then changes it to Charlie's Angels, a reference both to the huge hit of the time, and Charlie, nickname for the Viet Cong. All this is Joni's imagery at its brilliant finest, especially since the Shelley Fabares song harks back to a more innocent time when a young girl dreams of her soldier boyfriend: Johnny Angel, how I love him He's got something that I can't resist But he doesn't even know that I-I-I exist The juxtaposition of the two is the harsh reality which the Vietnam War brought to the world consciousness. Joni's description about meeting the soldier who inspired this song is worth a listen. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 08:56:19 EDT From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Joni/Jonifest posters for sale For those that have asked where they can find the pictures of the different posters for sale, Les has now set up an order form for the 2003 Jonifest poster, including the Paypal link or the address to send a check once you fill out the form at the main page of the JMDL. Go to: www.jmdl.com The poster from 2003 is at the top of the page, and the link to Jack's prints is at the very bottom under "Help support the Joni Mitchell Internet Community." Hope that helps! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:03:58 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: chord changes > #1 Joni chord change - those first 2 chords in Hejira! > > Although now that I think about it, some of those chord runs in > "Down To You" give it stiff competition. > I love unusual chord changes...Hejira is an excellent choice, and I would extend that to include the third chord where the voice comes in. Two Grey Rooms, has some beautiful chords as well. I also love the chords in "Amelia", which is probably a major reason its one of my favorite songs. The chords Joni uses are a big part I think of what makes her music so unique. Being as intangible as they are, I find it hard to discuss chords and changes as they seem to speak on a much deeper level than words can. Perhaps that is why music seems so genuine and otherworldly and politicians are rather suspect and duplicitous. "If songs were lines in a conversation, The situation would be fine." Nick Drake Victor NP: The Neal Boortz Show Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:06:57 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: My take on Beat of Black Wings In a message dated 8/21/2003 8:28:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Notaro@stpt.usf.edu writes: > since the Shelley Fabares song harks back to a more > innocent time when a young > girl dreams of > her soldier boyfriend: But Shelley's song isn't REALLY about longing for her soldier boyfriend, there's nothing lyrically that indicates that...BUT when that song was a hit (March 1962) The Shirelles were also enjoying their hit "Soldier Boy" so it's probably common to associate the 2 songs with each other. Question...how could Johnny Angel NOT KNOW that Shelley existed? She was quite a beauty; I remember having a tremendous crush on her, especially in those Elvis flicks. I agree that the textures that Joni weaves in BOBW (sorry Catherine) are wonderful and make the rest of the record pale in comparison. Bob NP: Waits, "Big Joe & Phantom 309" (2/4/96) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:10:05 EDT From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Sad news and coming together as a community Apologies to Joni-onlies, but I thought there might be a few of you that would want this info, so I did not mark it NJC. Many of you are aware that Mags lost her dear brother very unexpectedly at the beginning of this week. Several of you have asked what they can do to help support Mags and Brian at this extremely difficult time. The fact is, they could really use some help with the unexpected expense this has brought to them, especially in the way of airfare. If any of you would like to make a donation to help Brian and Mags, please send it to: Ashara Productions, LLC 40 Parsonage Lane Topsfield, MA 01983 USA or you can paypal the donation to this e-mail address. Thanks for being the wonderful, caring community that you are. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:19:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: chord changes --- Victor Johnson wrote: > > The chords Joni uses are a big part I think of what > makes her music so > unique. Being as intangible as they are, I find it > hard to discuss chords > and changes as they seem to speak on a much deeper > level than words can. > Perhaps that is why music seems so genuine and > otherworldly and politicians > are rather suspect and duplicitous. If you know a lot about music theory (which I don't - I've only got rudimentary theory), you could probably discuss these chords and changes in ordinary language - - except that most people wouldn't have a clue what you were talking about anyway (LOL). When you try to express music in language, that makes it all kind of dry and removes that element of other-dimensionality that music seems to have. I'd rather listen to it than talk about it (although if I hear a "weird chord", I do want to know what makes it different.) In fact, you can't just talk about it anyway - if you take music theory, the teacher will talk about it, then play what s/he's talking about and try to explain it. Music seems to be more organic than mere speech - maybe one day the human race will communicate in musical form (and then we'll all get along - ha ha ha - - we'd be serenading one another all the time. And unfortunately I think you're right about the politicians. It's a lot easier to lie with words than with music. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:21:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: My take on Beat of Black Wings --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > I agree that the textures that Joni weaves in BOBW > (sorry Catherine) > are wonderful and make the rest of the record pale > in comparison. Just what we need - another BOB! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:23:37 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: chord changes In a message dated 8/21/2003 9:05:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: > The chords Joni uses are a big part I think of what makes her music so > unique. I finished watching the Joni tribute in Toronto last night. When she sat down at the piano to play, she was talking (Joni TALK????) about when she wrote "Paprika Plains." She said she kept making up all these strange chords which sounded good, and THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS A WRONG CHORD! So you're right Victor! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:27:50 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni/Jonifest posters for sale Ashara, are the final numbers in on how much was raised for JoniMitchell.com? I know the raffle brought in close to $900, but how about the donations for attending the fest? Just curious, Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:43:09 -0400 From: Dave Cuneo Subject: Steely Dan concert Ciao Joniphiles, My three favorite artists have always been Joni, Tony Bennett and Steely Dan, (the "Beatles" of the 70's). I first heard Joni in a serious way in fall of 1975 in my senior year of college so I was a latecomer to Joni for my age. I had been listening to Tony since birth because my old man loved him. When I was in college, none of my classmates even knew who Tony was, even though he had been huge during the fifties and early sixties. They used to think I was strange for going off and listening to my Tony and Frank Sinatra albums while everyone else was into other stuff at the time. But once you listen to Tony singing that classic American music you get hooked - and his piano player Ralph Sharon is amazing. Steely Dan was fabulous Sunday night in NJ. Donald Fagen's genius ( and I suppose Walter Becker as well) is equal to Joni's, but of course is expressed in a different style. If you get a chance to see SD don't miss it. This is the third time I have seen them at the Garden State Arts Center - unfortunately I have only seen Joni once, in 1983 at the Mann in Philly. ciao, dave. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:01:44 EDT From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni/Jonifest posters for sale In a message dated 8/21/2003 9:27:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, FMY FL writes: > Ashara, are the final numbers in on how much was raised for > JoniMitchell.com? > I know the raffle brought in close to $900, but how about the donations for > attending the fest? > The total was over $2,200 for JoniMitchell.com. YAY US!!!!!!!!!!!! :-) Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:12:16 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Baseball and "The Circle Game" (SJC) This article would be particularly interesting to Vince, Victor, Chuck in Toronto (if you're still arond), and any other baseball fans. Also to Nikki in Philadelphia. The writer uses Joni's song to *full circle* some of the Phillie players. http://story.theinsiders.com/a.z?s=228&p=2&c=170084 Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:45:07 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: The Inside Story Of Joni Mitchell Amazon says that this book (another one by Stacy Luftig) is coming out this month... http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0825672856/qid=1061482923/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_6/104-9140060-4554367?v=glance&s=books Maybe it's going to tell us who all of these songs are about! ;~) Bob NP: Ralph Towner/Gary Burton, "Some Other Time" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:04:57 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: The Magdalene Sisters I've been traveling on business much of the summer and finally landed back in New York after a jam packed trip to San Francisco. It sounds like JoniFest was a blast, again. Once the lights came back on and my project had a momentary respite, I ran to catch a screening of Peter Mullan's film, "The Magdalene Sisters." Of course, I'd read that it was about the Magdalene Laundries in Ireland as depicted in the song most of us are quite familiar with. If the film is showing in your area, please try to put it on your list. You won't be disappointed. It surprised me that I'd seen no mention of the film on the list prior. I went back and searched through jmdl.com to see if there had been discussion, but found none. Forgive me if discussion has occurred. The film is set in 1964, and principally involves the relationship among four women at the institution over a period of years. One is the victim of rape, one a new mother who is separated from her son (how very devastating for Joni, herself an estranged birth mother of the same era to view), one a flirtatious orphan, and the last an emotionally fragile victim of abuse. A bravura performance is given by Geraldine MeEwen (who, if not already cast as Dolores Umbrage in the fifth Harry Potter, I will eat an entire millinery shop) as Sister Bridget, the nun running the institution and its principal task master. The harrowing depiction of the conditions under which these women slaved under the fear of both their faith and physical abuse by the emotionally stunted caretakers was even more efficiently created by Joni's words. The film doesn't reference Joni's song, but instead credits inspiration to a documentary film, "Sex in a Cold Climate." A woman I spoke to after the screening who had grown up in Dublin during the same era had memories of her family sending laundry to "the nuns... who knew?" We traded remembrances on the crisply laundered habits worn by nuns back then and the scent (or odor, depending on your experience) of the soaps they used. She was also aware of The Chieftans' version of "The Magdalene Laundries" and was expecting to have heard the song on the soundtrack. Perhaps it would have been redundant to take four and a half minutes to distill what we'd seen over two hours? Has anyone else seen this film or the documentary on whicih it claims to be based? CC "Surely to God you'd think some bells should ring." -- JM _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 19:46:16 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: Joni chord changes I love the change in 'Barangrill' when she sings (I don't know the names): "show me the way... to Barangrill". It's so breathtaking. Well really I love all the chord changes in that song! I think it's suppose to sound a bit quirky to emphasize the sense of irony. I've noticed Joni always covers everything right down to the last detail. Joni's chord changes do make her music so unique. I remember reading something in 'Shadows & Light (my Bible!)' about Joni's tunings, and about her chord movements: The veteran British-born jazz pianist and percussionist Victor Fieldman - who had played on The Hissing Of Summer Lawns and Hejira and had worked with Klein - also came in. But this virtu- oso musician, writer of music textbooks, was struggling with Mitchell's idiosyncratic open tunings on one track, 'Moon At The Window'. Klein recalls Fieldman's unaccustomed discomfort: He was playing on this piece and just had this grimace on his face, and I remember Joni going out into the studio and saying, 'what's the matter, Victor?' She thought he didn't like the words because they were about a friend of hers who had become agoraphobic somewhat and was haunted by memories, and Victor was such an Englishman, such a happy man. So she said, 'Victor, do you not like the song?' and he said, 'No actually, I hate it!' What he meant was the way the chords moved was - and I explained this to her after the fact - so antithetical to the logic of Tin Pan Alley songwriting, which really formed the basis of what jazz theory was, that he just didn't know what to think about it. The way the chords moved was so strange to him that it just felt absolutely wrong. Joni was never conditioned from a theoretical standpoint by that Tin Pan Alley logic in regard to chord movement. She's not hemmed in by it at all and she moves the chords just in the way that they feel right to her. She was the James Joyce of guitar tunings. Steve T My new email address: amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk NP: 'Ladies Of The Canyon' - Joni - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine McKay" To: "Victor Johnson" ; "hell" ; ; ; Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 2:19 PM Subject: Re: chord changes > --- Victor Johnson wrote: > > > The chords Joni uses are a big part I think of what > > makes her music so > > unique. Being as intangible as they are, I find it > > hard to discuss chords > > and changes as they seem to speak on a much deeper > > level than words can. > > Perhaps that is why music seems so genuine and > > otherworldly and politicians > > are rather suspect and duplicitous. > > If you know a lot about music theory (which I don't - > I've only got rudimentary theory), you could probably > discuss these chords and changes in ordinary language > - except that most people wouldn't have a clue what > you were talking about anyway (LOL). When you try to > express music in language, that makes it all kind of > dry and removes that element of other-dimensionality > that music seems to have. I'd rather listen to it than > talk about it (although if I hear a "weird chord", I > do want to know what makes it different.) In fact, you > can't just talk about it anyway - if you take music > theory, the teacher will talk about it, then play what > s/he's talking about and try to explain it. > > Music seems to be more organic than mere speech - > maybe one day the human race will communicate in > musical form (and then we'll all get along - ha ha ha > - we'd be serenading one another all the time. > > And unfortunately I think you're right about the > politicians. It's a lot easier to lie with words than > with music. > > > > ===== > Catherine > Toronto > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:04:53 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: joni/king/bach/ravel stephen, you've put it so precisely! i think that a popular music education should be based on the study of the music of carole king and that of joni mitchell. with king you learn all the conventions of pop, even a measure of "conventional inventiveness". after studying her music you can write pop very proficiently. she's the "bach period" that everybody must go through when studying composition. joni is the "ravel period", when one begins to deconstruct and later integrate all the traditional music education one's had. in joni's chord structures you find all those old friends but in entirely new clothes. snippets of pop chord progressions will show up now and then but in fragments and in totally unexpected contexts. get king and you'll get the beatles, the standards, etc.. get joni and you'll get all that with a new perspective plus the key to understanding all the rest. (disclaimer: i am NOT comparing the musicianship of bach and ravel with those of king and mitchell. i am drawing an analogy between bach's and ravel's places in a musician's education and the roles of king and mitchell in a pop musician's learning process.) wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > StephenToogood > Enviado el: Jueves, 21 de Agosto de 2003 03:46 p.m. > Para: Joni List > Asunto: Re: Joni chord changes > > > She's not > hemmed in by it at all and she moves the chords just in > the way that they feel right to her. She was the James > Joyce of guitar tunings. > Steve T ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 19:49:28 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Man from Mars - David Sanborn This may have been mentioned earlier, I may have missed it....but I learned today that David Sanborn covers Man from Mars on his new CD, Timegain. A good cover year for Joni. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:59:39 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: The Magdalene Sisters c> > Has anyone else seen this film or the documentary on whicih it claims > to be based? > > CC I saw it last weekend with my friend Melanie. A very powerful film. Fine performances from all of the actors and very well-done all the way around. One of the American televsion news magazine programs also did a piece on the laundries that I saw part of recently. It featured interviews with some of the women who had been incarcerated. They filmed a couple of them at the actual site of the laundry they had been imprisoned in. One of them wouldn't go any further than the front gate. She didn't want to get any closer. It's hard for me to comprehend the whole system and way of thinking that produced these hell-holes. There is so much that is screwed up about it and where do you lay the blame for it? With the Catholic Church? The Irish government? The families of these poor unfortunate women? The local church officials? Melanie has lived in Ireland and she says it's all of the above and more. One thing that struck me was that, like most of recorded history, it was the women who were victimized; the women who were accused; the women who were sullied and had to be 'cleansed'. It seems to me that when a woman gets pregnant or is raped or is considered sexually provocative that there is a man or men involved in these particular 'sins' as well. Where were the work houses for the men who conceived those children or committed the rape or lusted after some poor girl who had the bad fortune to be born with physical attributes that made her sexually desirable? But then the church is a patriarchy and part of the religion is founded on the principle of 'original sin' as committed by Eve in the Garden. And women have been paying for it ever since. That doesn't make it reasonable. That doesn't make it right. 'Wash my guilt of Eden Wash and balance me' Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:31:09 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: "help me" in starbucks SIQUOMB, isn't she? I heard "Help Me" in the local Starbucks tonight -- or should I say *one* of the local Starbucks -- and it sounded fresh as a proverbial daisy. It played right after "You Were Always on My Mind" by Willie Nelson, during which I was dry-heaving. I was thinking about how odd it was that a song I once liked okay sounded so unbearably sappy and then, as if to illustrate Joni's superiority, God made "HM" the next song. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 23:08:04 EDT From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: "help me" in starbucks Had to put in my two cents here, being a coffee freak and all! I've been working on a book the last month or so, in a lull in my freelance writing gigs here in New York, and my routine is to hit the Starbucks on my corner around 9 every morning, which I've done with reguarity. One of the bright spots is the incredible amount of Joni they play-- Help Me, Amelia, Coyote are on regular rotation, its like clockwork! I have tons of Joni on my laptop's iTunes, of course, but its great to hear the goddess filling up the big cafe space. Gotta say it's made for some very productive and enjoyable mornings this summer! All the best to everyone... Mitch ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:19:00 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: The Inside Story Of Joni Mitchell > Amazon says that this book (another one by Stacy Luftig) is coming > out this month... > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0825672856/qid=1061482923/sr=1-6 > /ref=sr_1_6/104-9140060-4554367?v=glance&s=books > > Maybe it's going to tell us who all of these songs are about! ;~) > > Bob > > NP: Ralph Towner/Gary Burton, "Some Other Time" > DID YOU SEE THIS???? Look at all the 80's shit! OMG http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0825639077/ref=pd_sbs_b_5/104- 6865042-4487963?v=glance&s=books Paz Artist PA Track Album/Source Time Options Joni Mitchell Cool Water Chalk Mark in a Rain Storm 5:26 Joni Mitchell Night Ride Home Night Ride Home 3:21 Joni Mitchell Come in from the Cold Night Ride Home 7:31 Joni Mitchell The Beat of Black Wings Chalk Mark in a Rain Storm 5:25 Joni Mitchell My Secret Place Chalk Mark in a Rain Storm 5:03 Joni Mitchell Dancin' Clown Chalk Mark in a Rain Storm 3:53 Joni Mitchell You Dream Flat Tires Wild Things Run Fast 2:53 Joni Mitchell Big Yellow Taxi Ladies of the Canyon 2:15 Joni Mitchell Chinese Cafe/Unchained Melody Wild Things Run Fast 5:20 Joni Mitchell Wild Things Run Fast Wild Things Run Fast 2:16 To get th ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 23:45:57 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: The Inside Story Of Joni Mitchell I'm sure you all know to avoid this particular useless piece of crap, as Neil Young would say: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1860743110/qid=1061523634/sr=1 - -2/ref=sr_1_2/002-2791500-7829662?v=glance&s=books I'm addicted to rock & roll bioographies, but there are few good ones. However, none rises to the depths of Mr. HInton's cobbling together of news stories in an act of near plagiarism from mostly unreliable sources. Yuck! > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > Michael Paz > Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 1:19 AM > To: SCJoniGuy@aol.com; Joni Digest > Subject: Re: The Inside Story Of Joni Mitchell > > > > Amazon says that this book (another one by Stacy Luftig) is coming > > out this month... > > > > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0825672856/qid=10614 > 82923/sr=1-6 > > /ref=sr_1_6/104-9140060-4554367?v=glance&s=books > > > > Maybe it's going to tell us who all of these songs are about! ;~) > > > > Bob > > > > NP: Ralph Towner/Gary Burton, "Some Other Time" > > > > > DID YOU SEE THIS???? Look at all the 80's shit! OMG > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0825639077/ref=pd_sb s_b_5/104- 6865042-4487963?v=glance&s=books Paz Artist PA Track Album/Source Time Options Joni Mitchell Cool Water Chalk Mark in a Rain Storm 5:26 Joni Mitchell Night Ride Home Night Ride Home 3:21 Joni Mitchell Come in from the Cold Night Ride Home 7:31 Joni Mitchell The Beat of Black Wings Chalk Mark in a Rain Storm 5:25 Joni Mitchell My Secret Place Chalk Mark in a Rain Storm 5:03 Joni Mitchell Dancin' Clown Chalk Mark in a Rain Storm 3:53 Joni Mitchell You Dream Flat Tires Wild Things Run Fast 2:53 Joni Mitchell Big Yellow Taxi Ladies of the Canyon 2:15 Joni Mitchell Chinese Cafe/Unchained Melody Wild Things Run Fast 5:20 Joni Mitchell Wild Things Run Fast Wild Things Run Fast 2:16 To get th ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 03:46:44 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: Re: The Magdalene Sisters Mark, I think you are so on target with your comments on "original" sin. And your quote from "Don't Interrupt The Sorrow" perfectly encapsulates the issue. The concept of "original" sin has damned women for the entire Christian era. The most recent and heinous example of this unfortunate double standard was exhibited by our President, William Jefferson Clinton who dishonored every woman who supported or donated to his campaign when he wagged his finger, "I did not have relations with that... woman...Miss Lewinsky." That...Eve. People might argue that his presidency offered many good opportunities for women but his personal convictions on the issue became crystal clear at that exact moment. It made me wretch. I didn't think I'd ever have the opportunity to let that bubble up, thanks for giving me a venue. As far as what allows something like the Magdalene Laundries to propagate, the 20th century had so much social unrest and humanitarian disasters due to economic and idealogical perceptions (Germany in the 1930s, the US sending its sons and daughters to slaughter in Vietnam, through Kosovo to Liberia and so many, many more) and the inability of some nations to separate Church from State (in this case: Ireland) which is the single most unalienable right the US can still strive to maintain (the myth of freedom of press notwithstanding). I'm pretty inarticulate when it comes to politics (I'll defer to Kakki!), but sometimes stuff does get to me and hopefully I remember enough to use my vote effectively. CC "Breathtaking ignorance adding insult to injury." -- JM >From: "Mark or Travis" >To: ,"c Karma" >Subject: Re: The Magdalene Sisters Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:59:39 -0700 > >c> > > Has anyone else seen this film or the documentary on whicih it >claims > > to be based? > > > > CC > >I saw it last weekend with my friend Melanie. A very powerful film. >Fine performances from all of the actors and very well-done all the >way around. One of the American televsion news magazine programs also >did a piece on the laundries that I saw part of recently. It featured >interviews with some of the women who had been incarcerated. They >filmed a couple of them at the actual site of the laundry they had >been imprisoned in. One of them wouldn't go any further than the >front gate. She didn't want to get any closer. > >It's hard for me to comprehend the whole system and way of thinking >that produced these hell-holes. There is so much that is screwed up >about it and where do you lay the blame for it? With the Catholic >Church? The Irish government? The families of these poor unfortunate >women? The local church officials? Melanie has lived in Ireland and >she says it's all of the above and more. One thing that struck me was >that, like most of recorded history, it was the women who were >victimized; the women who were accused; the women who were sullied >and had to be 'cleansed'. It seems to me that when a woman gets >pregnant or is raped or is considered sexually provocative that there >is a man or men involved in these particular 'sins' as well. Where >were the work houses for the men who conceived those children or >committed the rape or lusted after some poor girl who had the bad >fortune to be born with physical attributes that made her sexually >desirable? > >But then the church is a patriarchy and part of the religion is >founded on the principle of 'original sin' as committed by Eve in the >Garden. And women have been paying for it ever since. That doesn't >make it reasonable. That doesn't make it right. > >'Wash my guilt of Eden >Wash and balance me' > >Mark E. in Seattle > > > _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 23:46:50 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: chord changes In a message dated 8/21/03 6:15:25 AM, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: << I don't know if you'd class this as a "chord change" - probably not, in fact. But one of the reasons Two Grey Rooms is one of my favourite songs, is the harmonies and melody when she sings "with a view...." There's something really haunting about that one line, that seems to convey the whole emotion of the song with just those three words. She definitely IS SIQUOMB! Hell >> Hell, I'll have to listen to "Two Grey Rooms" when I get a chance and check it out. I'll get back to you on that one. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 23:46:55 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: chord changes In a message dated 8/21/03 9:23:37 AM, FMY FL writes: << In a message dated 8/21/2003 9:05:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: << The chords Joni uses are a big part I think of what makes her music so unique. >> I finished watching the Joni tribute in Toronto last night. When she sat down at the piano to play, she was talking (Joni TALK????) about when she wrote "Paprika Plains." She said she kept making up all these strange chords which sounded good, and THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS A WRONG CHORD! So you're right Victor! Jimmy >> Well, I must admit that statement seems profound and a bit idealistic. But I think anyone who has learned to play an instrument knows that there ARE some very bad chords. Sometimes they just don't go with the rest of what you're playing and often, they just sound terrible no matter how you try to use them... that's why they're called "discordant." Obviously, the final decision lies with the composer or the player but I think everyone would find some "bad chords" from time to time. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 01:02:34 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #413 This may have been mentioned earlier, I may have missed it....but I learned today that David Sanborn covers Man from Mars on his new CD, Timegain. A good cover year for Joni. Bryan That should have been "Timeagain." "Timegain" sounds like a bad sci-fi movie. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 02:04:04 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: August 22 1974: Joni performed at Temple University in Ambler, Pennsylvania, outside of Philadelphia. 1979: Joni performed the first of two nights at the Merriwether Post Pavillion in Columbia, Maryland. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=850 http://mppconcerts.com/home.asp - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 02:04:04 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: August 22 On August 22 the following articles were published: 1979: "Joni Mitchell's new disc includes Mingus' music" - Milwaukee Journal (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=849 1988: "Chalk Up Another One For Joni Mitchell" - US (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=392 1998: "Mitchell Unleashes 'Tiger' On Reprise" - Billboard (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=50 2000: "For Joni Mitchell, Artist, Singing Was Not Enough" - New York Times (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=540 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:27:49 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: joni/king/bach/ravel Larry Klein said that, but I agree with him and with what you are saying too. I listen to Carole as well as Joni so hopefully they will both rub off me. Steve - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wally Kairuz" To: "StephenToogood" ; "Joni List" Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 9:04 PM Subject: joni/king/bach/ravel > stephen, > you've put it so precisely! i think that a popular music education should be > based on the study of the music of carole king and that of joni mitchell. > with king you learn all the conventions of pop, even a measure of > "conventional inventiveness". after studying her music you can write pop > very proficiently. she's the "bach period" that everybody must go through > when studying composition. joni is the "ravel period", when one begins to > deconstruct and later integrate all the traditional music education one's > had. in joni's chord structures you find all those old friends but in > entirely new clothes. snippets of pop chord progressions will show up now > and then but in fragments and in totally unexpected contexts. get king and > you'll get the beatles, the standards, etc.. get joni and you'll get all > that with a new perspective plus the key to understanding all the rest. > (disclaimer: i am NOT comparing the musicianship of bach and ravel with > those of king and mitchell. i am drawing an analogy between bach's and > ravel's places in a musician's education and the roles of king and mitchell > in a pop musician's learning process.) > wally > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > > StephenToogood > > Enviado el: Jueves, 21 de Agosto de 2003 03:46 p.m. > > Para: Joni List > > Asunto: Re: Joni chord changes > > > > > > She's not > > hemmed in by it at all and she moves the chords just in > > the way that they feel right to her. She was the James > > Joyce of guitar tunings. > > Steve T ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 23:38:16 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: The Magdalene Sisters Chris wrote: >I'm pretty inarticulate when it comes to politics (I'll > defer to Kakki!), but sometimes stuff does get to me and hopefully I > remember enough to use my vote effectively. Ha! That's just my verbose Irish side! ;-) Your post is very articulate and well said and I appreciate hearing it coming from a man. You get it. Kakki ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #264 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)