From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #262 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, August 20 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 262 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni the wildflower ["hell" ] Re: Beat of Black Wings [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Beat of Black Wings ["Maggie McNally" ] Re: Beat of Black Wings [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni the wildflower [Catherine McKay ] Fwd: Delivery Status Notification (Failure) [Fauchja@aol.com] Beat of Black Wings -- Johnny Angel -- who recorded it first? ["Timothy S] Re: Beat of Black Wings -- Johnny Angel -- who recorded it first? ["Chris] vacation [Dflahm@aol.com] J [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Johnny Angel [Aerchak@aol.com] Joni In Fiction [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: J [Fauchja@aol.com] Joni mentions in "Women Who Rock" July/August 2003; 5-octave Brazilian ["] Re: Joni mentions in "Women Who Rock" July/August 2003; 5-octave Brazilian [SCJoniGuy@aol.] Re: vacation [Michael Paz ] Photos and reports from this year's Fest [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: Photos and reports from this year's Fest [AsharaJM@aol.com] Beat of Black Wings ["Janine Sherman" ] Re: Beat of Black Wings [Phyliss Ward ] Re: Beat of Black Wings ["Janine Sherman" ] Re: Photos and reports from this year's Fest [PassScribe@aol.com] Today's Library Links: August 20 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:04:25 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Joni the wildflower Bob wrote: > Anyway, today she threw out a quote from Bambi which had to do > with "Flower" (the skunk). Jan then mentioned a King short story > called "The Man Who Loved Flowers" about a serial killer, and I > mentioned Joni's use of flowers in her work, from her cover art > to her lyrics, and one that really stood out to me was this one > from Song For Sharon: > > The power of reason > And the flowers of deep feeling > Seem to serve me > Only to deceive me > > A great lyric on a couple of different levels, the rhyme coming > in the middle of the phrase as opposed to the end. How like Joni! > I mean, if you're going to use unconventional instrument tunings, > why not use unconventional lyric patterns as well? Plus, that whole > phrase "the flowers of deep feeling"...I think she's referring > to a bridal bouquet here, but if anyone has any other thoughts, > I'd love to hear them. I think Catherine already said something like this, but to me, the word "flowers" is used more as a verb, not a noun. In other words, the deep feelings "flower", ie. slowly bloom into life. This makes more sense (to me) than Joni saying her deep feelings are any particular variety of flower. And I love the game you play with your sisters, especially the Stephen King references! Can I play next time? Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 08:38:49 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings In a message dated 8/18/2003 5:37:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AzeemAK writes: > I always thought this was "Johnny Angel", a reference to > the old song - don't > know who first did it, Shelly Fabares had the hit with it - and fwiw, I've also associated that song with the "Charlie Angel" that Joni sings in the backing of 'Beat Of Black Wings'. This was actually Joni's second mention of Killer Kyle, the first being in "Cactus Tree". She's told the story a couple of times in regards to meeting him at Fort Bragg in Fayetteville NC in the sixties when she was one of the few performers to play there. Bob NP: Uncle Tupelo, "Outdone" (1989 demo) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 09:43:43 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: Beat of Black Wings I remember the original well..."Johnny Angel, how I love him, and I hope that someday he'll love me, and together we will see how lovely heaven can be..." I was in fifth grade, and there was this boy, you see, and other than my father, I'd have to say he was my first crush. Sigh. That's only one reason that I think this song is brilliant, but I have to admit that hearing the refrain of Johnny Angel in the song won my heart years ago when I first heard Beat of Black Wings. Best, Maggie Boston/Cambridge -----Original Message----- From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com [mailto:SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 8:39 AM To: AzeemAK@aol.com; steve@hatstand.org; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings In a message dated 8/18/2003 5:37:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AzeemAK writes: > I always thought this was "Johnny Angel", a reference to > the old song - don't > know who first did it, Shelly Fabares had the hit with it - and fwiw, I've also associated that song with the "Charlie Angel" that Joni sings in the backing of 'Beat Of Black Wings'. This was actually Joni's second mention of Killer Kyle, the first being in "Cactus Tree". She's told the story a couple of times in regards to meeting him at Fort Bragg in Fayetteville NC in the sixties when she was one of the few performers to play there. Bob NP: Uncle Tupelo, "Outdone" (1989 demo) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:01:19 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings In a message dated 8/19/2003 9:43:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mm@celebrityseries.org writes: > That's only one reason that I think this song is brilliant, but I have to admit that hearing the refrain of Johnny Angel in the song won my heart years ago when I first heard Beat > of Black Wings. Oh, you know what hooked me on it Maggie? That chord change... you know, the one that comes after each opening line, follows "Killer Kyle", "on the sidewalk with chalk", etc. That's a beautiful chord change, I'd love to know why it has the effect on me that it does. In a recent cover of the song that I got, the artists sings the change as opposed to playing it on an instrument. Pretty cool, because I felt like the chord change affected her the same way and she felt compelled to vocalize it. Bob NP: U2, "4th of July" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 11:00:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni the wildflower --- notaro@stpt.usf.edu wrote: > I'm not sure who > > really said this, but I've heard it attributed to > > Cher, among others: "Marriage is a fine > institution - > > but who wants to be in an institution?" > > One of Groucho Marx's more famous lines. > I was pretty darn sure it wasn't Cher, but a few people (what do they know?) told me it was. Maybe she was quoting Groucho or maybe she never said anything of the kind. I knew someone on the list would have the real info. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 11:25:41 EDT From: Fauchja@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Delivery Status Notification (Failure) j ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 15:40:57 +0000 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: Beat of Black Wings -- Johnny Angel -- who recorded it first? On Monday, 18 Aug 2003, AzeemAK@aol.com (Azeem), wrote (on Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings): In a message dated 18/08/2003 21:55:28 GMT Daylight Time, steve@hatstand.org writes: >I always thought it was "Charlie Angel" but have never been quite sure. >I think it is one of the strongest songs on CMIARS but that line doesn't >seem to fit in lime with the rest of the song, at least not for me. > > I always thought this was "Johnny Angel", a reference to the old song - don't know who first did it, but I remember the Carpenters' version. I thought it was an ironic counterpoint to such a grim song, a reminiscence of a soppy and sentimental love song, which includes a line about "Together we will see how lovely heaven can be." Clever stuff! I agree that it's a strong song, the best on the album, along with My Secret Place. I have to say I don't have the indulgence some have towards Dancing Clown - I think it's utter rubbish! Azeem in London Shelley [or Shelly] Fabares recorded "Johnny Angel" originally. Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 11:57:32 -0400 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings -- Johnny Angel -- who recorded it first? Well, the 'Johnny Angel' snippet kind of makes sense to me - it provides a sharp contrast to the soldier's current state - perhaps it's making reference to a time when he was in love, before the war, when life was full of promise. "Dancing Clown" gives me gas. - -Chris NP: New Erykah Badu single, "Danger (Block, Unblock)"...kickass! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy Spong" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 11:40 AM Subject: Beat of Black Wings -- Johnny Angel -- who recorded it first? > On Monday, 18 Aug 2003, AzeemAK@aol.com (Azeem), wrote (on Subject: Re: Beat > of Black Wings): > > In a message dated 18/08/2003 21:55:28 GMT Daylight Time, steve@hatstand.org > writes: > > >I always thought it was "Charlie Angel" but have never been quite sure. > >I think it is one of the strongest songs on CMIARS but that line doesn't > >seem to fit in lime with the rest of the song, at least not for me. > > > > > > I always thought this was "Johnny Angel", a reference to the old song - > don't > know who first did it, but I remember the Carpenters' version. I thought it > was an ironic counterpoint to such a grim song, a reminiscence of a soppy > and > sentimental love song, which includes a line about "Together we will see how > lovely heaven can be." > > Clever stuff! I agree that it's a strong song, the best on the album, along > with My Secret Place. I have to say I don't have the indulgence some have > towards Dancing Clown - I think it's utter rubbish! > > Azeem in London > > > Shelley [or Shelly] Fabares recorded "Johnny Angel" originally. > > > Tim Spong > Dover, Del., U.S.A. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 12:57:33 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: vacation We are going away 'til Sept. 10. Everyone take care & thrive. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 12:58:36 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: J In a message dated 8/19/2003 11:25:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Fauchja writes: > j And here we have what is quintessentially the ultimate post to this list, as succinct as a post can be. After all, if you just send a blank message, then it could be construed that it was some kind of mistake, and indeed no message is communicated at all. And you could say "Joni rules", or simply "Joni", but why not distill it down even more, down to the ONE KEY letter in Joni's name...surely you wouldn't use the "o" or the "i", and why on earth would you use the consonant in the MIDDLE of her name? No, the "J" is the perfect choice! It really says it all, and there's no way one can argue with it. J. Brilliant. Bob NP: Stevie Ray Vaughan, "May I Have A Talk With You" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 12:59:09 EDT From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Johnny Angel I think Johnny Angel may have been recorded by Shelly Faberes (pronounced faberay). I think she was on one of those family tv shows in the 60s also. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 14:42:07 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Joni In Fiction Hey Murphy, Tear yourself away from "Sweet Sixteen Take 2" long enough to catch this new book from Garrison Keillor with a Joni mention: http://www.nola.com/living/t-p/index.ssf?/base/living-1/10612692568460.xml Bob NP: Suzanne Vega, "Neighborhood Girls" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 14:52:22 EDT From: Fauchja@aol.com Subject: Re: J I was having computer problems, and that's what got sent. Thanks so much for rubbing my face in it. That's why I lurk on this list. Whenever I've tried to post, somebody tries to slam dunk. Thanks Bob! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:38:48 +0000 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: Joni mentions in "Women Who Rock" July/August 2003; 5-octave Brazilian Fellow jmdlers, The July/August issue of "Women Who Rock," which labels itself as a "Special Collector's Edition," has as its cover story "The Essentials: 50 Women who Rocked the World." No. 1 was Madonna, "A Pop Tart With Endless Flavor." No. 50 was Josie and the Pussycats, "Cartoon Rockers Divide Their Audience." No. 7 weas Joni Mitchell, "From Vulnerable Waif to Venerable Queen." Each of the 50 items lists followers -- for Joni, Morrissey, Tori Amos, Prince and Emmylou Harris, and Now Hear This! -- for Joni, "Blue" and "The Hissing of Summer Lawns." Elsewhere in the magazine is an "Icon-o-Quiz," and the subject is Joni Mitchell. Thanks to subscribing to and reading the JMDL, I got 9 of 10 right; the answer key pronounces, for those who score 8-10, "You're a woman of heart and mind." Others receiving ink in this issue -- not all within the 50, which may or may not be rank-ordered by impact (not merit) -- include fellow Canadians Molly Johnson ("smoky jazz," "sultry standards with a bluesy flair") and sister act Tegan and Sara (described here as "Canada's hottest rock 'n' roll sister act" and elsewhere as folk-rock); Mary Fahl, formerly of October Project, who may or may not be Canadian (it says she studied at McGill University, which is in Montreal) and "grew up listening to her brothers' Bob Dylan and Pink Floyd records and her sisters' Joni MItchell and Dusty Springfield albums"; Judy Collins, whose "This I Know" article includes "I don't like the word 'cover.' Songwriters write material, and people interpret that material, and that's what's supposed to happen. Great songs transcend their writers and move on to other artists, whether they're by Mozart or Barry Manilow"; Stacey Earle; and the late Nina Simone, who is the subject of a tribute occupying all of the last page, and also is No. 44 "Put a Spell on Us" in the 50 essentials. By the bye, in the past few weeks, I have read of a Brazilian female vocalist for whom a 5-octave vocal range is claimed. I don't recall the name, nor where I read it. Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced parental controls. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 15:43:25 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni mentions in "Women Who Rock" July/August 2003; 5-octave Brazilian In a message dated 8/19/2003 3:38:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tim_spong@hotmail.com writes: > Thanks to subscribing to > and reading the JMDL, I got 9 of 10 right; Well fess up Tim...which one did you miss? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:42:48 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: vacation Bon Voyage' mon ami. Freda has free tickets to NYC on Jet Blue and I am trying to talk her into picking me to go with her (altho that is doubtful) maybe dumb luck will prevail and I can come by and see you guys. Hope you have a wonderful vacation. Best Paz > We are going away 'til Sept. 10. Everyone take care & thrive. DAVID > LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:18:22 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Photos and reports from this year's Fest Hi, all I noticed some folks mentioning photos from this year's fest; are they available somewhere on the JMDL site for viewing yet or are they just being e-mailed around right now? Also, should we submit our "reports" on the fest to a particular site location or will our comments & reports that we posted on this list be used? Being new at all this, I was unsure. I tried to scan some of my photos from this year's fest so I could have them ready to submit but my scanner is making an awful racket and won't scan unless I turn it on and off several times... guess it's time to look for a new one, eh? Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:12:35 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Photos and reports from this year's Fest <> They are available at: http://www.hatstand.org/gallery/ and Chris can give you the info to upload your photos too, Kenny. <> No need to send them anywhere. Your comments to the list will be used. Beware!! :-) Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 20:11:17 -0400 From: "Janine Sherman" Subject: Beat of Black Wings My first "45 record" was Johnny Angel by Shelly Fabares. Wha a blast from the past. I think that is what Joni is chanting in BoBW. Although it does sound like Charlie Angel too. (Charlie/VC) Could she be layering the lighthearted " Johnny Angel, you're an angel to me" being played back on the mainland radio with the stark contrast of the travesty of the Vietnam war vet's story; same era different reality. Janine NP: Show Biz Kids, Steely Dan who I'll be seeing tomorrow! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 20:42:15 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings ok. I can't stand it and I'm coming out of lurkdom for this one. I know I heard some interview on one of the many tapes I've been lucky enough to acquire from this list on which Joni discusses this song. Joni describes how she met this guywho had just come back from vietnam. It was in the early days and he came backstage after one of her shows . I think it was in North Carolina... Ft Bragg. Someone help me here! I know you heard this interview! Anyway the guys says to her something like "How can you sing those songs about love? There ain't no more love in this world". I always thought the "Charlie Angel" or "Johnny Angel" was Joni's reference to those love songs. The dissonance she puts on it is haunting. THis also explains (to me) the line "I can't even hear the f----g music playing for the beat of black wings" Phyliss, back to lurkdom ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:58:10 -0400 From: "Janine Sherman" Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings Yes, that interview is on a video I have I think maybe the Come in from the Cold one????It has the music video for Beat of Black Wings on it, too, where Joni in blackface portrays Killer Kyle in fatigues... you don't know nothin' about love......sister I think he adds. It is one of the most (good word by de-lurked Phyllis) haunting things I have ever seen her do. Janine NP: Everything Must Go: Steely Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: Phyliss Ward To: Janine Sherman Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 11:42 PM Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings ok. I can't stand it and I'm coming out of lurkdom for this one. I know I heard some interview on one of the many tapes I've been lucky enough to acquire from this list on which Joni discusses this song. Joni describes how she met this guywho had just come back from vietnam. It was in the early days and he came backstage after one of her shows . I think it was in North Carolina... Ft Bragg. Someone help me here! I know you heard this interview! Anyway the guys says to her something like "How can you sing those songs about love? There ain't no more love in this world". I always thought the "Charlie Angel" or "Johnny Angel" was Joni's reference to those love songs. The dissonance she puts on it is haunting. THis also explains (to me) the line "I can't even hear the f----g music playing for the beat of black wings" Phyliss, back to lurkdom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:27:17 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Photos and reports from this year's Fest Thanks, Ashara, for the info on the photos. I started to check them out but it was so late and there are already so many, I'll have to spend more time on them another night. The few that I've already seen are great; almost like being there all over again! Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:04:33 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: August 20 On August 20 the following articles were published: 1979: "Joni Mitchell Fans Appalled by Audience" - Oklahoma City Times (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=846 1979: "Mitchell's jazz style in full bloom" - Minneapolis Star (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=825 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #262 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)