From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #233 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, July 23 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 233 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: That Cloying LOTC ["Kate Bennett" ] Joni mention ["hell" ] Royalties? ["Emily M. Griskavich" ] Re: Royalties? [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Subject: Re: "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? [dsk ] Heather Nova ["Stephen Toogood" ] astrology book ["MC LEA" ] [Fwd: Re: Re: That Cloying LOTC] [] Re: [Fwd: Re: Re: That Cloying LOTC] [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: [Fwd: Re: Re: That Cloying LOTC] [tantra-apso ] who's the dude. ["mack watson-bush" ] RE: who's the dude. ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: who's the dude. ["mack watson-bush" ] [none] ["Marja Tensen" ] Discovering Joni ["hell" ] Today in History: July 23 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: July 23 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 01:10:30 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: That Cloying LOTC sentimental being that i am, i have always loved lotc & will forever...it is still a sweet soundtrack for that time in my life that was just so new & limitless & amazing (& most likely a huge influence & inspiration for me to go live up in the canyon like trina/annie/estrella)... bobsart i love your box of chocolates analogy! lotc is the album i love to play on sunny mornings when i want a dose of the beauty & innocence of life...morning morgantown sets the mood so perfectly...as far as those last 3 'hits' go, i think they are amazing songs...the only reason folks may not think of them that way is because we have heard them so much that they've lost their magic... >Well, Jim, I can understand how you would feel LOTC is cloying in the sense that it is overly sentimental...And if LOTC satiated me with an overdose of chocolates, it was a delicious assortment of sweet and bittersweet, some filled with cherries, and others with nuts and caramels and coconut. Bobsart< kate www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:01:11 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Joni mention I'm not sure if this has been posted before, but I found an interesting interview on the David Crosby/CPR website (http://www.crosbycpr.com) today. It's with Dave Zimmer, who wrote the recently re-published biography of Crosby, Stills & Nash (which I'm currently reading). If you go to this page of the site (http://www.crosbycpr.com/content/features/interviews/20020121_zimmer/zimmer. html) and open the interview player, about 15 minutes in to Interview 1 you'll hear a pretty cool Joni mention. And if you listen a little longer (about 17-18 minutes in), you'll hear Zimmer's theory on where CSN sang together for the first time (also with some Joni content)! If you're a CSN fan, the interview is pretty interesting. I haven't got to the 2nd and 3rd yet (they're each about 1/2 an hour long) but they're next on the list! If I get time, I'll transcribe the Joni part for those that haven't got the time to listen! Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:29:40 -0500 From: "Emily M. Griskavich" Subject: Royalties? Dear Everyone, Last weekend, my dad bought me an old vinyl copy of "For the Roses" from an antique shop. I've already stolen his tape of "HOSL" and his album of "C&S," and I've got the London James & Joni PermaVine, but I've never paid for a Joni album. Does this make me a bad fan? She's not starving, but it's royalties that get a label to keep an artist in print and making new albums. Any thoughts? - -Emily NP: Pink Floyd, "Have a Cigar" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:43:59 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Royalties? In a message dated 7/22/2003 12:31:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Emily.Griskavich@loras.edu writes: > Does this make me a bad fan? She's not starving, but it's royalties that > get a label to keep an artist in print and making new albums. Any thoughts? > > I think it's fine in your case Emily. Getting your Dad's tapes and LPs isn't robbing Joni in my opinion, and you can't get the Joni/James BBC at the store. Still, I would never burn an obtainable Joni CD for a friend. We don't want Joni to starve :~) Jimmy NP: The entire Joni/James BBC concert...........on my XM radio. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:05:19 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Subject: Re: "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? Anita Gabrielle Tedder wrote: > > Strangely, I played the same festival as Lol last week-end in Hitchin, > Herts, UK. Lol was blowing in the church alone and then improvised at the > end with amazing Tibetan singer, Soname and tabla players. I don't know > if he was playing for free but he was real good. One thing I love about this list is the way details get added to almost every subject discussed -- people make their own little brush stroke and the picture keeps getting bigger and more colorful. So, there really is a Lol?! I wonder how he came to be considered the guy in "For Free", especially by a complainer-about-Joni like the Beefheart fan. Thanks for the info, Anita. And, since your name isn't familiar to me, if this is your first message to the list, welcome!!! Debra Shea, wondering also how Lol feels about his name now meaning "laughing out loud" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:45:28 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Royalties? In a message dated 7/22/2003 11:29:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, Emily.Griskavich@loras.edu writes: > Any thoughts? If you don't have Hejira yet, go to the store and buy it. Then Joni gets a couple of royalty pennies and you don't feel guilty anymore, plus you get one of the most literate and ultimately rewarding records ever made. Bob NP: Sting, "Love Is Stronger Than Justice" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:30:31 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: That Cloying LOTC > Of course, when she got finished with LOTC, there was nothing left in > her tank, so her next record was that bomb Blue This just cracked me up! Thanks for the laugh, Bobsart! (What is your real name??) LOTC must have been about the 10th Joni album I bought, at a used store in Tempe, Arizona around 1979. Until then I didn't realize that Joni wrote "Woodstock," and it startled me to learn that. (I knew the song from CSNY and from Joni's MOA performance, but wasn't familiar with its origin.) When I bought LOTC, I was 21 and had just moved into my first "alone" apartment, out in the desert in Goodyear, AZ. I had a console stereo (with a "man-made diamond" needle!) that a friend and I had literally pulled from a dumpster. (That needle was hell on vinyl, btw.) I remember many mornings in the concrete-floored living room, LOTC playing on the stereo, sunshine streaming through the cut crystal in the window, rainbows dancing on the walls ... to this day when I listen to the album, I'm transported there. It was a simpler time when I knew much less about the world and (like Kate) was wide-eyed at all the possibilities. I don't listen to LOTC very often, I guess because it's too ... well ... "cloying" is a good word, Jim. Perhaps, at the jaded age of 45, I find it all a bit too sweet to listen to regularly. Otoh, Bobsart has offered up food for thought (as it were) by describing some of the songs as bittersweet. "Lady called the blue boy love She took him home Made himself an idol yes So he turned to stone Like a pilgrim she travelled To place her flowers Before his granite grace And she prayed aloud for love To waken in his face In his face" Don't the words and melody just cause your heart to ache? Bittersweet, indeed. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:33:35 +0100 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Heather Nova I got a live CD by Heather Nova the other week called 'Wonderlust' in MVC. I had heard of her before but never any of her music but was swayed because it was only about #7 on the clear-out rack and the title struck me. It's got quite a rock feel to it and I like a few tracks but what really got my attention was what she sings at the end of the first track; 'Winterblue': "Blue Songs are like tattoos You know I've been to see before You know I've been to see before Blue Blue Blue" It comes out of nowhere and she sings it so well! Steve T ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:13:39 +0000 From: "MC LEA" Subject: astrology book Hi, MC here, coming out of lurkdom briefly to ask a question. I have not seen it mentioned here yet, although I do not get to read every post. On the WOHAM dvd, in one of the bonus tracks, Joni mentions a 'brilliant astrology book', but does not give the title. She goes on to say that [presumably according to this book] she was born in the week of depth (or death), on the day of the discoverer. Does anyone have any idea what this astrology book may be? BF, can you help? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:26:05 -0400 From: Subject: [Fwd: Re: Re: That Cloying LOTC] I listened to it over and over last night and I didn't gag once! Previously, it seemed dated and simplistic, "too groovy, baby, like 'wowwwww', ya know, man?" It's really funny how I sometimes go back and something feels completely different. Different = better I mean. For me, the stories on "DOG EAT DOG" and "WILD THINGS RUN FAST" in particular have really grown on me. How could I have overlooked WTRF? Chinese Cafe is up there with my favorite piano songs! now playing in my head: The critic, near the middle of JM:WoHaM saying, > People *REALLY* did feel that "This woman, by the light of this record player, is looking into my soul."> Yeah, what he said, Lama > > When I bought LOTC, I was 21 and had just moved into my first "alone" > > apartment, out in the desert in Goodyear, AZ. I had a console stereo > > (with a "man-made diamond" needle!) that a friend and I had literally > > pulled from a dumpster. (That needle was hell on vinyl, btw.) I > > remember many mornings in the concrete-floored living room, LOTC > > playing on the stereo, sunshine streaming through the cut crystal in > > the window, rainbows dancing on the walls ... to this day when I listen > > to the album, I'm transported there. It was a simpler time when I knew > > much less about the world and (like Kate) was wide-eyed at all the > > possibilities. > > > > I don't listen to LOTC very often, I guess because it's too ... > > well ... "cloying" is a good word, Jim. Perhaps, at the jaded age of > > 45, I find it all a bit too sweet to listen to regularly. Otoh, > > Bobsart has offered up food for thought (as it were) by describing some > > of the songs as bittersweet. > > > > "Lady called the blue boy love > > She took him home > > Made himself an idol yes > > So he turned to stone > > Like a pilgrim she travelled > > To place her flowers > > Before his granite grace > > And she prayed aloud for love > > To waken in his face > > In his face" > > > > Don't the words and melody just cause your heart to ache? > > > > Bittersweet, indeed. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:19:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Re: That Cloying LOTC] Okay - here's my theory - the songs on LOTC are not overly sweet or simplistic - it is the production and the vocal style Joni chose at the time that are overly sweet. And I confess I don't listen to it that often b/c I find the vocals a tad irritating, but the songs themselves...Conversation and Ladies of the Canyon in particular... are masterpieces.... little colorful snapshots of love and life. Morning Morgantown...Rainy Night House... Lori - I loved your description of the time in your life when you discovered it. I love those types of stories in general, so if anyone feels like sharing when and how they discovered a certain Joni album - the time you are transported to when you hear it again, jump on in. Jenny jlamadoo@fuse.net wrote: I listened to it over and over last night and I didn't gag once! Previously, it seemed dated and simplistic, "too groovy, baby, like 'wowwwww', ya know, man?" It's really funny how I sometimes go back and something feels completely different. Different = better I mean. For me, the stories on "DOG EAT DOG" and "WILD THINGS RUN FAST" in particular have really grown on me. How could I have overlooked WTRF? Chinese Cafe is up there with my favorite piano songs! now playing in my head: The critic, near the middle of JM:WoHaM saying, > People *REALLY* did feel that "This woman, by the light of this record player, is looking into my soul."> Yeah, what he said, Lama > > When I bought LOTC, I was 21 and had just moved into my first "alone" > > apartment, out in the desert in Goodyear, AZ. I had a console stereo > > (with a "man-made diamond" needle!) that a friend and I had literally > > pulled from a dumpster. (That needle was hell on vinyl, btw.) I > > remember many mornings in the concrete-floored living room, LOTC > > playing on the stereo, sunshine streaming through the cut crystal in > > the window, rainbows dancing on the walls ... to this day when I listen > > to the album, I'm transported there. It was a simpler time when I knew > > much less about the world and (like Kate) was wide-eyed at all the > > possibilities. > > > > I don't listen to LOTC very often, I guess because it's too ... > > well ... "cloying" is a good word, Jim. Perhaps, at the jaded age of > > 45, I find it all a bit too sweet to listen to regularly. Otoh, > > Bobsart has offered up food for thought (as it were) by describing some > > of the songs as bittersweet. > > > > "Lady called the blue boy love > > She took him home > > Made himself an idol yes > > So he turned to stone > > Like a pilgrim she travelled > > To place her flowers > > Before his granite grace > > And she prayed aloud for love > > To waken in his face > > In his face" > > > > Don't the words and melody just cause your heart to ache? > > > > Bittersweet, indeed. "Now I used to think that I was cool running around on fossil fuel, until I saw what I was doing was driving down the road to ruin..." JT Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:26:15 +1200 From: "Helen" Subject: Dave Zimmer interview Here's a transcription of the portion of Tony Bittick's interview with Dave Zimmer that mentions Joni. If you want to hear the whole thing, go to: http://www.crosbycpr.com/content/features/interviews/20020121_zimmer/zimmer.html This portion starts about 15 minutes into Interview 1.... Tony Bittick (TB): Henry (Diltz) must have been, I mean as long as he'd been around with the band and the guys, he must have been also a good navigator of sorts, I would assume? Dave Zimmer (DZ): Oh yeah, and he was an incredible source of home phone numbers. I think he gave me like John Sebastian's home phone number in upstate New York and John just opened up entirely. It was fantastic talking about the early Laurel Canyon days, and he was just a wonderful source for great crystal-clear, colourful memories of that time. It was the same with Joni Mitchell. He hooked me up with Joni through Henry Lewy, who was her long-time engineer, and one of my most favourite moments during the creation of the information for the book was interviewing Joni in this tiny little band room off an A&M sound stage. And it was just so great to have Joni's undivided attention for about twenty minutes. And she again, provided me with some of my favourite quotes in the book during that time frame. And she was so sweet and I was really, really honoured to have the chance to talk to her, and she couldn't have been nicer and really gave me, like I said, her full attention. And her mind went right back to those times when I was asking her questions about Laurel Canyon, Graham Nash, Woodstock and it was just a real privilege to have that happen for the book. TB: Well Dave, I hate to put you in this position, but I have to ask, based on what you've told me. How did the band come together - what's your opinion on how the band officially came together? There are many opinions, and Nash seems to have a memory, and Crosby seems to have a memory, and Stills seems to have a memory, and the book doesn't seem to commit to anything in particular. What do you think, having talked to everybody? DZ: Well, in terms of when they, I mean, how they came together is pretty well documented, in that while both David and Graham were in the Byrds, and then the Byrds went to England, you know David and Graham became fast friends and.... TB: But whose house was it? DZ: Whose house was it? TB: Whose.... that's the question, whose house was it?! DZ: OK, whose house was it where they sang for the first time in the summer of '68? I..... TB: I mean, after having the opportunity to talk to everybody, what's the Dave Zimmer prediction or final opinion? DZ: Well, I'm not convinced..... TB: Uh-oh! DZ: But I would say that it was Joni's. I just really, I mean....at the end of the day, even she was pretty clear on that... I mean, she remembered the kitchen, and all this, even though I know Cass Elliot was certainly the catalyst, it's just my... you know, it's my sense that after Joni's, everything was in a matter of perhaps even hours, not even days. As Nash is often want to say, he just made the rounds very quickly, but I think it was Joni's. There's an obvious "slip of the tongue" when he says both Graham and Nash were in the Byrds, but it's still interesting listening! Hell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:27:20 +0100 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Re: That Cloying LOTC] Jenny Goodspeed wrote: > so if anyone feels like sharing when and how they discovered a certain Joni album - the time you are transported to when you hear it again, jump on in. > > I was discussing this with my partner the other day. I mainly listen to music form the last few years. I miss a lot of the music I used to listen to but when i play them, it does transport me back to places i do not want to go back to. No matter how good a mood I am in, eventually the blackness of the times the music is from impinges on the present. i would certainly love to know of a technique to overcome this. I miss a lot of good music. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:39:11 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: who's the dude. Who's the dude that has a hit with 'big yellow taxi?' rather nice to ride down the avenue with the wind in the hair (well, some) and across the face and listen to the words of our friend joan singing her words of wisdom. Chuckled to myself and wondered how many of the kids today know what ddt is, or care. By the way, where is that gorgeous mags? mack np: barbra streisand-the essential ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:01:05 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: who's the dude. Are you talking about the Counting Crows version? The dude is Adam Duritz, their lead singer (and main lyricist). - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of mack watson-bush Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 6:39 PM To: joni Subject: who's the dude. Who's the dude that has a hit with 'big yellow taxi?' rather nice to ride down the avenue with the wind in the hair (well, some) and across the face and listen to the words of our friend joan singing her words of wisdom. Chuckled to myself and wondered how many of the kids today know what ddt is, or care. By the way, where is that gorgeous mags? mack np: barbra streisand-the essential ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:17:21 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: who's the dude. > Are you talking about the Counting Crows version? The dude is Adam Duritz, > their lead singer (and main lyricist). must be. thanks. don't know who is who these days and can't stand to listen to most of it for very long. he did an okay job with joni's tune. this tune keeps popping up on one of the stations i listen to. mack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:19:24 +0000 From: "Marja Tensen" Subject: [none] I keep getting your forwards and none of them are adressed specifically for me. Please make it stop, for I am confused. What Would Joni Do?- that's copyrighted by me, Marja Tensen, #24 Joni fan, so if you use it, give me credit. I'm kind of kidding but then maybe I'm not. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:16:55 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Discovering Joni Jenny wrote: > Lori - I loved your description of the time in your life when > you discovered it. I love those types of stories in general, > so if anyone feels like sharing when and how they discovered > a certain Joni album - the time you are transported to when > you hear it again, jump on in. I can't remember if I've ever told this story (I'm sure I must have!) but I'll tell it again! When I was seventeen (in 1983) I was allowed to take the train from Whangarei to Wellington (about 820 kms - 500 miles) with a friend, to stay with my older sister for two weeks. This was a big adventure, which started with Tricia and I "practising" smoking in the bathroom, before making our way to the dining car. There we encountered a guy in his 40's, who bought us vodka and taught us to play poker, which we did for the entire trip. We ended up making about $50 off him (not including drinks!), so I think he might have regretted his decision! Anyway, one night at my sister's, her then boyfriend was playing some music, and put on a "new" album by this woman I'd heard of, but always assumed was a folky kind of artist from the 60's. I was completely blown away, and requested it to be played just about every night after that! The album was WTRF, and I've been hooked ever since. I bought a copy as soon as I returned home, and over a period of a few years, gradually bought her entire back catalogue. Another strong memory is the room spray (it was called Moroccan Spice) that they used, and I also bought some of that (which I still have)! That smell is enough to take me back to that first time I heard Joni, and I can still remember the exact layout of the room, including where I was sitting when I first heard Chinese Cafe! WTRF remains one of my favourite Joni albums, simply because it was my "first" (and also because it's good)! On another related subject, about a week after that trip, I remember buying my vinyl copy of WTRF one night on a shopping expedition with my father (who died three years later). He asked what I'd bought, and I showed him, saying (probably with a scornful sigh) 'You won't have heard of her...." He replied that he HAD heard of Joni, and quite liked her! Pretty amazing, since I assumed his musical taste ran no further than Gilbert & Sullivan - I guess he wasn't so "uncool" after all! Come to think of it, my sister was responsible for my introduction to a lot of great artists, including CSN, JT, Bob Dylan, Janis Ian and Patti Smith! Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 02:34:18 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: July 23 1969: Joni was scheduled to perform with Tim Hardin at the Schaefer Music Festival in New York City's Central Park. The event was rained out and rescheduled for the next day. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=804 - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 02:34:18 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: July 23 On July 23 the following article was published: 2002: "There is no oxygen here" - CountingCrows.com (Appreciation) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=903 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #233 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)