From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #228 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, July 18 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 228 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Laura Nyro reference [Dave Cuneo ] MOJO Rates 'How to Buy...Joni Mithcell' ["Ross, Les" ] Re: MOJO Rates 'How to Buy...Joni Mithcell' [Chris Marshall ] Re: MOJO Rates 'How to Buy...Joni Mithcell' ["Stephen Toogood" ] Re: Covers King [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Covers King NOT MP3 ["Music Is Special" ] Re: 8 Songpoets Book [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: 8 Songpoets Book ["kakki" ] Re: Covers King [Michael Paz ] Today in History: July 18 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:28:46 -0400 From: Dave Cuneo Subject: Laura Nyro reference Ciao Joniphiles, I am not familiar with Laura Nyro's work but I know I have heard many of her songs done by other artists like the Fifth Dimension etc. FWIW, on Steely Dan's new album "Everything Must Go" they make a Laura reference, re: "stone soul picnic". Another poster here, Mark, pointed out that there are some Joni references on their new album as well. Ciao, dave. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:35:08 +0100 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: MOJO Rates 'How to Buy...Joni Mithcell' A regular feature, this magazine trawls the oevre of musicians and advises its readership how to 'get into' the work of it's featured performer. This month it's Joni. Counting down from ten to one, they recommend: 10 -Both Sides Now 9 - Wild Things Run Fast 8 - Song to a Seagull 7 - Miles of Aisles 6 - Hejira 5 - Blue 4 - Mingus 3 - Turbulent Indigo 2 - Court and Spark And pleasantly surprisingly.... 1 - The Hissing of Summer Lawns. The article gives a mini assessment of each with some howlers like 'Chelsea Morning' featuring on Miles of Aisles (not on any version I've got...). Due reference is given to contributing players like Jaco and Neil Young (gob iron) on Hejira and the persistence of Wayne Shorter pretty much everywhere. The performances on MOA apparently 'calls to mind Steely Dan at their best'. Comments anyone? It was good to read that Mingus made the cut. They write, "One of the boldest moves in a career that's full of them. Mingus sold well and actually made the US top twenty. This was some feat; the challenge of writing lyrics for the melodies of great jazz bassist and composer Charles Mingus was a spur to greater heights of impressionistic glory and confirmed Mitchell as one of the most idiosyncratic performers of the modern era. Having said that, it requires effort, but the rewards are immense; a record that opens up new vistas every time. Some listeners to this opus have even been moved to check out the Mingus catalogue. Praise indeed." Writing about HOSL, they note Prince's reported estimation of the work as his favourite all-time album. They go on to state that Harry's House featured in the Burt Reynolds move Sharkey's Machine. (why does the word 'ignominy' spring to mind. As always with lists like these, they warn about the 'one to avoid'. The hapless Dog Eat Dog is so singled. They write, "While she does not make bad albums, selections from Mitchell's canon are an acquried taste. Dog Eat Dog is a case in point; she seems out of kilter with herself as much as anything." Hardly damning. Les (I'm Going To Jonifest and to hell with the credit rating........and now folding quietly back into uber lurkdom.......sigh ~*) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:46:33 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: MOJO Rates 'How to Buy...Joni Mithcell' On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 04:35 PM, Ross, Les wrote: > Counting down from ten to one, they recommend: > 10 -Both Sides Now > 9 - Wild Things Run Fast > 8 - Song to a Seagull > 7 - Miles of Aisles > 6 - Hejira > 5 - Blue > 4 - Mingus > 3 - Turbulent Indigo > 2 - Court and Spark > > And pleasantly surprisingly.... > > 1 - The Hissing of Summer Lawns. While I'm a touch disappointed to see Hejira languishing down at no. 6, and Don Juan nowhere to be found (I mean, Wild Things placed above DJRD???? :) it is good to see Mingus and HOSL getting a higher profile. And depending upon the phase of the moon and a whole bunch of other factors, I could agree with HOSL's placing. That said, the weather'll change and I could be off onto something else. I do find it hard to name a number one, increasingly so as I grow to appreciate her work more, and as various songs get their hooks into me more immediately than my traditional faves. As such, most top ten lists that mags publish tend to leave me suspicious... but this one seems to have been thought about a bit more than usual... - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:59:58 +0100 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: RE: MOJO Rates 'How to Buy...Joni Mithcell'..and another thing Reading on from the same article I've come across something I heartily agree with It's in a sub box on the pages headed 'ALSO' which nominates Joni's Hits and Misses and Travelogue as compilations. They also describe Shadows and Light thus, " A starker in-performance set, Shadows And Light features jazzy arrangements and guitarist Pat Metheny, both overpowering the intimacy and cogency of her songs." I enjoy this record enormously for the musicianship and the event of these people all playing together as much as anything else. However I could never say with my hand on my heart that they represent the best versions of her work. IMHO, of course, and for the reasons stated in the article. Les (lurking now, really ~*) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:39:49 EDT From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: RE:Mandi Moore was It seems we're running away from the problem. Maybe it's something we can discuss further at the fest. Les was going to give the issue some thought - let's hear his conclusions! Lots of love, Lieve. -----Original Message----- From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com [SMTP:SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 4:18 PM To: NortheastJonifest@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] our lists (was Mandi Moore on "Today") In a message dated 7/17/2003 9:20:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, reckersl@ebrd.com writes: ______________________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ Just to clear this whole mess up Lieve I did push to send to both list in good faith, but do to my computer illiteracy I DID IT WRONG!@ Please forgive me as I am not an eletist, this coummnity has been a lifeline for me please don't dramatize this into critical anoligies to a large group of people who come in very good faith. Once again I'm very sorry I erroed in the excitement of the moment. For Joni's sake lets all kiss and make up:-))) See yu at Jonifest. Peace Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:55:05 +0100 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: MOJO Rates 'How to Buy...Joni Mithcell' Yes it is nice to see THOSL at number one but as a whole I think that top ten is a joke! Where is FTR? Why is BSN there? Well anyway I had to do a top 10 of my own! It wasn't all that easy. I'm sure a lot of you would not agree so it would be interesting to see other people's. I guess this is almost in order of what I play the most. 10-Don Juan's Reckless Daughter 9-Turbulent Indigo 8-Song To A Seagull 7-For The Roses 6-Ladies Of The Canyon 5-Court & Spark 4-Hejira 3-Miles Of Aisles 2-Blue 1-The Hissing Of Summer Lawns Also if I had to chose a best 80's album it would be DED. Oh no I've really said it now! Steve T - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross, Les" To: Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 4:35 PM Subject: MOJO Rates 'How to Buy...Joni Mithcell' > A regular feature, this magazine trawls the oevre of musicians and advises > its readership how to 'get into' the work of it's featured performer. This > month it's Joni. > > Counting down from ten to one, they recommend: > 10 -Both Sides Now > 9 - Wild Things Run Fast > 8 - Song to a Seagull > 7 - Miles of Aisles > 6 - Hejira > 5 - Blue > 4 - Mingus > 3 - Turbulent Indigo > 2 - Court and Spark > > And pleasantly surprisingly.... > > 1 - The Hissing of Summer Lawns. > > The article gives a mini assessment of each with some howlers like 'Chelsea > Morning' featuring on Miles of Aisles (not on any version I've got...). Due > reference is given to contributing players like Jaco and Neil Young (gob > iron) on Hejira and the persistence of Wayne Shorter pretty much everywhere. > > The performances on MOA apparently 'calls to mind Steely Dan at their best'. > Comments anyone? > > It was good to read that Mingus made the cut. They write, > > "One of the boldest moves in a career that's full of them. Mingus sold well > and actually made the US top twenty. This was some feat; the challenge of > writing lyrics for the melodies of great jazz bassist and composer Charles > Mingus was a spur to greater heights of impressionistic glory and confirmed > Mitchell as one of the most idiosyncratic performers of the modern era. > Having said that, it requires effort, but the rewards are immense; a record > that opens up new vistas every time. Some listeners to this opus have even > been moved to check out the Mingus catalogue. Praise indeed." > > Writing about HOSL, they note Prince's reported estimation of the work as > his favourite all-time album. They go on to state that Harry's House > featured in the Burt Reynolds move Sharkey's Machine. (why does the word > 'ignominy' spring to mind. > > As always with lists like these, they warn about the 'one to avoid'. The > hapless Dog Eat Dog is so singled. They write, > > "While she does not make bad albums, selections from Mitchell's canon are an > acquried taste. Dog Eat Dog is a case in point; she seems out of kilter with > herself as much as anything." > > Hardly damning. > > > Les (I'm Going To Jonifest and to hell with the credit rating........and now > folding quietly back into uber lurkdom.......sigh ~*) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:58:29 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: MOJO Rates 'How to Buy...Joni Mithcell' My list for the Joni virgin- 1 - Blue 2 - Court & Spark if listening to these two does not give you a hint as to Joni's genius, give up now 3 - Hejira 4 - Don Juan's Reckless Daughter more pure genius- the Jaco years 5 - Ladies of the Canyon solid songs that represent her early "soprano" years. Overall better than her first two, IMO 6 - Miles of Aisles mixing rock and jazz, her peak as a performer 7 - Wild Things Run Fast excellent album with more of a rock style 8- Mingus Joni does jazz. Does it well. 9 - Turbulent Indigo I don't find this one very satisfying, but the best of her "I'd rather smoke than sing" albums 10 - For The Roses Possibly her best album-at the end of the list because of it's similarity to Blue Further listening: Song To a Seagull/Clouds/Hissing of Summer Lawns (not on the list above due to it's similarity to C&S) /Shadows and Light Avoid: Travelogue Both Sides Now Dog Eat Dog Chalk Mark In a Rain Storm Lukewarm: Night Ride Home Taming the Tiger RR, critic of all expression "Ross, Les" wrote: > A regular feature, this magazine trawls the oevre of musicians and advises > its readership how to 'get into' the work of it's featured performer. This > month it's Joni. > > Counting down from ten to one, they recommend: > 10 -Both Sides Now > 9 - Wild Things Run Fast > 8 - Song to a Seagull > 7 - Miles of Aisles > 6 - Hejira > 5 - Blue > 4 - Mingus > 3 - Turbulent Indigo > 2 - Court and Spark > > And pleasantly surprisingly.... > > 1 - The Hissing of Summer Lawns. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:47:05 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: MOJO Rates 'How to Buy...Joni Mithcell' Interesting way of "rating" Joni, not by the best (in my opinion) but by the most accessible (which means what exactly? the least challenging? closest to pop? no yodeling? all of the above?). I don't know the answer to that, but these have been most successful in getting Joni-virgins to say, hey I like that! and want to hear more: 1. Night Ride Home 2. Court and Spark 3. Miles of Aisles 4. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter 5. For the Roses 6. Hissing of Summer Lawns 7. Song to a Seagull (if they've mentioned liking her way with lyrics) 8. Hejira (again, with the lyric thing) 9. Blue (great songs but stark sound has put some people off) 10. Wild Things Run Fast (if they're "music before lyrics" people, this would be higher on the list) I agree with Randy on the stay away from the overblown orchestra cds! and the overblown production cd! There's a reason that last one is always priced so low, which is unfortunate because some people who've heard her name start with that one and end their relationship right then and there. It takes a lot of convincing to get them willing to start it up again (such is the power of DED). Debra Shea, heading back to lurkerland for a while Randy Remote wrote: > > Avoid: > Travelogue > Both Sides Now > Dog Eat Dog > Chalk Mark In a Rain Storm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:44:41 +0100 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: MOJO Rates 'How to Buy...Joni Mithcell' Oh right a 'get into' Joni list (I should probably read emails properly before replying)! Mojo is still dumb, Mingus at number 4! Give the new listener a break! Okay my top ten list would differ slightly! It seems silly to have THOSL at # 1. Even though that it the first Joni studio album I got. It's a lot to take in! I would then say C&S, but then that gave off a dated impression when I lent it to someone as a first Joni album. Hejira did the job strangely enough - maybe 'cos you can't place it anywhere or at any time. Okay anyway I'm going with Blue as first album and the rest I guess is kind of like 'my best top 10' (with a slight shuffle here and there) because I think it shows most sides of Joni. Steve T NP: 'Sleep On Needles' (live) - Sondre Lerche - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Remote" To: "Ross, Les" ; Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 7:58 PM Subject: Re: MOJO Rates 'How to Buy...Joni Mithcell' > My list for the Joni virgin- > > 1 - Blue > 2 - Court & Spark > if listening to these two does not give you a hint as to Joni's > genius, give up now > 3 - Hejira > 4 - Don Juan's Reckless Daughter > more pure genius- the Jaco years > 5 - Ladies of the Canyon > solid songs that represent her early "soprano" years. Overall > better than her first two, IMO > 6 - Miles of Aisles > mixing rock and jazz, her peak as a performer > 7 - Wild Things Run Fast > excellent album with more of a rock style > 8- Mingus > Joni does jazz. Does it well. > 9 - Turbulent Indigo > I don't find this one very satisfying, but the best of her > "I'd rather smoke than sing" albums > 10 - For The Roses > Possibly her best album-at the end of the list because of it's > similarity to Blue > > Further listening: Song To a Seagull/Clouds/Hissing of Summer > Lawns (not on the list above due to it's similarity to C&S) > /Shadows and Light > > Avoid: > Travelogue > Both Sides Now > Dog Eat Dog > Chalk Mark In a Rain Storm > > Lukewarm: > Night Ride Home > Taming the Tiger > > RR, > critic of all expression > > > "Ross, Les" wrote: > > > A regular feature, this magazine trawls the oevre of musicians and advises > > its readership how to 'get into' the work of it's featured performer. This > > month it's Joni. > > > > Counting down from ten to one, they recommend: > > 10 -Both Sides Now > > 9 - Wild Things Run Fast > > 8 - Song to a Seagull > > 7 - Miles of Aisles > > 6 - Hejira > > 5 - Blue > > 4 - Mingus > > 3 - Turbulent Indigo > > 2 - Court and Spark > > > > And pleasantly surprisingly.... > > > > 1 - The Hissing of Summer Lawns. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:55:55 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: MOJO Rates 'How to Buy...Joni Mithcell' As Debra hints, the only real way to do "recommended" lists for the consumption of others, is to task them what their musical preferences are and go from there. Which kinda renders most top ten lists in magazines rather pointless when it comes to Joni. It also renders top *ten* lists pointless since, of course, Joni hasn't done ten of any particular genre. Then we've got the complexities of classifying albums... is C&S pop? Rock? Or is it just 70s? I could probably construct a better example but I'm a couple of beers into the evening, and there's more to come :) - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:30:16 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: MOJO Rates 'How to Buy...Joni Mithcell' Mojo said: 10 -Both Sides Now 9 - Wild Things Run Fast 8 - Song to a Seagull 7 - Miles of Aisles 6 - Hejira 5 - Blue 4 - Mingus 3 - Turbulent Indigo 2 - Court and Spark 1- Hissing of Summer Lawns I say this is a rum list and no mistake. All subjective, blah blah blah, but this seems to fall between at least two stools: if it's accessibility that's the main criterion, then Mingus clearly doesn't belong there, nor does Both Sides Now. If it's loosely based on perceived quality, then the presence of BSN, WTRF and Turbulent Indigo is inexplicable to me. And for a Joni virgin, I would always put Court and Spark at Number 1. Still, for all that lists are futile, they're also fun, so I'm not complaining. Azeem in London NP: David Bowie - Hours... (sounding somewhat better than I'd remembered) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:04:02 -0400 From: Doug Subject: Covers King Hey Bob, What would you think about converting all the covers to MP3 so they would fit on 4 CDs instead of 40. Now that most DVD players will play MP3 discs, some of us covers deprived unfortunates could afford the whole set. Also a nice leather bound book containing the background on each artist... well maybe a PDF file would do. 8-) Doug p.s. keep an eye on your mailbox ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:58:12 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Covers King In a message dated 7/17/2003 9:11:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dmeek@falls.igs.net writes: > Hey Bob, What would you think about converting all the covers to MP3 so > they would fit on 4 CDs instead of 40. > I suppose I could, depending on the interest. I've learned not to become too overzealous and go for it and then have 4-5 people respond. Bob NP: TLC, "Waterfalls" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:20:17 -0500 From: "Music Is Special" Subject: Re: Covers King NOT MP3 I for one would not be interested in MP3. MP3 is NOT loss-less compression that is, once compressed, the compressed versions will forever have worse audio quality than the audio discs with .WAV files. Compressing 40 disks to 4 implies massive compression and hence there will be fidelity differences. If one is going to compress, it should be via SHN or Bit-Torance. eric - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug" To: "JMDL" Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 8:04 PM Subject: Covers King > Hey Bob, What would you think about converting all the covers to MP3 so they would fit on 4 CDs instead of 40. > Now that most DVD players will play MP3 discs, some of us covers deprived unfortunates could afford the whole set. > Also a nice leather bound book containing the background on each artist... well maybe a PDF file would do. 8-) > > Doug > > p.s. keep an eye on your mailbox ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:20:28 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: 8 Songpoets Book In a message dated 7/17/03 3:00:36 AM, "mike pritchard" > Hey, Mike I'd be very interested in the book you describe. I've never heard of it but if anyone knows of a copy for sale, I'd probably buy it; biographies fascinate me and I ESPECIALLY love bios on musicians. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:31:22 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: 8 Songpoets Book Adding a me, too. I think I have heard of it but it was long ago. Would love to read more details, Mike. Kakki > Hey, Mike > I'd be very interested in the book you describe. I've never heard of it > but if anyone knows of a copy for sale, I'd probably buy it; biographies > fascinate me and I ESPECIALLY love bios on musicians. > > Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:48:27 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Covers King It would be a better wat of distribution and cheaper on everyone esp. you. We just need a site to post them as they become available. Paz > In a message dated 7/17/2003 9:11:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > dmeek@falls.igs.net writes: > >> Hey Bob, What would you think about converting all the covers to MP3 so >> they would fit on 4 CDs instead of 40. >> > > I suppose I could, depending on the interest. I've learned not to become too > overzealous and go for it and then have 4-5 people respond. > > Bob > > NP: TLC, "Waterfalls" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:12:31 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: July 18 1983: Joni performed at the Fingerlakes Performing Arts Center in Canadaigua, New York - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #228 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)