From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #220 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, July 10 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 220 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni on Laura excerpts ["kakki" ] joni, laura, rickie ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Joni vs. Laura and a rant about 'the industry' -LONG ["o" ] Re: Joni on Laura excerpts [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Joni vs. Laura and a rant about 'the industry' -LONG [Murphycopy@aol.] Re: Laura Nyro Bio by Michele Kort [Bob Shemkovitz ] RE: Joni on Laura excerpts ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Joni vs. Laura and a rant about 'the industry' -LONG [Murphycopy@aol.] Today in History: July 10 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 00:12:10 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Joni on Laura excerpts Thanks for excerpting the Joni/Laura detail, Heather. Some great and interesting quotes. I'm not sure I agree with all the takes but I sort of understand where they are coming from. I think it's hard to pin down why Laura did nor did not accomplish more or took the roads she did. I recall she had a lot of ups and downs (emotionally and with drug addiction) and spent the past several years before her passing battling cancer (but kept that battle fairly private). Not meaning to bring up private gossip on her but I think the professional critics who publicly analyze her career should take these factors into consideration. I feel that whatever she accomplished was more than enough and am glad for everything she brought to the world. Her album "Smile" was a disappointment to many and I recall even people on the list starting with that one and being turned off. It may not live up to some of the other masterpieces but I love it and it still surpasses work of some of her contemporaries. I have the sense that Joni really does revere Laura - how could she not? I also wonder if perhaps Joni's blond, ethereal poster-child-for-hippie-chick beauty gave her a little edge in the overall PR/popularity contest compared to Laura's wild, dark, avant-garde and earthy presence? Laura will get all her due in time - I'm sure of it. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 05:29:53 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: joni, laura, rickie i am so pleased to read all these opinions about laura. together with rickie lee and joni, laura nyro has been a highlight in my personal and artistic development. because my experience of art takes place at such a deep spiritual and unconscious level, i could never attempt a comparison between laura, joni and rickie that would add any significant value to what has already been said. i love the three of them and i am grateful for all the gifts that they have brought to my life. however, i feel that joni has been the one that has left the most permanent imprint on my existence. her effect has gone beyond mere enjoyment of her art or self-identification with her themes and narrations. while laura and rickie never fail to move me, joni has also TAUGHT me a lot about myself and the nature of life. i could never make that claim about either laura or rickie, however powerful their visions and language. i seldom spend a day without playing laura or rickie and yet weeks can pass without my listening to any of joni's music. i guess this means that joni brings me lessons i take longer to assimilate whereas laura and rickie can be wonderful though less demanding company. wally [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:22:19 +0100 From: "o" Subject: RE: Joni vs. Laura and a rant about 'the industry' -LONG A big thanks for that, Heather, it's great to know that there was a mutual repsect between them, unlike Joni and a lot of the other people she's compared to. As for Laura 'dropping out' of the music industry, I have to say, I'm a songwriter (I just started performing and recording - obviously nowhere near that level of inspiration) and I think people don't realise how hard it is. That quotation about talent being 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration is absolutely true - there's no set career path, you're at the mercy of your muse, and you have to push yourself to keep going onstage even if it's unnatural for you (as a writer it is - you want to observe not BE observed!). If you're not hardened it's a tough career path to follow, you have to have a hell of a lot of self-belief to keep on doing it. I get the sense that Laura wasn't that tough a person, like when she played to record company bosses to get a deal she had all the lights switched off, and of course she was convinced she'd been booed off the stage at the Monteray folk festival, which the video proved hadn't happened. So I don't see it as that strange that she stopped. You could say, conversely, that it was the stronger thing to do - everyone was telling her she was going to be hugely rich and famous, the voice of a generation, and she just said "not for me". I think that takes tremendous courage and a lack of ego. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:52:33 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Judee Sill (SJC) Owen wrote: > I also just started looking into the music of Judee Sill - anyone heard of > her? She was on Reprise in the 70s, only did two albums, had a very hard > knock life by the sound of it (she's like a female Nick Drake in that > sense), but her music and lyrics are outstanding from what I've heard. I agree, Owen - both desert island discs for me. I first heard Judee Sill on a UK TV show (Old Grey Whistle Test) back in the early 70s - and went straight out the next day and bought her debut album. I spent many years looking for her follow up album 'Heart Food' before finding a scratchy vinyl copy in a second-hand shop in London - at the time I didn't have a turntable so went straight to a shop next door and bought one! and have since burnt both albums (scratches and all) onto a CD. English music journalist/author Peter Doggett wrote this in Uncut Magazine recently (see http://www.kneeling.co.uk/pages/jsill/jsillarticle.asp) "She looked like the typical early Seventies singer- songwriter, a flaxen-haired Asylum labelmate to Joni Mitchell. She left two albums of flawless, enigmatic songs, filled with imagery worthy of William Blake, and harmonies that sounded like a collaboration between Brian Wilson and Bach." I met Peter Doggett at the launch party for Karen O'Brien's Joni biography a while back and he told me he was writing the liner notes for CD reissues of Judee's two albums (apparently due very soon on Rhino Handmade). Back in the 70s the UK's Record Mirror predicted "She'll be as big as Joni Mitchell with no sweat." Yesterday I found this on the net - Elvis Costello picks music for every hour of the day - Vanity Fair, 2002-11-01 http://www.elviscostello.info/articles/t-z/vanity_fair.021101a.html 11 A.M...."This is also the occasion when you may seek out a lost gem like Judee Sill's "Jesus Was A Cross Maker" (Asylum) or "The Bells" from Gonna Take A Miracle (Columbia), performed by Laura Nyro and Labelle." > 11 P.M. The day is almost done. Now there is a choice between words and another form of eloquence. Joni Mitchell's Blue (Reprise) sounds better than ever at this hour. All of today's confessional writers need to spend a year of pre-midnight hours with this record before sharing their pain with us." And this, from XTC Andy Partridge's desert island discs http://space.tin.it/io/pdimodic/edic_art9.htm Judee Sill (Asylum, 1971) Heart Food (Asylum, 1973) ".....I have to say this has been very influential on my writing. The way chords are structured make her a sort of female voice version of Johann Sebastian Bach. Some of the melodies have an incredible variety of sounds, "The Kiss" is possibly the most beautiful song ever written, "The Lamb Ran away with the Crown", many titles have a biblical theme. Imagine Brian Wilson with a female touch. Unfortunately she had a messy life because of drugs, I think she died in the early eighties. These records are phenomenally good." and this, by producer Gus Dudgeon http://www.kneeling.co.uk/pages/jsill/gus.asp "Many years later, I was one of the judges at the Yamaha Music Festival in Japan, and after the show, myself and the other judges were sitting around chugging some drinks, when someone asked what would be the one album we each individually would take to a desert island. When it came to my turn, I unhesitatingly nominated Judee's first album, having already said that no-one in the group would ever have heard of her. Amazingly, a well-respected and successful publisher, one of the judges, said....." I knew her well. I published her songs!!" I couldn't believe it." Best to all PaulC (savoring each word like a raspberry!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:01:01 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on Laura excerpts In a message dated 09/07/2003 08:10:08 GMT Daylight Time, kakkib@vzavenue.net writes: << I also wonder if perhaps Joni's blond, ethereal poster-child-for-hippie-chick beauty gave her a little edge in the overall PR/popularity contest compared to Laura's wild, dark, avant-garde and earthy presence? >> Well, interesting that you brought that up Kakki, as we're all right-on people here and don't judge people by looks (yeah, right!) - but of course they do make a difference, for better or worse. I think it's somehow fitting that, in keeping with the myriad other contrasts between them and their art, their looks were so different too. Personally I think they're both very beautiful women, yet in totally different ways. I'd even hazard a guess that if you showed a complete novice pictures of Joni and Laura in their 20s and then played them "I Had A King" and "Eli's Coming", they'd somehow guess who made which record! Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:16:34 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni vs. Laura and a rant about 'the industry' -LONG Kate writes: << if joni was inspired to write again, that would be a GREAT song... >> She already has written about this subject, Kate -- "Song for Sharon." Take care, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:10:02 -0400 From: Bob Shemkovitz Subject: Re: Laura Nyro Bio by Michele Kort Gary Zack wrote: > I was told at a Borders that it was already out of print! Unbelievable > if true! You can always try eBay for a copy if you really want one. Apparently the hardcover edition has gone out of print, but the paperback version is in print and available. If you still want the hardcover, there is an excellent mail order source at HamiltonBook.com: http://www.hamiltonbook.com/hamiltonbook.filereader?3ad336c003a24eb0271fd820 5b7306ae+EN/catalogs They are selling the remaindered hardcover for 3.95 plus shipping. I have been buying from this dealer for years and have always got good service. Bob in CT ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:36:56 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Joni vs. Laura and a rant about 'the industry' -LONG yes, that is true but that song is more about a young girl's choice & so its kind of light (imo)..this one i'm suggesting is from a mature woman's perspective...looking back on both of those paths...its a bit deeper...it could be such a joyful song because she was rewarded, in the end, with the path that she did not choose (the return of her daughter & her grandkids)...or maybe that's another song...perhaps she's too close to it or maybe this time she's choosing to live the life instead of writing about it...why am i second guessing joni? i guess i just want her to keep writing! ps bob , i loved your post on katharine hepburn in nyc...i just read a wonderful tribute to her in time mag ...she does remind me so much of joni in many ways...(was she a taurus, the opposite of scorpio?) >She already has written about this subject, Kate -- "Song for Sharon." Take care, --Bob< kate www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:52:19 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Joni on Laura excerpts this somehow brings to mind the one and only time i met laura. it was at the ironhorse music hall in northampton massachusetts, april 10th, 1994. it was a solo performance. she sang her heart out but you could tell she wasn't feeling well and i thought she was rather shy while performing. the guy that was in charge of the sound board seemed really close to her. i'm not sure who it was though it looked like charlie calello. i had bought my well worn christmas and the beads of sweat lp with me hoping and praying i could get an autograph. i asked the gentleman if it was possible to see her after the show. he said that she got run down real easy so he couldn't promise me anything - all the while he saw what i was carrying. well, after the show i went down to the performers 'hang out' room and sure enough. there was laura. sitting behind a small table all by herself in this room. i started to feel sad for some reason but i smiled and said that i had been listening and moved by her music since in highschool and was wondering if you would sign this and i placed the christmas and the beads of sweat lp in front of her. she exclaimed "oh my, look at this." she looked at both sides and signed the front "laura" with a heart next to it. i told her i knew she was exhausted so i'll let her be and thanked her soooo much for signing my lp. she smiled. an evening i'll never forget .... me and laura and no one else. i guess that is what made me sad. no one else was there to see her. heather -----Original Message----- From: AzeemAK@aol.com [mailto:AzeemAK@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 7:01 AM To: kakkib@vzavenue.net; chiaroscuro@snet.net; owen.duff@ntlworld.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Joni on Laura excerpts In a message dated 09/07/2003 08:10:08 GMT Daylight Time, kakkib@vzavenue.net writes: << I also wonder if perhaps Joni's blond, ethereal poster-child-for-hippie-chick beauty gave her a little edge in the overall PR/popularity contest compared to Laura's wild, dark, avant-garde and earthy presence? >> Well, interesting that you brought that up Kakki, as we're all right-on people here and don't judge people by looks (yeah, right!) - but of course they do make a difference, for better or worse. I think it's somehow fitting that, in keeping with the myriad other contrasts between them and their art, their looks were so different too. Personally I think they're both very beautiful women, yet in totally different ways. I'd even hazard a guess that if you showed a complete novice pictures of Joni and Laura in their 20s and then played them "I Had A King" and "Eli's Coming", they'd somehow guess who made which record! Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:10:06 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Joni on Laura excerpts heather, this story brought tears to my eyes. wally - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Heather Enviado el: Miercoles, 09 de Julio de 2003 10:52 p.m. Para: AzeemAK@aol.com; kakkib@vzavenue.net; owen.duff@ntlworld.com CC: joni@smoe.org Asunto: RE: Joni on Laura excerpts an evening i'll never forget .... me and laura and no one else. i guess that is what made me sad. no one else was there to see her. heather ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:11:55 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni vs. Laura and a rant about 'the industry' -LONG About Song for Sharon, Kate writes: << yes, that is true but that song is more about a young girl's choice & so its kind of light (imo)..this one i'm suggesting is from a mature woman's perspective... >> I agree, Kate, and wish she would write ANYTHING about ANYTHING from her current perspective. So much talent and accumulated wisdom going to waste . . . And about Hepburn, Kate asks: << (was she a taurus, the opposite of scorpio?) >> Probably a Taurus like me, since we both have so much in common. (For example, we both stunned the world by wearing trousers!) XO, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 02:42:16 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: July 10 1983: Joni performed at the Stanley Theater in Pittsburgh - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #220 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)