From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #208 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, June 29 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 208 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re:from"Down Under" [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: the art of songwriting, via Britney Spears [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: bloody funny [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Today's Library Links: June 28 --- Joni's "Voices" [Catherine McKay <] Jonifest 2003 Merchandise [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] Sheet Music Needed [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] Re: the art of songwriting, via Britney Spears [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Today in History: June 29 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: June 29 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 08:14:56 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re:from"Down Under" Hey, Ash I really enjoyed reading of your "re"discovery of Joni; welcome to the "club." Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 08:26:43 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: the art of songwriting, via Britney Spears > "Anyone can write a boring artistic song. Pop music is the hardest shit > to write." > - - Britney Spears (Rolling Stone, page 18, July 12th, 2003 to which SCJoniGuy@aol.com commented: > if writing a classic pop > song - like Buddy Holly &John Lennon &Paul McCartney &Carole King did > repeatedly - was easy, then EVRYONE would do it. This little topic woke me up this morning. I too chuckled at Britney's quote - - I certainly hope it was not the pithiest entry in her interview, which I am most unlikely to read. However, this touches on issues of art, of categorizing it, and of crossing boundaries. For example, Joni's lack of success in writing hits, while notable, was mixed in a way. I have listened a few times to her Hits CD, and I think it would fare pretty well with many of those whose palette is only tickled by pop music - let's say, Lite FM like 106.7 here in NY/NJ. More so, I would guess, than Bob Dylan's greatest hits, which I suspect did better individually and perhaps in their compilation on the charts (am I wrong about this ?) Then, of course there is the issue of inclination - were Joni and Dylan more interested in writing songs that would appeal to the masses, or to the subset of the masses who fancied themselves intelligentsia, or artists, or......the elite upper end, whatever that is ? Or were they simply more focused on the art itself, and let the breadth/intensity of appeal take care of itself. Well, that is Joni's line, and it has the ring of truth to it to me. Of course all of this is part of a continuum - there are no bright line breakpoints. Even in cases like Carole King's, where it was her job to crank out the songs, the quality of the work reveals the composer's pride in her art (not just her craft). Of Lennon and McCartney, that odd confluence of spirit that produced a whole so much greater than the sum of the parts was at work, too. But I would not classify their work as exclusively or even predominately "pop", although their success in that arena was more or less unrivaled. And much of their pop stuff was pretty artistic, in its own way. Particularly as their work progressed, the art was almost invariably part of what made them special. Their early, pop-centered popularity allowed the full body of that later art greater exposure than, let us say, Joni's art received. Now I was BeatleManiac (and I guess once a BM, always a BM - no wisecracks, please), but I rarely listen to their "shit" anymore, such is the power of my addiction to Joni's work. Still, their later work was replete with arty stuff - not jazzy, per se, but artistic as compared to typically "pop" - radio airplay - stuff. Oh, on the "short, short list" of Bob Muller's classic pop songwriters, I felt struck by the absence of Elton John. I realize that he was dependent upon others for the lyrics (mostly Bernie Taupin, no ?), but anyone who had as many hits as he did and 8 number one pop albums in a row sort of deserves a place on every such list, IMO. Also, with Elton, more than with the Beatles, Holly or King, I think we have the epitome of the pop music manufacturing factory. How he did/does that amazes me (and of course he had success in his branching out to the animated movie, etc. as well). That does not mean he was not trying for artistic achievement as well - nor does it mean that I think he was unsuccessful in that area. Also, I like how his spirit seems to have evolved - I get the sense that he has become a pretty darn good human being. But I am not a "fan" of his per se - my greatest admiration seems to be reserved for those who do it all - write the music and the lyrics as well as perform. It is that emotional/spiritual connection between the emotion conveyed and the ownership of said emotion that takes me over the top. I guess the bottom line is that - broadly speaking - overall quality (or some other such elusive term to coin and/or define ) is what separates - for me - the fine art from the mediocre (or lesser) art. If it's fine art, it's by definition hard to do, and therefore rare. The converse is, as usual, not necessarily true (that is, if it's hard to do, and therefore rare, it is not necessarily fine art). Out of gas, thank goodness. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 08:29:56 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: bloody funny In a message dated 6/28/03 3:01:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > So after this....I surfed the net for anything on Joni/Joan and found you > lot!! > > I hope this is not to boring??? > > Ash Nice find, Ash - welcome !! Nice post, too - the opposite of boring. I like the one about Joni ripping off Big Yellow Taxi. :-) Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 09:09:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Today's Library Links: June 28 --- Joni's "Voices" The question has come up here before about whether the "Voices" exhibition catalogue from the Mendel show in Saskatoon was available. You can still buy this from the Mendel for $37.50 Canadian, which is a better deal when you convert to USD. There's a link to the Mendel through the article Les posted; or here's a direct one: http://www.mendel.ca/shop/ --- ljirvin@jmdl.com wrote: > On June 28 the following items were published: > > 2000: "Saskatoon gallery hosts Joni Mitchell > retrospective" - CBC Entertainment > (News Item) > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=530 ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 11:36:52 EDT From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Jonifest 2003 Merchandise Once again, the AMAZING Mr. Les Irvin has come through for me with flying colors! Claud and I have been listening to your requests, and have been working hard to have available several items with the Jonifest 2003 logo on them. They are: a mug, mousepad, t-shirt and sticker. You can order them NOW by going to: JoniFest General Store ATTENTION: Please note that if you are coming to fest, all you have to do is to check that off on the order form and you will NOT pay shipping. If you are having the merchandise sent, please read the shipping prices carefully. But HURRY!!!!!!!!! All orders must be placed and paid for by JULY 10th!!!!!!! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 16:45:17 EDT From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Sheet Music Needed Please forgive me for not including NJC in the subject line, but I wanted to reach as many people as possible. Does anyone have the sheet music to Judy Collins' song "The Fallow Way?" Please e-mail me off list if you do. Thanks!! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 17:10:24 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: the art of songwriting, via Britney Spears In a message dated 6/28/2003 8:28:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bobsart48@aol.com writes: > breadth/intensity of appeal take care of itself. Well, that is Joni's line, > and it has the ring of truth to it to me.> Yes, and I would agree with you...neither Dylan or Joni wrote with the top 40 in mind. When the zeitgeist intersected with where they happened to be at the time (Court & Spark in Joni's case as an example) they had chart success, albeit unintentionally. Even having said that, however, there seems to be a nagging pang of resentment from Joni that she wasn't more popular than she was. > felt struck by the absence of Elton John. > Well, obviously I didn't consider my list complete...but again Elton is in a bit of a different niche. He didn't compose 2-3 minute "pop" ditties, his songs were typically a tad more complex. "Crocodile Rock" & "Your Song" would certainly be exceptions, as pop as they come. And most of Elton's popularity came from his outlandish performances, and like Joni he was more of an "album" artist than a singles guy. It's always tricky to categorize music, but there's a definite line between popular music and pop music. Bob NP: The Jimmy Vann Band, "Both Sides Now" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 02:06:32 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: June 29 1983: Joni performed in Norman, Oklahoma - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 02:06:32 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: June 29 On June 29 the following item was published: 1971: "Joni Mitchell's Bid for Top Album" - Los Angeles Times (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=154 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #208 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)