From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #186 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, June 7 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 186 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Time to quit? [Chrys Jordan ] Re: Time to quit? [SoulQuest7@aol.com] Anita and Me (and Joni) [Gordon Mackie ] Re: Time to quit? [Aerchak@aol.com] Re: When is it time to quit? sjc [Aerchak@aol.com] Re: Time to quit? [Catherine McKay ] Re: When is it time to quit? sjc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Woman of Heart DVD [AsharaJM@aol.com] When is it time to quit? sjc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Jonifest 2003 Attendees [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] RE: When is it time to quit? sjc ["Maggie McNally" ] Come to Jonifest FREE raffle [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] older artists ["walterphil" ] When is it time to quit? sjc ["Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re-Listing Joni's Guitar on eBay ["paul@anglesnet.com" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #185 [StDoherty@aol.com] Re: When is it time to quit? sjc ["Lori Fye" ] Joni mention in WSJ ["Maggie McNally" ] Re: Time to quit? [AzeemAK@aol.com] RE: Time to quit? ["Robert Argento" ] lignininousstuff ["michael o'malley" ] Re: Time to quit? ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: When is it time to quit? sjc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Time to quit? ["Mark or Travis" ] Back To The Garden [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Back To The Garden [Little Bird ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #315 - money [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Today in History: June 7 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: June 7 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #315 - money ["Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Time to quit? I recently purchased BLUE, and my first impression is quite positive; that early period in Joni's music is mostly what I have. Unfortunately, and please don't throw stone @ me, I say this with regret and empathy, not with anger. One man's opinion here, but: it literally breaks my heart to hear how smoking has in effect destroyed Joni's extraordinary voice. She hung on there longer than she probably should have, and now her voice is a shadow of those old albums from SONG TO A SEAGULL ending with HEJIRA. I'm admittedly a new fan; is the club name Jimdle? I discovered her when she sang 'Goodbye Blue Skies' for Roger Waters' all-star re-enactment of THE WALL in the ruins of the newly fallen Berlin Wall. This was 1990, and Joni made the song, formerly a Waters/Gilmour duet, seem brand new: beautiful to the point of heart-break. She sounded great; I became a fan soon after (I first saw Roger's show in 1996) but TAMING THE TIGER hurt; a frail, painful shadow of what she once was. I smoke myself, and the fact that I never could sing too well is no excuse; I should quit myself; I may not and therefore do not cast stones or accuse. I just wish there were another way, and as Luther was supposed to have said: Here I stand, I can do no other. Have a Chelsea morning. the Tiger-boy Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 04:18:03 EDT From: SoulQuest7@aol.com Subject: Re: Time to quit? I think it's not just smoking, but aging in general that decreases your vocal range, flexibility, etc. However, I have been surprised how good Paul McCartney's voice has been on his recent tour at the age of 60, something which may be attributable to his not smoking (either cigs or pot) anymore or at least rarely. I think I heard or read somewhere that Joni liked smoking because it kept her voice low! While this might shock those of us who love her soprano flights on those early albums, it might make sense given her love of Billy Holiday. Having said all that, I was quite impressed with Joni's new version of BOTH SIDES NOW on the album of the same name. Aside from the amazing string arrangement, Joni still uses her decreased-capacity lung capacity in ways that are still moving, which only goes to show that while artistry may be enhanced by a wide vocal range, it's not necessarily imperative. =--==- om=== Nick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:04:51 +0100 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: Anita and Me (and Joni) Mark You provide us with an interesting post on different levels. Re Anita, I spose its the "Jazz on a Summers Day" performance that sticks out in my mind...the film of the Newport Jazz Festival (of '58 I think) . I thought she was absolutely stunning....she looks like a cross between Joni I (the teeth I spose) and Sophie Ellis Bextor (the eyes I spose.. sorry music fans ...its just a likeness thang). Her singing and timing were impeccable even though allegedly she was 'coked' out of her brain. Re Joni performing into old age, I would go. Just to be close to her presence 'cos even though she might be 'past it' musically, I think the spirit would be there no matter how old and decrepit she was. I would love to be in her company because her work intrigues me. Whether or not we would like each other who knows. And in some ways who cares. I kinda suspect , knowing her innermost feelings and some of her secrets, we'd get on well. Not hero worship talking here. Gordon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:16:48 EDT From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Re: Time to quit? There is so much more to Joni Mitchell than her voice. That is just one small piece of the pie. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:24:36 EDT From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Re: When is it time to quit? sjc i don't think we have to worry about Jont's financial position too much. My impression is that she is not hurting. House in Belair, Lexus, designer clothes. I am sure that if she ever decided to sell some of her paintings, they would bring in some pretty good money. She's sems to be doing ok and good for her! Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:03:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Time to quit? Chrys, you wouldn't be the first person to make this comment and I'm sure you won't be the last (LOL). What will likely happen now is that people will begin to argue whether it's the smoking that has "ruined" Joni's voice, (because some people think her voice is better now than ever, believe it or not), or whether it's something else, like the aging process, or maybe her post-polio syndrome or a multitude of other causes. In any case, I can't see how smoking could do anything but bad to the voice. After all, isn't cancer of the larynx caused by smoking? IF you've ever seen someone smoking through a trach tube, you'd give good thought to quitting (but it's addictive as hell, so you never know.) --- Chrys Jordan wrote: > I recently purchased BLUE, and my first impression > is quite positive; that early period in Joni's music > is mostly what I have. > > Unfortunately, and please don't throw stone @ me, I > say this with regret and empathy, not with anger. > One man's opinion here, but: it literally breaks my > heart to hear how smoking has in effect destroyed > Joni's extraordinary voice. She hung on there longer > than she probably should have, and now her voice is > a shadow of those old albums from SONG TO A SEAGULL > ending with HEJIRA. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:13:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: When is it time to quit? sjc I've always wondered how people could give up something they love so much or how they know when they're losing it. Some people do know and they quit and go into teaching or coaching. Others just keep on going. It must be hard to quit at all, much less when you're ahead. I wonder if Anita realizes how bad she sounds? Some people just become blind (or in this case, maybe tone-deaf) to it. Or maybe she has Alzheimer's or something - that's a possibiity. I read an article the other day about people with Alzheimer's doing art (painting) and how, after they've lost their ability to speak coherently, they can still paint very expressively. It was quite touching. I guess that doesn't apply to singing though, because singing requires remembering words. Yes, I would go to see Joni when she was past it (LOL, some people think she already is), especially if it was in a small venue - a club or something. However, I suspect she just wouldn't do it, nor does she need to. After all, she has her painting as well, so even if she gets Alzy's, she has something to do! --- Mark or Travis wrote:> > > >Unfortunately, my hunch was not a good one. I just > looked up Anita [O'Day}'s > date of birth on her web site. The woman is 83 > years old. The show > was prefaced by video footage from live performances > projected on a > large screen, some dating back to the 40s but mostly > from the early > 60s. These clips showed an animated and upbeat > Anita at her peak. > But last night she shuffled on stage, stood mostly > with her back to > the audience so she could look at music sheets on > the piano and still > couldn't get out about 2/3rds of the lyrics to the > songs she sang. > Her pitch was erratic and the notes she did hit she > had trouble > sustaining. During gaps she made feeble attempts to > scat or motioned > to the band to play over the muffed lyrics. The Bob > Kaye trio did the > best they could to support her, ably playing piano, > bass and drum, > giving her cues and trying to fill in wherever > possible. But > ultimately this ghost of a performance was painful > to watch. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 04:34:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Ed Beauchamp Subject: Joni in current Blender magazine Hello everyone, Check out the current June/July 2003 issue of Blender magazine for a couple of Joni mentions. In a review of the latest Michelle Branch album on page 132 is the memorable line "...Michelle Branch reverently mentions uncool folk heros Cat Stevens and Joni Mitchell." Uncool to the reviewer, perhaps, but it sounds like Michelle is wise beyond her years. Then on pages 158 & 159 are reveiws of every Joni album (along with a beautiful B&W picture of a young Joni). The reviews should be good for some discussion on this list - especially as DED is listed as "Great" with 3 stars. Let the debates begin! Ed __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:43:57 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Woman of Heart DVD In a message dated 6/4/2003 4:33:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, olszer@xlsecurity.com writes: > Also, there's an ebay vendor from Saskatoon (out of all places) selling a > 20 > min VHS of Joni, CSN, taped on Dick Cavett the day after Woodstock. The > "buy > now" is only $9.99. Is this show on the Joni trees? > Yep, available for blanks and postage right here in JMDL land. If anyone doesn't have the trees yet and wants them, please send an e-mail to me. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 08:52:46 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: When is it time to quit? sjc > Thanks for reading (if you've made it this far.) Thanks for your review, Mark. I'm sure that was tough to bear, witnessing a performance from someone who has deteriorated greatly. As it's been pointed out, Anita may very well be in dire straits financially as many artist, particularly women, have been abused and neglected in the business. This is certainly a reality that we boomers will have to face in the upcoming years; as the rockers & singers we've adored for 30-40 years turn the corner into their senior years and don't have the resources (or the sense) to hang it up. I saw Little Feat this week at The Handlebar, and they definitely still have it, they put on a great show. By the same token, The Doobie Brothers were in town about a month ago playing a fair-like gig, and I just couldn't bear to go see my old heroes trying to relive/replay their hits of decades ago. As for Joni...I give her credit for moving forward (even if it's not the direction I would like to see) rather then tour as a jukebox. Seems to me like she's already transitioned to not performing with an instrument, although I yearn to see her in an unplugged, intimate setting and she seems like she's still got plenty of zest to do so. Speaking of old-timers, Joan Baez is coming to the Handlebar October 5. Come on down to Greenville & I can most likely arrange a meet & greet for you as I know the owner well (and have spent LOTS of money with him over the years) Even though I'm not a huge Baez fan, I'll go see her based on what's she given over the years, plus the fact that she's such a legend. Bob NP: REM, "Bang & Blame" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:38:17 EDT From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Jonifest 2003 Attendees Only 2 months left to Jonifest 2003. Is your name on here? If not, what are you WAITING FOR???? :-) COMING TO JONIFEST 2003: Jason Avery (jasonavery@hotmail.com) - Hamilton, Ontario Rachel Avery (posall@hotmail.com) - Hamilton, Ontario Bette Benedict (mcbette@webtv.net) - Lambertville, NJ Donna Binkley (djb@binkleybarfield.com) - Houston, Texas Walt Breen (bigwaltinsf@aol.com) - San Francisco, CA Karyn Callaghan (karyncallaghan@hotmail.com) - Hamilton, Ontario Sue Cameron (scam1@freeway.net) - Alanson, MI Alison Einerson (alisone4@yahoo.com) - Salt Lake City, UT Chuck Eisenhardt (chuck@chucke.net) - Arlington, MA Stephen Epstein (frasere@intergate.ca) - Vancouver, B.C. Lori Fye (lrfye@lrfye.lunarpages.com) - Silver Spring, MD Martin Giles (mlg@ukonline.co.uk) - sudbury, middlesex Jenny Goodspeed (jrgoodspeed@yahoo.com) - Shutesbury, MA Brian Gross (briangross@rocketmail.com) - Woodbury, NJ Susan Guzzi (groovchacha@yahoo.com) - Chicago, IL Gisele Hawkins (wheezygee@aol.com) - Birmingham, AL Barbara Hindley (barbh@bhindley.com) - Arlington, MA Mags Holden-Gross (magsnbrei@yahoo.com) - Woodbury, NJ Lucy Hone (lulu.hone@virgin.net) - Gosport, Hampshire UK Les Irvin (les@jmdl.com) - Colorado Springs, CO Jody Johnson (johnsonjs@earthlink.net) - Portsmouth, NH Nikki Johnson (stealth@voicenet.com) - Philadelphia, PA Victor Johnson (waytoblu@mindspring.com) - Decatur, Georgia Ed Jordan (EDWARDJORDAN1@AOL.COM) - ft. myers, fl Wally Kairuz (wallykai@fibertel.com.ar) - BUENOS AIRES, CAPITAL Alex Krutsky (mm@celebrityseries.org) - Cambridge, MA Patrick Leader (pleader@nyc.rr.com) - new york, ny JIM LHOMMEDIEU (jlamadoo@yahoo.com) - COVINGTON, KY Barbara Little (balittle@ptd.net) - Tafton, PA Chris Marshall (chris@hatstand.org) - Cambridge, Cambridgeshire Catherine McKay (Anima_Rising@yahoo.ca) - Etobicoke, ON Maggie McNally (mm@celebrityseries.org) - Cambridge, MA John Moore (jmoore@esva.net) - Chincoteague, VA Bob Muller (scjoniguy@aol.com) - Greenville, SC Bob Murphy (murphycopy@aol.com) - Watertown, MA Kerry Nikutta (myrtlmoo@ticon.net) - Milwaukee, WI Michael Paz (michael@pyramidaudio.net) - Destrehan, La Lieve Reckers (reckersl@ebrd.com) - London, United Kingdom Marianne Rizzo (treegreen1@hotmail.com) - West Rush, NY Anne Sandstrom (anne@sandstrom.com) - Waltham, MA Claudia SanSoucie (claud9@comcast.net) - Baltimore, MD Bob Sartorius (bobsart48@aol.com) - Lake Hiawatha, NJ Cindy Scaglione (cscag333@aol.com) - Tampa, FL Rebecca Seale (Bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com) - Mason, OH Ashara Stansfield (AsharaProducLLC@aol.com) - Topsfield, MA Jimmy Stewart (FMYFL@AOL.COM) - Ft. Myers, FL Sarah Stringer (strings@doctors.net.uk) - Magham Down, Nr. Hailsham, East Sussex John van Tiel (johnvantiel@home.nl) - Delfzijl, The Netherlands Cindy Vickery (cindyvickery@yahoo.com) - Birmingham, Alabama Not received deposit yet, but interested in coming? Ron Greer (flopit@mweb.co.za) - Lyttleton, Gauteng, South Africa Heather Galli (chiaroscuro@snet.net) - Durham, CT Yael Harlap (yael@alumni.brown.edu) - Ann Arbor, MI Robert Holliston (roberto1011@hotmail.com) - Victoria, British Columbia Craig Jenkins (cactustreemotel@hotmail.com) - Round Rock, Texas Sue McNamara (sem8@cornell.edu) - Ithaca, NY Steve Polifka (polifkas@matc.edu) - Milwaukee, WI Pearl Weisberg (WirlyPearl@aol.com) - Hollywood, Florida ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:18:49 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: When is it time to quit? sjc What an interesting post, Mark. As I read it I felt my heart softly breaking for Ms. O'Day and for all her fans. Thanks to your writing, I could hear her in her prime, and see in my mind's eye the difference as she performed on Wednesday. I don't know how I will REALLY feel when/if that time comes with Joni, but I believe that from where I sit now, at the ripe old age of 50, that if her situation was as you described that I would not go to see her. It runs contrary to her whole package, and I would prefer to hear her songs and hear her stories from the archives. Nothing lasts forever, after all. While the part of me that has identified with Joni Mitchell and her lyrics and music since I was 17 years old may keep me seeking more, more, more - as a way to capture my own lost youth - it seems to me if that were my motivation I would rather watch the videos and, keeping mirrors far away, imagine that I am that young lass with long Peggy Lipton (except brown) hair and love beads identifying with all of the ladies of the canyon. So, Mark, in sum, I think I would not go, and would hope that our Ms. Mitchell would not choose this route. However, I can tell you that here at Celebrity Series where we present artists from around the globe who have achieved reputations as being in the top echelon of their respective forms, the ago that goes along with the territory does not always allow the artist to see the truth. We have presented artists who are past their prime and it is a hard call where the line is that is crossed from "past prime" to "too far gone." Sadly, it sounds as though there is no such ambiguity with Anita O'Day's situation. Best, Maggie NP: Becky Barksdale - "I'll Say Goodbye" -----Original Message----- From: Mark or Travis [mailto:mark.travis@gte.net] Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 11:10 PM To: JMDL Subject: When is it time to quit? sjc I had an unusual live music experience last night. Anita O'Day was the headliner at Seattle's Jazz Alley for 2 nights and I was curious to see what kind of show she would put on. So I got my friends Melanie & Val who had accompanied Travis & I to the Gorge in 98 to see the Joni/Bob/Van concert to join me in a night on the town. We ate well prepared and spicy tavern food at the Two Bells Tavern, an establishment known in Seattle for its juicy burgers. Then we walked the few blocks, the weather being particularly fine, to Jazz Alley. I have several of Anita's cds, mostly from the 50s and early 60s. I knew she was still around and remembered reading something about her still performing. I also knew that she was getting up there in years. But having experienced the seemingly inexhaustible energy and still brilliant talent of Jon Hendricks and Annie Ross a couple of years ago, I had high hopes that Anita would be one of those singers like Alberta Hunter who managed to retain her vitality and vigor into her later years. Unfortunately, my hunch was not a good one. I just looked up Anita's date of birth on her web site. The woman is 83 years old. The show was prefaced by video footage from live performances projected on a large screen, some dating back to the 40s but mostly from the early 60s. These clips showed an animated and upbeat Anita at her peak. But last night she shuffled on stage, stood mostly with her back to the audience so she could look at music sheets on the piano and still couldn't get out about 2/3rds of the lyrics to the songs she sang. Her pitch was erratic and the notes she did hit she had trouble sustaining. During gaps she made feeble attempts to scat or motioned to the band to play over the muffed lyrics. The Bob Kaye trio did the best they could to support her, ably playing piano, bass and drum, giving her cues and trying to fill in wherever possible. But ultimately this ghost of a performance was painful to watch. During a break, after watching some more film clips that included some of her performance from the vintage Newport Jazz festival film 'Jazz on A Summer's Day', we decided to leave rather than watch the poor woman struggle through another handful of songs. The audience was very supportive of Anita. It was clear that most of those present recognized this woman's place in the pantheon of great jazz singers. The voice never had the clarity or range of Ella Fitzgerald or Sarah Vaughan or touched quite the emotional depths that Billie Holiday did. Maybe that's why she never attained the same exalted position in jazz posterity that those women did. But when I listen to vintage Anita O'Day, I hear elements of each of those singers. Her singing was amazingly agile, jumping all over her range or scatting up and down with an ease that rivaled both Ella and Sarah. Sometimes you would hear echoes of Sassy's slide or, more often than not, she would hit each note in a vocal run with dead-on precision with no slide at all. I hear a brightness in her singing like Ella had but I also hear darker, richer tones and a way of bending the notes that is reminiscent of Sarah. And Anita's voice has a definite rasp to it, much like Lady Day's did. Not being a jazz expert, I get the impression that she really came into her own with the advent of bop. She could swing a song like nobody's business. Rhythm seems to be in her blood. Ultimately she created her own unique sound. I imagine that quite a few people that heard her last night were content to experience even the faintest echo of her genius. She was clearly one of a kind. So why does someone who was considered to be one of the top performers in her field keep trying to do it, long after the ability to perform has deserted her? Was last night an off night? Is she so driven by her love for the music to keep getting on that stage whether she is up to it or not? Or is she in dire financial straights and needs the money just to keep body and soul together? Suppose that, against all odds and laws of probability, 20 years from now Joni is still performing in small clubs. Suppose she has arthritis and can't play guitar or piano anymore. Suppose her voice has deteriorated to the point where she can't hit any of the notes anymore and her mental faculties are such that she can't remember most of her own lyrics. Would you go to see her? Would you still feel the old thrill of being in her presence and hearing her live? Would you be satisfied with memories of a genius at work projected onto something that could hardly even be called a performance? When should a performer hang it up and retire? I don't regret going last night. I bought a DVD of a 1963 performance in Tokyo that is only available at her gigs or through her website and also picked up a cd that Anita had signed earlier in the day. So if she does need the money, I'm glad I could help Anita out in a small way and it's certainly nice to have an autographed cd. I enjoyed the time spent with Mel & Val and I can say that I saw Anita O'Day, was in the same room with her. But I don't really feel like I can say that I saw her perform. I can't quite put the experience into perspective and would appreciate hearing anyone else's thoughts about it. I suppose if Anita really, really wants to keep on keeping on, she has earned the right to do so. What does anyone else think? How much slack does legendary status demand we cut a performer who, for whatever reason, does not deliver a competent performance? I would love to hear from some of the musicians on the list about this. Thanks for reading (if you've made it this far.) Mark E. in Seattle PS: I listened to the soundtrack of 'Short Cuts' on the way home. Does anyone else own this record? It seemed somehow appropriate as I was driving home. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:49:37 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: When is it time to quit? sjc > Considering the way the record business was set up then, she > probably made nothing from her recordings, had no savings or > retirement plan, and has no other choice than to trade on her > past to stay alive. This is what I fear about the situation. I realize that recording artists in the past (and still to a large degree) got the short end of the stick as far as revenues from their records were concerned. I would hate to think that this 83 year old woman *has* to perform just to keep body & soul together. That would be my guess, but maybe she just > feels like she loves music so much, she wants to keep doing it. And if that is the case, I sort of feel like she has a right to keep doing it. Obviously there are still people who want to see her. > >> Suppose she has >> arthritis and can't play guitar or piano anymore. > > Apparently she has already given up both! I would say it's never wise to second guess Joni. Who could have predicted the return the acoustic after DED and CMIARS? > >> Suppose her voice >> has deteriorated to the point where she can't hit any of the notes > > Dude, now you're really trying to get me into trouble. But to answer > your question, yes, I would still go and see her. It might be a sad > reminder of what she (and myself) used to be, but whatever, sorrow > has been her forte anyway. But Joni will never be in a position where > she has to do that for financial reasons. She could scale back her > lifestyle and live on royalties, and presumably investments and > savings. Well my question about Joni was purely hypothetical. I don't see it happening. I'm sure she doesn't need the money and she's threatened to quit so many times. I can't imagine that she would continue after the time when she can't do a capable job anymore. And, if I didn't make it clear before, Joni has in no way shape or form come close to the level of deterioration that I saw Wednesday night at Jazz Alley. I saw Joni in 2000 and she is doing just fine, imo. I just was throwing out a 'what if' because I wanted to hear what people's thoughts were on the subject of idols continuing to tour and perform even though they really are past it. Thanks for the feedback from all who posted! Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:15:34 EDT From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Come to Jonifest FREE raffle Just a reminder that the deadline for this incredible opportunity is only 4 days away!! Your chances likely will be 1 in 10. How many raffles have this kind of odds? Announcing..... A Jonifest RAFFLE!!! To enter: Send $30 (payable to Ashara Productions, LLC) along with your name, address, phone number and e-mail address to win a chance at a FULL, all-expense paid weekend to Jonifest 2003. (Can also Paypal this amount.) Please write "JONIFEST RAFFLE CONTEST" somewhere in your note. RULES: 1) All entries must be received by midnight, EST, June 10, 2003. 2) Open to EVERYONE!!!! 3) This offer is open to NEW registrants for Jonifest only. Participants already signed up for Jonifest 2003 are not eligible. 4) Does NOT include transportation to/from Jonifest. Weekend price only for a shared accomodation with a shared bath. 5) There must be a minimum number of 10 entries, otherwise contest is void and all entries will be returned. 6) For 10-19 entries, there will be one winner. For 20-29 entries, 2 winners, etc. How can you resist? If you've been thinking of going to Jonifest this year but funds are tight, the worst that can happen is that you gamble $30 for a chance to join us for a GREAT weekend of fun, family, friends, and music!! (fusic??) The BEST that can happen is that you come to Jonifest for $30!!! The odds are high that you will win as the highest odds are 1 in 19, and can conceivably be as low as 1 in 10!!! Enter now, and join us in August!! GOOD LUCK!!! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:50:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "walterphil" Subject: older artists mark wrote "Stephane Grappelli and Cab Calloway were still fantastic right up until their Deaths in their 80's." of course! not to mention sarah vaughan rosemary clooney frank sinatra duke ellington the current mr tony bennett-- he cant sing as well as the old days but he's still pretty friggin GREAT and scads of others. either you truly love your heroes or you dont. either cut em some slack or go listen to eminem & britnney spears. joni is gonna be around for a very long time. walt The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:59:19 -0400 From: "Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: When is it time to quit? sjc Hmmmm. You seem to be asking for others to interpret how you feel. I think you didn't have the experience you had hoped to have. You appreciate her hey-day because of the video at the show, enough to purchase a DVD of her creative peak. You clearly got something out of it, yet like most of us Joni fans, you were ambivalent about the experience. The way I read it, she raised lots of philosophical questions. I'd say, thank the Lord that she has people around her that "package" her in such a way that you got something out of the experience in spite of her current limitations. Where's Dr. Sigmondegreen when we need her? Maybe she'd say "Come in for couseling twice per week to work through your feelings about Anita O'Day. I suspect it's not about Ms. O'Day. I suspect it's about your own mortality. Bring $90 per visit, no insurance, in small, unmarked bills, and your most recent dream about lobster traps." Lama, who thinks the "NJC" filtering is broken. In my "only JMDL Digest", I got Mark's email labeled "SJC". In part, Mark in Seattle said, >>I don't regret going last night. I bought a DVD of a 1963 performance in Tokyo that is only available at her gigs or through her website and also picked up a cd that Anita had signed earlier in the day. >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:50:09 -0700 From: "paul@anglesnet.com" Subject: Re-Listing Joni's Guitar on eBay Hi, everyone, After numerous discussions with JMDL members, we've decided to relist Joni's blonde Ibanez George Benson on eBay. You can find it at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2536919194 I really appreciate all of the thoughtful and thought-provoking feedback, stories, suggestions, and encouragement I got from this group. Please don't hesitate to offer more! All my best, Paul Angles - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul D. Angles | Marketing & Strategy paul@anglesnet.com | 310-704-9448 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 20:59:55 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: The Washhouse of Mary of Gethsemane les that was simply beautiful. thank you. this, and all the other reworked lyrics really must be preserved. ron np - sass jordan - double trouble ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 15:35:44 -0400 From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #185 A couple of questions about the Canadian made Tribute to Joni Mitchell "Back to the Garden" ... 1. What year did it come out? 2. Special thanks are given to Joni in the packaging - has she ever commented on the collection? 3. Were these artists popular when the album came out? 4. Did it make much noise when released- did critics rate it favorably? 5. And most important - what did/(do) jmdl's think of it? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 12:38:00 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: When is it time to quit? sjc Mark wrote: > Yes, I would go to see Joni when she was past it (LOL, > some people think she already is), especially if it > was in a small venue - a club or something. However, I > suspect she just wouldn't do it, nor does she need to. > After all, she has her painting as well, so even if > she gets Alzy's, she has something to do! I would go to see Joni, just to sit in her presence, regardless. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:56:36 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: Joni mention in WSJ The JMDL posts are not the only thing I'm catching up on (just cleaned out nearly 600 posts - woohoo!!!). I was looking at last Friday's Wall Street Journal - Weekend Journal section and there were two Joni references on facing pages! The Tastings (weekly wine) column on special bottles and the memories they embody quoted her just before starting the column: "I could drink a case of you, darling/And still be on my feet/I'd still be on my feet. --Joni Mitchell" Then, on the opposite page, Joe Morgenstern's film review of Chen Kaige's "Together" includes the line, "What I kept hearing in my head, though, was Joni Mitchell's old refrain, 'stoking the star-making machinery.'" Right on! Maggie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 19:01:06 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Time to quit? I was faced with something like this dilemma a few years ago when Nina Simone came to town. A friend of mine asked if I wanted to go, and I wasn't sure. I held her in the highest esteem, as one of the true geniuses of the century, a unique musician, interpreter, singer and songwriter. Then again, I had heard a lot about her recent concerts, which from all accounts were patchy at best; I'd seen her on telly hacking through perfunctory renditions of My Baby Just Cares For Me and I Put A Spell On You. In the end, I decided not to go. I didn't want to sully my impression of her by seeing a going-through-the-motions routine from an embittered old lush. Obviously, I may have made a huge mistake. And it was my choice whether I'd let a bad show influence my esteem for her. But I can live with that. Something was preserved in my not going, and I don't regret it. Until a few years ago, news of a Joni tour would have meant instant action stations. Now, I don't know. The recent evidence tells me (yes, only my opinion, yada yada yada) that she simply can't sing any more. Unless I heard something to make me change that opinion, I'd probably decline. In the words of Rick (sorta), I'll always have Hejira... Azeem in London NP: Radiohead doing some tedious noodling on Later with Jools ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 20:31:30 -0400 From: "Robert Argento" Subject: RE: Time to quit? Let's take a closer look at this. No one is right and no one is wrong, of course. We have several different reasons for wanting to see Joni. But the argument that "she can't sing anymore" doesn't hold for me - and for several reasons. True, her voice has changed (so has yours if you are as old as we of the Joni generation). I feel that she uses this change in order to emphasize the older - more mature - interpretations that she now gives to some of her work. But Azeem was speaking not of this but rather the "art of singing". Let's look at Bob Dylan for example. Say what you will about Bob, but his singing voice - expecially when he began, was not one of his "finer" qualities. But we see Dylan as a PERFORMER not primarily for how well he can modulate his vocal chords and control his breathing. It is to listen to his words and how he FURTHER interprets them with his intonation, his voice, his instruments and presentation. The man is a poet - who happen to sing his words (somewhat). I would probably go to see Joni even if she wasn't going to sing at all because her importance to me is her art - in this case her poetry and ability to express emotions and such that many of us have found all to familier. But if I was interested in a purely musical experience there are very many excellent vocalists who can sing circles around Joni - but could never use that talent to interpret what she is trying to say in her work. So I would probly opt for the Joni-ticket even if she was going to "sing" it in american sign language! (signed) Robban (who was at a "Doors" concert two weeks ago - Ray and Robbie are still great musicians - even if Jim is dead and John wasn't there) > -----Original Message----- > From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of AzeemAK@aol.com > Sent: den 6 juni 2003 19:01 > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Time to quit? > > > I was faced with something like this dilemma a few years ago > when Nina Simone > came to town. A friend of mine asked if I wanted to go, and > I wasn't sure. > I held her in the highest esteem, as one of the true geniuses > of the century, > a unique musician, interpreter, singer and songwriter. Then > again, I had > heard a lot about her recent concerts, which from all > accounts were patchy at > best; I'd seen her on telly hacking through perfunctory > renditions of My Baby Just > Cares For Me and I Put A Spell On You. In the end, I decided > not to go. I > didn't want to sully my impression of her by seeing a > going-through-the-motions > routine from an embittered old lush. > > Obviously, I may have made a huge mistake. And it was my > choice whether I'd > let a bad show influence my esteem for her. But I can live > with that. > Something was preserved in my not going, and I don't regret it. > > Until a few years ago, news of a Joni tour would have meant > instant action > stations. Now, I don't know. The recent evidence tells me > (yes, only my > opinion, yada yada yada) that she simply can't sing any more. > Unless I heard > something to make me change that opinion, I'd probably > decline. In the words of > Rick (sorta), I'll always have Hejira... > > Azeem in London > NP: Radiohead doing some tedious noodling on Later with Jools ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:05:27 -0400 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: lignininousstuff Lignininousstuff I encountered the Deity's little one, He was perambulating along the way, And I enquired, what exactly is your destination? And to thus he replied: I am headed towards Yasgur's homestead, Whence I shall become one with a stone and tumble group, And I shall pitch my tent on that earth, there And endeavor to liberate my spirit. We are all bits of cosmic matter, We are all noble; And we should all hastily retreat To that sacred, planted place. Well then, may I perambulate along at your side? I have arrived at this place to escape the brownishness; It's as if I were a gear In something larger Going 'round and 'round. Well perhaps it is simply the Here and Now, Or it might just be the How of Humanity, I don't understand myself, And, alas, there is much to comprehend. We are all bits of cosmic matter, We are all noble. And we should all hastily retreat To that sacred, planted place. When we arrived at that town, exactly 30 kilometes due west of JONIFEST, We were 500,000 or more, With merriment and melody abounding. And I imagined just for an instant, there were F-18's in the heavens, Metamorphosing into morphos, Beyond us all. We are all bits of cosmic matter, We are all noble; And we should all hastily retreat To that sacred, planted place. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:10:25 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Time to quit? Chrys, Yeah, I'm not crazy about the "condition" of her voice. Now consider this. Have you seen the movie called "Apocalypse Now"? In the documentary that his wife made called "Hearts of Darkness", the director talked at length about the setbacks: the typhoons that delayed filming. The fact that sets were made by manual labor, literally lifted by hand, one stone at a time. The problems with financing. Coppola, who had directed the Godfather epics, had embarked upon a modern adaptation of Joseph Conrad's "Heart of Darkness" without an ending. Brando refused to participate. Martin Sheen had a heart attack only 1/2 into filming. There were multiple setbacks with subplots about a French plantation. The president of the Philippines kept recalling the US helicopters, ruining hours of footage. Francis says, "I'm not happy about the scenes with the birds. I'm gonna have to cut the French plantation scene. But it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how many scenes I attempt and reject. No one will see them. It doesn't matter how many scenes I fail to capture. All that matters is the ones I get." I'll leave the metaphor, the parallel, the analysis, and the conclusion to you. If you "get" her lyrics, I'm sure you're capable. About the Joni Mitchell Discussion List: Welcome home. If you want a CD of Joni and James Taylor on the BBC in 1970, interview shows on CD, and / or 6 video tapes stuffed full of collected Joni stuff, write me off list. BTW, I think Roger Waters is a pretty good story teller his-own-bad-self. Has he finished writing too? Lama Chrys said, in part, >>> Unfortunately, and please don't throw stone @ me, I say this with regret and empathy, not with anger. One man's opinion here, but: it literally breaks my heart to hear how smoking has in effect destroyed Joni's extraordinary voice. She hung on there longer than she probably should have, and now her voice is a shadow of those old albums from SONG TO A SEAGULL ending with HEJIRA.>>>>> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:52:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: When is it time to quit? sjc --- Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > > Lama, > who thinks the "NJC" filtering is broken. In my > "only JMDL Digest", I got Mark's email labeled > "SJC". Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure somebody will!) but it seems to me the only thing that DOES get filtered out for the joni-onlies is stuff marked njc. It seems to me that things like "sjc" and "vljc" are on that list of crazy acronyms that you get when you first sign up, but it's probably more of a courtesy than anything. I believe they still get through to both lists, but that joni-onlies can choose to delete them if they want (?) Like, who would notice? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 19:06:24 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Time to quit? > I think I heard or read somewhere that Joni liked smoking because > it kept > her voice low! I think she has also said that the first time she smoked a cigarette her head suddenly became clearer than it had ever been and she was hooked. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 19:30:46 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Time to quit? > But Azeem was speaking not of this but rather the "art of singing". > Let's look at Bob Dylan for example. Say what you will about Bob, > but his singing voice - expecially when he began, was not one of his > "finer" qualities. But we see Dylan as a PERFORMER not primarily for > how well he can modulate his vocal chords and control his breathing. > It is to listen to his words and how he FURTHER interprets them with > his intonation, his voice, his instruments and presentation. The man > is a poet - who happen to sing his words (somewhat). > > I would probably go to see Joni even if she wasn't going to sing at > all because her importance to me is her art - in this case her poetry > and ability to express emotions and such that many of us have found > all to familier. You make a good point about Joni and about Dylan. However, in the case of Anita O'Day, she is known as a great jazz interpreter of other people's work. Her strengths were her rhythmic sense, vocal control and daring forays into improvisation and de/reconstruction. None of this was evident in her performance. She barely sang half of each song what with the lyrics that were left out. It was disturbing. I'm honestly not trying to be critical. I think she deserves better than a snide negative review. But if I had to write a review of that performance for a local publication, I don't know how I would do it or what I would say. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:58:08 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Back To The Garden In a message dated 6/6/2003 8:31:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > A couple of questions about the Canadian made Tribute to Joni Mitchell > "Back to the Garden" ... > > >1. What year did it come out? 1992 > >2. Special thanks are given to Joni in the packaging - has she ever > commented on the collection? She didn't care for it & stated that in her opinion the performers didn't understand the songs, missed the point. > >3. Were these artists popular when the album came out? No. Sloan has a following, but that was pretty much it. Some of the others were "known", but none were really popular. Of course I'm speaking as an American, and all of these artists are Canadian, but I am aware of most truly famous Canadian performers. > >4. Did it make much noise when released- did critics rate it favorably? Don't know for sure, maybe somebody else can remember. No reviews of it in the JMDL library. It became a cutout fairly quickly. > >5. And most important - what did/(do) jmdl's think of it? When it was treed & traded here a couple of years ago, opinions were not good. Most of these are very hard to take for those who like their Joni with the rough edges smoothed out. I didn't care for it at first but it definitely rewards repeated listenings and I can appreciate it much more now, especially with about 1000 other Joni covers under my belt. Bob NP: Steely Dan, "The Last Mall" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 20:16:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: Back To The Garden As a Canadian I can tell you that none of the artists on the "Back to the Garden" tribute are well known here. Sloan is the exception, as Bob mentioned. Faring much worse than this collection, however, is a horrible import called "I Came Upon A Child of God - A Tribute to Joni Mitchell" with various artists who are not even mentioned on the liner notes! Cruel stuff. - -Andrew __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 01:09:41 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #315 - money I'm sure she doesn't need the money ... Who knows what kind of expenses Joni has, but in terms of income, if covering her songs remains fashionable among recording artists, she will never have to worry about income. For example, if the Counting Crows current album continues to sell at a good clip (if the next single does well and, by the way, Big Yellow Taxi is still climbing the charts in two radio formats nearly six months after release), Joni could well make at least $250,000 in royalties off that one recording alone. (Sorry for the horrible sentence structure, I am a professional writer, believe it or not). As for the question "Would I go to see Joni in concert if I knew she was frail and couldn't sing any more," well, I have thought of that very thing. I guess I would go. It raised a ruckus here when I concluded after the Travelogue release that that time has pretty much already come, as far as the voice is concerned. I know some agree with that and others don't. But if she toured again in the near future (which she won't), I would go. I am still so very grateful that I got to see her shows in 1998 and 2000. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 02:01:15 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: June 7 1978: Joni attended the Bob Dylan concert at Universal Amphitheater in Los Angeles, with Don Alias. Future JMDLer Steve Dulson and his date, Lori Cheatham, approached Joni at intermission to show her Steve's pants, which were embroidered with "Ladies of the Canyon" geese. Joni thinks they are "nice". She was quite charming, but obviously wasn't really interested in extending the conversation. 1988: Joni was interviewed for the "Rock Arena" show in Australia - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 02:01:15 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: June 7 On June 7 the following item was published: 1998: "Both Sides Now" - Los Angeles Times (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=149 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 23:19:09 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #315 - money > As for the question "Would I go to see Joni in concert if I knew she > was > frail and couldn't sing any more," well, I have thought of that very > thing. I guess I would go. It raised a ruckus here when I concluded > after the Travelogue release that that time has pretty much already > come, as far as the voice is concerned. All I can say to this is if you think Joni can't sing anymore, you have no concept of what Anita O'Day's performance was like or what I was driving at. Obviously, I have failed to communicate what I was trying to get at. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #186 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)