From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #141 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, April 24 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 141 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- under the thumb of the maid and help me ["Lucy Hone" ] LAST CALL--Vine Offer: Joni & James Taylor 10/29/70 London [CDTraderJohn@] Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" [Randy Remote ] Re: swishing chippendales SJC ["mike pritchard" ] Re: Crosby, Guinnevere and Joni [Howard ] spoony's big adventure [Alison E ] Re: spoony's big adventure [Doug ] JONI ON HEADPHONES!! A WHOLE NEW WORLD!! [] Last Chance for Dark Cafe Days (fwd) [anne-smith@att.net] Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" ["kakki" ] Re: JONI ON HEADPHONES!! A WHOLE NEW WORLD!! [Catherine McKay ] Prince a case of you ["Paul Headon" ] Re: Prince a case of you [Catherine McKay ] blue - ink of/on a pin [magsnbrei ] The second song on Court & Spark ["Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: under the thumb of the maid and help me That is the beauty of Joni's lyrics, isn't it. There are so many ways that each of us can read and interpret her. I have often thought that "being under the tumb of the maid" could also mean that you spend hours cleaning the place up just so that the maid won't think you are a total slut.....leading to the analagy that the person in the song is herded by the need to have a life that is totally closed to any form of criticism, .....keep those corners pegged down, have no dust and specks of fluff that may raise an eyebrow even from someone you pay to do exactly that for you .... Its the horrible feeling of being exposed to a strangers scrutiny... Anyway HELP ME Yes Azeem she does say "We love our loving, but not like we love our freedom".. Great sex but not going to commit are we..... She likes all the stuff that goes with the fun and freindship and fears the love aspect as it could lead to something that would ultimately self destruct.... It is a fantastic song.....just love it to bits and it jiggles about in my head sooo much... Anyway, have to go and walk that dog and have a breath of fresh air... Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 06:35:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: under the thumb of the maid and help me --- Lucy Hone wrote: > That is the beauty of Joni's lyrics, isn't it. There > are so many ways that > each of us can read and interpret her. I have often > thought that "being under > the tumb of the maid" could also mean that you spend > hours cleaning the place > up just so that the maid won't think you are a total > slut..... My mother used to do that, leading me to the point where I am today - even if I could afford a housecleaner, I'd be afraid to have one come into my house (though I'm badly in need of one.) > leading to the > analagy that the person in the song is herded by the > need to have a life that > is totally closed to any form of criticism, > .....keep those corners pegged > down, have no dust and specks of fluff that may > raise an eyebrow even from > someone you pay to do exactly that for you .... Its > the horrible feeling of > being exposed to a strangers scrutiny... ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 08:50:10 -0400 From: "PAUL PETERSON" Subject: Permavine offer from CD Trader John @aol.com I'm ready. Sign me up. What do I do? Thanks for a great idea! Paul Peterson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 06:11:25 -0700 (PDT) From: bryan aaker Subject: Joni Bootlegs I wonder if anyone could clear a few things up for me. I recently came across a bootleg called Alternative Hissing of Summer Lawns. What are the mixes? Are they early mixes? or did she re-record the record after a point? Any info would enhance an already fabulous listening experience. Thanks! BryanP.S. sorry if this has been covered already! n.p. Bill Frisell and the Intercontinental Quartet ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 12:53:27 EDT From: CDTraderJohn@aol.com Subject: LAST CALL--Vine Offer: Joni & James Taylor 10/29/70 London Please read this ENTIRE MESSAGE before responding to this offer. Please retain this e-mail for future reference. You will need it when you reoffer this Perma-Vine disc to the next recipient. I will accept at least six Perma-Viners who respond to this message with their complete name and mailing address, their promise to reoffer the vine disc promptly, and their promise to burn at least one copy for a burnerless member. Depending upon the responses I receive, I will attempt to designate discs by region (US, Canada, Europe, etc.) in order to prevent long postal delays between viners. However, if, when you reoffer, you do not get a response from within your region, you may offer to a JMDL member in any region. This is a Perma-Vine offer for the wonderful Joni Mitchell & James Taylor show which was recorded by the BBC on 10/29/70. It contains all the songs from the original BBC transcription disc, plus some additional Aircheck tracks from the same performance. In order to participate in this Perma-Vine you MUST be able to burn a copy of the vine disc for yourself (you may NOT keep the vine disc). You must then reoffer the ORIGINAL VINE DISC on JMDL and forward it onto the next recipient within a few days of your receipt. It must be reofferred exclusively on the JMDL list. Should a point come when there is NO response on JMDL after TWO postings, you may offer this Perma-Vine disc to another group but you MUST post that information on JMDL so others will know of the change. ******** NOTE: In addition to being able to burn a copy for yourself, YOU FURTHER AGREE to burn at least one copy for a burnerless JMDL member and offer it through a posting on the group. You may, if you desire, offer copies to more than one person. You may also trade this show, but only after you have forwarded the ORIGINAL vine disc to the next recipient. ******** This show was recorded at peak moments in both artists' careers -- Joni working on the songs that would become "Blue" and James having success with the recently released "Sweet baby James". This is a very memorable performance. Here is the track information: 1) That Song About the Midway Joni 2) The Gallery Joni 3) Rainy Day Man James 4) Steamroller Blues James 5) The Priest Joni 6) Carey Joni 7) Carolina in My Mind James 8) California Joni + James 9) For Free Joni + James 10) The Circle Game Joni + James 11) You Can Close Your Eyes Joni + James 12) Hunter Joni 13) River Joni 14) My Old Man Joni 15) A Case of You Joni 16) Carey (unedited intro) Joni NOTE: This offer is being made as a Perma-Vine to ensure that all participants, no matter how far down the line, have the opportunity to obtain a clean, glitch-free copy of this wonderful show. If this offer goes well, I intend to offer more shows here in the future. I hope you enjoy it as much as I have! John Epstein CDTraderJohn@aol.com P.S. -- If anyone can provide me with cloned source discs, or very low generation copies, of early (pre '74) Joni show for future vines, I'd sure appreciate ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 11:19:42 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" I almost said Christine....but, isn't this his second Jan? kakki wrote: > Great analysis Randy but: > > > another reference to Jan's death? > > Jan is his wife and quite alive and well! Christine is the one he lost. > Crosby has said that "Guinnivere" is about three different ladies - the > speculation is Christine, Joni and the other is a mystery not yet revealed. > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:30:34 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: swishing chippendales SJC mike pritchard wrote: >> Hi Debra, Your original guess was better. You were half right then. Now you're totally wrong. If you think about your original guess it will become clear which half is right and which is not. Then you can take it from there.<< Debra then said: OK, one more time (and making use this time of Kakki's thinking cap :-): 1. Back to my first choice of Raymond Chandler 2. "The High Window" 3. Again, your quotes make me think of HOSL 4. I doubt if Joni's read this book, but she may have read something else by Chandler and come across similar images since his main character often observes the details of a scene and then makes some comment about how it doesn't look "lived in". Marlowe looks beneath the surface. He sees the grit. Of places. Of people. He'd squint an appreciative eye at blonde and leggy Joni. Maybe even start to smile. She'd speak. Brainy, too, he'd think. Blue-eyed trouble had come to call. > mike (who picked up Joan Didion's 'Slouching towards Bethlehem' for less > than a dollar this evening) A synopsis and review would be most appreciated. Then I can manage to never actually purchase a Joan Didion book and have more time to continue reading gritty LA detective stories... Debra Shea mike says Correct - The book is "The High Window" (filmed as "The Brasher Doubloon") and was written by Raymond Chandler. And I love the mini parody of Marlowe meets Mitchell... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:40:07 +0100 From: Howard Subject: Re: Crosby, Guinnevere and Joni Hi all You were right about the EBDGAD tuning for Guinevere. That's the one! Incidentally, Joni has used this same tuning on a few of songs: e.g. Sex Kills, Lead Balloon - in Joni notation these tunings are C73525 and D73525). That just means the lowest notes are C/D not E, but the relationship between the open string notes is the same. Guinevere is a GREAT song to play. I've seen a couple of magazine transcriptions, and they were both pretty good. The main "riff" that crops up in the verse is based on 022000 - just hammer on to the 2nd fret notes from the open strings (you probably already figured this out!). Howard P.S Sue - you're too generous with your praise (and I think your emails might be bad for my ego...) ;-) Susan McNamara wrote: > > Dear Bobsart: > > Guinnevere is a classy song, but I've never played it. I looked at > the two tabs on Olga and they both confer with the EBDGAD tuning. > Alas, there's no way to tell if this is right because the words > "Howard Wright" don't appear under the tabbed by listing. :-) > > I am copying this note to the Wanderer list to see if any of our > stalwart tuning experts want to chime in on this dilemma. > > Thanks, sue > > At 9:25 AM -0400 4/20/03, Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > > > Following up on Lama's post: > > > > I have listened to CSN (the CD) a few times since Christmas, after > > not having listened in almost 30 years (I had the album, and played > > it to death for a couple of years after it came out in 1969). During > > that time, Guinnevere was not one of my favorites on the record, to > > say the least (but remeber, I quit on Joni's new work for a long, > > long time when I could not "get" THOSL or Hejira - 'ugh' for the > > umpteenth time). > > > > Anyway, I have now decided that I like this song the best on the > > record (with Wooden Ships a close second - and I have always loved > > the record). I think this is again because my ears have gotten > > better, finally. It occurs to me that this is a song that could hold > > its own in a collection of Joni's best work - high praise to David. > > And it makes me wonder if maybe David did have an influence on > > Joni's music. > > > > Can any of you guitar tab masters tell me what the tuning is for > > Guinnevere ? I will try fiddling with it in EBDGAD, on the off > > chance that that works. It does not sound like standard tuning to my > > ears, but I could easily be wrong. > > > > Bobsart > > > > Lama wrote > > > >> Did Joel show David open tunings? > >> > >> On the sleeve notes of a 1993 re-release of "Crosby, Stills and > >> Nash", Raymond Foye wrote: > >> > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >From its hypnotic opening notes, David Crosby's "Guinnevere" > >> creates a space unlike any other in rock music. "When all my > >> friends > >> were listening to Elvis Presley, I was listening to 1950s West > >> Coast jazz," Crosby notes. Later, Crosby's divergent musical > >> sensibility was further inspired by a close association with Joni > >> Mitchell, whose unusual repertoire of guitar tunings heightened > >> his increasingly oblique musical sense, taking him another step > >> away from standard rock formulas. > >> > >> > >> Fellow musician Joel Bernstein recalls that for Crosby, "the > >> discovery of non-standard tunings was the opening the little door > >> in > >> 'Alice in Wonderland'." By literally rearranging the tones on his > >> guitar (the tuning is EBDGAD), Crosby tapped into a creative > >> well-spring that produced "Deja Vu" and "Song With No Words," > >> within a very short space of time.>>>>>>>> > >> > >> checking in from the NJC digest, > >> Lama > > > > -- > > > Susan McNamara > Assistant to the Dean of Students > Cornell University > 401 Willard Straight Hall > Ithaca, NY 14853 > Voice: (607) 255-1115 > FAX: (607) 255-8082 > E-Mail:sem8@cornell.edu > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:29:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: spoony's big adventure hi all, got some joni content fer ya... one of my radio listeners showed up at the radio station this morning with a joni treat... he burned some joni stuff off an old album called the Warner/Reprise Record SHow, circa 1969. it has a couple of joni cuts on it, including "My American Skirt," fiddle and the drum (which I think is the album cut), and a story called "Spoony's Wonderful Adventure", about Ian & Sylvia's son. it's too cool! does anyone else have it? i'd be happy to copy for people, or send it to bob and have him include it on something else worthwhile. bye! alison e. in slc np: marc cohn The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:22:09 -0400 From: Doug Subject: Re: spoony's big adventure I have that album. In the liner notes it says that those clips are from the Carnegie Hall concert (1969), which I would love to have on CD. Someone somewhere has a copy. Where is "slc" ? Doug Alison E wrote: >hi all, got some joni content fer ya... >one of my radio listeners showed up at the radio >station this morning with a joni treat... >he burned some joni stuff off an old album called the >Warner/Reprise Record SHow, circa 1969. it has a >couple of joni cuts on it, including "My American >Skirt," fiddle and the drum (which I think is the >album cut), and a story called "Spoony's Wonderful >Adventure", about Ian & Sylvia's son. it's too cool! >does anyone else have it? i'd be happy to copy for >people, or send it to bob and have him include it on >something else worthwhile. >bye! >alison e. in slc >np: marc cohn >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo >http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:50:08 -0400 From: Subject: JONI ON HEADPHONES!! A WHOLE NEW WORLD!! I thought someone with recording credentials would take this but no one has. (Kate? RR? Paz?) As a reader of the high-fi magazines 20 years ago and the audiophile magazines for the last 10 years, I'll say, "Yeah." Here's how it works: You take a mono recording and patch it into the board. With a knob that acts like a balance control, you can control the loudness of the track in the apparent mix. With the knob fully Right, it's all in the Right speaker. If it's equally loud in both channels, it sorta sounds like it's in the middle. So, you can take a mono recording of a passing train and "pan" it from right-to-left but it's not gonna sound as real as if you simply record a train in stereo to begin with. DUH! I would bet a week's salary that the name "pan" comes from film. When they rotate the camera it's called a "pan". As in, "We'll pan the Grand Canyon, right to left, and stop on Claudia Schiffer contemplating a Red Delicous apple with a wry smile." Lama Susan said,>> Ken thanks for bringing this one up and liked your term "pan" - whether its correct or not - it's perfect for my taste.>> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:07:51 +0000 From: anne-smith@att.net Subject: Last Chance for Dark Cafe Days (fwd) Hope you can make it. :)Anne Sheridan Smith - ---------------------- Forwarded Message: --------------------- From: Rdalindley@aol.com To: Rdalindley@aol.com Subject: Last Chance for Dark Cafe Days Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:29:01 EDT One last chance to see Dark Cafe Days: Foiled Again sings Joni Mitchell [Unable to display image] This Sunday the 27th @ 9:00 PM Come check it out - or come see it again! Bring several of your friends! Please. Here's what the critics said: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES: "Highly Recommended. . If there is a group performing tighter, more intricate harmonies, I haven't heard them." GAY CHICAGO MAGAZINE: ". . .the depth of Mitchell's work and the suppleness of Foiled Again's tight harmonies, along with each of their individual vocal power, combine for a richly textured and warmly nuanced hour of musical wonderment that will certainly rank as one of this year's best creations. (****)" CABARET HOTLINE ONLINE: "With great vocal harmonies and wonderful material, Foiled Again will send you home with a smile on your face." Come check it out! It's the perfect way to end the weekend. Call for reservations: 773.278.1830 Davenport's Piano Bar + Cabaret 1383 N Milwaukee Foiled Again is: Allison Bazarko Rob Lindley Anne Sheridan Smith with Mike Descoteaux on piano [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of joni card copy.jpg] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:16:08 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" > I almost said Christine....but, isn't this his second Jan? Randy - They have been together for so long and have both gone through 8 1/2 lives that I think she is kind of the "second" (new sober lifetime) Jan. ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:22:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JONI ON HEADPHONES!! A WHOLE NEW WORLD!! --- lamadoo@fuse.net wrote: > I would bet a week's salary that the name "pan" > comes from film. When they rotate the camera it's > called a "pan". As in, "We'll pan the Grand Canyon, > right to left, and stop on Claudia Schiffer > contemplating a Red Delicous apple with a wry > smile." The camera pans - The cocktail hour Behind a blind of potted palms ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:33:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni Bootlegs --- bryan aaker wrote: > I wonder if anyone could clear a few things up for > me. I recently came across a bootleg called > Alternative Hissing of Summer Lawns. What are the > mixes? Are they early mixes? or did she re-record > the record after a point? Any info would enhance an > already fabulous listening experience. Thanks! > BryanP.S. sorry if this has been covered already! > n.p. Bill Frisell and the Intercontinental Quartet Brian, they're demoes. Someone else on the list can probably tell you how the first copy was acquired, but a number of us have it and it's yours for the asking. The songs are (mostly) quite different from the final version of Hissing. For the most part it's just Joni and her guitar (with a few other instruments and overdubs of her voice on some tracks.) And it features a very different version of "Dreamland", which ended up on Don Juan's Reckless Daughter in the end, and not on Hissing at all. I just got this one recently (downloaded from the P2P thing Les set up) and I really enjoy it. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 01:47:55 +0100 From: "Paul Headon" Subject: Prince a case of you hi >>Hey Paul, I have no opinion because I've never heard it. What album is it on? I love Prince and am not surprised that his version is so moving. I found it on a trawl of MP3 files on the internet.. Or shouldn't I say that ?? Best wishes, Paul Headon From Wales - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 18/04/2003 [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:35:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Prince a case of you --- Paul Headon wrote: > > > I found it on a trawl of MP3 files on the internet.. > Or shouldn't I say that Psst. Don't tell anyone, but that's where I got it too. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:01:57 -0700 (PDT) From: magsnbrei Subject: blue - ink of/on a pin on the album covers, CD covers as well as the lyrics book, Joni Mitchell The Complete Poems and Lyrics , the line is as follows: ink OF a pin and it sounds to us like , and has always sounded like.... ink ON a pin so which is it? anyone know? note taken: on the Blue album cover, the lyrics are not hand written by Joni as she has done on some of the others. mags and brian You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:15:56 -0400 From: "Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: The second song on Court & Spark Well, yeah. I've thought this chick had a spark 3 decades ago. Now I've thought that about LOTS of songwriters but she keeps framing the spark in different ways and magically, almost every album seems fresh somehow. I almost never catch her using the same trick over again. It's uncanny really. I mean, the American band "Boston" for example was really good but they only had one trick. By the end of side 1 of the first album, that were already repeating themselves. (for me anyway) But this chick. This chick is different. She always has this weird light on her somehow and strangely, it rarely goes away. (Okay, LOTC & BSN don't get played much here.) Anyway, some of her secrets were revealed to me here on the JMDL. One of them is that she sometimes jams more syllables into a line than is usually attempted. Azeem, I think the line that you quoted is emblematic of that. Recall that Ross-like phrasing: "We lov-v-v-v-e our lo-v-v-v-in' not-like-we-love-our fre-e-e-e-do-ah-ah-ah-ah-m." She really rushes the middle line. Jees, it begins to sound like "Lit Class" when you deconstruct it. I've been leaning on my claim that she more than a "dabbler" in jazz. Holy crow, here's more proof. It's easy now, in retrospect, to say that she was warming up for MINGUS. The thing is though, at the time, it was a great pop album. She pulled out all of the stops on the COURT AND SPARK album. It may have been the first one where she was using "program" music, sound effects, and "casting" people from completely outside the project for cameos. [Cheech and Chong] The playing was a slick and varied as 1980s' Steely Dan. But what knocks me out everytime I reflect is the sequence: LADIES OF THE CANYON BLUE FOR THE ROSES COURT AND SPARK They are so different from each other, it's hard to fathom that all of those songs, almost all of the arangements, all those styles, all of those keen players flowed through a single artist. When I consider that those very different projects were not just produced over a 30 year period, but rather they were consecutive projects, I think it's remarkable. Lama Azeem:>> Is it just me, or does Joni rather swallow the words "but not" on the last line of each verse ("but not like you/we love your/our freedom"), each time she sings it? I think this could be a brilliantly subtle device: >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 02:56:28 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: April 24 1983: Joni performed at Wembley Arena in London 1995: Joni performed on the Late Show with David Letterman, singing "Sex Kills". More info: http://www.jonimitchell.com/Letterman95.html - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 02:56:28 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: April 24 On April 24 the following item was published: 1968: "Riverboat $1.75 Cover" - Variety (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=643 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #141 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)