From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #140 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, April 23 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 140 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JONI ON HEADPHONES!! A WHOLE NEW WORLD!! ["Yensen, Stephen" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #254 Nina simone [Chorando6@aol.com] The second song on Court & Spark [AzeemAK@aol.com] RE: "Under the thumb of the maid" [Deb Messling ] Re: JONI ON HEADPHONES!! A WHOLE NEW WORLD!! [Susan Guzzi ] Re: Call for an Acronyms help guide [FMYFL@aol.com] Case of You/Prince [anne-smith@att.net] Vine Offer: Joni & James Taylor 10/29/70 London [CDTraderJohn@aol.com] Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" JC ["Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" ] CORRECTED Vine Offer: Joni & James Taylor 10/29/70 London [CDTraderJohn@a] CSN first album, CSN "Daylight Again" and "Court and Spark" ["Emily Grisk] RE: "Under the thumb of the maid" ["J.David Sapp" ] Blender's 500 [Rick ] RE: "Under the thumb of the maid" [Catherine McKay ] Trouble child - peacocks, maids, etc. [Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JONI ON HEADPHONES!! A WHOLE NEW WORLD!! Actually, I never listen to her any other way. Get yourself a pair of the highest quality headphones you can afford. You won't regret it! Sennheiser's HD 280 Professional headphones are excellent! Cheers, Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:23:01 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" Mark or Travis wrote: >Stephen Toogood wrote: > > >>I always though that the maid referred to a nurse in the sterilized >>room. >> >>Steve T >> >> >> > >This has always been my take on it. > > >The second verse gives more glimpses of this guy's illness. He feels >alone & unloved. People come & go and nothing lasts or turns out >right. He feels his humanity slipping away. Everyone he knows is >either critical of him or wants something from him. He breaks. Like >the waves at Malibu. > i think your take is very plausible.I just wouldn't describe it as an 'illness'. It seems to natural response to the pressures he is under(or she). If someone is being forced to be soemthing they are not, if their self is under such threat, then they will react. Labelling it as illness is part of the power play. imo. bw colin > >That's what I think, anyway. > >Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 04:54:38 EDT From: Chorando6@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #254 Nina simone Bless nina. My Father always promised me we would live in france. Baltimore ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 05:58:29 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: The second song on Court & Spark If memory serves, I don't want to use the "H" word in the heading... Anyway, what with all this talk of Trouble Child, what can I do but go back to C&S, and something that I've been aware of for a while, and which I find increasingly fascinating. Is it just me, or does Joni rather swallow the words "but not" on the last line of each verse ("but not like you/we love your/our freedom"), each time she sings it? I think this could be a brilliantly subtle device: the line doesn't change radically in meaning if those two words are left out; this reading would suggest that lovin' and freedom are equally attractive. Those two words, "but not", add a piquancy and shift the balance, to make it clear that freedom is actually the priority for Joni and her feckless lover. Letting my imagination, run away, I can just about imagine that Joni sang the line that way to fool listeners, or at least so that they didn't fully "get" the line first time; people covering the song might miss it too, so that Joni, sitting in the corner unnoticed, could give her companion a conspiratorial wink. It's like one of those little signs that painters put in a painting to make it harder to counterfeit their work. Ah, I believe that the exquisite arrangements and singing on this album have allowed me to pay less attention to the lyrics on the whole album, which are as brilliant as on the two albums that followed it. Azeem in London NP: Twisted (which sounds a little irritating now after what has gone before, despite her superb vocals and the ironic light the song throws on Trouble Child0 PS Why isn't there a credit for "acoustic guitar" in the musician name-checks? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 06:58:29 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: RE: "Under the thumb of the maid" I always read this line quite literally, as someone who feels so powerless they are even pushed around by the hired help. Like Rebecca and Mrs. Danvers. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 04:41:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: JONI ON HEADPHONES!! A WHOLE NEW WORLD!! Hey Ken! I think "Car On A Hill" is a GREAT jazz tune. And although Joni had been edging that way in earlier pieces, this is the one that announces her arrival. The opening bars musically & instrumetally are classic jazz. The lyrics are uncharacteristically simplstic, as far as our Joan goes. And I think Joni's singing is as easy and naturally jazzy as it had been up till then. Also, think of other great jazz singers doing this song - Nina Simone for one. Sorry we won't get to hear that one. I also love the "pan" as it goes in one ear and out the other ... putting a rare positive outlook on that terminology. I think this song would make another great standard and if not a standard, then I would love to hear more jazz efficianados cover this ... of the great ones left. This also is one of those I hear, not only at "Starbucks" but in my local chain supermarkets - AND often I might add! Ken thanks for bringing this one up and liked your term "pan" - whether its correct or not - it's perfect for my taste. Peace, Susan - --- KJHSF@aol.com wrote: > Car On A Hill's doppler effects are wonderful, Kev! And as the tones bend > and fall away, the effect is further enhanced by the sound moving from one > ear to the other, a technique that I think is called a "pan" in recording > lingo. (Does anyone know if that is the correct term?) > > When you listen to FTR in headphones, you can hear Joni's nails tapping > against the ivory keys during the instrumental break on Let the Wind Carry > Me, and again on Judgment of the Moon and Stars. Don't you just love those > surface noises? > > Has anyone noticed the little "whooooo" Joni gives at the very close of Two > Grey Rooms? I just noticed this the other day and I have been listening to > that record since the day it was released! > > Ken The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2040 05:59:23 +0000 From: emil thompson Subject: Call for an Acronyms help guide Ok maybe I'm just a bit slow or something but it takes me feckin ages to figure out what song or album some of them are referring to : STAS what is that ? could someone point me to a definitive list of them . Forgive me for being such a philistine. best emil A.F.A (another friggin acronym). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 11:14:25 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Call for an Acronyms help guide emil writes: > STAS > what is that ? could someone point me to a definitive list of them . > Here's the list that Les sends you when you first sub to the list. Of course people have added there own since then. {{{Catherine, this is for you too :~) }}} Happy Earth Day! Jimmy NJC - No Joni Content SJC - Some Joni/Small Joni Content VLJC - Very Little Joni Content IMHO - In My Humble Opinion (sometimes IMO) BTW - By The Way LOL - Laughing Out Loud ROTFL - Rolling On the Floor Laughing NP - Now Playing jimdle - a list member STAS - "Song To A Seagull" LOTC - "Ladies of the Canyon" FTR - "For The Roses" C&S - "Court and Spark" MOA - "Miles of Aisles" THOSL - "The Hissing of Summer Lawns" DJRD - "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter" SAL - "Shadows and Light" WTRF - "Wild Things Run Fast" CMIARS - "Chalk Mark In A Rainstorm" DED - "Dog Eat Dog" NRH - "Night Ride Home" TI - "Turbulent Indigo" TTT - "Taming the Tiger" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 15:34:33 +0000 From: anne-smith@att.net Subject: Case of You/Prince I have just listened to "A case of you" by Prince. Fabulous , he pares down the lyrics to a minimalist level and sings it with so much soulfulness. Better than Joni's version. No , what could be she sings this song so well, but 10/10 for a great re work . Does anyone have a view on this one ? Best wishes, Paul Headon From Wales Hey Paul, I have no opinion because i've never heard it. What album is it on? i love Prince and am not surprised that his version is so moving. Have a great day, Anne Sheridan Smith From Chicago ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:23:25 EDT From: CDTraderJohn@aol.com Subject: Vine Offer: Joni & James Taylor 10/29/70 London Please read this ENTIRE MESSAGE before responding to this offer. Please retain this e-mail for future reference. You will need it when you reoffer this Perma-Vine disc to the next recipient. This is a Perma-Vine offer for the wonderful Joni Mitchell & James Taylor show which was recorded by the BBC on 10/29/70. It contains all the songs from the original BBC transcription disc, plus some additional Aircheck tracks from the same performance. In order to participate in this Perma-Vine you MUST be able to burn a copy of the vine disc for yourself (you may NOT keep the vine disc). You must then reoffer the ORIGINAL VINE DISC on JMDL and forward it onto the next recipient within a few days of your receipt. It must be reofferred exclusively on the JMDL list. Should a point come when there is NO response on JMDL after TWO postings, you may offer this Perma-Vine disc to another group but you MUST post that information on JMDL so others will know of the change. ******** NOTE: In addition to being able to burn a copy for yourself, YOU FURTHER AGREE to burn at least one copy for a burnerless JMDL member and offer it through a posting on the group. You may, if you desire, offer copies to more than one person. ******** This show was recorded at peak moments in both artists' careers -- Joni working on the songs that would become "Blue" and James having success with the recently released "Sweet baby James". This is a very memorable performance. Here is the track information: 1) That Song About the Midway Joni 2) The Gallery Joni 3) Rainy Day Man James 4) Steamroller Blues James 5) The Priest Joni 6) Carey Joni 7) Carolina in My Mind James 8) California Joni + James 9) For Free Joni + James 10) The Circle Game Joni + James 11) You Can Close Your Eyes Joni + James 12) Hunter Joni 13) River Joni 14) My Old Man Joni 15) A Case of You Joni 16) Carey (unedited intro) Joni NOTE: This offer is being made as a Perma-Vine to ensure that all participants, no matter how far down the line, have the opportunity to obtain a clean, glitch-free copy of this wonderful show. If this offer goes well, I intend to offer more shows here in the future. I hope you enjoy it as much as I have! John Epstein CDTraderJohn@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:30:50 -0400 From: "Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" JC I thought this song is about being in therapy. If you read the words, there's a lot of medical imagery. For "maid" I think metaphorically: Psycho-therapy under the control of a woman who straightens up and helps to put things in order. Joni's usually more literal than that though. Two cents, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:35:57 GMT From: Ruth Davis Subject: Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" The phrase "under the thumb of the maid" also makes me think of the line from Sire of sorrow, "but now the janitors of shadowland flick their brooms at me." Like the subject of the song is so beat and so low that anyone can take potshots at him/her. Ruth ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 13:32:49 EDT From: CDTraderJohn@aol.com Subject: CORRECTED Vine Offer: Joni & James Taylor 10/29/70 London Obvious(?) lesson of the day: Don't hit the send button until you've COMPLETED your message! (see third + sixth paragraph, and P.S. for changes) Please read this ENTIRE MESSAGE before responding to this offer. Please retain this e-mail for future reference. You will need it when you reoffer this Perma-Vine disc to the next recipient. I will accept at least six Perma-Viners who respond to this message with their complete name and mailing address, their promise to reoffer the vine disc promptly, and their promise to burn at least one copy for a burnerless member. Depending upon the responses I receive, I will attempt to designate discs by region (US, Canada, Europe, etc.) in order to prevent long postal delays between viners. However, if, when you reoffer, you do not get a response from within your region, you may offer to a JMDL member in any region. This is a Perma-Vine offer for the wonderful Joni Mitchell & James Taylor show which was recorded by the BBC on 10/29/70. It contains all the songs from the original BBC transcription disc, plus some additional Aircheck tracks from the same performance. In order to participate in this Perma-Vine you MUST be able to burn a copy of the vine disc for yourself (you may NOT keep the vine disc). You must then reoffer the ORIGINAL VINE DISC on JMDL and forward it onto the next recipient within a few days of your receipt. It must be reofferred exclusively on the JMDL list. Should a point come when there is NO response on JMDL after TWO postings, you may offer this Perma-Vine disc to another group but you MUST post that information on JMDL so others will know of the change. ******** NOTE: In addition to being able to burn a copy for yourself, YOU FURTHER AGREE to burn at least one copy for a burnerless JMDL member and offer it through a posting on the group. You may, if you desire, offer copies to more than one person. You may also trade this show, but only after you have forwarded the ORIGINAL vine disc to the next recipient. ******** This show was recorded at peak moments in both artists' careers -- Joni working on the songs that would become "Blue" and James having success with the recently released "Sweet baby James". This is a very memorable performance. Here is the track information: 1) That Song About the Midway Joni 2) The Gallery Joni 3) Rainy Day Man James 4) Steamroller Blues James 5) The Priest Joni 6) Carey Joni 7) Carolina in My Mind James 8) California Joni + James 9) For Free Joni + James 10) The Circle Game Joni + James 11) You Can Close Your Eyes Joni + James 12) Hunter Joni 13) River Joni 14) My Old Man Joni 15) A Case of You Joni 16) Carey (unedited intro) Joni NOTE: This offer is being made as a Perma-Vine to ensure that all participants, no matter how far down the line, have the opportunity to obtain a clean, glitch-free copy of this wonderful show. If this offer goes well, I intend to offer more shows here in the future. I hope you enjoy it as much as I have! John Epstein CDTraderJohn@aol.com P.S. -- If anyone can provide me with cloned source discs, or very low generation copies, of early (pre '74) Joni show for future vines, I'd sure appreciate it! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:51:18 -0500 From: "Emily Griskavich" Subject: CSN first album, CSN "Daylight Again" and "Court and Spark" I found the first CSN album in my dad's tape collection when I was a junior in high school and borrowed it until I moved out. When I did move out, I went to Best Buy and bought my own CD of it. That was almost four years ago and I still listen to it often. "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes" is my favorite, but "Guinnevere" is also excellent. I decided not to bring his copy of "Daylight Again" back with me. It was a little too adult-contemporary for me. However, I really loved "Too Much Love to Hide" and "Since I Met You," even though their lyrics are really trite. Dad also copied "Court and Spark" for me, and it's excellent. "Raised on Robbery" is my favorite. - -Emily ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 14:12:24 -0500 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: RE: "Under the thumb of the maid" Mark E: I never tried to analyze the song until T'log. I agree with Mark's take on it. Plus this line: "Dragon shining with all values known Dazzling you-keeping you from your own Where is the lion in you to defy him " I see the dragon as hallucinations or delusions which trouble child can't defy. But now I see this kind of Chinese New Year thing going on: dragons, lions :~) peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 15:12:59 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" In a message dated 4/22/2003 3:07:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, davidsapp@peoplepc.com writes: > I see the dragon as hallucinations or delusions which trouble child can't > defy. But now I see this kind of Chinese New Year thing going on: dragons, > lions :~) > David Crosby is a Leo !!! Joni, would you please return my phone call and tell me who "Trouble Child" is about? Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:27:47 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" re: Trouble Child Some things that point to Crosby: "dragon shining with all values known" could refer to opiates- a common reference "where is the lion in you to defy 'em" Crosby is a Leo and looks like one! "the peacock is afraid to parade" Peacock image in Guinnevere "under the thumb of a maid" could refer to Crosby's inability to get past the death of his lady. Could also be an oblique reference to drugs. "Lady" is a nickname for cocaine, which he was involved with (to put it mildly) "the waves at Malibu" "a river of changing faces looking for an ocean" the ocean figures heavily in Crosby's life and songs "why does it come as such a shock to know you really have no one" another reference to Jan's death? The song does seem to refer to someone hospitalized, I don't know if this relates to Crosby's history or not. It's been years since I read the book. Sherlock Remote. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:38:35 -0700 From: Rick Subject: Blender's 500 The current Blender magazine has a list of "The 500 CDs you must own before you die." Joni made the cut with "Blue" and "Court And Spark". However, in the accompanying article "13 CDs to not touch with a ten-foot pole" she also scores with "Travelogue". Rick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 19:21:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: "Under the thumb of the maid" --- "J.David Sapp" wrote: > > I see the dragon as hallucinations or delusions > which trouble child can't > defy. But now I see this kind of Chinese New Year > thing going on: dragons, > lions :~) Funny you should mention that. I was thinking of Chinese New Year too and wondering whether the TC was born in a year of the dragon. I think of the Maid as being something more symbolic, and not "la bonne" who cleans the room. To me, the Maid is perhaps the virginal, well-behaved meek adn mild, side of the TC currently controlling the other rowdier aspects of TC's personality (with the aid of Rx drugs, of course.) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 00:39:41 +0000 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: Joni mentions in "Performing Songwriter," "The New York Times" "Performing Songwriter" has shown up at my local newsstand for the first time in the form of the March/April 2003 issue (it is published 8 times a year). One of the articles is about Larry Klein, and is billed on the cover "Larry Klein and the production secrets of Joni Mitchell," and in the index, "Klein on 20 years of working with musicians including Shawn Colvin and Joni Mitchell." The Tools of the Trade department page on Guitars features larry Carlton, and includes: " ... he points to a song from one of his most memorable sessions, Joni Mitchell's 'Court and Spark.' Carlton says, 'I think there's a very good example of how to think like an arranger. When Joni sings, "Help me, I think I'm falling," I do a rake across the strings, and it makes her next phrase - -- "in love again" -- really cool becuse she has a chrod to sit down on.' " And one of the Features (the Klein piece is a Feature, too) is "Rosanne Cash, the Voice of a Writer." Rosanne lists five albums as essention listening: "Blue" (Joni Mitchell), "With the Beatles" and "Revolver" (both: Beatles), "The Essential Johnny Cash" (Johny Cash) and "Kind of Blue (Miles Davis). The Sunday, April 13, New York Times, Section 2, Arts and Leisure, contained a review -- by David Hajdu, author of "Positively 4th Street" (the book about Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, Mimi Baez Farina and Richard Farina) -- of "A Mighty Wind," a mockumentary which does for folk music what "Spinal Tap" did for heavy-metal rock. Hajdu's review describes the three musical groups depicted in the movie and their real-life prototypes, and then names three waves of authentic musicians in the folk scene whom the movie doesn't acknowledge. Joni is among those in the third wave (along with Dylan, Baez and others). Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 15:55:30 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" Great analysis Randy but: > another reference to Jan's death? Jan is his wife and quite alive and well! Christine is the one he lost. Crosby has said that "Guinnivere" is about three different ladies - the speculation is Christine, Joni and the other is a mystery not yet revealed. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 22:42:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Trouble child - peacocks, maids, etc. Further to my speculation about the "peacock" and the "maid" as archetypes of some kind, possibly Jungian or Tarot-related, I did a search and came up with a few things to support this (even if Joni didn't mean it this way, it's still kind of cool): Juno (in the Roman mythology, or Hera in the Greek) was both the sister and the wife of Jupiter (or Zeus in Greek) (talk about family ties). She is, among other things, the goddess of marriage. Her favourite bird was the peacock - according to fable, the peacock asked Juno to make him special so he'd stand out from the other birds. Juno granted his wish by giving him the beautiful tail feathers we all know. In return, however, the peacock had to give something up - his ability to fly as other birds could. In a Tarot deck is a card called the High Priestess. She is often represented by the Egyptian goddess Isis, or the Greek Artemis - Artemis is a huntress and a virgin. In some Tarot decks, instead of Artemis, the goddess Juno is used to symbolize the High Priestess. Tarot uses archetypes and symbols. So does Jung. If the peacock is afraid to parade, maybe it's because the maid (Juno) keeps him on a short leash (nice tail, no can fly.) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #140 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)