From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #139 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, April 22 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 139 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni ->Joel -> David ? 100% JC ["kakki" ] Re swishing chippendales SJC ["mike pritchard" ] JONI ON HEADPHONES!! A WHOLE NEW WORLD!! [Cactustree78@aol.com] A Case of Prince ["Paul Headon" ] Blue TV performance ["Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Blue TV performance [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Crosby, Guinnevere and Joni [Susan McNamara ] re: Crosby, Guinnevere, and Joni ["mia ortlieb" ] Re: Blue TV performance ["Christopher Treacy" ] Re: swishing chippendales SJC [dsk ] Re: TV Show "On Tour: Joni Mitchell" [Randy Remote ] Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" ["Donna Binkley" ] Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" [Catherine McKay ] Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" ["Stephen Toogood" ] additional footage of Woman of Heart and Mind ["Suze Cameron" ] Re: Crosby & Joni on his first solo album [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: Crosby & Joni on his first solo album [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: Crosby & Joni on his first solo album [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: additional footage of Woman of Heart and Mind ["kerry" ] RE: "Under the thumb of the maid" ["Heather" ] Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" ["kakki" ] Re: JONI ON HEADPHONES!! A WHOLE NEW WORLD!! [KJHSF@aol.com] Today in History: April 22 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: April 22 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 00:58:16 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Joni ->Joel -> David ? 100% JC Randy wrote: > All of the songs you mentioned are in alternate tunings. I'm pretty > sure he was already playing with alternate tunings pre-Joni, while > still in the Byrds. I have no doubt that working with Joni inspired > him to go further into alt-tuning land. It seems like a lot of "chicken or the egg" mythology has grown up around the Crosby-Joni alt tuning question. I think they both came to it independently and then shared their finds with each other later. I also recall reading something somewhat definitive that said Crosby started using the alts tunings while with the Byrds. I think Joel Bernstein was too young at that time ('64-65) to have been hanging out with them. Wasn't Joel only around 17 or so when he met Joni? No doubt Joel showed them both some new tricks, though. Kakki, cravenly biting the ear off a chocolate bunny ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:09:07 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re swishing chippendales SJC >>OK, I'll play. My guesses: 1. Sounds like Raymond Chandler to me 2. The Long Goodbye 3. HOSL... and something else? 4. Seeing superficial lushness and the emptiness/deadness underneath are similar, but except for the lawn sprinklers and "no one sits in" idea the details don't match, even though the feelings do. Maybe Joni saw the early 70's Altman film "The Long Goodbye" and got some ideas for HOSL from that. Or maybe she read those passages, although she's said she doesn't read much. Debra Shea, going with my hunches this Easter evening<< Close, but no cigar... mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 06:38:32 -0400 From: Cactustree78@aol.com Subject: JONI ON HEADPHONES!! A WHOLE NEW WORLD!! Hello all..I hope you all enjoyed your holidays!!! I bought myself an easter present..Headphones for my stereo..(The "old school kind" that fit over your ear..just to clarify) Anyway its like an epiphany...This weekend I heard things in Joni songs i've never heard before...Example...Car on A Hill.. At the very end..You can hear what sounds like a car passin by..Im sure its actually a horn(meaning a woodwind) but the intention was it to sound like a car..And it zooms from one ear to the other..Very cool!! Also..all throughout STAS you hear all kinds of backround noize ...ie..grumblin and you can really hear the pedals of the piano..Maybe my ears are shot or maybe my "a d d " forces me to ignore such minute audioacions(i made up a word here to sound technical :P) all I know is I can highly reccomend headphones to anyone who wants every inch of Jonis musical loveliness ...Again I hope you all enjoyed you respective holidays :)!!!! Spring has Sprun yall but knowin jersey itll snow tomorrow and kill my tulips( i named one joni's night ride cause its purple and black..even my tuilpis have joni content!!) !!! I digress..I hope you have a great day and a great week..****kev*** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:26:31 +0100 From: "Paul Headon" Subject: A Case of Prince Hi all, I have just listened to "A case of you" by Prince. Fabulous , he pares down the lyrics to a minimalist level and sings it with so much soulfulness. Better than Joni's version. No , what could be she sings this song so well, but 10/10 for a great re work . Does anyone have a view on this one ? Best wishes, Paul Headon From Wales - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 18/04/2003 [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 08:06:01 -0400 From: "Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Blue TV performance I thought it was from a Carnegie Hall performance. Bad news: To my knowledge, there are zero audience recordings available of those nights. (2/1/1969 & 2/23/1972) Good news: Reprise was there at least one of those nights and captured the audio for a planned live concert. It's in a vault somewhere. I'm pretty sure what we saw was film, not a tv performance. I don't know if there's film of the *whole* thing or just bits. Maybe someday, some way, we'll get some "new old stock". I just don't think anyone would be interested in seeing a new, full-length, Joni video from 1969. Do you? Who wants to see dumb old "Blue" anyway? What's that? You do? And you? And you? You? And that group at the door? And a line around the block? :) Bobby seems to be filling a Desire with the "Bootleg" series on Columbia..... Lama >>>>I'm assuming that the performance of BLUE on the Joni American Masters documentary is an outtake from the BBC show. Any chance of an unedited version of that video leaking out?>>>> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 08:08:47 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Blue TV performance Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: >I thought it was from a Carnegie Hall performance. Bad news: To my knowledge, there are zero audience recordings available of those >nights. (2/1/1969 & 2/23/1972) > Not true, thankfully. I have 2/23/72 and have seen 2/1/69 on other's lists. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:03:16 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Crosby, Guinnevere and Joni Dear Bobsart: Guinnevere is a classy song, but I've never played it. I looked at the two tabs on Olga and they both confer with the EBDGAD tuning. Alas, there's no way to tell if this is right because the words "Howard Wright" don't appear under the tabbed by listing. :-) I am copying this note to the Wanderer list to see if any of our stalwart tuning experts want to chime in on this dilemma. Thanks, sue At 9:25 AM -0400 4/20/03, Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: >Following up on Lama's post: > >I have listened to CSN (the CD) a few times since Christmas, after >not having listened in almost 30 years (I had the album, and played >it to death for a couple of years after it came out in 1969). During >that time, Guinnevere was not one of my favorites on the record, to >say the least (but remeber, I quit on Joni's new work for a long, >long time when I could not "get" THOSL or Hejira - 'ugh' for the >umpteenth time). > >Anyway, I have now decided that I like this song the best on the >record (with Wooden Ships a close second - and I have always loved >the record). I think this is again because my ears have gotten >better, finally. It occurs to me that this is a song that could hold >its own in a collection of Joni's best work - high praise to David. >And it makes me wonder if maybe David did have an influence on >Joni's music. > >Can any of you guitar tab masters tell me what the tuning is for >Guinnevere ? I will try fiddling with it in EBDGAD, on the off >chance that that works. It does not sound like standard tuning to my >ears, but I could easily be wrong. > >Bobsart > >Lama wrote > >>Did Joel show David open tunings? >> >>On the sleeve notes of a 1993 re-release of "Crosby, Stills and >>Nash", Raymond Foye wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>> >>>From its hypnotic opening notes, David Crosby's "Guinnevere" >>>creates a space unlike any other in rock music. "When all my >>>friends >>were listening to Elvis Presley, I was listening to 1950s West >>Coast jazz," Crosby notes. Later, Crosby's divergent musical >>sensibility was further inspired by a close association with Joni >>Mitchell, whose unusual repertoire of guitar tunings heightened >>his increasingly oblique musical sense, taking him another step >>away from standard rock formulas. >> >> >>Fellow musician Joel Bernstein recalls that for Crosby, "the >>discovery of non-standard tunings was the opening the little door in >>'Alice in Wonderland'." By literally rearranging the tones on his >>guitar (the tuning is EBDGAD), Crosby tapped into a creative >>well-spring that produced "Deja Vu" and "Song With No Words," >>within a very short space of time.>>>>>>>> >> >>checking in from the NJC digest, >>Lama - -- Susan McNamara Assistant to the Dean of Students Cornell University 401 Willard Straight Hall Ithaca, NY 14853 Voice: (607) 255-1115 FAX: (607) 255-8082 E-Mail:sem8@cornell.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:19:38 -0500 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: Crosby, Guinnevere, and Joni Bobsart wrote: <> The guitar tuning book that I have does say the correct tuning for "Guinnevere" is "EBDGAD." I haven't tried it yet, although it is my favorite CSN song. I saw Crosby perform "Guinnevere" a couple of years ago, and I tell ya, that man's voice just keeps getting better with age! Some of Joni's tuning are in this book also; however, it appears they have the wrong tuning for "Free Man in Paris." Mia npimh - Radiohead - Exit music for a film (I actually heard the intro to this song on a PBS war documentary) _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:34:10 -0400 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: Re: Blue TV performance It's from The Old Grey Whistle Test, New Victoria Theater, London 1974. I have both versions. I got the first from Wally B in 1995, and the second I got from Ashara 2 years ago. It's a BBC broadcast. Cheers, Chris, who also has Carnegie 2.23.72 and wants the debut concert BAD. (grin) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" To: "_JMDL" Cc: Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 8:06 AM Subject: Blue TV performance > I thought it was from a Carnegie Hall performance. Bad news: To my knowledge, there are zero audience recordings available of those > nights. (2/1/1969 & 2/23/1972) > > Good news: Reprise was there at least one of those nights and captured the audio for a planned live concert. It's in a vault > somewhere. > > I'm pretty sure what we saw was film, not a tv performance. I don't know if there's film of the *whole* thing or just bits. > > Maybe someday, some way, we'll get some "new old stock". I just don't think anyone would be interested in seeing a new, > full-length, Joni video from 1969. Do you? Who wants to see dumb old "Blue" anyway? > > What's that? You do? And you? And you? You? And that group at the door? And a line around the block? :) > > Bobby seems to be filling a Desire with the "Bootleg" series on Columbia..... > > Lama > > > >>>>I'm assuming that the performance of BLUE on the Joni American Masters > documentary is an outtake from the BBC show. Any chance of an unedited > version of that video leaking out?>>>> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 13:58:37 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: swishing chippendales SJC kakki wrote: > > > OK crew, four questions > > 1. who wrote these lines?(Easy) > Sounds like Joan Didion (wonderful) > > 2. which book? > Sounds like "Slouching Towards Bethlehem" > > 3. do these two extracts remind you of any recently-discussed Joni songs? > Hissing all the way > > 4. do you think Joni has read the book and used the quotes? > Yep! That book is 30 years old? Pre-HOSL? Wow. Time flies. There have been many times when I've picked it up at bookstores, looked through it, almost bought it, but never did, so haven't read any Joan Didion. I like the rhythm and melancholy of Mike's quotes, though, so if that Ms. Didion, it's time to give her a try. Debra Shea NP: The McCabes, Happen This Way from "Live at Paddy Reilly's", a great NYC Irish bar where I spent last Saturday evening with The McCabes themselves; can anyone not smile when listening to Irish jigs? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:27:31 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: TV Show "On Tour: Joni Mitchell" It's "Painting With Words And Music" Tues April 22, 10AM & 3PM EST on Trio They've run this on Trio many times. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that Trio will show Joni's BBC show one of these days. In the past few weeks they have showed the 1970 era BBC concerts by Neil Young and James Taylor-both were fantastic and in great quality. RR dsk wrote: > According to tvguide.com, this is a 60-minute show that's going to be on > in NYC this Tuesday at 10 am and 3 pm on Trio, a channel I don't get. > Does anyone know what this is? There's no description other than > "Featured: Joni Mitchell." > > Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 14:44:32 -0400 From: "Isaac Chase" Subject: "Under the thumb of the maid" Does anyone have any thoughts about what this means? thanks. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 13:55:33 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" I always took it to mean that in addition to the parents, "the maid" was a nanny type who also watched after the "Trouble Child"...or maybe the maid had info. she could spill if TC didn't stay in line. The song always felt to me like words written by frustrated teenager who's trying to break out of her shell, but she really can't do that until she is old enough to leave her family home.... They open and close you And they talk like they know you - They don't know you They're friends and they're foes too Trouble Child breakin like the waves at Malibu db >>> "Isaac Chase" 4/21/2003 1:44:32 PM >>> Does anyone have any thoughts about what this means? thanks. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail This message has been scanned by the E250. This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 15:57:26 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" I could be wrong, but I thought the song Trouble Child was about Joni in therapy, which would explain the sterilized room-I imagine that therapy in the early 70's may have had a more hospitalized setting than it would today. I think Joni is talking about herself as a peacock afraid to parade-as if she's at a low point and can't deal with attention. As for the maid--Joni has had some pretty well discussed disputes with her maid, or maids, as the case may be. That said, I love Trouble Child. I have an especially great memory of listening to it while strolling Santa Monica beach at sunset and watching the waves roll in. And the way the music mimics the sound of crashing surf during the little break from chorus to verse is musical perfection. Breaking like the waves at Malibu.... Ken ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 16:08:35 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" I know we talked about "Troubled Child" over a year ago. Some thought it was written about James Taylor, but I think Kakki had read something where Joni had Crosby in mind when she wrote the song. Kakki Help!!! :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 15:11:05 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" Good thoughts Ken. When I was listening to this and many of her albums at the first, i was indeed a young teen. Maybe that's why those were the kinds of thoughts that came to mind for me about this and many of her songs. Or maybe at 41 I still think like a teen! ha ha just kidding... Happy to start again using this list for what it was (mostly) made for. Join in everybody LET'S HAVE A NEW JONI THREAD Woo hooo!! love yall, db >>> 4/21/2003 2:57:26 PM >>> I could be wrong, but I thought the song Trouble Child was about Joni in therapy, which would explain the sterilized room-I imagine that therapy in the early 70's may have had a more hospitalized setting than it would today. I think Joni is talking about herself as a peacock afraid to parade-as if she's at a low point and can't deal with attention. As for the maid--Joni has had some pretty well discussed disputes with her maid, or maids, as the case may be. That said, I love Trouble Child. I have an especially great memory of listening to it while strolling Santa Monica beach at sunset and watching the waves roll in. And the way the music mimics the sound of crashing surf during the little break from chorus to verse is musical perfection. Breaking like the waves at Malibu.... Ken This message has been scanned by the E250. This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 16:12:42 -0400 From: "anon anon" Subject: Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" >From: KJHSF@aol.com >Reply-To: KJHSF@aol.com >To: icnh@hotmail.com >CC: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 15:57:26 EDT As for the maid--Joni >has had some pretty well discussed disputes with her maid, or maids, as the >case may be. > > that was in the 80's though,long after "trouble child". _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 16:17:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" --- Isaac Chase wrote: > Does anyone have any thoughts about > what this means? > thanks. > "The peacock is afraid to parade You're under the thumb of the maid". For no rational reason whatsoever, both the Peacock and the Maid sound to me some kind of archetypes. I haven't studied psychology at all, so I wouldn't know. They just "sound" that way to me. Maybe something Jungian, or even a Tarot kind of thing (not that I'm aware of anything called either The Peacock or The Maid in Tarot either. Maiden, mother, crone? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:31:27 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" could she be referring to TC's mother? Itcould be a way of describing a certain sort of mother-house proud tyrant who spends her life controlling people and cleaning.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:04:24 +0100 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" I always though that the maid referred to a nurse in the sterilized room. Steve T - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Isaac Chase" To: Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 7:44 PM Subject: "Under the thumb of the maid" > Does anyone have any thoughts about what this means? > thanks. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:51:49 -0400 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: additional footage of Woman of Heart and Mind I am sure everyone knows this but check out the additional video on this site: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/mitchell_j_footage.html My favorite comment is about happiness being a bonus. Joni says "Happiness is a place to rest your nervous system until the next on slaught". You gotta love our Joan. Suze n.p. Carrying Cathy, Ben Folds ____________________________________________________________ Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:54:36 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: "Under the thumb of the maid" My simple thought ... this phrase might have to do with inner conflicts. "The peacock is afraid to parade" - being afraid to let ones self go, believe in who you really are, being afraid to be yourself and be proud even though it does not coincide with what "normal" people think. "You're under the thumb of the maid" - society, people around you have made you think that you must keep yourself in order. You must live in a world on constraints. Just how it interprets for me. Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 4:18 PM To: Isaac Chase; Joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" --- Isaac Chase wrote: > Does anyone have any thoughts about > what this means? > thanks. > "The peacock is afraid to parade You're under the thumb of the maid". For no rational reason whatsoever, both the Peacock and the Maid sound to me some kind of archetypes. I haven't studied psychology at all, so I wouldn't know. They just "sound" that way to me. Maybe something Jungian, or even a Tarot kind of thing (not that I'm aware of anything called either The Peacock or The Maid in Tarot either. Maiden, mother, crone? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:20:43 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Crosby & Joni on his first solo album << From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: Joni ->Joel -> David ? 100% JC >>>This link (repeated at the bottom) reminded me of Crosby's album "If I Could Only Remember My Name", which I listened to at the time of its release (1971, right after "Deja Vu"); I'd forgotten all about it; I am buying it immediately. Reviewers on Amazon.com mention Joni (and others) appear as guests. Can anyone describe Joni's work on this album while I'm waiting for my CD to arrive?<<< Dan; Joni is given no specific credit on the liner notes (at least on the CD; maybe the vinyl has more extensive notes) but in the authorized biography, Crosby, Stills & Nash, )1984, text by Dave Zimmer, Crosby says, "I don't think it's right to call it a solo album, because I got an awful lot of help from a lot of my friends." It then names many of the contributors and adds "...were part of this community of musicians, which also included Joni Mitchell, Graham Nash, and Neil Young." Then, "...led by Crosby's vocals and modal, open-tuned twelve-string guitar, Garcia added lead guitar phrases; Casady wandered freely with his bass; Joni sang harmony, and Neil squeezed out some of his most frail-sounding cries. This was spontaneous ensemble playing that worked." I have to tell you that I had heard parts of this album when it was first released and then forgot about it over the years. Every time I saw this record at a flea market or garage sale, I passed it by 'cause I thought I already owned it. One day, I was in a used record store in the Village and the owner had this album on; I knew I recognized the singer but couldn't identify the album. When he told me what it was, I went home to dig out my copy. Sadly, I didn't own it and immediately went out and bought the only thing I could find: the CD. It's a fine album; a bit uneven but, never-the-less, a real treasure. I especially love "Laughing", my pick for one of Crosby's all-time best compositions; it's got sensitive lyrics, lots of feeling, great arrangement and unusual phrasing. The biography calls it "a philosophical 'revelation' of sorts." "Orleans" contains some fabulous, haunting harmonies. Overall, I think it's the type of album to plop down in a comfortable chair with, the lights dimmed and plenty of peace & quiet, so you can fully appreciate it. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:24:12 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Crosby & Joni on his first solo album << From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: Joni ->Joel -> David ? 100% JC >>>This link (repeated at the bottom) reminded me of Crosby's album "If I Could Only Remember My Name", which I listened to at the time of its release (1971, right after "Deja Vu"); I'd forgotten all about it; I am buying it immediately. Reviewers on Amazon.com mention Joni (and others) appear as guests. Can anyone describe Joni's work on this album while I'm waiting for my CD to arrive?<<< Dan; Joni is given no specific credit on the liner notes (at least on the CD; maybe the vinyl has more extensive notes) but in the authorized biography, Crosby, Stills & Nash, )1984, text by Dave Zimmer, Crosby says, "I don't think it's right to call it a solo album, because I got an awful lot of help from a lot of my friends." It then names many of the contributors and adds "...were part of this community of musicians, which also included Joni Mitchell, Graham Nash, and Neil Young." Then, "...led by Crosby's vocals and modal, open-tuned twelve-string guitar, Garcia added lead guitar phrases; Casady wandered freely with his bass; Joni sang harmony, and Neil squeezed out some of his most frail-sounding cries. This was spontaneous ensemble playing that worked." I have to tell you that I had heard parts of this album when it was first released and then forgot about it over the years. Every time I saw this record at a flea market or garage sale, I passed it by 'cause I thought I already owned it. One day, I was in a used record store in the Village and the owner had this album on; I knew I recognized the singer but couldn't identify the album. When he told me what it was, I went home to dig out my copy. Sadly, I didn't own it and immediately went out and bought the only thing I could find: the CD. It's a fine album; a bit uneven but, never-the-less, a real treasure. I especially love "Laughing", my pick for one of Crosby's all-time best compositions; it's got sensitive lyrics, lots of feeling, great arrangement and unusual phrasing. The biography calls it "a philosophical 'revelation' of sorts." "Orleans" contains some fabulous, haunting harmonies. Overall, I think it's the type of album to plop down in a comfortable chair with, the lights dimmed and plenty of peace & quiet, so you can fully appreciate it. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:39:20 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Crosby & Joni on his first solo album << From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: Joni ->Joel -> David ? 100% JC >>>This link (repeated at the bottom) reminded me of Crosby's album "If I Could Only Remember My Name", which I listened to at the time of its release (1971, right after "Deja Vu"); I'd forgotten all about it; I am buying it immediately. Reviewers on Amazon.com mention Joni (and others) appear as guests. Can anyone describe Joni's work on this album while I'm waiting for my CD to arrive?<<< Dan; Joni is given no specific credit on the liner notes (at least on the CD; maybe the vinyl has more extensive notes) but in the authorized biography, Crosby, Stills & Nash, )1984, text by Dave Zimmer, Crosby says, "I don't think it's right to call it a solo album, because I got an awful lot of help from a lot of my friends." It then names many of the contributors and adds "...were part of this community of musicians, which also included Joni Mitchell, Graham Nash, and Neil Young." Then, "...led by Crosby's vocals and modal, open-tuned twelve-string guitar, Garcia added lead guitar phrases; Casady wandered freely with his bass; Joni sang harmony, and Neil squeezed out some of his most frail-sounding cries. This was spontaneous ensemble playing that worked." I have to tell you that I had heard parts of this album when it was first released and then forgot about it over the years. Every time I saw this record at a flea market or garage sale, I passed it by 'cause I thought I already owned it. One day, I was in a used record store in the Village and the owner had this album on; I knew I recognized the singer but couldn't identify the album. When he told me what it was, I went home to dig out my copy. Sadly, I didn't own it and immediately went out and bought the only thing I could find: the CD. It's a fine album; a bit uneven but, never-the-less, a real treasure. I especially love "Laughing", my pick for one of Crosby's all-time best compositions; it's got sensitive lyrics, lots of feeling, great arrangement and unusual phrasing. The biography calls it "a philosophical 'revelation' of sorts." "Orleans" contains some fabulous, haunting harmonies. Overall, I think it's the type of album to plop down in a comfortable chair with, the lights dimmed and plenty of peace & quiet, so you can fully appreciate it. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:41:28 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Re: additional footage of Woman of Heart and Mind Sue wrote: > My favorite comment is about happiness being a bonus. > Joni says "Happiness is a place to rest your nervous system until the next on slaught". You gotta love our Joan. I like that a lot, but thank god she never used it in a song! Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:54:21 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" Stephen Toogood wrote: > I always though that the maid referred to a nurse in the sterilized > room. > > Steve T > This has always been my take on it. To me the song is about a guy in some kind of mental hospital. The sterilized room where they let you be lazy. You're attitude's all wrong and you gotta change. He's weak and spacey (thorazine shuffle?). He's reached the point where life is unbearable but suicide is not an option (you can't live life and you can't leave it). He's too afraid and too weak to put on a show of bravdo or strength (the peacock is afraid to parade). He is under the control of the nurse (like Nurse Ratched in 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest'). He's too needy to give love but knows how much he needs it. The doctors and therapists pry into his psyche and give him reasons for his feelings and behavior (they open and close you and they talk like they know you). But he has not developed complete trust in them (they don't know you. they're friends and they're foes too). The second verse gives more glimpses of this guy's illness. He feels alone & unloved. People come & go and nothing lasts or turns out right. He feels his humanity slipping away. Everyone he knows is either critical of him or wants something from him. He breaks. Like the waves at Malibu. That's what I think, anyway. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:14:01 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: "Under the thumb of the maid" I initially translated Troubled Child like you did Mark when I first heard it long ago. I can't help but think, though, that Joni is describing a moment or period of depression where there is this internal conversation going on to almost a fit of madness. Whether it is Joni personalizing or not ... I don't know. Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Mark or Travis Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 10:54 PM To: Stephen Toogood; Joni List Subject: Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" Stephen Toogood wrote: > I always though that the maid referred to a nurse in the sterilized > room. > > Steve T > This has always been my take on it. To me the song is about a guy in some kind of mental hospital. The sterilized room where they let you be lazy. You're attitude's all wrong and you gotta change. He's weak and spacey (thorazine shuffle?). He's reached the point where life is unbearable but suicide is not an option (you can't live life and you can't leave it). He's too afraid and too weak to put on a show of bravdo or strength (the peacock is afraid to parade). He is under the control of the nurse (like Nurse Ratched in 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest'). He's too needy to give love but knows how much he needs it. The doctors and therapists pry into his psyche and give him reasons for his feelings and behavior (they open and close you and they talk like they know you). But he has not developed complete trust in them (they don't know you. they're friends and they're foes too). The second verse gives more glimpses of this guy's illness. He feels alone & unloved. People come & go and nothing lasts or turns out right. He feels his humanity slipping away. Everyone he knows is either critical of him or wants something from him. He breaks. Like the waves at Malibu. That's what I think, anyway. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:48:32 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: "Under the thumb of the maid" Jimmy wrote: > I know we talked about "Troubled Child" over a year ago. Some thought it was > written about James Taylor, but I think Kakki had read something where Joni > had Crosby in mind when she wrote the song. Oh how I wish all my hard cover books were scanned and searchable on the computer! ;-) I can't recall where I read this but think it somewhere in one of CSN or Joni's bios. It made sense when you go back and read Crosby's wild and troubled history back at that time. I've also read that a lot of his descent down the dark ladder was precipitated by the sudden death of his girlfriend Christine Hinton. He could not get over the loss for years so maybe the "maid" (or "maiden") could represent her. He could be under the "thumb" of her memory and he cannot get better until he deals with it. I'll try to find where I read about the TC/Crosby connection. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 01:26:24 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: JONI ON HEADPHONES!! A WHOLE NEW WORLD!! Car On A Hill's doppler effects are wonderful, Kev! And as the tones bend and fall away, the effect is further enhanced by the sound moving from one ear to the other, a technique that I think is called a "pan" in recording lingo. (Does anyone know if that is the correct term?) When you listen to FTR in headphones, you can hear Joni's nails tapping against the ivory keys during the instrumental break on Let the Wind Carry Me, and again on Judgment of the Moon and Stars. Don't you just love those surface noises? Has anyone noticed the little "whooooo" Joni gives at the very close of Two Grey Rooms? I just noticed this the other day and I have been listening to that record since the day it was released! Ken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 02:02:06 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: April 22 1974: Joni performed at the New Victoria Theater in London - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 02:02:06 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: April 22 On April 22 the following items were published: 1983: "Subject - Henry Lewy" - BAM (Biography) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=590 2000: "An All-Star Tribute to Joni Mitchell" - Variety (Review - Appearance) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1041 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #139 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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