From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #133 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, April 16 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 133 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- joni reference [colin ] RE: Now, how is it Nambla & Joni are related?? ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Now, how is it Nambla & Joni are related?? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Now, how is it Nambla & Joni are related?? [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: how is Ginsberg, Dylan, & Joni are related?? [SoulQuest7@aol.com] Re: I's A Muggin' ["chuty001" ] re Kids and Joni ["Lucy Hone" ] RE: how is Ginsberg, Dylan, & Joni are related?? ["Robert Argento" ] Joni and My Media ["Jerry Notaro" ] The Kinks' song about the suburbs (tangential JC) ["Timothy Spong" ] Re: Daniel Lanois ["PAUL PETERSON" ] Re: "Exxon Blue" ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: I's A Muggin' ["Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: I's A Muggin ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: I's A Muggin ["Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: all this sorrow isn't really sad [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: Still more on DTY [PassScribe@aol.com] RE: Daniel Lanois ["Heather" ] Re: I's A Muggin' [quiltbear ] Today in History: April 16 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: April 16 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 09:27:53 +0100 From: colin Subject: joni reference William shrugged.'Oh, we've always been here. This used ot be a commune - - California-dreaming hippies, mind-altering drugs, Joni Mitchell music. Our Parents were hippies. We were isolated from other ways to live and think, so we depended on each toher. My brother and I are unbelievably close. But we're nothing really. we're here to serve the Sire.' Vilets Are Blue(C2001) James Patterson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 07:07:51 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: Now, how is it Nambla & Joni are related?? Can anyone connect Joni to NAMBLA? Six degrees of separation... Victor, just waking up and in need of coffee! Victor Johnson waytoblu@mindspring.com Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" this spring! Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 07:33:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Gertrude Stein of music SJC --- kakki wrote: I recall > Joni saying in an interview that she always played > with the boys in the > neighborhood from early childhood (but also had her > friends Sharon and > Betsy). Yes, but don't forget Gail and Louise in their push-up brassieres. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 07:56:23 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Now, how is it Nambla & Joni are related?? In a message dated 4/15/2003 9:07:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: > Can anyone connect Joni to NAMBLA? Six degrees of > separation... From a Ginsberg Bio: "In the early sixties, Ginsberg threw himself into the hippie scene. He and Timothy Leary worked together to publicize Leary's new discovery, the psychedelic drug LSD, and Ginsberg attempted to turn on every famous cultural figure in his address book, including Willem De Kooning, Franz Kline, Dizzy Gillespie, Thelonius Monk, Robert Lowell and Jack Kerouac..." And Dizzy went on to record a nice version of "Both Sides Now". Bob NP: Joni, "Moon At The Window" KSCA 1994 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:51:19 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Now, how is it Nambla & Joni are related?? In a message dated 4/15/2003 7:58:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > And Dizzy went on to record a nice version of "Both Sides Now". > Good job Mr. Muller! I knew if anyone could six degrees Joni with NAMBLA, it would be you. I must admit I never had heard of NAMBLA, and when I saw it appear in the subject line, I thought it was an acronym for a Joni song........No Apologies something something something. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 09:03:23 EDT From: SoulQuest7@aol.com Subject: Re: how is Ginsberg, Dylan, & Joni are related?? In a message dated 4/15/2003 4:57:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > <<<<"In the early sixties, Ginsberg threw himself into the hippie scene. He > and Timothy Leary worked together to publicize Leary's new discovery, the > psychedelic drug LSD, and Ginsberg attempted to turn on every famous > cultural figure in his address book, including Willem De Kooning, Franz > Kline, Dizzy Gillespie, Thelonius Monk, Robert Lowell and Jack Kerouac...">> > I would go further than this. I wouldn't say Ginsberg just "threw himself into" in the hippie movement, I would say he was a prime articulator of hippie spirituality. It's not surprising he ended up with Chogyo Trumpa as a teacher (and as has been noted Joni spent time there as well) since his approach to tantric Buddhism found some sympathy with the counterculture lifestyle experiments. However, someone noted that Joni spent some time at Trumpa's school in Boulder as well, although I think they said that she left amid the controversies surrounding the school. Could that person be more specific? Also, I think that person said they spent some time at the school; any comments from your own personal experience? The school always had its share of controversy mixed in with the Tantric Buddhist teachings. I just thought of another connection. In the PBS documentary, Joni said she was highly influenced by Dylan's narrative lyrical style. She said, "this was the key; now we could write about anything." However, it seems obvious that Dylan was influenced by the Beat poets (Ginsberg, Keroreac, etc), and Ginsberg even did a cameo appearance in one of Dylan's early videos (title?). The Beat poets and novelists were the pioneers of an almost stream-of-consciousness style of writing that served to subversively (I use that term affectionately) inject taboo topics into the culture. Remember that Ginsberg was taken to court for obscenity after the publisher printed his epic poem "Howl." (Actually, it was probably the publisher that was taken to court, right? Ferlinghetti? ) =-= om==- Nick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 09:25:15 -0400 From: "chuty001" Subject: Re: I's A Muggin' > I've done a couple of pictures/drawings using this method, ie. working from > a photograph, but I always felt it to be a little "plagiaristic" if I didn't > take the picture myself. Especially since I consider (as I assume most > people do) that photography is an art-form in itself. I guess if she had > the permission of the photographer it's OK, but where would you draw the > line? I know they're entirely different mediums, and the end results are > quite different, but the painting is definitely derived directly from that > photograph. > > Hell So if I write a song about the photo or an essay is this plagiarism? It's derived directly from the photo. If I take the photo and cut it into little pieces and glue it all back together in a random order is that plagiarism? I like to draw from photos, people tell me they look just like the photo, but if you put the photo and drawing side by each you will find they're very different. I've worked from many professionals photos some that I've known (I come from a family of photographers) I have never had a photographer that wasn't flattered by my work. The typical response I get from them is that I have far more freedom as an artist to capture the subject then they do. I've worked as a photographer and found it a pain to get the photo I was after, but I found it easy to take a photo I wasn't happy with and draw it the way I felt it should look. So Hell I'd say I draw the line where ever I please, and most are quite happy where ever I chose to draw it. Have a nice day Chuck ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:29:26 +0100 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: re Kids and Joni My kids are really into music of all sorts but are starting to Joni it a bit. I was totally gratified to hear them slate the Counting Crowes version of BYT as no where near as good as the original done by "that woman you like so much mum".... YEAH! I will get them in the end! Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 09:37:46 -0400 From: "Robert Argento" Subject: RE: how is Ginsberg, Dylan, & Joni are related?? When I said that Joni left the Naropa Institute in Boulder, I didn't mean to imply that she left because of contraversies. Many people passed through Boulder those days. Some stay and studied. Some of us just observed and moved on. Myself, I was sceptical to the Man and his way, thought not the basic philodsophy. There were, in MY eyes, a lot of excesses going on in which I saw inconsistancies with the teachings. Others, obviously, didnt agree. There is room for many different opinions in the World. Chvgyam Trumpa "held court" and people sat around and listened. Joni, being who she was, was obviously able to get up close for a while, faster than others who would have to work their way up through the theocracy. Why Joni left? I dont know. I get the feeling that she was just passing through. What she writes about it in Refuge of the Roads certainly doesnt express disappointment or bitterness - but merely "moving on". Check out the lyrics again. While I didnt meet Trumpa personally, I sort of got the same feeling when it was time for me to move on. If anyone really wants the answer, why not just ask Joni? Robban > -----Original Message----- > From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of > SoulQuest7@aol.com > Sent: den 15 april 2003 09:03 > To: SCJoniGuy@aol.com; waytoblu@mindspring.com; joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: how is Ginsberg, Dylan, & Joni are related?? > > > In a message dated 4/15/2003 4:57:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > > > > <<<<"In the early sixties, Ginsberg threw himself into the hippie > > scene. He > > and Timothy Leary worked together to publicize Leary's new > discovery, the > > psychedelic drug LSD, and Ginsberg attempted to turn on > every famous > > cultural figure in his address book, including Willem De > Kooning, Franz > > Kline, Dizzy Gillespie, Thelonius Monk, Robert Lowell and > Jack Kerouac...">> > > > > I would go further than this. I wouldn't say Ginsberg just > "threw himself > into" in the hippie movement, I would say he was a prime > articulator of > hippie spirituality. It's not surprising he ended up with > Chogyo Trumpa as a > teacher (and as has been noted Joni spent time there as well) > since his > approach to tantric Buddhism found some sympathy with the > counterculture > lifestyle experiments. > However, someone noted that Joni spent some time at > Trumpa's school in > Boulder as well, although I think they said that she left amid the > controversies surrounding the school. Could that person be > more specific? > Also, I think that person said they spent some time at the > school; any > comments from your own personal experience? The school > always had its share > of controversy mixed in with the Tantric Buddhist teachings. > I just thought of another connection. In the PBS > documentary, Joni said > she was highly influenced by Dylan's narrative lyrical style. > She said, > "this was the key; now we could write about anything." > However, it seems > obvious that Dylan was influenced by the Beat poets > (Ginsberg, Keroreac, > etc), and Ginsberg even did a cameo appearance in one of > Dylan's early videos > (title?). The Beat poets and novelists were the pioneers of > an almost > stream-of-consciousness style of writing that served to > subversively (I use > that term affectionately) inject taboo topics into the > culture. Remember > that Ginsberg was taken to court for obscenity after the > publisher printed > his epic poem "Howl." (Actually, it was probably the > publisher that was > taken to court, right? Ferlinghetti? ) =-= om==- Nick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:19:44 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Now, how is it Nambla & Joni are related?? In a message dated 4/15/2003 7:51:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, FMYFL writes: > I must admit I never had heard of NAMBLA Nor had I, Jimmy...I was just trying to inject a bit o' Joni! And in reference to Lori's well-timed reminder about why we should be here in the first place, and since you have ALL 39 volumes of the covers series, what are some of your favorite BSN's? (Of course anyone can chime in...) It's hard to beat Lydia van Dam's for a quiet one, and I love Jason Faulkner's rowdy one. Bob NP: "Love's Cries/Crazy Cries Of Love" KSCA 10/25/94 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:45:16 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: I's A Muggin' Hell writes: << I find it interesting that Joni used this method, because it may mean she uses it quite frequently in developing her art-work/paintings. I always assumed she took photographs herself, and worked from those - meaning that she was "composing" the picture when she took it. >> I think she works both ways, Hell. For example: the painting of the burning WTC buildings. I seem to remember that Joni told Kakki and Stephen that she took photos first from her TV before painting that piece. But then at the time, photos of that scene were everywhere, so she could have used her photos and others. << But this one was obviously not taken by her (since she's in it) - I assume it was taken by Sue Mingus? >> That's right. --Bobi (my new persona) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:22:17 -0400 From: Wiloboy@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #130 "Exxon Blue" I enjoyed reading everyone's posts about Exxon Blue, Since Joni says it's not important what it means to her but what it means to the listener, I think all your interpretations are right! I just put the words "Exxon Blue" into google, not much came up, mostly "Passion Play" itself. Then I thought why not try "Esso Blue" Some of you may remember Exxon use to be called Esso. All kinds of stuff came up. Seems there was an industrial color called Esso Blue. It appears they even used it in their advertising. If I remember right their sign was a white oval outlined in blue with Esso in the middle also blue. Found this on Esso Ireland's page: "Throughout the years Esso has introduced a wide range of distinctive products to Ireland such as "Esso Blue" which was in fact paraffin, but the success of the advertising campaign was such that people no longer asked for paraffin, they asked for "Esso Blue"." Also found this tidbit on a Sting/Police discussion: "did anyone notice that the studio recording of "Message in a bottle" has an > official end? Turn the volume up and the instruments stop playing, then Sting > sings / says "sending out an S.O.blue". I don't know if I dreamt this but I > might have read somewhere that this was to be "Esso blue". Does anyone > remember any advertising that had this expression?" Thought you might find this interesting, Wil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:04:56 EDT From: OzWoman321@aol.com Subject: When I Was a Boy (Dar Williams) Hello, All - Susan and Colin's comments... > >Actually and officially declaring myself "soft butch" > > > i guess that makes me a hard femme! ...in addition to this recent gender identification thread, made me think of the following - we really *do* have more similarities than differences, I believe... When I Was A Boy Dar Williams I won't forget when Peter Pan came to my house, took my hand I said I was a boy; I'm glad he didn't check. I learned to fly, I learned to fight I lived a whole life in one night We saved each other's lives out on the pirate's deck. And I remember that night When I'm leaving a late night with some friends And I hear somebody tell me it's not safe, someone should help me I need to find a nice man to walk me home. When I was a boy, I scared the pants off of my mom, Climbed what I could climb upon And I don't know how I survived, I guess I knew the tricks that all boys knew. And you can walk me home, but I was a boy, too. I was a kid that you would like, just a small boy on her bike Riding topless, yeah, I never cared who saw. My neighbor come outside to say, "Get your shirt," I said "No way, it's the last time I'm not breaking any law." And now I'm in a clothing store, and the sign says less is more More that's tight means more to see, more for them, not more for me That can't help me climb a tree in ten seconds flat When I was a boy, see that picture? That was me Grass-stained shirt and dusty knees And I know things have gotta change, They got pills to sell, they've got implants to put in, they've got implants to remove But I am not forgetting That I was a boy too And like the woods where I would creep, it's a secret I can keep Except when I'm tired, except when I'm being caught off guard I've had a lonesome awful day, the conversation finds its way To catching fire-flies out in the backyard. And I tell the man I'm with about the other life I lived And I say now you're top gun, I have lost and you have won And he says, "Oh no, no, can't you see When I was a girl, my mom and I we always talked And I picked flowers everywhere that I walked. And I could always cry, now even when I'm alone I seldom do And I have lost some kindness But I was a girl too. And you were just like me, and I was just like you. Susan http://www.heartsdesireconcerts.co m "But truth is just like time, it catches up and it just keeps going..." ~ Dar Williams ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:00:20 -0700 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: NAMBLA, ETC, OHMEOHMY I had never heard of NAMBLA either, if it makes a difference I would like to have sex with a woman, but, this said, is touching or rubbing or licking or whatever you want to do the only sexual contact we have with each other. To my mind someone that wants to give it to me good and hot in the entertainment center may be a homosexual, be he sure ain't my lover! How do boys learn about sex? From women only? From other boys? I don't know, and, I learned something I guess. I do know one thing, that these behaviors vary from culture to culture, and there appears to be some aspect of it that is learned. So if we are in some way engaged at teaching young boys about sexuality, is this not a homosexual act by it's very nature? If this is the case, what is so controversial about showing a younger brother some love so they don't have the same problems we have had. Plus wouldn't it be great if everyone felt like it was ok for them to ask about things, or express their sexual feelings without shame, guilt, embarrassment. I don't see that as being controversial. Women in our society are the carriers of culture. A great deal of responsibility and ritual surrounds the purity of a woman. I'm not putting a value judgment on that. It just seems to be the case, right or wrong. Men and boys are taught they must at least proffer some lip service in regards to the protection of the woman's purity in order to have sex. I'll still respect you in the morning. Ok, the filter here is romantic love, the process and pomp of displaying your intentions and way for the woman to proceed with the relationship without fear of reprisal from the community. When you were sixteen you wanted a car, right? Why? What kind of girl are you going to go out with on the bus? You need a little job, so you can spend a little cash, etc. This is very old school. Nowadays we try to teach kids that sex kills so we all have a stake in ritual purity, it's a health issue. Instead of teaching young women, if you let these evil boys get in your panties you are a slut, and, will wind up being a slum goddess, we introduce the subject as health related. Instead of the strict rites of courtship, we impose a barrier of time, after you go to college, then you make the decision to get married, in the meantime, birth control and safe sex. For the guys, birth control, safe sex, this is what your dick looks like if you aren't careful, plus if you do get a girl pregnant, here is the district attorney, the paternity suit, child support, date rape laws. So we are solid right? We have science to keep us pure, and, the state who will toss you in the pen if try any funny stuff (interesting note that the biggest fear of prison is that men will rape you). The merits of teaching health are great, if sex wasn't so unhealthy we would face a tougher road in the schools. The merits of using the police and the penal system to deter and punish crime are debatable, and, come at a great cost. Which brings us to the next issue which we are no longer allowed to publicly ignore, or, simply condemn without fear of legal reprisal, homosexuality. Being the rational minded, pragmatic, rulers of all that is free the courts have deemed that in spite of all the politically funded science (propaganda) the nod has come down in favor of the overwhelming scientific evidence that homosexuality is a phenomena that is as natural as heterosexuality. In fact the science shows that we are all bisexual in degrees. Now and then we hear rumblings of some new school of science, most likely funded by a political entity, that wants to flip this paradigm, so far no cure for homosexuals. Again the public has a right, and, the schools a responsibility to prevent AIDS by teaching kids about the legitimate risk to their health. The other health issue is mental, psychological, psychosocial, do we teach our kids to feel good about their bodies, themselves? If we do and we cover these topics then we need to teach our young school children that it's ok to be gay! Science confirms it and the state will straight fuck up anyone caught perpetrating crimes on you for it(we know that this is rarity, but that is a problem that you will have to take down the hall.) Once we open the door to mental well being and teach it in the concern for a healthier happier future, then we face a whole host of very real threats that need be addressed, or at least merit discussion in this forum. So we start teaching our girls they don't have to be punching bags. We confront and discuss incest, rape, drug abuse, suicide. We try and be politically correct we try to use terminology that reflects the situation as we understand it versus an older term that by it's nature implies a conclusion that has been shown false by science. So we are in a Shangri-La of progressive, pragmatism, as our politics are brought closer and closer to what our greatest tool western science tells us we can claim as truth. So when a woman wants to know why she makes 76 cents for doing the same work a man does, no longer do we have to come up with statistics to show that because of her hysterical mental state caused by the menstrual flow of blood, and increased hormonal changes induced by the swelling of the nipple during puberty, on average 24 cents is lost out of the dollar because she needs to go potty more than the men. Nope we say right on sister! Now take your silly assed problem down the hall, and go try and get action through the courts, and, by the way you're fired, clean your cubby hole and make some coffee on your way out. So what is the problem? We don't have utopia but we aren't burning witches! Well, the problem is we are facing a huge backlash of people that are so disturbed by the diversity of human behavior and experience and their apparent position in it being discussed as just another way of doing things, that bless their hearts they want to go back to the old way, where if you didn't like something you got all worked up, went to the elders and convinced them indeed its an abomination, and in fact now it isn't just me that's outraged, Jesus himself commands us to burn the witch! The world is flat! Actually its square. So now we have people that pride themselves basically on their disdain of knowledge, and, their love of a certain fictional representation of a simpler time when education meant breaking your spirit, that'll teach you, and achieving agreement by the flat out refusal to give forum to anything, or anyone who threatened the feel good parade of crap science and fairy tale history that made them feel special good and right as they went to work pillaging the environment, killing for peace, or slurping off the public trough, who although most likely are not a majority, have the fervor of the righteously pissed off. Nothing better for a politician than a debate won on emotions puffed up by a nod where appropriate to the application of some scientific voodoo, most likely statistical, figures lie and liars figure, to push the issue to one that is a win win win, because he gets political capital for bringing it up, brings his passion and character to bear on something that seems to be patriotic, and, first and foremost shifts the debate away from the merits of actual policy to the school of thought, or mystery trend that spawned all this confusing debate that keeps you good people away from enjoying TV with your family. Instead of blame the victim, we play blame the teacher, hell, blame learning itself, most people don't understand it hence they won't blink when I tell them what it is, we're not actually going to fund it anyway, so why not have a very high ideal to ramble on about crap like hearts and families, and tradition and history, when we vanquish the great foe of teachers and knowledge that really causes these kids to fuck and kill each other anyway. Yeah that's the ticket, all this cyncical mistrust, I trust the people of America to do what's right, we don't need school's and books, look when we had less schools we had less unwanted pregnancies, correlation really is causation! The world is flat! Whew! Ok ...The world isn't flat! It's Square! We have journeyed now full circle through the mind of a madman, a felon, a seasoned con man, who uses the safety and anonymity of the internet to target the fans of folk rock musicians and warp them towards his evil agenda of self gratification and ritual torment in the name of rock and roll. Ok... that of course is really my suggestion. We tried telling people and even gave them the tools to show the world is round. However how do we proceed when the argument seems to be, "is not." I for one say "is too, look round." "nope, FLAT." After how many thousands of years of civilization, whatever, that is the argument. Is not ... is too ... is not ..is too. so I am telling you the problem with the world is it's square. They got the guns, but, we've got the numbers ... we are never going to get anything accomplished in these square institutions, there is only one way to change society and that is from the ground up. Now we are empowered, we have the ability to be cool to one another to have a refuge outside of squaredom. If you want to make it in the world, you have to play the square game, no more, I might walk out on the street and meet some soft butch hotty with a big mouth who cracks me up, we become friends and start a company that installs horoscope dispensers in elevators, not only do we make a fortune, but, the conversation that is provoked by the reading of horoscopes during an usual time of uncomfortable silence, liberates people to behave and interact in elevators and in fact marriages result and babies ... ok that is a goofy example, but, not without merit. Ok... when your kids go out the door to play, what do they find? The public school? The sex ed teacher? No, think about your own quest for identity. As kids we made our own worlds, this is where we found exactly where the pressure lies. We have with all good intentions left our kids desires in the hands of the porn industry. Left the law of the playground in charge of their ethics. Why? Because we wanted the best for them, and, went to set about doing it within the constraints of squaredom, because it provided security, hedged our fears, and there wasn't much else. Sure we put on a few good rock shows and damn good festivals, but, when it came exodus time, there was the wasteland, no easy street, just history repeating, there is no repetition, only insistence. Since the wizard got busted you know the angels want to wear my red shoes ... so what do we do? Worship the golden calf of our science? The beautiful golden calf of our sexuality? The golden calf of our memories of a wasted youth? Make a god of politics make a god of police float it down the river to where the sewage hits the sea ... Maybe this NAMBLA isn't your thing, however maybe this debate about it's merits will inspire some to step out of squaredom and get together with all the brother's and sister's you know have been dying to meet you ... and let's jump back! Cause there's people outside staring, standing in a trance, and sister's out in the back yard doing her outtasight dance, The mind's true liberation will not be televised, or expressed in words, your mind will be liberated from all that ... well, well, well, when does that happen? Put on your eye shades, put in your ear plugs, you know where to put the cork ... that didn't work ... howabout ... when she wiggle like a glow warm and dance like a spinning top, she got a crazy partner, you ought to see them reel and rock, if she got a dime the music won't ever stop, roll over Beethoven ...dance ...rhythm ... balance the yin and yang ... nourish the soul ... liberate the spirit ... do we need to be afraid? NOOOOOOOO, we need to let it be, he leads me to lie down in green pastures, so lay down your fears, put a little love in your heart, let the motherlovin' sun come shining right on in, and just use my simple test, can you feel it? It doesn't have to make sense, but you got to feel it! How will you know? It's got a back beat, you can't lose it ... took my love over across the tracks ...to hear my man wailing sax ...I must admit they had a rockin band ... they was blowing like a hurricane ... come away come away and we're going just as fast as our feet can fly, catch a ride to the end of the highway, leave a sinking ship behind, come on the rising wind ... Ted said it I believe it so shut up! - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of MGVal@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 3:53 AM To: joni@smoe.org; joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: NJC: NAMBLA, ETC, OHMEOHMY My good buddy Lama writes: > Maybe we should start up a really offensive thread by and for heterosexuals. > Are there enough of us on the JMDL to support that? > Now before this goes off into a flame war and while I'm still full throttle into my morning, I'd like to just dash off this quick reply. Back off from this one: all people on all sides. Stop for a second and think that Lama's post is not inspired by a mean streak but more, perhaps, from exasperation. And now, take that one step further and spin it around, (not TOO hard because then you'll get dizzy, throw up and lose the whole thread), and see what we can learn. Welcome to the world of the oppressed! Sure, it may seem that gay threads get gross or go on ad nasuem. Maybe, maybe, this is one rare place that they can go on ad nauseum. Without fear of losing one's job or sullying up a neighborhood reputation. Maybe, maybe this is one rare place where they have the luxury of doing the same hasing/re-hasing that straights may do over their specific topic. Specifically, I think that the very insertion of "boy" in NAMBLA is a very tough area. You'll get survivors and those struggling to survive and those for, those against and those who think that NAMBLA may just be a new variation on the RHUMBA and those who aren't sure if it's the computer thing or the dance itself. The point is, once again, compassion and more compassion. Put it right out there full force if you sense someone who is struggling and maybe return a post with kindness. It seems to me that there are offensive threads based on somewhat inappropriate topics, (ie "how far can you stretch your ding dong without the creame filling messing up the carpet"), to that which is offensive on surface because it's an emotional issue. Certainly NAMBLA counts as in the latter category. Anyhow I've been around enough to know that this can be the start of a nasty backandforth. Wouldn't it be cool if we all stepped back and just went into the kitchen to make some cinnamon rolls? Neither side of the pu-pu platter means to be mean. MG - clearly ready for breakfast ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:45:57 -0400 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Joni and My Media A reporter for our university newspaper did a story on my video collection. The interesting part was the Joni connection in the story, and which I, believe it or not, had nothing to do with it: Right now, its amazing what the faculty wants, Notaro said. As for students, they are pleased with the collection. Theres a high demand for America classics and 1920s comedy movies. Students love American classics, such as Casablanca, on DVD. DVD provides tremendous added value with its choices of languages, histories, commentaries, he said. Its definitely a point and click generation. Joe DellaGuardia, a sophomore in computer science at St. Petersburg College, a USF affiliate, checks out movies often at the Poynter Library. They have a lot of hard-to-find movies that you cant find anywhere, he said. Joni Mitchell: Shadows and Light is one. Ive been looking for this for ages, the 31-year-old said. I cant find it anywhere; its out of print. The savings appeals to DellaGuardia too. I dont have the money to go to Blockbuster, he said. The selection here is awesome, you cant beat it. Sometimes, I feel like Im taking advantage of it. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:54:26 +0000 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: The Kinks' song about the suburbs (tangential JC) On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Dave Cuneo wrote (about suburbs): > >Ciao Joniphiles, > > I grew up in New York City and now live in the "suburbs" of >Wilmington, >DE. I love it! I hate the city. I love having a garage with an automatic >opener, a lawn and garden, a house that is way too big for just me, a >cellar >where I can keep all my vino. Suburbs rule, dudes. > > "But I love that Joni spears that perfect suburban >image and roasts it on her patio BBQ for everyone to >see! By 1975 it was about time..." > > Hey, the Monkees beat her to it with "Pleasant Valley Sunday" and the >Kinks did an early song about this topic too but I don't remember the name >of it. > > Ciao, dave. > Howdy, neighbor Dave! I have little doubt that you are referring to the Kinks' song that has the recurring line "Lazing on a Sunday afternoon." I think, but I am not sure, that the title thereof is "Sunday Afternoon." Tim Spong (right in the center of) Dover, Del., U.S.A. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 18:55:22 EDT From: SoulQuest7@aol.com Subject: Re: how is Ginsberg, Dylan, & Joni are related?? Refuge of the Roads by Joni Mitchell I met a friend of spirit He drank and womanized And I sat before his sanity I was holding back from crying He saw my complicationsn And he mirrored me back simplified And we laughed how our perfection Would always be denied "Heart and humor and humility" He said "Will lighten up your heavy load" I left him for the refuge of the roads I fell in love with some drifters Cast upon a beachtown Winn Dixie coldcuts and highway hand me down And I wound up fixing dinner For them and Boston Jim I well up with affection Thinking back down the roads to then The nets were overflowingIn the Gulf of Mexico They were overflowing in the refuge of the roads There was spring along the ditches There were good times in the cities Oh, radiant happiness It was all so light and easy Till I started analyzing And it made most people nervous They just didn't want to know What I was seeing in the refuge of the roads I pulled off into a forest Crickets clicking in the fern Like a wheel of fortune I heard my fate turn, turn turn And I went running down a white sand road I was running like a white-assed deer Running to lose the blues To the innocence in here These are the clouds of Michelangelo Muscular with gods and sungold Shine on your witness in the refuge of the roads. In a highway service station Over the month of June Was a photograph of the earth Taken coming back from the moon And you couldn't see a city On that marbled bowling ball Or a forest or a highway Or me here least of all You couldn't see these coldwater restrooms Or this baggage overload Westbound and rolling taking refuge in the roads. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 19:59:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #130 "Exxon Blue" --- Wiloboy@aol.com wrote: > I enjoyed reading everyone's posts about Exxon Blue, > Since Joni says it's not important what it means to > her but what it means to the listener, I think all > your interpretations are right! > > I just put the words "Exxon Blue" into google, not > much came up, mostly "Passion Play" itself. Then I > thought why not try "Esso Blue" Some of you may > remember Exxon use to be called Esso. In the US, do they call the gas stations Esso or Exxon? Here in Canada, they're Esso. I'm sure they called them Exxon for a while, but switched back to Esso. I could be dreaming. Maybe they were always called Esso here and it was just the big bad head office company mothership overlord that they called Exxon? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:16:22 -0700 (PDT) From: hell Subject: Re: Re: I's A Muggin' Bobi wrote: > I think she works both ways, Hell. For example: the painting of the > burning WTC buildings. I seem to remember that Joni told Kakki and > Stephen that she took photos first from her TV before painting that > piece. But then at the time, photos of that scene were everywhere, so > she could have used her photos and others. Those photographs aren't really "art" though, are they? They're more "documentary". That's my point - where do you draw the line between using a photograph a piece of art (as I would class the cover photos for Hejira, for example) and using it to create another piece of art? Is it plagiarism or not, or does it depend on how the author of the photograph feels? Hell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:37:29 -0400 From: "PAUL PETERSON" Subject: Re: Daniel Lanois Hey thanks Ron for the tip about the Daniel Lanois album streaming. By the way it's only 36kbs so anybody can listen. It's wonderful. I think I hear Bono and and there are other wonderful singers. Each song is a gem. Check it out. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 21:28:49 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: "Exxon Blue" Wil, Thank you! This is cool new information. Now this is what I signed on for. I wonder if our painter / songwriter was inspired by a tube of oils labeled "Esso Blue". If she was already thinking about Industrial Disease (Mark Knoffler content) and kept reaching past "Esso Blue" for something else..... It's possible she updated it to Exxon, then complimented it with another color/danger: "radiation rose". Hey, it could happen. Do you think Springsteen was inspired by his memory of the "Tunnel Of Love" sign in Rose's picture? I do. Remember "Just Like This Train"? I think "fold-up sink" began as "fold-up seat". I think she changed it to get the rhyme. Lama >>>>> I just put the words "Exxon Blue" into google, not much came up, mostly "Passion Play" itself. Then I thought why not try "Esso Blue" Some of you may remember Exxon use to be called Esso. All kinds of stuff came up. Seems there was an industrial color called Esso Blue. It appears they even used it in their advertising. If I remember right their sign was a white oval outlined in blue with Esso in the middle also blue. Found this on Esso Ireland's page: "Throughout the years Esso has introduced a wide range of distinctive products to Ireland such as "Esso Blue" which was in fact paraffin, but the success of the advertising campaign was such that people no longer asked for paraffin, they asked for "Esso Blue"." >>>>> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 21:52:40 -0400 From: "Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: I's A Muggin' When is it plagiarism? For me? If you take someone else's work, like a copywritten logo for example, duplicate it, maybe put a "wash" over it, and call it a Warhol original. That's over the line. Just my two cents. Lama >>>Those photographs aren't really "art" though, are they? They're more "documentary". That's my point - where do you draw the line between using a photograph a piece of art (as I would class the cover photos for Hejira, for example) and using it to create another piece of art? Is it plagiarism or not, or does it depend on how the author of the photograph feels?>>> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 21:58:38 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: I's A Muggin When is it plagiarism? For me? If you take someone else's work, like a copywritten logo for example, duplicate it, maybe put a "wash" over it, and call it a Warhol original. That's over the line. Just my two cents. Victor Victor Johnson waytoblu@mindspring.com Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" this spring! Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:26:12 -0400 From: "Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: I's A Muggin Ha ha ha ha ha ha! No way! This is classic! Lama ----- Original Message ----- From: Victor Johnson To: Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 12:58 AM Subject: Re: I's A Muggin When is it plagiarism? For me? If you take someone else's work, like a copywritten logo for example, duplicate it, maybe put a "wash" over it, and call it a Warhol original. That's over the line. Just my two cents. Victor Victor Johnson waytoblu@mindspring.com Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" this spring! Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:48:32 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: all this sorrow isn't really sad << From: Little Bird Subject: Re: sorrow and affectation Doesn't everyone pronounce "Sorrow" as "sore-oh?" I can't think of any other pronunciation of that particular word. It's not Canadian, it's just plain english.... right? >> Well, actually... I pronounce it "SAR oh"; but I think that's just a New York thang. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:50:09 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Still more on DTY << From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Down to You apropos of the recent discussion about DTY, today I get this unsolicited e-mail from my daughter. "God, I just LOVE that song...... it's incredible how touching her music can be. i mean, when you think about what art is, what it should be... there are so few things that are both intellectually and emotionally stimulating at once - that you can not only appreciate, but fully enjoy." Bobsart (feeling a bit like Alien - what have I done ?) Interesting! Your daughter has good taste ("you must have brought that on".) Has she been a big Joni fan or is this an unexpected thing? The gifts I just received in the mail from you and Paz prompted me to play DTY once again, after work today, as I sat & sipped some Shiraz. I don't mean to beat the proverbial "dead horse" but, you know, I must have played that song hundreds of times and I still sit there and marvel at the whole thing... really makes my day! Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:55:09 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Daniel Lanois - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of PAUL PETERSON Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 8:37 PM To: joni@smoe.org; flopit@mweb.co.za Subject: Re: Daniel Lanois I think I hear Bono ... Did you hear Cher too?? ;-) Sorry ... I couldn't resist. Heather ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:18:25 -0700 (PDT) From: quiltbear Subject: Re: I's A Muggin' When I was in school for Commercial and Advertising Art (a very long time ago), I was taught that it was alright to use another's work if you made five (5) changes in it. From what I understand about copyrights,original work is protected. Permission should always be obtained before using it, and I would think credit should be given for its use. --Nancy-IA The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 02:10:50 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: April 16 1968: Joni began a two-week engagement in Canada's best-known coffeehouse, the "Riverboat", in Toronto's Yorkville Village. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=643 - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 02:10:50 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: April 16 On April 16 the following items were published: 1998: "A concert for the Walden Woods Project" - Los Angeles Times (Concert Preview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=145 2000: "Stars Shine in Tribute to Joni Mitchell" - Arizona Republic (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=499 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #133 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)