From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #130 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, April 13 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 130 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: NRH... what's exxon blue? [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] RE: Suburbia ["theodore" ] Re: NRH... what's exxon blue? ["kerry" ] RE: snow and other smells..now with Joni content/question [Deb Messling <] joni connections [colin ] Joni Smells [KJHSF@aol.com] re exxon blue [cul heath ] Re: Suburbia [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: re exxon blue [Catherine McKay ] RE: re exxon blue ["theodore" ] hissing lawns ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: NRH... what's exxon blue? [=?iso-8859-1?Q?Emiliano_Pati=F1o?= ] Joni on American Masters ... ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: re exxon blue ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Rickie Lee Jones ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: re exxon blue [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] weird joni pronunciation. ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: snow and other smells..now with Joni content/question ["Mark or Travi] Re: hissing of the summer lawns ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Fwd: Rickie Lee Jones [KJHSF@aol.com] weird joni pronunciation ["Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" ] re exxon blue ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Joni and the young women folk ["Kate Bennett" ] joni connections ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Suburbia [Little Bird ] spirituality & Joni [SoulQuest7@aol.com] RE: spirituality & Joni ["Victor Johnson" ] John Guerin, WAS: Re: Joni on American Masters ... [Deb Messling ] Re: spirituality & Joni [Randy Remote ] RE: Re: re exxon blue ["theodore" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:01:13 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Re: NRH... what's exxon blue? Hi Emiliano I always thought that she was referring not only to the colour of the sign but also the colour the sea turned when the Exxon Valdez ran aground and spilled all it's oil out into the coast around Alaska, which happened in 1989. I'm not sure when she actually wrote the words to Passion Play but I think thy coincide. I think it it follows that she would refer to 'radiation rose' in the same way, the colour referring to the effect something has. I'm not explaining it properly but I hope you get what I mean. See:http://response.restoration.noaa.gov/spotlight/spotlight.html Much Joni Jamie Zoob Emilliano wrote: I'm living the cheerfully hipnotic "Passion Play (When All The Slaves Are Free) and wondering: what means "Exxon blue"? - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 05:22:52 -0700 (PDT) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: RE: snow and other smells..now with Joni content/question Not only can I smell the difference in the air when snow is on the way, I actually use the sense of smell when sailing. There's a subtle sweetness to a southwest breeze here in the Northeast U.S. An easterly smells salty. A northeasterly has a cold smell like a refrigerator, even on a warm day. On more than one occasion, I've used the sense of smell to determine if a shift in the breeze was constant or not. And, I can't think of any offhand, but how about smells Joni identifies in her songs? In fact, does she use the sense of smell at all? (all I can come up with are visual images, and some auditory ones.) lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 08:39:46 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: Suburbia Hey, Well, I lived in Suburbia from birth to age 9 so what I recall really isn't that fuzzy. I suppose what I meant by my statement was not based on real life experiece, but this sort of cinematic-Edward-Scissor-Hands-esque-type of neighborhood.. I am sure there are very gossipy neighborhoods in the suburbs. The one I lived in wasnt that way, from how my mother describes it, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I suppose since the album is sort of cinematic, that is how I thought of hissing. But, I also thought of snakes, sprinkers, steam rising from concrete.. basically what everyone else has been saying, but to a lesser developed degree. Also, I agree in that I am sure Joni wasn't thinking about hissing women and men, but isnt it great how so many things can be brought up eventhough they weren't in the artist's original intentions. Blair NP: SUperwoman (where were you when I needed you)- Stevie Wonder > >Blair surmised: > > > > It could be the snide hissing of gossipy men and women living in the > > suburbs.... The way people talk about each other in such controlled >living > > spaces is usually not without a touch of cruelty.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I am somewhat experienced about living in the suburbs, having done so for >50 >of my 54 years. That has not been a particularly distinctive experience for >me. I can relate to Joni's "no color, no contrast" analogy, and to other >images and metaphors for such hissing, but I do not think that one is what >Joni was aiming at. Also there is a tendency to not even really know one's >neighbors in the burbs (perhaps from lack of contact). I am not sure what >is >so controlled about the living spaces in the suburbs, either. > >Has this been your experience, living in the suburbs ? > >Bobsart _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 06:47:50 -0700 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: Suburbia Ok I'm getting a little miffed about people bagging on the burbs. I'm from garage land. I've lived in the city, I've lived in a trailer, I lived in my friend's closet ... whatever, where the hell do you people live that is so cutting edge cool? Where people are so much more genuine. Where materialism is spurned, for the time tested traditions and simple pleasures we philistines here in the hissing abyss of petty jealousy and home improvement have all but laid to rest with our insatiable desire for bigger cheaper retail outlets. A soccer mom's Shangri-La of strip malls, weight loss centers, mini-vans and menstrual tension. Oops sorry be right back I got to go spy on the neighbors, if I can only catch him on video putting his recyclables in our recycle bin ... - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Blair Fraipont Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 5:40 AM To: Bobsart48@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Suburbia Hey, Well, I lived in Suburbia from birth to age 9 so what I recall really isn't that fuzzy. I suppose what I meant by my statement was not based on real life experiece, but this sort of cinematic-Edward-Scissor-Hands-esque-type of neighborhood.. I am sure there are very gossipy neighborhoods in the suburbs. The one I lived in wasnt that way, from how my mother describes it, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I suppose since the album is sort of cinematic, that is how I thought of hissing. But, I also thought of snakes, sprinkers, steam rising from concrete.. basically what everyone else has been saying, but to a lesser developed degree. Also, I agree in that I am sure Joni wasn't thinking about hissing women and men, but isnt it great how so many things can be brought up eventhough they weren't in the artist's original intentions. Blair NP: SUperwoman (where were you when I needed you)- Stevie Wonder > >Blair surmised: > > > > It could be the snide hissing of gossipy men and women living in the > > suburbs.... The way people talk about each other in such controlled >living > > spaces is usually not without a touch of cruelty.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I am somewhat experienced about living in the suburbs, having done so for >50 >of my 54 years. That has not been a particularly distinctive experience for >me. I can relate to Joni's "no color, no contrast" analogy, and to other >images and metaphors for such hissing, but I do not think that one is what >Joni was aiming at. Also there is a tendency to not even really know one's >neighbors in the burbs (perhaps from lack of contact). I am not sure what >is >so controlled about the living spaces in the suburbs, either. > >Has this been your experience, living in the suburbs ? > >Bobsart _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 08:54:19 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Re: NRH... what's exxon blue? > In a message dated 4/12/2003 8:34:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > emilianopd@mundo-r.com writes: > > > Is there some blue sign asociated with that oil company? > > Yes, the Exxon sign is red, white and blue. It's not really a unique or weird > shade, so I've never known why Joni describes it as Exxon Blue. > > I like your thought about the blue flame, it corresponds to radiation rose, I > think. > > Bob She says, "enter the multitudes," so I've always thought of it as a "multitude" of people in blue Exxon uniforms? Kerry NP - Sunday morning peace and quiet ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:04:26 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: RE: snow and other smells..now with Joni content/question How about this description of a ladies' room? Liquid soap and grass and jungle gardenia crash on Pine Sol and beer At 05:22 AM 4/13/2003 -0700, you wrote: >And, I can't think of any offhand, but how about smells >Joni identifies in her songs? In fact, does she use the >sense of smell at all? (all I can come up with are >visual images, and some auditory ones.) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 17:19:29 +0100 From: colin Subject: joni connections I ahev a habit of reading car numberplates as shorthand. Some are quite amusing. Today we went up north to collect a bitch for Harvey to shag, and on the return trip, the car in front had KFE in it's number plate which made me think of Gergia O' Keefe(is that her?) and then Joni. The next car had the silver letters TI on it's body work. That Joni gets her nose into everything. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 12:42:53 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Joni Smells In a message dated 4/13/2003 8:23:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, anne@sandstrom.com writes: > but how about smells > Joni identifies in her songs? "He picks up my scent on his fingers while he's watching the waitress's legs." Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:46:51 -0700 From: cul heath Subject: re exxon blue In a message dated 4/12/2003 8:34:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, emilianopd@mundo-r.com writes: >> Is there some blue sign asociated with that oil company? Yes, the Exxon sign is red, white and blue. It's not really a unique or weird shade, so I've never known why Joni describes it as Exxon Blue. I like your thought about the blue flame, it corresponds to radiation rose, I think. Bob I always took exxon blue to mean "blue chip" hence the "corporate idea" cul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 12:51:57 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Suburbia Blair wrote: > Also, I agree in that I > am > sure Joni wasn't thinking about hissing women and men, I don't think this was her intention either. But she definitely carries the perception in this instance: "People like to talk, tongues are wagging over fences, wagging over phones." Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 12:56:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: re exxon blue emilianopd@mundo-r.com asked: > Is there some blue sign asociated with that oil > company? One of the multitudes of Bobs replied: > Yes, the Exxon sign is red, white and blue. It's not > really a unique or > weird > shade, so I've never known why Joni describes it as > Exxon Blue. > > I like your thought about the blue flame, it > corresponds to radiation > rose, I > think. > And then --- cul heath wrote: > > I always took exxon blue to mean "blue chip" hence > the "corporate idea" This thread has come up a number of times over the years. There are many interesting theories about "Exxon Blue" and "Radiation Rose", one of which got into religious/bible territory that goes way over my head, but which was presented pretty convincingly, at least for this pea-brain. It would be there in the archives somewhere, but do you think I'm going to look? Hell, no! I'm way too lazy. But it's there somewhere. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:12:37 -0700 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: re exxon blue I wonder if she was thinking of the refinery in Downey. I could be wrong but I think it is Exxon, and, if I remember right it has big scary blue flame gas fire deal that gives the fair city of Downey a kind of post apocalyptic charm. Worth the 20 minute drive from Hollywood to bask in the potential disaster of the thing. Ted "the traffic lights, turn blue tomorrow, and shine their emptiness down on my bed, the tiny island sags downstream, because the life that they lived is dead ..." Jimi - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 9:57 AM To: cul heath; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: re exxon blue emilianopd@mundo-r.com asked: > Is there some blue sign asociated with that oil > company? One of the multitudes of Bobs replied: > Yes, the Exxon sign is red, white and blue. It's not > really a unique or > weird > shade, so I've never known why Joni describes it as > Exxon Blue. > > I like your thought about the blue flame, it > corresponds to radiation > rose, I > think. > And then --- cul heath wrote: > > I always took exxon blue to mean "blue chip" hence > the "corporate idea" This thread has come up a number of times over the years. There are many interesting theories about "Exxon Blue" and "Radiation Rose", one of which got into religious/bible territory that goes way over my head, but which was presented pretty convincingly, at least for this pea-brain. It would be there in the archives somewhere, but do you think I'm going to look? Hell, no! I'm way too lazy. But it's there somewhere. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:41:40 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: hissing lawns that is the description of my upbringing & back then, when the album was made, i'd describe that kind of hood as upper middle class...:~} >> These neighborhoods are mostly white, all rich, yards groomed, >> everything under control. These things it shares with middle-class >> suburbia. >My point was that the world Joni was describing was upper-class, not middle. Although it's all relative.< www.katebennett.com "Lyrically, it's a work of art overall. Brilliant writing, absolutely." Indie-music.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 19:45:41 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Emiliano_Pati=F1o?= Subject: Re: NRH... what's exxon blue? Bob says: > Yes, the Exxon sign is red, white and blue. It's not really a unique or weird shade, so I've never known > why Joni describes it as Exxon Blue. hmm, red, white and blue: what do recall me these colours? Kerry says: > She says, "enter the multitudes," so I've always thought of it as a > "multitude" of people in blue Exxon uniforms? Sure! I guess there are multitudes of "blue collar" employees working on E refineries and Jamie: > I always thought that she was referring not only to the colour of the sign but also the colour the sea turned when the Exxon > Valdez ran aground and spilled all it's oil out into the coast around Alaska, which happened in 1989. I'm not sure when she > actually wrote the words to Passion Play but I think thy coincide. > See:http://response.restoration.noaa.gov/spotlight/spotlight.html Uf! The E Valdez thing is very important to all of us, being people much worried about environment preservation (I profit to say that, IMO, Bush -what do you call *it*? Dubya?- government has "covered itself with shit" refusing to suscribe the Tokio's protocol). In fact, since the previous quoted web page has been updated in July 17, 2001, does not cover the recent tragedy in our beloved coasts of Galicia, caused by the Prestige's shipwreck. We're still working hard on it. Anyway: the blue of the sea is not caused by oil: oil sheens causes the sea to look dark grey, almost black. Many thanks to all of you for your kind attention Emiliano from Galicia NP: Slouching towards Bethlehem (again and again!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:50:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "Larry D." Subject: Rickie Lee Jones Emil said, "In the modern genre Ricki Lee comes about the closest to the musical and emotional excellence of Joni. What ever happened to Ricki Lee ?" I encourage emil and anyone else who wonders, to visit www.rickieleejones.com Ms. Jones is still out there making very good music. BTW, anybody remember the little rhubarb Joni and Ricki Lee had years back (in the pages of Rolling Stone, I believe) about "living the jazz life?" Larry D www.larry-d.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:55:29 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Joni on American Masters ... Glossary for new folks: - -- WOH&M is an acronym for the documentary usually called "Joni Mitchell: A Woman Of Heart And Mind". HOSL is an acronym for "The Hissing Of Summer Lawns". JT is James Taylor. CSN(Y) is Crosby, Stills, Nash and (sometimes) Young. PBS is the Public Broadcast System in the United States of America. - -- In the WOH&M, Don Rowe noted, >>>>>> HOSL isn't even mentioned ... then Hejira and DJRD are treated as merely a sort of dress rehearsal for Mingus. >>>>>> Fair enough, Don. But consider this: I was surprised that Susan lingered a bit on John Guerin. When we all revisited "The Hissing Of Summer Lawns", I hauled out the album. Mr. Guerin co-wrote the title track. By pausing on Mr. Guerin, Lacy *did* give us HOSL. I've never heard a thread about what Guerin brought or didn't bring to the stew. We've never discussed him like we have the CSN(Y) vowels, the JT angle as "Boston Jim", the Don Alias quote "Don & me we look up on the awning- it says "Pork Pie Hat Bar'." Is Guerin a jazzer? Back to WOH&M, I guess Lacy did skip stuff. For better year-by-year detail, see the PBS website's Timeline, created by two insiders you already 'know': Simon Montgomery & Joel Bernstein. Here's a link to that forwards you to the Timeline: http://tinyurl.com/9exm If you haven't read it yet, you should if only to see how "Dog Eat Dog" has earned a footnote. The way I connect the dots, it provided the incentive to build a certain home studio in Bel Air. (Somebody stop me. I'm writing like Kakki! Just kidding doll. You know I love you, Kakki.) All the best, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:58:35 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: re exxon blue > >> Is there some blue sign asociated with that oil company? > > > Yes, the Exxon sign is red, white and blue. It's not really a unique > or weird > shade, so I've never known why Joni describes it as Exxon Blue. > > I like your thought about the blue flame, it corresponds to radiation > rose, I > think. > > Bob > > > I always took exxon blue to mean "blue chip" hence the "corporate > idea" > > cul To those of you who may or may not remember my take on this, my apologies for the redundancy. I think I've posted on this one more than once. 'Passion Play' is one of my favorites. I see a couple of possibilities here. I agree that Exxon was still very much associated with the Valdez disaster at the time this song was written. So Exxon kind of equates to big industry polluting the environment which goes with radiation rose rather well. You could take this further and say that Exxon is representative of the 'oppressors' who are going to have a shortage of people 'to do the dirty work when all the slaves are free'. The name of this song suggests a stage production ie: the passion plays that are staged annually in Germany and other places. I also think that she might be referring to stage lighting here and also putting the song in a contemporary context. Stage lights are frequently blue & rose colored. By using Exxon & raditiation as descriptions of these colors, she may be alluding to the gas leaks and oil spills that she later talked about in 'Sex Kills'. Oil spills, nuclear waster, carbon monoxide belching out of automobiles - it's a bleak view of an industrialized world where the ecological health of the planet has been largely ingnored. A world lit by blue neon and that rosy radioactive glow. Pre-apocalyptic here. Definitely moving into apolcalyptic in 'Slouching Toward Bethlehem'. Mark E in Seattle Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:03:29 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Rickie Lee Jones > BTW, anybody remember the little rhubarb Joni and > Ricki Lee had years back (in the pages of Rolling > Stone, I believe) about "living the jazz life?" > I have to confess I never read this but I heard about it and I held a grudge against Rickie Lee for years for daring to criticize my Joni. Then summer before last I saw Rickie in concert. Since then I have eaten a considerable amount of crow and ever since then have signed all my posts to the JMDL: Mark E. in Seattle (as in Mark E's in Love....with Rickie Lee, that is) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 14:07:55 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: re exxon blue In a message dated 4/13/2003 1:59:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: > The name of this song suggests a stage production ie: the passion > plays that are staged annually in Germany and other places. And the phrase "Enter the multitudes" is definitely a stage direction...and I'd never thought of the klieg lights as being the rose & blue references, but that's a keen observation, Mark. The cool thing about "Passion Play" is that it has such attention to detail...most writers would throw out a dismissive cliche, but you know that Joni is going deeper than that so it's fun to see the intricacies of even this subtle line. Bob NP: Mingus Big Band, "Sweet Sucker Dance" Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 14:12:13 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: weird joni pronunciation. Anne said, >>There are a few words the Joni mispronounces that always annoy me...jewels/schools>> I think these are artful affectations. Tools in a singer-songwriter's toolbox include phrasing, Time, pitch, word choice, multiple meanings, and pronunciation. Joni uses all of these tools and many more. Personally, I love the fact that she says "sorrow" with that sad, prairie "oh" sound. It's so much MORE sorrowful than the way Jackson Browne says it in his equally wonderful "Fountain of Sorrow". The way he says (and the way I say it) "sorrow" almost has a long "A" at the beginning. sarrow. That's not sad. It almost rhymes with sparrow. s-oh-rr-oh. Now THAT'S sad. On top of that, the prairie pronunciation has twin 'oh' vowels. This gives the word a symmetry that the midwestern USA version lacks. Give me artful mispronunciation any day. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:22:29 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: snow and other smells..now with Joni content/question > Liquid soap and grass and jungle gardenia crash on Pine Sol and beer > > I love this line. What a wonderful description. The two smells don't mingle. They *crash* on one another. Brilliant! I'm drawing a blank on specific references to smells but there are so many references in Joni's lyrics that *suggest* smells to me: Eating muffin buns and berries by the steamy kitchen window The taste of the spray he takes and he learns to give There was milk and toast and honey and a bowl of oranges too Fresh salmon frying and the tide rolling in She may bake some brownies today.....Annie bakes her cakes and her breads and she gathers flowers for her home Some get the gravy, some get the gristle I miss my clean white linen and my fancy French cologne (or are we supposed to say Freedom cologne now? ;-)) I wound up fixing dinner for them and Boston Jim Like magazines fading in dusty gray attics The Boticelli black boy with the fuschias in his hair is breathing in women like oxygen The wind is in from Africa You see that summer storm brewing in the southern sky (yes you can smell changes in the weather) The place where you can stand and press your hands like it was bubble bath in dust piled high as me (I love this line) And we all know there are many more... Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 14:28:36 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: hissing of the summer lawns No offense, Les, but Joni is full of crap. The title may refer to lawn sprinklers but the THEME is anything but pedestrian. THOSL may be the most cohesive, most artfully drawn concept album of her generation. She's wrestling with the Big Themes here. Maybe she's uncomfortable with these themes. In the liner notes she completely backs away from spelling it out. Maybe she thinks a rowdy songwriter/performer would look like a poser if she talked about it. Anyway, there are still many thousands of posts unwritten about how fun yet thoroughly cerebral THOSL is. Sure, she wants the public to think it's simple and fun. Then she slips that High Minded Poetry by 'em. It stays with 'em and they come back again and again. They're hooked for life. Ask me how I know. Not complaining though, Lama Les said,>> From the 1979 Rolling Stone interview: "The basic theme of the album, which everybody thought was so abstract, was just any summer day in any neighborhood when people turn their sprinklers on all up and down the block. It's just that hiss of suburbia." http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=946 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:53:05 +0000 From: "Clive Brothers" Subject: Blue Tapestry - Nettlebed Quite outstanding concert.The best versions of "This flight tonight" and "Woodstock" I've ever heard.Even better set than last year.The quality of these musicians is unparalleled.We took non-Joni friends who were absolutely thrilled by the experience.I can't praise Blue Tapestry enough for such pure entertainment value. The good news is that they have just announced an extra gig on 7th August at Nettlebed.Get down there if you haven't yet had a chance to see them.It's an unforgettable night. cbros _________________________________________________________________ Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=32&DI=1059 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 15:02:09 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Rickie Lee Jones Return-path: From: KJHSF@aol.com Full-name: KJHSF Message-ID: <1d2.750dc6f.2bcb0cf2@aol.com> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 14:56:50 EDT Subject: Re: Rickie Lee Jones To: ukulelelarry@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.97c X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain In a message dated 4/13/2003 1:50:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ukulelelarry@yahoo.com writes: > BTW, anybody remember the little rhubarb Joni and > Ricki Lee had years back (in the pages of Rolling > Stone, I believe) about "living the jazz life?" > I think the little flare-up was in Musician magazine, actually. I also think that the feud (the war of the berets) is over because I recall Rickie and Joni being signed to the same label in the nineties, and Rickie giving an interview in which, when given the opportunity, she spoke a little more kindly about Joni. I don't recall the actual text verbatim, but the interviewer asked Rickie about her and Joni being characterized as depressing, to which Rickie replied, "Well, we were sad girls back then." In any case, the tone was decidedly more kind than it had been previously. But when Sheryl Crow was mentioned, Rickie said, "I don't discuss Sheryl Crow." End of discussion. Rickie is incredibly talented. Quite temperamental in concert, from my experiences. Her website has TONS of downloads and "bootlegs" of live performances that you can purchase and for which she receives some financial reimbursement. I think Joni's site could profit from some of the same. I would love to be able to purchase copies of Joni's Jazz in NYC, for example, and it would be nice for Joni to see some royalty pennies for that. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 15:20:24 -0400 From: "Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: weird joni pronunciation To get all of the lyrics (as registered) to any of Joni's album tracks, go to: http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/ Scroll down, and click on the song title. http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/MyOldMan.cfm Viola. It's a labor of love, brought to you by Les Irvin of Denver, Colorado, USA and encouraged by the generous support of JMDL'ers like us. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 15:54:15 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: re exxon blue Now me: And the blue-bloods in the boardroom? I didn't realize there was so much there. Shakespearian multiplicity, again and again. Ya know, she's not a bad story teller. For a girl, that is. Lama, who really should stop posting and get outside Mark had: By using Exxon & raditiation as descriptions of these colors, she may be alluding to the gas leaks and oil spills that she later talked about in 'Sex Kills'. cul had: > I always took exxon blue to mean "blue chip" hence the "corporate > idea" Bob Muller started: > Yes, the Exxon sign is red, white and blue. It's not really a unique > or weird > shade, so I've never known why Joni describes it as Exxon Blue. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:25:17 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Joni and the young women folk shawn colvin is up there, imo...i don't know if joni ever has said anything about shawn but she contributed a teensy bit to shawn's fat city album (with klein producing) >In the modern genre Ricki Lee comes about the closest to the musical and emotional excellence of Joni. < www.katebennett.com "Lyrically, it's a work of art overall. Brilliant writing, absolutely." Indie-music.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 14:01:51 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: joni connections >Today we went up north to collect a bitch for Harvey to shag< to alleviate any misunderstandings, i just thought i'd point out to any newcomers that colin raises dogs... www.katebennett.com "Lyrically, it's a work of art overall. Brilliant writing, absolutely." Indie-music.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 14:13:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Little Bird Subject: RE: Suburbia The suburbs are wonderful, so long as you realize that it's all a facade. It's great to have a nice lawn and pretty trim around the windows - it beats cold blue steel and concrete in my book. It's about pace more idealism more than it is about "better" types of people, though many suburbanites do consider themselves to be better than urbanites, and vice versa. If you're aware of the suburban superficiality, you can steer yourself through the yawning, tree-lined streets quite nicely and live to tell the tale. But I love that Joni spears that perfect suburban image and roasts it on her patio BBQ for everyone to see! By 1975 it was about time... - -Andrew Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 17:55:07 EDT From: SoulQuest7@aol.com Subject: spirituality & Joni I've heard spirituality mentioned a few times on this since I joined a week ago. I'm very interested in the topic of pop music and spirituality. Does anyone know what Joni is into? I just watched some Joni videos sent to me via the Joni tree, and I heard her mention influences such as Krishnamurti (an independent philosopher who was raised in the Theosophica Society), Chungyo Trumpa (the Tibetan Buddhist teacher who inspired Allen Ginsberg), and Joseph Campbell (a mythologist interested in interfaith studies). I even heard her make an odd reference to Scientology in one of her early appearances on the BBC. Was she ever involved in that sect? If anyone knows anything, let me know. ==- om==- Nick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:01:58 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: spirituality & Joni My impression would be that she is influenced by these and other things and has her own personal spirituality that comes across through her music and art, but probably defies any definition as does her her art. That;'s my own take on it anyway. If anyone asked me what I was into I wouldn't have an immediate answer. Welcome to the list! Victor, enjoying some beautiful Atlanta weather >> I've heard spirituality mentioned a few times on this since I joined a week > ago. I'm very interested in the topic of pop music and spirituality. Does > anyone know what Joni is into? I just watched some Joni videos sent to me via > the Joni tree, and I heard her mention influences such as Krishnamurti (an > independent philosopher who was raised in the Theosophica Society), Chungyo > Trumpa (the Tibetan Buddhist teacher who inspired Allen Ginsberg), and Joseph > Campbell (a mythologist interested in interfaith studies). Victor Johnson waytoblu@mindspring.com Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" this spring! Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:03:59 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: John Guerin, WAS: Re: Joni on American Masters ... Found this on johnguerin.com: Since the record boom of the late sixties, John Guerin has run the gamut of musical feelings, recording with greats such as Frank Sinatra, Frank Zappa, The Byrds and Thelonius Monk. In Jazz and Pop, he is one of the most recorded drummers of all time. In the film medium, his most celebrated work was on the soundtrack for Clint Eastwood's motion picture "Bird". He has also worked with Dave Grusin, Jerry Goldsmith, John Williams and a myriad of other fine composers. Guerin traveled worldwide co-leading the L.A. Express and working with Joni Mitchell. His compositions include "The Hissing of Summer Lawns" with Joni Mitchell, "Don't Be Blue" with Michael Franks and countless songs with other artists. Guerin has produced many record projects including work for O.C. Smith, Keith Carradine ("I'm Easy"), and Terry Garthwaite. He achieved ProEmeritus status by winning the NARAS M. V. P. award for four years, and has authored a drum book titled "Jazz + Rock = John Guerin". Recent credits include work with Oscar Peterson, Jon Faddis, Jimmy Heath, k. d. lang, Ray Charles, Sonny Rollins, and producing a series of jazz CD's for Japan. Guerin is currently a Clinician for the D. W. Drum Company and is appearing with the trios of Roger Kellaway and Mike Melvoin. At 01:55 PM 4/13/2003 -0400, you wrote: >By pausing on Mr. Guerin, Lacy *did* give us HOSL. I've never heard a >thread about what Guerin brought or didn't bring to the stew. > >Is Guerin a jazzer? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:06:29 EDT From: SoulQuest7@aol.com Subject: Re: spirituality & Joni In a message dated 4/13/2003 3:02:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: > < has her own personal spirituality that comes across through her music and > art, but probably defies any definition as does her her art. That;'s my > own take on it anyway. If anyone asked me what I was into I wouldn't have > an immediate answer.>> > But some artsists' spirituality doesn't come across in their lyrics at all, while others love to sing about it. Joni seems more fixated on relationships and politics, although I really don't know her catalogue that well. Her comments revealed a more spiritual side than I get from her lyrics. My own spirituality is very eclectic, mostly influenced by liberal "hippie" spirituality and Hinduism and New Age thought. ==-= om=== Nick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:31:24 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Joni convert My friend who sublets my SF apartment and became exposed to Joni through me just emailed me because he watched the PBS special. His exposure to Joni was largely Hejira and Hissing. And he said that after watching through Joni's development in the documentary, when the opening passage of Hejira began, he got goosebumps. He said he thought it was becuase he felt we were hearing her masterpiece. He also sent this beautiful photo from my apartment deck that he titled "Moody Skies Today" I'm putting the photo in the email body for all to enjoy. I don't know if it will come through, but I hope so, since it was inspired by Joni's words! Ken [Unable to display image] [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Untitled01] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT) From: hell Subject: Re: Re: re exxon blue Catherine wrote: > This thread has come up a number of times over the > years. There are many interesting theories about > "Exxon Blue" and "Radiation Rose", one of which got > into religious/bible territory that goes way over my > head, but which was presented pretty convincingly, at > least for this pea-brain. It would be there in the > archives somewhere, but do you think I'm going to > look? Hell, no! I'm way too lazy. But it's there > somewhere. That was me, at least I was one of the people with a "religious" interpretation (I think there were a few others). My post follows below (if anyone can be bothered reading it again)! I think this song is about the interactions of religion and technology. I've dissected the lyrics as follows: "Magdalene is trembling Like a washing on a line Trembling and gleaming Never before was a man so kind Never so redeeming" Mary Magdalene, one of the first "sinners", trembling with fear and relief, forgiven by Jesus, the great redeemer. She is gleaming with happiness, having been "washed clean" of her sins. This gives us our first reference to religion and Christianity. "Enter the multitudes In Exxon blue In radiation rose" The multitudes - Christianity started with one man (Jesus) and a handful of followers, now it numbers in the millions. Also now there are billions more people in the world, and technology has advanced exponentially as a result, with the discovery of nuclear power, etc. Exxon blue - blue is also a term for a mistake, eg. the sinking of the Exxon Valdez. We've made several technological mistakes. Radiation rose - rose may refer to the lesions formed in radiation sickness, similar to the old nursery rhyme "Ring of Roses" referring to the pustules formed by bubonic plague - a symptom of our mistakes. Rose may also have been used as in the past tense of "rise", ie. the radiation levels rose? "Now you tell me Who you gonna get to do the dirty work When all the slaves are free? (Who're you gonna get)" Who is left to take the blame for our technological blunders, if religion can "forgive us our sins"? "I am up a sycamore Looking through the leaves A sinner of some position Who in the world can this heart healer be This magical physician" I think these first three lines mean that although she is a non-believer and feels superior in her beliefs, she feels she is not seeing clearly, ie. her vision or perceptions are obscured (by the leaves). Then perhaps she's questioning the basis of Christianity, that a religion can be based on just one man's philosophies, and how could someone literally heal someone with the touch of a hand. Or perhaps as a more indirect concept, how can we magically be forgiven no matter what we do, and therefore have no need to accept any responsibility? "Enter the multitudes The walking wounded They come to this diver of the heart Of the multitudes Thy kingdom come Thy will be done" The walking wounded - the everyday sinners who come to Christianity to be forgiven their sins, in the knowledge that they will be redeemed and eventually go to the kingdom, ie. heaven, if God so wills it, despite their sins. "Oh, climb down, climb down he says to me From the middle of unrest" Come down from the sycamore tree, stop your questioning and see clearly. "They think his light is squandered But he sees a stray in the wilderness And I see how far I've wandered" The sceptics and non-believers don't understand how if Christianity or God has this power, why do mistakes like the sinking of the Exxon Valdez happen? But the basis of Christianity says that each individual is what is important, not the global actions of the "multitudes", and she realises how far from the truth her perceptions were. "Oh, all around the marketplace The buzzing of the flies The buzzing and the stinging Divinely barren And wickedly wise The killer nails are ringing" Perhaps an early reference to Ethiopia (before the song of the same name), or perhaps the spread of Aids in Africa via mosquitoes - the buzzing of the flies, the stinging and the killer nails. It seems to be a departure from the radiation theme, although "divinely barren" may refer to the sterilisation effect of radiation. Maybe technology is "wickedly wise" in making people in these countries sterile to off-set over-population? As for the changing lyric: "Ecstasy, Misery, Apathy, Tragedy" could this reference the history of the whole nuclear debate, or technology in general? Initially Ecstasy at the discovery of a new weapon, power source, etc. Misery after the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as the implications are realised. Apathy as people think "well, we can't stop the big companies from using this technology, so why fight it?" Tragedy as the after-effects of Hiroshima, Chernobyl etc. are realised, sometimes many years later. Hell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 16:34:33 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: spirituality & Joni SoulQuest7@aol.com wrote: > I've heard spirituality mentioned a few times on this since I joined a week > ago. I'm very interested in the topic of pop music and spirituality. Does > anyone know what Joni is into? I just watched some Joni videos sent to me via > the Joni tree, and I heard her mention influences such as Krishnamurti (an > independent philosopher who was raised in the Theosophica Society), Chungyo > Trumpa (the Tibetan Buddhist teacher who inspired Allen Ginsberg), and Joseph > Campbell (a mythologist interested in interfaith studies). I didn't know that > I even heard her > make an odd reference to Scientology in one of her early appearances on the > BBC. Was she ever involved in that sect? Not that I've heard-she is too headstrong I would think > If anyone knows anything, let me > know. ==- om==- Nick Her lyrics sometimes hint at things; zen, astrology, yin-yang, cosmic synchronicity, Casteneda, Lord Buckley, nature, The Bible, The I Ching....I think it's safe to say she's interested in all things mystical. On the PBS website for the American Masters program they called her a Buddhist. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:20:39 -0700 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: Re: re exxon blue That pretty much explains it ... I wonder why people debate some of this stuff. I haven't heard this song. Obviously not a reference to the Exxon sign. It seems she is questioning what her role should be amidst all this senseless suffering. Not who will take the blame but who will do the dirty work. The situation is the human condition, she is saying to jesus, why should I have to go clean up your mess. She is first attracted to Jesus from mary's positive review. Magdalene was the whore, never been so redeeming, this redemption seems attractive to Joni, a sinner of some position, note her position currently is up a tree ... the multitudes of sufferers ... this makes Joni say no way pal, I can't deal with it, but I think I'm just repeating what you are saying ... the marketplace that is divinely barren and beset with flies ... that is Apathy. At first Joni thought Jesus could redeem her -Ecstasy. When redemption truly only liberates you to be honest that we all are to blame for the state of the world and that human suffering is senseless needless, she realizes he is the shepherd calling in a stray - Misery. Then she becomes Apathetic, I'm not gonna do it, I'm the magic heart lady in the tree. The marketplace of her soul, is beset by the evil of her Apathy and she recognizes that this is truly a tragedy that heaps suffering on top of suffering. The other result of her Apathy is to foul the ecstasy of her redemption, because if all being redeemed means is a free pass that denies the power of Jesus to redeem in the first place, it would mean he failed at what Jesus is, the lord is my Shepherd. Apathy isn't thinking or rationalizing it really means sitting on your butt while there is suffering all around you that you have turned a blind eye to. Yeah I don't live up to this either. "The Plague" by, Albert Camus is about the same thing, are reaction in the face of human suffering, once, we realize that no one suffers because Jesus doesn't like them, or they had it coming, people rationalize AIDS like this, and it is truly fucked especially when they are clergy. The other thing that is also fucked up is our apathy. The only difference is being apathetic at least you're not saying I'll sit this one out cause I got a note from God. Ok how are you magically forgiven? Cause that's it next, what did you think there was a test. You were forgiven in advance, they saw you coming. You were forgiven when Jesus died on the cross. However if you fuck it up you will end up spending eternity in hell, and, this hell is very real, evil and good are very real and the universe depends on you to keep the positive vibration, that is why Jesus can't let one wander. Even those that are wise can wisdom themselves out of the game. Jesus heals your heart, with love, you can either be true to it or not. The question is not who is going to forgive our sins, but who is going to mend our hearts... and also will we have faith in that covenant between ourselves and the divine piece of eternity which we can ignore or turn away from, but, we can't shut it down ..."and in my hour of darkness there is still a light that shines on me, shine until tomorrow, let it be." Let it be, I don't think it's a hope like please let it be. No way, it means leave it alone and let it shine, let the sun shine on in, you got to feel it, give peace more than a chance. Don't stand in doorway don't block up the hall. There is a battle outside raging...the battle between the forces of good and those of evil is real and it takes place in the hearts of all of us everyday. Some people want to sugar coat that, some people would say I'm off my nut. Don't take it from me, look inside yourself, do you feel what Joni was talking about that barren wasteland that we've made with our wisdom that says there is no magic, we made hard choices, if we didn't drop the bomb we would have got so many more killed, if we didn't ruin the environment the Russians would have, and all of sudden the government isn't enough, the community is not enough, corporate America is not enough, technology is not enough, and we are left with a choice. What are you going to do? Cause here comes the devil, (he was there in the details). Don't try to pick up your pace walking. You meet Jesus, and all you have to do is just touch the hem of his garment, you can rise above your trouble, we shall overcome, War is over if you want it. Jesus will reign on earth again, the second coming, thy kingdom come Thy will be done. A messianic age will be ushered in by the prophet Elijah, it's truly hard to imagine all the people living for the day, living life in peace, or the lion lying down with the lamb, but, it will happen, if you want references God parted the red sea and led us out of slavery, he gave us the law, he led us to the promised land, and he sent Jesus to show us the way and the light, we already know the answer, all you need is love. Rev. Ted Friedman, Universal Life Church, Modesto, CA "when the broken hearted people living in the world agree, there will be answer, let it be." - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of hell Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 4:30 PM To: culheath@telus.net; joni@smoe.org; anima_rising@yahoo.ca Subject: Re: Re: re exxon blue Catherine wrote: > This thread has come up a number of times over the > years. There are many interesting theories about > "Exxon Blue" and "Radiation Rose", one of which got > into religious/bible territory that goes way over my > head, but which was presented pretty convincingly, at > least for this pea-brain. It would be there in the > archives somewhere, but do you think I'm going to > look? Hell, no! I'm way too lazy. But it's there > somewhere. That was me, at least I was one of the people with a "religious" interpretation (I think there were a few others). My post follows below (if anyone can be bothered reading it again)! I think this song is about the interactions of religion and technology. I've dissected the lyrics as follows: "Magdalene is trembling Like a washing on a line Trembling and gleaming Never before was a man so kind Never so redeeming" Mary Magdalene, one of the first "sinners", trembling with fear and relief, forgiven by Jesus, the great redeemer. She is gleaming with happiness, having been "washed clean" of her sins. This gives us our first reference to religion and Christianity. "Enter the multitudes In Exxon blue In radiation rose" The multitudes - Christianity started with one man (Jesus) and a handful of followers, now it numbers in the millions. Also now there are billions more people in the world, and technology has advanced exponentially as a result, with the discovery of nuclear power, etc. Exxon blue - blue is also a term for a mistake, eg. the sinking of the Exxon Valdez. We've made several technological mistakes. Radiation rose - rose may refer to the lesions formed in radiation sickness, similar to the old nursery rhyme "Ring of Roses" referring to the pustules formed by bubonic plague - a symptom of our mistakes. Rose may also have been used as in the past tense of "rise", ie. the radiation levels rose? "Now you tell me Who you gonna get to do the dirty work When all the slaves are free? (Who're you gonna get)" Who is left to take the blame for our technological blunders, if religion can "forgive us our sins"? "I am up a sycamore Looking through the leaves A sinner of some position Who in the world can this heart healer be This magical physician" I think these first three lines mean that although she is a non-believer and feels superior in her beliefs, she feels she is not seeing clearly, ie. her vision or perceptions are obscured (by the leaves). Then perhaps she's questioning the basis of Christianity, that a religion can be based on just one man's philosophies, and how could someone literally heal someone with the touch of a hand. Or perhaps as a more indirect concept, how can we magically be forgiven no matter what we do, and therefore have no need to accept any responsibility? "Enter the multitudes The walking wounded They come to this diver of the heart Of the multitudes Thy kingdom come Thy will be done" The walking wounded - the everyday sinners who come to Christianity to be forgiven their sins, in the knowledge that they will be redeemed and eventually go to the kingdom, ie. heaven, if God so wills it, despite their sins. "Oh, climb down, climb down he says to me From the middle of unrest" Come down from the sycamore tree, stop your questioning and see clearly. "They think his light is squandered But he sees a stray in the wilderness And I see how far I've wandered" The sceptics and non-believers don't understand how if Christianity or God has this power, why do mistakes like the sinking of the Exxon Valdez happen? But the basis of Christianity says that each individual is what is important, not the global actions of the "multitudes", and she realises how far from the truth her perceptions were. "Oh, all around the marketplace The buzzing of the flies The buzzing and the stinging Divinely barren And wickedly wise The killer nails are ringing" Perhaps an early reference to Ethiopia (before the song of the same name), or perhaps the spread of Aids in Africa via mosquitoes - the buzzing of the flies, the stinging and the killer nails. It seems to be a departure from the radiation theme, although "divinely barren" may refer to the sterilisation effect of radiation. Maybe technology is "wickedly wise" in making people in these countries sterile to off-set over-population? As for the changing lyric: "Ecstasy, Misery, Apathy, Tragedy" could this reference the history of the whole nuclear debate, or technology in general? Initially Ecstasy at the discovery of a new weapon, power source, etc. Misery after the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as the implications are realised. Apathy as people think "well, we can't stop the big companies from using this technology, so why fight it?" Tragedy as the after-effects of Hiroshima, Chernobyl etc. are realised, sometimes many years later. Hell ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #130 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)