From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #121 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, April 7 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 121 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Library Links: April 6 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: woman of heart and mind [RoseMJoy@aol.com] SJC Diana Krall ["Gillian Apter" ] Re: SJC Diana Krall ["hell" ] Re: Aussie Members ["hell" ] joni life and times [twoshoes@sasktel.net] question [Aerchak@aol.com] Re: Me and Joni (Long Essay) [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: Joni the Ingenue and her "Ingenue Songs" [Bobsart48@aol.com] Joni in my mind ["Marianne Rizzo" ] American Masters ["Emily Griskavich" ] Joni in Spain [=?iso-8859-1?Q?Emiliano_Pati=F1o?= ] Re: Woman of Heart and Mind [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Down to You [Michael Paz ] Re: Mingus and TS Eliot ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] RE: Re: Mingus and TS Eliot ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] RE: Re: Mingus and TS Eliot ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] FILM PERSON SEARCH [SoulQuest7@aol.com] Re: Me and Joni (Addition to the original) [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: The Woodstock era [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: The Woodstock era [SoulQuest7@aol.com] Good ol' what's his name... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni in Spain [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Cold Blue Steel [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Moon at the Window Note [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: FILM PERSON SEARCH [Michael Paz ] Re: Hooked at age 12 [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: Joni airplay [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: Living in remote Canada [PassScribe@aol.com] Kids liking Joni ["daville72" ] Re: Kids liking Joni [Catherine McKay ] Re: Kids liking Joni [KJHSF@aol.com] Today's Library Links: April 7 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 03:07:01 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: April 6 On April 6 the following item was published: 1997: "Joni Mitchell's daughter: Chatelaine model" - Jam! Website (Reunion Story, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=87 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 03:43:03 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: woman of heart and mind In a message dated 4/6/03 12:36:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, theodore@buckfush.org writes: > She can really paint too. I wonder of any of you know if her paintings > are in galleries or if she has shows for her artwork? Yes, Ted there have been exhibits of Joni's work. The most recent was held at the Mendel Gallery in Saskatoon,Saskatchewan, Canada in the fall of 2000 for which I am still kicking myself in the arse for not having been able to attend. There is a book of her beautiful paintings for sale at the gallery titled "Voices". u can still purchase the book, I believe from the gallery at...http://www.mendel.ca/shop/ You may also view some of the paintings that were on exhibit at www.Jonimitchell.com. Choose with frame index, then at the left tab, click on galleries, then "more from the Mendel". Make sure that you maximize your screen so that u get the arrow link at the bottom of the page to go thru the paintings. rosie in nj In the morning there are lovers in the street They look so high You brush against a stranger And you both apologize ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 10:57:41 +0200 From: "Gillian Apter" Subject: SJC Diana Krall I saw Diana Krall perform in Madrid last September. She had a cold, which was a shame 'cos her voice was a bit strained. Lovely, calm and light stage manner, good rapport with audience, and what I wanted to be my highlight of the evening, A CASE OF YOU, certainly was. I held my breath throughout the whole song. Maybe. I'm biased, but, I don't think Krall put the same emotion into her other songs, OK, they were different, as she did with ACOY. It was clear just how much she adores Joni. The piano on this version is so sublime (but what a helluva player she is), the depth of the emotion, the phrasing, a pure, pure love song. Unfortunately, unlike the New Zealanders, Kerry, Spaniards do have an annoying habit of coughing, and shifting about in their chairs no matter what type of concert they go to, so that pissed me off a bit, especially since her version of ACOY is sprinkled with wonderful silences. I love Spain, but that's is one of the things I would love to change: behaviour at concerts, films, etc. Someone always has to make a noise!!! Peace gill ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 23:26:54 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: SJC Diana Krall Gill wrote: > I saw Diana Krall perform in Madrid last September. She had a cold, which was > a shame 'cos her voice was a bit strained. Lovely, calm and light stage > manner, good rapport with audience, and what I wanted to be my highlight of > the evening, A CASE OF YOU, certainly was. I held my breath throughout the > whole song. Maybe. I'm biased, but, I don't think Krall put the same emotion > into her other songs, OK, they were different, as she did with ACOY. It was > clear just how much she adores Joni. The piano on this version is so sublime > (but what a helluva player she is), the depth of the emotion, the phrasing, a > pure, pure love song. I have to agree with you - Diana Krall's performance of ACOY was absolutely sublime, and it was a step above the rest of her performance that night (which was still wonderful). The stage was dark, except for a single spotlight on her and the piano. She played a long introduction to the song, and to be honest I was thinking "Yes, it's ACOY", then "Oh, no it's not" for quite some time. But as she sang the first few words "Just before our love got lost....." I think the only noise in the audience was me gasping and suddenly whispering to Kerry, "Oh my god, it IS!" And I would say she is definitely a big Joni fan - BSN was playing over the speakers as the audience left that night! > Unfortunately, unlike the New Zealanders, Kerry, Spaniards do have an annoying > habit of coughing, and shifting about in their chairs no matter what type of > concert they go to, so that pissed me off a bit, especially since her > version of ACOY is sprinkled with wonderful silences. The audience was amazing that night and it was in a fairly large theatre, where you'd expect to hear a little noise. But they were somewhat older than at other music concerts I've been too, and very respectful. Plus she was performing with the Auckland Philharmonic Orchestra, which may have attracted a somewhat different crowd! I wouldn't say it's the norm here at all. In January we saw Dave Dobbyn and Lucy Lawless (of Xena fame - yes, she can sing!) in a relatively small garden bar, and while they were great, the audience left something to be desired. Especially the young guys standing right behind me, who (if their comments were anything to go by) were obviously there to SEE Lucy, not hear her or Dave! Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 23:38:06 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Aussie Members Don wrote: > I am an aussie member, just new to this but I am looking for any other aussie > members. are tape trees (video) out there can be used on aussie TV (PAL D) as > we use a different format to USA (NTSC). > > we seem to be out inthe cold down here. Welcome to the list, Don, from your neighbour in NZ. You're right, the tape trees are mostly NTSC, and we have to pay extra for someone to convert them. But there are a couple of commercial releases that may be available - Come In From The Cold (a collection of video clips etc.) and Painting With Words And Music (a concert recorded a couple of years ago). I've bought these in NZ, so I know they're available in PAL format. Another option - some of the newer video recorders can play NTSC tapes. You'll get a little static, or some distortion, but they do work. I've managed to play a couple of things from the US without too much difficulty. Hell (in Auckland) ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 10:02:02 -0600 From: twoshoes@sasktel.net Subject: joni life and times One thing that stood out in the bio was Joni saying (I paraphrase) That she intended for her songs to change people's lives, To make a difference to people. I'd always thought it was all about artful self-expression, but when she said this it did seem a little as if she thought of herself as a bit of a life guru. Kate du Nord - -- http://xoetc.antville.org A Living Storybook ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 12:15:57 EDT From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: question Why do some people's computers type that funny little square O, which I am clueless as to what it represents and thrn cannot decipher the word. Is it an apostrophe? Is it some sort of symbol I am unaware of? It is not on my keyboard and it continually mystifies me. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 12:29:39 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Me and Joni (Long Essay) In a message dated 4/6/03 12:26:28 AM, mark.travis@gte.net writes: << This was wonderful from beginning to end, Kenny. Can I save this and send it to people who refer to Joni's stuff as 'chick music'? :-) Absolutely! You know, there are just some guys who can't be sensitive or consider it a sign of weakness. And don't get me wrong; I like to rock with the best of 'em... ever listened to "Mercury Blues" by David Lindley, at full volume? But when you want some deep feeling, meaningful lyrics and gorgeous arrangements, it's time for Joni. Seriously though, I did enjoy reading your history with Joni and finding a bit out about you. Please keep the posts coming. Glad I added a little something new to the site. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 12:58:15 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni the Ingenue and her "Ingenue Songs" Bob Muller replied: > On the other hand - songs like "You're My Thrill", "At Last" (at last, my > love has come along, my lonely days are over, and life is like a happy > song), > "Answer Me My Love", seem to DEFINITELY be ingenue songs. And you know > there > may be more...love songs with a girlish sensibility to them. > > WOA ! I may be onto something here. I think this whole thing may be primarily a semantic difference. The difference in perspective seems to me to be largely between the protagonist's role in the song, and the artfulness of the song itself. In the early stages of love (which, of course, Joni was trying to capture with the first two songs mentioned above), and even in some of the more trying times (where one's broken self-confidence can reduce a person to rubble, as in Answer Me), most of us act and feel like youths, even well beyond what would normally be regarded as our "ingenue" years (is there a male counterpart to that word ?). Trying to capture that vulnerability, which is most often but not exclusively found in the realm of youth's innocence, transcends the general sense of "ingenue" for me. On the other hand, I think that lines like "I'd like to buy you everything, a wooden bird with painted wings, a window full of colored rings, in Morning Morgantown" have both the emotional and artistic (lyrically speaking) substance of an ingenue. Like the NY Times reviewer of the Wall to Wall event said, some of Joni's lines would be viewed as terribly precious if they came from a lesser person. That said, Joni played the quintessential ingenue into her late 20's. I mean, at least through 1972 (she was 26 for the Pink Dress concert, and 27 for the JT BBC concert). Since I love Morning Morgantown as a song, perhaps I should pick on the Beatles (about whom I was also fanatical before Joni), and their "She Loves You, yeah yeah yeah,, you think you lost your love I saw her yesterday It's you she's thinking of, and she told me what to say, She says she loves you" Or "I wanna Hold your hand", both of which were even more precious and immature than Morning Morgantown. Which brings me to the other aspect. When Joni was referring to her early work as being ingenue work, I believe that she was referring to the innocence of the art itself, as well as to its content. Some (not all) of the songs were simpler (in their structure musically, and in their substance poetically) than her later work, and she feels that they were less evolved artistically because she had not yet fully developed her palette. So, she felt the irony of being admired partly because people could grasp her early songs better (and partly because she herself milked the part of the ingenue in presenting them ?) (and in part because people like to stay in or revisist the innocence of their youth ?), while her later work, which was higher art and had shed its ingenue aspects in substance and presentation, was not as well received (at least, initially). The songs you cite are surely not the work of ingenue composers and lyricists (one possible reason why some of us - myself included - were a bit puzzled by your classification). Particularly so musically. And, one could argue that even though the subject is infatuation, there is a difference - perhaps even a disconnect - between infatuation and the ingenue. (Sort of like ingenue belongs in a subset of the realm of infatuation - all ingenues get infatuated, but not all who get infatuated are ingenues). An interesting puzzle for me is why Joni's two contributions to this record (and who could argue with these choices ?) seem to have come from her "ingenue period". Both Sides now is a very simple work, musically - but "all the sparks connected", as Crosby said. And while it could be argued that Blue as an album marked the beginning of Joni's 'loss of innocence' , A Case of You (for all of its virtuosity) was still firmly entrenched in that era. Perhaps, ultimately, the essence of art lies not its technical merit, but in the capturing of those things that belong to our lives and our spirit in the barest, the most distilled, the purest form. Perhaps that's why Joni chose The Circle Game to close Travelogue. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 13:39:44 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Joni in my mind For the fourth or fifth day in a row I wake up and I have a Joni song playing in my mind. . Today it was Court and Spark Yesterday it was Night in the City. . . I haven't even heard these songs lately. . .oh, maybe on the pbs special. I don't know. . . but they are just playing in my mind as if I have them on. . . a lot of things going on up there. . . Marianne _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 12:56:10 -0500 From: "Emily Griskavich" Subject: American Masters I finally finished my videotape of Wed. night's episode of "American Masters." (I'm busy, so it took me a long time.) The cable sattelite dish on my college campus is always a little off, so some of our channels come in pretty bad, and PBS is the worst. I watched the show through heavy snow and static so loud I couldn't really understand what Joni and the others were saying! I turned on the subtitles, but since those are coming over the same wavelength, they were pretty messed up, too! Between the sound and the subtitles, I managed to understand almost all of the spoken words, but not much of the song lyrics. : ( Like many of you, I think HOSL and her affair with JT were glaring omissions. Does either James or Joni not want to talk about it? I was so glad to see pictures of Kilauren and her kids; I only recently became a fan and I'd never seen pictures before. She looks quite a bit like Joni, but not completely. Does anybody know if she looks at all like Mark MacMath? The most intriguing album I learned about in the whole show was her work with Mingus. I hardly ever have money to buy things for entertainment, but I'm definitely putting that album on my Christmas list. The "American Masters" website says that blues musician Muddy Waters will be the subject of the next episode on April 28, for those of you who are fans of his. Peace to everyone. Emily ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 20:10:52 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Emiliano_Pati=F1o?= Subject: Joni in Spain Hi, folks! It's a wonder sunny sunday, so I'm in the mood to tell you something As you know by now, specially Mike and Gill, Joni's presence in my country is almost null: she has never given a concert here, although were announced at Sevilla in 1991, at some very special concerts presenting the 1992 World exhibition. I remember, from my old university days, I friend of mine: he was punk / neo gothic ('twas around 1981, you know): when I told him that I loved Joni's music, het told me he have seen HER strolling through the streets of Santiago de Compostela (where I studied Philosophy), near the cathedral, and entering Sargadelos's shop (a very artistic and socially engaged project, devoted over all at ceramics and that is maybe the most modern and typical representation of Galician country) As you know, Santiago (Saint James) de Compostela is one of the most important centres of pilgrimage in Europe (possibily only Rome is most important; as everyone should know: she's a pilgrim: a high-class (understanding this in no social level ways) pilgrim. Needless to say, I opened my eyes wide at hearing this, and I really felt one of those strong-good-will-Envies! :-) That galician journey of our Queen, it must have been around 1980 / '82 Good week to you all! NP: Caetano Veloso: Cucurrucucu Paloma ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 14:23:50 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Cold Blue Steel I learned CBS&SF on the guitar last night - I don't know why I haven't picked it up before. Anyway, I recall Joni saying that she felt she didn't really have the right voice for that song back then, that it wasn' t weathered enough. Well, I feel a bit like Eric Anderson (or was it Tom Rush - I do not recall) when he said that Joni said The Circle Game sucked and it was, like, one of the best songs he had ever heard. I feel her voice on that song is the siren "Sweet Fire" calling to her captain CBS, leading him to crash on the rocks of heroin. Every time I hear that song, my body tenses a bit at the beginning and then I go into a trance. What a great piece of art. Geesh. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 13:47:56 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Woman of Heart and Mind You just better bite your tongue! What the hell do you mean completed her work??? She will be working still after a lot of us are pushing up daises. At least I hope so anyways. Anyways I know what you mean with the grandkids and all and it was such a beautiful image. I really loved the show very much. I think it should be the video equivalent of an "overture" though. At 90 minutes it was barely enough time to talk about any one piece of her work or life. I think Ms. Lacy should carry on and do the other 11 parts. There were so many moments that struck me so hard. Especially Graham and David talking about her. I love Malva talking about her. Her respect and awe were transparent. The images of Mingus were what made me cry the most, especially his laugh (as I did thru most of program, being a big butch sissy kindofa guy). The beauty was just so amazing. I got to see it the night of with a very dear friend and we both just gushed throughout the whole thing as well as wished for a commercial so we could catch our breath. Mikey taped it for me at home in case I was not able to catch it cause I was suppose to be at a gig (tee hee) and another friend (co-producer from Louisiana JukeBox) just bought a direct to DVD burner and he burned it for me. I can't wait to see the real thing on DVD cause the transmission locally was marred by some horizontal noise in the picture that was a little distracting. I am so happy that so many people are buying up here records and getting turned on to her. Ahhhhhhhhhhh, Paz NP-It Can Happen-Yes > Now, that I've washed my face of the tears streaming down my > face........let's start the thread going........ > That Joni, God I love her honesty..... > loved the ending with the grandbabies. > yeah, she's completed her work > > rosie in nj ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 14:52:11 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Woman of Heart and Mind In a message dated 4/6/03 2:46:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, michael@thepazgroup.com writes: > You just better bite your tongue! What the hell do you mean completed her > work??? I think that's the message she was trying to send to us Mikey, I pray it ain't so though. I hope that love sucks her back in again..... Dear God, please send somebody to Joni, so that she can love/be loved/ write/sing about it. In all seriousness though, I wish her all the best that life has to offer...... she's deserving of that. rosie in NJ In the morning there are lovers in the street They look so high You brush against a stranger And you both apologize ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 14:08:15 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Down to You Kenny I love this song very much and it is very high on my all time list. It is one of my faves to play on piano although I struggle with the transition in one part sometimes and sometimes I do ok. I have a great chart that I did myself of it if you would like me to fax it to you or I can mail it to you if you like. I also have the original sheet music from Court and Spark. Best to you Paz > To all: > In the midst of all this euphoria after the great Joni special, I have a > simple question: is there anyone else out there who loves "Down To You" (from > C&S) as much as me? I think it's so graphic, personal and such an intricate > arrangement..... I've not been a big contributor to this site in the past so > I'm relatively new here. > DTY has been my favorite Joni song for as long as I can remember (at > least 1974, when it came out) and I've been trying to find sheet music for it > so I might try to learn the piano passages in it (I'm a beginner but I try > hard!) I can't locate it anywhere. > Any suggestions appreciated; anyone want to tell me how much you love > that tune also? > > Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:21:32 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Mingus and TS Eliot The definitive story of Joni with Sue and Charlie Mingus in Mexico? Simon collected a very long story about this in an interview + music appearance at KSCA-FM in Glendale, California, USA on October 25, 1994. As luck would have it, I'm making cassettes for Linsay Moon, the JMDL's official transcriber. I'll added it to a collection of cassettes so Lindsay has more to work with. :) While the interviewer is a bit snippy with Joni in several places, Joni was expansive and seemed not to notice. She goes into vivid detail about visiting Charlie Mingus in Mexico. Has everyone heard the bullfight story? The "healer" story? Once Lindsay has her way with this interview, you'll have something to read. Lama dsk wrote:I was also surprised to hear that Sue and Charles lived in a high-rise > apartment building. I always picture Mingus in his wheelchair on a > veranda in a lush environment, as in Joni's painting of him. Maybe they > had two homes, or maybe that painting is mostly Joni's imagining. RR said, "Now Charlie's down in Mexico with the healers" Mingus apparently went to one of the notorious alternative therapy clinics south of the border, hoping for an 11th hour cure. I think that is where these images come from. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:24:21 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: RE: Re: Mingus and TS Eliot Ooops. Linday's already transcribed it. Joni in Mexico: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=883 Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:36:28 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: RE: Re: Mingus and TS Eliot Okay, I have the wrong interview. I don't know which interview it is when she discussed Mingus. One thing I do know: I'll check and double check my facts before I post on this topic! The interview below does include some of her most detailed description of writing lyrics. I can't get enough of that. Example of a dopey question from the interviewer: "Have you done a lot of collaborative songwriting?" Lama > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=883 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:43:47 EDT From: SoulQuest7@aol.com Subject: FILM PERSON SEARCH When we were talking about the FABULOUS Joni documentary, someone said they made documentary films. Who was it? I'm interested in buying some equipment for editing video film and was interested in getting some advice. -==-= om=-=-= Nick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:00:47 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Me and Joni (Addition to the original) After seeing how well received my little essay was, I thought I'd add one thing that I thought of after I sent my original text. Another fan who e-mailed me kind of made me remember this and I thought you all might have enjoyed it: You know, I mentioned how limited the musical abilities are in my immediate family but my mom & dad both used to play when I was a kid, right up to just around the time I was married. My father played guitar, was an electrician by trade and actually made a pick-up and amplified his old acoustic in the '50's, after Les Paul first made history with that stuff. My mom played ukellele (sp?) and piano; we actually had a big old upright in our living room that I plucked around with as a boy. But neither ever even suggested I try to learn anything (very odd, now that I think back) and I guess I showed no interest, so... My folks used to play music at various bars on Long Island (the "clubs" of their day) and one place in Oceanside, "The Cozy Corner" always had a sign in their window, "Madeline & Harold playing here Saturday night". They had a friend, Fred Lucas, who played accordian with them and another guy, "Little Jimmy Dean" who played bass. Most bars had pianos in them in those days; my mom played that and her uke, depending on the tune, and she sang. Mostly all those standards from the '40's and '50's that the rest of the patrons would sing along to. They also played at parties for events within our families; I was lucky enough to get them on a reel-to-reel tape down the basement of an aunt's home in Ridgewood, Brooklyn in the early '60's. They're both gone now, but I thought their story might be fun for you all to read. Kenny B Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:00:49 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: The Woodstock era In a message dated 4/6/03 3:04:34 AM, "theodore" wrote: << Ok I just watched WOHAM and they did say world music. Anyway it was wonderful and well done and I didn't cry. I watched it with my dad. I wanna cry every time she sings Woodstock just because to me that is a mythical time, I was 4 or 3. At one point she says oh I guess give peace a chance was just a dream some of us had. Being a gen xer I have always felt a little let down by the older generation that seemed to have all these great ideals but then just turned around and spit on our generation with like harsh repression, like they were the only ones who could explore or get high and now everyone has to live these straight lame lives and support killing for peace and Reagan and bush and bush. Like the generation X song, "well the ends always justify the means and your generation don't mean a thing to me." The only thing that bugged me about the show is that Joni feels like she doesn't like who she was for people in the sixties. Don't misconstrue that as meaning I don't think she should have moved on, I just don't like the fact that she doesn't like it, I like her regardless. Makes me think of a Velvet Underground song called Sweet Jane that goes, "if some one had a heart, they wouldn't turn around and break it, and if any one ever played a part, they wouldn't turn around and hate it." Wow! Very heavy stuff and I admire the author for his candidness. I almost feel obligated to reply since I was one of those who he feels let him and his generation down. And he's probably right. But you know that expression, goes something like "Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans" ? We had our son two months before Woodstock took place and I always thought that I would have gone to Woodstock if we didn't just have our second kid. But I really wasn't a hippie; maybe just missed that mark by being born a little earlier than most who were. I never did drugs, never even smoked (althought if I had smoked, it would have been pot... at least you got something out of that.) So when I voice my opposition to drugs today, I'm not being hipocritical. I lost some good friends (and the world lost some fine musicians) to drugs. Oh, I don't care about grass; I mean, I like my Johnny Walker Black and my Merlot and a little Cognac after dinner so how can I say you shouldn't smoke grass? But as far as letting anybody down? I've always stood for what I believed in, in spite of the odds. I hate politics and politicians 'cause it's such a dishonest business but trying to change the world is a lonely, and such a steep, uphill battle. I've fought for causes and supported the things I felt were right and, maybe once in a while, we won a few little battles. Don't hate us from my generation for failing to fix all the world's problems. It was a bigger job than any of us thought it would be. I haven't stopped trying; I've just set my sights a little lower. Have a kid, instill some high values, set a good example... hopefully, be proud of the outcome; more than that is beyond anyone's abilities. Kenny B She can really paint too. I wonder of any of you know if her paintings are in galleries or if she has shows for her artwork? My mom and pop watched the show too, they were not hippies, but, both are Joni fans now. I'll have a WOHAM on rye hold the mayo! Ted ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 18:02:41 EDT From: SoulQuest7@aol.com Subject: Re: The Woodstock era << Ok I just watched WOHAM and they did say world music. Anyway it was wonderful and well done and I didn't cry. I watched it with my dad. I wanna cry every time she sings Woodstock just because to me that is a mythical time, I was 4 or 3. At one point she says oh I guess give peace a chance was just a dream some of us had. Being a gen xer I have always felt a little let down by the older generation that seemed to have all these great ideals but then just turned around and spit on our generation with like harsh repression, like they were the only ones who could explore or get high and now everyone has to live these straight lame lives and support killing for peace and Reagan and bush and bush. Like the generation X song, "well the ends always justify the means and your generation don't mean a thing to me." The only thing that bugged me about the show is that Joni feels like she doesn't like who she was for people in the sixties. Don't misconstrue that as meaning I don't think she should have moved on, I just don't like the fact that she doesn't like it, I like her regardless. Makes me think of a Velvet Underground song called Sweet Jane that goes, "if some one had a heart, they wouldn't turn around and break it, and if any one ever played a part, they wouldn't turn around and hate it.">>>> Well, one thing that you may or may not have noticed is that military service is voluntary, not mandatory as it was in the 60s (you could only get a deferment under special circumstances). Also, in the 60s, the age to vote was lowered to 18. We weren't able to get pot legalized, but it still pervades the country anyway. It's legal in the Netherlands, and Europe and Canada seem to be inclined to at least decriminalize it. America is saddled by its puritan contingent, which emphasizes punishment of "undesirable" behavior. There were a lot of changes on college campuses in terms of courses offered, independent studies, and new majors in minority and feminist issues. Women's rights issues (and gay rights issues) came to the foreground because of the liberalization of the 60s. If you don't want to lead a lame, straight life, then move to an area with a progressive/hippie tradition. Madison, Wisconsin, where I live is like that. There may be other places-- Asheville, North Carolina is another. I'm sure there are more. A town with a big college is always good. I'm sure there must be a web site that analyzes such places. Berkeley, California and Ann Arbor, Michigan just popped into mind-- they are supposed to be great. If you don't like the political scene, it's a participatory democracy so do your part. Things don't change unless you can convince the populace that change will help everyone concerned. And politicians don't change unless the public forces them to change. Lastly, some the 60s ideals were just that-- ideals, not always suitable to reality! Even the most liberal, progressive countries have limits. Sometimes the ideals just gave people a chance to experiment, but not all the experiments panned out. Find a place where you can stretch your wings, and go for it! Your life is only as lame as you make it. It's a big country/world/universe-- don't think that you are locked in, or you are. Find a creative outlet, fill your mind with knowledge, and find a spiritual path. That can never be taken away from you, and will be your protection against lameness. And don't march in lockstep with any group or be afraid to change your views. That will guard you against fundamentalism of any stripe. Find the love within yourself and then it won't depend on outside circumstances. Love is peak experience-- try to have one each day. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:15:03 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Good ol' what's his name... In a message dated 4/6/2003 1:57:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, GRISEM@loras.edu writes: > Does anybody know if she looks at all like > Mark MacMath? Hi Emily, There's some video of Brad (not Mark) MacMath in the video trees, I see more Joni genes in Kilauren that Brad genes. And at least you got his last name right, I think it was Janine who referred to him as Mark McGrath, who is the lead singer for Sugar Ray. I'm sure he'd be shocked to hear that he's fathered a child with Joni Mitchell! :~) Thanks for the post - keep 'em coming. Bob NP: Travels With Charley, "Carey" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:17:35 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in Spain In a message dated 4/6/2003 2:13:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, emilianopd@mundo-r.com writes: > That galician journey of our Queen, it must have been around 1980 / '82 > She was also in Spain during her post-Mattala, pre-Blue period...she intro's "California" in one of the live shows by saying it was written partially in Spain, partially in France. Bob NP: Jeff Beck, "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:20:32 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Cold Blue Steel In a message dated 4/6/2003 2:25:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Bobsart48@aol.com writes: > I feel her voice on that song is the siren "Sweet Fire" calling to her > captain CBS, leading him to crash on the rocks of heroin. Her vocal performance IS terrific on this song, Bob. She likes Tim Curry's version better but I am in strict disagreement with her on this front. Unfortunately, the FTR songbook has been sorely neglected in the covers department, so we don't have many to compare it to. It could be that she just nails that vocal SO powerfully that it's intimidating for others to tackle it. Bob NP: Laird Jackson, "Tin Angel" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:50:18 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Moon at the Window Note I checked out the PBS timeline and read the cryptic 'moon at the window' quote from the note to pregnant Joni from Brad MacMath. I don't get it. Does someone have an interpretation they'd care to share? Did he just abandon Joni while she was pregnant? Did he know she was pregnant? Did she know he was planning to leave, or did she just come home and find the note? What's the scoop? I thought I knew all about Joni's story, but the bit of information concerning this note escaped me. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 18:58:12 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: FILM PERSON SEARCH Final Cut is what we use on Louisiana Jukebox. Everyone I know seems to use that even if they have a Media 100 system or Avid. Best Paz > When we were talking about the FABULOUS Joni documentary, someone said they > made documentary films. Who was it? I'm interested in buying some equipment > for editing video film and was interested in getting some advice. -==-= > om=-=-= Nick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:31:09 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Hooked at age 12 In a message dated 4/2/03 2:36:31 AM, Ashara wrote: << > Song to a Seagull is a thing of rare beauty. Joni is absolutely ethereal > throughout. > I agree. This is the album that got me hooked onto Joni. I was hanging with my cousin and she had this album on her little "record player in a box". (Anyone remember those?) At 12 years old, I stopped dead in my tracks and said, "WHO *IS* THAT?????????? The love affair has still lasted all these years. :-) Hugs, Ashara >> I find it facinating to see the wide difference in age groups represented by Joni's fans on this site. Seems like a very diverse group. Yes, I not only remember those old record players but I have some in my collection of Americana. I call it my Nostalgia Museum (my wife calls it something else) but I've even got one of those old 45 rpm only players. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:31:11 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni airplay << Subject: Re: Joni, then and now In a message dated 3/31/2003 11:15:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: > It depends on what you consider to be "the pop world." > Joni made the comments in reference to radio play, of > which she gets none. In that sense, the pop world has > indeed shunned her. Where is she on the dial? Nowhere. And she's in good company. Most of the music I like is not on the radio, hasn't been for about 20 years. She certainly doesn't pander > to the radio formula and never has. >> Bob Actually, Joni got quite a lot of airplay during the years she first "made it" (around 1969) to about the Court & Spark era... at least in the NYC area. After that, NYC radio started a long, slow downhill trend anyway so what could you expect. These days, thank God for WFUV, 90.7 FM (member supported) radio from Fordham University where you can still hear Joni (old and new) as well as other old and new things. For those of you not within tuning range, they stream on the Internet (WFUV.org) in case you'd like to hear it. Saturday and Sunday mid days are usuallly Celtic music but much of the rest of the time it's the kind of stuff most Joni fans might be receptive to, (Hey, not there's anything wrong with Celtic music...) Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:31:12 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Living in remote Canada In a message dated 4/2/03 2:36:31 AM, Catherine wrote: << I never lived there, but I lived in small-town northern Ontario (northern by Toronto standards, but not by Northern Ontario - capital N for a reason - standards) 'til I was 12. We lived right on the edge of town with free run of all the farmer's fields and we'd disappear all day running around like maniacs out there. If you went not too far out of town, there were hills and woods. My Dad's company owned a cabin out in the woods and we'd go there for weekends sometimes. There was no electricity out there. At first the ight came from kerosene lamps and the fridge was a real Ice box - you'd have to go into the village and get a big chunk of ice that would last a few days. There was a big old wood stove - bacon and eggs never tasted better than when they were made on the wood stove. There was a gas-powered generator that was used for getting running water from a well or maybe from right out in the middle of the lake (which is most likely polluted now, but it wasn't then.) You could walk through the woods and pick blueberries, but you had to watch out for bears. There were houses on the drive upthere that could have been right out of the "dueling banjoes" movie (for the life of me, the name escapes me) ===== Catherine Toronto >> I've just had time to catch up on some of the earlier digests and was fascinated by this one, Catherine. Very enjoyable read; it must have been beautiful (at least, sounds good to a boy raised in NYC's borough of Queens.) I used to love visiting my aunt & uncle in Selden, Long Island when there wasn't a traffic light in that town. You should see it now; more malls than you can count. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:53:27 -0700 From: "daville72" Subject: Kids liking Joni Catherine in Toronto wrote: Funny how that works, isn't it? I figure one days my kids will listen to Joni and finally understand what their crackpot mum was up to all those years. ===== Catherine Toronto Hello to the "Joni List" I am new here, just joined after watching Woman of Heart and Mind on Wednesday nite. I was enthralledby that program! I cried, I laughed, I was in heaven. I have been in love with Joni Mitchell for a very long time. But I have been a loner in my love for her. Now through the magic of the internet, I have found a community that shares my love. I wasn't going to share my love with you all quite so soon, I thought I would just lurk abit.....you know how it is....sniff around, get the 'lay of the land' so to speak. But I just couldn't resist after reading the comment (copied above) by Catherine regarding kids finally listening to Joni. I wanted to share that: This has happened for me! My 17 year old daughter actually plays Joni Mitchell! She listened to Blue one night with me and now she listens to that CD often! She watched the PBS special with me and so I expect that eventually she'll listen to them all. It is a great feeling to have your child appreciate an artist that you value so highly. So folks, that's it....my contribution to the list. Thanks for listening. Glorianna G. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:59:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Kids liking Joni --- daville72 wrote: > > > > Hello to the "Joni List" > > I am new here, just joined after watching Woman of > Heart and Mind on Wednesday > nite. I was enthralledby that program! I cried, I > laughed, I was in heaven. > I have been in love with Joni Mitchell for a very > long time. But I have been > a loner in my love for her. Now through the magic > of the internet, I have > found a community that shares my love. Glorianna, welcome to the list - alone no more! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 23:18:15 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Kids liking Joni Welcome Glorianna! Glad you found your way to us and that you felt compelled to share your wonderful post. I have an 18 year old niece who picked up Joni's Hits a year or so ago and just purchased Blue a few days ago. Joni's catalogue certainly stands the test of time. When I was 18, I didn't have the open-mindedness to consider music that was popular 30 years previous. My first Joni was Court and Spark which was 10 years old by the time I got to it. Where does the time go? Welcome again! Ken ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 02:20:45 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: April 7 On April 7 the following items were published: 1997: "Chip off the 'ole block - Joni's Covergirl Has Star Potential" - Toronto Sun (Reunion Story) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=78 1997: "Singer's daughter identified" - Saskatoon StarPhoenix (Reunion Story, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=86 1997: "Web Site Reunites Joni Mitchell and Daughter" - unknown (Reunion Story) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=84 2000: "Both Sides, Literally" - VH1 Website (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=489 2000: "Joni Mitchell Gets Her Just Desserts In New York Tribute Concert" - AllStar Website (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=490 2000: "Stone Temple Pilots Nix Mitchell Tribute, Rock NYC" - MTV Website (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=491 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #121 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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