From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #119 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, April 5 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 119 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Down to You ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Down to You [Susan Guzzi ] Re: Joni & James Update [Stu Rutherford ] Laurel Canyon Home Movies [emil thompson ] Re: Laurel Canyon Home Movies [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni & James Update [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni, then and now [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Covers #39 - Let the games begin! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #118 [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #118 [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #118 [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #118 [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: Stevie Wonder [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #118 [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #118 [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni Mitchell: Woman of Heart & Mind - an informal poll [Warrenkeith9] Re: Joni Mitchell: Woman of Heart & Mind - an informal poll [RoseMJoy@aol] welcome! and Down to You [anne@sandstrom.com] A Woman of Heart and Mind ["Suzanne MarcAurele" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #117 Hello [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Laurel Canyon Home Movies [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: A Case of ? [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: A Case of ? [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Laurel Canyon Home Movies [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni Mitchell: Woman of Heart & Mind - an informal poll [RoseMJoy@aol] Re: Mingus and TS Eliot [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: BBC video [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Blue and such [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Dianna Krall and Elvis Costello SJC [Aerchak@aol.com] Re: Mingus and TS Eliot [dsk ] WOHAM favorite moments [dsk ] Re: Mingus and TS Eliot [Randy Remote ] A Woman Of Heart And Mind ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Mingus and TS Eliot ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Dianna Krall and Elvis Costello SJC ["kerry" ] Re: Mingus and TS Eliot [dsk ] Susan Lacy Got It Right! ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Mingus and TS Eliot ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Laurel Canyon Home Movies ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #117 Hello [Catherine McKay ] Re: Wall to Wall, Part 7 & last - Whew!! ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Joni & James Update [Randy Remote ] Re: Joni, then and now ["Mark or Travis" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 00:02:12 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Down to You > "In the morning there are lovers on the street, > They look so high. > You brush against a stranger and you both apologize" > > Really, like the Hejira songs (and many others), you can just keep > writing out the lyrics as they never stray from perfection. But that > particular passage has always just kicked me in the gut. > That whole bridge section really does it for me, including the lyric you quote, Bob: You go down to the pickup station Cravin warmth and beauty You settle for less than fascination A few drinks later you're not so choosy And the closing lights strip off the shadows On this strange new flesh you've found Clutching the night to you like a fig leaf You hurry to the blackness and the blankets To lay down an impression and your loneliness..... If you've ever gone to a bar, hungry for human physical & spiritual contact and gone through the whole usually demoralizing & humiliating process of flirting, drinking and eventually desparately grabbing at the person who finally responds to you, these words distill that experience succinctly, beautifully and poetically into a fine essence. She read me like a book in this song as she seemed to over and over again in every song on Court & Spark, my first Joni. She's been doing it ever since & I still wonder how the hell she knows what I feel. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 00:15:33 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Down to You Hello Ken ...and welcome, I too was happy to see the new name and felt immediately connected to you. I would say if not in my top ten DTY is very close. I have always LOVED this song. It was one of Joni's first real orchestral arrangements. Not to mention her poetry and her voice on this. I do believe this song won a Grammy for arrangement if i am not mistaken although I cant recall if this award goes to Joni or just the arranger - I am sure someone here would know that. Thanks for sharing and nice to meet you! Peace, Susan NP: Norah Jones/Come Away With Me - --- PassScribe@aol.com wrote: > To all: > In the midst of all this euphoria after the great Joni special, I have a > simple question: is there anyone else out there who loves "Down To You" (from > C&S) as much as me? I think it's so graphic, personal and such an intricate > arrangement..... I've not been a big contributor to this site in the past so > I'm relatively new here. > DTY has been my favorite Joni song for as long as I can remember (at > least 1974, when it came out) and I've been trying to find sheet music for it > so I might try to learn the piano passages in it (I'm a beginner but I try > hard!) I can't locate it anywhere. > Any suggestions appreciated; anyone want to tell me how much you love > that tune also? > > Kenny B Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 12:39:02 +0400 From: Stu Rutherford Subject: Re: Joni & James Update Hi, I'm an English lurker who lives in the UAE chiming in with a few points - * First of all, a great big thanks to Lama for copying cd's and videos for me. What a service to the Joni community! I must admit that when I sent off media and a cheque from the UAE, I was a bit skeptical - was it an Internet ripoff/would the media get stolen in the post or held up at customs? I was a little more worried when Lama said he had sent me 8 Jonifest cd's (which wasn't what I had ordered) - I had no idea what Jonifest was and couldn't believe the quality of the performances, recording and packaging. Thanks to Lama and everyone concerned - these are now amongst my favourite cd's! If there are other newbies on the list, please try to listen to the material - most of it is brilliant! * The state of the list - yes, I couldn't believe how many messages came in and the relevancy of some of them (I guess it's the eye of the beholder). After a while, I got to know a rough idea of the 'senders' whose messages I tended not to be interested in and have filtered these into a place where they belong. * Over here, Virgin/Tower Records etc are not so up to date as in other countries so I read with interest the reviews of 'Travelogue'. To be honest I took the bad reviews with a pinch of salt thinking that maybe the reviewers were traditionalists who weren't 'open'. I still have not seen Travelogue on sale but recently bought 'Both Sides Now' and was completely shocked. I have only played it once and although I know it's crazy to condemn a recording on one hearing, I don't think I'll ever play it again. How does 'Both Sides Now' compare to 'Travelogue' - are the 2 very similar? * Counting Crows - I really like their version of BYT. I always thought Joni's was so unusual in vocal style (at the time) that the magnificent lyrics were lost to the mainstream audience * TNT - I enjoyed watching this (thanks again Lama!) but was disappointed with some of the performers who were not on the show - what happened to Dylan/Young/CSN/Jackson Browne? * I initially got into Joni through listening to a couple of 'Miles of Aisles' tracks on the radio. Prior to that, I'd heard her albums at college in England but had pigeonholed her into the 'folksinger' and 'lonely female student's' music category while I of course was a 'macho guy interested in long haired electric guitar heroes'! My opinion of Joni has changed, I couldn't be macho even if I tried now but I must admit I still like electric guitarists (even if they are not heroes!) Cheers, Stu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:58:49 +0000 From: emil thompson Subject: Laurel Canyon Home Movies Hey I didn't even know these movies existed until now, If any of you out there can point me towards a copy I would gladly do an exchange for my Joni 83 wembley vid. I also want to recommend a BBC radio interview/documentary which is fascinating and about an hour long. Also does anyone have any PERO (planet earth rock'n'roll orchestra) recordings as I think Joni may well be on some them. sending a big UK hello to everyone, maybe oneday they'll show the PBS thing here too. emil ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:18:05 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Laurel Canyon Home Movies In a message dated 4/5/2003 4:59:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, emil@lessismore.co.uk writes: > Also does anyone have any PERO (planet earth rock'n'roll orchestra) > recordings as I think Joni may well be on some them. > Hi Emil, I've got a 4-CD set of "The Perro Recordings", there's not a lot of Joni but certainly some. These were (from my understanding) the sessions that would become Cros' "If I Could Only Remember My Name", so there are alternate takes of "Laughing", which features Joni on backup vocals. It's hard for me to hear her on other tracks becuase Grace Slick's voice is usually more prominent. Bob NP: Ani, "swing" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:27:01 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni & James Update In a message dated 4/5/2003 3:39:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, stuart.rutherford@hct.ac.ae writes: > How does 'Both Sides Now' compare to 'Travelogue' - are the 2 very > similar? They are very similar - Travelogue being the better of the two imo. Most of the same players and Vince Mendoza's arrangements. There ARE some wonderful moments on it. And it's certainly FAR more interesting to hear re-workings of "Otis & Marlena", "You Dream Flat Tires", "The Dawntreader" as opposed to 'done to death' songs like "Stormy Weather", "At Last" etc. although there is certainly a value in hearing them done by Joni. > * TNT - I enjoyed watching this (thanks again Lama!) but was > disappointed with some of the performers who were not on the show - > what happened to Dylan/Young/CSN/Jackson Browne? There could have been conflicts. Of course relations between Joni & Jackson are SO strained that they don't even mention each other. I imagine that if an interviewer brought Jackson Browne up in an interview with Joni, that would be the end of the interview. I'd be surprised if Joni even has any "browne" paint in her studio! :~) > > Prior to that, I'd heard her albums at > college in England but had pigeonholed her into the 'folksinger' and > 'lonely female student's' music category while I of course was a > 'macho guy interested in long haired electric guitar heroes'! Hey, I can relate to that...luckily a couple of those female students kept pushing her my way. Thanks for the post, Stu...hope to hear more from ya'! Bob, still macho as hell NP: Ani, "To The Teeth (Shoot-Out Remix)" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:40:46 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni, then and now In a message dated 4/4/2003 10:57:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: > I don't see how releasing an album of classic American standards > qualifies as a 'collection of ingenue roles' just because two of her > early songs happened to be among them. Really & truly it wasn't HER songs on BSN that I was referring to. Certainly the title track is NOT ingenue; Joni has said repeatedly that it takes a voice of experience to properly present it. On the other hand - songs like "You're My Thrill", "At Last" (at last, my love has come along, my lonely days are over, and life is like a happy song), "Answer Me My Love", seem to DEFINITELY be ingenue songs. And you know there may be more...love songs with a girlish sensibility to them. Now, don't get me wrong - I have NO problem with Joni singing ingenue songs. My point was that she said she didn't want to sing her earlier songs because they were ingenue roles, and then sings somebody else's ingenue songs. So it doesn't make sense to me. I think that closer to the truth is what Joni says about always looking FORWARD and not behind. I think with T'log she enjoyed singing with the orchestra, and wanted to re-present some her own material in that format. OK, so my comment about T'log being Joni juking herself was perhaps not a valid one. It got YOU to post, so I'm still glad I said it! :~) > I think Joni is allowed to re-tool early work. She has a different > perspective and more years of life experience to bring to those songs > and if you listen closely, it really does enhance them. And just to clarify, I totally agree. I just don't think it's consistent with what she's said, that's all. Minor stuff. Bob NP: Ani, "Hurricane" (GREAT Dylan cover) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:48:00 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Covers #39 - Let the games begin! Thanks one last time to everybody who took a stab at getting a free copy of my "Joni Covers, Volume 39" disc. Joining the winner's circle this time 'round are Donna "The Texas Tush" & Chris Treacy. They were the closest to my guess of "Lesson In Survival" from FTR. (Guess I had a little dubya on the brain...) If you didn't win a copy, but want one anyway, let me know and we'll work it out. And stay tuned as we'll move into our 4th decade of Joni covers in a month. Bob NP: Ani, "Little Plastic Castle" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:12:44 EST From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #118 << GaryLewis wrote: > Unfortunately I was not able to watch the special on > Tues. night, so I set up > the VCR to tape it. But somehow all I got was snow > and static. Does anyone > know if it will be aired in the future. Thanks Gary >> Gary, if you don't have a good VCR tape head cleaner, go out and buy one; dirty heads are usually the cause of what you've got. If that doesn't do it, it's probably a trip to the repair shop (or a new VCR- does it pay to fix 'em anymore?) Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:22:12 EST From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #118 To all: I don't know where al those "b's" came from in my "long essay", just posted but I hope you all understand there was a glitch somewhere. I wrote & spellchecked it in PageMaker and then copied/pasted into my AOL e-mail; must have been something lost/added in the translation. Sorry 'bout that! Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:27:35 EST From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #118 << >> wrote: "STAS is on a level way beyond the folk or protest genre of that time..." I agree with all you've written on this one, Ted; still one of my six favorite Joni albums. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:30:34 EST From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #118 In a message dated 4/5/03 3:01:45 AM, les@jmdl.com writes: << OK, here's my question for you all: Does anyone admit to watching it and *not* crying at least once, if not off and on throughout as I did? - - -Fred >> No, but I'll admit I thought I was the only one who *did* until I started to read these posts. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:34:20 EST From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Stevie Wonder In a message dated 4/5/03 3:01:45 AM, les@jmdl.com writes: << "I would rank Stevie Wonder as high as Joni in all of those categories > though that's just me." > > Well, perhaps I need to spend more time with Stevie (the bulk of whose work > I am not familiar with - you know, except the stuff we have all been > exposed to). any suggestion, Victor ? > > Bobsart >> Hey, I can't say that I'm a huge Stevie Wonder fan but if you get a chance, listen to the entire Innervisions album; the music is great, almost a "concept album", and the production values are extraordinary (even on vinyl). Songs In The Key Of Life has some fine moments as well. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:30:34 EST From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #118 In a message dated 4/5/03 3:01:45 AM, les@jmdl.com writes: << OK, here's my question for you all: Does anyone admit to watching it and *not* crying at least once, if not off and on throughout as I did? - - -Fred >> No, but I'll admit I thought I was the only one who *did* until I started to read these posts. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:15:18 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #118 --- PassScribe@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/5/03 3:01:45 AM, les@jmdl.com > writes: > > << OK, here's my question for you all: Does anyone > admit to watching it and > *not* crying at least once, if not off and on > throughout as I did? > > - -Fred > >> > > No, but I'll admit I thought I was the only one > who *did* until I started > to read these posts. > Men should cry more often. It's sexy. But not too often. That's not sexy. Aren't you glad to know you're not freaks though? If everybody cried, then crying is normal (either that, or we're all freaks, but there's safety in numbers.) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:22:17 EST From: Warrenkeith91354@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell: Woman of Heart & Mind - an informal poll Gosh Fred, I didn't cry once during WOHAM ! ( Of course i was unable to watch it since our PBS afiliate, in their infinite wisdom, choose not to air it !) I have been sobbing incessantly every time I attempt to read the posts. I seem to be experiencing a melancholy; which is a strange mix of disapointment in not being able to view the documentary, and being overwhelmed by the beauty of some of the posts. I'm anixious to view it . I'm sure I'll be very emotional when I do, since just listening to her music often brings me to tears... Needless to say, I'm heartbroken that I was unable to experience it with the rest of you JMDLers. Still Jonily Yours, Warren Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:29:43 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell: Woman of Heart & Mind - an informal poll Warren et all...u can view some of the clips here which they say weren't included in the original broadcast, dunno, because i haven't viewed them yet... http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/mitchell_j_footage.html ~rosie in nj NP: Joni, Down to You, Court & Spark In the morning there are lovers in the street They look so high You brush against a stranger And you both apologize ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 06:31:11 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: welcome! and Down to You Welcome, Ken and thanks for revealing so much in your post. I especially enjoyed the moment you and your piano teacher found that you love the same chord. Certain chord do that for me too! Also, a welcome to all the other folks who are posting these days, both new and "de-lurking." I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet. I'm almost positive Down to You won a grammy for Joni and Tom Scott for the instrumental arrangement. (I know, go look in the archives... I'm so bad at that). When I think about it, Joni has worked on so many levels, in such detail and with such amazing results. Her lyrics: most poetic, intelligent lyrics, bar none Her melodies: intricate, groundbreaking, challenging Her textures: she's added layer upon layer over the years - Down to You was, I think, a milestone for her. In looking at it all as a whole, her music started out melodically and lyrically complex, and has become more and more textured over the years. So I guess the orchestral work is really a culmination of that. Still, it would be wonderful to see her take a new direction, explore new territory for her. (OK, so I just want her to write more.) lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:58:46 -0500 From: "Suzanne MarcAurele" Subject: A Woman of Heart and Mind It was especially nice to see Ms. Mitchell enjoying the company of her grandchildren ...on another note... wonders of wonders managed to catch "The Hissing of Summer Lawns" getting airplay on Music Choice ( channel 817 in NYC/NJ area) - could this be a start of a real renaissance in music? S. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:10:44 EST From: Wiloboy@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #117 Hello Thought I'd surface from lurkdom and say hello, I've been trying to keep up with the JMDL since last Oct. Joined a few weeks before Travelogue came out. Really enjoy all your comments. You guys have turned me on to Kyle Eastwwod, Rickie Lee, Ute Lemper and WFUV which I now listen to at work. Thanks! Also thanks to Lama and Bob for making copies for me. I started listening to Joni after watching her PBS concert in 69, ran out and bought Clouds. I've bought every one since but I must admit I did "loose" Joni after Mingus! I would buy the albums as they came out listen a few times and shelve them, except for NRH and CMIARS. Then BSN came out. I had already started listening to Billie Holiday, Ella and Frank (now who would have thought that 20 years ago!) BSN just knocked me out. Funny, this is the album I had waited for all those years, yet if I heard it 20 years ago I wouldn't have liked it. I had read in Rolling Stone that Joan wanted to do 2 more orchestral albums. I waited ... and waited... I lowered my expectations knowing it couldn't be as good as BSN, much to my surprize I loved it. I think it's the greatest! I've read all your comments and I understand where some of you are coming from with the smoking and changes in her voice. It still sounds beautiful to me! More expressive than ever. Anyway... Travelogue has inspired me to relisten to some of the albums I shelved years ago. I'm rediscovering Joni all over again. What a great place to be! I think I'll go watch WOHAM for the third time... Wil ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:12:04 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Laurel Canyon Home Movies "If I Could Only Remember My > Name", so there are alternate takes of "Laughing", which features > Joni on backup vocals. It's hard for me to hear her on other tracks > becuase Grace Slick's voice is usually more prominent. > I bought this on vinyl for the sole reason that it had *both* Joni and Grace on it. They were both my idols at the time. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:47:46 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #117 Hello In a message dated 4/5/2003 11:14:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, Wiloboy@aol.com writes: > Travelogue has inspired me to relisten to some of the albums I > shelved years ago. I'm rediscovering Joni all over again. We've already had some offlist chatter, but I wanted to "officially" welcome you Wil...always good to get more southern boys on the list. And I think that with the broadcast of WOHAM we'll be seeing LOTS of people re-connecting (or perhaps connecting for the first time) to Joni. I hope she's sharing in the joy of these good times. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:52:38 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Laurel Canyon Home Movies In a message dated 4/5/2003 11:45:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: > I bought this on vinyl for the sole reason that it had *both* Joni and > Grace on it. They were both my idols at the time. > So you've gotta LOVE the video from the Dick Cavett show when Grace leads the crowd in a standing O for Joni when she plays her set. Way cool. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:54:13 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: A Case of ? Marianne asks, > -------------> When you hear "A Case of YOU," what kind of "case" > > comes to your mind? > '82 Mouton. Not even my wife gets to know the rest of my dream. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:54:13 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: A Case of ? Marianne asks, > -------------> When you hear "A Case of YOU," what kind of "case" > > comes to your mind? > '82 Mouton. Not even my wife gets to know the rest of my dream. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:52:38 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Laurel Canyon Home Movies In a message dated 4/5/2003 11:45:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: > I bought this on vinyl for the sole reason that it had *both* Joni and > Grace on it. They were both my idols at the time. > So you've gotta LOVE the video from the Dick Cavett show when Grace leads the crowd in a standing O for Joni when she plays her set. Way cool. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:57:02 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell: Woman of Heart & Mind - an informal poll I just called the # to order my copy of WOHAM and I got this automated system which I guess they had to resort to....I had to spell out my town which is difficult as it is Piscataway....I sure hope it arrives here. I ordered my Bruce tix this way and they failed to include my apt.#, thank goodness my mailman knows me with all the boots I receive here on a weekly basis rosie in nj NP: Laura Nyro-Sweet Dream Fade In the morning there are lovers in the street They look so high You brush against a stranger And you both apologize ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 12:28:44 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Mingus and TS Eliot patrick replied > i thought the t.s. eliot idea was directly from mingus, and not from a third > party. think i heard that before, and i think that's what sue mingus said > as well. > > i think sue quoted joni's response as: 'don't think i want to mess with > t.s. > eliot's words' > > patrick > I was listening to Sue Mingus on the radio at the time, on the way to catch the last segment of the show live. I could easily be confusing this with a different attribution from a different time, but in the back of my head I hear someone saying that Joni said she would sooner capsulize the Bible than that poem 9was it Love Song ?). More signs of early Alzheimers on my part? Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 12:49:36 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: BBC video Bob Muller replied: > The thing that strikes me about that video is the transition from the '70 > Pink Dress show, where Joni is just oooozing joy from every pore, to the > '74 > gig where her mouth has that turndown thing going on and she seems a bit > burned out; still, it;s wonderful footage, and a reminder just how good Tom > > Scott is on so many instruments! > > Bob > Funny story. I have that tape (the BBC tape), courtesy of Bob Muller. In our correspondence leading up to my receiving it (with many other goodies) I got the impression that it was just the Pink Dress concert. So, after viewing the 45- minute concert and seeing the closing credit, I rewound and lent it to to friends. Got it back 3 months later, and put it on Thursday night at 11:15, figuring I'd fade off around midnight. I wake up at 12:30, and I'm in the middle of this other concert . What's this ? turns out the tape's over two 2 hours long. So, that keeps me up until 2 am of course, and I'm OkraMan at work the next day - but as Bob said, what a contrast. Turns out both my friend only looked at the Pink Dress concert, too, so I ended up lending it out again ! Taking what Bob M said one step farther, sequencing the Pink Dress, the Miles of Aisles and the S&L footage, then the Refuge video then the big jump to PWW& M provides a pretty insightful overall view of Joni the performer (I have my own images of the second Carnegie hall concert - which came between Pink Dress and MOA - and the BSN tour, too). Really and truly, I could drink a case of her, and still be on my feet. Unlike all the rest of you. ;-) Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:04:22 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Blue and such kenny B wrote: > Blue is actually in a class of its own; I think it is the most > deeply sincere and introspective thing Joni ever did. For some artists, > those > things don't seem to hold up well but in Joni's case, I think her fans are > so > passionate about her and her music, that the deep things are given their > proper respect. When WFUV (member-supported radio in NYC) has its > listener's > polls, Blue always comes out as the favorite Joni album. > > Kenny B > > You must have been listening to Stephen Holden, who was featured prominently on this topic in the AM show Wednesday. His quote on this raw, nerve-tingling compilation was "never before, and never since". ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:21:07 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Re: Dianna Krall and Elvis Costello SJC I had no idea they were engaged. Has anyone ever hear Dianna Krall's version of A Case Of You? She sang it on the TNT tribute and it is on the Live from Paris album. It is incredible, beautiful and simply amazing. Bob, you must add it to your cover collection. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 15:07:09 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Mingus and TS Eliot Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > > I was listening to Sue Mingus on the radio at the time, on the way to catch > the last segment of the show live. I could easily be confusing this with a > different attribution from a different time, but in the back of my head I > hear someone saying that Joni said she would sooner capsulize the Bible than > that poem 9was it Love Song ?). This is how I recall what Sue Mingus said: "Charles got the idea to put T.S. Eliot's Four Quartets to music and have Joni adapt the words. Word got back to us very quickly through Joni's representatives that Joni was not interested. She said she'd just as soon paraphrase the Bible as touch Eliot. So Charles thought about it and came up with the idea to have Joni put words to some of his music, and she was contacted again, and said yes." The one phrase I'm completely certain about is "paraphrase the Bible" because I remember thinking that sounds exactly like what sharp-witted Joni would say. Sue then went on to say that Charles' usual way of composing was on the piano, but he was not able to do that anymore, so he suggested humming his tunes (? not sure if that's the word Sue used) into a tape recorder, and then Joni took those recordings and worked out the words, and then they'd get together and go over them. Mingus died before the album was finished. He wasn't on his death bed when he met Joni, but he was in a wheelchair because of ALS, and knew death was not far off. It seems I've read somewhere that the project with Joni started about six months before his death. Sue Mingus also talked about the song "Chair in the Sky" saying that when Joni first met Mingus it was at their home on the 40th floor and he was in his wheelchair. "So Joni took that image and imagined what Charles was thinking he would miss most as he was preparing to meet his maker, and when Charles heard the lyrics he was impressed that Joni was sensitive enough to get it right, and he knew he'd made the right choice of Joni as his collaborator." The phrase I remember most clearly from that bit was Sue Mingus describing Charles as "preparing to meet his maker". It made me think what a special time it must have been for Joni, in a spiritual way, as well as a musical one. I was also surprised to hear that Sue and Charles lived in a high-rise apartment building. I always picture Mingus in his wheelchair on a veranda in a lush environment, as in Joni's painting of him. Maybe they had two homes, or maybe that painting is mostly Joni's imagining. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 15:43:23 -0500 From: dsk Subject: WOHAM favorite moments There are many memorable moments. The whole show was so elegantly done, so Joni-ish! I loved the way the music and images and voices all fit together so seamlessly. And seeing the early performances was such a treat. I held my breath during Blue so I wouldn't miss anything. And, as other people have already mentioned, all the bits of info about her creative process were wonderful, too. Sounds like she could easily get into the creative zone where time stops and the outside world ceases to exist. I liked Nash's mention of the push and pull, the come here, stay away (while I create), of the creative life. And I was impressed again by Joni's willingness to stay open to whatever she was feeling, no matter how painful it was. One of my favorite moments was when they showed a photo of the house Joni grew up in. My first thought when I saw that big rectangular picture window was, there's Joni's frame for her paintings. Then I laughed at her zippy comment about her thoughts as a kid when she looked out that window, "Here they come where they going?" Funny and very charming. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 12:40:31 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Mingus and TS Eliot dsk wrote:I was also surprised to hear that Sue and Charles lived in a high-rise > apartment building. I always picture Mingus in his wheelchair on a > veranda in a lush environment, as in Joni's painting of him. Maybe they > had two homes, or maybe that painting is mostly Joni's imagining. "Now Charlie's down in Mexico with the healers" Mingus apparently went to one of the notorious alternative therapy clinics south of the border, hoping for an 11th hour cure. I think that is where these images come from. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:49:12 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: A Woman Of Heart And Mind Sure I got a little choked up. I got choked up earlier than I thought I would. My favorite era was from "Blue" through all those fan-damn-tastic jazz albums. So when Lacey took us through moving as a kid, losing Kilauren, struggling through the coffeehouse tours, going to America, the whole time I was thinking..... "yeah, but this isn't my favorite part. She became so many different artists after this." Then that wonderful quote from Elliot about have a body of work before her debut. Then she brought her parents to Carnegie Hall in 1969....... Even before she made "BLUE". Well, that did it. Holy cow. She had "done it all" before she made "BLUE"! Before she hired the LA Express. Before she was shunned by Miles. Before she found Herbie. You get the idea. On and on. Holy. I was right but I didn't know how right I was. I'm proud to have known she's worth following for the last 30 years. Damn straight. The timeline, of which Deb Messling spoke is at: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/mitchell_j.html If you were "there" a few weeks ago, you may have to delete all your "cookies" or force your browser to "refresh". I think it's the same URL that had just a couple of paragraphs until last week. To hit the Timeline directly, use this: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/mitchell_j_timeline_flash.h tml Holy cow. Messling was right about finding a gem on that timeline! Thanks, Deb. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 12:54:45 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Mingus and TS Eliot > Word > got back to us very quickly through Joni's representatives that Joni > was > not interested. She said she'd just as soon paraphrase the Bible as > touch Eliot. What I remember is Joni saying 'I'd sooner condense the Bible'. > I was also surprised to hear that Sue and Charles lived in a high-rise > apartment building. I always picture Mingus in his wheelchair on a > veranda in a lush environment, as in Joni's painting of him. Maybe > they > had two homes, or maybe that painting is mostly Joni's imagining. 'Manhattan holds me To a chair in the sky With the Bird in my ears And boats in my eyes Goin by....' The painting you're thinking of is on the back of the Mingus album and is called something like 'Charlie Down in Mexico' and goes with the line 'now Charlie's down in Mexico with the healers' so I always assumed he was down there for some kind of treatment. I think the paintings for Mingus are the most powerful of any that have been on one of Joni's albums. The painting 'Chair in the Sky' in particular. Also the painting of Joni with Mingus called 'I's a-Muggin' must have come from that photograph of Joni and Mingus that somebody else mentioned seeing in WOHAM. That is one of the most stunning photos of Joni I have ever seen. She has her hair braided and put up on the sides of her head. She could have looked like Princess Leia or a Bavarian milkmaid but she doesn't. She looks wholesome and incredibly sophisticated at the same time. And there is a look on her face like she is having the time of her life. It's obvious that there was some kind of special bond between her and Mingus. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:13:13 -0600 From: "kerry" Subject: Re: Dianna Krall and Elvis Costello SJC Andrea wrote: > Has anyone ever hear Dianna Krall's version > of A Case Of You? She sang it on the TNT tribute and it is on the Live from > Paris album. It is incredible, beautiful and simply amazing. Bob, you must > add it to your cover collection. Ironically, I was listening to the TNT tribute when I read your message. I had the opportunity to hear her perform ACOY in Auckland while I was sitting next to my sweetie. New Zealanders are so polite, you could have heard a pin drop. I don't think I moved or took a breath during the whole song... "The memory is like the sweetest pain..." - JT Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 16:12:44 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Mingus and TS Eliot Mark or Travis wrote: > > > She said she'd just as soon paraphrase the Bible as > > touch Eliot. > > What I remember is Joni saying 'I'd sooner condense the Bible'. Did Joni say that in WOHAM? I was relating what Sue Mingus had said at the recent Wall to Wall Joni marathon. So, has a recording of that wondrous 12-hour extravaganza surfaced yet? > The painting you're thinking of is on the back of the Mingus album and > is called something like 'Charlie Down in Mexico' and goes with the > line 'now Charlie's down in Mexico with the healers' so I always > assumed he was down there for some kind of treatment. Oh, yes, I remember now, thanks to your and Randy's mention of this. The album Mingus was never one of my favorites, although I've always liked the paintings and after hearing the Mingus Big Band perform the songs, have more of an appreciation of those now. Maybe it's time to pull out the old vinyl and give it another spin. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:16:15 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Susan Lacy Got It Right! http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/mitchell_j_interview.html is the interview with Susan Lacy. The way I read it, she's been executive producer of the American Masters series, hiring filmmakers and so on, for years. She took the helm of Joni's project herself. I can only guess that this project was too important to delegate. :) Susan's one of us. (Are you lurking, Ms. Lacy? "You done good, kid.") The PBS timeline for 1979 says, correctly: "1979 MINGUS [was] released to positive response but no airplay from either jazz or pop/rock stations." I didn't know that the 1983 band had a name. Hmmm. Also: What's the most expensive album to date? The answer surprised me. I guess 'cause she was piling up billable hours in a studio. Lama Off to work on the 15 year old Volvo. With more than a quarter-million miles, it easily passes the emissions test. The engine has never been rebuilt. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:38:06 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Mingus and TS Eliot > Did Joni say that in WOHAM? I was relating what Sue Mingus had said at > the recent Wall to Wall Joni marathon. No Joni didn't say that in WOHAM but I recall reading it. I did research it when I wrote the article that Les published on the JMDL site and I'm fairly certain she said something close to that in more than one interview. > Maybe it's time to > pull out the old vinyl and give it another spin. > Joni is always worth another spin and Mingus has a tendency to improve with the passage of time, imo. Not that I ever thought it was bad to begin with. But my appreciation of it has grown over time. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:39:58 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Laurel Canyon Home Movies >> I bought this on vinyl for the sole reason that it had *both* Joni >> and Grace on it. They were both my idols at the time. >> > > So you've gotta LOVE the video from the Dick Cavett show when Grace > leads the crowd in a standing O for Joni when she plays her set. Way > cool. > Oh, I think I shouted out loud the first time I saw that. Grace was on her feet before anybody else. She said in her book that she has huge respect and awe for Joni. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 17:42:37 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #117 Hello --- Wiloboy@aol.com wrote: > Thought I'd surface from lurkdom and say hello, I've > been trying to keep up > with the JMDL since last Oct. Joined a few weeks > before Travelogue came out. > Really enjoy all your comments. You guys have > turned me on to Kyle > Eastwwod, Rickie Lee, Ute Lemper and WFUV which I > now listen to at work. > Thanks! Also thanks to Lama and Bob for making > copies for me. Stick around long enough and you'll go broke buying all this music - but there are worse, far worse, things to spend your money on. >BSN just knocked > me out. Funny, this is > the album I had waited for all those years, yet if I > heard it 20 years ago I > wouldn't have liked it. Funny how that works, isn't it? I figure one days my kids will listen to Joni and finally understand what their crackpot mum was up to all those years. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 18:13:55 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #118 yes ... i admit ... i did not shed one tear. actually, i guess i cannot see why one would shed tears over this program (WOHAM) - she said naively. joni did not die. she is not finis. i've never been one to get all mushy over stuff. heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 10:15 AM To: PassScribe@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #118 --- PassScribe@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/5/03 3:01:45 AM, les@jmdl.com > writes: > > << OK, here's my question for you all: Does anyone > admit to watching it and > *not* crying at least once, if not off and on > throughout as I did? > > - -Fred > >> > > No, but I'll admit I thought I was the only one > who *did* until I started > to read these posts. > Men should cry more often. It's sexy. But not too often. That's not sexy. Aren't you glad to know you're not freaks though? If everybody cried, then crying is normal (either that, or we're all freaks, but there's safety in numbers.) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:27:33 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Wall to Wall, Part 7 & last - Whew!! > And there's black babies dancing > Tonight > (And she adds "Don & Me" on the S&L version) On S&L she further alters this line: And there were two brand new little musicians dancing there Tonight For what it's worth. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 21:09:53 EST From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #118 In a message dated 4/5/03 6:15:13 PM, chiaroscuro@snet.net writes: << yes ... i admit ... i did not shed one tear. actually, i guess i cannot see why one would shed tears over this program (WOHAM) - she said naively. joni did not die. she is not finis. i've never been one to get all mushy over stuff. heather >> Hummmm... interesting. Of course, we're all different so it shouldn't surprise anyone that we all are affected differently by various stimuli. As far as why anyone would? It's not that anyone died or is "finished"; it's really not a sad thing in this case. It's like why people cry at weddings, the birth of a child, things like that... emotional moments. I can go to a wedding and not cry at all, especially if the people getting married aren't very close to me. But if it's someone I've been close to all my life, or the daughter of a friend who I've known since we went to high school together... it hits you differently. I watched her grow from a baby to a woman and now she's starting a new life with someone she loves. I feel something from that. I guess your emotional threshold is just different than mine. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 21:52:24 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Mingus and TS Eliot Debra wrote > I was also surprised to hear that Sue and Charles lived in a high-rise > apartment building. I always picture Mingus in his wheelchair on a > veranda in a lush environment, as in Joni's painting of him. Maybe they > had two homes, or maybe that painting is mostly Joni's imagining. > I wonder if the scene had something to do with Mexico. Did JM visit him there ? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:38:22 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni & James Update --- Stu Rutherford wrote: > Hi, > > I'm an English lurker who lives in the UAE chiming > in with a few points - > > * First of all, a great big thanks to Lama for > copying cd's and videos > for me. What a service to the Joni community! I > must admit that when > I sent off media and a cheque from the UAE, I > was a bit skeptical - > was it an Internet ripoff/would the media get > stolen in the post or > held up at customs? Welcome, Stu. There are a great many generous people on this list. I agree, it's amazing, you send money off into strange territory and you get CDs back in the mail. I'm amazed that they get through the mail and through customs too, but they do. > * The state of the list - yes, I couldn't believe > how many messages > came in and the relevancy of some of them (I > guess it's the eye of > the beholder). It has been extremely busy around here lately; not that it's ever very quiet. There has even been a lot of Joni content lately (fancy that!), although I enjoy the njc as well. Another lister said, not too long ago, that it's kind of like a pub where you go to hang out with your friends - mostly friends you've never met (which brings to mind - who said this? - there are no strangers; just friends you've never met. Was it Will Rogers? Forrest Gump? Barney the purple dinosaur? Confucius?) > I still > have not seen Travelogue on sale but recently > bought 'Both Sides Now' > and was completely shocked. I have only played > it once and although I > know it's crazy to condemn a recording on one > hearing, I don't think > I'll ever play it again. > > How does 'Both Sides Now' compare to 'Travelogue' - > are the 2 very > similar? My guess is, if you don't like BSN, you probably won't like Travelogue. I could be mistaken though - with Travelogue, it's Joni singing all her own songs, but in a similar (very similar) style to that of BSN. If you can picture (or hear) that, and it sounds interesting, you should try it (it has the bonus of a great package with a book of lyrics and another of Joni's art; and if you put/play the CD(s) in your computer, you also get a Joni art gallery to stroll through as you listen.) If that doesn't appeal, save your pennies for another day. Stay safe in the UAE. NP My dog yipping in her sleep (dog dreams.) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 11:59:42 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni & James Update Stu Rutherford wrote: > I still > have not seen Travelogue on sale but recently bought 'Both Sides Now' > and was completely shocked. I have only played it once and although I > know it's crazy to condemn a recording on one hearing, I don't think > I'll ever play it again. Stu, you're not alone. There seem to be three reactions to BSN: 1. ick 2. nice, if flawed addition to Joni canon 3. devine I've only played mine once or twice so you can guess which group I'm in. You asked: How does 'Both Sides Now' compare to 'Travelogue' - are the 2 very similar? In style they are very much the same, T'log being of course 2 discs of Joni compostions, so that helps a bit, I guess. I've only labored through that one once, too. Arranger Mendoza's gaudy schmaltz mixed with what's left of Joni's voice made it tough going for me. Anyway, welcome to the list, nice variety of topics in your post. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 20:23:13 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni, then and now > On the other hand - songs like "You're My Thrill", "At Last" (at > last, my love has come along, my lonely days are over, and life is > like a happy song), "Answer Me My Love", seem to DEFINITELY be > ingenue songs. And you know there may be more...love songs with a > girlish sensibility to them. Hmm... Well I suppose you have a point. But somehow Billie Holiday, Etta James and Nat King Cole didn't make them sound girlish. > > And just to clarify, I totally agree. I just don't think it's > consistent with what she's said, that's all. Minor stuff. > I suppose we could go round and round about this. I do see your point. I'm certainly glad there isn't somebody keeping track of everything I say and then calling me on the carpet about it later when I *seem* to contradict myself. One of the pitfalls of celebrity I suppose. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #119 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)