From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #109 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, March 31 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 109 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: JMDL P2P ["theodore" ] Re: Song to a Seagull [Bob Shemkovitz ] Re: Song to a Seagull [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Song to a Seagull [Jerry Notaro ] early joni [twoshoes@sasktel.net] FW: Song to a Seagull ["theodore" ] pat riots (sjc) ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Joni, then and now [Little Bird ] RE: Joni, then and now ["theodore" ] re: sisotowbell lane ["mia ortlieb" ] Re: sisotowbell lane [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni, then and now [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: sisotowbell lane [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: sisotowbell lane [Little Bird ] Re: Joni, then and now [Little Bird ] RE: Joni, then and now ["theodore" ] Re: Joni, then and now [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Joni, then and now [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Joni, then and now / cbc woman of heart and mind [magsnbrei ] Re: Now that we have all done our one hand clapping routines [Randy Remot] re: sisotowbell lane [Catherine McKay ] Fwd: RE: Joni Mitchell: Both Sides Now and Then [Catherine McKay ] STAS memories [BRIANASYMES@aol.com] Joni, then and now ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Joni, then and now [Little Bird ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 05:47:24 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: JMDL P2P This rocks! - -----Original Message----- From: Les Irvin [mailto:ljirvin@jmdl.com] Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 11:17 PM To: theodore@buckfush.org; phaskins@swbell.net; kellerfrau@gmx.de; lori@lrfye.lunarpages.com; dleong99@wideopenwest.com; michael@thepazgroup.com; SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: JMDL P2P Ladies and gentlemen... Welcome to the next generation of music trading - the JMDL p2p file sharing hub. Thanks for your early interest. You... 1) Are able to install and configure software, and know the intricacies of burning your own CDs. 2) Have a broadband, always-on connection to the Internet. (You can install and connect on a dial-up but it'll take you 6 months to download a CD and you'll have to give up your telephone :-) 3) Are willing to share music as well as receive it. 4) Have a gig or 2 (at least) of extra hard drive space. Here's how to get started (very, very briefly... contact me with questions): Pick up the "DirectConnect" file-sharing software here: Windows users: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/dcplusplus/DCPlusPlus-0.24.exe?downlo ad Mac users need to grab a slightly different version here: http://www.networkingfiles.com/FileShar/Directconnect.htm Initially, during the install, you'll need to choose a nickname. Look to the "settings" option to configure this. OK... fire up the program and set up a new "favorite" hub (CTRL-F) that points to this address: jmdl.no-ip.info:411 Click "connect" and with a bit of luck... you are on. You should now be able to browse user's files and download them (right-click on a user's name for these options). There's a user named "TheBoss" who will almost always be on. In his "documents" directory is a file named "++SHARING++". Download it! It's essential and will answer many of your questions. As you probably know, p2p CDs are usually offered in the compressed (but lossless) format of SHN or FLAC. Once downloaded, you use freeware (available at the hub) to convert them back to WAV files, which you then burn to CD. There are a number of things online now, with more to come on a consistent basis. If there is something you are looking for and I have it, let me know. I'd be happy to provide it. The hope is that as people join up and download they will, in turn, offer shows as well. Thanks again for your interest and for helping me test this. Comments and suggestions are always welcome. Write me with questions or use the chat window at the hub (if I'm there)... Have fun! Les ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:33:47 -0500 From: Bob Shemkovitz Subject: Re: Song to a Seagull I was glad to find the recent posts from Andrew, Kate & Kerry in this morning's digests - it's nice to be reminded that there are others out there who find this album so meaningful. Song to a Seagull is a thing of rare beauty. Joni is absolutely ethereal throughout. There is such a timeless quality to these songs - in spite of all the references to 20th century artifacts like drip dry and light bills and meter maids and neon nights, I always have the sense that these songs could have been written a thousand years ago. They're like a voice from days gone by, echoing through the years and finding us in the here and now, giving voice to the eternal needs and desires and turmoils of the human condition. I know what you mean about goosebumps, Kate, I often have that response to this album. The emotional and psychic content of these songs strike so deep a chord. The beauty of The Dawntreader, the despair of Marcie, the idylls of Michael from Mountains, the aching and longing of the title song, every emotion from the joyful to the bittersweet, it's all so heartfelt and intense, and Joni conveys it all so well. And just on a purely aesthetic level, the poetry of her lyrics is so far beyond anything I've ever heard from a "pop" artist, even by Dylan, Lennon, Chrissie, or Neil, it just puts Joni in a category all her own. This album is one of those precious gifts to be grateful for. And I agree with you, Andrew - listening to it on a beautiful spring day is a highly recommended! About 60 hours to go for Heart & Mind, and I'm jonesing with the rest of you... Bob in CT Fold your fleet wings, I have brought some dreams to share A dream that you love someone A dream that the wars are done A dream that you tell no one but they grey sea - They'll say that you're crazy! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:45:44 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Song to a Seagull In a message dated 3/31/2003 9:33:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, bshemkovitz@bozzutos.com writes: > Song to a Seagull is a thing of rare beauty. It is an amazing debut...as I've said before, I was a latecomer to it as I didn't get it until after I joined up with this group in '98. I was thinking that it was all going to be in Joni's "Helium" voice, so I was pleasantly surprised in "I Had A King" when she sang the word "brown" in a deep, rich alto. I loved it all from listen #1 with the exception of "Pirate Of Penance", which I still think is a pretty weak inclusion, especially when she had so many songs in her (still unreleased) collection that were superior. Bob NP: Joni, "Furry Sings The Blues" 8/21/79 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:46:54 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Song to a Seagull I've always found it sad that Joni herself despairs this part of her career, referring to it as her helium voice period. It was the voice of youth, beauty, hope, and filled with the joy of life like no other from its time. Jerry Bob Shemkovitz wrote: >I was glad to find the recent posts from Andrew, Kate & Kerry in this >morning's digests - it's nice to be reminded that there are others out there >who find this album so meaningful. > >Song to a Seagull is a thing of rare beauty. Joni is absolutely ethereal >throughout. > >There is such a timeless quality to these songs - in spite of all the >references to 20th century artifacts like drip dry and light bills and meter >maids and neon nights, I always have the sense that these songs could have >been written a thousand years ago. They're like a voice from days gone by, >echoing through the years and finding us in the here and now, giving voice >to the eternal needs and desires and turmoils of the human condition. > >I know what you mean about goosebumps, Kate, I often have that response to >this album. The emotional and psychic content of these songs strike so deep >a chord. The beauty of The Dawntreader, the despair of Marcie, the idylls of >Michael from Mountains, the aching and longing of the title song, every >emotion from the joyful to the bittersweet, it's all so heartfelt and >intense, and Joni conveys it all so well. > >And just on a purely aesthetic level, the poetry of her lyrics is so far >beyond anything I've ever heard from a "pop" artist, even by Dylan, Lennon, >Chrissie, or Neil, it just puts Joni in a category all her own. This album >is one of those precious gifts to be grateful for. And I agree with you, >Andrew - listening to it on a beautiful spring day is a highly recommended! > >About 60 hours to go for Heart & Mind, and I'm jonesing with the rest of >you... > >Bob in CT > >Fold your fleet wings, I have brought some dreams to share >A dream that you love someone >A dream that the wars are done >A dream that you tell no one but they grey sea - >They'll say that you're crazy! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:22:47 -0600 From: twoshoes@sasktel.net Subject: early joni > From: "Kerry Berghoff" > Subject: Song to a Seagull > > I would have to agree with Little Bird. I absolutely love Joni's early work, > the clarity of the sound, the innocence and newness of her sound. I regularly > play these early treats, and I'm glad someone else has been enjoying them, > too! I've "discovered" them only recently, when I played J's albums from One to the Latest in order to make a tape sampling for a friend. J's first four albums are stunning and so "clean" and are getting played around here quite a bit. And my friend is going out to buy more Joni CDs. Heh Heh Heh My heinous plan worked. There must be something in the air, because last time I went to Saskatoon, my closest friend had purchased a Joni CD and was actually playing it several times when I walked into her house. We were roomies back in the late '70s and I played so much Joni that my friend couldn't stand her. And now this! Weird. But wonderful. Kate du Nord - -- http://xoetc.antville.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:36:50 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: FW: Song to a Seagull I just got these songs yesterday. I like clouds and songs to a seagull. I tend to like all the earlier work groups or artists do. Joni is no exception. Songs to a seagull is great, her voice and guitar playing is unrivaled. The fiddle and the drum! Oh my god this is the greatest. I like Nathan La Franeer. No one was doing stuff like this back then or even now. She reminds of british mod psyche groups like Fairfield Parlour, or early Syd Barrett, they were most likely influenced by her. This goes beyond folk or folk rock it's truly poetry in motion. I like songs to aging children, roses blue, gallery, I had a king, I used to go and see jewel kilcher at a little coffee house in pacific beach for free, every Thursday at the inner change. I watched the place get busier and busier, all of sudden there were people in suits and then jewel got signed. Joni blows her away, just flat smokes anyone I've heard try to play acoustic folk in the last twenty years. It really takes balls as a performer to be that unique and sing out that strongly in such a weird, haunting way, and she ties everything together and makes it work. I really had just heard her "hits" before. I joined this list after hearing her version of Woodstock for the first time, such a powerful, piercing, work, and, really one of those things that really puts the world in perspective for you. I don't like the CSN version the lyric is garbled and their guitar work stinks ... anyway... I don't understand why nash ever left the hollies, look through any window, bus stop, carrie ann, and the hollies drummer is a genius. Just my opinion. Ted - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Notaro Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 6:47 AM To: Bob Shemkovitz Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Song to a Seagull I've always found it sad that Joni herself despairs this part of her career, referring to it as her helium voice period. It was the voice of youth, beauty, hope, and filled with the joy of life like no other from its time. Jerry Bob Shemkovitz wrote: >I was glad to find the recent posts from Andrew, Kate & Kerry in this >morning's digests - it's nice to be reminded that there are others out there >who find this album so meaningful. > >Song to a Seagull is a thing of rare beauty. Joni is absolutely ethereal >throughout. > >There is such a timeless quality to these songs - in spite of all the >references to 20th century artifacts like drip dry and light bills and meter >maids and neon nights, I always have the sense that these songs could have >been written a thousand years ago. They're like a voice from days gone by, >echoing through the years and finding us in the here and now, giving voice >to the eternal needs and desires and turmoils of the human condition. > >I know what you mean about goosebumps, Kate, I often have that response to >this album. The emotional and psychic content of these songs strike so deep >a chord. The beauty of The Dawntreader, the despair of Marcie, the idylls of >Michael from Mountains, the aching and longing of the title song, every >emotion from the joyful to the bittersweet, it's all so heartfelt and >intense, and Joni conveys it all so well. > >And just on a purely aesthetic level, the poetry of her lyrics is so far >beyond anything I've ever heard from a "pop" artist, even by Dylan, Lennon, >Chrissie, or Neil, it just puts Joni in a category all her own. This album >is one of those precious gifts to be grateful for. And I agree with you, >Andrew - listening to it on a beautiful spring day is a highly recommended! > >About 60 hours to go for Heart & Mind, and I'm jonesing with the rest of >you... > >Bob in CT > >Fold your fleet wings, I have brought some dreams to share >A dream that you love someone >A dream that the wars are done >A dream that you tell no one but they grey sea - >They'll say that you're crazy! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:46:33 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: pat riots (sjc) Patriots, Not sure? In your "search for truth and beauty," your "whole life though," when half the world maybe has you somewhat confused, what do you do??? - --------> Stick to your basic morals of wrong and right. And, try to take a stand. Inaction can be complicity. <---------- With Love, Marianne >Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 18:35:53 -0800 >From: "Kate Bennett" >Subject: teddy says njc >Theodore Roosevelt said: "Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official, save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiently or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country. In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth, whether about the president or anyone else."< --------------- _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:06:36 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Joni, then and now I think one of the reasons Joni distances herself from her earlier work goes back to this point she always makes about playing "ingenue roles" - comparing her early days to the early roles that actresses play. I think she must get very tired of being held up to that standard, particularly when she sees so much growth in her work since then: "An actress is not expected to continue to play her ingenue roles. I've written roles for myself to grow into gracefully, but there is no 'growing into gracefully' in the pop world." - Joni She's expressed frustration with fans and with record executives who constantly want her to be that old Joni. But imagine Joni singing songs like Sisotowbell Lane today? It just wouldn't work. It would be almost ridiculous. Her voice has changed, her style has changed, her ideas have changed. I think she compared it to people wanting to keep her in training wheels when she's capable of riding a 15 speed bike. She also mentions in the new documentary how the day after she won two Grammys for 1994's Turbulent Indigo a local paper did an article called "Grammy Winners - Then and Now" and Joni was in the "then" category. This is THE DAY AFTER she had just won two Grammys in the 1990s - does that not make her an "artist of the 90s?" I can see why she gets frustrated with constantly being called "that folk singer from the 70s" when she has such fantastic albums that are leaps and bounds from that body of work. I'm glad we have Joni's first four albums. I'm overjoyed! But I'm also glad we have Hissing, DJRD, Mingus, Night Ride Home, Turbulent Indigo and Both Sides Now. There have been so many versions of Joni, so many musical incarnations, that I really feel so lucky to have it all! - -Andrew Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:33:14 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: Joni, then and now I haven't heard the later stuff yet, there is a great body of work there, send me some direction i.e. song list. Artists see their work from one perspective. My own stuff is way different from what originally crept from the garage when I was 17; however that style is more popular today than it was then. If those are training wheels I'm falling off my trike! Ted - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Little Bird Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 8:07 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Joni, then and now I think one of the reasons Joni distances herself from her earlier work goes back to this point she always makes about playing "ingenue roles" - comparing her early days to the early roles that actresses play. I think she must get very tired of being held up to that standard, particularly when she sees so much growth in her work since then: "An actress is not expected to continue to play her ingenue roles. I've written roles for myself to grow into gracefully, but there is no 'growing into gracefully' in the pop world." - Joni She's expressed frustration with fans and with record executives who constantly want her to be that old Joni. But imagine Joni singing songs like Sisotowbell Lane today? It just wouldn't work. It would be almost ridiculous. Her voice has changed, her style has changed, her ideas have changed. I think she compared it to people wanting to keep her in training wheels when she's capable of riding a 15 speed bike. She also mentions in the new documentary how the day after she won two Grammys for 1994's Turbulent Indigo a local paper did an article called "Grammy Winners - Then and Now" and Joni was in the "then" category. This is THE DAY AFTER she had just won two Grammys in the 1990s - does that not make her an "artist of the 90s?" I can see why she gets frustrated with constantly being called "that folk singer from the 70s" when she has such fantastic albums that are leaps and bounds from that body of work. I'm glad we have Joni's first four albums. I'm overjoyed! But I'm also glad we have Hissing, DJRD, Mingus, Night Ride Home, Turbulent Indigo and Both Sides Now. There have been so many versions of Joni, so many musical incarnations, that I really feel so lucky to have it all! - -Andrew Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:00:21 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: sisotowbell lane Bob wrote: "Sisotowbell Lane is an interesting song...I wonder if it's about a place that Joni actually experienced, or a place she imagined. I mean, I know the NAME is fictitious, just wondering what she's referencing." I alway thought that Joni was referencing a time or a place for pregnant unwed mothers -- imagined or real, I do not know. The biggest clue that I see is the repeated reference to "rocking chairs"... and the line that "Noah is fixing a pump in the rain, he brings us no shame, we always knew that he always knew" indicates that this man, Noah, is not judgemental of the character's out-of-wedlock pregnancy. Also, the last line "we wait for you" indicates to me that the character is just waiting out the time until the baby is born. This is such a lovely song, with such unique guitar fingering. Mia - who is "waiting" anxiously for Wednesday to come to view the PBS American Masters series. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:31:07 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: sisotowbell lane In a message dated 3/31/2003 12:00:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, hvnphun16@hotmail.com writes: > Also, the last line "we wait for you" indicates to me that > the character is > just waiting out the time until the baby is born. Boy, that seems so obvious after hearing it that I feel like an idiot for not thinking about it. It also makes sense that Sisotowbell stands for "Somehow in spite of trouble ours will be ever lasting love", the "trouble" being the process of being born into a single-parent home. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:39:09 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni, then and now In a message dated 3/31/2003 11:06:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: > Her voice has changed, her style has > changed, her ideas have changed. I think she compared > it to people wanting to keep her in training wheels > when she's capable of riding a 15 speed bike. While I agree with her logic, I find it humorous that after she paraded this quote around in interviews after TTT, her next project was a collection of "ingenue roles" (BSN) and then her NEXT project was to "jukebox" herself, going back and reworking her previously recorded songs, even back to her first record! It would seem that she's saying one thing & doing another, although I'm sure she would rationalize her way around the question. In any event, I don't intend it as a criticism, merely as an observation. Bob NP: Don's Solo, 8/13/79 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:53:34 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: sisotowbell lane Mr. Muller writes: << It also makes sense that Sisotowbell stands for "Somehow in spite of trouble ours will be ever lasting love", the "trouble" being the process of being born into a single-parent home. >> Me -- DUH! -- too! Plus the term "in trouble" was used to describe a pregnant, unmarried woman in those days. I haven't felt so stupid since, well "Little Green!" Thanks, Mia! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:30:37 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: sisotowbell lane I like the logic about waiting for the baby to be born but it doesn't quite fit the verse. All of the "you's" in that verse refer to, what seems to be, a fully grown adult who goes back and forth from city to country life: "Come back to the stars...We'll lend you the car...we wait for you..." To me, the waiting has always implied a family member waiting for one of their own to return to Sisotowbell Lane, having gone to the city - that fits with her concept of Part 1 and Part 2. Perhaps the "trouble" in Sisotowbell refers to the distance between two lovers. Also, the rocking chair reference doesn't quite fit the pregnancy theme either, only because it seems to be used in rotation: "Each of us rocks his share." Somehow the idea of a fictional world of pregnant mothers waiting in rocking chairs for their kids to be born doesn't seem like the crux of this song to me. If that were the case, wouldn't it be "rocks HER share?" I think it's just a vision of idealism. Joni, a born and bred country girl, going back to the peacefulness of country life after her romps in the city where she obviously perceived a healthy dose of cynicism, personified by Nathan La Franeer, who took her to the airport to leave the city. This is the song just before Sisotowbell, heightening the contrast between city/country life. Things move at a slower pace in the country, the pace of a rocking chair. Noah, to me, has always represented someone who would, by city standards, be seen as shameful. Perhaps he is mentally slow or just a very simple, honest man with simple values. In this ideal world he brings the families of Sisotowbell Lane no shame. He always knew he was welcome there and that that is where he belongs. So, that's my take on it: just a song about an ideal landscape and an ideal lifestyle. I like the idea of Mia's pregnancy themes, though. I had never thought of that before. Joni's songs are always so full of possibilities! - -Andrew Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:35:38 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: Joni, then and now > It would seem that she's saying one thing & doing > another, although I'm sure she would rationalize her > way around the question. Yes and no - I see what you're saying about her re-visiting her old songs on Travelogue but I think the styles are different enough to warrant some element of change. Some of the reviews of the Both Sides Now concerts on JM.com still had people complaining that she didn't play her guitar or sing Big Yellow Taxi; they criticized her for not being that willowy, wispy Joni of days gone by. I think that's what Joni resents. - -Andrew Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:43:18 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: Joni, then and now Kind of like when Public Image Limited toured and all they did was dance in front of their video. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Little Bird Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 11:36 AM To: SCJoniGuy@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Joni, then and now > It would seem that she's saying one thing & doing > another, although I'm sure she would rationalize her > way around the question. Yes and no - I see what you're saying about her re-visiting her old songs on Travelogue but I think the styles are different enough to warrant some element of change. Some of the reviews of the Both Sides Now concerts on JM.com still had people complaining that she didn't play her guitar or sing Big Yellow Taxi; they criticized her for not being that willowy, wispy Joni of days gone by. I think that's what Joni resents. - -Andrew Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:53:56 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni, then and now Andrew writes: << they criticized her for not being that willowy, wispy Joni of days gone by. I think that's what Joni resents. >> And well she should! The complaints I heard from people leaving the Boston BSN performance in 2000 would have made her hair stand on end. Many of these people didn't come to see an artist perform, the were looking for an oldies show! Joni even had the audacity to smoke a gig on stage during her encore, which prompted one jerk to proclaim, "Now we know what happened to her voice!" Yeah, butts can do things to someone's voice, but so can 35 years! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:59:55 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni, then and now I wrote: << Joni even had the audacity to smoke a gig on stage >> Smoke a gig! Now that really sounds like a 60s/70s performance! Of course I meant "cig." --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:22:20 -0800 (PST) From: magsnbrei Subject: Re: Joni, then and now / cbc woman of heart and mind Andrew wrote: <<>> and now me: Especially after seeing part one of the CBC Life and Times of Joni Mitchell, Woman of Heart and Mind, I cannot help but feel frustrated when some people want Joni to be anything other than who and what and where she is 'now'. Over the course of the first hour, I gained a whole new appreciation for her. I felt as though I was discovering her all over again. Amazing considering Ive been a constant, life long fan of hers since Court and Spark and Blue were in the limelight. Joni has given us an incredible body of work, and has touched the lives, hearts and souls of countless people around the world. All of her contemporaries adore her, especially Graham ; there's no mistaking that twinkle in his eye ;-). Joni is unique, one of a kind. There is no one like her on the face of the earth. Notice how many musicians relay how difficult it is to sing and play 'Joni' tunes. She makes it all look so easy. I love her stories and feel that she is a true story teller. She offers us her precious jewels, a story within a story, within. I love it when she feels the need to explain the origin of a song for I want to know who and where and the why. And why not. If Joni is finished writing 'new' songs, I can accept that. I respect her decision if that's where she is, now. She's a fluid, free spirit so who knows where she will go next. I appreciate Both Sides Now as well as Travelogue for the same reasons that I appreciate every single album she has recorded. She takes a chance and flies with it. I love that Joni chose to record her own songs in new ways. She pushes the envelope as Joni often does; sometimes catches us off guard and makes us think and ask ourselves what it is about a particular line, song, tone or entire album that affects us in the way that it does. Joni is an artist and with each new project, she smooths out a fresh canvas with her hands. She combines different colours, lines, brush strokes for effect. Her masterpieces are built layer upon layer, as the past collides with the present and moves us into the future. Joni paints in a wide spectrum of colour, whether she's choosing paint or words, she lays down her soul onto paper in search of release for her feelings and thoughts and ideas. At the time that VanGogh was alive, he only sold one painting (so I understand). At the time he was painting, many people thought he was a mad man. Completely insane. (And what is sanity anyway?) alas, I digress. Imho, VanGogh .. and Joni are geniuses in their own right, in their own time, in their own way. Perhaps she wont be truly recognized or appreciated as such until long after the dust has taken flight upon prairie winds. Don't it always seem to go. Take a deep breath and inhale her for who she is, here and now. Watching the Joni special the other night made my heart ache. No musician has ever affected me in the ways she has, ever. I watched the images and walked with her life through her life experience...her marriage, the hope and the tragic loss of a baby, a hope that walked beside her like a ghost for many years. Not an easy decision whatsoever. She makes that very clear. I love that the folks on the jmdl share so many thoughts and interpretations of her work, because that is what Joni asks of us. When we come to her in search of meaning to a phrase, a word, a notion, she turns that around and asks what it means to us. I want her to know that I hear her right inside my heart. Mags. np: Cactus Tree, from Song to A Seagull...my lullabye album from days gone by. You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:43:17 -0800 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Re: "Wall to Wall Joni Mitchell" in New York I know this is old news.... and I probably missed it...but wondered if anyone went to, or listened to the The Symphony Space presentation of "Wall to Wall Joni Mitchell" in New York And could provide a setlist of artists/songs they covered? perhaps/please? ~Richard >11:00 AM - 2:00 PM: >Sylvia McNair >Introduction and Welcome >Clips from the Dick Cavett Show (8/16/69) >Laurie Anderson >Lauren Flanigan >Jason Moran >Lorinda Lisitza >Stretto >Lucy Kaplansky >Garland Jeffreys >Jane Ira Bloom >Morley >Helga Davis >Gail Ann Dorsey > >2:00 PM - 5:00 PM >Ivy Austin >Christine Lavin >Suzzy and Maggie Roche >Bob Holman >Sally Fingerett >Luciana Souza >David Krakauer >Theo Bleckmann >Dana Hanchard >Greg Tate > >5:00 PM - 8:00 PM >Edie Carey >Anne Heaton >Elliott Sharp's Terraplane >Nora York >Melba Joyce >Carole Pope >Four Bags >Fred Hersch >Greg Osby >Tamar-kali >Julian Fleisher >Sussan Deyhim >Brandon Ross > >8:00 PM - 11:00 PM >The Mingus Big Band >Jenifer Jackson >Don Byron & Music for Six Musicians +1 >Martha Wainwright >Marc Anthony Thompson >Ute Lemper ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 18:25:36 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: "Wall to Wall Joni Mitchell" in New York In a message dated 3/31/2003 5:45:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, richard2sf@earthlink.net writes: > but wondered > if anyone went to, or listened to the The Symphony Space presentation > of "Wall to Wall Joni Mitchell" in New York > And could provide a setlist of artists/songs they covered? perhaps/please? > Richard, I'm so pleased that you've awakened from the coma you've obviously been in to have missed all the W2W posts, including my review & listing of all the performers/songs. ;o) I originally posted the performers & songs on March 24. I then went back and posted a 7-part review of each. You can go diggin' in the archives...or wait and Les should soon have the review as a complete article in the JMDL database. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 15:31:26 -0800 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Re: "Wall to Wall Joni Mitchell" in New York WHAT?!?!?!?! you want me to go digging in the archives??? when you could just go into your "SENT" Box and "FORWARD" it to me? Coma? what Coma? I just spaced out for awhile, is all..... At 6:25 PM -0500 3/31/03, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 3/31/2003 5:45:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, >richard2sf@earthlink.net writes: > >>but wondered >>if anyone went to, or listened to the The Symphony Space presentation >>of "Wall to Wall Joni Mitchell" in New York >>And could provide a setlist of artists/songs they covered? perhaps/please? >> > > >Richard, > >I'm so pleased that you've awakened from the coma you've obviously >been in to have missed all the W2W posts, including my review & >listing of all the performers/songs. ;o) > >I originally posted the performers & songs on March 24. I then went >back and posted a 7-part review of each. > >You can go diggin' in the archives...or wait and Les should soon >have the review as a complete article in the JMDL database. > >Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 15:50:35 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni and the war emil thompson wrote: > Does anyone know where Joni stands on this whole war issue thing, has > she said anything about it ? How about Neil Young, I don't know if Joni has made any statements directly about this war. Neil did, however, launch an antiwar scree during the recent Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ceremony. (He was there to honor record mogul Mo Ostin). He said "Tonight we're having a good time,but we're going to kill a lot of people next week. Let's not forget about that ... We're making a huge mistake." MTV did not air his comments during their taped broadcast of the event, except a brief one about Ostin. RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:06:11 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Now that we have all done our one hand clapping routines Joni has not, to my knowledge, announced any plans to perform anywhere. She did a one-off performance for the Walden Woods benefit last November. She has also announced that she's quitting the music biz altogether, which reminds me of the tee shirt worn by one of the Firesign Theatre that said "Rolling Stones 3rd Farewell Tour" Now what's all this about one hand clapping? RR Suzanne MarcAurele wrote: > (Which may account for Mitchell appearing in public as little as possible!!) > Does anyone have any information on where, when or why she may or may not be > giving a live performance somewhere this year? Hows about something related > to her paintings? Please do not respond if it is a one hand clapping > revisited! Thanks > S. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 20:18:18 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: re: sisotowbell lane --- mia ortlieb wrote: > Bob wrote: "Sisotowbell Lane is an interesting > song...I wonder if it's about > a place that Joni actually experienced, or a place > she imagined. I mean, I > know the NAME is fictitious, just wondering what > she's referencing." > > I alway thought that Joni was referencing a time or > a place for pregnant > unwed mothers -- imagined or real, I do not know. > The biggest clue that I > see is the repeated reference to "rocking chairs"... > and the line that "Noah > is fixing a pump in the rain, he brings us no shame, > we always knew that he > always knew" indicates that this man, Noah, is not > judgemental of the > character's out-of-wedlock pregnancy. > > Also, the last line "we wait for you" indicates to > me that the character is > just waiting out the time until the baby is born. > That's an interesting take. I never woulda thunk it but it does make sense. To me Sisowtobell Lane sounds like a place remembered from childhood, out in the country. (Joni and her acronyms - I thought of a sisowtobell (Sp?) as a kind of flower like a larkspur or bluebells maybe.) I figured the pump Noah was fixing was the pump for the well. I think Joni is a kid when she's singing this song. The kids are sitting on the front porch eating muffin buns and berries by the steamy kitchen window, out of the rain, watching Noah do his work, taking turns on the porch rocking chair. The people are friendly - they'll always be there when you come back, even years later. When you come back as a grownup, they'll even lend you their car. If I were a teacher and I taught young kids, I'd teach them this song. And Morning Morgantown would be the other side of it - the fun part of being a kid in town. These songs seem very nostalgic to me - you may have a point about the pregnancy. Depending on when Joni wrote SL (I don't feel like trying to spell it again), maybe she was pining for simpler times, or wishing the simple joys of that kind of life for her own child. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 20:24:27 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Fwd: RE: Joni Mitchell: Both Sides Now and Then Don't get too excited. I contacted Eaglevision about the fact that they had Joni Mitchell: Both Sides Now & Then advert'ed on their website. The answer I got back is below. I turns out this is simply "JM- A woman of heart and mind" after all, and that even those in the "biz" don't bother to update their websites (doncha frickin' hate THAT?) And here some of us were hoping this was going to be the *other* one, the one Joni didnt' want people to see. And it also seems the people who are supposedly promoting this stuff don't know much about it either. >>sigh<< 'twas ever thus. You want information? Ask a jmdler; they're the only ones that seem to know anything. --- Robert Ross wrote: > Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell: Both Sides Now and Then > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:53:42 -0500 > From: "Robert Ross" > To: "Catherine McKay" > > Hello: > > All I can tell you about this upcoming release > (proper title: Joni Mitchell - Woman of Heart & > Mind): It is not out yet; the date of release is > June 3. The art is still being prepared. That is > all the information I am at liberty to distribute on > this project. We want the best quality on it and > cannot give any unapproved info or art to anyone. > > Keep checking back with Amazon or CD Now as the art > is close to readiness; it will be posted (we > believe) by month's end. > > Best regards, > Rob Ross > Production Manager > Eagle Rock Entertainment > > -----Original Message----- > From: Catherine McKay [mailto:anima_rising@yahoo.ca] > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 8:48 AM > To: Robert Ross > Subject: Joni Mitchell: Both Sides Now and Then > > > On your website you have info on a DVD/video called > "Joni Mitchell: Both Sides now and then." If you > click > on "buy it", it transports you to CDNow/Amazon, > where > doing a research reveals... nothing. > > A number of people on the Joni Mitchell discussion > list (www.jmdl.com) are wondering about this. We > understood such a film had been made but that Joni > nixed it and that subsequently, a > new/revised/whatever > film came from it - Joni Mitchell: a woman of Heart > and Mind (as aired on CBC earlier this month; and a > slightly longer version of this to air on PBS April > 2.) > > Can you please let me know whether or not the "Both > sides now and then" film will be available - and if > so, when and how and all that? (There are people on > the jmdl who would kill for this. I wouldn't go that > far, but I'd love to have a copy, especially having > so > much enjoyed "Woman of heart & mind" and anxiously > awaiting its release on DVD in early May (and hoping > that isn't fiction either.) > > Thanks. > > > ===== > Catherine > Toronto > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 20:29:26 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: sisotowbell lane In a message dated 3/31/2003 8:25:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, anima_rising@yahoo.ca writes: > maybe she was > pining for simpler times, or wishing the simple joys > of that kind of life for her own child. > I still think Mia nailed it, and I think your take on it is an extension of the "child with a child pretending" mindset. Of course she's longing for a simpler more uncomplicated time, given her situation. And the rocking chair, as in rocking a baby to sleep...crystal clear to me. Bob NP: Badly Drawn Boy, "Born Again" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:52:20 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: re: sisotowbell lane Catherine wrote: "The people are friendly - they'll always be there when you come back, even years later. When you come back as a grownup, they'll even lend you their car. If I were a teacher and I taught young kids, I'd teach them this song." Very nice idea! I do remember learning "The Circle Game" as a child. Our music teacher, Mrs. Featherstone, in grade 2, taught us Circle Game and we sang it for our parents during a "class assembly" where the parents sit at the desks (tight fit for some) and the kids stand at the front of the classroom and sing their hearts out. S. Lane does have a very childlike quality to it; it's very nostalgic and ideal. It's always reminded me of the Canadian prairies with reference to the badlands and the woodlands and the grasslands. I don't know if anyone can nail a Joni Mitchell song with a single definition, only offer personal insight. I'd like to hear some other thoughts on this song. It's definitely my favourite from the album. Hopefulness and optimism were staples of Joni's early work. Some might call it naivity but I think it's just the product of a good heart. - -Andrew Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 21:51:20 EST From: BRIANASYMES@aol.com Subject: STAS memories My Aunt presented this Album to me in 68 to me when she learned from my mom I had Clouds on my shelf and listened to it daily after School. I knew right off IHAK was about Chuck "of an Actor who fears the laughter's sting." He was a player on Willie's stage in Branford, Ontario. And Detroit's many citizen's all drove around in rusty Fairlane's. NITH is a Mama's&Papa's influenced wanna be a popfolk B side song Marcie is a vocal master piece, I think Chuck taught Joni how to add transfixing emotion's in Nathan La Franeer. The songs "down to the Seaside" are truly joni's adventure as an opening blood red Tulip. Many have our own Sisotowbell Lane life. I had a summerbarefootkissmyfirstgirl place skin white by skin golden seen skinny dipping in the full moon blonde hair falling across Irish lassies freckles salty lemon tequila kisses lapping with the rhythm of the waves. oops sorry its so easy to fall back to poetry as I listen to Pirates of Penance especially when there is two Joni's singing this song. I think the nimble fingers on Song to the Seagull could be turned into a concerto by say Christopher Parkening. When I was a teen I spent so many hours tacking across the waves contained in the Holy Grail Bay. The low notes of her guitar in Cactus Tree were the loose lines on the masts of my boat. I was that man who was out sailing in the decade of young dreams. Brian Symes ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 22:52:16 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Joni, then and now "An actress is not expected to continue to play her ingenue roles. I've written roles for myself to grow into gracefully, but there is no 'growing into gracefully' in the pop world." - Joni You all know I love Norma and all, but, this is gibberish. The pop world hasn't shut her out any more than the jazz world hated Mingus. People haven't stopped buying her titles. That's why she has a budget. If the pop world rejected her she COULDN'T hire Wayne and Herbie! How does she figure she's been shut out of the game when she a.) hires most of the London Symphony Orchestra to play in b.) Sir George Martin's room to perform c.) newly scored arrangements fleshed out by world-class cats including d.) Billy Preston, which is e.) presented so opulently that it is obvious that she *GOT* everything she asked for. No, her audience has emphatically not abandoned her. Even the business hasn't abandoned her. She hints at knowing that she's talking smack when she says "I've written roles for myself". That's exactly it. She's re-defining what she wants to give the world. Exactly as she always has. She's making her own rules even now. Let's dial back to the moment after "Ladies Of the Canyon". The world wanted only one thing from her: "Helium Girl, part IV: The Waif Fades Out". She reared back and gave the world, "Blue". Hello? Don't you think that was a departure? Holy cow! I don't know where the self-pity comes from but it certainly does not come from an external reality. What I see is that Joni is semi-retired. That's fine. That's her choice. Wouldn't it be neat to hear her say this? "I'm living proof that sticking to your craft pays off in a long career, ya dig? Keep at it Jewel, Dave Matthews, Tori. You rock. Be your own best critic and for heaven's sake don't pan yourself." For additional clarity, downbeat magazine's Leonard Feather rated "MINGUS" 5 stars out of a possible 5 stars. Read his words: http://www.jonimitchell.com/downbeat79.html Lama, setting the record straight 'cause I'm just the cowboy to do it, that's all. Shucks. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 20:15:07 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: Joni, then and now Jim the cowboy wrote: "You all know I love Norma and all, but, this is gibberish. The pop world hasn't shut her out any more than the jazz world hated Mingus. People haven't stopped buying her titles." It depends on what you consider to be "the pop world." Joni made the comments in reference to radio play, of which she gets none. In that sense, the pop world has indeed shunned her. Where is she on the dial? Nowhere. If you're a current radio junkie Joni Mitchell may as well be dead and burried. She certainly doesn't pander to the radio formula and never has. She is rich because she's earned her stripes simply by being true to her muse for decades and because, after years of being ignored (80s) it suddenly became cool to like Joni Mitchell again. "Why are Jewel and Alanis so popular?" the little ones asked and some bright individuals told them about Joni, heaping awards on her in the process. "Oh yeah, Joni Mitchell. She still around? Give her an award." Joni is now an industry and she can do whatever the hell she wants regardless of record sales, which I would argue are not really that strong compared to the megastars of our time who are far less talented. I think I read somewhere that she averages about 500,000 copies per album. Not a grand slam by today's pop standards. She can pay for Herbie and Wayne and the London Symphony Orchestra because some of the biggest names in music adore her work and are vocal about it. If the record company didn't give her the money today they'd look like total idiots: squanderlust fools! Celine Dion, on the other hand, can pay for her $95 million stage at Caesar's Palace and her 60 dancers because she has an ad for Dodge/Chrysler in her new CD along with a sampler of her self-titled upcoming perfume. Frankly I like it when Joni whines. I know she knows herself well enough to know that her instincts are probably accurate - so I trust her laments. She's the one collecting the pay stubs, so ultimately only she knows whether there is room for complaint or not. Of late it seems there has been. I trust her. - -Andrew Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #109 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)