From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #67 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, February 25 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 067 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- the state of this list ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #65 [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: State of the list [colin ] us and more [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: us and more ["Jim Leonard" ] Joni highs and lows [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] a strange boy [anne@sandstrom.com] set a spell [twoshoes@sasktel.net] Re-Woodstock [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #144 ["Tamsin Lucas" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #144 [colin ] Re: Today's Library Links: February 25 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] State of the List [MGVal@aol.com] RE: The State of the List [ReckersL@ebrd.com] CBC show on Joni and Norah Jones [Aerchak@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #65 [Catherine McKay ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #144 ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] whatcha reading? SJC [Emily Gray Tedrowe ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #144 ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] Re: The State of the List ["Lori Fye" ] State of the List ["Mark Tatum" ] RE: The State of the List ["Lori Fye" ] RE: The State of the List [ReckersL@ebrd.com] Joni Highs and Lows [KJHSF@aol.com] I'll tape the CBC show for y'all [Little Bird ] Re: Re-Woodstock ["gene mock" ] Re: I'll tape the CBC show for y'all [David Sadowski ] Re: CBC show on Joni [sl.m@shaw.ca] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:59:49 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: the state of this list stephen wrote >>And during his stay, Steve and Michelle Dulson, and Kate Bennett were in town for the Folk Alliance. We all met for the first time and it was like visiting with cousins you havent seen for a year and a half!<< funny remembering this...steve & michele & i had met before & were standing in the lobby where we had planned to meet stephen & wally for the first time ...hundreds of others were there milling about & it was then that steve & i realized that neither of us knew what stephen & wally looked like & vice versa! but somehow we all found each other... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 04:23:51 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #65 I gotta agree with you about Norah Jones, who is, I believe, the estranged daughter of Ravi Shankar! It's nice, but doesn't blow me away to the degree it has impressed the Grammy voters. I don't think Rickie Lee was a contender with no new output last year, if I'm not mistaken. But Patty Griffin's 1,000 Kisses was totally overlooked. She is a rarity, these days-incredible tunesmith and gorgeous voice! Was Beck's Sea Changes ineligible? Aimee Mann's Lost In Space? Seems the Grammys are on another downward spiral. They got good around the time of Turbulent Indigo--seems they were in the mood to honor some real talented and unrecognized folks around that time. Avril Lavine? No comment. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:43:39 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: State of the list Les Irvin wrote: > > > Les... a humorless, cliquish, total wackjob. don't be so hard on yourself......we all have faults..... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 05:43:17 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: us and more Ron wrote: yeah - sometimes it did seem a bit strange. a bit touchy feely. a bit too taking ourselves seriously. Well, Ron, we sound like someone. Oh let me see. Her initials are JM... Lama, thanks for the clear explanation of compression. For someone who's been in a recording studio, you'd think I'd understand it better than I do. This has led me to ponder the following. What song is Joni's best vocal? I may have to consider that I bit more. Probably something in the C&S through Hejira timeframe. I think her voice was at its peak about then. So, I'm not thinking best song. I'm thinking best "playing" of her instrument. And, conversely, worst sung song. Interested to know what others think. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:47:17 -0500 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: us and more From: > This has led me to ponder the following. What song is Joni's best vocal? > My vote would go to "Sweet Sucker Dance" from "Mingus." As a matter of fact, I need to argue for its inclusion in Walt's version of the boxed set. :-) As for "worst vocal" (not including BSN or T'log), I'd have to give it some more thought but "Roses Blue" is one vocal which gets on my nerves. Best, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:08:47 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Joni highs and lows In a message dated 2/25/2003 8:47:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, jll@tampabay.rr.com writes: > My vote would go to "Sweet Sucker Dance" from "Mingus." Dammit - you STOLE my pick! At least I can say that I have gone on record as saying this several times before, so I can't be accused of jumping on the "Boston Jim bandwagon"! ;~) If you haven't heard Joni's vocals on this track, your Joni-homework song of the day (I LOVE that idea Ron!) is "Sweet Sucker Dance". Not just the purity of her voice, but the way she effortlessly jumps from blue note to blue note, the emotion she conveys with every breath... Wow, it blows me away. > > As for "worst vocal" (not including BSN or T'log), Why not include those? It makes it easy. That shrieked "Head Of a Man" on the T'log version of "Slouching" makes me want to slash my wrists. Up until that, there were some crummy SONGS, but Joni's voice was unfailing. Maybe I don't care for the lofty soprano notes in some of the early stuff, but the vocal was still doing its job. Like Mark said (in his wonderful Woodstock post), Joni re-engineered her vocal on Woodstock and virtually reinvented the song. I guess she thought the strained notes in "Slouching" would create tension, but to my ears they're just unbearable. Bob NP: Lenny Kravitz, "Sister" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:16:50 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: a strange boy Bob M (SCJoniguy) wrote: Found out I wasn't as strange as I had previously suspected. ;~) Ah, Bob, we've been meaning to tell you... ;-) New topic: Has anyone else suggested this already - Norah Jones doing a Joni cover? What would be your pick? For now, I'd like to hear Norah doing Blue Motel Room or Two Grey Rooms. Hmm, and now that I think of it, these two songs feel related to me. The feel of both songs is similar, both thematically and musically. Oh, and forget I said anything about limiting the number or size of posts - I'm way over any limit at this point :-) lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:37:59 -0600 From: twoshoes@sasktel.net Subject: set a spell I'm on the Joni-only list, and get it in digest form, so this hello to Lindsay will probably be late posted and repetitive, but I'll say it anyway: howdy. Come in and set a spell. When people make a post to a list for the first time (not experienced on any list), it does make a huge difference when they are welcomed. It often gives them the courage to become active participants. I've been on this list a long time, but hardly know who's who, so all this talk about cliques goes right over my head. I read for content, not for community. I'd offer to tape the Joni bio on Life and Times, but CBC comes in unclear out here (rural Saskatchewan). I'll be able to watch it, but it will appear somewhat fuzzy and mostly black and white. Life and Times as a biography type of show is pretty bland -- it focuses on the more "acceptable" aspects of its subjects' lives. There will be no coverage of Joni's court case with her maid, for instance. Mostly these shows are prettified on the side of being glorifying, kindof the top-40 baby food of biographies. And way too many commercials. Not that I don't enjoy the show. Any info is better than no info. But I would be surprised if there's any great depth. The show tends to touch on the more commonly known things about people. That said, I'll be parked in front of the tv those nights, with bells on. The show will flatter our Joan to death, and that's okay by me. It will finally educate the Canadian public about her genius, I hope, and that's a good thing. Kate du Nord http://xoetc.antville.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:41:07 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Re-Woodstock When Joni sang the song at "A Day in the Garden" she introduced the song with a very moving speech " My generation was given a pocket of liberty like no other generation before", I think she pretty much felt it to be an anthem of the times, but if you listen to the CD she goes on to pretty much say it was short lived. But the song has a lasting value of explaining who we are, where we come from and where we should be heading! It certily has worked well with all my medications over the years, and to think a young unambitious girl wrote such an insightful song without even attending the main event. Being there and hearing her talk about the song is one historic event in my book. The live recording is one of the best live perfomances I've ever heard, hot stickey day, fingers sticking to the strings, and no mistakes. I love Joni and no other singer/songwriter will ever take me where she has everyday for 35 years, and I never tire of anything she does. Meeting her was a great honor, the biggest of my life, and she was so kind though-out the entire weekend at the Mendal opening. She was very engaging, always looked you straight in the eyes and was full of questions back at me. She grabbed me and gave me a kiss on the cheek, I didn't grab her. She will always be "Number One' for me. Peace to all! Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:15:48 +0000 From: "Tamsin Lucas" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #144 I'm quite a fan of The Rules of Attraction most of all. All that emptiness and angst and mindless dismissal of other people... - sometimes being at university did feel like that - as if everyone was competing to be the most "angsty" - I think that's what I particularly liked about TRoA. Also I love Donna Tartt's The Secret History and the same characters pop up in the background of both books which is cool. I believe Tartt and Eliis went to the same college. >Bret Easton Ellis = a very talented writer with characters I just can't >care >about, which makes for a strange reading experience. (And I'm not just >talking about "American Psycho" here.) > _________________________________________________________________ Chat online in real time with MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:17:52 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #144 robin mortlock wrote: >Hi > >I am new to all this and i have managed to delete the instructions about >contributing to the list. I hope this gets somewhere. > >"Dawntreader" and "Hejira" are the highlights of Travelogue for me - >"Dawntreader" being a new song entirely as i dont own the first album, so >what a treat. > >I'll keep this brief as i dont know where its going! > >Robin 0 Ireland > > > It got here safe Robin. welcome to our wonderful list. When you reply to digest, rememeber to delete the digest from your reply. I am sure you will ahev fun here. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:21:45 +0000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Today's Library Links: February 25 In a message dated 2/25/2003 2:05:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, ljirvin@jmdl.com writes: > 1972: "Concert Is Given By Joni Mitchell" - New York Times > (Review - Concert) > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=814 Les, belated congrats on passing the 1,000 mark with your article database! I don't always comment on them, but I DO check them out every day - I would hope everyone does. Anyway, I loved the prophetic comment this reviewer made about this GREAT Carnegie Hall show: "I suspect that in her own way Joni Mitchell may be one of the most genuinely gifted composers North America has yet developed. That she chooses to express her art in small forms and personal sentiments in no way reduces either its impact of its importance." Look! He didn't even specify a gender! :~) And keep in mind, this was 1972... Bob NP: Lenny Kravitz, "Empty Hands" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:22:50 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: State of the List Only a few thoughts here although I've been thinking about this a lot. Coming up with ideas on how to settle the list is turning out to be a lot like trying to figure out how to juggle the seating for my wedding: who can sit next to the other, which aunt tends to burp more than most and needs a seat by the window; there's just a lot to consider. A couple of issues stick out for me and they are: 1. Intimidation of potential posters/rudeness/abuse: I tend to be hard lined on this one in that I think that a lot of intimidation is self created and you need to feel confident in your post and let the chips fall where they may if you get strong and sharply worded rebuttals. I think that there are such a wide variety of communication styles. We are all a complex make up of passive/agressive personalities or straightforward ones or the types that get easily hurt by strong statements or the type that wouldn't be insulted if the words were in bold faced, super-sized font. I read one member say that they've spent a lot of energy NOT responding to posts. And maybe that's what we need to do. Write your post but hold onto it for a day. Does it graciously advance a view point or does it advance the wildfire? Of course, either of those two perspectives is in the eye of the beholder and therein lies another problem. 2. List Monitoring: I hate to use that old chestnut, "I've been on this list a long time," but here it goes: I've been on this list since just about the very beginning and this is a common cycle. Not just post 9/11, but there have been many threads that have often shut down the list for days. No one posted anything. Nothing at all. And then you would see a few tentative souls venture forth with a "JC" post and it would start up nicely all over again. And from that history, I will say that the list HAS improved. I can remember posts that were a much nastier than what I'm seeing now. Much nastier. Plus, it took people longer to say: "hey, this is not promoting harmony, knock it off." So while I'm loathe to agree with only xx number of posts a day and only xx number of words at that, I think that it might be better if Les chose a "hey youse guys, straighten up!" post when appropriate. As Bob M. said, when Les posts, people listen. 3. Misc. stuff: People ought not forget that this is the Internet. The JMDL is not a gated community although there are some components of that. You enter at your own risk and one of those risks is that you get stupid off list posts. Sometimes nasty off list posts. I think that's just par for the course when you deal with a bunch of strangers. The way the cookie crumbles and all that. Either delete it or find some common ground. (I think that that was a suggestion from Vince a few weeks ago). 4. Joni Content: She's a finite subject. T'log while a new album is old stuff. There's no upcoming tour. So things are going to turn "general" and to keep the Joni spirit alive, perhaps we should try to actively post a JC thread, not get discouraged when it dies quickly and then try again. Lori had the car thing and that was fun. We had parodies about 5 years ago and that was hilarious. Maybe it's time to try that again. 5. My laundry: It's tapping me on the shoulder and begging for attention. Thanks Les for a great list. (although I wouldn't want to have to say that 10 times fast). MG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:24:55 -0000 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: RE: The State of the List Bob (Murphy) dear, I also agree (in a non-icky, non-gushy way) sooo much with all you write - except for that same one point that you originally disagreed on, of course! :-) Really, your example about how the list could be taken over by radical animal rights activists, that is exactly what I felt too - but I seem to come to one slightly different conclusion, that is that recently I have begun to doubt whether self control alone will sort it all out. How can we trust "self control" so confidently, if in fact we have already lost so many people, including yourself, to "JC only"? Especially as they admit it is only the nature of certain political arguments that's making them do so? Is that the natural ebb and flow that we want to accept? And to take your example, how would you get PETA members to apply self control? I would be so happy if this JMDL spirit and self control sorted everything out again, and people now say "look, it's getting better already" - but how long before we have another crisis like this one? And what about the people we've lost already? The only way I could even begin to believe it, is if people like you and Bob Mueller and many many others (Mags, Mark, Ken, etc etc) came back to NJC! (What I mean is, it's fine for people to be on JC only if that's what they've always wanted: just Joni info. But I'm concerned about all the other people who wanted broader discussions and are now disappearing...) I think if we end up with a separate PC list, that would be a worse outcome. What will be considered Political? And I would not want to miss everything political, just the excesses. If this was just my feeling, I'd be happy if it were ignored, but from carefully reading all the replies (including yours), it is clear that that is not the case. One more thing, about that "we can just delete what we don't want to read" argument. I think it only works to a point. For some reason, it feels different, deleting (or in my case scrolling past) a cricket message from Azeem, which leaves me with a good feeling because I like to see him being enthousiastic about it, even if I don't know what a cricket ball looks like, and don't want to know! Same with details about guitars or tunings that I know nothing about - they're just great! But with politics, we cannot claim ignorance so it sucks us in, I don't feel so good having to delete those posts when there's too many of them, or when they turn unpleasant. And worst of the worst, to see people I like and respect attack other people I like and respect, is just the pits! And - OK, one MORE thing! - I agree that it just doesn't make sense for newcomers to resent the closeness that exists between "older" members. When I carefully joined (to use Sarah's image of this being a virtual pub) I just sat there quietly and observed for a while. I got a kick out of the friendship that I saw between others. I never resented not getting it all immediately myself, I felt I had to earn it - I still feel I have to earn it, and that feels just fine! In fact nobody owes me or any newcomer anything, it is a privilege to be taken into any group, and I am still amazed how generous and welcoming this group really is. I'll stop now. Les started this discussion without an NJC tag so I've kept it that way, but I do try to respect the JC onlies and apologise if they resent all these posts. Hopefully it won't be long! Lieve. -----Original Message----- From: Murphycopy@aol.com [SMTP:Murphycopy@aol.com] Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 9:51 PM To: ReckersL@ebrd.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: The State of the List (snip) POLITICS I prefer not to post political stuff here, but I don't mind that others do . . . up to a point. The political content has grown so much and has gotten so personal that, like Lieve, I agree that reading the list doesn't feel good anymore. (snip) One can argue that these are dire times, and that important issues such as Iraq need to be discussed here and now. But you know what? Any time is always "dire times" for somebody. There are people here who are, for example, vegetarians and post about that subject from time to time, which is fine, of course. But what would we do if radical PETA members joined the list and were relentlessly pushing their views here -- on the Joni Mitchell Discussion List! -- day in and day out? And what if they were constantly engaged in debate by the list's meat-eaters? Well, then we'd have the exact same situation we have now, but with a different topic. My suggestion? Self-control. Post political content moderately. If this doesn't work for a predetermined period of time -- say three months - -- then I'd hope that Les might think of adding the PC tag so that people who don't want to read political content can be spared having to wade though all the poop that gets posted. I would join that list today if it became available. Lieve also said: << I am thinking of a panel made up of, say, Les, Ashara and the 2 Bobs (M). >> Thanks, Lieve, for that vote of confidence in my policing abilities! I have often been told I look like a cop! ;-) I have to tell you though, I HATE THIS IDEA! And that's not just because Les (list owner), Ashara (JMDL/JoniMitchell.com fundraiser and NE Jonifest planner), Bob Muller (covers king) and I (Joni in Fiction) all have other duties here. I seriously doubt that anyone on the list wants to become Director of Joniland Security! So . . . INCLUDE ME OUT! CLIQUES/IN-HUMOR/ALLEGED INNER CIRCLE John S wrote: << I know that there are groups within the list who are close buddies - I love that, I don't feel left out because I'm not one of them. >> Amen. If I can't post about Jimmy's next water ballet or Ashara's tofu habit or Kakki's martinis or Bree's chocolate gifts, then I don't want to be here. I was once a newbie and I couldn't understand half of what I read here . . . what the hell Bob Muller's covers were all about, or when certain people were serious or joking . . . but I stayed around. That's part of the discovery and adventure of trying something new. If I moved to some small town in Finland tomorrow I wouldn't expect to be able to speak the language right away, or to know the local celebrities, politicians and other characters that make up my little village! But I would get myself a little phrase book, get the papers, listen to my new neighbors and then PARTICIPATE in my new life. (snip) As always, THANK YOU, LES, for putting up with us. Sometimes I really do feel bad for you because you generously let us all swim in your wonderful pool even though so many of us have been known to pee in it! ______________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:32:17 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: CBC show on Joni and Norah Jones My major concern regarding the JMDL at the present moment is finding a subscriber in Canada with a functioning VCR who can tape the program. I am wondering if there is a cultural difference among Canadians and Americans (that I was unaware of ) regarding electronic equipment. The people who have posted about taping the show all seem to have unreliable VCRs or confusion about tapes. I am a single woman and have two VCRs and a DVD. Surely, there is a subcriber in Canada who can tape the show. There are places that will make a copy for you or you could send it to one of us (me) and it could be duplicated. If not, someone in the states should be able to get this on satellite. You know who you are, whether you get CBC, so please step on up. About Norah Jones.....In the December article in W magazine, Joni stated that she liked Norah because she she didn't try too hard or something like that. She was the only new artist that Joni mentioned, other than Bjork, who she said she liked more as a performer. Also, Ravi Shankar is Norah's biological father, which I find extremely interesting. In spite of it all, I am oddly addicted to the JMDL. Please note that sometimes when I post, some of my directness is half truth - half tongue in cheek. Many people have been lovely to me on this list and I have engaged in many pleasant exchanges. The only person on the list I love is Bruce who I have been friends with for 33 years. I save my love for my friends and family. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:34:52 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #65 --- Lili Love wrote: > > I just don't see how the same kids who like Nelly, > Eminem, Pink, No Doubt, > Ludicris (sp?) can also listen to Norah Jones. I don't think it's the kids listening to her. I think it's the old farts (like me). I agree with you though - - she's pleasant, she's sweet, her singing is pretty, the music is nice, but there's no edge. She's safe. Maybe people needed safe. I just asked my daughter (today is her 16th birthday) if any of her friends liked Norah. She has a few friends that do, and Sarah sort of likes her, but most of them listen to hip-hop or John Mayer and people like that. I think Norah came along at a good time to catch the attention of the older listeners or some younger ones who might, as a result, check out jazz. I wish her well, but she's going to be her own toughest act to follow having won so many grammies her first time out. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:25:03 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #144 Rules of Attraction (ROA) really was a great read. Not as brilliant as I think American Psycho (AP) is, but I did read Rules very closely because I wanted to follow exacttly what was being said - and you are the first person that I know of who has commented on the "mindless dismissial of other people" and want to yell, "yes, yes" and wish I had put that into words - that is a great insight and key to the book. As for Bob's comments about characters that "I just don't care about" well that is one of the challenges huh? For me it has been not to like or dislike the characters (who is there to like?) but to see myself in those characters, to see the, shall we say, less flattering aspects of my own self being writ large like that, taken to the next level - As for ROA and AP - aren't our main chgaracters brothers? It is a Bateman in each book (think about that name, hmmmm) and I think in ROA we are briefly introduced to the Bateman in AP. For me AP is is in part a very chilling indictment on the materialism of the the 80s and the critique of our culture I so utterly agree with - and as Ellis counterposes the culture of acquistion against war, peace, and jjustice issues (especially in the restaurant scene but elsewhere) I think it is as applicable today, maybe much more so, than it was in the 80s. I say that wearing my American Trails shirt, lookiong at the time on my Timex single stemmed black and silver watch, making a subtle change of foot position in my AndOne shoes, my aerobiciced and yoga-pilated body flexing beneath the Levi 501 jeans and readjusting my Parveau reading glasses which are just large enough to help me read print and text and my Apple G4 monitor but not so large as to appear as if I actually needed glasses. When my dad was in the hospital in Decembner I had several Bret Easton Ellis books with me (the only one I haven't read is Glamorama) and it was quite the juxtaposition sometimes to look up from the book and deal with my father! Question: would you recommend a Bret Perry Ellis book - especially AP - to anyone else? Don't know that I would with AP - as brilliant a book as I think it is, the best fiction that I read in many,many years, I am afraid of what others would think of me if they read it and knew how much I liked it - would they catch the penetrating relentless reflectiuon of American life, or simply think I was a sicko with demented reading tastes? Vince Tamsin Lucas' post I'm quite a fan of The Rules of Attraction most of all. All that emptiness and angst and mindless dismissal of other people... - sometimes being at university did feel like that - as if everyone was competing to be the most "angsty" - - I think that's what I particularly liked about TRoA. Also I love Donna Tartt's The Secret History and the same characters pop up in the background of both books which is cool. I believe Tartt and Eliis went to the same college. Bob's post >Bret Easton Ellis = a very talented writer with characters I just can't care >about, which makes for a strange reading experience. (And I'm not just >talking about "American Psycho" here.) > http://messenger.msn.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:36:34 EST From: CDTraderJohn@aol.com Subject: Joni CD-R Trees When I joined this group a few months back, I had hoped to be able to participate in some upcoming CD-R Trees but have, as you are probably aware, noticed that none have been offered. This is supported by the fact that the JMDL web site shows that the "most recent" trees were run in 1999, and then, mostly only on tape. Of the one CD-R tree from that year, I have never come across either of the 1972 shows available on anyone's trade list. They may be out there, but apparently not in very wide circulation. While I have been able to locate some of Joni's earlier shows in my trading circles (and, then, sometimes with great difficulty), I have noted that many of the ones I have received have originated from tape sources that were obviously many generations removed from the originals. This has left we wondering if the time isn't ripe to pursue a "remastering" project, not unlike what is occurring at RUST (the Neil Young trade group) so that these shows can be preserved, shared and enjoyed in their "best available" versions. While my own particular interest is in Joni's earlier (pre '74) "folk" era, I would be willing to share in the duties of running (administering) some trees here if there is any interest. This would, of course, require one (or two or three) of the group's archivists to be willing to come forward with the "best available" source tapes in order for this to make any sense. I, myself, am not very adept at the technical aspect of "remastering", but can provide some basic skills if no one else volunteers. We would also benefit from someone's artistic talent at creating jewel case artwork to house and protect these shows/compilations. Now that CD-R's have really taken the place of cassettes for traders, isn't it about time that these shows were preserved and shared in this format? If anyone is in support of this idea, please let others know. If any of the archivists are reading this and would be willing to participate (it can't happen without you) please get in touch and let me know your thoughts. If anyone else is willing to volunteer their time and/or skills to see this happen, please get in touch with whoever you know to be influential in this group. I hope I haven't crossed any lines with this post. My intent (besides wanting to obtain some of these shows for myself) is to see that the best available versions of these wonderful performances survive into the future for as many as possible to be able to enjoy. Thanks for reading. Please share your thoughts. Regards, John Epstein ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:34:02 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #65 --- Lili Love wrote: > > I just don't see how the same kids who like Nelly, > Eminem, Pink, No Doubt, > Ludicris (sp?) can also listen to Norah Jones. Ludicris spelled right, by the way! Catherine replies: I don't think it's the kids listening to her. I think it's the old farts (like me). I agree with you though - - she's pleasant, she's sweet, her singing is pretty, the music is nice, but there's no edge. She's safe. Not all of the people who listen to No Doubt, etc., would not play Norah Jones - I know kids who have very broad tastes - like a lot of us - when I was a kid back in the day, I could go from Joni to Steppenwolf to Quicksilver Messengre Service not in the same minute maybe but in the same hour :-) But I think Catherine is exactly right on in her assessment of Norah Jones. She's safe. That says it all. She has talent too in singing her safe songs. But what does she have to say? Give me a Tracy Chapman 1,000,000 times over a Norah Jones who writes her own songs and has something she wants to communicate. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:09:37 -0500 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: Joni highs and lows From: > In a message dated 2/25/2003 8:47:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, jll@tampabay.rr.com writes: > > > My vote would go to "Sweet Sucker Dance" from "Mingus." > > Dammit - you STOLE my pick! At least I can say that I have gone on record as saying this several times before, so I can't be accused of jumping on the "Boston Jim bandwagon"! ;~) > As a matter of fact, SCJoniGuy, I do recall those earlier mentions and all I could say was "right on!" > If you haven't heard Joni's vocals on this track, your Joni-homework song of the day (I LOVE that idea Ron!) is "Sweet Sucker Dance". Not just the purity of her voice, but the way she effortlessly jumps from blue note to blue note, the emotion she conveys with every breath... Wow, it blows me away. > As is so often the case, you communicate our position on this performance with tremendous eloquence, sir. Joni never was more of a bona fide "jazz singer" than on this track, and she just absolutely nailed it. She wrote great lyrics for this Mingus tune, too. Jim NP: Wynton Marsalis and the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra with special guest vocalists, including Cassandra Wilson (sigh), the Pulitzer Prize-winning "Blood On The Fields" (Gotta love these days off!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:17:59 -0500 From: Emily Gray Tedrowe Subject: whatcha reading? SJC hi folks. after lots of time spent thinking about what i like, and do not like, about the JMDL, i figured out that my favorite non-joni threads tend to be the same kind of conversations i gravitate to at parties, dinners, bars, the bus stop...that is, music (especially but not exclusively aimee mann, bjork, wilco, phish...), art (like the new hiroshi sugimoto exhibit at the MCA in chicago), and primarily--BOOKS. since i'm a writer, i tend to hang out with various artsy, head-in-the-clouds types who usually seem less passionate about the political state of the day than about the topics i mentioned above. or about finding the cheapest burrito place around. (although that's not always true--maybe i'm underplaying how much my friends and social acquaintances care about the various day to day sadness in the news or whether we just usually reserve that kind of talk for another time and place.) in any case, i was thinking that what i might do at a big long dinner party if the tide turned too long to talk of war that saddened and scared me--and what i might do is quietly turn to my neighbor and ask what he or she was reading. see if that person wanted to sideline a small conversation. i'm always interested. i've loved our talk of books here on the list...i'm enjoying the current bret easton ellis thread, for example. so, whatcha reading? personally, i just finished john updike's newest novel "seek my face" (my husband has a dirty but funny way of misstating that title). it's a fictionalized portrait of jackson pollock's wife--and for the life of me i can't recall her actual name! how embarrassing...anyone? i just adore john updike's writing--there were sentences in this book that made me stop and re read them again, in an agony of pleasure over what some people can do with language. the novel covers this woman's life in art, her own painting--and her struggle to work with her own vision and goals even as she is surrounded by (and marries a number of) men who seem to grab the spotlight so much more intensely. kinda reminds me of JM, now that i think about it! (especially the themes on "for the roses" or "hejira") anyway, now i'm on to richard ford's collection of short stories-- can't remember the title but there is a gorgeous photo of grand central station of the cover, i believe. enjoying it. well, that's my offering! i also want to thank les for the opportunity to read and contribute to this list...of my various email tasks and correspondence, it's (usually) a nice break in the day! - -- emily, in cold chicago ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:26:57 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #144 My southern brother wrote of the Bret easte[on Ellis stuff: "C'mon Vince - NJC this stuff!" and as always Bob is right - twice in 24 hours I have forgotten the NJC tag and damn it I am sorry. I am about to go beat myself up for that because a second apology will sound weak - but I blew it pure and simple, twice now in a few hours, and it is inexcusable. Not much else to say but I feel worse about it than the JoniOnlys. I am going on hiatus for a while in penance. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:40:09 -0500 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: Joni highs and lows Re "Sweet Sucker Dance": One last thing, and then I'm going to HAVE to say I've reached my quota of posts for the day (week?) ... The "degree of difficulty" in singing this Mingus melody has got to be at least an 8 on a scale of 10. I think that's part of what Bob was referring to when he wrote "the way she effortlessly jumps from blue note to blue note." Damn difficult jumps they were! She was no slouch on "Dry Cleaner" and "Pork Pie Hat," either. A good portion of "Mingus" represented a home run for Joni, and it's too bad more of her audience at the time didn't cheer her for hitting it. It seemed to me to be a logical progression from the THOSL, "Hejira" and DJRD albums then, and I felt my opinion was perfectly legitimized by the integration of the Mingus material on "Shadows And Light" (my all-time favorite Joni album - on which her singing, overall, was ther best it's ever been, I think). Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:24:44 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: The State of the List Rose wrote: > I suggested it before........ a forum board (instead of live email > via smoe) accessed only on the JMDL. I think this would detract from the spontaneity of the list, at least as concerns those who've chosen to receive individual posts. However, this: > We can have one discussion forum for political discussions (which is > where you must post them) at least for political posts, is a good idea and might be the way to go. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:25:11 -0600 From: "Mark Tatum" Subject: State of the List I am optimistic about the state of the list. While I agree that we are in a trough of sorts right now, I think it's due in part to the present state of the world, and in part to TLOG, like BSN, not having "new" original Joni material. This list is a definite community,and like all communities it occasionally manifests some discord, sometimes seeks to establish a "government", etc.; but if it were a real town, it would be a great place to live because of the people. There are a lot of very generous and thoughtful people on this list, and I think they are the ones who will turn out to be the permanent residents here. Instead of working on a "zoning" ordinance, why don't we take on a "public service" project? I'll throw out a couple of ideas. Jim recently suggested we consider what should go in a Joni 4cd box set. What if we instead consider what should go in an actual set (number of cds to be discussed) of live, noncommercial Joni performances that chronicle the "best of the best" in terms of her songs and best available versions? I know the list has some made some trees in the past, but this would be quite different, and Bob Muller not only is our "resident" expert on Joni recordings, but also has an incredible collection of her live performances. Maybe we could start a new cd tree (and definitely not burden Bob); maybe we might even be able to offer visitors to the JMDL homepage a way to download two or three such songs as a way of getting them interested buying Joni's albums. Another idea is an actual gift to Joni from the list that would allow each member to include something or to contribute in some way. The cookbook was before my time here, but is a good example. How about some cds from us (Jonifest-type performances?) in one of these boxes: www.cleverwood.com/about1.htm www.cleverwood.com/japanese_artists_price_list.htm ? Who knows what that might lead to? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:06:44 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: RE: The State of the List Lieve wonders: > What will be considered Political? "The personal is the political." Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:14:13 -0000 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: RE: The State of the List Sounds good and I know exactly what it means and why - but it does not really help this discussion. Sometimes we have to read between the lines and understand what people mean, not how their words can be twisted. -----Original Message----- From: Lori Fye [SMTP:lrfye@lrfye.lunarpages.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 6:07 PM To: ReckersL@ebrd.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: The State of the List Lieve wonders: > What will be considered Political? "The personal is the political." Lori EBRD SECURITY NOTICE This email has been virus scanned ______________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:34:42 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Joni Highs and Lows There is a sweetness and ease in Help Me that Joni has on no other song. The thing about Joni's singing, is that, even if you don't care for the song, she nails it. So for me there are many highs; a seemingly effortless ability to glide through a melody, no matter how difficult. I love NRH almost from start to finish, but noticed that Joni's voice seems kind of frail and quiet, coming through as breath without sound at points. When she returned with TI, the raspy quality remained, but somehow, she sounds stronger to me. Anyone else notice this? But I would still not call this a "low". Ken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:39:58 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: I'll tape the CBC show for y'all To Andrea and her fellow yankee friends, I will volunteer to tape the CBC program on Joni next week so that all my comrades down south can view it. My VCR is fully functional and I am also a Canadian, which is the biggest irony of all. (Not really, but I like the word "irony.") So, I'll tape it, send it to Andrea, who has volunteered to be the nascent queen bee and breeder of these tapes. I suppose it will then be up to her to distribute the tapes, based on demand. I'll tape it. That's final. - -Andrew (Andrea, contact me with address info. and any additional comments) Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:45:39 -0800 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: Re-Woodstock thanks, great post. later gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 5:41 AM Subject: Re-Woodstock > When Joni sang the song at "A Day in the Garden" she introduced the song > with a very moving speech " My generation was given a pocket of liberty > like no other generation before", I think she pretty much felt it to be an > anthem of the times, but if you listen to the CD she goes on to pretty much > say it was short lived. But the song has a lasting value of explaining who we > are, where we come from and where we should be heading! It certily has > worked well with all my medications over the years, and to think a young > unambitious girl wrote such an insightful song without even attending the > main event. Being there and hearing her talk about the song is one historic > event in my book. The live recording is one of the best live perfomances I've > ever heard, hot stickey day, fingers sticking to the strings, and no mistakes. > I love Joni and no other singer/songwriter will ever take me where she has > everyday for 35 years, and I never tire of anything she does. > Meeting her was a great honor, the biggest of my life, and she was so kind > though-out the entire weekend at the Mendal opening. She was very engaging, > always looked you straight in the eyes and was full of questions back at me. > She grabbed me and gave me a kiss on the cheek, I didn't grab her. She will > always be "Number One' for me. > > Peace to all! > Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:51:37 -0600 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: I'll tape the CBC show for y'all It would be great if one of our tech savvy members could transfer this to a VCD. Little Bird wrote: >To Andrea and her fellow yankee friends, > >I will volunteer to tape the CBC program on Joni next week so that all my comrades down south can view it. My VCR is fully functional and I am also a Canadian, which is the biggest irony of all. (Not really, but I like the word "irony.") > >So, I'll tape it, send it to Andrea, who has volunteered to be the nascent queen bee and breeder of these tapes. I suppose it will then be up to her to distribute the tapes, based on demand. > >I'll tape it. That's final. > >-Andrew (Andrea, contact me with address info. and any additional comments) >Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:53:36 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Fun with Joni - an assignment MG wrote: > Lori had the car thing and that was fun. Nope, that's was Anne's idea, which seemed to branch from "Joni on war" (which of course came from personally politically me). And it was fun, and have we exhausted all the car references yet? > We had parodies about 5 years ago and that was hilarious. Maybe it's > time to try that again. I agree! A couple of things are swirling around in my head, but I don't have time to work on them, so here are some "assignments" for anyone who wants extra credit for Joni Content! : ) 1) Parody "God Must Be A Boogie Man" using the question "What brought you to Joniland?" 2) Damn, now I can't remember! When it comes to me, I'll be back! Lori ~ http://lrfye.lunarpages.com ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:34:40 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: CBC show on Joni Andrea, I'm going to tape the show, come hell or high water. But you're right about Canadian VCRs! This one I've got - I can find no way to press "record" and have it record. BUT I have worked out how to program it to record at a certain time, so I'll do it that way. ;-) Don't worry - it'll get done. Someone just needs to tell me who to send it to first so it gets sent around to everyone who wants it. Sarah At 7:32hour -0500 02/25/2003, Aerchak@aol.com wrote: >My major concern regarding the JMDL at the present moment is finding a >subscriber in Canada with a functioning VCR who can tape the program. I am >wondering if there is a cultural difference among Canadians and Americans >(that I was unaware of ) regarding electronic equipment. The people who have >posted about taping the show all seem to have unreliable VCRs or confusion >about tapes. I am a single woman and have two VCRs and a DVD. Surely, there >is a subcriber in Canada who can tape the show. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #67 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)