From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #65 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, February 24 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 065 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The Grammies and Joni's attitude - trace elements of JC [Bobsart48@ao] deb talan sjc [Mags N Brei ] Re: The State of the List some jc ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: the state of the list ["Heather" ] re:Travelogue review [Deb Messling ] Re: what brought you to joniland? ["Lori Fye" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #141 [Kardinel@aol.com] Re: State of the List [colin ] Travelogue-Piccolos! [mpredmore@att.net] Re: Them Frisbees - (bob's sweet 16 of great joni covers) [SCJoniGuy@aol] Re: State of the List [Rusty10113@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #63 State of the list [colin ] Re: what brought you to joniland? ["Jim Leonard" ] Re: what brought you to joniland? [vince ] Re: what brought you to joniland? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: tenderness and respect [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #63 State of the list [Chris Marshall ] More Grammys (some JC) [Bruce Kimerer ] Woodstock [Scott Price ] Re: what brought you to joniland? [colin ] Re: what brought you to joniland? ["Jim Leonard" ] Joni's Guitars ["paul@anglesnet.com" ] The Notorious Inner Circle [Brian Gross ] Re: what brought you to joniland? [vince ] Re: what brought you to joniland? ["Jim Leonard" ] Re: The State of the List [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Tenderness and respect - damn right! [Little Bird ] Re: Guitars ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: what brought you to joniland? [vince ] apology [vince ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:00:16 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: The Grammies and Joni's attitude - trace elements of JC I watched the Grammies last night. I was ill before watching them, and they did not do too much to improve my spirits or my health. Really, I found the content to be very disappointing. The Norah Jones album was one of only a few that I bought this year. It is a pleasant album, to be sure, and would have been a reasonably worthy "best new artist" award winner in an average year. That it garnered best record, though, is really a sad, sad commentary on the state of pop music these days (especially since I do not feel any violent objections to its having won the award). Here, I think I sense I am disagreeing with my friend Bob Muller again, who has said he feels that Joni's contemporaries are producing fine new work. Is it really that fine, that it could not surpass the Norah Jones album ? I did buy the JT CD (and I like his recent DVD, which has a number of the songs from the new reconrd on it). But I do not think it is that good - sorry Victor. In fact, I would proffer that of Joni's albums, virtually all of them are better records than this year's big winner. Anyway, I will back my judgment to my death bed on LOTC, Blue, FTR, C&S, Hejira, DJRD, Night Ride Home and TI. And how many "Records of the Year" did Joni actually garner ? 0 ? Let us remember, this is not the listening public voting. I have to sympathize with Joni a bit in this regard. I mean, really. When she's right, she's right. Norah Jones is a pleasant performer, but (as she was described on the show) is basically a novice. For example, in terms of talent, she is not even on the same planet as Diana Krall (whose live Paris album was a much more interesting listen, to my ears). Of course, that was not original material, so that is not really a fair comparison. Still.... Gosh, if I keep posting like this, I'll have to start signing all my posts Bob Sourtorius :-) (Hoping my meds kick in ...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:06:24 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: deb talan sjc thanks to jenny, kate and ken for the insight into deb talan...i wanted to post what i've found. here's a bit of information as well as a taste of her work on cdbaby. her musical influences include joni mitchell, shawn colvin, jonatha brooke and suzanne vega. mags. http://cdbaby.com/cd/debtalan You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:02:18 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: The State of the List some jc craig wrote >>His sister Cam introduced me to Joni right after MOA and I was hooked, I knew who Joni was but did not like the scary chick music of the time<< lol..this cracks me up...what was this scary chick music of the time craig? scary like love (joni, laura) or scary like wild (grace, janis)? bob wrote >>I seriously doubt that anyone on the list wants to become Director of Joniland Security! So . . . INCLUDE ME OUT!<< oh bob my sides ache with laughter...(msawl?) ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:10:59 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: the state of the list ron wrote- <> oh yeah. homework. listen to at least one joni song a day. lets keep some truth & beauty fresh in our minds. we all could do with it. This is the simplest yet most pertinent statement I have read thus far. I'm really not into picking apart Joni's lyrics. They are the way they are ... she wrote them. What I do like to read is how Joni's music strikes listers at any particular moment in their day / life. Like the other day when it was snowing so terribly and I got the urge to cook ... I wondered if I should listen to Joni while cooking. Some replied ...no biggie. We are here to discuss Joni's music. Though I am a NJC subscriber since '98, I end up skimming many of the posts. Though I do value much of what is written by listers in an educational way, I have always felt that I wanted the choice of being involved or not. I realize people are different and I always try to understand people viewpoints. That is important to me and keeps me evolving. I've made bonds with several people on this list that I cherish very much. I do feel very strongly about making connections through Joni's music that, until 1998, I thought I was the only one who listened to it! :-) Now I have even MORE homework to do! Thanks a lot, Ron! ;-D As always .... my best to everyone, Heather ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:19:46 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: re:Travelogue review Bruce, I agree completely about Woodstock. So many writers trot out the "voice of her generation" cliche and cite Woodstock as some sort of hippie anthem, but Joni's version of her own song doesn't sound like an anthem at all. I'm not sure it's a particularly hopeful song. She DREAMED she saw the bombers turning into butterflies, but dreams aren't reality. She says we've GOT to get ourselves back to the garden; she doesn't say we're already there. At 05:36 PM 2/24/03 -0500, Bruce wrote: >I pulled out my vinyl of LOTC (I don't have it on CD) the other week and >listened to the original Woodstock for the first time in quite a while. I >was struck by the fact that that initial recording is not a "hippie >reverie" in the least. In fact, it seems to my ears to have much of the >sense of ominous foreboding that is further orchestrated in the Travelogue >version. And that spooky choir of jonivoices at the end is really kind of >chilling. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.445 / Virus Database: 250 - Release Date: 1/21/03 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:37:34 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: what brought you to joniland? Nah ... let's take the NJC tag off, just to see what happens ... Bob "Smurf" Murphy wrote: > Also, I didn't come here nearly three years ago looking for this > pastime. I was trying to sell extra tickets to a Joni concert. Kate wrote: > i love this topic (is it jc or njc?)! i came here about 3 years ago > too! just a bit before everyone was getting ready to go to pazfest... > i almost went but was so new & chickened out...now i wish i had! but > since it was a fundraiser i sent some of my cds for giveaways...i > can't remember why i decided to join but i drawn in immediately to > the friendliness & vast knowledge about joni & such intelligent > conversations... I subscribed sometime in September 1997 (I think), thinking this might be the place to get a "heads up" on new albums and performances. I jumped into the conversation pretty quickly without really introducing myself - instead I wrote a bit about wanting so badly to visit Maidstone when I lived in North Dakota, and wondering if anyone had been there. I was a little intimidated when no one answered, but then Chuck E wrote to welcome me and said, "Stick around." So I did. "No regrets!" Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:43:54 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #63 State of the list What to say, what to say. Initially, I wanted to comment about some of the posts regarding the "state of the list." But by the time I had gotten to the end of the digest, I thought I had read some "argueing" about whether there is an "inner circle" or not. I use quotation marks because I want to be really careful not to offend anyone. At that point I felt, "what really is the point of posting at all?". Half of these folks get each entry as they come in, so by the time the other half gets it in digest form (daily I might add), things have already been responded to and I get confused. Not to mention, I fell twice, not once, on my walk to get the mail. And on the second fall, I took a good bump to my head. That said, some thoughts on the list: 1) I was totally surprised to hear Les say that he didn't care for the political discussions because I thought it was Les that had stated that the people who did not want the political posts had spewed venom or made venomous renarks. After that, I never made a peep because after I posted that I did not think this was the "saddam hussein discussion list" and switched to joni only, I figured that could have been considered "venomous". So I shut up. I felt when I objected to the political content, I had absolutely no support, so I am surprised as to how many people also found that tedious. I have gotten over it now and gotten so used to skimming that it is no longer germane. 2) Overall the JMDL is not warm to new people, there are people who attack you the second you post, and then refuse to make amends when you stick around. Luckily, there are a few good old timers (one in particular for me, but, ONLY ONE, although that's all you need) that makes one welcome. 3) The JMDL is a big clique 4) the JMDL is lacking humor, takes itself way too seriously and should lighten way the fuck up 5) do the members of the JMDL not have lives and 6) do you ever think that if Joni read this she would think we were a bunch of freaks? I love Joni. Her music has a big place in my soul and always will, but I do not know if that is enough to keep me connected with a bunch of strangers in cyberspace. A lot of you talk about deep friendship and deep love, well unless you are all a bunch of total wackjobs, that is for those of you have actually met and connected. For the rest of us it's just words on a screen. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:54:29 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: what brought you to joniland? <<<"No regrets!">> hey Loori, isnt that a Tom Rush tune?? ;-) Im sure we can do a six degrees easily between Tom and Joni can we not?? ahem. what brought me to 'here' in the first place. without going into the gory details, i was venturing out on a new path in life. looking for the key to set me free literally! hey nice lyrics dont you think? anyway... starting about 1999, I had been reading the joni mitchell . com web site and noticed a discussion list, but didnt join in until the spring of 2000. like Heather said...I thought I was the only one who listened to Joni's music...and like our skaterly Jimmy says... surprise surprise surprise!!!!! I found a well established community which I continue to love and enjoy being a part of. ah, more of the gushing of winter mags. okay newbies...how would you enhance your membership here? what can we do to draw you into the centre? what brought you to Joni land? talk to me. Mags aka Moogs. np: Tom Rush, No Regrets :-)) , tks Brei p.s. we are going to see Tom in April at our local community college woohoo... :-) You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:03:09 EST From: Kardinel@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #141 Sometimes I am afraid to post. When I first did someone wrote me and indicated I was some kind of star struck fan and I lost my confidence. I really felt like an idiot. You could say it was my problem but I was trying and had just got a good computer. I have been a joni fan forever but I realize she is not doing much. Travelogue wasn't very interesting to most people and if it hadn't been for this site I wouldn't have heard anything much about it. I don't know anyone who bought it except me. I just don't think many people are interested in her anymore. But soon she will be on PBS and maybe we should do something big for the big 60. I still love her music and even though she talks about the same things all the time, we are all broken records. Maureen 21 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:22:48 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: State of the List John Sprackland wrote: > but then again, hell, when you're >excited about your new vinyl copy of 'Blue' you have to tell SOMEONE! >Its fine, just fine... just ignore the bits you don't dig and cherish >the diamonds in the rough. > exactly John. who do you tell? Your friends who think Joni is music to commit suicide to? Your dog who doesn't give a shit? Ignoring stuff is often a good idea too. >John ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:33:21 +0000 From: mpredmore@att.net Subject: Travelogue-Piccolos! What a great use of piccolos in Slouching Towards Bethlehem... Right as she sings "nightmare". Love those seconds! My favorite of the moment is Job, love those Vince Mendoza treatments! Mary in Calif. "If you want me, I'll be in the bar..." P.S. Steve Dulson, where are you? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:38:06 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Them Frisbees - (bob's sweet 16 of great joni covers) In a message dated 2/24/2003 5:33:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, pleader@nyc.rr.com writes: > but a great unknown song, of which there are many off > that band's first two or three albums... I guess Kansas jumped the proverbial shark but not before they put out some GREAT stuff. Howzabout this for a Kansas-Joni bridge..."Borne on Wings of Steel" from their awesome "Masque" had the Icarus metaphor just like Joni's "Amelia"! I guess I lost track of them after "Point Of Know Return" but like you say that early stuff was great! > > could you post the tracklist of your first > sweet 16 again? Here you go: 1. Lydia van Dam - All I Want 2. Will Taylor - Black Crow 3. Karin Allyson - Blue Motel Room 4. The Rumba Club - This Flight Tonight 5. Anni Clark - He Comes For Conversation 6. Christine Sullivan - I Think I Understand 7. Mark Wise - Woodstock 8. Prince - A Case Of You 9. Gregson & Collister - Same Situation 10. Bonnie Raitt - That Song About The Midway 11. Jack Donahue - Little Green 12. Chaka Khan - Man From Mars 13. Carla Helmbrecht - Song To A Seagull 14. Kevyn Lettau - You Turn Me On I'm A Radio 15. Counting Crows - Big Yellow Taxi 16. Carl Verheyen - Cactus Tree Bob NP: The Blind Boys of Alabama, "Run On For A Long Time" (speaking of awesome...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:41:05 EST From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: State of the List Hi...some thoughts from a lurker who's been prodded out of his online slumber by some incredibly eloquent posts on Joni and gay men, which I totally related to, and felt brave enough to share some of my personal expriences, all Joni releated, while perhaps hoping to m ake some profound connections... Some history: I found the list because I was in the midst of a troubled time, and I turned to Joni's music full force to get through it. I was doing some temp jobs, with lots of time to surf the web, and found myself reading anything and everything Joni...the website, and its incredible content saved me, to be sure...then, I learned there was a list...coffee and Joni chat, sounded great to me! I subscribed to the list to feel less lonely, to make some connections possibly, and keep up on Joni news...not very complicated, my idea of a fantastic day would be coffee, a cool cafe and lots of Joni filtering through the speakers... so, when I see a lot of drama or fussing about politics and nitpicky stuff and rules and all on the list each day, I tend to tune out, and lose interest... kinda disapointing, really... Since my recent post, i've made some wonderful off-line connections, and felt a small sense of belonging that I've loved...the main reason I was interested in the list to begin with... so I sure hope the list stays friendly, inclusive and incredibly warm and non-judgmental... a lot of lurkers such as myself would rise to the surface, trust me.. Mitch in NYC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:42:54 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #63 State of the list Aerchak@aol.com wrote: > > 2) Overall the JMDL is not >warm to new people, there are people who attack you the second you post, and >then refuse to make amends when you stick around. Luckily, there are a few >good old timers (one in particular for me, but, ONLY ONE, although that's all >you need) that makes one welcome. 3) The JMDL is a big clique 4) the JMDL >is lacking humor, takes itself way too seriously and should lighten way the >fuck up 5) do the members of the JMDL not have lives and 6) do you ever >think that if Joni read this she would think we were a bunch of freaks? > > > You know Andrea in point 2 you make what could seem a valid statement and then in your next poitns go on to insult people. Maybe that is why oyu have had neagtive responses? Maybe I am being thick, and misreading what is meant to be friendly and complimentary. Unless I have got you confused with another person, I seem to recall a number of private posts between us regarding our love of dogs.I hope I was not the only person who wrote you in friendly manner. if so, poor you to have only me as a friend! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:46:56 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #141 Kardinel@aol.com wrote: > >Travelogue wasn't very interesting to most people > and lets not forget the flaming that took place when Trevelogue was discussed. And when BSN was and when TTT was! Even Joni can bring out the worst! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:46:19 -0500 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: what brought you to joniland? I'm a 48-year old music junkie, first and foremost, and my first experiences "surfing the 'net" were, naturally, centered around searches for my favorite artists. I didn't even know discussion lists existed when I got my computer, but I joined the Rust List (Neil Young), Van-L (the Van Morrison Discussion List), the Pat Metheny list (on which jazz, in general, is also discussed) and the JMDL - all on that same first day. I'm far more active on the others than on the JMDL, as they're far more "on topic" in terms of being music-based. Yet, a similar-but-different sense of community pervades each of them, and listers do get together for concerts and fests. In the case of Neil Young's fans, the big one is the annual International Rust Fest at Neil's Bridge School Benefit Concerts in Mountain View, CA. The Rusties camp out (or stay in nearby hotels), play music around the campfires all night ... all the same kinds of things I've read are done at the Joni Fests. I've left this list and then returned, and I remain subscribed to the JMDL for the JC and the music-related NJC, because I'm interested in the musical tastes of Joni's fan base. As to which lister's birthday it is, and what I believe are the should-be-private posts which are sent to the list so that all can know how ______ the poster is (insert your choice of sensitive, caring, etc.), I gotta say it all gets a little too touchy-feely for me. As a matter of fact, I wish I could find a post I sent to the JMDL at a similar sniping-turned-self-examination point a year or two ago. I think I titled it "The JMDL (a lurker's perspective"). Me and, I think, Julius (?) went a couple of rounds because of it, but I also got a fair amount of off-list mail - some from very surprising quarters - which agreed with me. I remember I wrote that it would be interesting to see a remake of Alfred Hitchcock's "Lifeboat" starring the members of the JMDL. (Murphy laughed, I recall.) :-) My point was that much of the professed "love" between listers is/was delusional and/or insincere, and that it vanishes when the rubber hits the road. So, I say ... save your love for your families and your significant others, and for those JMDLers you really do get to know well in the flesh and come to love. Then, profess that love off-list, where the sentiment really means something, and is not for public show. Instead, let's talk music! If not Joni's all the time, there's a world of other artists' music we can discuss. How 'bout we throw Jewel to the wolves? Best, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:54:51 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: what brought you to joniland? Lori Fye wrote: >I subscribed sometime in September 1997 (I think), thinking this might >be the place to get a "heads up" on new albums and performances. > me too! oh, that's right, it is against the rules to post a "me too" post so I will add, it was about 13 months later for me. I bet Lori (and everyone else) enjoyed those 13 months! Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:58:56 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: what brought you to joniland? I just wanted to see if there was anyone else on the planet that thought Hejira was the best record that had ever been made. Found out I wasn't as strange as I had previously suspected. ;~) Bob NP: Blind Boys, "Way Down In The Hole" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:06:01 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: tenderness and respect Magswrites: > Ive learned so much .. not only about Joni herself, Ive lived into what it means to be a part of a real community comprised of intelligent, funny, warm, sexy, sassy, sweet people from all over the world. I agree with everything you said, Mags, and with the post from Jimmy that prompted your reply. I met with a very good friend of mine from Argentina (Wally, AKA the Birthday Fairy) the other night in Boston and had a wonderful time. Now I know most of you probably think of me as a suave, cosmopolitan type, flitting from one continent to another, but I am really just a provincial New Englander at heart. Fact is, before I joined this list I didn't even KNOW anyone from Argentina! Now I've met all kinds of terrific people -- from New Orleans to New Zealand! I would go out of my way any day of the week to meet any JMDLers I've never met before if they came to Boston, or if I traveled to their neck of the woods, or at a Jonifest. I'll never forget when Walt came to visit me when I lived in Rhode Island. We sat down and talked like old friends right away. I've learned here that a friend of Joni's is a friend of mine. The love and caring Mags talks about it real. I almost left the JMDL after my first week or so because there was a flame war going on and I also felt like an outsider. But then my (now) great friend Ashara told me to stick around, that it would change. It did, and I'm still here. I just hope it continues to be the incredible place it has been. - --Bob NPIMH: Me, softly weeping . . . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 01:09:29 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #63 State of the list On Monday, Feb 24, 2003, at 23:43 Europe/London, Aerchak@aol.com wrote: > 2) Overall the JMDL is not > warm to new people, there are people who attack you the second you > post, and > then refuse to make amends when you stick around. Luckily, there are > a few > good old timers (one in particular for me, but, ONLY ONE, although > that's all > you need) that makes one welcome. 3) The JMDL is a big clique 4) > the JMDL > is lacking humor, takes itself way too seriously and should lighten > way the > fuck up 5) do the members of the JMDL not have lives and 6) do you > ever > think that if Joni read this she would think we were a bunch of freaks? 2) Think of the number of people on the list - somewhere around 800 at last count (Les?). For every one person that attacks you, I'm willing to bet that there's at least 10 or so that probably read your post and don't. That's a nice ratio to bear in mind. 3) If the JMDL is a clique, it's a very damn big clique. :) 4) Nooooooo. Stick around longer, I think you'll change that view. The JMDL has been very serious *of late*, but really does not lack humour or take itself seriously. Really. I suppose hypothetically it could be argued that, at times, individuals are guilty of the things you mentioned. But the whole list? That's a big brush to be tarring with, I really have to assume you didn't quite mean it that way? 5) Yes, we all have lives - as I'm sure do you (I'm not sure you meant it to be a rhetorical question, but it is grammatically so :-). I think that this was a touch unfair: everyone's circumstances are different, leaving some more time than others to post here. 6) Ah - the $6,000,000 question! Probably. And she probably has read this in the past - it would be hard to imagine not given that she once visited the original creator of www.jonimitchell.com and would certainly have become aware of the list then, if she wasn't before. That said... I couldn't care less what Joni thinks of us or me. It's a free world, and if she gets the hump if I diss her 80s output, then so be it. She's still the most influential songwriter/musician I've ever come across. All in all, my impression is that in your eyes, collectively, we've been judged and found wanting, on a fairly small sample of events at what is a very serious time in the world. As Colin said - the list ebbs and flows. The heat and seriousness of the moment is just a phase. The JMDL is quite unlike any other internet list or community I've ever come across, and I've been online for over 10 years now. As such, it has a lot to offer, but I guess the flipside is that it demands something in return - it's not quite a free ride. Me? I'm glad I joined, I'm glad I stuck with it, even when one or two things had me absolutely incandescent. Regards, - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:19:51 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: what brought you to joniland? Jim writes: > I gotta say it all gets a little too touchy-feely for me. Now me: I think somebody needs a great, big JMDL cyberhug! C'mere, ya big lug! Jim also says: > I wrote that it would be interesting to see a remake of Alfred Hitchcock's > "Lifeboat" starring the members of the JMDL. (Murphy > laughed, I recall.) :-) Me: Yes, that IS funny! I can just see that poor, clueless Muller accidentially saving us all by using his pathetic covers frisbee CDs to attract the search planes! - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 01:30:23 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: what brought you to joniland? Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > > > >>I wrote that it would be interesting to see a remake of Alfred Hitchcock's >>"Lifeboat" starring the members of the JMDL. (Murphy >>laughed, I recall.) :-) >> I am glad i can swim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:36:14 -0500 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: More Grammys (some JC) In today's NY Daily News, Jim Farber quotes Jay Newland, who won a Grammy for engineering Norah Jones's album. Newland says he wanted the album "to sound like the ones I grew up with, like an old Joni Mitchell album -- not compressed to death." What does he mean by 'compressed'? Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:35:11 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Woodstock At 06:19 PM 2/24/2003 -0500, Deb Messling wrote about "Woodstock:" >So many writers trot out the "voice of her generation" cliche and cite >Woodstock as some sort of hippie anthem To me, the song always was and always will be a hippie anthem. :-) If some want to label it "the voice of a generation" I think it's a compliment to the songwriter for capturing the emotion of an entire generation. >She DREAMED she saw the bombers turning into butterflies, but dreams >aren't reality. She says we've GOT to get ourselves back to the garden; >she doesn't say we're already there. Isn't that the point? The reality in 1969 was bombers strafing southeast Asia, the dream was and still is to take this flying machine of destruction and turn it into something more peaceful and beautiful, like a butterfly. She's *hoping* society will find the garden, or some semblance of a garden. Few would have argued then that we were "already there" in the garden...the *dream* was for everyone to get there...and that is why the song is an anthem. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 01:37:44 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: what brought you to joniland? Jim Leonard wrote: > >My point was that much of the professed "love" between listers is/was >delusional and/or insincere, and that it vanishes when the rubber hits the >road. So, I say ... save your love for your families and your significant >others, and for those JMDLers you really do get to know well in the flesh >and come to love. Then, profess that love off-list, where the sentiment >really means something, and is not for public show. > > > I think we often see ourselves reflected back at us. Perhaps what we percieve as deleusional and insincere just is how we are rather than the way they are. I undertsand your positon. i have always had a hard time believing anyone was sincere. I een used tot hink my love of 22 years must be a secret serial killer or some other type of sicko because otherwise what was he doing with me? i ahev learned otherwise of ocurse both abouthim and about other people. (john turned out to be far worse than i could imagine..he has a little tattoo on his thigh whihc reads 666 but we won;t go into that) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:01:00 -0500 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: what brought you to joniland? Colin wrote: > I think we often see ourselves reflected back at us. Perhaps what we percieve as deleusional and insincere just is how we are rather than the way they are. > I undertsand your positon. i have always had a hard time believing anyone was sincere. > Thanks for your response, Colin. I do think you misunderstood my point, though. When my family and close friends say they love me, I do believe them, and they believe me when I say the same to them. Our words have been borne out by our actions, on a 24/7 face-to-face basis, for years, in spite of all our faults being on constant display. A Joni Mitchell Discussion List is a whole other thing. I'm not denying there is real affection between certain members of this list. But that affection has been (for the most part) easy to come by, not hard-won, and therefore not necessarily enduring. If what you have to say is personal and sincere, tell the person in a private post. What purpose is served in making a public one, on a Joni Mitchell Discussion List? My guess is that the poster isn't as concerned with the effect the message has on the supposed recipient and he or she is with the effect it has on his/her image in the greater community. Best, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:16:08 -0800 From: "paul@anglesnet.com" Subject: Joni's Guitars Recently, bobsart@aol.com used this forum to question the eBay listing I posted for one of Joni Mitchell's guitars. That's unfortunate because s/he could easily have just asked me directly and avoided a lot of needless speculation. Or, s/he could have just called Westwood Music and asked for Fred. My email address was used in my post and on eBay and I always send my phone number with my signature. A number of potential buyers, from around the world, did write and/or call and we had numerous in-depth conversations about the guitar, the documentation, Joni, Fred Walecki, Westwood Music, my role, etc. If bobsart@aol.com is really interested in truth and not speculation, he or she is welcome to write or call me. And, yes, I do agree that the buyer got a steal and he agrees. It's a great guitar that comes with a signed note from Joni saying which tours she played it on. He took pictures of her playing that very guitar in concert at Wembley in 1983. My best to all, Paul - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul D. Angles | Marketing & Strategy paul@anglesnet.com | 310-704-9448 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:19:57 -0500 From: Brian Gross Subject: The Notorious Inner Circle At 10:00 this evening, medication will be dispensed by Nurse Ratchet and her assistant, Bob McMurphy. Please line up at the sliding window for your blue pill and joint us as we form the Inner Circle. np: the breaking of a special dark bar ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:23:09 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: what brought you to joniland? Jim Leonard wrote: >A Joni Mitchell Discussion List is a whole other thing. I'm not denying >there is real affection between certain members of this list. But that >affection has been (for the most part) easy to come by, not hard-won, and >therefore not necessarily enduring. If what you have to say is personal and >sincere, tell the person in a private post. What purpose is served in making >a public one, on a Joni Mitchell Discussion List? My guess is that the >poster isn't as concerned with the effect the message has on the supposed >recipient and he or she is with the effect it has on his/her image in the >greater community. > > Oh sometimes, but sometimes it is very necessary to affirm the positive feelings towards other posters because we do so damn good at posting the negative - reaffirmations that there is affection between posters is a necesary counterpoint to some of the rest, even when those differing opinions are offered with upmost civility - and sometimes it is treacle and James, I love you guy, you are the greatest, you are so wonderful, I can't express how much I love you and love your posts! Vince (is anyone reading this and scoring me good points?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:28:14 -0500 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: what brought you to joniland? Vince wrote: > Oh sometimes, but sometimes it is very necessary to affirm the positive feelings towards other posters because we do so damn good at posting the negative > In those cases, I don't really have a bone to pick. If someone has been slammed publicly, and apologies and or sticking-up-for posts should be public, too. > and sometimes it is treacle > Those are the instances I'm talking about. > and James, I love you guy, you are the greatest, you are so wonderful, I can't express how much I love you and love your posts! > :-) And I, you, Vince. As a matter of fact, your Grammy Awards post was right on the mark (almost). As you say, Norah Jones should have won Best New Artist. Period. As for Album Of The Year, however, unlike you I'd have voted for Springsteen. I'm not arguing "The Rising" was the best album released in 2002, just that it was the "album of the year," if you understand my distinction. Best, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:47:51 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: The State of the List In a message dated 2/23/03 11:50:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, ljirvin@jmdl.com writes: > What can be done? I am really interested in a frank, civilized discussion > on the state of the list. Along with a list of grievances, I'd also > appreciate some real suggestions on how to actively improve the JMDL. > I suggested it before........ a forum board (instead of live email via smoe) accessed only on the JMDL. You can choose to register or just be a guest. This way there can be no bitching about all the boring emails you're getting and having to delete. We can have one discussion forum for political discussions (which is where you must post them), one main discussion board for Joni only or non-related. On the main discussion forum, based on the subject matter of the post, you can pick & choose the ones you want to read. This seems to work well on another list I'm registered with. ~rosie in nj Better ask questions before you shoot Deceit and betrayal's bitter fruit It's hard to swallow, come time to pay. That taste on your tongue don't easily slip away Let Kingdom come. I'm gonna find my way Through this lonesome day ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:07:48 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Tenderness and respect - damn right! I think Mags hit the nail on the head when she said that respect and tenderness are key components in any community. Those qualities exist here, for sure. I wasn't slagging any one person or any one group when I commented on respect for new members but I do know from off-list discussions with some people that there are those who feel occasionally alienated or ignored here, and yes, even belittled. There was the person who wanted to make it his mission in life to ridicule another list member because of a naive comment that he made, there was the person who was essentially giving me "the finger" in retaliation to one of my opinions and there are numerous other examples of nastiness that I could cite here but don't have the inclination to do so. I don't feel a victim and I actually feel that my posts are generally very well received. I've had numerous people write to me off-list with pleasant comments to make and I truly value those comments. I was simply raising the point that there IS ugliness on this list from time to time and was, perhaps, simply trying to diagnose an illness that needs to be cured, since Les asked for a discussion of the problems or symptoms of negativity. I feel very comfortable here and there are so many people on this list who make it great! As I said, I was made to feel very, very welcome. It's the snide remarks and nastiness that I perceive from time to time that get me to thinking there are some who simply can't, or won't, stomach it and will therefore unsubscribe, taking with them their experiences, their stories, their thoughts that they had wanted to express to us but felt stonewalled by a few bad apples who like being cranky or who are just not receptive. - -Andrew Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:15:59 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Woodstock --- Scott Price wrote: > To me, the song always was and always will be a > hippie anthem. Dec wrote: > >She DREAMED she saw the bombers turning into > butterflies, but dreams > >aren't reality. She says we've GOT to get > ourselves back to the garden; > >she doesn't say we're already there. Scott: > Isn't that the point? The reality in 1969 was > bombers strafing southeast > Asia, the dream was and still is to take this flying > machine of destruction > and turn it into something more peaceful and > beautiful, like a butterfly. Joni again on war and peace and the dream: "Sitting in a park in Paris, France Reading the news and it's all bad They won't give peace a chance That was just a dream some of us had." ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:18:02 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Guitars hi bob, sounds to me it was an error not intentional as you seem to have concluded also...i was in fred's store last year & he pointed up to a loft where there were several guitars & said those are joni's old guitars & i think he mentioned something about selling them for her...i wish i had asked for a look but i was there for other reasons...it may be that he is selling him in the way that music stores will sell a guitar for you on commission & take a bit out for doing so...but this is just my guess... everytime i have heard someone mention fred it is with great love & admiration...he is a legend among musicians for his devotion to helping them throughout the years & also for coming up with the idea for joni's vg8, so indeed they have an important history together... about 2? years ago many of the biggest stars in music put together a benefit to help him with his costs relating to his illness...i am pretty sure kakki was there & could tell you more about how he is beloved by many... meeting him was a wonderful experience- he is one energetic & intelligent guy! that is most of what i know about fred... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:27:13 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: what brought you to joniland? Jim Leonard wrote: >As for Album Of The Year, however, unlike you I'd have voted for >Springsteen. I'm not arguing "The Rising" was the best album released in >2002, just that it was the "album of the year," if you understand my >distinction. > That is the stupidest, most idiotic thing I have ever read in my life. The only taste you have is in your mouth. How fucking full of shit can one person's uninformed opinion be? I'd call your opinion utter foolishness but that would be an insult to fools everywhere. Ha Ha! There! Is the lovefest over? :-) Seriously not sure that I agree but I think your case can be made with great legitimacy. Makes more sense here than in best rock album since the rock community really didn't embrace it - it was rock not for the whole rock world but a more defined community, the audience for Nebraska, an album that was an attempt to use rock to transcend rock in making a statement that ahd great meaning for some people. This album used rock as the vehicle for a much broader statement in a way that hasn't been done before, rock as an expression of America in a way that is unique. The Rising was not rock for an age group, for a musical category, but to express the essence of the nation. That is a breakthrough. Am I making sense? Not sure I am explaining the concept I am going for here. That fault to be clear is mine. My argument for the Eminem Show is not only the quality of the record, being yet another new step forward in rap in which he addresses national issues, political and racial issues confronting our country, but his movement towards establishing more clearly the source of his anger - parents who neglect or abuse their children - and he clearly identifies his pain in the same song in which he states very clearly what is love, what his life is, what is meaningful to him beyond anything: his daughter Hailey. Long time Em fans know his love for Hailey but never did he say that so evocatively, for him, being rapper, being star, it all means nothing, not at all and the madness of the music business can be destructive, and in all this, what is real, what is the only, supra important thing in life. is loving your child(ren) - because of the things that Em dealt with in the album, this was the rap album that has begun to break through - stories in the New York Times magazine, the New Yorker, the New Yorker cartoons based on Em actually crossing over to a new demographic , the 30-50 crowd - this album shattered a lot of stereotypes and break new ground and break down barriers for some who prior to its release rejected out of hand - so the significance of The Eminem Show is real, groundbreaking. And it was a damn fine album on every level. So that is my argument for why it should have been album of the year - I know I am biased so who gives a damn what I think - but there it is. Between Springsteen and Eminem there were two valid contenders for album of the year. I might grant the Dixie Chicks a nomination as they certainly are speaking well to their audience, but I wouldn't give it to them because it had no vision to break through to something new as Springsteen and Em did. No one to settle what should have been the choice between these choice and was Coldplay in the category - to me the album of the year should do something to break barriers, move people in a new way, influence the course of music as Graceland did for example which didn't introduce world music but gave us a while new vision and direction of what world music should be - so it was Springsteen and Eminem they should have chose between the the Grammys took the safe middle of the road aor approach. Just my thought. Dis them everyone, or ignore them, just offering my thoughts on the day after the Grammys. Vince NP on the TV: MTV Challenge, Road Rules vs Real World, Battle of the Sexes - another sign that I have some serious issues therapy can't touch ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:31:36 -0500 From: vince Subject: apology damn it all, this should have been NJC and I thought I typed it into the subject and I didn't Joni Onlys, I respect you and I deeply apologize Vince the JMDL idiot vince wrote: > Jim Leonard wrote: > >> As for Album Of The Year, however, unlike you I'd have voted for >> Springsteen. I'm not arguing "The Rising" was the best album released in >> 2002, just that it was the "album of the year," if you understand my >> distinction. >> > That is the stupidest, most idiotic thing I have ever read in my life. > The only taste you have is in your mouth. How fucking full of shit > can one person's uninformed opinion be? I'd call your opinion utter > foolishness but that would be an insult to fools everywhere. > > Ha Ha! There! Is the lovefest over? :-) > > Seriously not sure that I agree but I think your case can be made with > great legitimacy. Makes more sense here than in best rock album since > the rock community really didn't embrace it - it was rock not for the > whole rock world but a more defined community, the audience for > Nebraska, an album that was an attempt to use rock to transcend rock > in making a statement that ahd great meaning for some people. This > album used rock as the vehicle for a much broader statement in a way > that hasn't been done before, rock as an expression of America in a > way that is unique. The Rising was not rock for an age group, for a > musical category, but to express the essence of the nation. That is a > breakthrough. Am I making sense? Not sure I am explaining the > concept I am going for here. That fault to be clear is mine. > > My argument for the Eminem Show is not only the quality of the record, > being yet another new step forward in rap in which he addresses > national issues, political and racial issues confronting our country, > but his movement towards establishing more clearly the source of his > anger - parents who neglect or abuse their children - and he clearly > identifies his pain in the same song in which he states very clearly > what is love, what his life is, what is meaningful to him beyond > anything: his daughter Hailey. Long time Em fans know his love for > Hailey but never did he say that so evocatively, for him, being > rapper, being star, it all means nothing, not at all and the madness > of the music business can be destructive, and in all this, what is > real, what is the only, supra important thing in life. is loving your > child(ren) - > > because of the things that Em dealt with in the album, this was the > rap album that has begun to break through - stories in the New York > Times magazine, the New Yorker, the New Yorker cartoons based on Em > actually crossing over to a new demographic , the 30-50 crowd - this > album shattered a lot of stereotypes and break new ground and break > down barriers for some who prior to its release rejected out of hand - > so the significance of The Eminem Show is real, groundbreaking. And > it was a damn fine album on every level. So that is my argument for > why it should have been album of the year - I know I am biased so who > gives a damn what I think - but there it is. > > Between Springsteen and Eminem there were two valid contenders for > album of the year. I might grant the Dixie Chicks a nomination as > they certainly are speaking well to their audience, but I wouldn't > give it to them because it had no vision to break through to something > new as Springsteen and Em did. > No one to settle what should have been the choice between these choice > and was Coldplay in the category - to me the album of the year should > do something to break barriers, move people in a new way, influence > the course of music as Graceland did for example which didn't > introduce world music but gave us a while new vision and direction of > what world music should be - so it was Springsteen and Eminem they > should have chose between the the Grammys took the safe middle of the > road aor approach. > > Just my thought. Dis them everyone, or ignore them, just offering my > thoughts on the day after the Grammys. > > Vince > NP on the TV: MTV Challenge, Road Rules vs Real World, Battle of the > Sexes - another sign that I have some serious issues therapy can't touch ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #65 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)