From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #62 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, February 24 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 062 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Joni and cars ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Re: joni on CBC [Catherine McKay ] New Joni Picture [est86mlm@ameritech.net] RE: wall to wall [Jenny Goodspeed ] Cure for insomnia? [Les Irvin ] comments on my perfect box set ["walterphil" ] Re: Re: Newport JAZZ Festival vs. Newport FOLK Festival ["Timothy Spong"] Need help with live Joni CD [CDTraderJohn@aol.com] Re: sJC / Tracks of our years [Freddyb4@aol.com] Re: Newport JAZZ Festival vs. Newport FOLK Festival [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: Dar Williams, SJC [Jenny Goodspeed ] The Covers Project -- attention Bob Muller! [Catherine McKay ] Re: GRAMMY AWARDS are on now, jc [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: comments on my perfect box set [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] she said jazz but i think she meant folk ["walterphil" ] The State of the List [Les Irvin ] Re: The State of the List [Little Bird ] Re: Joni's guitars [Dan Olson ] Re: The State of the List [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: The State of the List [Scott Price ] Today's Library Links: February 24 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: New Joni Picture ["Moni Kellermann" ] Re: joni on CBC ["Moni Kellermann" ] Re: comments on my perfect box set - Petula Clark ["Moni Kellermann" Subject: RE: Joni and cars this one didn't pop into my head immediately, possibly because she may not actually be referring to an "automobile". Lama Joan said, >>>> I hope you got your heat turned on baby I hope they finally fixed your automobile I hope it's better when we meet again baby ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 07:55:27 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: joni on CBC --- joe farrell wrote: > Just to endorse Bob's point on Joni on CBC March > 4&11, hope one or more of > our Canadian listers will tape the shows. It would > be brilliant if the > copies could be made into a video tree and made > avalable to other listers > worldwide subject to the usual terms. > > Really hope that this will happen as it sounds as if > the shows have the > potential to be really interesting > I will tape it if my VCR is behaving itself - I don't trust the bugger. And I don't have the capability of making copies, so how would I be able to make a copy to send to anyone? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 07:30:47 -0600 From: est86mlm@ameritech.net Subject: New Joni Picture Andrew, You can see this photo at: http://www.williamclaxton.com/movie.html in the 'Recent Work' gallery under Portfolio. Click on the small picture of Joni to enlarge it. (Bottom Left) Caption next to picture: Joni Mitchell Bel Air, 1997 I liked the way the light filtered through the sycamore trees onto her face. That and the fact that she makes cigarette smoking a most sensual act for a beautiful lady. Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 05:35:11 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: RE: wall to wall Hi Heather, I usually drive down to CT and take the train - so maybe we could meet up somewhere and take the train together. Let's definitely make some plans! Jenny Heather wrote:i certainly would like to jenny. would you be driving? i usually take the train. let's make a plan. anyone else want to team up? heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Jenny Goodspeed Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 10:55 AM To: SCJoniGuy@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: trying Joni only and wall to wall - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote:Thanks for signing back on, Mark...another reason for me to stick around, which I was looking for. > Bob Oh no, Bob - were you thinking of jumping ship all together? I switched to Joni only recently too. But sometimes scan the non-joni-only archives - like a bad habit I can't drop (I can think of worse habits, though). I have been wondering if the nature of the JMDL has been changing, since some longtime listers are switching to joni-only - or is this just a natural cycle of the list. Did you say you were thinking of coming up north for Wall to Wall Joni. I'm thinking of going too. I'm curious, is anybody else making the trip to the big apple for the free show? Jenny Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 11:56:06 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Cure for insomnia? Joniphiles - There's a new article in the Library for all you academic types. It's an analysis of her "harmonic innovation" published last spring by Cambridge University. Some pretty interesting points are made but it's not for the faint of heart as it runs 20 pages long in the publication and includes sentences like: "The Mixolydian flavour in this song takes the form of an extended 7th chord built on the tonic. In the instrumental interlude this chord (D13-11) is non-functional  or rather, a function (movement to IV) is implied without materialising." Here 'tis: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1056 Possible snoozefest for some... :-) Les... who hasn't even mentioned that the Library has surpassed the 1,000 milestone. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:08:42 -0500 (EST) From: "walterphil" Subject: comments on my perfect box set dear bob how dare you even attempt to criticise all of my hard work? ha ha kidding actually i agreeed with all of your comments (especially howling at the ann landers reference) stupid of me for mixing the 2 songs (the streisand cover) actually i am kind of a streisand fan (pre rock era only!!) i just love calling her the ol hag to get her legions of adoring fans going i'm also a huge pet clark fan. way way way way WAY underrated. her work with producer tony hatch is on par with the beatles, or anything else. ((all right all right, calm down everyone, maybe not THE BEATLES...but anything else!!!) yes chalk mark may be cosidered by some to be her worst---but it aint---dog eat dog is--by a landslide!!! at least chalk mark has 1. a better cover (ick that perm on DED 2. i think cool water, bird that whistles and beat of black wings are shimmering, melodic and beautiful (synth washes and all). and who could knock the benign willie nelson? (altho how she could be in the same room with don henly is beyond me) DED has the one good song, in my opinion, "impossible dreamer." (well i kind of dig "empty try another" but that doesn't reall count.) i can't get my needle anywhere near the vinyl on that lp. the last time my turntable ejected it out the window when the "3 great stimulants" started playing. i had to go down to the courtyard of my building to retrieve it. thanks for writing love this list and love everything else joni ever did (don't get me started on travelog tho) walt The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 20:02:49 +0000 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: Re: Re: Newport JAZZ Festival vs. Newport FOLK Festival On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, at 13:01:36 EST, KJHSF@aol.com (Ken) wrote (in Re: Newport Jazz Festival vs. Newport Folk Festival: > >In a message dated 2/22/2003 12:03:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, >tim_spong@hotmail.com writes: > > > > a time when Joni said > > she planned to ride with Judy Collins to the "Newport Jazz Festival" and > > was > > stood up. > >What is up with this story? Does anyone know why she stood Joni up? I >read >about this in People magazine back around the time of DED's release. Is >Joni >as unforgiving as I am about this? I recall the article saying that Joni >was >"uncharacteristically unkind" when speaking about Judy Collins. > >Ken > .... Tim responds: There has been discussion of this event before; if you missed it, I understand threads can be searched on the jmdl site, although I have not done so myself. I don't think the specific reason has ever been mentioned. Maybe nobody knows but Judy. Perhaps some emergent contingency was to blame, or miscommunication, or, even though it strains credulity, Judy actually, simply, forgot. I hope, 30-plus years on, JM has forgiven JC. Similarly, there has been discussion that there was resentment by JM toward Joan Baez about -- what was it? Causing Joni's set to be cut short in a joint appearance? I hope their mutual attitude has evolved toward "let bygones be bygones." Also, on Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003, at 13:24:21 -0500, vince , on >Subject: Re: the box set, writes: > >SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > >Obviously, I also LOVED Patrick's idea of including covers that are/were >significant. As much as we love Joni, I hazard to say that without the >early success of her covers, her career may not have come to the fruition >that it did. > > > > > > >Which is say, Judy Collins put Joni on the map. A lot of people first >listened to Joni, myself included, because we were intrigued with who it >was that wrote that beautiful song - which was beautiful in its day >before it was done to death by everyone and almost become a clichi. > >Vince > Tim adds: Just so. Their relationship was symbiotic. They mutually benefited. Lastly, on Sat, 22 Feb 2003, at 11:39:42 -0700, Dan Olson wrote, on >Subject: Re: Newport Jazz Festival vs. Newport Folk Festival: > >I'd bet that they (she?) meant the Newport Folk Festival. Ironically, >beginning in the mid-70's, the JAZZ festival would have been a more >appropriate venue, but at some point, they stopped calling it the "Newport" >jazz festival, in favor of KOOL, and later other corporate sponsors (JVC >comes to mind). This reminds me of the typo in several photo captions in >the "Joni Mitchell Companion", where it's referred to as the "Newport FALLS >Festival". > .. and Tim responds: Well, the article from the link quoted Joni directly, so "she," not "they," apparently meant the Newport Folk Festival, because Judy Collins has never been strongly associated (to my knowledge) with Jazz, and that time was before Joni was. Tim Spong in soggy-with-rain-and-melting-snow Dover, Del., U.S.A. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:36:45 EST From: CDTraderJohn@aol.com Subject: Need help with live Joni CD Can anyone help me identify a CD I just traded for that, purportedly, was taken from a January 1972 BBC broadcast. Here is my best stab at the setlist: 1) This Flight Tonight 2) ?? 3) Big Yellow Taxi 4) (I'd Just Like t See You Sometime??) 5) Song About the Midway 6) The Gallery 7) The Priest 8) California 9) Carey 10) You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio 11) ?? 12) ----- is there a 12th track??? (not on mine) My copy cuts out abruptly after the 11th track, but it appears there may have been another song or even two on the original source tape. Also, some of these tracks appear on the "Blonde in the Bleachers" compilation tape that circulates. I'm always looking for artwork and/or setlists for Joni's shows. Anyone know where I can find a good source? And lastly, is there anyone out there who might have good, clean (early generation sourced) CD copies of some early (through 1974) shows they might be willing to trade with me? It is very difficult locating decent sources for some of these shows -- many are either badly edited, glitch-filled, or late generation copies. Thanks for any help you can provide. (By the way, I welcome information even if you don't want to trade, so please don't let that request keep you from responding). Thanks, John in Massachusetts ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:41:03 EST From: Freddyb4@aol.com Subject: Re: sJC / Tracks of our years Hello All In the middle pages of "The Daily Mail" Saturday 22nd Feb, is an Article which begins - Nick Hornbys best seller "High fidelity" revealed the secret of what boys do in their private moments. They make lists of their favourite records. Now Hornby has gone a step further, his new book is 31 Songs, a series of essays on his favourite records. Sadly the essays are good, but most of the records are not...........The writer of this article Ray Connolly then goes on to list his own 31 songs with brief reasons for their inclusion, and Joni is included with two photos. He says "I really let myself down when I interviewed Joni Mitchell by not being familiar with her work. She quickly realized of course and played me tracks from her latest Album "Blue", and converted me on the spot. I could choose half a dozen of her songs but "For Free" is the current favourite. A simple idea for a book, but he knows we all share this !!!!!!!(Lucy what word am I looking for ??) Affinity, is that right ? The songs we hear, the records we bought are marks in time, each one a step along our personal "life path" and when we play them or hear them on the radio, there is that footprint, we can with such clarity remember a dance, a day, a summer, a love. Each of our lists would be different, but as we are mostly people of the same era we will share many similar memories I remember a school trip to France, 1966, and sitting on a beach in Brittany on a Sunday afternoon listening to the TOP 10 on a small tranny radio, N0 1 "Wont Somebody Help Me" The Spencer Davis group, brilliant! My first real girl friend bought me Jose Falicianos "Light My Fire"68. Dylans "Nashville Skyline " seemed to be being played non stop through out 1969(Lay Lady Lay) James Taylors "Youve got a friend" and Joni singing on "Blue" won me the love of my life. When it comes to sad memories the same is true, a few months after my Dad died, "Mike and the Mechanics" came on TV, he explained he had written the song they were going to sing soon after his father died, and he proceeded to sing "The Living Years" He explained the troubled relationship he had with his own father, and the regret that he never got to make things right, and that his father never got to see his grandson. I got on well with my Dad, but I felt I was only just getting to know him properly, he knew he was ill, we didnt. It was strange how he began to open up in those months before he died. If any of you have a troubled relationship with family or friends, not spoken for years, end it now today, or at least try, or you could be like Mike "Wishing you could have told him (them) in the living years" If you know the song, and you have lost someone, you will know how easy the tears flow as you listen to this song. 15 years on I still miss my Dad. My dad knew he was ill but did nothing about it and died age 73, a shock, but he made his choice, Old age is unfair enough, but suffering from something like Alzheimers disease which in the end robs the sufferer of any self respect, but of course they do not know this, you feel it for them. As I did as I watched my Mother being slowly destroyed by this terrible illness, and it takes away your ability to grieve, by the time they die you are just pleased to see the end. If you have family or know someone who is beginning to suffer the affects of "The Big A" it is every bit as destructive as "C", Cancer. Enjoy them now, make their lives happy, give them your time, because unless you are very lucky, there will be little to enjoy in their future. Sorry to end on such a negative note, but if this disease affects your life then my thoughts are with you, I suppose I could say prayer, even though I am a non believer, maybe my prayer is more valid, you will know it is genuine, no middle man, and I have had my say in this list about War, but wouldnt it be wonderful if as much time, money, and effort were put into preserving the quality of life for all, or is that too much to ask ? Two old men sitting in deck chairs, one old man says "Nice out today isnt it ?" The other old man replies "Yeah, I think I,ll take mine out " Well it makes me laugh, Cheers Freddyb ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:20:57 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Newport JAZZ Festival vs. Newport FOLK Festival In a message dated 2/23/2003 3:04:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, tim_spong@hotmail.com writes: > don't think the specific reason has ever been > mentioned. Maybe nobody knows but Judy. Perhaps some emergent contingency > was to blame, or miscommunication, or, even though it strains credulity, > Judy actually, simply, forgot. I hope, 30-plus years on, JM has forgiven > JC. > Thanks for pointing me toward the threads archive! There are many uncharted components on the JMDL site! For the first time today, I took a peek at the digest archives to see what you all discuss (I'm Joni only)--yikes!!! I was surprised to discover many posts labeled NJC that, to me, had Joni content or at least what I considered to be Joni content. And the comfort food thread was a real kick. Perhaps when the impending war and political discussion dies down, I will switch my status. I researched the Joni/Judy Newport incident and found the people magazine article. I was incorrect about what Joni said about Judy. The author stated that Joni was uncharacteristically unkind about the latest crop of girl singer-songwriters, and I had erroneously remembered that comment as referential to Judy. About Judy, Joni was quoted as saying "I've known stories of greater generosity." Hmmm. I've always had a mental image of Joni at the curb with her bags, waiting for Judy to arrive. LOL Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:07:00 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Dar Williams, SJC Kate, this is the first Dar song I heard, too. A local public radio DJ played it on his weekly folk/bluegrass show and I stopped whatever it was I was doing and listened and was crying by the end of the song, "Yes, yes, I was a boy too!! " LOL . She played a house concert that week in Lawrence, KS and the host accurately predicted that soon Dar would be too big to play tiny shows like this one. That was almost 10 years ago. Yikes! Two years later I went to a songwriting workshop she taught in Lyons, CO. She spent a great deal of time talking about lyric writing - it's clearly important to her. So I asked her to talk about her choice of chord progressions, and the use of open tunings, her melody lines, etc. And she said, "Hmm, I don't know...I guess I listen to a lot of Joni Mitchell." And that was all she had to say about that! Jenny Kate Bennett wrote:>Dar Williams belongs to the Kate Bennett/Jewel school. Hopeful, positive, and sweet; first, last, and always.< dar is an amazing songwriter...i would not put jewel in the same category (or me, but thanks for including me in there somewhere) & so i must print the lyrics to the first dar song i ever heard: When I Was A Boy Dar Williams I won't forget when Peter Pan came to my house, took my hand I said I was a boy; I'm glad he didn't check. I learned to fly, I learned to fight I lived a whole life in one night We saved each other's lives out on the pirate's deck. And I remember that night When I'm leaving a late night with some friends And I hear somebody tell me it's not safe, someone should help me I need to find a nice man to walk me home. When I was a boy, I scared the pants off of my mom, Climbed what I could climb upon And I don't know how I survived, I guess I knew the tricks that all boys knew. And you can walk me home, but I was a boy, too. I was a kid that you would like, just a small boy on her bike Riding topless, yeah, I never cared who saw. My neighbor come outside to say, "Get your shirt," I said "No way, it's the last time I'm not breaking any law." And now I'm in a clothing store, and the sign says less is more More that's tight means more to see, more for them, not more for me That can't help me climb a tree in ten seconds flat When I was a boy, see that picture? That was me Grass-stained shirt and dusty knees And I know things have gotta change, They got pills to sell, they've got implants to put in, they've got implants to remove But I am not forgetting That I was a boy too And like the woods where I would creep, it's a secret I can keep Except when I'm tired, except when I'm being caught off guard I've had a lonesome awful day, the conversation finds its way To catching fire-flies out in the backyard. And I tell the man I'm with about the other life I lived And I say now you're top gun, I have lost and you have won And he says, "Oh no, no, can't you see When I was a girl, my mom and I we always talked And I picked flowers everywhere that I walked. And I could always cry, now even when I'm alone I seldom do And I have lost some kindness But I was a girl too. And you were just like me, and I was just like you. ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:54:33 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: The Covers Project -- attention Bob Muller! While doing a search on Cole Porter on the web, I came across this site "The Covers Project": http://www.coversproject.com/ So I did a search on "Joni Mitchell" and it came back with quite a list, but I'm sure it's nowhere near as extensive as Bob's list. They have lists of songs covered by the artist, as well as songs by the artist that others have covered. They also have "chains of covers" described as "a set of songs in which each song is a cover of a song by the band who covered the preceding song." The Joni chain is 119 songs. Crikey! This is way too anal-retentive for me (my head just about explodes even looking at this stuff) and I really think these people have far too much time on their hands, but as soon as I saw this, I thought of Bob, who couldn't possibly have too much time on his hands but still manages this Joni-covers project and makes it look easy. Those of you who enjoy that six-degrees thing and who play those pub quizzes would probably find some good info in there to fool a lotta people. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 20:13:05 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: The Covers Project -- attention Bob Muller! Hi Catherine, Most of the Joni covers that are listed there are songs I supplied them with. There's a couple of false entries, but it's a cool website and lots of fun. Bob NP: Marta Gomez, "Paula Ausente" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 20:19:18 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: GRAMMY AWARDS are on now, jc There are tons of Joni-related artists up for nominations. Someday Bryan Thomas will be nominated. "But until then until then... this is how you learn it." Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:34:55 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: GRAMMY AWARDS are on now, jc what a beginning ... Simon and Garfunkel performing Sounds of Silence... moving and most appropriate for these days. Norah Jones just won... woohooo she's got the same managers as our Joan. "Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama)" wrote:There are tons of Joni-related artists up for nominations. Someday Bryan Thomas will be nominated. "But until then until then... this is how you learn it." Lama You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 20:42:22 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: GRAMMY AWARDS are on now, jc In a message dated 2/23/03 8:36:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, magsnbrei@yahoo.com writes: > what a beginning ... Simon and Garfunkel performing Sounds of Silence... > moving and most appropriate for these days. > Norah Jones just won... woohooo > and so did No Doubt.......one of the few CD's I bought last year that I love. I'm so excited that Norah won too! She's kicking off her tour in Ft. Myers of all places on June 6th in a nice 1800 capacity venue. Unfortunately, I won't be here then. .......and yes, Lama, I hope to see Bryan Thomas up on that stage someday soon. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 20:44:17 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: comments on my perfect box set In a message dated 2/23/2003 2:10:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, walterphil@excite.com writes: > i'm also a huge pet clark fan. She's OK by me...she certainly had that span of time when she ALWAYS had a hit song on the radio. Also, besides her version of "For Free", one of her TV specials featured Harry Belafonte singing BSN. This was a very controversial special as Pet & Harry did a number holding hands, not something that sat well with folks in the late 60's. Hell, even my Mom had a crush on Harry! > > yes chalk mark may be cosidered by some to be her worst---but it aint---dog > eat dog is--by a landslide!!! Well, I'm not a fan of either one, mostly due to the production. I think in a side by side comparison, DED has the stronger songs. I too love the Cool Water duet, the best of the duet lot on CMIARS. There are a couple of songs on both of these projects that have potential...I think Joni missed the boat by entirely skipping over them when selecting tracks for T'log. Like you say, Impossible Dreamer is a beautiful song and would sound better in a less synthetic environment. Bob NP: Vicki Randle, "Don't Let Me Fall" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:45:33 -0500 (EST) From: "walterphil" Subject: she said jazz but i think she meant folk I went to the newport jazz festival. Judy collins called me up. She was supposed to take me. Al Kooper had put us in touch and we were supposed to meet and go. Well, Judy stood me up, and she was my hero. It was kind of heartbreaking, I waited and waited and waited and she never came to pick me up to take me to Newport. A day went by and i got a phone call from her and she sounded kind of sheepish. She said somebody had sung one of my songs in a workshop. It was a terrible rendition, she said, but people went crazy. Judy really felt i should be at Newport, so she gave me instructions on how to get there. When I played there, I got that large roar and it made me incredibly nervous. from off the record by joe smith i have another joni reference ill type for you later from judys book xxx wf The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:27:24 -0500 From: Subject: T'LOG PROLOGUE It's true, isn't it, that T'LOG doesn't stand up to the test of time? There's a lot on it I can't bear to listen to -- even some tracks I additionally liked. Somehow, the arrangements GRATE. Still, there are tracks I can't do without: trouble child god must be a boogie man refuge of the roads hejira cherokee louise the dawntreader the last time I saw richard Still, 7 out of 22...IS bad. Oh well, No one is perfect, right? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:49:07 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: The State of the List Joniphiles - Can we talk? Does the JMDL seem to have taken on a different flavor lately? Does it seem to have lost some of its sense of community? Does anyone else feel this way? I find myself more and more simply skimming through posts rather than reading them. That makes me sad. It just feels like there's something missing. Maybe it's the content of late. I don't particularly care for the political threads which seem to be dominating in the last few months (I know others feel differently). Given that, I have even less of a liking for the thought of any kind of moderation. What can be done? I am really interested in a frank, civilized discussion on the state of the list. Along with a list of grievances, I'd also appreciate some real suggestions on how to actively improve the JMDL. Through the years, I've heard a lot of people say that this list is one of the best on the Internet. I feel like it's in danger of losing that distinction. Please voice your opinion and help me put this list back on top. Thanks in advance, Les ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:10:20 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: The State of the List I know what you mean and I too feel this lack of spark lately - and this is coming from a "newbie" who only joined last fall. I can't really speak for how it used to be, years ago, but I do detect a disintegration of sorts regarding content, even since I joined. One theory is that Joni's latest album does not foster the same kind of discussion that an album of all new material would. There is only so much one can say about an album of songs that have been previously recorded and released by the same artist. Reaction to Travelogue was swift and categorical and that could account for a lack of interest in discussing this project beyond initial reactions. There is no tour in the works, no significant interviews to analyze, no new material of any sort, aside from the new style of the songs. Another theory is that the political climate on the planet Earth is very turbulent at the moment and perhaps cannot be denied or overlooked any longer. With a forum like this where mostly-intelligent people can express an opinion it's easy to want to comment on such significant matters, even though I agree that political discussions have no place here. Still, the urge is there - in the midst of a storm there is so much to say. Discussing an album may seem trivial in the bigger global picture to some. Having said that, there is a time and place for political discussions and this list is not the place. I have no constructive ideas about how to resolve this problem because I'm not really sure what the problem is, although I do detect its presence. Thanks for raising the issue. Maybe we'll come up a solution in due time. - -Andrew - -- Les Irvin wrote: > Joniphiles - > > Can we talk? Does the JMDL seem to have taken on a > different flavor > lately? Does it seem to have lost some of its sense > of community? Does > anyone else feel this way? I find myself more and > more simply skimming > through posts rather than reading them. That makes > me sad. > > It just feels like there's something missing. Maybe > it's the content of > late. I don't particularly care for the political > threads which seem to be > dominating in the last few months (I know others > feel differently). Given > that, I have even less of a liking for the thought > of any kind of moderation. > > What can be done? I am really interested in a > frank, civilized discussion > on the state of the list. Along with a list of > grievances, I'd also > appreciate some real suggestions on how to actively > improve the JMDL. > > Through the years, I've heard a lot of people say > that this list is one of > the best on the Internet. I feel like it's in > danger of losing that > distinction. > > Please voice your opinion and help me put this list > back on top. > > Thanks in advance, > Les Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:50:50 -0700 From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: Joni's guitars Just thought I would mention that Joni's guitar on ebay (the sunburst one) sold for $4750 (the reserve price was only $4000). I'll be monitoring the bids on the blond one. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:27:50 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: The State of the List Les, I have to chime in here. I have hardly been reading my JMDL mail for the past 2 months. What I feel we have lost here is our *community*, which I have highly valued. Yes, I think we have something very special here. In the past, this has been a place of caring, and of people who, through a love of the same music, bonded in a caring and insightful way, and topics would come and go as they would in a party or a morning coffee hour. I think one of the reasons we have lost the community feeling is that we seem to be stuck on one topic, and it seems to be a very heated one. I fear if we continue to discuss one topic only, it will become tedious and one by one, our community will become unraveled, one person at a time. I believe we all take on the energy of what is happening in the world. I believe the JMDL microcosm is a mirror of all that we see falling apart around us. I don't want to see this list moderated, but if we all took responsibility to move on and *become* the peace and bright light that we would like to see in the world, we can ALL make a difference here. Anyone game for bringing the energy of *community* back to the JMDL? Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:50:29 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: The State of the List Les Irvin writes: > What can be done? I am really interested in a frank, civilized discussion > on the state of the list. Along with a list of grievances, I'd also > appreciate some real suggestions on how to actively improve the JMDL. A very honest assessment, Les. I too heavily skim or delete or filter the majority of JMDL posts and as the years go by I find myself reading the list less and less. The "community" you ask about has fractured. In my opinion, various camps have pitched tents here and are being territorial. Those who are identified as being not of the tribe are given the bum's rush or worse; personal attacks have become all too common. I don't know how to "improve" it, other than to reprimand or uns*bscribe people who are abusive to others. I think that imposing a limit on the number of posts one is allowed to make on a daily basis would be a start. When someone posts incessantly on controversial topics it only serves to force the dissenters to reply in kind, creating a vicious circle. When someone posts incessantly on non-controversial topics it forces some to dismiss the posts as excessive chattiness...again speaking for myself I want to discuss "the life and times of Joni Mitchell," not what somebody's significant other had for breakfast that day or what percentage of JMDLers are circumcised. I'd like you to consider asking JMDLers to post no more than, say, four times a day. If enforced, this policy would greatly reduce the noise and may also serve to make posters more carefully consider what they are writing...instead of idle chatter perhaps we might enjoy a bit more thoughtful discourse. And since you asked for frankness, I will state that while I am generally in favor of "hands-off" type management styles, I don't think a contemporary internet list with lots of passionate and diverse members can ideally function without some leadership. I'm not calling for moderation, rather a more active, vocal, and decisive list owner, one who will quickly jump in when the shit starts flying, ready to scold, threaten, or banish when necessary. Necessary to keep the topics in the ballpark, necessary to keep the peace, necessary to guide and shape "one of the best lists on the internet." Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 02:04:26 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: February 24 On February 24 the following items were published: 1977: "Furry Lewis is Furious at Joni" - Rolling Stone (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=107 1991: "Joni Mitchell" - Los Angeles Times (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=162 2002: "2002 Lifetime Achievement Award Recipient - Joni Mitchell" - Grammy Magazine (Appreciation) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=750 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:24:45 +0100 From: "Moni Kellermann" Subject: Re: New Joni Picture - ----- Original Message ----- From: > You can see this photo at: > http://www.williamclaxton.com/movie.html > in the 'Recent Work' gallery under > Portfolio. Click on the small picture of Joni > to enlarge it. (Bottom Left) You can directly access the picture at http://www.williamclaxton.com/rec/13.swf When viewed in a browser window, the stupid Flash file is enlarged but if you download it and then open it separately, it will have the correct size. moni ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:41:51 +0100 From: "Moni Kellermann" Subject: Re: joni on CBC - ----- Original Message ----- From: > do you know whether Canada and UK are the > same in terms of home video tapes? The TAPES are the same = VHS tapes. What you record on them is different. US/Canada = NTSC format UK = PAL format Most modern European vcrs can play back NTSC tapes. The NTSC format is converted into a "pseudo-PAL" format (to cheat the tv), so it can be viewed on a standard PAL tv. You CANNOT copy NTSC tapes with 2 PAL VCRs. To copy a NTSC tape, you need 2 NTSC vcrs. So, if you send someone a NTSC tape, depending on the state of the art of the vcr, it can be viewed on a PAL vcr/tv system. moni ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:42:40 +0100 From: "Moni Kellermann" Subject: Re: comments on my perfect box set - Petula Clark > In a message dated 2/23/2003 2:10:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, > walterphil@excite.com writes: > > > i'm also a huge pet clark fan. I remember once taking photographs of Ms.Clark for a daily newspaper (late 80's). I mentioned Joni Mitchell to her and she said that she was a huge fan, too. Then, while walking with me down the hotel aisle, she started to sing "Carey" - the whole song with complete lyrics and in perfect style. moni ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #62 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)