From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #41 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, February 4 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 041 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) [Sarah Gibb ] Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) ["kakki" ] TIPPY WALKER/joni look-alike ["Wally Kairuz" ] Joni and the birth and adoption of her child [Aerchak@aol.com] Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) [Sarah ] joni mitchell Taming the Tiger poster [Aerchak@aol.com] Re: new joni & vinyl (a little JC) ["Lori Fye" ] Let her speak [Mags N Brei ] Re: joni mitchell Taming the Tiger poster ["Christopher Treacy" ] Joni on vinyl - amen! [Little Bird ] Re: Freds poem and top ten artists SJC (of course) ["Stephen Toogood" ] RE: joni is a sheep (or ram)! ["Heather" ] Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #86 Joni and nuns [Kardinel@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #86 a further note [Kardinel@aol.com] my new 8 FREE music groups at yahoo ["walterphil" ] Re: joni mitchell Taming the Tiger poster [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni's album sales [Dan Olson ] Re: joni mitchell Taming the Tiger poster [Randy Remote ] Photos [Thom Byrd ] Re: Joni in Record Collector, 100% JC ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Today in History: February 4 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: February 4 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 02:03:36 -0700 From: Sarah Gibb Subject: Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) Kakki, as Lori wrote elsewhere, Joni "lived, artistically, in a Magdalene Laundry of her own making, supervised by her mother's morality." I think that psychological point is the important one here. The article you sent said that the Catholic hospital bound her breasts so she couldn't produce any milk! And it doesn't say that the adoption agency wasn't Catholic. If the hospital was, the agency is likely to have been, although I don't know that for a fact. My idea about self-hatred, or more accurately lack of self-definition, comes from her early lyrics, and I wondered whether her exposure to the Catholic hospital when she had polio may have contributed to that, although I don't know how long she was in hospital for then. Whatever caused it, I hear in her lyrics that she didn't think much of herself. Put that on top of the horrible social pressures, and there was little hope she'd feel able to keep the baby. Sarah At 11:14 PM -0800 02/02/2003, kakki wrote: >You are right - I thought she had been in awhile because she had commented >on how the unwed mothers were treated and it sounded like she was in for a >time. She did stay in a Catholic charity hospital almost two weeks as a >result of complications. She has spoken about this in a few articles - the >one I recalled is from the L.A. Times here >http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=83 In this article, she also says >that it was the adoption agency, and not the nuns who told her to give the >back up quickly so it would be more "adoptable." > > Also, Joni was not >raised a Catholic, so the premise that she may have had some kind of a >lifelong sense of shame and self-loathing from them doesn't add up to me. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 23:54:40 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) Sarah wrote: > Kakki, as Lori wrote elsewhere, Joni "lived, artistically, in a > Magdalene Laundry of her own making, supervised by her mother's > morality." I think that psychological point is the important one > here. I missed Lori's comment but I think there is a lot of insight in it. Although her mother and father both encouraged her creativity, her mother was stuck in the old rules and ways, while her father seemed more liberal and openminded. I just don't see Catholicism as being the root of all social evils of the time. I recall most all religions being pretty moralistic during that era. Many were much more moralistic, strict, punitive and unforgiving than the Catholics in my experience. > And it doesn't say that the adoption agency wasn't Catholic. If the hospital was, the agency > is likely to have been, although I don't know that for a fact. I'm pretty sure it was a state-run agency based on other interviews she has given. She kept the baby at times and then placed her in foster homes on and off. She was trying to keep her. She did not agree to give her up for adoption until eight months later. >My idea about self-hatred, or more accurately lack of self-definition, > comes from her early lyrics, and I wondered whether her exposure to > the Catholic hospital when she had polio may have contributed to > that, although I don't know how long she was in hospital for then. I think she was in the hospital with polio for many months. Still, she seemed to me to have a well-developed sense of self prior to the time. Based on her stories of childhood, she was already showing an independent creative streak and was already smoking cigarettes at age 8. She also in a way stood up to her caregivers at the hospital by insisting that she could walk and by making them take her outside so she could prove it to them. She proved it and was discharged. > Whatever caused it, I hear in her lyrics that she didn't think much > of herself. Put that on top of the horrible social pressures, and > there was little hope she'd feel able to keep the baby. That's interesting - I never thought of her not thinking much of herself. I thought of her as vulnerable and sensitive and questioning, but interpreted that as typical of a highly creative person. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 05:23:18 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: TIPPY WALKER/joni look-alike i just finished watching my worn and very valuable copy of ''jennifer on my mind'', a 1971 movie with michael brandon and tippy walker. am i the only person in the world that's seen this movie? anyway, i had never realized how exactly like joni in her youth (walker was 25 at that time) tippy walker looks. does anybody know who i'm talking about? am i the only tippy walker fan on earth? i've been searching for hours for any information on walker on the net. i found out that now she is ''an artist and writer who has lived in New Haven, Connecticut, USA, since 1984'' and that she ''owns and operates a storefront art gallery, "Out of the Blue", near the Yale University campus''. she is 56 now. i wonder if she still looks so much like joni. i would give anything to meet tippy walker. i have been madly in love with her since i was 10 years old. anybody in yale campus area that might drop by the gallery? wallyK, sleepless and obsessed ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 06:40:25 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Joni and the birth and adoption of her child The topic of Joni's pregnancy and subseguent birth and adoption of the baby is fully discussed in the "Shadows and Light" book by Karen O'Brien, as well as the biological father's and Chuck Mitchell's roles. Also Joni's reunion with Lilauren. I wholly suggest reading this book. It is frequently available on ebay. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 05:54:28 -0700 From: Sarah Subject: Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) Kakki, I was going to send some lines from songs that suggest to me this - what I call - lack of self-definition, but to be honest, I feel a bit icky about discussing on the internet someone's decision to have her child adopted. It was private, and none of my business. So I'm not going to say any more about it, but maybe I can send you these lines another time, in another context, as that discussion has literary merit, and might offer some insight into her poetry. Sarah At 11:54 PM -0800 02/02/2003, kakki wrote: >I never thought of her not thinking much of herself. I thought of >her as vulnerable and sensitive and questioning, but interpreted >that as typical of a highly creative person. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 07:21:51 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: joni mitchell Taming the Tiger poster For Fauncha, A TTT poster just came on ebay. it's only a 12" by 12" and is card board. Mine is 18" by 22" and paper, but wanted to let you know. Narrow search to joni mitchell memorabilia. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 05:29:06 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: new joni & vinyl (a little JC) Walt wrote, of the vinyl issue: > doesnt anyone miss the city side/sea side chapters of song to a > seagull? doesnt anyone think its exciting to end a side with hejira > and start another with sharon? these subtlties are totally lost now > with cds. I agree, Walt. What about the four sides of DJRD? There were "stories" to be told with vinyl albums, and the sides were the chapters. The moods changed from side 1 to side 2, etc. Look at "Clouds": on side 1 we have "I Don't Know Where I Stand," but by side 2 it's "I Think I Understand." Okay, I'm simplifying, but yes, I really do miss the chapter effect. > and while i don't agree that ticks and pops add much Actually, I sort of like those ticks and pops, if only for the nostalgia. I don't often play my vinyl albums, but I enjoy the entire process when I do: removing the album, tilting (and flipping and tilting) it to check condition, placing it on the turntable, cleaning it, setting the needle up (fiddling with the turntable speed on those units with the strobe) ... Those days are gone, though (like the days of sifting seeds from a new bag). > at about the freakin art of the jackets? That was my initial complaint when cds first came about. I really, really miss that. I can't imagine kids displaying cd booklets on their walls the way many of us displayed album covers. And you don't walk into your friend's apartment now and see cds leaning against a crate. If you did, you'd barely notice them. I enjoy cds for their convenience, but (for me) it's simply not as exciting to buy and open and play a new cd as it was to do those things with a new LP. Things are just too pristine these days. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 08:35:21 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: new joni & vinyl In a message dated 2/2/2003 11:30:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, walterphil@excite.com writes: > doesnt anyone think its exciting to end a side with hejira > and start another with sharon? > these subtlties are totally lost now with cds. Just curious Walt...why is that "exciting" to you? While Hejira is darn near flawless, I've always felt that Refuge & the title song should have been swapped, with Hejira being the album closer. Anyway, I actually prefer taking the whole thing in one session as opposed to getting up & flipping over an LP and ruining the mood. You do make a good point though about STAS (which I never owned on LP). It does alter the effect to combine the 2 scenes on one side. Bob NP: EmmyLou Harris, "Michaelangelo" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:36:42 -0500 (EST) From: "walterphil" Subject: more joni vinyl does anyone have the quad version of court and spark? i do-haven't listened to it in a while but it seems to be differently remixed if not downright different versions i know for intance peoples parties has a definate ending and does not blend into same situation (are these not 2 of the best joni songs EVER, or what?) also notice how the side had a whistful ending then side 2 starts up with a different mood the wonderful and jaunty car on a hill. my original version of ladies and blue have wonderful matte finishes on the covers so much more rich and substantial than those cd booklets xxx valty The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 07:44:16 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Let her speak listen to what Joni has to say about the pressure to surrender her child to adoption. the reality was that Joni had no choice. "I conceived in art college at the age of 20, near the end of term," says Mitchell, 53. "The main thing at the time was to conceal it. The scandal was so intense. A daughter could do nothing more disgraceful. It ruined you in a social sense. You have no idea what the stigma was. It was like you murdered somebody." please read the entire article, it reveals so much. http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=83 You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:08:42 -0500 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: Re: joni mitchell Taming the Tiger poster As an avid collector of paper goods, especially all things Joni, I have to warn - THIS IS A FLAT. I'm very tired of people attempting to sell flats on ebay as posters (they do it ALL the time and it's SO misleading!). I'm not sure why ebay lets it go on; Lord knows they've gotten persnikety with me about things of lesser importance. Anyway, just a word for the wise. - -Chris NP: Carole King - Avenue P - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 7:21 AM Subject: joni mitchell Taming the Tiger poster > For Fauncha, > > A TTT poster just came on ebay. it's only a 12" by 12" and is card board. > Mine is 18" by 22" and paper, but wanted to let you know. Narrow search to > joni mitchell memorabilia. > > Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:28:15 EST From: Freddyb4@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #85 Fred AGAIN ---- if I get too tiresome, just tell me... How do you keep up with these postings and who said what???? But!!!! already, anyone who bothers to look will see names of artists we share with many others, but also just how different we can be, some names that come up I have never heard of, or at least I know nothing of their work, I suppose some just are never able to cross the Atlantic and survive ( I'll try and put together a list once the input stops) Since I started this nonsense I have other names that I could add, Clifford T Ward who sadly died last year of MS, his "Home Thoughts" was right up there in the poll for our favourite pop song, and I always liked Gordon Lightfoot, Paul Simon. Just incase you feel I'm a hopeless romantic, I do like some heavier stuff, but not heavy metal. Tell me when people talk of influences, the Beatles, Beach boys, Stones, there are all these names that get mentioned, but nobody seems to want to give "Creedence Clearwater" any credit, I have a double album and there is not a weak track, and the intro to "Up around the bend" makes my hair stand on end, or it would if I had any, and their version of "Heard it through the Grape vine" is a classic. I enjoyed the Eagles come back, I would love to hear Creedence again. Some brief replies, Mark, my Danish girlfriend was special, and we are still the best of friends, she worked for the Danish Royal family so the room full of candle light was in the "Sorrow Free Palace" in Copenhagen, and what was that about Joely Richardson and Liam Neeson, Joely is a lovely girl, and I'm about the same size as Liam, and probably as tall as well. I'll get Joely to compare ! (I can dream can't I ) The BBC videos, you've seen them in the States, I asked the BBC to screen them again, maybe invite the Artists back, but nothing, why do I pay my license fee?? Catherine, what is it that stops women wanting to be refered to as female, you could tell how innocent my statement is, so why should it offend, I have come across this when some film gal took offence at being called an actress, and insisted on being refered to as an actor, I knew a male nurse who's occupation was a "Midwife" would he have got anywhere if he demanded that he should be called a "Midhusband" lol What have I started, will it all end in tears??? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:27:13 +0000 From: John Sprackland Subject: CD v Vinyl I have to add my vote to the 'Joni-on-vinyl' camp - it's the whole sensual experience of LPs that I could never give up. Even putting the infinitely superior packaging to one side for a moment, just consider the vinyl - it has that 'weight' and substance, it has that gloss (don't you love that shiny vinyl that has that sort of petrol-spill rainbow sheen...), it even has a distintive smell to it - I could recognise a lot of my records blindfold from the smell alone. (I once had an ELP triple album; the music was terrible but it smelled great!). Then there's the whole experience of sliding the record out of the liner - sorry, we're getting into fetish territory here but does no one else find that sensation at least mildly erotic! I own all Joni on vinyl up to Chalk Mark (I maddeningly jealous now of those who have NRH on vinyl) and I always turn to the vinyl out of preference (though I admit STAS on vinyl is a sonic disaster and I will consider getting a CD copy to listen to while I fondle the LP...). Double albums are best of all - I so agree with Walt about the loss of the side one/two structure of the move from LP to CD; a whole artform has been lost - and when you've got side 3 & 4 as well, that's heightened. For that reason (plus weight, gloss & smell), I think Shadows & Light is the Joni-vinyl experience par excellence (hell, the CD version even has tracks missing). But the idea of 'Blue' not being at the end of side one, but instead stuck in the middle of a CD - it doesn't bear thinking about! Infact, here's a game for those of you with programmable CD (ok, CD wins hands down on some scores), how about reordering the Blue album for straight thru CD play - I'm sure the old LP ordering can't be right for CD. (I'm gonna play too... if I can manage it without scratching my precious vinyl with all that lifting on and off...) John - -- John Sprackland ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:50:34 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Joni on vinyl - amen! Well, I decided to get the vinyl copy of The Hissing of Summer Lawns, after all. You can never have too much Joni now can you! I loved the observations people made about the "tangibility" of LPs - the larger photo, the glossy album, the substancial weight and size of the whole package. As a teenager I had six of my favourite LP jackets up on the wall, arranged in a large square over my stereo. If you can guess the six albums you win a million dollars. Anyway, I haven't played, or even opened, the record yet. But I'm glad I bought it! I'm a secret record-collecting madman and just came out of the closet as such, I suppose. - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:56:40 -0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: Freds poem and top ten artists SJC (of course) Verry touching poem Fred. Welcome to the list. My top ten in some kind of order... Joni (of course) Tori Amos Laura Nyro Bob Dylan Carole King Thea Gilmore Janis Ian Gemma Hayes Turin Brakes Leonard Cohen I'm sure this will alter a bit over the years but I know who will always be # 1. I shamefuly confess that the first album I bought was by PJ & Duncan (now Ant & Dec). LOL. For people not in the UK it was truly awful cheesy teenage pop. Wow how things change. Stephen Toogood NP: Wednesday by Tori "The snow falls like bolts of lace" - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 9:52 PM Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #83 " Thanks " > I didn't expect to be welcomed by people into this group, and I'm pleased to > find that so many are like me, "As daft as a brush," I mean that in the > nicest possible way of course. Music is a personal thing, and all of us have > liked someone who no-one else seems to like, and maybe Joni and her music is > just too deep, for people with a "Wam bam thank you mam" approach to lyrics, > and so they just don't try, for me her music reaches inside, and it is hard > to understand why some people can't relate to it, yet I don't like the music > of Van Morrison, yet so many people do. > SO!!!! all of you, it's admit it time, lets see how diverse our tastes are, > list 10 artists/groups you like, but at the end of the list you must include > that secret that you meant to take to the grave, you know, you love The Bay > City Rollers!!! > My list > Joni Mitchell - especially her earlier work Cat Stevens - James Taylor - > Labi Siffri - Beatles - Cheryl Crow - Erasure - Squeese > Doris Day - Nat King Cole, I don't care what anyone says, nobody can sing > that well. and Doris is a dream, Oh yes she is ! > I didn't give this much thought, I could have included Kathleen Farrier, she > died in the 50's, and a favourite song on the radio when I was a kid was > "Blow the wind Southerly" and if that womans voice doesn't move you, you're > not human. > > The Shuttle disaster means somebody will be missing someone, this is > something I wrote on the evening of September 11th, had I lost my life so > unexpectedly, I thought about all those thing that are left unsaid, and > wondered if it were possible, what I would want to say to my family. Bye > for now Fred > > "REMEMBER ME" > > > CLOSE YOUR EYES, CAN YOU HERE ME? IbVE SOMETHING TO SAY > PLEASE BE STRONG, HELP EACH OTHER SURVIVE, > THINK OF ME, EVEN TALK TO ME, IbM WITH YOU EACH DAY, > NOW YOUR MEMORIES WILL KEEP ME ALIVE. > > IbM SORRY IbM NOT THERE, TO PROVE THAT I CARE, > AND IbM SORRY FOR ANY TEARS I MADE YOU CRY, > IF I EVER TOOK YOU FOR GRANTED, THEN THAT WAS UNFAIR, > PLEASE FORGIVE ME, OR AT LEAST, WILL YOU TRY. > > REMEMBER EACH DAY, AS YOUR SUN GOES AWAY, > YOUR NIGHTS ARE NOT AS DARK AS THEY SEEM, > IbM THE SHADOWS THAT TOUCH YOU AND KISS YOU GOOD NIGHT, > IbLL KEEP YOU WARM AND SAFE IN YOUR DREAMS. > > I WISH I COULD HUG YOU, HOLD YOU SO TIGHT, > AND CHASE AWAY ALL YOUR FEARS, > I JUST WISH I COULD SOOTHE AWAY ALL YOUR PAIN, > AND KISS AWAY ALL YOUR TEARS. > > NOW PLEASE REMEMBER MY GRIN, AND THE WAY I WALKED IN, > MY HELLO, MY EXCUSES, MY GOODBYE, > AND REMEMBER MY DARES, OR JUST THE SCENT OF MY HAIR, > AND ALL OUR DREAMS, THAT WERE "PIE IN THE SKY." > > AND REMEMBER MY LIFE, AND ALL THOSE SONGS THAT I LIKED, > OR THE MAD WAY I RAN UP THE STAIRS. > WHEN YOU LEFT ME ALONE, I ALWAYS WISHED YOU WOULD PHONE, I ALWAYS MISSED YOU > WHEN YOU WERENbT THERE. > > DRAW STRENGTH FROM ME NOW, MAKE ME PROUD, HOW YOUbLL GROW, > RISE ABOVE, SPREAD YOUR WINGS, BE SO FREE, > AND MAY PEACE RULE YOUR LIFE, FILLED WITH LAUGHTER AND LOVE, > AND FROM TIME TO TIME, THINK OF ME > AND WHEN YOU DO, REMEMBER HOW I LOVED YOU. > I KNOW HOW MUCH YOU LOVED ME. > > FRED BEACH SEPT 11TH 2001 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:58:10 -0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: Joni's album sales I wouldn't know myself but I'm sure there must be a way of finding out that stuff. I read somewhere that STAS went gold after a while even though it didn't debut so well. Also I get a feeling that BLUE has sold the most copies over all. Stephen Toogood NP: Carbon by Tori "The snow falls like bolts of lace" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Olson" To: Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 12:16 AM Subject: Re: Joni in Record Collector > I compiled some data found at http://www.robotwisdom.com/jorn/joni.html > Peak = peak position, weeks = number of weeks on chart (top 200?) > > STASG: Peak: #189, weeks: 9 > Clouds: Peak: #31, weeks: 36 > LOTC: Peak: #27, weeks: 33 > Blue: Peak: #15, weeks: 28 > FTR: Peak: #11, weeks: 28 > CAS: Peak: #2 (4 weeks), weeks: 64 > MOA: Peak: #2 (1 week), weeks: 22 > THOSL: Peak: #4, weeks: 17 > Hejira: Peak: #13, weeks: 18 > DJRD: Peak: #25, weeks: 13 > Mingus: Peak: #17, weeks: 18 > SandL: Peak: #38, weeks: 16 > WTRF: Peak: #25, weeks: 21 > DED: Peak: #63, weeks: 19 > CMIARS: Peak: #45, weeks: 16 > NRH: Peak: #41, weeks: 14 > TI: Peak: #47, weeks: 10 > > Of course, what I really want to know is how many total sales have there > been to date for each album? Anyone know where one could get that info? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:51:08 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: joni is a sheep (or ram)! Wally wrote: "this is joni's year, since she'll be turning 60 in november. as 60 is a multiple of 12, then joni was born in the year of the sheep. quite a strange combination. a scorpion and a sheep. the secrets of death and sex mixed with the frugality and the sentimentalism of the sheep. but then who can figure joni out?" I'm a Virgo and born in the Chinese lunar year of the sheep ... a virgin and a sheep. Can it get anymore boring than that?? Please send me some insight oh wise, wonderful Wally :-) Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Wally Kairuz Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 7:49 PM To: _JMDL Subject: joni is a sheep (or ram)! happy chinese new year everyone!!!!! i know how to say it in chinese but i don't how to write it, so just imagine me in my best madam sin clothes saying it in perfect mandarin. this is the year of the water sheep (or ram, as it is also called) it's 4071 in the chinese lunar calendar. 2002 was the year of the horse, whose main elements were fire and water, signifying great potential for conflict and unrest. this year's sheep element are water and earth, also conflicting but less destructive. we hope we hope we hope... this is joni's year, since she'll be turning 60 in november. as 60 is a multiple of 12, then joni was born in the year of the sheep. quite a strange combination. a scorpion and a sheep. the secrets of death and sex mixed with the frugality and the sentimentalism of the sheep. but then who can figure joni out? to all of you sheep (or rams) on the list, this is your time in the limelight in the 12-year cycle. be prosperous and happy. don't be too cruel to poor little rats like me! i promise i won't steal your lovers away from you and i won't get to the bargain basements before you! (what liars rats are!) in any case, lots of red envelopes with money for everybody! wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:17:05 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) >>My idea about self-hatred, or more accurately lack of self-definition, comes from her early lyrics<< this is a very interesting thought sarah! (although, i'd say lack of self-defination is quite different from self-hatred)...it does not suprise me that you find that element in her early lyrics although i never looked at it from that perspective before... search for self is such a huge motivation in & product of the creative process & with someone like joni who is/was so willing to go so very deep & to be so brutally honest & then express herself discoveries so eloquently, it is understandable that so many, in their own struggle to understand themselves in relation to others & their world, would find solace in her songs... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:42:17 -0600 From: Subject: [none] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:52:34 EST From: Kardinel@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #86 Joni and nuns I think you are all reading too much into Joni and the nuns. I wish I had only two encounters with them. I went to Catholic school and later to a boarding school run by them. In fact, I now work in the same building that once was my grade school. I think Joni was afraid of her mother more than anything else. I had a child alone myself and even though I was in my early 30's I left Maine and lived in another state for several years to get away from the judgmental views. I can't imagine being about 20 in the same situation. Oh, as far as Joni feeling bad about herself. Like all of us she probably feels it but I don't think you could hate yourself and accomplish what she has. Maureen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:54:40 EST From: Kardinel@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #86 a further note What I wrote about having a baby alone happened to me in the 80's but I remember how girls like Joni were treated in the 60's and it wasn't pretty. Maureen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:07:43 -0500 (EST) From: "walterphil" Subject: my new 8 FREE music groups at yahoo hey guys-forgive the intrusion but i just wanted to let you know that i started 8 new music groups-and theyre all free of course-heres the links (im sure you are happy with this group but you may want to join some of my others) judy collins fan club http://groups.yahoo.com/group/judycollinsfanclub/ she once had it-and guess what-she still does! laura nyro fans http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lauranyrofans/?yguid=91516277 boy could she surrey fifth dimension fans http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fifthdimensionfans/?yguid=91516277 where we all discovered laura and jimmy web et. al. jo stafford http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jostafford/ the smoothest and most oerfect pitch of any singer sang in the pied pipers with sinatra-hugely popular on her own spanky and our gang http://groups.yahoo.com/group/spankyandourgang/ all but forgotten 60s vocal group (like to get to know you) rosemary clooney fan club http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rosemaryclooneyfanclub/?yguid=91516277 recently deceased and quite simply the best songstress ever eydie gorme http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eydiegorme/?yguid=91516277 strongest voice in the world sergio mendes & brasil 66 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/brasil66/ the swinginist bossa nova group from the 60s (mais que nada was featured in the austin powers movie) come in have a look around ---im gonna be posting tons of pix and downloads as always -im open to suggestions......... drop me a line walterphil@excite.com or walterphil@yahoo.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:13:06 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: joni mitchell Taming the Tiger poster --- Christopher Treacy wrote: > As an avid collector of paper goods, especially all > things Joni, I have to > warn - THIS IS A FLAT. I'm very tired of people > attempting to sell flats on > ebay as posters (they do it ALL the time and it's SO > misleading!). What is a flat? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:25:23 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #85 --- Freddyb4@aol.com wrote: > > Catherine, what is it that stops women wanting to be > refered to as female, > you could tell how innocent my statement is, so why > should it offend, I have > come across this when some film gal took offence at > being called an actress, > and insisted on being refered to as an actor, I knew > a male nurse who's > occupation was a "Midwife" would he have got > anywhere if he demanded that he > should be called a "Midhusband" lol Hey, it ain't me, Fred - Joni's constantly complaining about being called the best *female* or *woman* singer/ songwriter/ whatever. I think when it comes to talent, a person's sex shouldn't make any difference. I have a hard time with the actor/actress thing too - I'm too used to saying actress when it's a woman. Alhough men and women are both singers, not singers and singesses. We're awfully inconsistent about that. You're probably kidding about the midwife thing, but it's hard to tell - the word comes from Old English and has to do with the person being *with* (mid, sort of like the German "mit") the "wife", which is the woman giving birth. So a male midwife would still be a midwife, strange though that sounds. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 19:53:19 -0700 From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: Joni's album sales You raise a very good point about STAS, and the longevity of album sales. I'll bet Joni has sold large numbers of her earlier stuff on CD (some to people who already had the vinyl, some who didn't). It would be fascinating to know in general all the information about her album sales (the rates at which they've sold, the breakdown of total CD's vs. LP's of the same album); I'd like to see graphs of each album's instantaneous sales between its release date and the present. Is it public information? Do labels protect this information? Do they lie about sales (to avoid paying royalties)? If anyone can direct me to this information, I could compile it all and publish it on the web somewhere. At 09:58 PM 2/3/2003 +0000, you wrote: >I wouldn't know myself but I'm sure there must be a way of finding out that >stuff. I read somewhere that STAS went gold after a while even though it >didn't debut so well. >Also I get a feeling that BLUE has sold the most copies over all. > >Stephen Toogood > > > > I compiled some data found at http://www.robotwisdom.com/jorn/joni.html > > Peak = peak position, weeks = number of weeks on chart (top 200?) > > > > STASG: Peak: #189, weeks: 9 > > Clouds: Peak: #31, weeks: 36 > > LOTC: Peak: #27, weeks: 33 > > Blue: Peak: #15, weeks: 28 > > FTR: Peak: #11, weeks: 28 > > CAS: Peak: #2 (4 weeks), weeks: 64 > > MOA: Peak: #2 (1 week), weeks: 22 > > THOSL: Peak: #4, weeks: 17 > > Hejira: Peak: #13, weeks: 18 > > DJRD: Peak: #25, weeks: 13 > > Mingus: Peak: #17, weeks: 18 > > SandL: Peak: #38, weeks: 16 > > WTRF: Peak: #25, weeks: 21 > > DED: Peak: #63, weeks: 19 > > CMIARS: Peak: #45, weeks: 16 > > NRH: Peak: #41, weeks: 14 > > TI: Peak: #47, weeks: 10 > > > > Of course, what I really want to know is how many total sales have there > > been to date for each album? Anyone know where one could get that info? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 18:57:52 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: joni mitchell Taming the Tiger poster Catherine McKay wrote: > --- Christopher Treacy wrote: > > As an avid collector of paper goods, especially all > > things Joni, I have to > > warn - THIS IS A FLAT. I'm very tired of people > > attempting to sell flats on > > ebay as posters (they do it ALL the time and it's SO > > misleading!). > > What is a flat? > A flat is a promotional copy of the album cover, the same size as an old LP. They generally have printing on both sides, and are used in displays in stores. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:04:26 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #89 >STASG: Peak: #189, weeks: 9 >Clouds: Peak: #31, weeks: 36 >LOTC: Peak: #27, weeks: 33 >Blue: Peak: #15, weeks: 28 >FTR: Peak: #11, weeks: 28 >CAS: Peak: #2 (4 weeks), weeks: 64 >MOA: Peak: #2 (1 week), weeks: 22 >THOSL: Peak: #4, weeks: 17 >Hejira: Peak: #13, weeks: 18 >DJRD: Peak: #25, weeks: 13 >Mingus: Peak: #17, weeks: 18 >SandL: Peak: #38, weeks: 16 >WTRF: Peak: #25, weeks: 21 >DED: Peak: #63, weeks: 19 >CMIARS: Peak: #45, weeks: 16 >NRH: Peak: #41, weeks: 14 >TI: Peak: #47, weeks: 10 BSN was also on the Billboard top 200 chart for several weeks and peaked at around #50 (was #1 briefly on Amazon.com). I don't think T'log has charted on Billboard at all. Anecdote: Mingus shows a peak at #17, but, as Joni pointed out in an interview once, that statistic is really inaccurate--because so few copies of the album were shipped in its initial shipment, retailers had to reorder it very quickly, causing an artificially high sales figure. Sales data are no longer gathered that way; I believe true over-the-counter sales are the exclusive means for calculating the charts (internet sales are included or reported separately, depending on which chart is reporting). There, now you know. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:30:04 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #85 Lori added: >What IS up with that? What's all this adoration of Reagan about? I >never, ever got it. I don't get it either, for Pete's sake. I mean people talk about that guy in God-like terms. They want to add his image to Mt. Rushmore! Many people give him credit for the demise of the Soviet Union, a major stretch as far as I'm concerned. As if...the 80's were so great. Thank God I was stoned and drunk the entire decade, I can barely remember it. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:38:32 EST From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Jonifest 2003 Just a friendly reminder that it would be really great to have deposits in for Jonifest right away if you are planning on being there. I only have 14 deposits in so far, and as I am personally responsible for filling the entire conference center, I am getting a little concerned. Go to: www.jonifest.com for more info. Also, unfortunately, Sharon Buffington will not be going to Jonifest this year, and I need someone to head up the raffle. This is what it entails: 1) Announcing (often) that people should send things to me for the raffle. 2) Arranging the items attractively in the barn early on in the weekend. (Preferably on Thursday.) Deciding and dividing them up into regular raffle and general giveaways. 3) Selling, selling, selling raffle tickets!!!!! 4) Expediantly and efficiently raffling off of the items. This year, I want to set up everything in the Barn early on so people can see what there is.......and then I want to do the raffling of the items on Saturday afternoon before dinner so it doesn't take up time from the performances. This job takes someone really organized, and good at follow-through. Please e-mail me as soon as possible if you are interested in this job. Thanks and hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:57:48 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: CD vs. Vinyl Joni Content Well, yeah. I like piano albums like "For the Roses" and "Boys For Pele" MUCH better on LP but space-rock like "The Yes Album" better on CD. Go for it. Me? I can't wait for my career to rebound so I can upgrade to an insanely expensive cartridge on the turntable. Lama Andrew (Little Bird) said, >>> I've been meaning to ask if anyone has noticed a considerable difference in the quality of sound on Joni's vinyl albums versus her CDs. I do have a turntable but no Joni on vinyl and I've always been curious about the sound difference. I find that vinyl records have more body to them while CDs offer clarity and I don't particularly mind a bit of the groove-scratch feedback. I think it's rather fun, actually. The reason I'm asking this is because I saw a freshly packaged copy of The Hissing of Summer Lawns on vinyl and so want to buy it! But is the sound any better on vinyl? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:42:14 -0800 (PST) From: Thom Byrd Subject: Photos Does anyone on this list have photos of joni that they have personally taken? Keep your pencil sharp, thom http://thombyrd.tripod.com/index.html Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 00:56:42 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: Joni in Record Collector, 100% JC Speaking of "Mingus", have I mentioned that Leonard Feather of "downbeat magazine" gave it 5 stars out of 5? I have? But have I mentioned it THIS week? Here's the first sentence to get the new folks started: "This is a wonderful piece of work." read up: http://www.jonimitchell.com/downbeat79.html Lama np: Tori Amos' "Under the Pink" on brand new vinyl. Yeah, baby! in a ghostly hand, Randy Remote wrote, >>>> While Mingus is generally blamed as the point in which Joni's career took a dive (even by herself), this table reveals that DJRD was the first release since Blue to drop below the top 20, at #25 as well as the third quickest to drop off the charts altogether. Mingus even rebounded to #17. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 07:19:39 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: re:Joni on vinyl - amen! >>As a teenager I had six of my favourite LP jackets up on the wall, arranged in a large square over my stereo.<< I had some LP jackets arranged on my wall too but never managed to make six of them fit into a large square shape. Where did I go wrong? Maybe three of them were gate-folds, meaning that they could include Miles of Aisles, Night Ride Home and Don Juan's Reckless Daughter. Or maybe you had nine rather than six? Or maybe they made a rectangular shape rather than a square? Or maybe I'm taking this all too seriously? Or maybe I'm really really bored at 07.18 ? Maybe I should get a life? P. Dantic in bcn NP Tower of Song ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 02:14:06 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: February 4 1966: Joni performed at The Chess Mate in Detroit. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 02:14:06 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: February 4 On February 4 the following item was published: 1992: "Is this any way to deal with a recession?" - Los Angeles Times (Review - Art Show) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=163 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #41 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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