From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #39 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, February 2 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 039 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- joni for the new generation [ROSCOE1TC@aol.com] Taming the Tiger print [Fauchja@aol.com] THE SHUTTLE ["Lucy Hone" ] Re: Taming the Tiger print [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Be Cool [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #82 Where does Joni stand [Catherine McKay ] Re: joni for the new generation [Little Bird ] possible Joni content [Kent Southard ] CD vs. Vinyl (Joni) [Little Bird ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #31 [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: yvette in english [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Gays' interest in Joni [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Crosby and Joni [Bobsart48@aol.com] Covers #37 A Prime collection [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Covers #37 - Win a freebie! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Hook, Line & Sinker sjc [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Covers #37 A Prime collection [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #37 [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: CD vs. Vinyl (Joni) [Dan Olson ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #38 [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: joni for the new generation [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #83 " Thanks " [Freddyb4@aol.com] Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) ["Happy The Man" ] Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) [Mags N Brei ] Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) ["kakki" ] Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) ["kakki" ] Billboard reviews BYT single [Randy Remote ] Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) [sl.m@shaw.ca] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 04:55:49 EST From: ROSCOE1TC@aol.com Subject: joni for the new generation i've been saying it for years, and maybe, now, someone will take me seriously. i''m not saying their styles are similar, and i never seem to be able to put my finger on exactly why i think this....but pj harvey is the joni mitchell for the new generation. if you had started with pj on her first release and then progressed with her through the decade, perhaps you could help me verbalize the parallels... perhaps it's just that no one else could touch her. perhaps it is the undeniable presence of this thing called "art." perhaps it is that each release saw her entering new territory--breaking new ground. i really do believe this. i really do. :-) terry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 07:11:42 EST From: Fauchja@aol.com Subject: Taming the Tiger print I was one of the lucky ones. I got a copy of the TTT print when I saw Joni with Bob at U of M several years ago. My sister, who had a cat identical to the one Joni's holding in the painting, wants that print! And, I have it, 2 of the 4 prints from BSN, and my signed Country Joe poster in my bedroom. Bottom line = anybody know where I can find/buy/get a copy of the TTT print? Fauchja (pronounced Facha - my dog's name) NP: Statesboro Blues - Roy Bookbinder ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 12:15:51 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: THE SHUTTLE HI to the list(s)..... I have left of NJC as this is something the Joni Onlies may want to get anyway... apologies if not, but this is a global community and when a tragedy strikes I think we need to be able to show our support and thoughts from around the world. Anyway, from this small corner of England come thoughts for the husbands, wives and children of the shuttle crew and also to you listers who may be feeling so very shocked... "they lent the world a light" Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 08:01:55 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Taming the Tiger print In a message dated 2/2/2003 7:12:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, Fauchja@aol.com writes: > anybody know where I can find/buy/get a copy of the TTT print? > That print shows up on Ebay fairly often...probably doesn't cost much either. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 08:05:43 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Be Cool In a message dated 2/2/2003 12:11:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: > Is it love? Is it showbiz? Or is it simply life? > You could probably make a case for all of those things, Andrew, but I've always heard it as being about love. Most of the other tracks on the record are about love/relationships, plus there's the "kick off that flaky valentine" bit which to me places it squarely in the mode of a love relationship. Bob, who also loves the T'log version - particularly when Joni sings "Don't WHINE..." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:25:17 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #82 Where does Joni stand --- Freddyb4@aol.com wrote: > Joni Mitchell was awsome, and I doubt if any > other female artist will > ever create such a volume of original work. Joni would tear a strip off you for that line alone, as she doesn't like being categorized as a "female" artist. I can't think of any male artists who have created such a volume of original work but then again, I guess you could say I'm prejudiced. Welcome to the list, Fred. Enjoy your stay. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:36:36 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Be Cool --- Little Bird wrote: > I'm sitting here playing the lyrics to "Be Cool" in > my > head, attempting to get my work done. Given the > recent > "over heated" events in my revealing little mishap, > I > thought it was time to cool down and keep things > lite. > > > So, I was wondering, what is "this game" that Joni > is > referring to in the song? > > "If there's one rule to this game > Everybody's gonna name it's be cool..." > > Is it love? Is it showbiz? Or is it simply life? > All of the above. This is Joni talking. She never means just one thing (whether she knows it or not!) And, like you, I do love the T version of this song better than the original. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 07:50:36 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: joni for the new generation Hey Terry - I appreciate your argument for PJ Harvey. She is indeed extremely talented. Having said that, I don't think anyone can really be called "the new Joni Mitchell." I know that Joni herself kind of resents the idea of a new "her" since she is still very much alive and well! Why replace one with another? I'm of the generation that should find people like PJ Harvey more interesting and relevant than Joni Mitchell but I think Joni has tremendous resonance for people in their mid-20s. Whether they are listening or not is another matter, but the wisdom contained in some of her older records far exceeds the level of brilliance on any "new" record I've heard. I'd look to Joni for generational understanding before I'd look to PJ Harvey. Also, I think a case could be made for a lot of musicians who have followed in Joni's footsteps and carved out a similar path for themselves. My vote goes to Annie Lennox, who has been in the game since the late 70s and is just starting to be recognized as an astounding contributor to music, with her recent "Contribution to Music" Brit Award and her 2002 Billboard Century Award. One writer said about her, "Annie Lennox is the missing link between Joni Mitchell and the future." To say ONE artist is the NEW Joni Mitchell is excluding a whole roster of interesting people, not all of them women, who have learned from Joni's example, although as I say above PJ Harvey is certainly among that group. Still, there's only one Joni and as long as she's around (probably even after she's gone) she'll be regarded as the gold standard for any musician of any generation. - -Andrew ROSCOE1TC@aol.com wrote:i've been saying it for years, and maybe, now, someone will take me seriously. i''m not saying their styles are similar, and i never seem to be able to put my finger on exactly why i think this....but pj harvey is the joni mitchell for the new generation. if you had started with pj on her first release and then progressed with her through the decade, perhaps you could help me verbalize the parallels... perhaps it's just that no one else could touch her. perhaps it is the undeniable presence of this thing called "art." perhaps it is that each release saw her entering new territory--breaking new ground. i really do believe this. i really do. :-) terry Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 08:10:39 -0800 From: Kent Southard Subject: possible Joni content Many of my Joni CD's are the HDCD encoded ones, and I'd wondered how much better they might sound on a player that had that capability - the NAD 571t has the HDCD feature, and as it's currently selling at half price, $400, I got one. And the difference is truly extraordinary, my system sounds like I just spent thousands rather than a few hundred. Clearer, richer, punchier, more detailed than you can believe. My previous CD player (also NAD) in comparison made the music seem like a paint by numbers picture with most of the canvas left white. I have so much respect for Joni Mitchell that even albums I don't exactly 'get' yet, I reserve judgment, figuring the fault's more likely with me. Mingus, to name names, but with this new player Mingus is presented with absolute studio presence and clarity and suddenly you see what she was getting at. I've been a big fan of Steve Hoffman's DCC gold remasters of Blue and Court and Spark, but now the HDCD's sound every bit as good. - Kent ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 08:20:57 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: CD vs. Vinyl (Joni) I've been meaning to ask if anyone has noticed a considerable difference in the quality of sound on Joni's vinyl albums versus her CDs. I do have a turntable but no Joni on vinyl and I've always been curious about the sound difference. I find that vinyl records have more body to them while CDs offer clarity and I don't particularly mind a bit of the groove-scratch feedback. I think it's rather fun, actually. The reason I'm asking this is because I saw a freshly packaged copy of The Hissing of Summer Lawns on vinyl and so want to buy it! But is the sound any better on vinyl? It just occured to me how excited I'd be if I found Travelogue on vinyl! Oh my lord! - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 12:02:12 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #31 In a message dated 1/27/03 11:09:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > kimerer@taconic.net http://jonimitchell.com/Frames1.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 12:04:28 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: yvette in english Bruce asked: "The recent posts about David Crosby have made me wonder about the JM/DC collaboration "Yvette in English." Does anyone know who wrote which -- words/music (the music sounds kinda Crosby-like to me)? And how it came about? And are there any other JM/DC songs floating around out there?" If it has not already been posted (I am a week behind), I think you will enjoy this link. It answers your questions, and more ! I http://jonimitchell.com/Frames1.html Bob's Art ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 13:22:21 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Gays' interest in Joni Andrew wrote (a week ago): > Of course there are gay men who hate Joni Mitchell, who can't stand her, who > can't even bear to hear a single note from one of her songs - I know a few! > Some gay men identify more strongly with the glitz and glamour of Barbra > Streisand or Liza Minnelli. Not me, but a LOT of gay men do! So, there > really is no rule or reason that we can apply to every gay man and every > gay woman where a love for Joni Mitchell's music is concerned, or any other > habits for that matter. Refer to the lines of "Borderline" to see what I > mean. "every measure, every gage..." > Basically, however, the majority of gay men find that female vocalists best > articulate their feelings - at least that's been my experience. Every gay > man I know has a vast collection of female artists and only a handful of > male artists, myself included. Maybe this is because women tend to sing > about men; maybe it's because gay men are more emotionally similar to women > than straight men; maybe it's because the female voice is more expressive. > There are no answers only theories. > A few related thoughts: 1. I think it would be really interesting to know the results of a demographic study of Joni's record buyers (a surrogate for who her fans are). Would it produce a gay/straight balance similar to the one on this list ? Or would it tell us that there is something 'extra' about the composition of this list, even within her fan base, such as what Lori (I believe) alluded to? 2. Let us hypothesize for a minute that there is a higher percentage of gays on this list than among her fan base. That might spawn any number of further hypotheses as to why that should be so, almost all of which might be tarnished by outside factors such as degree of acceptance/comfort level (which in itself could be subjected to "chicken or the egg" types of speculation). All of this is a reminder that we need to treat statistics very, very carefully when drawing conclusions about almost any topic where said statistics are presented as 'evidence'. 3. One thing I know for sure is that I personally have benefited in terms of my 'comfort level' by being part of this community (which is far more 'mixed' than my day-to-day connections, which - by my choice or others' - tend to be more homogeneous, er - heterosexual). That is not to say that I have no contact with the gay community in my life - I play tournament bridge, and have known dozens (and met hundreds) of gays in that context. But sharing thoughts and feelings on sensitive matters has generally not been part of those relationships. Here, I get the opportunity over time to become comfortable with and appreciate perspectives that previously discomfited me greatly - even those with which I continue to disagree. In this regard, I think the JMDL has an intrinsically positive aspect - one I do not otherwise find in my life. 4. As for my personal hypothesis on this topic, I think that it is possible that if one could conduct a definitive study (you know, like God has the answer), one might find that - within the bell curve - gays are on average more sensitive to external stimuli (hence, more artistically oriented and - in that way - more knowledgeable about what is going on around them, if not more intelligent) than straight people. I offer no explanation as to why that might be so - and in any event, I see that as a compliment (OK to offer, consistent with my theory that there is a difference between offering opinions or hypotheses that compliment rather than degrade). Also, I think that simply as a rite of passage, most gays have been forced to confront a truth about themselves that was - for whatever reasons, but at least in large part societally imposed - uncomfortable at first. Having passed that test of self effacement and self realization leaves gays one step ahead of us straight people, on balance, many of whom may go many years - even a lifetime - - without being forced to confront such a profoundly uncomfortable realization (such as - yes, we really are assholes to the tips of our toes - to quote JM). 5. Andrew, I know you wrote you did not want to speak on behalf of gay women, but I do not see your conclusions about gay men's listening biases (namely, a positive one toward female artists) explaining my observations (of this list) about Joni's equal or greater appeal to gay women. Rather, I think that Joni's often ruthless self-examination and search for the truth within her (not that she or we always succeed) is a primary marker among her fan base. That a higher percentage of gays would find that more magnetically attactive does not surprise me. Bob's Art ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 14:03:00 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Crosby and Joni Jimmy reported: > Mingus asked him if he could ask him a few questions, and Crosby said > "Nah, I don't think so". It wasn't as if Ming was going to ask him only > questions about Joni, but Crosby was pretty rude in my opinion. > > I was very intimidated, and as a certain jmdler told me last week "Crosby > is > not very approachable"........... Oh yeah, well David Crosby can be intimidated, too. Let's post a few from "that interview", for penance: I walked into a coffee house and was just completely smitten. She was standing there singing all those songs ... "Michael from Mountains," "Both Sides Now," and I was just floored. I couldn't believe that there was anybody that good. And I also fell ... I loved her, as it were. I was extremely fascinated with the quality of the music and the quality of the girl. She was such an unusual, passionate and powerful woman. In a hundred years when they look back and say, "Who was the best?" - it's going to be her. WB: I agree. Probably her and Dylan. DC: It's going to be her. She's a better poet than Dylan and without question a far better musician. I don't think there's anybody who can touch her. James Taylor comes close, but I think it's her, and I don't think the record companies ever realized that or have known what the story was. my favorite trick at the time was to invite everyone over, get a joint of dope that was stronger than they could possibly smoke and get her to play and they would walk out stupefied. They'd never heard anything like her and it was a lot of fun. It only stopped being fun when I started producing her first record. Joni is not a person that you stay in a relationship with. It always goes awry, no matter who you are. It's an inevitable thing. We were starting to have friction and at the same time I was starting to produce her record and I didn't really know how. Yes, it was very difficult for me. I'd sit there and struggle over one song, like "Guinevere" for a month, and she would have written 5 songs that week. WB: After you met Joni in Florida, you mentioned that you took her out sailing. That must've been very romantic, I would imagine, being out there on the ocean, playing guitars together?DC: Yes, it turned out that way. We had some wonderful times together early on, when she went sailing with me. (He pauses) ...You have to understand, Wally, I still love her. She's the best, and if you quote anything from me, say that I said she was the best and I've always said that. WB: And what is she best at, David?DC: She's the best singer/songwriter there is, man. There isn't anybody close, I don't think. DC: I think in the long run when they look back and say who really did it, it will be her. Maybe he was just having a "bad hair" day. ;-) Bob's Art ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 14:07:02 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Covers #37 A Prime collection Well, the ol' groundhog popped his head out of his hidey-hole and burst into "Chelsea Morning", so I guess it's time to announce the latest addition to the JMDL Joni covers family! 37 is a prime number, and that is most appropriate as this too is a prime collection of Joni songs performed by a plethora of performers. Contributors to this volume are: Monica Cardinale Joseph Palis And here's what's on it: 1. White Rose - Michael: We know it as Michael From Mountains, this early 70's UK folk group was on a first-name basis with the song. 2. Inga Luehning & Volume - Black Crow: Dutch jazz group takes on with much success one of my favorite Joni songs. 3. Foster & Allen - Both Sides Now: This Irish guitar/accordion duet cranked out 100 songs on 1 CD, all medley-ized for your protection. We hear their cheesy take on BSN and fade out as they segue to "Secret Love". 4. Wayne Roland Brown - Woodstock: Don't know much about Mr. Brown, but this is an AWESOME psychedelic Doors-like treatment. 5. Counting Crows - Big Yellow Taxi: Enough's been said about this one, this is the non-Vanessa version, the "hidden track" from their latest release "Hard Candy". 6. Harry Beckett - Goodbye Pork Pie Hat: Brit trumpeter Beckett worked with Mingus in the 60's, and included this fine instrumental on his Mingus tribute CD. 7. Bud Shank with The Bob Alcivar Singers: Bud's a household name in the world of Jazz; his fine sax work has accompanied many of the greats. The sax here is great, the vocals are definitely dated. Still, a nice treatment of the franchise. 8. Ten Sharp - He Played Real Good For Free: A fairly recent recording, Ten Sharp is a male duet, and this was a bonus track included on a CD-single. 9. Mark Wise - Woodstock: This is one of my faves; I included it on my first "Sweet 16" compilation. Mark's got a nice rustic upbeat folkish sound, and this track includes fine fiddle work. Mark's originally from LA and recalls seeing Joni at the Troubadour way back when. 10. Tom & Judy - I Don't Know Where I Stand 11. Tom & Judy - Chelsea Morning The "Tom" here is Tommy Banks, a Canadian who must be a big Joni fan because his big band did a great version of BYT which we've heard previously in the collection. Both of these earlier "folk" covers are outstanding in my book. 12. Fascinating Screen Sounds - Both Sides Now: Answers the musical question "what if they had used BSN as the theme song to 'Midnight Cowboy' instead of "Everybody's Talkin' At Me"? 13. Cliff Richard - (You're So Square) Baby, I Don't Care: Cliff was never as big in the states as he was in Britain, where he was huge. Here he does his best Elvis while hordes of young girls scream their undying love. This one goes out to my favorite Cliff Richard fan, you know who you are! ;~) 14. Tracey Campbell - Big Yellow Taxi 15. Tracey Campbell - Woodstock Don't know much about Tracey, I believe she's from NZ or Australia. Anyway, she has a lovely voice, and these are both wonderful tracks in a light jazz/pop mold. BYT especially is very unique & beautiful. 16. Judy Page - Both Sides Now: Pretty much just another pop singer version. Another "page" in the history of Joni covers... 17. Family Four - Runt, Runt Runt I Ett Ekorrhjul 18. Family Four - Tidig Sommarmorgan I love foreign language versions, and these Swedish takes on The Circle Game & Chelsea Morning are certainly no exception. 19. Kevyn Lettau - You Turn Me On I'm A Radio: Kevyn's astounding physical beauty is outdone only by her superb singing. She graced our collection earlier with her very unique take on "People's Parties". This is another selection on my 'Sweet 16" CD. 20. Stella Ignacio - Twisted: I'll leave it to my buddy Joseph to give us info about Stella; this version of Twisted is definitely inspired by Joni's cover on C&S, listen to that note-for-note muted trumpet intro. 21. Ralna English - Both Sides Now: a one-a, and a two-a, and-a you all remember Ralna from the Lawrence Welk show...this particular track was taken from the soundtrack to the film "Changes". OK, so there it is...wow, 21 tracks, 21 hits - all on one high falutin', Joni-salutin' CD. One of the best of the lot if I do say so myself! Bob NP: Family Four, "Runt Runt Runt I Ett Ekorrhjul" (Hey, who you callin' a runt?) :~) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 14:18:07 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Covers #37 - Win a freebie! As always, I'll be flinging some givaway covers frisbees around the globe...all you have to do is pick a song on a Joni record and tell me the song AND ALBUM title. The two closest win a free copy of this month's trib to SIQUOMB. Open to ALL members around the world! Plus, I'll give a free copy to the first JMDL'er who emails me & currently lives in: Montana, or Idaho, or South Dakota No guess required - just tell me your address! So guess away! I'll close out the contest on Friday at midnight, and announce the winners on Saturday. Remember, you can't win if you don't guess, and hell, it's free. Bob NP: Fascinating Screen Sounds, "Both Sides Now" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 15:28:55 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Hook, Line & Sinker sjc Last night I found my way (w/o getting lost lol) to this bar/restaurant in Rumson, NJ (home of the Boss) to see Bobby Bandiera. He was one of the Jukes of South Side Johnny and the Asbury Jukes. When the band went on around 10 PM, they were taking requests and some guy at the bar shouted out, Joni Mitchell!!!! That's the Joni content. I never had that happen except at a Cagno gig, and I'm usually the requester. I thought he was kidding, but then when the opportunity presented itself again, he yelled it out again. I don't think Bobby knows any Joni, well perhaps he does, but this is a party band. They opened with Here Comes The Sun, kinda fitting after a long harsh winter here in Jersey. They did some awesome Doors cover like LA Woman, some Stones...you get the picture. All the baby boomers were out. Place was jam packed. My blouse stuck to some guy's Velcro on his jacket trying to squeeze my way through the crowd to the ladies room LMAO! It works every time he said to me. I wanted to bring Alison to Jukesville last night since she's in the Big Apple. She wasn't feeling so hot having a bit of a bout of bronchitis. She sends her love. Well, that's how I spent my Saturday night. rosie in nj Better ask questions before you shoot Deceit and betrayal's bitter fruit It's hard to swallow, come time to pay. That taste on your tongue don't easily slip away Let Kingdom come. I'm gonna find my way Through this lonesome day ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 15:31:51 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Covers #37 A Prime collection Bob writes: << 21. Ralna English - Both Sides Now: a one-a, and a two-a, and-a you all remember Ralna from the Lawrence Welk show...this particular track was taken from the soundtrack to the film "Changes". >> And if you've been reading the Joni in Fiction section of the JMDL, you aleady knew this! (Thanks to JiF contributor Bob Muller!) http://www.jmdl.com/fiction/film.cfm Remember, when you read about Joni in FILMS, you can click on the image to buy the films listed, or click on the title and you'll immediately be taken to the Internet Movie Data Base (IMDB.com) where you can learn more about each movie than you'll ever need to know (thanks to Les and Lori). - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 15:47:37 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #37 In a message dated 2/1/03 3:01:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > : > Mark T asked about these lines: > He went to California > Hearing that everything's warmer there > So you write him a letter and say, "Her eyes are blue" > He sends you a poem and she's lost to you > Little Green, he's a non-conformer I have also wondered about them. Here's my take. The father has fled Dodge City for CA. She cannot afford the child by herself. She writes about her to the father, who sends a poem instead of cash (he's a non-comformer). She has to give up the baby. I am probably being a simpleton here. Hoping for a more interesting answer from someone else. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 14:24:53 -0700 From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: CD vs. Vinyl (Joni) I've always been skeptical of digital recording; I didn't own a CD player until 1993. I was buying LP's exclusively up until that time, in fact NRH was the last new LP I bought; I wonder how many vinyl copies of that album sold. Long before such things as email lists, I started a draft of a letter to Joni (I never finished it), in which I thanked her for putting NRH out on vinyl (very few artists/labels still did at that time), and I was so happy to be able to get it. I immediately recorded it on cassette, and thus was able to listen to it extensively (on trips, with other people) I have essentially all of Joni's albums on vinyl; Some I've had several copies of. For example, I had a perfectly good copy of THOSL, but I found (somewhere, garage sale?) a mint-condition British copy of it), so I gave my other one to a friend. After CD's started replacing LP's (in the late '80's), many new CD owners got rid of their LP's, many mint-condition copies of which (JM and others) I picked up at terrific prices in used records stores. Music is the ultimate analog barrage of information; No matter how finely digitized a recording is, it can only be an approximation. Supposedly, the resolution used in modern digital recording is "sufficient" to fool our brains; I remain unconvinced (but of course, I listen to CD's all the time). I have converted many of JM's older albums from LP to digital form. This is the worst of both worlds; it's digital, but it's noisy (mostly I think, the rumble of my turntable). However, with a decent turnatable, LP's sound just fine, but they are extrememly inconvenient. But, I love LP's for their artwork (JM's being among the finest as visual art, obviously), and I LOVE my record collection. To answer your question: I would definitely snatch up that copy of THOSL, just to have the cover art, and crank it, baby! At 08:20 AM 2/2/2003 -0800, you wrote: >I've been meaning to ask if anyone has noticed a considerable difference >in the quality of sound on Joni's vinyl albums versus her CDs. I do have a >turntable but no Joni on vinyl and I've always been curious about the >sound difference. I find that vinyl records have more body to them while >CDs offer clarity and I don't particularly mind a bit of the >groove-scratch feedback. I think it's rather fun, actually. > >The reason I'm asking this is because I saw a freshly packaged copy of The >Hissing of Summer Lawns on vinyl and so want to buy it! But is the sound >any better on vinyl? > >It just occured to me how excited I'd be if I found Travelogue on vinyl! >Oh my lord! > >-Andrew >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 16:25:52 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #38 Scott wrote > "I could drink a case of you > And still be on my feet" > > I always thought this meant Joni felt she couldn't get enough of him. > Unlike > a bottle or an entire case of wine, when once you reach the point of > overconsumption it becomes painfully obvious you've had too much, with this > > guy, she could "consume" as much as she wanted and she'd still want more. > I would add "and not be poisoned after too big a dose". Here, there is a declaration of the perfect mesh - intoxicating but not lethal. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 15:43:29 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: joni for the new generation Interesting what you say about Annie Lennox - I love her too. But it's more her voice and style I love. I'm not sure her lyrics can compete with Joni, who writes pure poetry, whereas Annie Lennox is more of a lyrics-to-be-sung person, IMO. But brilliant all the same. Sarah At 7:50 AM -0800 02/02/2003, Little Bird wrote: >. . .I think a case could be made for a lot of musicians who have >followed in Joni's footsteps and carved out a similar path for >themselves. My vote goes to Annie Lennox, who has been in the game >since the late 70s and is just starting to be recognized as an >astounding contributor to music, with her recent "Contribution to >Music" Brit Award and her 2002 Billboard Century Award. One writer >said about her, "Annie Lennox is the missing link between Joni >Mitchell and the future." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 16:52:14 EST From: Freddyb4@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #83 " Thanks " I didn't expect to be welcomed by people into this group, and I'm pleased to find that so many are like me, "As daft as a brush," I mean that in the nicest possible way of course. Music is a personal thing, and all of us have liked someone who no-one else seems to like, and maybe Joni and her music is just too deep, for people with a "Wam bam thank you mam" approach to lyrics, and so they just don't try, for me her music reaches inside, and it is hard to understand why some people can't relate to it, yet I don't like the music of Van Morrison, yet so many people do. SO!!!! all of you, it's admit it time, lets see how diverse our tastes are, list 10 artists/groups you like, but at the end of the list you must include that secret that you meant to take to the grave, you know, you love The Bay City Rollers!!! My list Joni Mitchell - especially her earlier work Cat Stevens - James Taylor - Labi Siffri - Beatles - Cheryl Crow - Erasure - Squeese Doris Day - Nat King Cole, I don't care what anyone says, nobody can sing that well. and Doris is a dream, Oh yes she is ! I didn't give this much thought, I could have included Kathleen Farrier, she died in the 50's, and a favourite song on the radio when I was a kid was "Blow the wind Southerly" and if that womans voice doesn't move you, you're not human. The Shuttle disaster means somebody will be missing someone, this is something I wrote on the evening of September 11th, had I lost my life so unexpectedly, I thought about all those thing that are left unsaid, and wondered if it were possible, what I would want to say to my family. Bye for now Fred "REMEMBER ME" CLOSE YOUR EYES, CAN YOU HERE ME? IbVE SOMETHING TO SAY PLEASE BE STRONG, HELP EACH OTHER SURVIVE, THINK OF ME, EVEN TALK TO ME, IbM WITH YOU EACH DAY, NOW YOUR MEMORIES WILL KEEP ME ALIVE. IbM SORRY IbM NOT THERE, TO PROVE THAT I CARE, AND IbM SORRY FOR ANY TEARS I MADE YOU CRY, IF I EVER TOOK YOU FOR GRANTED, THEN THAT WAS UNFAIR, PLEASE FORGIVE ME, OR AT LEAST, WILL YOU TRY. REMEMBER EACH DAY, AS YOUR SUN GOES AWAY, YOUR NIGHTS ARE NOT AS DARK AS THEY SEEM, IbM THE SHADOWS THAT TOUCH YOU AND KISS YOU GOOD NIGHT, IbLL KEEP YOU WARM AND SAFE IN YOUR DREAMS. I WISH I COULD HUG YOU, HOLD YOU SO TIGHT, AND CHASE AWAY ALL YOUR FEARS, I JUST WISH I COULD SOOTHE AWAY ALL YOUR PAIN, AND KISS AWAY ALL YOUR TEARS. NOW PLEASE REMEMBER MY GRIN, AND THE WAY I WALKED IN, MY HELLO, MY EXCUSES, MY GOODBYE, AND REMEMBER MY DARES, OR JUST THE SCENT OF MY HAIR, AND ALL OUR DREAMS, THAT WERE "PIE IN THE SKY." AND REMEMBER MY LIFE, AND ALL THOSE SONGS THAT I LIKED, OR THE MAD WAY I RAN UP THE STAIRS. WHEN YOU LEFT ME ALONE, I ALWAYS WISHED YOU WOULD PHONE, I ALWAYS MISSED YOU WHEN YOU WERENbT THERE. DRAW STRENGTH FROM ME NOW, MAKE ME PROUD, HOW YOUbLL GROW, RISE ABOVE, SPREAD YOUR WINGS, BE SO FREE, AND MAY PEACE RULE YOUR LIFE, FILLED WITH LAUGHTER AND LOVE, AND FROM TIME TO TIME, THINK OF ME AND WHEN YOU DO, REMEMBER HOW I LOVED YOU. I KNOW HOW MUCH YOU LOVED ME. FRED BEACH SEPT 11TH 2001 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 16:25:07 -0600 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) These bloodless brides of Jesus If they had just once glimpsed their groom Then they'd know, and they'd drop the stones Concealed behind their rosaries They wilt the grass they walk upon They leech the light out of a room They'd like to drive us down the drain At the Magdalene laundries Being in ministry as long as I was this hits way to close to home. The idea of having one glimpse of their groom. Joni did just play with the bible she read it. The passion play and other songs show she is actually schooled a bit in the Word. Of course the dropping the stones is the story on the attempted stoning of Mary Magdalene (how appropriate). I always like the scripture reference to the fact the old man dropped the stones first when Jesus made his famous quote. Leech the light out a room is one of the most vividly painted lyrics I have ever heard. This is powerful stuff that has played through history. People of God literally taking the light of Christ out of a room and actually doing evil things. my fave Peace, Craig NP: Dixie Chicks - Traveling Solider ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 17:51:41 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) << People of God literally taking the light of Christ out of a room and actually doing evil things. >> Since I know that Joni wasn't raised Catholic, I always thought Joni's anti-nun venom in this song was pretty strong for someone who probably never had much to do with Catholic clergy. Then someone posted in the last few days that nuns pressured Joni to give up her baby as soon as possible because younger babies are easier to find homes for. Before then I had never understood how painfully personal this song must be for Joni. - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 17:16:42 -0700 From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: Joni in Record Collector I compiled some data found at http://www.robotwisdom.com/jorn/joni.html Peak = peak position, weeks = number of weeks on chart (top 200?) STASG: Peak: #189, weeks: 9 Clouds: Peak: #31, weeks: 36 LOTC: Peak: #27, weeks: 33 Blue: Peak: #15, weeks: 28 FTR: Peak: #11, weeks: 28 CAS: Peak: #2 (4 weeks), weeks: 64 MOA: Peak: #2 (1 week), weeks: 22 THOSL: Peak: #4, weeks: 17 Hejira: Peak: #13, weeks: 18 DJRD: Peak: #25, weeks: 13 Mingus: Peak: #17, weeks: 18 SandL: Peak: #38, weeks: 16 WTRF: Peak: #25, weeks: 21 DED: Peak: #63, weeks: 19 CMIARS: Peak: #45, weeks: 16 NRH: Peak: #41, weeks: 14 TI: Peak: #47, weeks: 10 Of course, what I really want to know is how many total sales have there been to date for each album? Anyone know where one could get that info? At 12:39 AM 2/2/2003 +0000, you wrote: >That was the highest chart position the album got to in the UK. It was 25 in >the US. I'm never quite sure on how the charts are put together but I do >know that in the US airplay might go towards the score where here it is pure >sells. I'm not sure if that is only for US singles and not albums. It's >weird that alot of Joni's music has done slightly better over here >considering she has always had a much bigger profile in the US. What's even >stranger is that Joni has had 5 top 10 albums which have either been top 10 >in the US or in the UK but never both! > >STEVE T > > >"Dan Olson" wrote:- > > Your post suggests an issue: What does it mean for an album to be #20 >(what > > an amazing achievment for DJRD in the UK; I'll bet it never reached that > > here - see post below)? Is it the RATE at which they're selling (taken > > over what period), and do I understand correctly that sales only "count" >if > > they're from major chains like Tower. What's up with that? > > > > At 09:22 PM 1/30/2003 +0000, you wrote: > > >Has anyone seen the Record Collector mag yet? > > >Right at the back they do a '25 years ago' thing and this month they > > >mentioned that DJRD got to number 20 in the UK this month 25 years ago. > > >There is also a photo of Joni holding a rose. I'm guessing it was used to > > >promote the album when it came out. She looks so pretty. One of the best > > >Joni photos I've seen! > > > > > >Stephen Toogood > > > > > > >At 12:45 PM 1/22/2003 -0500, wrote: > > >In the This Month is History section of jmdl, it > > >tells us that THOSL peaked at #4 on the U.S. charts, > > >and HEJIRA peaked at #13. That's amazing, huh? > > >With no hits on the radio? Wow. > > > > > > I had previously suggested that Hejira was the last album that the general > > public bought; a new theory is that DJRD sold poorly because it was a > > double album. Lots of double albums did/do poorly (the White album, > > T'log); I believe there is too much new material to digest properly - It's > > not the right "chunk" of new material. > > > >Stephen Toogood > >"The snow falls like bolts of lace" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 16:20:25 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) Craig wrote: << People of God literally taking the light of Christ out of a room and actually doing evil things. >> and then Smurph wrote: <<>> now moi: There's lots of pressure from peers, parents, doctors, lawyers, as well as nurses/people who work in the hospital as well as the church to do the "right" thing and relinquish a baby which was born out of "wedlock" (hate that term but that's another issue) Read about the nuns associated with the Magdalene Laundries scandal in Ireland..and see for yourself. Cruel behaviour. ...perhaps that explains the aforementioned venom a la Joan. Mags You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 16:40:26 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: joni for the new generation my neice who is 23 & a very talented singer/songwriter (winner of the international gospel association award last year) was raised & heavily influenced by joni & one of her other major influences/inspiration is pj harvey...this is someone i have been meaning to but not yet listened to yet...so, where should i start? at the beginning? terry >> and i never seem to be able to put my finger on exactly why i think this....but pj harvey is the joni mitchell for the new generation.>> ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 17:12:36 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) Hi Mags, you wrote: > There's lots of pressure from peers, parents, doctors, lawyers, as well as nurses/people who work in the hospital as >well as the church to do the "right" thing and relinquish a baby which was born out of "wedlock" (hate that term but >that's another issue) Read about the nuns associated with the Magdalene Laundries scandal in Ireland..and see for >yourself. Cruel behaviour. ...perhaps that explains the aforementioned venom a la Joan. I think Joni might have a love/hate relationship with those old-world nuns she was exposed to and also, I think, when she was in the hospital long-term with polio as a child. Why did she turn to them again when she was pregnant? One can argue that they were there for her when she felt she apparently had nowhere else to go. Now I'm wondering about social services in Canada back at that time. Were there no other options for her and was welfare assistance not available to her? I recall a "home" here in LA for unwed mothers back in that time period which was not affiliated with any religion and was supported by philanthropists. I remember that some woman and young girls would go there even though they could have stayed at home with their parents for the duration of the pregnancy. They did it because of the "stigma" at the time. They could disappear for a few months and then come back to school and make up any story to explain their absence. Sad. My recollection from the Joni articles and interviews is that she kept her baby for awhile and then sould not support her alone. She then put her in a foster home. Joni had photos of Kilauren as a baby and that is one of the ways she knew Kilauren was her daughter - because Kilauren also had baby photos from the same age which matched Joni's. Chuck promised to take the baby, she thought she could take the baby back. Then Chuck reneged and Joni had to "sign all the papers." Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 19:41:19 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) I suppose it's something in your mind, Kakki, even if there's welfare help available. Something put the idea in her mind that she couldn't cope alone, couldn't be a mother, was a "child with a child, pretending." Maybe a sense of worthlessness, or an inability to self-define. I can only guess. Whatever it was, it must have been heartbreaking. Sarah At 5:12 PM -0800 02/02/2003, kakki wrote: >I think Joni might have a love/hate relationship with those old-world nuns >she was exposed to and also, I think, when she was in the hospital long-term >with polio as a child. Why did she turn to them again when she was >pregnant? One can argue that they were there for her when she felt she >apparently had nowhere else to go. Now I'm wondering about social services >in Canada back at that time. Were there no other options for her and was >welfare assistance not available to her? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 17:45:29 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) Sarah wrote: > I suppose it's something in your mind, Kakki, even if there's welfare > help available. . Whatever it was, it must have been > heartbreaking. Just as a preface - some people on the list get very upset when this subject is discussed - so just so they won't (hopefully) jump on me - I have never sat in judgment of Joni for her life experiences. I know it must have been heartbreaking because I'm old enough to remember societal mores back then and the truly helpless position of many women and girls in her situation. I had a few friends and acquantinances in the same situation growing up. I'm absolutely not suggesting she should have done everything she could have to keep her baby. I was specifically curious as to why she chose to go to a Catholic home to help her during her pregnancy and whether there were not any other options (like a government-funded facility or a Protestant-affiliated home, etc.) that she could have turned to instead. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 18:01:32 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Billboard reviews BYT single COUNTING CROWS Big Yellow Taxi (3:56) Producer: Ron Fair Writer: J. Mitchell Publisher: Siquomb, BMI Geffen/Interscope (CD Promo) "Big Yellow Taxi" has certainly been down the highway a few times, with charted versions by originator Joni Mitchell, Janet Jackson, and Amy Grant. Counting Crows somehow manage to jump-start new life into the old jalopy, while adding an amiable rock edge that shakes out any suspected tread wear. The song is perfectly suited to Adam Durwitz's folksy storytelling vocal style and in fact, conjures fond memories of the group's quirky 1994 bow, "Mr. Jones." Producer Ron Fair stripped on Vanessa Carlton in one version to sing a series of "bop bops" in the background (a seemingly self-serving move, considering that he produced her debut), which adds an appreciable playfulness. It's been a while since these guys have burned up the charts, but "Taxi" is certainly a warm reminder of the Crows' undeniable verve. A worthy contender.--CT [Chuck Taylor] In the spirit of synchronicity, on another page of the same issue, there is a strange ad by a guy named Van Gogh holding a guitar with the quote "I'll cut off one of my ears...if I don't get a deal in 2 years" [hey, he knows how to rhyme] Began 3/21/01, he then appeals to Sheryl Crow, Lenny Kravitz, Dave Matthews, Alanis and Anthony and Flea of RHCP to pass a recommendation to a professional manager or record company on his behalf, so he will be saved from a "harsh fate and eternal ridicule. My time is very limited". I'm not making this shit up. This guy has less than 3 weeks. Or his ear does, anyway. Dear Theo, ......... RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 20:17:06 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) Kakki, I wasn't trying to suggest you were being less than sympathetic. No, I know what you mean. She was old enough to keep her baby, and in theory there were people who could have helped in a different way. That's what I meant when I said it ends up being something in your mind. Something caused her to believe she couldn't do it, and maybe she was right about herself, or she made it right, who knows? We can't think ourselves into her position, not exactly. I suppose in going to the nuns, you go to what you know, even if you despise it. Maybe they were the ones who put the sense of worthlessness into her in the first place. I'm guessing wildly here, because I have no idea, but it wouldn't surprise me. There may even have been an element of self-punishment in it: I'm not good enough, I'll give the baby to people who will know I'm not good enough etc. Odd ideas can lodge in young girls' minds with surprising ferocity, and they often come out in the first flush of a pregnancy - feelings of self-disgust, low self-esteem, self-hatred, lack of self-definition. For that reason, it's important to keep young girls (boys too, but for other reasons) away from people who will make them feel inadequate or inferior - and sadly, the Catholic Church has a reputation for excelling in those areas. Sarah At 5:45 PM -0800 02/02/2003, kakki wrote: >. . I have neversat in judgment of Joni for her life experiences. I >know it must have been >heartbreaking because I'm old enough to remember societal mores back then >and the truly helpless position of many women and girls in her situation. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #39 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)