From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #38 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, February 2 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 038 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- joni, willy the shake & alanis ["ron" ] Fw: joni, willy the shake & alanis ["ron" ] Re: joni, willy the shake & alanis [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] re: little green ["mia ortlieb" ] joni prejudice [twoshoes@sasktel.net] pets' names [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: joni, willy the shake & alanis [Ricw1217@aol.com] 8 & 1/2 weeks and counting down: American Masters special on USA's PBS ["] Joni lines ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Joni Parody ["Happy The Man" ] chucking ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Joni lines - A Case of You [Scott Price ] Re: best songs to impress non-Joni fans ["Stephen Toogood" ] joni is a sheep (or ram)! ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #82 Where does Joni stand [Freddyb4@aol.com] Re: Joni lines - A Case of You [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Be Cool [Little Bird ] Today in History: February 2 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: February 2 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] RE: Joni lines - A Case of You ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: joni, willy the shake & alanis hi what a combination :-) last week i went to the 40th birthday party of an old friend. hadnt seen him for 13 years. so the talk turned to music, and he still remembered that i loved joni. some of the people said she was great till she became inccessable. (hosl in his opinion) i replied that she was great all along, when she turned inacessable thats when it really started to show :-) then my friend stated in all seriousness that alanis morissette is the joni for the new generation. i didnt want to seem arrogant by reacting the way i wanted to ( hysterical laughter) so i just said i didnt know alanis' music well enough. now i see someone else posted about the little green line being sloppy & said joni's no willy the shake. well after my friends comment the other day, i had been thinking a lot. are we just being arrogant? is joni the voice of a generation, and if so, who is the new generations voice? i couldnt pin joni into a generation. shes just too timeless, too universal. so i came to the conclusion that she is the voice of an age ( tho i really cant define age ). along the lines of willy the shake. people will be looking at, analysing, and treating her writings and music with the respect they deserve hundreds of years in the future. there may be lesser musicians who are the voices of a generation. here i would have to look at people like bob dylan, van morrison, leonard cohen. joni is on a different level. and do other people ever get the feeling that people think youre just being obstinate and/or arrogant when they start suggeting that other musicians are also as good as joni and you eithr politely disagree or burst out laughing as the case may be. ron joni - sunny sunday ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 03:02:39 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Fw: joni, willy the shake & alanis hi last week i went to the 40th birthday party of an old friend. hadnt seen him for 13 years. so the talk turned to music, and he still remembered that i loved joni. some of the people said she was great till she became inccessable. (hosl in his opinion) i replied that she was great all along, when she turned inacessable thats when it really started to show :-) then my friend stated in all seriousness that alanis morissette is the joni for the new generation. i didnt want to seem arrogant by reacting the way i wanted to ( hysterical laughter) so i just said i didnt know alanis' music well enough. now i see someone else posted about the little green line being sloppy & said joni's no willy the shake. well after my friends comment the other day, i had been thinking a lot. are we just being arrogant? is joni the voice of a generation, and if so, who is the new generations voice? i couldnt pin joni into a generation. shes just too timeless, too universal. so i came to the conclusion that she is the voice of an age ( tho i really cant define age ). along the lines of willy the shake. people will be looking at, analysing, and treating her writings and music with the respect they deserve hundreds of years in the future. there may be lesser musicians who are the voices of a generation. here i would have to look at people like bob dylan, van morrison, leonard cohen. joni is on a different level. and do other people ever get the feeling that people think youre just being obstinate and/or arrogant when they start suggeting that other musicians are also as good as joni and you eithr politely disagree or burst out laughing as the case may be. ron joni - sunny sunday ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 08:24:32 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: joni, willy the shake & alanis In a message dated 2/1/2003 5:22:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, flopit@mweb.co.za writes: > are > we just being arrogant? is joni the voice of a generation, and if so, who > is > the new generations voice? > Hi Ron- I wouldn't label Joni as the "voice of a generation"...I would associate Dylan or even Baez with that before I would Joni. With the exception of Woodstock, and some of the DED stuff, her songs seem to be more about universalities and not specific issues tied to a certain time. Like you say, years from now her music will still be listened to, relevant, and analyzed. As will Dylan's of course. As for trying to convince others about Joni, I think either you get it or you don't. And I've never seen Morrisette as anything more than a flash in the pan. Maybe I'm wrong, time will tell. Not that I'm looking for one, but Ani Difranco has more characteristics of being the "next Joni" to my ears. And fwiw, Willy the Shake bores me to tears. Joni is way better in my book. Fortunately we have them both so we don't have to choose. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 10:40:13 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: little green What I seem to recall is that Chuck was starting to get cold feet with all the responsibilities of raising a baby. And perhaps Joni may have realized that Chuck was not the one for her. After all, she went down the aisle with him saying to herself "I can get outta this". She took a gamble to see if she could make it work. Then there was the pressure coming from the nuns to hurry up and make a decision, because they told Joni that the older the baby gets, the harder the baby will be to place in a good home. This seems to be what cemented Joni's decision. It's such a sad - incredibly sad - situation. Mia _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 10:49:30 -0600 From: twoshoes@sasktel.net Subject: joni prejudice > From: "mia ortlieb" > It almost seems like there is an unspoken rule between some men that one is > not supposed to like Joni, even if one knows nothing of her. There's an attitude, reminds me of comments about "chick movies." As if Joni is a "chick singer." Once people have made this pre-judgment, they are not open anymore. They have already made up their minds. And there is definitely an attitude some people have, as if they know what Joni's music is all about and it's not for them -- when the only clue they have is from something they heard on the radio 20 years ago. She is so much more than just that, and I admit to feeling sorry for people who are not open to the beauty and depth of her music because of this prejudgment. > From: Ricw1217@aol.com > that that particular line - "he sends you a poem and she's lost to you" is > just plain sloppy. > no sacrilege! she's a great songwriter. but she ain't no willy the shake, > except maybe in her own mind. Couldn't disagree more. Where Joni puts her words makes meaningful sense to me, even if it isn't textbook perfect. "We look like our mothers did now when we were those kids' age" Someone commented once that "now" should've been at the beginning of this sentence instead of where Joni put it. But it's so PERFECT where it is, when she sings it! It gives a double punch, it juxtaposes time, it demonstrates that weird sense of existing in two times at once (which I feel more and more often as I get older -- as if time is going so fast that 20 years are compressed into 2 years). Joni's poems are not meant to be read, they are meant to be sung. Reading them without the music, without her unique phrasing, is not nearly as effective. > From: "michael o'malley" > originally scheduled for February 25 (Part 1) on CBC Life and Times has been > pushed back one week to March 4, with the sequel ( Part 2) scheduled to air on > March 11. Thanks for keeping us informed. This is one show I won't be missing. > From: Little Bird > oh my god. oh my god. I'm dying of embarrassment. > PLEEEEEEZE forgive me, forgive me, forgive me. > Oh my god. I'm off to die in a little corner now, all > red and overheated. Oh hell. At least there was Joni content of a sort and it was an HONEST mistake. That, we can live with. LOL You go, boy! I am almost through O'Brien's Joni book, really enjoying it. Somebody should have told O'Brien, though, that Bambi was a BOY deer. Sheesh. I thought EVERYBODY knew that! Kate http://xoetc.antville.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 08:53:42 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: pets' names I'm just not so sure about naming a Jack Russell "Coco." I knew a JR who was named "Dickens." Now THAT's a name for a JR. I would have thought Joni might have come up with something a bit more obscure. And, actually, I never pegged her as a dog person. I don't know why. Is this JC or NJC? Oh I don't know... My cats (female) are: Wilson - named after the family that built my house Tuckerman - named after Tuckerman's Ravine on Mount Washington (a rather dangerous place to ski) My sister's rabbit is Cocoa. See, now THAT fits :-) lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:07:45 EST From: Ricw1217@aol.com Subject: Re: joni, willy the shake & alanis bob bob bob...as my english professor said in college, if you don't like shakespeare, the problem's with you, not with shakespeare. or was he only making value judgements in a self important voice? ric ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 14:11:10 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: 8 & 1/2 weeks and counting down: American Masters special on USA's PBS April 02, 2003. Lama, who's tipping his hat today to all of the people who've passed into the next life in the pursuit of furthering our knowledge of pure science ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 14:44:56 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Joni lines Well, yeah. You're right. She's not saying one thing clearly. Exactly. But no, I am sure that there is *NO* obvious answer that you're missing. Again, you hit it squarely on the head. Joni's not the queen of disco lyrics. Here's a fill-in that she would never write: "Dance, dance, dance. Let's make some (__-_______)." Hint: two syllables That's clear but it also stinks. It's trivial. That's not what "A Case Of You" is about. It's about confusion; it's about having half a glass. She perfectly and concisely conveys confusion so it's not clear. But that's also why, when confusion enters your life, you come back to "A Case Of You" over and over and over. I don't know about you, but I have *TONS* of confusion in my life so I guess I need lyrics that capsulate that. Embrace the confusion, grasshopper, for within it lies paradox. Close enough? Taking the njc tag off the lyric thread, Lama ps, she's saying to herself that he's a table wine, not a fine wine. Since she's bright, smart, funny, enormously talented, gorgeous, and in her early 20s, he won't be around for long. She's almost ready to tell him to kiss off but as she reflects, she gets this song. Okay, there. Now I've ruined it with clarity. Ron in L.A. said, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I am really obtuse and/or the one line that I have always thought off-putting is the refrain from ACOY. JM says she could drink a case of this guy and still not be hammered. What gives? He is weak? He doesn't affect her even in large quantities? Is it that he is so much like her -- she knows him so well -- that he does not affect her? Is she saying he is Lite Beer -- good riddance? I am sure that there is some obvious answer I am missing, but I am not above confessing ignorance, at least tonight, anyway. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 14:55:29 -0600 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Joni Parody Came across this earlier today. Might have been posted already. Not to bring on the flame wars or get a pat on the back but Rush pretty much sucked. One minute of him and you felt sick to your stomach. "Big Yellow Taxi" Originally by Joni Mitchell "Big Fellow Nazi" Parody by William Tong instrumental intro He gave bad advice Won't shut up And barks a lot And he thinks he's swell - "magnifique" And a big right wing hot shot Rush will say, "I told you so" But he won't know that he's rot 'Til he's gone He gave bad advice Won't shut up And barks a lot He said, "Cut the trees And put 'em in a mausoleum" And told all his people To lock up tree huggers, not to free 'em Rush will say, "I told you so" But he won't know that he's rot 'Til he's gone He gave bad advice Won't shut up And barks a lot (instrumental break) Hey, waiter, waiter! Bring Limbaugh a B.L.T. now Tater tots and some apples Give him dessert and some grease (please!) Rush will say, "I told you so" But he won't know that he's rot 'Til he's gone He gave bad advice Won't shut up And barks a lot Late last night I heard his radio scam 'Cause this big fellow Nazi Is really a cold, cold man Rush will say, "I told you so" But he won't know that he's rot 'Til he's gone He gave bad advice Won't shut up And barks a lot ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 19:47:23 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: chucking i am almost 100% sure the reference is in the billboard chronicle when joni got the award. i distinctly remember joni herself saying in the interview that chuck mitchell had backed off. wallyK <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I certainly didn't mean to come off harsh about Chuck. It's none of my beeswax anyway, and Chuck always sounded to me like a nice enough guy, although a bit of a womanizer according to Joni's earliest assessments of him (noticing her legs before he noticed her hands on the guitar, & singing ballads in his act to attract girls). Who knows? He might've used the "other man's child" thing to escape a relationship that was making him increasingly more insecure as his wife's talent & popularity became much more than his own. Bob NP: Tori, "Scarlet's Walk" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 15:57:45 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Joni lines - A Case of You Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama) writes: > ps, she's saying to herself that he's a table wine, not a fine wine. Since > she's bright, smart, funny, enormously talented, gorgeous, and in her early > 20s, he won't be around for long. >>Ron in L.A. wrote: >>JM says she could drink a case of this guy and still not >> be hammered. What gives? "I could drink a case of you And still be on my feet" I always thought this meant Joni felt she couldn't get enough of him. Unlike a bottle or an entire case of wine, when once you reach the point of overconsumption it becomes painfully obvious you've had too much, with this guy, she could "consume" as much as she wanted and she'd still want more. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:18:49 -0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: best songs to impress non-Joni fans "mia ortlieb" wrote: > It almost seems like there is an unspoken rule between some men that one > is not supposed to like Joni, even if one knows nothing of her... I have found this so true. That whole male macho thing is just plain dumb! > I successfully converted my mom by playing the "Blue" cd... I played my mum BLUE and she asked if there was something wrong with her voice! LOL. This I found very funny. > None of my friends seem to like her either. Before I found this list, I used > to think maybe I was a freak... Same here. I just feel lucky that Joni's music gets through to me so all I say to them is "Lets have a round for these freaks..." I've been trying to get one of my friends into Joni's music for ages. I thought it would be easy seeing he is the same age as most of her fans. Boy was I wrong. I started off with C&S which was the most easiest to get into for me. He didn't really think much of it . The I tried the more folkier stuff and that didn't really grap him. Then I tried TI which he thought was ok. Then I tried HEJIRA which he really likes (especially 'Amelia' [even more so the TLOG vers]) and is even going to get the album! I don't think he'l ever like Joni as much as me though because he is drawn to conventional music too much which is so not Joni! Everyone is different but there should be a bit of everything in this list:- Marcie Both Sides Now Rainy Night House Most of BUE You Turn Me On... Free Man In Paris Raised On Robbery Trouble Child Amelia The Magdalene Laundries STEVE T ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:39:56 -0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: Joni in Record Collector That was the highest chart position the album got to in the UK. It was 25 in the US. I'm never quite sure on how the charts are put together but I do know that in the US airplay might go towards the score where here it is pure sells. I'm not sure if that is only for US singles and not albums. It's weird that alot of Joni's music has done slightly better over here considering she has always had a much bigger profile in the US. What's even stranger is that Joni has had 5 top 10 albums which have either been top 10 in the US or in the UK but never both! STEVE T "Dan Olson" wrote:- > Your post suggests an issue: What does it mean for an album to be #20 (what > an amazing achievment for DJRD in the UK; I'll bet it never reached that > here - see post below)? Is it the RATE at which they're selling (taken > over what period), and do I understand correctly that sales only "count" if > they're from major chains like Tower. What's up with that? > > At 09:22 PM 1/30/2003 +0000, you wrote: > >Has anyone seen the Record Collector mag yet? > >Right at the back they do a '25 years ago' thing and this month they > >mentioned that DJRD got to number 20 in the UK this month 25 years ago. > >There is also a photo of Joni holding a rose. I'm guessing it was used to > >promote the album when it came out. She looks so pretty. One of the best > >Joni photos I've seen! > > > >Stephen Toogood > > > >At 12:45 PM 1/22/2003 -0500, wrote: > >In the This Month is History section of jmdl, it > >tells us that THOSL peaked at #4 on the U.S. charts, > >and HEJIRA peaked at #13. That's amazing, huh? > >With no hits on the radio? Wow. > > > I had previously suggested that Hejira was the last album that the general > public bought; a new theory is that DJRD sold poorly because it was a > double album. Lots of double albums did/do poorly (the White album, > T'log); I believe there is too much new material to digest properly - It's > not the right "chunk" of new material. > Stephen Toogood "The snow falls like bolts of lace" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 21:49:14 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: joni is a sheep (or ram)! happy chinese new year everyone!!!!! i know how to say it in chinese but i don't how to write it, so just imagine me in my best madam sin clothes saying it in perfect mandarin. this is the year of the water sheep (or ram, as it is also called) it's 4071 in the chinese lunar calendar. 2002 was the year of the horse, whose main elements were fire and water, signifying great potential for conflict and unrest. this year's sheep element are water and earth, also conflicting but less destructive. we hope we hope we hope... this is joni's year, since she'll be turning 60 in november. as 60 is a multiple of 12, then joni was born in the year of the sheep. quite a strange combination. a scorpion and a sheep. the secrets of death and sex mixed with the frugality and the sentimentalism of the sheep. but then who can figure joni out? to all of you sheep (or rams) on the list, this is your time in the limelight in the 12-year cycle. be prosperous and happy. don't be too cruel to poor little rats like me! i promise i won't steal your lovers away from you and i won't get to the bargain basements before you! (what liars rats are!) in any case, lots of red envelopes with money for everybody! wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 20:26:36 EST From: Freddyb4@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #82 Where does Joni stand Helo you lot, I'm new to these pages, new to the internet, so I haven't a bloody clue what I'm doing, but here goes. I obviously like Joni Mitchell, that's how I found the rest of you. I fell in love with Joni while I watched her performance on BBC televisions "In Concert" 1970-71, this was a wonderful showcase for young talent, and it's power was the simplicity of the set, the singer, an instument, and most importantly their songs, so different from the over choroegraphed, sanitised pap, we are subjected to today. They refer to these concerts now as "unplugged" people say wow, that was different, but there are not enough of these kind of music programmes, why? I don't know. That series in the 70's introduced me to Elton John, James Taylor, Carol King as a solo artist, Cat Stevens, Melanie, Neil Young, but Joni Mitchell was awsome, and I doubt if any other female artist will ever create such a volume of original work. Yes it became a little less accessable, but could she have, or should she have, just stayed in that era of "flower power" No she was free to do her own thing, if people liked it, fine, if they didn't, oh well there's always the next album the next idea, her words were never going to dry up. For me there's a touch of nostalgia, I still play my LP's (albums) and remember being 21 and making love to my Danish girlfriend to the sound of Joni's gentle music, in soft candle light, Blue was the Album of the time, and "Case of you" summed up the way I felt about that girl. I would love to do that again, if there's a woman out there who likes the idea, well I'm armed and extremely dangerous, I could bring along a copy of William Tells Overture to liven things up, Hi Ho Silver ! Who was that masked man? If you haven't a clue what I'm on about, then you are too young to understand nostalgia. Who was it said "You're only as old as the woman you feel" not one of Joni's lines I think, it was the oldest swinger in town, Mike Harding, you lot in the US won't have a clue. Bye for now Forest Fred (Glos UK) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:09:46 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni lines - A Case of You In a message dated 2/1/2003 6:58:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, sp@olympus.net writes: > "I could drink a case of you > And still be on my feet" > On her '83 tour, she'd introduce the song as a "drinker's boast", an earlier version of "Hit Me With Your Best Shot". Or in other words..."I can deal with whatever you can throw at me, and I'll still be standing tall...." Bob NP: Everclear, "An American Girl" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 21:10:25 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Be Cool I'm sitting here playing the lyrics to "Be Cool" in my head, attempting to get my work done. Given the recent "over heated" events in my revealing little mishap, I thought it was time to cool down and keep things lite. So, I was wondering, what is "this game" that Joni is referring to in the song? "If there's one rule to this game Everybody's gonna name it's be cool..." Is it love? Is it showbiz? Or is it simply life? Is the "'em" in the song a reference to charming big-wig financiers or new warry lovers? - -Andrew, who is probably 50/50 fire and ice...most of the time! PS: The Travelogue version of this song is brilliant. It's probably my favourite from the album. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 02:01:08 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: February 2 2002: The Vancouver Sun reported that "Singer-songwriter Graham Nash celebrated his 60th birthday with friends and relatives amid a sea of pink. More than 150 guests attended Saturday's off-beat party at the Madonna Inn, including Stephen Stills and David Crosby, who wore a pink bunny costume." Coyote Rick writes: "[A few nights later] I was at the Madonna Inn for dinner. I asked questions, but the staff were all told they couldn't speak about the party. But, it was WILD, I was told... After some prodding, one of my pals told me he did see Joni and she looked to have a great time, very chatty. That's all he would say, except that she spent the night (but wouldn't divulge which theme room she chose)." More info: http://www.madonnainn.com/ - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 02:01:08 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: February 2 On February 2 the following item was published: 1968: "Folk singer's biggest wish" - Saskatoon StarPhoenix (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=430 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 02:48:57 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: RE: Joni lines - A Case of You Yeah, that's a valid take too. But having had the "brush-off" from the talented gorgeous type more often than not, I've always seen it the other way- she's not sated (HA!) by him- it's telling that in another song of the same vintage (HA!), the author says "if you want me, I'll be in the bar." Feeding, no doubt, where the hooks dangle from the bottom up and the other fishes fog up the bowl with jealous, lusty breathe. Lama Who told that joke a week ago? "A woman wearing a slinky black dress walks into a bar. She asks the bartender for a 'Double Entendre'...... So... he gave it to her." > From: Scott Price [mailto:sp@olympus.net] > I always thought this meant Joni felt she couldn't get enough of > him. Unlike > a bottle or an entire case of wine, when once you reach the point of > over consumption it becomes painfully obvious you've had too much, > with this > guy, she could "consume" as much as she wanted and she'd still want more. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #38 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)