From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #33 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, January 28 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 033 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni, Crosby [Thomas Ross ] more on Counting Crows BYT cover ["Tamsin Lucas" ] Re: Today in History: January 28 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #65 [MARBOLI79@aol.com] Re: Today in History: January 28 ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Symphony Space Event [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Gays' interest in Joni and splitting up the list further [Chris Marsh] Re: Symphony Space Event [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Today in History: January 28 [Susan Guzzi ] Re: Today in History: January 28 ["Bree Mcdonough" ] David Crosby-CPR concert (VLJC) ["Kate Bennett" ] one more thing... [] Re: TodSometimes it seems I let my favorites sit too long without playing tay in History: January 28 ["Donna Binkl] Down To You [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Down To You [Susan Guzzi ] Re: Today in History: January 28 [Randy Remote ] Re: Today in History: January 28 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Down To You ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Down To You ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: For the Joni Only List [KJHSF@aol.com] C&S [Merk54@aol.com] Another take on Jim's question. [johnirving ] Re: For the Joni Only List [Chris Marshall ] Re: For the Joni Only List [Catherine McKay ] Re: For the Joni Only List [Catherine McKay ] Re: Re: Down To You [courtandspark@earthlink.net] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #69 [BRYAN8847@aol.com] re: Joni's gay fans [Bruce Kimerer ] re: Joni's gay fans ["Lori Fye" ] RE: the GAY card ["Heather" ] Joni's gay fans???? [vince ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 04:57:51 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas Ross Subject: Joni, Crosby I heard JM sing 'Summertime' with Brian Blade 2-3 summers ago near Bethel, NY. The rhythm was LOST (I've played this song professionally for decades!)! but Blade played some pretty cymbal colors and it came off as a very unswinging and impressionistic version. Crosby sponsored my first album, Horse of Stone, and I've always been grateful to him for it. CPR is a solid band although vocally not too strong, at least the time I heard them. Pevar and Raymond are both monster players. Croz's writing is good as usual. Tom Ross Mijazi Music (518) 372-2611 http://www.tom.rossweb.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:18:41 +0000 From: "Tamsin Lucas" Subject: more on Counting Crows BYT cover Being as I listen to Radio 2 most of the day (the only music my colleagues and I can usually agree on) I am hearing the Counting Crows/Vanessa Carlton version a couple of times a day - Ken Bruce just played it and commented "an improvement on the original if you ask me..." at the end. _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://messenger.msn.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:39:49 -0000 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: Gays' interest in Joni and splitting up the list further I hope I am right in thinking this post has enough Joni content, I first put NJC on top but then took it out - do tell me if you think I'm wrong! Chris Marshall wrote: I've spent an unhealthy amount of time navel-gazing, analyzing what's going on in my head, analyzing what I want out of life, analyzing my emotions, and so on. I've come to the conclusion that Joni appeals to a large amount of GLBT folk because many of these people have been through the same process, are going through it, or are aware that they should, and end up empathising so strongly with her lyrics. Anyone with me on this one? :) - --Chris Marshall My reply: yes Chris, I'm very much with you on that one. At least in this way: I think we are all pretty introspective and emotionally intelligent on this list, and that is one of the things that keeps us together. In fact, it is because I identify so much with the struggle most gays have to go through (because I have had my own struggles for different reasons) that I am probably, if anything, "prejudiced" in favour of gays. I feel that by being honest about their sexuality in spite of so much opposition, they have often reached a maturity and understanding of life that appeals to me. And I am convinced it is this type of (gay or otherwise) person that discovers this list and sticks with it, because it really suits them. And Joni's texts affirm that. And speaking for myself, what attracted me most to Joni's music to start off with (and probably still does) is the music itself, not the lyrics, wonderful as they are. Albums like Hejira and THOSL first of all draw me for their sound. It is a subtle, complex sound, full of moods which again will attract a more sensitive sort of person, in my opinion. But on the other hand, I think if you did a survey of people who have bought Joni Mitchell records over the years, I think the gay percentage will be much lower than on this list, because I think her music is not of the typical "gay diva" type which seems to attract the biggest gay followings. I could well be wrong, but that's my impression. And quickly something else: I agree with Patrick Leader, I would hate to see people using further subsections of lists to discuss certain subjects. Quite simply: I would never get to them, and be very sorry to be missing out! This does not mean I really do read everything, I do need to sometimes scan and scroll through, but at least I know WHAT I am missing! I would hope that everybody who sees subjects of no interest could just press the delete button without too much bother. This is not an argument against the JC-NJC split, that seems to make good sense if some people want to cut back that drastically what they receive, but for those of us who have agreed to accept wider posts, I think we will just get into cliques and disappear if we go off on sub-lists! Lots of love to you al, Lieve. ______________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:43:29 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Gay's interest in Joni, vljc I believe gay's as a group are more educated and into the arts, so it's only logical that a fair share would be attracted to the queen. I mean it, not trying to kiss 'ass' here. My close gay friend hates Joni, but that's more to tease me than anything else. He loves opera, divas and Aretha (females only). Last time I showed him PWWAM, he joked that Joni is so wrinkled now that perhaps I could have a chance! I've been enduring this kind of jokes from him for 25 years, so now I can appreciate Murph's humor. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:27:16 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Today in History: January 28 > 1974: The album "Court and Spark" was released Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday to you Happy Birthday, Court & Spaaaaaaaaark, Happy Birthday to you!!!! Almost 30, yet with the playfulness of youth and the wisdom of age. I was 'aware' of Joni Mitchell prior to C&S, but it wasn't until I heard "Help Me", "Raised On Robbery", "Free Man In Paris" on the FM radio (and played repeatedly in my High School cafeteria on our own radio station WSHS) that I knew that there SOMETHING more to this singer/songwriter named Joni Mitchell. So I bought the LP, and holy cow!! The best stuff wasn't even getting played on the radio!...the run from "People's Parties" to "Down To You" just blew my 16 year-old mind. I didn't understand it, but knew that I wanted to. I DID know, however, that sonically this record was a pure work of art. We can all probably recite them by HEART in order, but let's look at the tracklisting: Court And Spark Help Me Free Man In Paris People's Parties The Same Situation Car On A Hill Down To You Just Like This Train Raised On Robbery Trouble Child Twisted There's not a false nanosecond on this record! And it was one where Joni's tastes and the record-buying public's tastes were perfectly aligned. Anyway, thanks to Joni for this 'birthday present'...and to this community where I can write this sort of stuff and be understood. Bob, flashing back to Chris O'Neill's basement where we would play C&S over & over... NP: Kevin Gilbert, "Tea For One" (live) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:28:37 EST From: MARBOLI79@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #65 non, je plaisantais ! je voulais voir si quelqu'un allait riagir, vu que ga parle pas mal anglais par ici. La preuve... non, je corrige, let me rectify : JONI MITCHELL'S SIMPLY THE BEST ! VIVE JONI ! LONGUE CARRIERE A JONI ! MERCI POUR TOUT, JONI ! EN FRANCE AUSSI, ON S'EMBRASSE SUR LES AVENUES ! EN FRANCE AUSSI, ON AIME JONI ! I JUST WISHED SHE WAS KNOWN HERE IN FRANCE A BIT MORE, THAT'S ALL SORRY FOR THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND FRENCH ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:52:33 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Today in History: January 28 Amazingly...is sounds as fresh and as good as it did thirty years ago. (I loved you thirty years ago) I get spine tingling chills even now..just thinking about that very first piano note. Not a wasted note ..breath anywhere... Classic in the true sense of the word! Bree >Happy Birthday to you >Happy Birthday, Court & Spaaaaaaaaark, >Happy Birthday to you!!!! > >Almost 30, yet with the playfulness of youth and the wisdom of age. I was >'aware' of Joni Mitchell prior to C&S, but it wasn't until I heard "Help >Me", "Raised On Robbery", "Free Man In Paris" on the FM radio (and played >repeatedly in my High School cafeteria on our own radio station WSHS) that >I knew that there SOMETHING more to this singer/songwriter named Joni >Mitchell. > >Anyway, thanks to Joni for this 'birthday present'...and to this community >where I can write this sort of stuff and be understood. > >Bob, flashing back to Chris O'Neill's basement where we would play C&S over >& over... > >NP: Kevin Gilbert, "Tea For One" (live) _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:54:40 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: Today in History: January 28 - ->>Happy Birthday to you >>Happy Birthday, Court & Spaaaaaaaaark, >>Happy Birthday to you!!!! >> I did not get Court and Spark until April of '74, and none of my friends liked it, except for Kim who turned me on to Joni's lyrics for that past year in HS.(I will always be grateful to her for that.) I used to lay down on the floor with a pillow in front of my sister's stereo and close my eyes and let my mind dive into those sonics... notes and words and meanings... I eneded up doing a huge painting of Joni from that picture inside C & S for Kim for graduation... Steve - -- Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:03:44 -0500 From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Re: Bob's epiphany "my old man"...and "for free" In a message dated 1/26/2003 1:15:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, hvnphun16@hotmail.com writes: > then plot out the notes from Howard's transcription to the > piano keys > and "magic" will happen! I must have missed this. How does someone get a copy of Howard's Transcription of For Free? Thanks. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:17:37 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Bob's epiphany "my old man"...and "for free" In a message dated 1/28/2003 11:04:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, Merk54@aol.com writes: > How does someone get a copy of Howard's Transcription of For Free? > Jack, go to : http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/forfree-hw-p.cfm Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:18:38 -0500 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: Symphony Space Event While I was away on vacation 2 weeks ago somebody posted about an event at Symphony Space in New York in late March entitled "Wall To Wall Joni Mitchell" - - it's free, and begins at 11am. I'm just wondering if anyone knows exactly what the event IS; the link that was in the original post leads to a rather cryptic description, and I'm thinking of taking a (very) early morning bus down to NYC for it. Before I get my ass up at the crack of dawn and ride on a nasty bus for 4 hours, I'd like to know a little more about what I can expect. Is it just a really long tribute show?? Any ideas gang? - -Chris, unable to voice his opinion on the JMDL without seemingly pissing people off. NP: Bjork, Venus As A Boy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:21:59 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Symphony Space Event Chris (who did not piss me off ; ) ), I don't know many details, but found out that Luciana Souza (who's latest album is on my best for 2002 list) is in the line-up! So I did a search to see if I could find anyone else and came up with: David Krakauer Mingus Big Band Greg Osby Is anyone familiar with these artists? For an idea about what a wall to wall concert is like here's a link to a review of the Miles Davis wall to wall: http://www.jazztimes.com/live_walltowall-miles.cfm I'm thinking of going down to NYC myself! Jenny - --- Christopher Treacy wrote: > While I was away on vacation 2 weeks ago somebody > posted about an event at > Symphony Space in New York in late March entitled > "Wall To Wall Joni Mitchell" > - it's free, and begins at 11am. > > I'm just wondering if anyone knows exactly what the > event IS; the link that > was in the original post leads to a rather cryptic > description, and I'm > thinking of taking a (very) early morning bus down > to NYC for it. Before I get > my ass up at the crack of dawn and ride on a nasty > bus for 4 hours, I'd like > to know a little more about what I can expect. Is it > just a really long > tribute show?? > > Any ideas gang? > -Chris, unable to voice his opinion on the JMDL > without seemingly pissing > people off. > > NP: Bjork, Venus As A Boy Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:33:46 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: Gays' interest in Joni and splitting up the list further Apologies for quoting quite a bit here, and I hope this is still considered "JC" (if not, ack, I'm in trouble :) Lieve said: > I hope I am right in thinking this post has enough Joni content, I > first put > NJC on top but then took it out - do tell me if you think I'm wrong! > > Chris Marshall wrote: I've spent an unhealthy amount of time > navel-gazing, > analyzing what's going on in my head, analyzing what I want out of > life, > analyzing my emotions, and so on. I've come to the conclusion that Joni > appeals to a large amount of GLBT folk because many of these people > have > been through the same process, are going through it, or are aware that > they > should, and end up empathising so strongly with her lyrics. Anyone > with me > on this one? :) - --Chris Marshall > > My reply: yes Chris, I'm very much with you on that one. At least in > this > way: I think we are all pretty introspective and emotionally > intelligent on > this list, and that is one of the things that keeps us together. Lieve hit the nail on the head in a way I'd meant to, but failed to get across... I also think that we are *all* pretty emotionally tuned-in here, even if that doesn't mean emotionally sorted. The extra part of my theory is that a greater *proportion* of gay people are tuned in to their emotions than straight people, hence the apparent gay vs. straight imbalance on this list. There, that's what I meant to say first time around... - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer", http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:04:37 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Symphony Space Event In a message dated 1/28/2003 12:21:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, jrgoodspeed@yahoo.com writes: > For an idea about what a wall to wall concert is like > here's a link to a review of the Miles Davis wall to > wall: My take on it is that the 'wall to wall' concept tries to be as multi-media as it can be given the subject...I studied last year's schedule for the Richard Rodgers trib and it was part symphonic music, part spoken word, part film and mostly songs...the schedules for past events are pretty easily found once you're on the web site. I'm planning on being there - if it's nothing more than a 12-hour tribute concert, that's fine with me. Anything else will be gravy, and who knows - Joni gets to NYC from time to time and may show up. Bob NP: Kevin Gilbert, "From Here to There" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:11:53 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Today in History: January 28 Sometimes it seems I let my favorites sit too long without playing them (Blue, C&S FTR etc). But then I put them on and they are as fresh as they day I originally bought them. Lately it has been C&S and I am loving "Car On A Hill" all over again like crazy man! AND everything else on there as well, but "Car On A Hill" is it for me right now! Yes CLASSIC Bree, but more so even TIMELESS! Oh by the weekend it'll be something else! But who cares, there will always be some Joni on the top of my list! Peace, Susan - --- Bree Mcdonough wrote: > Amazingly...is sounds as fresh and as good as it did thirty years ago. (I > loved you thirty years ago) I get spine tingling chills even now..just > thinking about that very first piano note. Not a wasted note ..breath > anywhere... Classic in the true sense of the word! > > Bree > > > ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:36:58 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Today in History: January 28 > Lately it has been C&S and I am loving "Car On A Hill" all over again >like crazy man! AND everything else on there >as well, but "Car On A Hill" is it for me right now! Yes CLASSIC >Bree, >but more so even TIMELESS! Timeless..yes.. isn't she though. Nothing sounds dated that Joni has done. Or is it that just I love her music so? Have you ever told us your favorite Joni album? I know you prefer her early stuff. Or are you like many here you just can't decide? Does it just depend what mood you are in on any given day? Gun to head..mine are: Hejira..HOSL..C&S.. I hate doing this..listing my favorites.. because it's almost like I'm discounting the rest of her work. Which I love almost equally too. What a delicious dilemma Siquomb has given me. Bree >Oh by the weekend it'll be something else! But who cares, there will >always be some Joni on the >top of my list! > >Peace, >Susan > > >--- Bree Mcdonough wrote: > > Amazingly...is sounds as fresh and as good as it did thirty years ago. >(I > > loved you thirty years ago) I get spine tingling chills even now..just > > thinking about that very first piano note. Not a wasted note ..breath > > anywhere... Classic in the true sense of the word! > > > > Bree > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:22:15 -0500 From: Subject: the GAY card Others have articulated up what attracted THIS gay guy to La Joni. Wrote Jerry: her intelligence, her perseverance, her beauty, her, her originality, her stunning talent. Wrote: Lori: her confessional writing, her nonjudgmental outlook. Wrote Chris: her talk of love. Wrote Andrew: her honesty, her joy, her recognition and articulation of sadness, her celebration of life and learning, her understanding and creation of art. I would add: some of us gay types have exquisite TASTE! ;-) MICHAEL in Toronto P.S. I have to agree with Andrew: most gay people I know are either indifferent to Joni or openly contemptuous -- just like most straight people I know. (sigh) As always, I'm convinced that those of us who love her so much (male of female, gay or straight, white or black or any other colour) are simply more highly evolved. ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:26:48 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: David Crosby-CPR concert (VLJC) thanks for the concert report jimmy & david...glad to hear you both enjoyed the band...so sorry to hear about your experience of crosby's attitude...its too bad because it only works against him (or any performer) not to be more gracious to those who are fans even if he is having a bad day (which it sounds like he was) from what i know of his personality he is always honest to a fault & never pulls any punches...so when he's not in the mood to chat or concerned about a sound during check, well i would not expect him to mince words... this isn't an excuse of the kind of behavior you witnessed of course, especially knowing what a kind & considerate guy you are...& he could have excused himself from speaking with you further in a kinder way (if he wasn't feeling up for it) but i'm not sure that is his personality... HOWEVER, approaching a performer to talk before a show rather that after the show is almost sure to be a very different scenario...& i've heard that crosby is very approachable during after show meet & greats when he is geared up for it (same with nash...stills & young on the other hand usually do not participate...) as nice as it was for the club owner to let you in, perhaps he should have consulted with the performers on whether this was okay with them because like randy says, sound check is when they are working that time can be EXTREMELY stressful if things aren't sounding good... well that's my 2 cents for what it's worth.. ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:29:14 -0500 From: Subject: one more thing... Earlier today, I sat down and listened to one of my favourite "runs" in T'LOG (these songs seem to belong together): CHINESE, CHEROKEE, DAWNTREADER, RICHARD, CIRCLE GAME (I've always skipped BORDERLINE, even on TI -- it does nothing for me). And I have to say: the depth of pure EMOTION in Joni's performances of these songs is really quite staggering -- almost impossible to listen to if you're not in the right mood. The whole album is like that to me: grand, heavy (mostly). monumental. I have a feeling I will love it more and more as the years go by. MICHAEL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:30:39 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: TodSometimes it seems I let my favorites sit too long without playing tay in History: January 28 Guzzi said: Sometimes it seems I let my favorites sit too long without playing them (Blue, C&S FTR etc).album - I do the same thing, I love C&S - Down to You has always been my favorite on that album.... You go down to the pick up station craving warmth and beauty You settle for less than fascination, a few drinks later you're not so choosy Then the closing lights strip off the shadows of this strange new flesh you've found Clutching the night to you like a fig leaf You hurry - to the blackness, and the blankets, to lay down an impression And your lonliness........ It's such a sad song. Always makes me teary...who hasn't ever felt that way themselves at some point? db > ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:54:26 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Down To You In a message dated 1/28/2003 3:30:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, djb@binkleybarfield.com writes: > You settle for less than fascination, a few drinks later > you're not so > choosy I'd be real hard pressed to pick a fave from C&S - Down to You might very well be it, but the line above always bugs me a little. "Less than fascination" would signify that that the person is already going to compromise in regards to who they pick up, then the second half of the couplet pretty much says the same thing. I suppose it's saying that after a couple more drinks the standards have gotten even lower than they were to begin with, it just has always sounded a tad awkward to me. Bob NP: Steve Goldberger & The Fringe Locals, "You Turn Me On I'm A Radio" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:11:17 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Down To You Hey Donna Baby! I love this song as well - "Down To You" - my favorite line is: In the morning there are lovers in the street they look so high, you brush against a stranger and you both apologize. Old friends seem indifferent, you must have brought that on, Old bonds have broken down, Love is gone. It reminds me of my younger days and living that life! By the way Bree - I'll say it one more time - BLUE baby - that's the one - my number one! And the worst I don't care what you say is "DED" - EWWWW! Peace, Susan - --- Donna Binkley wrote: > Guzzi said: > Sometimes it seems I let my favorites sit too long without playing them > (Blue, C&S FTR etc).album - > > > I do the same thing, I love C&S - Down to You has always been my > favorite on that album.... > > You go down to the pick up station craving warmth and beauty > You settle for less than fascination, a few drinks later you're not so > choosy > Then the closing lights strip off the shadows of this strange new flesh > you've found > Clutching the night to you like a fig leaf > You hurry - to the blackness, and the blankets, to lay down an > impression > And your lonliness........ > > It's such a sad song. Always makes me teary...who hasn't ever felt > that way themselves at some point? > > db > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > > This message has been scanned by the E250. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:22:01 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Today in History: January 28 SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: C&S, So I bought the LP, and holy cow!! There's not a false nanosecond on this record! Agreed, it's a classic from start to finish. All this and Cheech and Chong, too. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:44:05 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Today in History: January 28 In a message dated 1/28/2003 4:22:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, guitarzan@direcpc.com writes: > All this and Cheech and > Chong, too. AND Crosby-Nash, AND Jose Feliciano, AND Robbie Robertson, AND the Jazz Crusaders, AND The LA Express...man, EVERYBODY wanted to be on this record, and who could blame 'em! :~) It was also released on Quadrophonic, and 1/2 speed mastered Nautilus, and Gold CD. Obviously a work prized for not only its achievements in lyricism but in its sound achievement as well. All I know is that I wore out an LP AND a cassette. Bob NP: Steve Goldberger & The Fringe Locals, "It Takes A Lot To Laugh, It Takes A Train to Cry" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:24:46 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Down To You >> You settle for less than fascination, a few drinks later >> you're not so choosy > "Less than fascination" would signify that that the person is already > going to compromise in regards to who they pick up, then the second > half of the couplet pretty much says the same thing. I suppose it's > saying that after a couple more drinks the standards have gotten even > lower than they were to begin with, it just has always sounded a tad > awkward to me. Having worked in several bars and having hung out in far too many of them, those lines have always made perfect sense to me. Remember, they're preceded by "You go down to the pick up station, Craving warmth and beauty ..." You're not craving fascination, just warmth and beauty. Mostly though, you wanna get laid. So, after a few drinks, something far below than "fascination" is acceptable. I've seen it happen at least a hundred times. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:25:25 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Down To You >By the way Bree - I'll say it one more time - BLUE baby - that's the one - >my number one! And the >worst I don't care what you say is "DED" - EWWWW! Oh..Blue..now I remember. Mack is the one that will rip your tongue out for trashing DED. I have found.. just recently... a liking for it. And is growing on me with each new listen. Bree >Peace, >Susan > >--- Donna Binkley wrote: > > Guzzi said: > > Sometimes it seems I let my favorites sit too long without playing them > > (Blue, C&S FTR etc).album - > > > > > > I do the same thing, I love C&S - Down to You has always been my > > favorite on that album.... > > > > You go down to the pick up station craving warmth and beauty > > You settle for less than fascination, a few drinks later you're not so > > choosy > > Then the closing lights strip off the shadows of this strange new flesh > > you've found > > Clutching the night to you like a fig leaf > > You hurry - to the blackness, and the blankets, to lay down an > > impression > > And your lonliness........ > > > > It's such a sad song. Always makes me teary...who hasn't ever felt > > that way themselves at some point? > > > > db > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > > > > > This message has been scanned by the E250. >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:31:36 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: For the Joni Only List In a message dated 1/27/2003 4:08:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, sl.m@shaw.ca writes: > The only real hostility I've seen on this list has been in posts from > Joni-only people, pissed off because someone forgot to put NJC in the > subject line. Hi Sarah! I really don't think the anger comes because of people who occasionally forget. I think the hostility comes when members decide that their own political beliefs must be heard by all, and these posts are even prefaced with something like "I realize this is NJC, but it's an issue that concerns us all etc., etc." That kind of presumption angers those of us who don't use this wonderful service for political discussion. And my perception of members is that none of us would mind someone exploiting the NJC rule to proffer info about a lister who needs our help or prayers because of some difficulty or something like that. But 99% of the time, the discussion is political in nature, and though sometimes someone simply forgets, some members have intentionally elected to initiate a dialogue about politics, war, etc. Members who purposefully break the NJC rule are acting in a hostile manner by their actions. This includes those who insert some non-related piece of pithy Joni content in what is clearly a political post. That is the real hostility, here. Certainly there are times when posts are accidentally sent without the NJC label, and, speaking for the Joni-onlies, its very easy to forgive and delete in these instances. But, when you are seeing a hostile reply, it's not someone overreacting to a genuine accident. It is someone reacting to an intentional omission by a member who has done this before and, despite being gently reminded, decides to do it again. When I first joined the list a few years ago, it was a lot easier to just go through and delete the untagged posts. It still is easy to do when they are clearly accidental. But you do begin to recognize those posts that are intentionally sent to all in order to disseminate a person's political ideology. It is especially irritating when their viewpoints on the unasked-for issues are different from yours. Because I disagree with much of the political discussion that goes on, I know that I don't want this service to involve politics, and when someone intentionally overrides that decision, it does infuriate me. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:37:32 -0500 From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: C&S Return-Path: Received: from aol.com (mow-m24.webmail.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by air-id11.mx.aol.com (v90_r2.5) with ESMTP id MAILINID111-0128172556; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:25:56 -0500 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:25:56 -0500 From: Merk54@aol.com To: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: C&S MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <6E9909A0.2316430A.0004E5E0@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit One of the things about C&S that stands out for me is it's cohesion (if that's the right word). It is the one Joni that I always play start to finish, without exception. To me, it is more like one extended song. While I typically listen to a cd in it's entirety, I'm not above throwing on DJRD just to hear the title track, or Overture / Cotton Avenue, for example. However, C&S is always played all the way through. I won't even play it in my car stereo, unless I'm going on a long trip and know I can listen to the whole thing. In honor of it's birthday, I know what I will be listening to tonight. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 02:55:38 -0600 From: johnirving Subject: Another take on Jim's question. So, the question Jimbo asks is why should Gays be interested in Joni when she's so up front heterosexual? And I think to myself? Good question, yes. What could possibly be in it for me to listen to this blatantly heterosexual woman? Why should I follow the adventures of Capt. Picard, who is so blatantly heterosexual? How can I relate to a movie where Aliens have come to distroy the earth and the lead characters are off chasing skirt ? -Is this really what would be on the mind of someone faced with the end of the world??? Or I turn on a ballgame or tennis match and the tv crew is panning up to adoring wives and girlfriends unabashed in shoving his heterosexuality in my face. What do I care who Brad Johnson is shlepping? I just want to watch the game. From GunSmoke and the Lucy Show to the Simpsons and Allie McBeal, no matter what channel I turn to, no matter what hour of the day, it's all the same: Night in, night out, movie after movie, tv show upon tv show, radio song after radio song. - -Quoting the character from Parting Glances, "Why are heterosexuals so narcissitic that 99% of everything you see has to be about them.?" And somehow I find a way through it all to find there's much I can relate to. And if Jimbo were as magnanimous as he says he is, I'd like him to wander over to the gay section of his local Borders and try the same. He might find the human experience of others are much like his own and there is richness he can absorb an learn from. If I can relate to Joni, I bet he can relate to Edmund White if he wanted to. I would even try and resist being "taken aback" that he was standing there... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:02:59 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: For the Joni Only List On Tuesday, Jan 28, 2003, at 22:31 Europe/London, KJHSF@aol.com wrote: > I really don't think the anger comes because of people who > occasionally > forget. Well, the problem is that there have been times when an accidental untagged post has elicited an angry response. Ditto when someone's replied to an accidentally untagged post and accidentally forgotten to check whether it should have an NJC tag added. And so on. It's horribly easy to see a thread that interests you, dive in with the reply button, and snowball one accidental untagged NJC post into a whole slew, before it gets an NJC tag wrestled back onto the subject line. It's no-one's *fault*, and it certainly doesn't deserve an angry response, so why do we feel like we're trading on eggshells here in the NJC camp? (OK, OK, *I* feel like I'm trading on eggshells, and I know I'm not alone here. And I've only ever posted NJC messages without an NJC tag accidentally, never with purpose.) I sometimes wonder if a better solution would be to explicitly mark Joni content posts with JC. That way, joni-onlies would never get NJC content *unless* a thread gets taken off-topic. And even if a JC post goes out without its tag, with luck, a respondant will quote the original with their reply and add a JC tag in the process, ensuring that the Joni-onlies get to see the response *and* the original message. Of course, with all these JC tags flying about, outsiders may just think we're a bunch of bible thumpers. (With apologies to genuine bible thumpers... this is now tongue in cheek. My own cheek, I should add.) > But you do begin to recognize those posts that are intentionally > sent to all in order to disseminate a person's political ideology. >It is especially irritating when their viewpoints on the unasked-for > issues are different from yours. Because I disagree with much of > the political discussion that goes on, I know that I don't want > this service to involve politics Forgive me for asking this, but... when a message comes through to the Joni-only list, with a subject line that should be NJC, and, say, is clearly political, isn't the delete key the answer? You don't *have* to read every message - vast numbers of us on the NJC list do not read every message, but just surf on by. The politics doesn't interest me either, but I just skip the posts. I could read them, no doubt some of them would make me angry, but I know that, and don't read them. Ergo, I don't get angry. Sorry if that sounds patronising: it's really not meant to be, but I don't understand why you get infuriated when you have a choice. Ye gods. I'm getting analytical. I'll stop now. Regards, - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:17:17 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: For the Joni Only List --- KJHSF@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/27/2003 4:08:33 PM Eastern > Standard Time, sl.m@shaw.ca > writes: > > > The only real hostility I've seen on this list has > been in posts from > > Joni-only people, pissed off because someone > forgot to put NJC in the > > subject line. > > Hi Sarah! > I really don't think the anger comes because of > people who occasionally > forget. I think the hostility comes when members > decide that their own > political beliefs must be heard by all, and these > posts are even prefaced > with something like "I realize this is NJC, but it's > an issue that concerns > us all etc., etc." That kind of presumption angers > those of us who don't use > this wonderful service for political discussion. Even as one who gets everything, njc and all, and often enjoys the njc stuff more than the jc (blasphemy?) I appreciate and understand this. It would totally piss me off. If I had signed up for joni-only and someone tried to do my thinking for me, and decides what they thought was in my best interest, it would irritate the hell out of me. When you consider that most people (I don't know the percentages but every so often Les posts them) are on the *whole* list (whether as digest or as individual posts), anything you post is going to reach most of us anyway. Whether or not someone reads it is another story. I've been deleting the stuff about war like mad. Likewise if a particular poster seems to be posting about the same thing all the time and it's not a subject that I'm interested in, I will sort either by topic or by sender and delete without reading anything that looks like one of those. In the process, I may delete without reading one or two gems, but that's my choice. Sometimes it gets too busy around here as it is. Most of the jc-only people who post reminders do so politely in any case; sometimes tersely but rarely rudely. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:21:11 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: For the Joni Only List This sounds like the most logical solution to the whole thing. --- Chris Marshall wrote: > I sometimes wonder if a better solution would be to > explicitly > mark Joni content posts with JC. That way, > joni-onlies would > never get NJC content *unless* a thread gets taken > off-topic. > > And even if a JC post goes out without its tag, with > luck, > a respondant will quote the original with their > reply and > add a JC tag in the process, ensuring that the > Joni-onlies > get to see the response *and* the original message. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:00:59 -0600 (CST) From: courtandspark@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Re: Down To You Bree wrote: Oh..Blue..now I remember. Mack is the one that will rip your tongue out for trashing DED. Well, my sweet friend, I think that is a little severe. lol. Again, apples and oranges. While it has often been said/written that others just 'don't get it' when referring to Joni and her music, I have come to the conclusion that some just 'don't get it' when it comes to DED. The earlier posts mentioned timeless(ness). I would nominate DED for that award since it seems, to me, that it could have been written today; seems to be right on in the situation that we find ourselves. 'while madmen sit up building bombs.' One would suppose that could be Hussein yet I feel as if it could very easily be those in our White House right now. 'Ethiopia.' Now, in Africa, different country, same situation. This is the album of which finally convinced me of the genius of Joni Mitchell. I read the RS review posted by Les the other day and was amazed at how that person didn't 'get it.' This album, that I listen to yet again, has it all, in my opinion. Political, personal, romance, passion, self-introspection. I literally cannot get enough. Last eve listened to HOSL again. Almost had to force myself to sit through it as I found it boring!!! The music wasn't soothing and moved me not; its saving grace was Joni's lyrics. But, again, just my opinion. mack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:08:46 -0500 From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #69 > It seems to me, if I understand correctly, that what > you are saying is that our genes presdeestine us to be > heterosexual, mainly, but some of carry genese that > although they do the same, are slightly different in > that the environment can makes those genes produce > homsexuality I don't know how this discussion started and I hesitate to jump into the middle of it without reading the entire thread...but, my two-cents-worth is: sexual orientation is not a result of environmental factors. This is just my experience talking, and my feelings: how could feelings so deep and powerful (to the core, baby) be the result of environmental factors? It has go to beyond that. And anyway, as I've long said .... "if you're looking for a cause, then you're looking for a cure." I really don't care what the "cause" is. I am perfectly happy as I am and don't need to the reason or need to prove anything about it...though I realize others feel differently, and perhaps for good reasons. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:17:41 -0500 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: re: Joni's gay fans Very interesting question, indeed. Why does Joni seem to have a preponderance of gay fans? I say 'seem' because there's no way for me to really know that one way or the other. The number of gay participants in this discussion list may have as much to do with the atmosphere and environment of the list as it does with Joni. Also, gay word of mouth about the list may have resulted in the gay demo here. But still, an intriguing question that has made me look back on why I have loved her work since my first introduction to it. I think there is something there thematically that resonated with me as a gay man (though back then I had yet to acknowledge that fact to myself). Some of the threads in her work that did that: The man that got away -- The constant looking for love that never works out. I remember back in the LOTC, Blue, FTR and C&S days Joni's tumultuous ever-shifting love life was common knowledge among me and my friends. Her persona to me back then was brilliant artist, maybe a little unstable and neurotic (Twisted), who loves and loses yet is never a victim and always moves on. I think this may have told me that it was OK, even admirable, maybe even essential for making great art, to go through life without a lasting love relationship -- a fear of mine at the time. Restless, Rootless, Reckless -- The twin themes of outward and inward traveling, traveling, traveling certainly struck a chord with one who was searching for self in a very fundamental way. And our 'reckless daughter' strikingly verbalized what were some of the experiences of, at least, this gay man -- as recently posted to the list in the lyrics of Down to You: You go down to the pick up station craving warmth and beauty You settle for less than fascination, a few drinks later you're not so choosy Then the closing lights strip off the shadows of this strange new flesh you've found Clutching the night to you like a fig leaf You hurry - to the blackness, and the blankets, to lay down an impression And your loneliness.. OUCH! Any gay man on this list has been THERE, I wager. And that was before we knew that sex could kill more than our spirit. It killed us. Of course, this all may be hogwash. Trying to fit theory to practice after the fact. I mean, I'm as big a fan of Bob Dylan as I am of Joni Mitchell -- and what's the big gay resonator in Dylan's work? I'm sure I could invent something. Bruce PS. I don't believe that TRAGIC is the essential component that makes for a gay female icon. To the contrary, I think it's strength (and superior talent, but that's a given). What makes a Judy Garland or a Barbra Streisand or even a Joni Mitchell especially appealing is the fact that she defies the sexist societal stereotype of female weakness without a man/husband to supply the supposed stability/strength she lacks on her own. As a gay man I can identify with these women because I too have been misjudged by society as somehow being less than strong, less than complete, less than a real man. Our divas showed them wrong. So can I. Long live the Divas! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:18:56 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: re: Joni's gay fans > OUCH! Any gay man on this list has been THERE, I wager. And that was > before we knew that sex could kill more than our spirit. It killed us. And ... "Sex Kills" Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:39:39 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: the GAY card Finally! A good, logical assessment. Heather - an evolved lover of Joni's music ;-) ________________ MICHAEL in Toronto P.S. I have to agree with Andrew: most gay people I know are either indifferent to Joni or openly contemptuous -- just like most straight people I know. (sigh) As always, I'm convinced that those of us who love her so much (male of female, gay or straight, white or black or any other colour) are simply more highly evolved. ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:42:41 -0500 From: vince Subject: Joni's gay fans???? Does Joni actually have a preponderance of gay fans? Who the hell knows? Does Joni have more gay fans than CSN&Y, or Britney Spears, or N'Sync, or Jay-Z or Bryn Terfel or Etta James or B2K or Metallica? I have no clue. There has been no statistical sampling or research that I have seen. Has the overall fan base of Joni's fans been compared to what the research tells us about the population of fans who are on an internet discussion list? Or an internet discussion list devoted to music? Do we even know what the actual percentage of the world's population is that is gay/lesbian? Have we compared the demographics of Joni's fans versus education, income, or other variables? And since the population of internet users is probably skewered as apart from the total population because internet access does depend on income, is it possible that the percentage of internet users is higher than than the % of gays/lesbians in the total population? Do g/l people use the internet even more disproportionately because it is a vehicle for hooking up for a community that is dispersed, closeted, or remote? There are many many variables that have not been examined. I look at the population that I have seen at three Joni concerts and there was nothing specifically extraordinarily gay/lesbian about that audience (that I could discern by anecdote without statistical sampling) nor have I ever once heard a Joni song played in a gay or lesbian bar. So this discussion has been based on a most non verified assumption. I have no clue whether Joni's fan base is disproportionately gay/lesbian as opposed to the general population as a whole. Not to say that the discussion wasn't interesting but all anyone offers as to the truth of the proposition is how it seems to them by encountering people in here, and that does not make a valid foundation for conjecture. I know that I am being an asshole. But I am. Vince ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #33 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)