From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #30 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, January 27 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 030 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- SEX CHANGE ["Lucy Hone" ] Video Tree #1 [Aerchak@aol.com] BLUE ["janine sherman" ] Re: Re: STANDARD oil [] re: Bob's epiphany "my old man"...and "for free" ["mia ortlieb" ] Joni & Michael Leunig (only small JC) [John Low Subject: SEX CHANGE I wrote in the other day about a very very dear friend and the real living hell of him having been born into the wrong body. Gender dysmorphia is NOT ABOUT CHASING A SEXUAL FANTASTY, as Randy Remote wrote. It is not about a whim of cosmetic irritation with your body,like having a nose job or a tummy tuck.It is not some casual "HMMM wonder what its like to be a woman" idle wondering .... Gender dysmorphia is a real hell for the people it affects. Some of them never make the change, many of them commit suicide, some of them are physically enormous so even if they make the change, are never actually going to look like anything other than large men dressed as women, but with breasts and no penis. My friend is only 5'6" with size 6 feet and very slim, as a man she was not someone who was macho or very masculine but did all the things that macho guys do, car rally, drove buses, a great car mechanic and handi person and that is because (if you read about this condition) the man and women affected try to liveout the role they have been dealt... and they do try hard to live this lie convincingly....THAT IS THE LIE THEY LIVE, the life prior to reassignment surgery, not the life they live after it. Nobody undergoes that sort of surgery on any sort of whim....nor for any sort of sexual fantasy... As a woman, (we met up again yesterday) she is quiet, unobtrusive and utterly feminine. In the time we were friends prior to losing touch and "him" re-emerging as a woman, "He" was a wonderful friend, and great person to spend time with, but so unhappy and constantly trying to be someone that would never be "found out". As a woman, despite having lost the love of his parents and children (but not the support of any of his three ex-wives) she has found peace. We were talking yesterday about the fact that she has found love in the arms of another woman, but she said, "Actually its not about sex... its about acceptance, its about knowing I am loved for the woman I have always been, for the person I really am, and I realise that only women really understand the complexities of the female condition".. BUT PLEASE, understand (those who are in doubt,) this is not some freak show. Its not about SHEMALES or FEMALE IMPERSONATION or GETTING A LIFESTYLE or about pretending to be a woman to get sex from a man its truly about having all the emotional and mental make up of a woman trapped in the wrong body.. Put GENDER DYSMORPHIA into a search engine and read about it properly then maybe you will better understand the real problems that these people face. CAtching up on the digests as I styed with some friends in Wiltshire last night and came back to huge amounts of e-mails...thank you all who wrote.... Lucy Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 08:29:59 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Video Tree #1 I am interested in obtaining a copy of Video Tree #1 and would appreciate any assistance. Thank you. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 11:27:41 -0500 From: "janine sherman" Subject: BLUE I love the "Bob's art" moniker and chuckle like crazy at your numerical rankings. I can't do it, I have tried but 6 mo. later I change it. Just your point. What are you an actuary? HEHE Blue is the only song I ever memorized on piano. I will have to give it try again. I got it back all in one piece a while ago. Thanks for the prompt return. Those lyrics......... Blue songs are like tattoos You know I've been to sea before Crown and anchor me Or let me sail away Hey Blue, here is a song for you Ink on a pin Underneath the skin An empty space to fill in Well there're so many sinking now You've got to keep thinking You can make it thru these waves Acid, booze, and ass Needles, guns, and grass Lots of laughs lots of laughs Everybody's saying that hell's the hippest way to go Well I don't think so But I'm gonna take a look around it though Blue I love you Blue here is a shell for you Inside you'll hear a sigh A foggy lullaby There is your song from me Janine NP: Paprika Plains DJRD ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 12:35:48 -0500 From: Subject: Re: Re: STANDARD oil Dear SUSAN (and ALL): I wasn't suggesting that folks couldn't/shouldn't cover ANY of La Joni's songs -- the more the merrier, as far as I'm concerned. What I was trying to get at was this: that a true "standard" tends to be less personal, more universal -- like MY FUNNY VALENTINE, say, or STORMY WEATHER; BOTH SIDES NOW, BIG YELLOW TAXI and CIRCLE GAME; or, God forbid, FEELINGS and YOU LIGHT UP MY LIFE. There's a kind of easy-to-grasp simplicity to them. That's what I perceive a standard to be, in the strictest sense. But then, what do I know? ;-) MICHAEL P.S. I've always wondered why JERICHO hasn't been covered (to my knowledge). I think it so beautifully captures a modern, universal sentiment. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 12:15:40 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: Bob's epiphany "my old man"...and "for free" Bob, thanks for sharing your experience of learning to play "My Old Man" on the piano. That song is amazing and those lyrics- how do you top "the bed's too big, the frying pan's too wide" ? I've always loved and wanted to play the song "For Free" on the piano. I've never had piano lessons before, but a couple months ago I thought-what the heck - I've taught myself guitar without lessons, surely I can teach myself piano. So I printed out Howard Wright's piano transcription and went over to my dear, patient friend's house where there is a piano. After learning the gist of it, I was absolutely amazed by the beauty of it all. With the right hand, you only have to use 2 fingers and keep them the same distance apart while moving up and down the keyboard. It's so easy! Leave it to Joni to find something so simple, yet so incredibly beautiful at the same time. If there are any other non-piano players out there who have also had a craving to play "For Free" on the piano, I encourage you to try it! All you need is a little patience, a cheat sheet that tells you the notes on the piano, then plot out the notes from Howard's transcription to the piano keys and "magic" will happen! Mia _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 13:17:45 -0500 From: "Suzanne MarcAurele" Subject: Thank you for your support Treacle - cloying flattery - that lady from new jersey will never be accused of that! thanks for your kindnesses - we grow from Mitchell and hey any other person lunatic enough to go against the tide to see what it will do! have fun until my next eruption! S. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 21:32:10 +0000 From: John Sprackland Subject: Sex Kills, Blue Tapestry & Proto-Sex! Hi 1. On BBC Radio 2 today the guest of Clive Andersen (sitting in for Michael Parkinson) was jazz singer, Claire Martin choosing 3 favourite tracks. Her third pick was Sex Kills from T'log. Andersen (jerk) expressed surprise that a jazz singer would pick Joni - he's probably heard nothing since Blue... One of her other picks was Mile Davis (Blues & Green), I didn't catch the other. 2. Any other jmdl'ers in the North West of England? On Saturday April 12th, Chris While & Julie Matthews are doing their 'Blue Tapestry' show - - a celebration of the songs of Carole King & Joni - at Southport Arts Centre. Chris & Julie are fine singer-songwriters in their own right and their band comprises various Fairport/Tull/Albion/Thompson luminaries. THIS IS NOT A TRIBUTE SHOW - it's genuine musicians reinterpreting songs they love. Thought it might be a good opportunity for local list correspondents to say 'hi' to each other? Tickets are #10 (#8 concessions), box office 01704 540011. Drop me a line if you're coming.. [... ok, I confess a vested interest; I'm Marketing Manager at Southport Arts Centre! But I'm a Joni Mitchell fan first!....] 3. ... ok, my 'epiphany'... heard 'Boho Dance' on the Kid Jensen Show, Radio 1 circa 1977 - can you think of a less typical song to serve as an intro to Joni? Then went babysitting with a girlfriend and the people she was sitting for had HOSL - probably a subconscious association between Joni's music and sweet teenage proto-sex has lived with me ever since! I didn't love it immediately (the album!... I loved the proto- sex!) but I was intrigued enough to buy it. In fact, to this day I remain suspicious of any Joni album I like on first hearing (C&S is the only one I remember responding to that way - its not a favourite now..). Anyway, of course I grew to love HOSL and it is a favourite still. Mingus was the first release I remember actively waiting for - prior to that I was catching up on the back catalogue. I love Mingus and, personally, wish Joni had travelled a little further down that road. I only saw Joni once in concert - Wembley, 1983? - I was in love with a girl at university who shared my enthusiasm for Joni but, instead of inviting her to come to the concert with me, I invited the old girlfriend of proto-sex days; a sentimental, nostalgic gesture but a big mistake (sigh!). Hey, has Joni played a formative role in anyone else's love-life? OK, let me rephrase that; has Joni NOT played a formative role in anyone else's love-life?! John - -- John Sprackland ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 18:26:13 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Sex Kills, Blue Tapestry & Proto-Sex! In a message dated 1/26/2003 4:34:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, john@sprackland.demon.co.uk writes: > [... ok, I confess a vested interest; I'm Marketing Manager at Southport > Arts Centre! But I'm a Joni Mitchell fan first!....] > I'll chime in with a thumbs up for Blue Tapestry. I've got a copy of their CD and it's excellent all the way through - the King & the Joni stuff! And they do some inspired selections! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 19:10:43 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Most things going on on the list =?ISO-8859-1?B?oE5KQw==?= Lucy writes: << I am hetero and thinking of going to some sort of "Hetero Pride" to encourage me to express my sexuality with out feeling ashamed !!!!! >> Me: But if you really want your Hetero Pride celebration to be a smash, Lucy, you're going to *have* to call in the staple-gun fairies for the floats and costumes . . . Lucy: << I feel I am part of a minority on the list.... does that entitle me to government funding >> Me: In a word, Lucy, no. But you are welcome to use the JMDL Dating Club to find your ideal mate -- a kind, sensitive and soulful partner who lives thousands of miles away. Lucy: << Can I get anger management for my longing to hit people >> Me: Whatever for? The object of our affection is a maid kicker and frequent recording industry basher! Lucy: << What I like about the list though is the amazing cross section of everyone and all brought together because of a liking/loving/passionate feeling for Joni's music... >> Me: And you've gotta love the cash and generous gift certificates Les sends to his favorite listers! (Can't thank you enough, Les!) Welcome, Lucy! Hope your cold is better in the morning. - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 19:56:52 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: When did she stop? I put on O&M from T'log today while a friend was visiting. She listened for awhile and asked me who it was. When I told her it was Joni, my friend said, "When did she stop being white?" For what it's worth, my friend is a 50-ish, smart, cultured, multiracial -- Ancestors from four contintents! -- jazz lover and cigarette smoker. She isn't a big Joni fan but she loves Joni's 'new' voice. Poor Joni. I don't think people are even getting a chance to hear T'log unless one of us plays it for them . . . and we don't all exactly love it anyway. I wonder if Joni will really climb into that box of paints now that T'log hasn't been a megahit with anyone, from the public to the critics to her own fans. And yet, if T'log had been released by any new artist, it would have been hailed as the CD of the 21st century. (Sure, that's kind of a stupid thing to say since T'log is a career retrospective and no *new* artist could do that, but you know what I mean.) One more thing: I showed my friend the little T'log booklet of Joni paintings and she commented, "They're nice, but no one would ever see them if they weren't Joni Mitchell's." - --Bob (Proudly posting to the Joni Mitchell Discussion List during the Super Bowl. How gay is that?) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 18:46:30 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: When did she stop? Bob wrote: > Poor Joni. I don't think people are even getting a > chance to hear T'log unless one of us plays it for > them . . . and we don't all exactly love it anyway. > I wonder if Joni will really climb into that box of > paints now that T'log hasn't been a megahit with > anyone, from the public to the critics to her own > fans. And yet, if T'log had been released by any new > artist, it would have been hailed as the CD of the > 21st century. (Sure, that's kind of a stupid thing > to say since T'log is a career retrospective and no > *new* artist could do that, but you know what I > mean.) Andrew says: Very interesting little post, Bob. My thoughts... 1. I think Joni's been living in a box of paints all her life, she just decides to emerge with a record once in a while, and the difference now will be less and less musical outings. But that would have happened anyway, not just because Travelogue has met with tepid reception. She's winding down now. 2. I don't think Joni is surprised by lack of sales anymore, or lack of air-play, or lack of attention from anyone but the honourable honourers these days. She's been used to this kind of treatment for years. Having said that, she obviously gets irked by it now and then, given some of her rants - she just isn't surprised anymore. In fact, I'd wager she almost expects her albums to be commercial flops now - at least by industry standards. Cynical and jaded, maybe; but we love her anyway! 3. I'm not sure if Travelogue would be hailed as the record of the century no matter who released it. If Celine Dion or Madonna or (shudder!) Britney Spears decided to do an album like this (the idea is almost laughable, considering their limited scope) I think it would be met with the same kind of mixed feelings, if not outright dismissal. I don't know if it's Joni so much as it is the type of music on Travelogue. I personally love most of Travelogue, but it seems to me that unless it's got layered hip-hop beats and a groovy baseline, no one will play it on the radio and, therefore, its audience will be vastly limited. - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 20:22:28 -0800 (PST) From: John Low Subject: Joni & Michael Leunig (only small JC) Sometimes I listen to a radio program in which a guest discusses their life and work and plays some of his/her favourite music. Today that guest was cartoonist, poet and philosopher, Michael Leunig, and I cant say I was surprised to find there was a Joni Mitchell song among his selections. A Case of You  one of my favs too! He described it as a song full of beauty, mystery, humour and vulnerability. Leunig is one of Australias Living National Treasures. His strange, gentle, humane, weird, funny, sad and vulnerable little cartoon characters inhabit our newspapers and books, exploring our national consciousness and the human condition generally. There are times when his work really does move you to tears. Im not sure how well known his work is in other parts of the world but it sure deserves to be. I'm pretty sure Joni-people would like him and a quick search of the internet suggests that you can get a small taste of his images there. If anyone is interested try http://members.ozemail.com.au/~paulma/leunig.htm. There is also an appreciation web site at http://www.curlyflat.net/ though not it seems a great many images. Those not familiar with Michael Leunig are missing something very special IMO. Cheers, John (in Sydney) Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 02:07:06 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: January 27 On January 27 the following items were published: 1970: "Songs for Aging Children" - Look (Biography, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=168 1974: "A Long Climb for Joni" - Philadelphia Bulletin (Biography) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=862 1998: "Clinton Leads China's Army Band" - Associated Press (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=42 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #30 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)