From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #22 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, January 21 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 022 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Tori Amos cover of A Case of You ["Tamsin Lucas" ] Re: Tori does Joni ["Tamsin Lucas" ] The LA Joni Tour [Steve Dulson ] Lonely nights and DED [Merk54@aol.com] Joni's citizenship [Little Bird ] Play that Weird Minor Chord ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: The LA Joni Tour ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord [Les Irvin ] Re: Lonely nights and DED ["Bree Mcdonough" ] T'LOGUE and epiphany ["Lucy Hone" ] re:Epiphanies and Dirges, Paprika colors and other tidbits & now my tidbits ["J.David Sapp" ] Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord [Dan Olson ] Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord [Dan Olson ] Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord [Catherine McKay ] Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord, now =?ISO-8859-1?Q?declass=E9?= [vince <] Joni Epiphanies [Catherine McKay ] Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord [Dflahm@aol.com] Apology [vince ] Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord [Dan Olson ] Joni's TNT Tribute Show: Free ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Tori Amos cover of A Case of You Would someone be able to tell me where I might get a copy of/a listen to Tori doing A Case of You and/or River. I've heard neither and would love to (she did River about 3 times on the N American Scarlett's tour just before Xmas btw)? Sorry if this is known or the info is easily available on the site and I just couldn't find it. I would really really love to hear these particular covers. thanks, tamsin _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM: Try the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:12:13 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Tori Amos cover of A Case of You In a message dated 1/20/2003 7:21:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, tamsinjanelucas@hotmail.com writes: > Would someone be able to tell me where I might get a copy > of/a listen to > Tori doing A Case of You and/or River. They should both be available through kazaa (a file sharing program much like Napster) There was a Tori website that had "River" as a download. Don't know if it's still out there, you might try www.google.com and typing in "Tori Amos" +River and see what you can find. E-bay ALWAYS has Tori cd's for sale with ACOY; River is rarer but shows up there as well. I'll be happy to burn a cd with both tracks if you want to send me a blank cd and a self-addressed stamped envelope, or the costs for same. Bob NP: Eddie From Ohio, "Fire" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:33:54 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Dirges, Paprika colors and other tidbits. In a message dated 1/19/2003 12:55:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnirving@tbcnet.com writes: > When she has... let's see, hmmmmmm... Lead Balloon, > Ray Dad's Cadillac, and the much, much loved Dancing Clown. -Joni, > swing? Ray's Dad's Cadillac - a ROCK song? Not to these ears. Dancing Clown is just a dreadful song, period. You couldn't dress it up in anything and get away with it, unless it was some type of burial garment. Lead Balloon is only slightly better. I would firstly point to Raised On Robbery as Joni showing that she can rock in the classic 12-bar style. Wild Things Run Fast (not just the title track but many on the record) would be submitted as further proof, not to mention her 1983 tour which re-framed several of her earlier songs in a stronger more rocking vein. Of course given her vocal strength (or lack thereof) at present I would submit that her rocking days are behind her, and I don't mean that in any sort of derogatory way. Jason Falkner, Pinhead Gunpowder, Erinn Brown & a host of others also prove that her *songs* can rock. > -so I have to respectfully diagree with you on this one > Bobbo. (And that's not easy for me, as you are lord god among the > masses.) As you know, my friend, no offense taken at all. Indeed I was grateful not to see the words "Iraq", "Bush", or "Smoking Gun" in your post! :~) I guess what's really bumming me is this: I admire Joni first & foremost as a composer & songwriter. If you look at her last half-dozen discs, there's a grand total of (9) new songs. It's just frustrating for me, especially when some of those 9 are as strong as Harlem in Havana, Facelift, Love Puts On A New Face. So I guess I'm only going to be disappointed with her "Joni as interpretive vocalist" revue projects. That's my problem to deal with, and certainly no fault of Joni's. Bob NP: Eddie From Ohio, "Another Saturday Night" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 9:3:56 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: January 20 > 2002: "Joni gives me a warm glow in this chilly land" - Daily Mail > (Opinion) > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=974 Allison gives me a warm glow in this Joni land! Happy Birthday Allison!!! love, Victor - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:04:35 +0000 From: "Tamsin Lucas" Subject: Re: Tori does Joni Thanks so much Bob - though I do feel a little ditzy for not thinking of that... Anyway, I am happily burning both downloads to a CD and as soon as I get in the car after work... can't wait :-) >From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com > >They should both be available through kazaa (a file sharing program much >like Napster) > > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:37:00 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: The LA Joni Tour Hello all! Now that Coyote Rick has spilled the beans about the LA Jonifest, I want to solicit suggestions for the Joni tour Michele and I will be conducting on June 7. The obvious spots are: *Joni's Laurel Canyon house *The former A & M Records (and former Charlie Chaplin Pictures) building, where Joni recorded most of her albums) *The Troubadour (legendary club where Joni played - we could also go by the Whiskey-a-Go-Go, Roxy, Universal Amphitheatre (where MOA was recorded), Hollywood Bowl, etc. if anyone is interested) *The gates to Bel Air and the Bel Air Hotel (Joni watering hole) *The Daily Grill (site of the now-legendary Joni meetings with Les Irvin, Kakki and Stephen Epstein) Any other suggestions? There are of course a ton of other movie/music sites in Hollywood. Access to any of the sites is problematical - you will probably just be seeing the outside. For obvious reasons, Joni's current residence is NOT on the tour. :) - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:34:41 -0500 From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Lonely nights and DED Mack, Just catching up on a backlog of emails, and was touched by a couple of your recent posts - in particular your Lonely Wisconsin Night post, and your DED post. I hope things are looking up for you - things sounded rather bleak in that first post. I also found your DED post very insightful. I'm one of the few who also like DED very much, but what I really found interesting was your comments about how Joni's other albums really just brought your attention to things you somehow already knew, while DED opened your eyes to things you hadn't thought about before. For some reason I found this fasinating. Hejira is one of my favorite Joni albums, and the one that I can mostly relate to. It felt like I was listening to a musical diary of my life at the time. It's familiarity was startling, and one of the reasons it resonated with me so much. This 'listening to my life' is a re-occurring comment from most of Joni's fans. Your comment that DED "opened my mind to avenues, thoughts that I had not traveled, known before." is a stark contrast to "that album was like a mirror" comments so common with Joni's music. I wonder if maybe that's one of the reasons DED is so often looked at as a low point in Joni's career. A lot of people blame the prodution values, but I wonder if there's more to this than just the sound. Maybe it's just that they can't make a personal connection to the lyrics, as they've done on some many of her other albums. Anyway, you've given me plenty to think about today. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:34:47 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Joni's citizenship Does anyone know if Joni has dual citizenship (Canadian/American) or if she has become a full-fledged Yankee? Joni quote (1981, CBC television, Juno Award's Lifetime Achievement): "I feel Canadian when I come back to Canada. When I think of the things I did in Canada, I feel Canadian. But when I return [to the U.S.] I feel like an American because I've lived there for 15 years and things have changed so much." - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:15:27 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Play that Weird Minor Chord Hello, You know that famous Joni line of course from the Mingus album. Well I was wondering, and this is a question for musicians: what is the type of mode/chords/harmonies/??? that is the common link between, say, Joni, David Crosby, Jack Bruce, Mingus, to name a few? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:07:47 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: The LA Joni Tour Darn this sounds like fun.. unfortunately I will be in Corning ..NY on those dates. IF..I could have attended...I would love to see all the spots you mentioned!!! Also, LA planetarium where the fight scene took place in Rebel Without A Cause is something I have always wanted to see. Of course the Daily Grill would be on my top of the list. Hmmm? I wonder why? But..I still hold out hope for this sometime in the future because of a certain canyon lady on the list. Bree >Now that Coyote Rick has spilled the beans about the LA Jonifest, >I want to solicit suggestions for the Joni tour Michele and I >will be conducting on June 7. The obvious spots are: > >*Joni's Laurel Canyon house >*The former A & M Records (and former Charlie Chaplin Pictures) >building, where Joni recorded most of her albums) >*The Troubadour (legendary club where Joni played - we could >also go by the Whiskey-a-Go-Go, Roxy, Universal Amphitheatre >(where MOA was recorded), Hollywood Bowl, etc. if anyone is >interested) >*The gates to Bel Air and the Bel Air Hotel (Joni watering hole) >*The Daily Grill (site of the now-legendary Joni meetings with >Les Irvin, Kakki and Stephen Epstein) > >Any other suggestions? There are of course a ton of other >movie/music sites in Hollywood. > ################################################### >Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com >"The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com >"The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8 is here: Try it free* for 2 months http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:29:22 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord At 1/20/2003 01:15 PM, Laurent Olszer wrote: >You know that famous Joni line of course from the Mingus album. Not to be over anal about it, but wasn't it actually Sue Mingus who uttered that line? Les, asking more so than correcting... :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:41:13 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Lonely nights and DED >Mack, > >Just catching up on a backlog of emails, and was touched by a couple of >your recent posts - in particular your Lonely Wisconsin Night post, and >your DED post. > >I hope things are looking up for you - things sounded rather bleak in that >first post. I also found your DED post very insightful. I'm one of the >few who also like DED very much, but what I really found interesting was >your comments about how Joni's other albums really just brought your >attention to things you somehow already knew, while DED opened your eyes to >things you hadn't thought about before. For some reason I found this >fasinating. I agree with you Jack...about the insightfulness of Mack's DED post. This was one of the most insightful posts I've ever read here. I never cared for DED..but since Mack loves it so, I've listened and listened. And it has really grown on me. I think you hit the nail on the head Jack..I just could not ..well there was nothing to hang on to for me before. Once you are able to grasp and it becomes personal.. DED becomes quite intoxicating. Mack...you might be cold and lonely in Wisconsin..but your words have warmed me to the core. Bree >Your comment that DED "opened my mind to avenues, >thoughts that I had not traveled, known before." is a stark contrast to >"that album was like a mirror" comments so common with Joni's music. A >lot of people blame the prodution values, but I wonder if there's more to >this than just the sound. Maybe it's just that they can't make a personal >connection to the lyrics, as they've done on some many of her other albums. > >Anyway, you've given me plenty to think about today. > >Jack _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:44:31 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: T'LOGUE and epiphany Well Hello all I have listened to Travelogue about 4 times now and I have to say I like it a lot. I have to think of it as an exhibition of paintings and when I put the CD in my computer to store it on to Realplayer that was what I got!!!! An amazing slide show of her pictures!!!!, loved that and didn't know it was there......so I feel she somehow connected with me on that score. Some of you may say, "Oh come on Luce" but I am someone who does not pore over sleeve notes, does not read endless biographies or know the track listing of even my favourite Joni CD's and albums from years ago. I know I just love her music. Some T'LOG tracks I love more than others; but there is nothing that leaves me cold, or disappointed. Yes her voice has changed but then very few of us can sing with the same register we did 30 years ago......I certainly can't. But that does not alter her musical prowess or vision, and T'LOG is, I think, a vision. She is, after all an accomplished artist...not to everyone's taste but good enough. My Epiphany came with hearing "Little Green" through and open window one day in 1971... It came floating out of the house of a friend of mine and I just HAD to have that song. I realised I had found one of the voices I wanted to have... I added her to my collection of "If there is a voice God then could I have the voice of Sandy Denny (Fairport Convention) Joan Baez, and then added Joni Mitchell" Somewhere I still have the book in which I made notes about people I admired for various reasons...and the pleas for Joni's voice is in there... Any way... I went home, raided my Piggy Bank and took my money to Weston Hart in Gosport (where I have since returned to live) and bought BLUE... It was my first Joni album, I now realise. It got followed with more and more albums over the years. I have not got everything she has produced but intend to buy the ones I lack and will buy them blind as I did T'LOG I think what I like is her fearlessness...... no contractural obligation thing with her...its "this is what I wanted to do and here it is"...... and we like it or not... You can compare her versatility with James Taylor, I think (another favourite of mine,) He does what he wants to do and someof it is great, some of it not so wonderful. I happen to think October Road is bland...... I also rate her alongside Van Morrison (another fave) as he can do it all, rock, ballad, jazz, you name it and in his style and in his own good time THANK YOU VERY MUCH... (for those of you who have seen him live you will understand that comment) I should have loved to see Joni at the Isle of Wight '70 had I not been 13 and forbidden to go with my brother... who saw her (well I would imagine he saw her through colours brightly!!!!) but he heard her sing live and at a concert that really shook this region... you could hear the applause on the mainland!! and we watched the "great unwashed " crowding onto the paddlesteamers that went from the pier head at Portsmouth Harbour... I think the reason T'LOG is not being played on Radio is that the songs are meant for personal enjoyment and they are not easy listening and are not commercial. I expect some of T'LOG gets played on late night "easy" stations as they are rather special. They do not fit into daytime mainstream playlists for the vast hoards who listen without listening to the pap that gets put out there. Anyway that is another on the "thumbs up" list as far as I am concerned. It is always possible to intellectualise a like or dislike but I go for GUT FEEL and what I feel is grateful. Grateful that I have in my life the enjoyment of an artist who is a real artist, and who puts her art on the line..... WELL DONE JONI.......standing ovation from me... Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:33:53 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: re:Epiphanies and Dirges, Paprika colors and other tidbits & now my tidbits I'm on digest mode and received 2 great posts today. Mack - an epiphany with DED - what a great story and I believe stories such as yours are the reason Joni continues to share her gifts. John you're posts are so often enlightening. Sex Kills is the only cut on T'log I don't care for, but then I've never cared for the song but appreciate her intention. I'll try it again after reading your analysis. I think it may work for me - thank you. (sorry guys I didn't save your eadd's so this is going to jmdl) Now my own tidbits: Have you noticed the 4 electronic beeps at the very end of T'log's SofS? Interesting Joni coloration. And when she sings: And it made most people nervous They just didn't want to know What I was seeing in the refuge of the roads On the T'log version she puts an interesting little grunt at the end of *seeing*. It almost sounds like another word such as "seeing there". But there is no extra word in the lyric sheet. Interesting.... peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:36:28 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord At 01:29 PM 1/20/2003 -0700, Les Irvin wrote: >wasn't it actually Sue Mingus who uttered that line? I think you're right...and now I'm wondering to whom it was directed. Many (most?) jazz chords are complex and often convey dissonance through their diminished notes and added 6ths, 7ths, and 9ths. And while many of Joni's "peculiar" (her description) chords are complex and contain these same elements, I wonder if the call for that "weird minor chord" is a summons for one of Joni's, which are many times based on suspended 4th and minor 3rd variations. My recollection is the banter on "Mingus" was from a few folks (Sue, Swede, Charlie) hanging around the Mingus camp at that time. But is it possible that Charles was composing a song for the collaboration with Joni, and Sue was telling him he should insert one of Joni's chords...ah but to have been a fly on the wall... Scott, who thinks Joni showed us all just how fantastic her vocal talents were when she recorded that album. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:51:53 -0700 From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord Does anyone know what the quote is? Was "that 'weird minor chord'" in the quote? One chord that stands out would be the F7#9 (the opening chord of Goodbye Porkpie Hat, perhaps Mingus' most famous chart), with both a major third (in the F7) and a minor third (an octave higher, the #9). For those with an instrument, play the notes F A C Eb G#. Dan At 02:36 PM 1/20/2003 -0800, Scott Price wrote: >At 01:29 PM 1/20/2003 -0700, Les Irvin wrote: >>wasn't it actually Sue Mingus who uttered that line? > > >I think you're right...and now I'm wondering to whom it was directed. Many >(most?) jazz chords are complex and often convey dissonance through their >diminished notes and added 6ths, 7ths, and 9ths. And while many of Joni's >"peculiar" (her description) chords are complex and contain these same >elements, I wonder if the call for that "weird minor chord" is a summons >for one of Joni's, which are many times based on suspended 4th and minor >3rd variations. > >My recollection is the banter on "Mingus" was from a few folks (Sue, >Swede, Charlie) hanging around the Mingus camp at that time. But is it >possible that Charles was composing a song for the collaboration with >Joni, and Sue was telling him he should insert one of Joni's chords...ah >but to have been a fly on the wall... > >Scott, >who thinks Joni showed us all just how fantastic her vocal talents were >when she recorded that album. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:55:35 -0700 From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord I would add to your list other great jazz composers: Thelonious Monk, Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, and especially, Wayne Shorter, who penned more jazz tunes from the mid-fiftes to mid-seventies than perhaps any other composer; who is certainly among the very few extremely prolific jazz composers (Mingus and Ellington also come to mind). If I'm not mistaken, Wayne Shorter has played with Joni coninuously since '78 (on EVERY album since DJRD with possible exception of CMinRS). Obviously, this extraordinay jazz legend (Wayne Shorter) has found working with Joni satisfies his needs for creative outlet (since Weather Report fizzled in the early '80s). It's not far-fetched to consider Joni's last TWENTY-FIVE years to be collabortation with Wayne Shorter (and let's not overlook the continuity and contribution of Larry Klein, but that would be another thread). Fully half of Wayne's creative output (not strictly composing) in his incredibly long career has been with Joni. Dan At 08:15 PM 1/20/2003 +0000, Laurent Olszer wrote: >Hello, > >You know that famous Joni line of course from the Mingus album. >Well I was wondering, and this is a question for musicians: what is the type >of mode/chords/harmonies/??? >that is the common link between, say, Joni, David Crosby, Jack Bruce, Mingus, >to name a few? > >Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 21:46:05 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord --- Dan Olson wrote: > Does anyone know what the quote is? Was "that > 'weird minor chord'" in the > quote? It's in one of the raps on Mingus. They (whoever "they" are) are singing Happy Birthday to Mingus. There's an argument about how old he really is. Someone's playing it on the piano. In the midst of the playing and singing, someone (most people think it's his wife Sue and it sounds like the same person who's arguing with him about his real age, so it's gotta be her) says, "Play that weird minor chord". I presume she's talking about playing a minor chord within their singing of Happy Birthday. (The chord you mention is very cool, by the way, and fits the description of weird.) >One chord that stands out would be the F7#9 > (the opening chord of > Goodbye Porkpie Hat, perhaps Mingus' most famous > chart), with both a major > third (in the F7) and a minor third (an octave > higher, the #9). For those > with an instrument, play the notes F A C Eb G#. > ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 21:56:13 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord, now =?ISO-8859-1?Q?declass=E9?= Why I am a personality mis-fit within the JMDL and will surely get voted of the island: I saw the tread title and the two words, "Play that..." were enough to get me singing "Play that funky music, white boy..." And then you all be talking Mingus and I all be all thinking Wild Cherry... the cultural gap widens with me in the philistine corner. Oh well, I am low class and it shows. I am even watching MTV right now, Real World and Road Rules teams competing against each other, and rather interested in who gets voted off next, that bitch Michelle did Kelly in so bad... Vince the low life NPIMH: Yeah, There was a funky singer, playin' in a rock & roll band And never had no problems, yeah, burnin' down one night stands And everything around me, yeah, got to stop to feelin' so low And I decided quickly (yes I did), to disco down and check out the show Yeah they was dancin' and singin' and movin' to the groovin' And just when it hit me somebody turned around and shouted Play that funky music white boy Play that funky music right Play that funky music white boy Lay down that boogie and play that funky music till you die, Till you die, oh till you die Hey wait a minute Now first it wasn't easy changin' rock & roll and minds And things were getting shaky, I thought I'd have to leave it behind But now its so much better (its so much better), I'm funking out in every way But I'll never lose that feelin' (no I won't) of how I learned my lesson that day When they were dancin' and singin' and movin' to the groovin' And just when it hit me somebody turned around and shouted Play that funky music white boy Play that funky music right Play that funky music white boy Lay down that boogie and play that funky music till you die, Till you die, oh till you die ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:02:55 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Joni Epiphanies Mine was less Epiphany than one of those quietish Christmases where there's not a lot of money around, so you're not expecting much. It was after Clouds and before Ladies of the Canyon and it was summertime (Hey, I thought you said Christmas? Never mind, figure of speech. Move on.) That makes it 1969 according to the album release dates. That makes me 16 at the time. My family had moved from small-town Ontario to big-city Toronto (not really. Burbs. So what.) A friend of mine was visiting from the old home town. She mentioned Joni and how good she was. Being Canadian and afflicted with the then-prevalent (but not so much now) attitude that anything Canadian was inferior and somehow sucked, I was reluctant to take her word for it, and figured I'd probably hate it, and it would be too country or something, but nonetheless sprung for Clouds at the local cheapy department store (Zellers, or K-mart, or one of those. I think it cost me $3.99, which, in those days, was probably quite a few babysitting hours' worth of money.) The things that happen when you're expecting not much at all. From the opening notes of "Tin Angel", this was the voice (the singing voice and the poet's voice) I had been waiting for. Bonus - there was another record I could buy and not have to wait, since I didn't have and had never heard Song to a Seagull either. Double bonus - when Ladies of the Canyon came out, my older sister bought it, but I kind of took it over and played it all the time. Mysteriously it ended up in my record collection when we all grew up and moved away from home. Mugsie, if you're wondering what happened to your LOTC album, wonder no more. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:15:28 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord Great jazz composers? Please don't forget George Russell, as represented on THE JAZZ WORKSHOP (RCA VICTOR) and NEW YORK, NEW YORK (DECCA). He also contributed significantly to Hal McKusick's JAZZ WORKSHOP (RCA VICTOR) and CROSS SECTION SAXES (DECCA) as well as THE TEDDY CHARLES TENTET (ATLANTIC.) His "best known" (now there's a laugh!) works are "Stratusphunk" and "Ezz-thetic." Saving the best for last: his masterwork, "All About Rosie" is on MODERN JAZZ CONCERT (COLUMBIA). IMO, this is the single greatest orchestral setting of the jazz language brought to maturity by Bird & Dizzy. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:24:42 -0500 From: vince Subject: Apology Should have been marked NJC and I apologize for fucking up, I am really sorry, really sorry. vince wrote: > Why I am a personality mis-fit within the JMDL and will surely get > voted of the island: > etc. et etc. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:38:58 -0700 From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord I didn't mean for my list to be all inclusive. I guess I was thinking of composers that may have had a particular influence on Joni (I seem to recall reading her refer specifically to Monk and Miles; and she collaborated extensively with Wayne, and Herbie for that matter). All I really wanted to say was that Wayne Shorter has been Joni's solid side-man for twenty five years. Perhaps I should have changed the subject to "Wayne Shorter". Dan Olson wrote: "I would add to your list other great jazz composers: Thelonious Monk, Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, and especially, Wayne Shorter, ..." At 10:15 PM 1/20/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Great jazz composers? Please don't forget George Russell, as represented >on THE JAZZ WORKSHOP (RCA VICTOR) and NEW YORK, NEW YORK (DECCA). >He also contributed significantly to Hal McKusick's JAZZ WORKSHOP (RCA >VICTOR) and CROSS SECTION SAXES (DECCA) as well as THE TEDDY CHARLES >TENTET (ATLANTIC.) His "best known" (now there's a laugh!) works are >"Stratusphunk" and "Ezz-thetic." > >Saving the best for last: his masterwork, "All About Rosie" is on MODERN >JAZZ CONCERT (COLUMBIA). IMO, this is the single greatest orchestral >setting of the jazz language brought to maturity by Bird & Dizzy. > > DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 23:07:51 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Joni's TNT Tribute Show: Free Don't buy it on ebay. Get it in Stereo, free. Write to me off list and send me a blank VHS tape and cut out those who would profit from Joni's work. (And the work of Sweet Honey & the Rock, & Wynonna's work, and shawn colvin's work, etc. etc.) Better yet, include a blank cassette and get Simon's audience recording of the whole thing! It puts you right *IN* the room. Lama PS, I just received blank CD-Rs from the UAE for JoniFest 2002, vol 1 - 8. Thanks to Les for mastering this and to John for being my branch. Rockin' on a Sunday afternoon. Reelin'. Couldn't get away too soon. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:41:29 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Cars, pollution and war in Iraq Good article on car dependency in the U.S. and hence the need for Iraq's oil. http://www.guardian.co.uk/oil/story/0,11319,877269,00.html Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 23:41:50 -0500 From: simon@icu.com Subject: "I Have A Dream" THE Great American Speech Delivered on the steps at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington D.C. August 28, 1963 "I Have A Dream" by The Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Five score years ago, a great American, in whose symbolic shadow we stand signed the Emancipation Proclamation. This momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions of Negro slaves who had been seared in the flames of withering injustice. It came as a joyous daybreak to end the long night of captivity. But one hundred years later, we must face the tragic fact that the Negro is still not free. One hundred years later, the life of the Negro is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination. One hundred years later, the Negro lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. One hundred years later, the Negro is still languishing in the corners of American society and finds himself an exile in his own land. So we have come here today to dramatize an appalling condition. In a sense we have come to our nation's capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men would be guaranteed the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It is obvious today that America has defaulted on this promissory note insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, America has given the Negro people a bad check which has come back marked "insufficient funds." But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this nation. So we have come to cash this check -- a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice. We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind America of the fierce urgency of now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of segregation to the sunlit path of racial justice. Now is the time to open the doors of opportunity to all of God's children. Now is the time to lift our nation from the quicksands of racial injustice to the solid rock of brotherhood. It would be fatal for the nation to overlook the urgency of the moment and to underestimate the determination of the Negro. This sweltering summer of the Negro's legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality. Nineteen sixty-three is not an end, but a beginning. Those who hope that the Negro needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual. There will be neither rest nor tranquility in America until the Negro is granted his citizenship rights. The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our nation until the bright day of justice emerges. But there is something that I must say to my people who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice. In the process of gaining our rightful place we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force. The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny and their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom. We cannot walk alone. And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall march ahead. We cannot turn back. There are those who are asking the devotees of civil rights, "When will you be satisfied?" We can never be satisfied as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot gain lodging in the motels of the highways and the hotels of the cities. We cannot be satisfied as long as the Negro's basic mobility is from a smaller ghetto to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as a Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and a Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until justice rolls down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream. I am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from narrow cells. Some of you have come from areas where your quest for freedom left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering. Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive. Go back to Mississippi, go back to Alabama, go back to Georgia, go back to Louisiana, go back to the slums and ghettos of our northern cities, knowing that somehow this situation can and will be changed. Let us not wallow in the valley of despair. I say to you today, my friends, that in spite of the difficulties and frustrations of the moment, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood. I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a desert state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream today. I have a dream that one day the state of Alabama, whose governor's lips are presently dripping with the words of interposition and nullification, will be transformed into a situation where little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls and walk together as sisters and brothers. I have a dream today. I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together. This is our hope. This is the faith with which I return to the South. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day. This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with a new meaning, "My country, 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died, land of the pilgrim's pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring." And if America is to be a great nation this must become true. So let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania! Let freedom ring from the snowcapped Rockies of Colorado! Let freedom ring from the curvaceous peaks of California! But not only that; let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia! Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee! Let freedom ring from every hill and every molehill of Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring. When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "They kill people who give hope in this culture." Joni Mitchell andmoreagain, - ------------ simon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 23:42:16 -0500 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Dubbed Placid, King's Militant Voice Is Revealed DUBBED PLACID, KING's MILITANT VOICE IS REVEALED By Maynard Eaton All too often the media, political leaders and too many historians miscast and misrepresent Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. as merely a placid, non confrontational civil rights advocate who was content to focus on integration. The world has been duped into believing that the essence of Dr. King's message and mission is embodied in his "I Have A Dream" speech. While that marketing ploy and characterization of Dr. King's work and wizardry has made him a palatable folk hero, it has also skewed the substance of the King saga. That personification fails to recognize how this charismatic leader emerged as such a threat to America's economic interests he had to be eliminated. Those who worked with and marched with Dr. King say image-makers are attempting to sanitize this African American icon. "Dr. King was a radical revolutionary," opines Georgia State Representative Tyrone Brooks, formerly the national field director for the Southern Christian Leadership Conference. "White America is trying to change the image of King so that our children and unborn generations will not view the real King that we knew. Dr. King was not someone who walked around dreaming all the time. Dr. King was an activist and a true revolutionary." "He was always militant," says former SCLC President Dr. Joseph Lowery of King. "Anybody who talks about staying off the buses and challenging folk to walk is militant. Talking about public accommodations and the denial of the voting rights; all that is militant. He was dynamically and actively militantly non-violent." Brooks contends that Dr. King was assassinated because he was about to redirect the civil rights movement into another dimension -- economic parity. "White America decided that this man has certainly been a catalyst in bringing about social change in terms of desegregation and voting rights, but now this man is talking about altering the way America does business and talking about a redistribution of American wealth to the poor and the disenfranchised," Brooks said. "It really upset America." Says Dr. Lowery of the discernable shift in Dr. King's thinking and leadership; "The movement moved away from the customer side of the lunch counter to the cash register side. People who were willing to deal with segregation and busing and lunch counters were not quite ready to deal with economic integration. And so he died. They didn't care about niggas riding the bus, but when you talk about owning the banks and dividing the pie up, that's another proposition. You're talking about a seat at the economic table and even today there is pretty stiff resistance [to that]." During the first decade of the civil rights movement, Martin Luther King, Jr. had been hesitant to become involved in other political issues, for fear of weakening the cause for racial justice. By 1967, however in a speech at Riverside Church in New York City that many considered momentous, he declared his opposition to the Vietnam War. That speech; that moment amounted to a paradigm shift for the movement and the man. "Peace and civil rights don't mix, [people] say," Dr. King said. "Aren't you hurting the cause of your people, they ask. And when I hear them, although I often understand the source of their concern, I am nevertheless greatly saddened, for such questions mean that the inquirers have not really known me, my commitment or my calling. "I knew that America would never invest the necessary funds or energies in rehabilitation of its poor so long as Vietnam continued to draw men and skills and money like some demonic, destructive suction tube," Dr. King continued. "So I was increasingly compelled to see the war as an enemy of the poor and to attack it as such? We were taking the young Black men who had been crippled by our society and sending them 8,000 miles away to guarantee liberties in Southeast Asia, which they had not found in Southwest Georgia and East Harlem." Both Lowery and Brooks say that after that controversial speech, Black and White America took a different view of King. "The war was about economics as well as humanness," Dr. Lowery argues. "Martin said 'the bombs that explode in Vietnam in the '60s will explode in our economy in the '70s and '80s.' And, it did." "[Dr. King] was roundly criticized by all the establishment Black leadership. They all condemned Dr. King for that speech," Rep. Brooks recalls. "They said he'd gone too far and that the movement ought not get involved with foreign affairs. King said look at the amount of money that is coming out the American taxpayers' pocket, including Black people, that's financing this war. After that speech, you saw the anti-war movement really grow, young, White liberals and other civil rights leaders got on board. So, the King speech at Riverside Church laid the foundation for that overwhelming American response which said the war must end now." Brooks said it is most important and ultimately tragic that people began to see Dr. King as just a civil rights leader who would focus on domestic policy, not as international, global leader. Hopefully future generations will recognize that his deeds and his direction include far more than just his dream of integration. andmoreagain, - ------------ simon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:05:05 -0500 From: "Nikki Johnson" Subject: RE: Dubbed Placid, King's Militant Voice Is Revealed Simon, Thanks for posting this as well as the infamous "I Have A Dream" speech. It's rather unfortunate that those words are the only words many people know from this man's vast catalogue of speeches and writings. He truly was an amazing man. I think we should still be paying close attention to what he said. Nikki > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > simon@icu.com > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:42 PM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Dubbed Placid, King's Militant Voice Is Revealed > > > DUBBED PLACID, KING's MILITANT VOICE IS REVEALED > > By Maynard Eaton > > > > All too often the media, political leaders and too many > historians miscast and misrepresent Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. > as merely a placid, non confrontational civil rights advocate who > was content to focus on integration. The world has been duped into > believing that the essence of Dr. King's message and mission is > embodied in his "I Have A Dream" speech. > > While that marketing ploy and characterization of Dr. King's work > and wizardry has made him a palatable folk hero, it has also skewed > the substance of the King saga. That personification fails to recognize > how this charismatic leader emerged as such a threat to America's economic > interests he had to be eliminated. Those who worked with and marched with > Dr. King say image-makers are attempting to sanitize this African American > icon. > > "Dr. King was a radical revolutionary," opines Georgia State > Representative Tyrone Brooks, formerly the national field director > for the Southern Christian Leadership Conference. "White America > is trying to change the image of King so that our children and unborn > generations will not view the real King that we knew. Dr. King was > not someone who walked around dreaming all the time. Dr. King was > an activist and a true revolutionary." > > "He was always militant," says former SCLC President Dr. Joseph Lowery > of King. "Anybody who talks about staying off the buses and challenging > folk to walk is militant. Talking about public accommodations and the > denial of the voting rights; all that is militant. He was dynamically > and actively militantly non-violent." > > Brooks contends that Dr. King was assassinated because > he was about to redirect the civil rights movement into > another dimension -- economic parity. > > "White America decided that this man has certainly been a catalyst > in bringing about social change in terms of desegregation and voting > rights, but now this man is talking about altering the way America > does business and talking about a redistribution of American wealth > to the poor and the disenfranchised," Brooks said. "It really upset > America." > > Says Dr. Lowery of the discernable shift in Dr. King's thinking and > leadership; "The movement moved away from the customer side of the > lunch counter to the cash register side. People who were willing > to deal with segregation and busing and lunch counters were not > quite ready to deal with economic integration. And so he died. > They didn't care about niggas riding the bus, but when you talk > about owning the banks and dividing the pie up, that's another > proposition. You're talking about a seat at the economic table > and even today there is pretty stiff resistance [to that]." > > During the first decade of the civil rights movement, > Martin Luther King, Jr. had been hesitant to become involved > in other political issues, for fear of weakening the cause for > racial justice. By 1967, however in a speech at Riverside Church > in New York City that many considered momentous, he declared his > opposition to the Vietnam War. That speech; that moment amounted > to a paradigm shift for the movement and the man. > > "Peace and civil rights don't mix, [people] say," Dr. King said. > "Aren't you hurting the cause of your people, they ask. And when > I hear them, although I often understand the source of their concern, > I am nevertheless greatly saddened, for such questions mean that the > inquirers have not really known me, my commitment or my calling. > > "I knew that America would never invest the necessary funds > or energies in rehabilitation of its poor so long as Vietnam > continued to draw men and skills and money like some demonic, > destructive suction tube," Dr. King continued. "So I was > increasingly compelled to see the war as an enemy of the poor > and to attack it as such? We were taking the young Black men > who had been crippled by our society and sending them 8,000 miles > away to guarantee liberties in Southeast Asia, which they had not > found in Southwest Georgia and East Harlem." > > Both Lowery and Brooks say that after that controversial speech, > Black and White America took a different view of King. > > "The war was about economics as well as humanness," > Dr. Lowery argues. "Martin said 'the bombs that explode in Vietnam > in the '60s will explode in our economy in the '70s and '80s.' > And, it did." > > "[Dr. King] was roundly criticized by all the establishment > Black leadership. They all condemned Dr. King for that speech," > Rep. Brooks recalls. > > "They said he'd gone too far and that the movement ought not > get involved with foreign affairs. King said look at the amount > of money that is coming out the American taxpayers' pocket, > including Black people, that's financing this war. After that > speech, you saw the anti-war movement really grow, young, White > liberals and other civil rights leaders got on board. So, the > King speech at Riverside Church laid the foundation for that > overwhelming American response which said the war must end now." > > Brooks said it is most important and ultimately tragic that people > began to see Dr. King as just a civil rights leader who would focus > on domestic policy, not as international, global leader. Hopefully > future generations will recognize that his deeds and his direction > include far more than just his dream of integration. > > > > > > andmoreagain, > ------------ > simon ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #22 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)