From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #20 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, January 19 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 020 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Greatest Hits [] SJC SLOUCHING ["Lucy Hone" ] re: My Epiphany [cul heath ] Re: ACOY Covers [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] The Statue & Travelogue (was: I'm a bitch about political content in JMDL postings) ["Arlene T." ] Re: Hits, et al [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #18 regarding Michael's comments on cost of T'logue [Aerchak@a] NY Times letters dispute Rockwell 'review' ["PAUL PETERSON" ] Need help identifying JONI show [CDTraderJohn@aol.com] Today in History: January 19 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: January 19 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #36 --- middle-aged [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #38 -- CD sales [BRYAN8847@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:04:54 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: Greatest Hits Prolonging this "Greatest Hits" thread a bit more... For artists whose specific albums I am not too familiar with but whose musical oeuvre and reputation are known through magazines, word-of-mouth, interview, I buy their "greatest hits" albums to sample their artistry. And sometimes I buy their earlier stuff if their "Greatest Hits" and "Best of" compilations are particularly good. Like, before I got immersed with Manhattan Transfer's vocalese albums, their "Best of" compilation was particularly good (though there are 4 current "best ofs" in the market), so I started collecting all their more than 20 albums. But there compilations that are not that good, like Everything But The Girl's "best of". You wonder why they ever put up with this compilation since the songs chosen were not those that demonstrate their creativity (later I found out the duo was against this compilation... they even came up with a statement to fans not to support this album that was made without consulting them). There are compilations that are so haphazardly done. As a big fan of Ella Fitzgerald and Miles Davis, there are probably 30 different versions of "best of" albums depending on the record label. Charlotte Church's latest "best of" called PRELUDE was an embarrassment. Like millions of people who first heard her in VOICE OF AN ANGEL, I thought she was phenomenal. After three albums, PRELUDE came out and it seems intent on showcasing songs not suited to her style/age. Joseph in Manila PS. I was in a record store last night and saw a Greatest Hits of Joan Sutherland and Monserrat Caballe ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:20:09 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: SJC SLOUCHING I have not yet bought TLOG, nor actually listenened to it but I will buy it blind if only for the reference to SLOUCHING TOWARDS BETHLEHEM as this is taken from W B YEATS poem "The SECOND COMING" I have always felt that Joni read and admired Yeats as there are some wonderful lyric moments in her songs that remind me of some of his work..... and the work of TS Elliot too. I would not be the slightest bit surprised if James Joyce was not a big influence either... For those of you who are not familiar with The Second Coming I am including it below with all acknowledgements to copyright and all the legal stuff that may end up with some sort of "hey that's mine" law suit....So Publlishers be reminded here that if I get anyone interested in Yeats by copying this poem, and they buy some of your books I won't come after you for commission.....OK and you won't sue the JMDL either..... Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot see the falconer; Things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. Surely some revelation is at hand; Surely the Second Coming is at hand: The Scond Coming! Hardly are those words out When a vast image our of Spiritus Mundi Troubles my sight: somewhere in the dands of the desert A shape with lion body and the head of a man, A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun, Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds. The darkness drops again; but now I know That twenty centuries of stony sleep Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle, And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born? Written in 1921 is has such relevance today........ Anyway I will buy TLOG today and get back to you on it.I expect you will all say "but of course we knew" but maybe you have not read the poem in recent years and perhaps it will just be a pleasant thing regardless........ have a happy day Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 02:39:20 -0800 From: cul heath Subject: re: My Epiphany hey there fellow traveler :) cul sez: "to remedy the seperation you speak of, I suggest the following concoction..." Daily Dose: - - All I want (4 times per day for 1 week) - - Cary (4 times every windy day for 1 week) - - Chinese Cafe (every other day in the morning) - - Sponge Bob (min twice a week) - - Do something really cool for someone else (every other day for a week) - - Be your self( every day) luv cul ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 08:18:09 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: ACOY Covers In a message dated 1/18/2003 2:46:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, jpalis@kssp.upd.edu.ph writes: > I like Brian Kennedy's version best. It was unpretentious. There's surely a lot of good ones out there. The most effective ones are like you say, quiet, emotional, understated. Tori's is so powerful you get the feeling that she can't finish it! And I may be the only one who dig's Sloan's rocked-up version of it. Bob NP: Joni, "God Must Be A Boogie Man" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:39:48 -0500 From: "Arlene T." Subject: The Statue & Travelogue (was: I'm a bitch about political content in JMDL postings) Oh lord, I wouldn't want Joni to do a different version of "Ethiopia". That song as it stands is so gloriously moving, I'd hate to hear it any other way. Arlene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Fye" To: ; Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 12:08 AM : > And, if you had to choose the songs that were going to be on that : > album, done in that manner, would you not have chosen some other : > songs. : : Hmm ... how about "Ethiopia"? ; ) : ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:14:24 EST From: Jkp1953@aol.com Subject: Re: joni's guitar goes electric while acoustic will never go out of style, i loved joni's guitar on Taming the Tiger. there isn't another soul on earth who would approach going electric quite like that. LOVE 'only joy in town' from that work. i will listen to it again and again and again...............i have to admit doing the same with DJRD.........hit the back button three times on the way to my place of gainful employment. t'log comments; i was ecstatic that joni included slouching. she creates some works that are just thematic giants. i find t'log's woodstock hauntingly beautiful. and maybe the way it's meant to be heard ( dirge-like ) now. flat tires and be cool really stand out as the upbeats, .........finger snappin'. it appears we all agree that new material from joni would be heavenly. i miss her guitar quite severely. my wish is that some really wealthy person with good taste and an appreciation for joni's work would back a new recording just for the sake of the art and never mind the $$$$. of course that would happen maybe on another planet. joni herself did mention perhaps finding a way to sell new stuff on the net, without lining the company coffers. i think it's very cool that i've never witnessed difference of opinion handled so kindly. but this lengthy political stuff's gotta go where it belongs. and i won't say where. kindly, janet ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:31:55 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Hits, et al Bob (SC) M wrote: Matter of fact, I haven't gotten around to picking up Hits or Misses myself. > > : No sense in it, except for UFG which I already have on another cd anyway. > : > : Bob > Interesting - once upon a time, you suggested to me (when I was considering completing my collection) that having Hits was probably worth it for that reason, and also for UFG (which I did not have in any form until you later sent a live version to me on one of the CD's you prepared for me - remember ?). Anyway, I did end up bying Hits and Misses. A few (oops -several) thoughts: 1. I'm glad Joni did not call it "Greatist Hits", aren't you ? (If she called it that, she would have had to have switched album covers, IMHO, to reinforce the element of farce - that would transcend satire, right ?) 2. I will be sending a care package to Paris for my daughter, who has been getting a "JM song of the day - lyrics" e-mail from me for the past month. The care package will definitely include "Hits". Of course, she has been exposed to (inflicted with ?) a lot of JM music over the years, but has steadfastly pushed it away or evaded it. Now, though, I think she is ready for JM - she never appreciated the lyrics before. We'll see. 3. Seems she also ordered Bob Dylan's greatest hits for herself. That will be an interesting side by side comparison, I think. 4. I think that Joni could fill up at least a half-dozen albums of Misses. The consistently high level of her work is nearly unique, IMO. I mean, if an album has 2 A+ songs, 3 A's, 3 A-'s and 2 B+'s, doesn't the album get an A+ as an overall grade, on a curve ? For example, JT (one of my personal favorites, especially as a performer and especially when he sticks close to his best work, which he usually does in concert) has seldom put out an album with that kind of consistency. Joni has done it many times - never a real clunker. 5. I am also sending along Judy Collins's Wildflowers (which includes BSN and MFM, as well as covers of 3 Leonard Cohen songs and a Jacques Brel and 3 of Judy's own songs - a fine record, for those of you who do not have it). I sense that Leah (who loved the BSN lyrics) was disappointed when she heard a downloaded JM version of BSN. I think Wildflowers is a special record, and am betting that she loves it. 6. I have sent Leah the lyrics to all of STAS and scattered others (mostly from JM's early work). I will also send her STAS and one other JM record - which one would you-all recommend ? (I am thinking it will have to be from C&S or earlier - we still need to set the hook.) She will have at least until May to absorb this, and perhaps until August if her grant is extended. Bob S. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:25:40 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: SLOUCHING ..boy do I feel stupid UMMM hello all. Well had I ever seen to cover of TLOG (playing as I type) Iwould not have told you all what you already knew... so far feel that TLOG is an amazing enterprise on Joni's part and I feel I am sitting in a cinema with the lights down waiting for a show...... If I had some huge velvet curtains with gold tassels I would sit in front of them and wait for the programme to start... What a stage show it could make with pyrotechnics, film backdrops and a huge orchestra...I would go to see it..... I saw the Eagles on the Hotel California tour in London (royal Albert Hall I think) and when they played Wasted Time I was wondering how the hell they would do the Reprise of it....... It was a brilliant show and then when they got to the Reprise the voilins came in and I thought "they have taped it" and then the curtains went up and this HUGE orchestra was there.. it think it may have been the London Symphony orchestra or the Philharmonic but either way it blew my head away and I get goose bumps when I remember it....... That is what TLOG feels like to me.. and if I had not been idly fiddling about on the computer at Christmas, very fed up and lonely, looking for Joni tunings and tabs I would not have found the list....... So thank whoever for that happy accident and I would not be listening to TLOG now. Dog and kids want feeding see you all later. Lucy Now I know there has been some discussion of her voice ...well it is Joni... she has THAT voice and that is fine by me... I liked Both Sides Now so TLOG was going to be OK.... I like buying things with absolutely no idea what they will be like but based on previous happines ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:34:08 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hits, et al In a message dated 1/18/2003 10:31:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, Bobsart48 writes: > Interesting - once upon a time, you suggested to me (when I was considering > completing my collection) that having Hits was probably worth it for that > reason, and also for UFG (which I did not have in any form until you later > sent a live version to me on one of the CD's you prepared for me - remember > ?). I'm sure I'll pick up Hits & Misses one of these days. I'll throw in a bid every now & again on Ebay, but I always get sniped. I ain't sweating it, as the studio version of UFG is on the "Alternate Blue" that I have, and I have enough live versions too! :~) > > 1. I'm glad Joni did not call it "Greatist Hits", aren't you ? Yes, because it would be SO embarrassing to have that misspelled word on the cover! ;~) It would also indicate that she had LOTS of hits to choose from, and just picked the 'greatest' ones for this collection. As we know, the reality is that she only had 1 major hit in the US ("Help Me") & a couple of minor ones. She DID have good exposure on FM radio in the 70's, which was more free-form, so many of her minor hits are known, and of course there are the songs she wrote that were hits for others. Of course, the lack of real hits hasn't stopped bazillions of artists from issuing Greatest Hits collections...I remember getting "Trini Lopez' greatest hits" free with a 6-pack of Pepsi. It was a 45!! :~) > 4. I think that Joni could fill up at least a half-dozen albums of > Misses. But of course, by definition! "Misses" would indicate a great song that was not a commercial success as a single, right? Joni has a TON of those - she really only has a small handful of songs that are out-and-out turkeys, certainly a smaller percentage than anyone I can think of with her volume of work. > > 6. I have sent Leah the lyrics to all of STAS and scattered others > (mostly from JM's early work). I will also send her STAS and one other JM > record - which one would you-all recommend ? (I am thinking it will have to > be from C&S or earlier - we still need to set the hook.) She will have at > least until May to absorb this, and perhaps until August if her grant is > extended. C&S gets my vote. Great hooks, great ear appeal, and lyrically stunning. Bob NP: Los Lobos, "What In The World" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:17:45 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #18 regarding Michael's comments on cost of T'logue I agree with Michael. Actually, I was thinking just last evening that as much as Joni hates the music industry, her label certainly has a great deal of respect for her. It must have cost a lot of money to make Travelogue and I doubt if it is going to be much of a money maker, sales wise. Say what you will, but I think Joni has a lot of power with the record folks. Why else would they support such a project? Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:26:20 -0500 From: "PAUL PETERSON" Subject: NY Times letters dispute Rockwell 'review' This Sunday's Times publishes 4 letters in the Arts and Leisure section disputing the Rockwell piece. The fact that they published four means they got an awful lot of mail about it. Here's the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/19/arts/19MAIL.html oh hell, here are the letters: (NY Times requires registration bull****. Let'em sue!) January 19, 2003 Joni Mitchell; Simon Russell Beale; 'Oz' head of Her TimeTo the Editor: Re "Joni Mitchell's Long and Restless Journey" by John Rockwell [Jan. 5]: Like Mr. Rockwell, I was taken aback at first by Ms. Mitchell's new album, "Travelogue." Her voice is indeed ragged, and the orchestral arrangements are admittedly slick. On repeated listening, however, the experience is transformed: the raggedness becomes musical, raspy, accompaniment to a completely brilliant and as-yet-unheard kind of mega-hip muzak. The work is ahead of its time and difficult to take in quickly; I will not hold Mr. Rockwell to his comments five or ten years hence. LISA CUNNINGHAM Manhattan Moving On To the Editor: John Rockwell is right that Joni Mitchell shows a new side in "Travelogue," though it is a side we at least glimpsed in her album "Both Sides Now" and in her performances on Herbie Hancock's 1998 "Gershwin's World." As president of the board of Dance Theater Workshop, I also agree that the side of Ms. Mitchell that Mr. Rockwell admires is lovingly captured by John Kelly in the performance piece-homage he has performed there and at other venues. It's probably also true that "Travelogue" ultimately won't stand up against, say, "Court and Spark" or "Hejira" in the greatest-Joni-Mitchell-album-of-all-time competition. It is, after all, a revisitation of places she has taken us before, this time with full orchestral accompaniment. But I have to take issue with Mr. Rockwell's characterization of the record as "pretty terrible." I think it is pretty terrific, and the more you listen to these two CD's, the better they get. Joni Mitchell has moved on. John Rockwell doesn't like where she's gone, but I hope that he doesn't discourage too many of her other fans from joining her. MICHAEL J. CONNELLY Manhattan A Painter of Note To the Editor: I agree that Joni Mitchell's "Travelogue" poses problems for the listener, the biggest being that, lovely as the music is, there is not one song that is preferable to Ms. Mitchell's original versions. But I would strongly disagree with John Rockwell when he categorizes her paintings as "really naove." It seems to me that for the last decade or so, Ms. Mitchell's musical output has been overpraised and her painting has not been given the recognition it deserves. SANDY FERBER Rego Park, N.Y. Truly `Longtime' To the Editor: I was angered by John Rockwell's mean-spirited assessment of Joni Mitchell's "Travelogue." He calls himself a "longtime admirer," but seems to be like all the other people who were fans of the Joni Mitchell of the early 70's and then ditched her when she began to become something else. In my mind, Joni Mitchell did not change much at all: her music and lyrics continued to be personal and poetic, insightful and moving. Joni Mitchell's "imagined public" exists, and if Mr. Rockwell is no longer a fan, it is his loss. RICK KAYE Manhattan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:48:15 -0800 (PST) From: relayer211@aol.com Subject: Ex-First Ladies Fete Betty Ford Center From: relayer - -------------------- Ex-First Ladies Fete Betty Ford Center - -------------------- By JEFF WILSON Associated Press Writer January 18, 2003, 10:03 AM EST INDIAN WELLS, Calif. -- Former first ladies Betty Ford, Rosalynn Carter, Nancy Reagan, Barbara Bush and Hillary Clinton celebrated the 20th anniversary of the Betty Ford Center for substance abuse in elegant style. "When we admitted our first patients over 20 years ago, I had no idea that the Betty Ford Center was destined to become the nation's leading treatment facility for persons addicted to alcohol and/or other drugs," said Mrs. Ford, 84. The rare gathering brought the women and about 600 others who paid up to $5,000 per dinner to benefit the nonprofit center in Rancho Mirage. "It's a real sisterhood. We love getting together," Mrs. Carter said after posing for pictures with the other first ladies Friday night. They later mingled with a small group of friends in a VIP room adjacent to a ballroom. Mrs. Bush, wearing her trademark polka-dot dress and white pearls, chatted with talk-show host Larry King, while Mrs. Reagan, in a red gown, talked with Mrs. Carter and actor Kirk Douglas. Also in attendance were former Presidents Bush and Ford. The audience erupted in wild applause as the first ladies entered the room one-by-one to strains of "God Bless America." Mrs. Ford checked herself into a treatment facility in 1978 and her candor about her drug dependence is largely credited with helping break the silence for many alcoholics and drug addicts. The center named for her has since treated more than 56,000 people for various addictions. The black-tie gala, which was set to raise $1.6 million, featured a who's-who of Hollywood, business and political heavyweights and included videotaped messages from President Bush and first lady Laura Bush. Douglas and King were joined at the festivities by other luminaries, including Merv Griffin and Republican Rep. Mary Bono. New York's Democratic Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton arrived late, and Ford Center officials said she had remained in Washington for the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee vote to name Tom Ridge as the nation's first Homeland Security Department chief. Former first lady Lady Bird Johnson, who turned 90 on Dec. 22, is still recovering from a stroke in May and was unable to attend, her spokeswoman, Betty Tilson, said Friday in Austin, Texas. "She wanted very much to be there. She loves Betty Ford very much and admires her," Tilson said. Money raised during the gala will help pay the bills of poor patients. Treatment at the 14-acre Betty Ford Center costs $16,500 for an average stay of 28 days. The center, which boasts nine buildings, dozens of medical professionals and 100 volunteers, treats nearly 160 patients at a time and has 100 beds on campus. Copyright (c) 2003, The Associated Press - -------------------- This article originally appeared at: http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-first-ladies0118jan18,0,2374401.story Visit Newsday online at http://www.newsday.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:26:53 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Anti-war in SF Witnesses of the anti-war protest in San Francisco estimate that 300,000-400,000 people are in attendance. Happening right now, There is live coverage from KPFA (Real Audio) at: http://www.kmud.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 00:59:38 EST From: CDTraderJohn@aol.com Subject: Need help identifying JONI show Can anyone help me identify this Joni show I recently received. It runs about 48:45 and was identified only as BBC (sounds like 1969-1970 or 71). Also, if anyone has a corrected setlist, venue and/or ARTWORK (!), I'd sure appreciate it. It's a great set, whatever it is. Thanks, John in Massachusetts 1) Chelsea Morning (begins abruptly) 2) The Good Samaritan 3) The Gallery 4) Being Free (?) 5) My Old Man 6) For Free 7) Woodstock 8) All I Really Want (?) 9) California 10) Big Yellow Taxi 11) Both Sides Now Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 02:06:49 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: January 19 1995: Joni appeared at the "Commitment To Life VIII" benefit for AIDS Project Los Angeles, honoring Elton John, Tom Hanks and Ron Meyer at the Universal Amphitheatre. Joni performed "Moon at the Window" and "Sex Kills". Some of the other performers at the show were Julie Andrews, Garth Brooks, Sheryl Crow, Melissa Etheridge, Don Henley, Salt N Pepe, Tammy Wynette, Rupaul, Clint Black, George Michael, and Elton John. More info: http://www.jonimitchell.com/AidsProjectLAMain95.html http://www.jonimitchell.com/AidsProject95SlideA.html - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 02:06:49 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: January 19 On January 19 the following items were published: 1975: "Joni's Private World Gets Lost in the Stadium" - New York Times (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=820 1988: "Storm Pelts West, Heads Toward Plains" - Detroit Free Press (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=917 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 02:34:35 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #36 --- middle-aged I went over to the table and told another member that we discussing Joni Mitchell and he said he had never heard of her! He's about 60 or so and was a professor etc etc This is similar to my experience. There are a lot of older (60s and 70s) volunteers where I work, and the few times I've mentioned Joni among that age group the response is that they don't listen to those young rock & roll singers. Younger people of course don't listen to those old folksingers. That leaves me in the middle, listening to the magnificent Joni, who in reality is neither a rock nor folksinger. In fact, I find it difficult to describe what she does. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 02:57:58 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #38 -- CD sales If Joni indeed doesn't sell (TI, TTT and BSN were particularly disappointing, given Joni's '90s return to favour), I know some people find this subject tedious. But anyway, I think it would be safe to say that TI and BSN had respectable (if far from spectacular) sales, especially TI, which I believe sold over 300,000 copies. BSN probably around 200,000. TTT and T'log have experienced minimal sales, with T'log not even cracking the top 200 (I'm pretty sure), something that hasn't happened since the first album, if even then. It's all about radio, baby. No matter how controversial or odd, T'log would be selling well, if it were only on the radio. Bryan ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #20 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)