From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #18 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, January 18 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 018 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Travelogue Opinion ["Blair Fraipont" ] The unknown Joni ["Kate Bennett" ] screen door slam [colin ] Re: ACOY Covers [Catherine McKay ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #16/Political information on Joni only digest [] Re: ACOY Covers [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: ACOY Covers [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: "Yellow checkers for the kitchen" [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] ATT Jonatha fans-- Carson Daley Jan. 21 [Patti Witten ] come in from the COLD [] My Fav... Albums of 2002 ["Happy The Man" ] Re: come in from the COLD ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: The True Bush Agenda In Iraq [sl.m@shaw.ca] Very sorry - Re: The True Bush Agenda In Iraq [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: Greatest Hits [Scott Price ] Re: Greatest Hits [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] I'm a bitch about political content in JMDL postings [Aerchak@aol.com] Announcement -- JoniFest LA -- June 6-8, 2003 [CoyoteRick@aol.com] Re: My Epiphany - HOSL ["Stephen Toogood" ] HITS ["Stephen Toogood" ] Re: My Epiphany, sjc ["Stephen Toogood" ] Re: re;talking about Joni Mitchell with my writing group ["Stephen Toogoo] Re: "Yellow checkers for the kitchen" ["Stephen Toogood" ] Re: Greatest Hits [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] I'm a bitch about political content in JMDL postings ["Arlene T." Subject: Re: Travelogue Opinion Arlene, I must admit, that eventhough I bought Travelogue and am a huge fan as well, many of the tracks blend together...at first, but after several listenings, their individuality does shine. And as much as I like and admire Wayne SHorter, he just is on too many tracks. For instance on some songs he shines and adds scintillating accompaniment and on others more like an interruption. And don't feel awkward about sending your true feelings about Joni. There are people who understand your bewilderment :) Blair NP: "To her Ladyship" John Coltrane _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 01:27:08 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: The unknown Joni >>Surprisingly, my parents did not really know who Joni Mitchell was until I started listening to her records at full volume before bedtime - "Turn that woman off!" they'd shout. Gradually they came to respect my respect for Joni Mitchell and learned a lot about her in the process.<< funny because i'd guess your parents would be of the generation who would know joni...i am curious, who did they listen to? ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 10:03:21 +0000 From: colin Subject: screen door slam wheni go to bed at night I always read. the novel i am reading is American. Anyway, it has the line'I heard the screen door slam' andimmediately Joni starts singing in my head. It was annoying, I couldn't remember the song tho it is/was on the tip of my toungue. I decided, without checking, that it was from BYT. Yes? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 06:41:30 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: ACOY Covers --- frasere@intergate.ca wrote: > Quoting SCJoniGuy@aol.com: > excellent, but these > > artists also turn in great ACOY's: > > > > Tori Amos > > Betty Buckley > > Michael Holland > > Brian Kennedy > > Prince > > Phoebe Snow > > Susan Webb > > > Well, Bob, the only one I have from this list is > Prince. As much as I love > Diana Krall's take on it, Prince blows it/her away! > Man, he IS good. It shows to go you how tastes differ. I can't stand Prince's version. I'm not a big fan of his to begin with, so that could be why. His version makes me cringe. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 06:46:40 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #16/Political information on Joni only digest I purposely switched to the joni only list because I was tired of the lengthly rantings on the political state of the world, primarily Iraq. I am not a member of this list to discuss politics or read about them. I do that through other means. I am actually incensed this morning to find that individuals just feel compelled to post their views on Iraq when this is a Joni only list. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IRAQ! These writers are oviously serving their own agenda and I suggest they suggest they find a group suited to these kinds of needs for these kinds of discussions. This group is called the JONI MITCHELL DISCUSSION LIST not the SADAM HUSSEIN DISCUSSION LIST. Give it a rest and get a clue. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:23:19 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: ACOY Covers In a message dated 1/16/2003 10:18:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, frasere@intergate.ca writes: > Perhaps it's time for a new sweet 16???? Stephen, you KNOW as far as I'm concerned, it's ALWAYS time for Joni covers!! I'm currently planning on a follow-up to the quadruple platinum "Sweet 16", and will have it ready to share at the Fest. And you have to help me with a serious problem...I can't seem to get that Remy Shand CD out of my player! ;~) Bob NP: Dylan, "Dirt Road Blues" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:23:19 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: ACOY Covers In a message dated 1/16/2003 10:18:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, frasere@intergate.ca writes: > Perhaps it's time for a new sweet 16???? Stephen, you KNOW as far as I'm concerned, it's ALWAYS time for Joni covers!! I'm currently planning on a follow-up to the quadruple platinum "Sweet 16", and will have it ready to share at the Fest. And you have to help me with a serious problem...I can't seem to get that Remy Shand CD out of my player! ;~) Bob NP: Dylan, "Dirt Road Blues" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:38:04 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: "Yellow checkers for the kitchen" In a message dated 1/16/2003 11:06:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: > My absolute favourite moment from HOSL is the lead > into "Harry's House/Centerpiece." It gives me chills > each time I hear it. I would wager a guess that it is perhaps Joni's favorite from that project as well...it's the only HOSL song she did on her '98 tour, not that that's any kind of real proof. Just that it's one she tends to keep in her 'arsenal'. And you're right...HH is a real masterpiece from beginning to end. I love this little example (including your subject line) of her writing acumen: Battalions of paper minded males Talking commodities and sales While at home their paper wives And paper kids Paper the walls to keep their gut reactions hid Yellow checkers for the kitchen The way she uses the word "paper"...such a simple word, yet it means one thing to the husband/businessman, shuffling papers in his briefcase, and another thing to the housewife who uses wallpaper to change what she can while she suffers through what she cannot, and transitions that thought to the next stanza. And in the middle of it all, describes the whole scene as a collection of paperdolls (at least as seen through the eyes of the husband, as if his family can be put away and brought out as if they were toys)...wow, some piece of writing. Bob NP: Dylan, "Million Miles" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:44:42 -0500 From: Patti Witten Subject: ATT Jonatha fans-- Carson Daley Jan. 21 ATT Jonatha fans... Patti - -- Patti Witten, Acoustic-Rock http://pattiwitten.com FA, AMA, Indiegrrl, JPF, I-Town Records stream the new CD "Sycamore Tryst" http://sycamoretryst.com - ---------- From: "Jonatha Brooke News" Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:05:33 -0800 To: (Jonatha Brooke News) Subject: Jonatha on Last Call with Carson Daley Jan. 21 Hi Everyone: Don't miss Jonatha singing with Duncan Sheik on the NBC TV program 'Last Call with Carson Daley' airing late Tuesday night, January 21st (okay, technically Wed. morning - it airs after Conan O'Brien) - check your local listings for exact air time. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:47:45 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: DJRD and Stravinsky album covers Striking resemblance,indeed! <> Don't forget the dark-skinned characters that are on both album covers. And you are correct - Joni is a big fan of Stravinsky. Thanks for sharing this wonderful catch! Mia _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:02:31 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: DJRD and Stravinsky album covers In a message dated 1/17/2003 12:47:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, hvnphun16@hotmail.com writes: > Joni is a big fan of Stravinsky. Thanks for sharing > this wonderful catch! The piece that's highlighted on the record jacket (Rite of Spring) was the Stravinsky piece that Joni picked as one of her "Top 12" in 1983. That being said, I didn't see much of an influence from that cover, but it might have been that the colors didn't scan well for me. Still, Raf, thanks for sharing it! Bob NP: Dylan, "Desolation Row" 8/2/65 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:12:11 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: "Yellow checkers for the kitchen" > > My absolute favourite moment from HOSL is the lead > > into "Harry's House/Centerpiece." It gives me chills > > each time I hear it. > >I would wager a guess that it is perhaps Joni's favorite from that project >as well...it's the only HOSL song she did on her '98 tour, not that that's >any kind of real proof. Just that it's one she tends to keep in her >'arsenal'. > >Battalions of paper minded males >Talking commodities and sales >While at home their paper wives >And paper kids >Paper the walls to keep their gut reactions hid > >Yellow checkers for the kitchen > >The way she uses the word "paper"...such a simple word, yet it means one >thing to the husband/businessman, I get chills just reading this..I really do. I love the way she sings this...one of her best renditions. Any covers that do it justice? I would think this one and like you said the other day.."Help Me" very difficult to sing. You know I sound so good when I sing Help Me..along with Joni..but then the stark reality sets in when I go it alone. ECKKKKKKKK! If it was not for Hejira...I think THOSL would be my very favorite. (pretty darn close) Bree >Bob > >NP: Dylan, "Million Miles" _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:26:44 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: "Yellow checkers for the kitchen" In a message dated 1/17/2003 1:12:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com writes: > Any covers that do it justice? The best one is from Anne Haigis. Come to think of it, it's the ONLY one! :~) And it's OK, not really a standout except that Anne's the only one to tackle that song so far. Wonder why? It's not really a PERSONAL song like some of Joni's other work. HOSL & FTR remain undervalued in terms of cover material. Bob NP: Dylan, "Visions of Johanna" 11/30/65 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:22:24 -0800 From: Kent Southard Subject: My favorite Joni song - for Kate My favorite Joni song - without a doubt 'A Song for Sharon.' I've noticed discussion here about when and where Joni fell out of large popular favor, and the consensus seems to be basically after Court and Spark - my sense is that while C&S was still about the life and loves of a young woman, her subsequent albums reflected a woman becoming ever more mature; and I don't think popular culture in this country has much room for that. I think the Hejira album was Joni finally at the peak of fierce independence, and 'A Song for Sharon' shows the breadth and depth of feeling that she has attained as well, and claims as her own. I just love it. - Kent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:07:34 -0500 From: Subject: come in from the COLD Greetings from Toronto, where it is unbelievably cold. I think I have some sort of peculiar flu. I just feel...WEIRD. I haven't posted for awhile, but have been avidly reading all the digests. What an interesting group of people here. Always entertaining and thought-provoking. Some thought of my own. T'LOG must have been very expensive (the players, the orchestra, the packaging). If Joni indeed doesn't sell (TI, TTT and BSN were particularly disappointing, given Joni's '90s return to favour), why did Reprise green-light the project in the first place? T'LOG has gotten some respectable reviews, we must remember that. Would it have gotten more if had been a single CD? Is it bloated? How do people feel about the song selection? I think all of us would have welcomed a few more uptempo pieces, yes? By and large, I really love T'LOG, and find it grows on me with every listen. But I have to admit that I skip a number of songs: SLOUCHING (can't abide those "Head of a man"s! ouch!), LUDWIG (the worst performance of Joni's career; and too bad, because I love the orchestration), TRAIN (too damn busy by half); SEX KILLS (am I the only one who's fairly sick of that song?); and BORDERLINE (never one of my favourites; and not deserving of full orchestration). In my "imaginary" T'LOG, these are replaced by HELP ME, EDITH, SCARLETT, COTTON AVENUE, LOVE PUTS ON A NEW FACE. What is missing for YOU? This Sunday NY Times will no doubt include letters about the Rockwell review (they always appear two Sundays after the review was published). It'll be interesting to see what kind of responses it generated. I imagine he'll be taken to task on a number of levels. Do people here really dislike BSN? I think it's an amazing record myself. Remember when THOSL and HEJIRA first arrived? Wasn't it a thrill opening the package for the first time? CD design is cool, yes, but nothing can beat that large-format art: Joni in the pool; Joni on the sleeve of H as the crow flying, looking for something shiny; the covers of both albums when opened up; the way the words look against the H landscape, with "crow" Joni, with skates in place of claws, about to take flight. Magical! Speaking of HEJIRA, and of T'LOG, I think the new H is the best thing on T'LOG. Among its many pleasures, I really love the sound of Benny Goodman as it is captured here. In closing, La Joni may have lost a lot of power vocally, but -- as Rockwell noted -- there's a new "commucativeness" in her singing. And, as ever, patented Joni "thrills." For me: "Beautiful foolish arms" -- AMELIA "Through a glass darkly" -- LOVE "Oh, where is hope?" -- JOB "You gotta change / And that's not easy" -- TROUBLE CHILD "Not a lot of HELP" -- GMBABM That "oh oh oh" in HEJIRA "Grown up so fast" -- CHINESE CAFE The second, drawn-out "In the Broadwayyyyyyy bridge" in CHEROKEE LOUISE "And the dream of a baby" -- DAWNTREADER "And I fly-y-y away" -- RICHARD "Inside a jar" -- CIRCLE GAME Ah, Joni, I love ya! MICHAEL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:12:24 -0600 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: My Fav... Albums of 2002 I have been holding out on this one! 10. Willie Nelson - Great Divide Cmon Marie Shut up and Kiss me 9. Neil Finn - One Nil 8. Flatlanders - Now Again 7. Diane Krall - Live in Paris 6. Patty Griffin - 1000 Kisses 5. Kasey Chambers - Barricades & Brickwalls 4. Joni - TLOG 3. Bonnie Raitt - Silver Lining 2. Van Morrison - Down The Road 1. James Taylor - October Road Favorite Concerts: Bonnie Raitt - Lyle Lovett Austin City Limits Music Festival (EmmyLou, String Cheese, Patty Griffin, Shawn Colvin, Arc Angel, WC Clark, etc. etc. etc. it was awesome) There were others... Peace, Craig NP: Jonatha.... Jonatha.... Jonatha..... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:12:13 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: come in from the COLD I actually think that Slouching and Judgement of the Moon and Stars are extremely important to Travelogue in that (at least on the first disc) they create this chain of epic songs that compliment each other.. INfact that is why I like Disc One more, from "LOVE" to "For the Roses" each has this bravado and brilliance that outshines the second Disc, despite the fact that it contains "Hejira" and "Refuge". Disc one for me atleast is more consistent. BUt, I can understand about some of the words that Joni hits, from time to time can be a bit grating. I think one song I would add to Disc one would be "The Three Great Stimulants" I can picture it going well with the other epics contained therein. Blair NP: "JUdgement of the Moon and Stars"-Our Lady of Mitchell > >By and large, I really love T'LOG, and find it grows on me >with every listen. But I have to admit that I skip a number of >songs: SLOUCHING (can't abide those "Head of a man"s! >ouch!), LUDWIG (the worst performance of Joni's career; and >too bad, because I love the orchestration), TRAIN (too damn busy >by half); SEX KILLS (am I the only one who's fairly sick of that >song?); and BORDERLINE (never one of my favourites; and >not deserving of full orchestration). > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:58:36 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: The True Bush Agenda In Iraq Hi Kent, Thanks for sending in your interesting post. I agree with a lot of what you wrote, except a few points: 1. Tom Simons denies using the "carpet of gold/carpet of bombs" expression. But he admits they were trying to negotiate the handover of bin Laden for the attack on the USS Cole, and also raised the issue of the treatment of women, and were trying to find out whether the Taliban would be prepared to install a "broader government" as the Americans put it. That might have paved the way for the Americans to do business there. But the predominant thing for the Americans, with Clinton and Bush, was that the Taliban should hand over bin Laden, who was known to be a major threat before September 11. 2. It's not true that America via April Glaspie gave Saddam the green light to invade Kuwait in 1990. She responded to his war ramblings, just before the invasion, during a meeting called suddenly by Saddam, which she was given no warning of, and before which she had no time to contact her government, that "we have no opinion on Arab-Arab disputes". She didn't understand that he was warning her of an invasion, and when you read the very long transcript (and it is flowery language, hard to follow), you can only see that he might have meant this with hindsight. What he was saying is -- don't push me. I helped you with Iran, now help me with my economy. The Kuwaitis are trying to get more money out of me. Please warn them off. And she responded: "We have no opinion on Arab-Arab disputes." Saddam then called a series of meetings with the heads of state from Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Jordan, to which he didn't turn up at the last minute, sending an official in his place. An argument broke out between the Iraqi official and the Kuwaiti Crown Prince. The official left the meeting, telling Saddam that Kuwait had insulted Iraq. Hours later, Saddam invaded. It was all very dramatic and very avoidable. America was caught off-guard by it. 3. The Project for a New American Century (PNAC) is a non-profit organization set up in 1997. What connection do they have, if any, with the Bush administration? 4. Can you refer me to the Cheney/Wolfowitz/Perle plan that was codified by the PNAC in the fall of 2000, and where they stated the need for a new Pearl Harbor? 5. Are you suggesting the Americans had something to do with September 11? 6. You say that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. But in the 80s, everyone said of the rejectionist Palestinian movement (the Palestinians who oppose Arafat) that there's no way they would ever hook up with the Islamists, because the rejectionists were Marxists, secular. But they did, because they needed the money, and even as all the experts were insisting otherwise, the PFLP and PFLP-GC were being funded by Iran. Same with Saddam. You team up with people who can further your interests. Sarah From: Kent Southard It's generally been printed in only the 'better' papers, but this war on Iraq has been desired and planned, by Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, etc., for some years now; as the first step towards American military domination of the oil of the Middle East. Their plan was codified most recently in the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) written in the fall of 2000, in which they openly stated the need for a new 'Pearl Harbor' in order to galvanize American public support for such a plan - this was supplied by 9/11. . . . When Hussein sought to invade Kuwait because they were drilling slantwise under the border, he sought our permission, and our ambassador, April Glaspie, gave it. . . . the Bush administration had re-opened negotiations with the Taliban, cut off by Clinton because of their human rights record, for the building of oil and gas pipelines through Afghanistan; these pipelines providing access to the reserves of the Caspian Sea, thought to be among the world's largest. The Taliban wasn't coming around, so Bush's representative, Tom Simons, told them 'Either accept our carpet of gold, or we will bury you in a carpet of bombs.' . . . Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11, nothing to do with Wahabi fundamentalist terrorism. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:01:57 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Very sorry - Re: The True Bush Agenda In Iraq Sorry to everyone on the joni-only list for not putting NJC on this post. Genuine error! Many apologies!! Sarah >Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:58:36 -0700 >To: cheapbmr@pacbell.net, joni@smoe.org, joni-digest@smoe.org >From: sl.m@shaw.ca >Subject: Re: The True Bush Agenda In Iraq >Cc: >Bcc: >X-Attachments: > >Hi Kent, > >Thanks for sending in your interesting post. I agree with a lot of >what you wrote, except a few points: ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:31:10 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Greatest Hits At 01:54 PM 1/17/2003 -0500, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: >one of the earliest LP's I bought was Elton John's Greatest Hits, and >while it's certainly a fine collection of songs it's not as satisfying as >the whole series of albums...eg ALL of Honky Chateau, not just "Honky >Cat", etc. > >BUT, and this is getting back to Joni's "Hits" as a gateway, starting off >with the Greatest Hits encouraged me to go back and plunder the entire >back catalog of his work. Apologies for not trimming the above completely, but this post has gone back and forth between "JC" and "NJC." Since *this* post will have some JC, I have removed the "NJC" from the header and therefore had to leave in the first paragraph to (hopefully) tie it all together. Whew! :-) Lama brought up an interesting point...a person buys Joni's "Hits" and ends up buying most or all of her back catalog because he loved that introduction. His message to the record company, and to Joni, seemed to be "wake up." I had always been a bit proud of Joni for *not* releasing a "greatest hits" disc, buying into her argument that it would "kill her catalog." And I think it added an aura, a mystique, that she was "above" releasing a greatest hits set. I suppose I believed that her albums were to be taken as a whole, and her career shouldn't be condensed into one disc's worth of "greatest hits." Too, as she has self-effacingly stated before, she "never had any hits." I believe this refers to no "top-of-the-charts" singles, which are the usual mainstays of any musician's "greatest hits" album. Nevertheless, I couldn't fully understand her reasoning, and still don't, if her stance on the issue is the same. Here we have living proof of someone getting acquainted with her craft through the "Hits" disc and having it propel them deeply into this world of Joni appreciation. I do wonder, though, for each person like our new poster who started with "Hits" and purchased most/all of her other albums, how many started with, say, "C&S," or "Blue," or even something later, like "TI," and really liked the material and then went out and bought from her back catalog. Probably enough so that she *has* and *can* continue to resist putting out the typical "greatest hits" disc. I guess the question is, how to you get someone who isn't familiar with her work to take that first step, and which album should they be steered toward. What are we trying to accomplish? We want to not only enjoy the music ourselves, we want to turn others on to it, help sell more records, and thereby support the artist as best we can. For Joni Mitchell, is the best vehicle for all of this a "greatest hits" album or is it an individual "whole" album? I surely don't know! While the record companies must love these stories about someone going out and buying 20-plus albums, I like to think that for Joni, it's not just the sales of these albums, it's the converts. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:52:38 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Greatest Hits In a message dated 1/17/2003 4:30:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, sp@olympus.net writes: > Nevertheless, I couldn't fully understand her reasoning, and still don't, > if her stance on the issue is the same. Good points all, Scott...there are plenty of reasons why "Hits" & "Misses" is a good idea. First, the aforementioned "Gateway" idea. They DO make a nice introductory piece to newcomers about Joni's work, and will most likely prompt a few 'oh, I didn't know ahe wrote THAT' sorta comments, and as such are nice gifts from those of us who may want to be Jonivangelists, or at least recommend. Giving someone a single release could be misleading...imagine someone getting STAS, deciding they like Joni, and picking up Mingus or DED next...they'd be pretty surprised! Matter of fact, I haven't gotten around to picking up Hits or Misses myself. No sense in it, except for UFG which I already have on another cd anyway. Bob NP: Steve Earle, "Conspiracy Theory" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:18:04 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: I'm a bitch about political content in JMDL postings Lori, I'm serious. Whatever happened to the statue? And I don't want to annoy you, but do YOU really like Travelogue? Sure, there are some great Joni songs that are pleasant enough to listen to. But, if you had to choose, would you really prefer them to the original versions? And, if you had to choose the songs that were going to be on that album, done in that manner, would you not have chosen some other songs. I have to admit I am perplexed by Joni's choices here and it kills me to hit that button on my CD forward, but I do it. All this talk about Travelogue makes me want to puke too. No matter how much anyone loves or hates it, there isn't anyone on the planet that will convince me that they don't want more original music by Joni. Joni writing, Joni playing guitar and Joni singing. And whatever happened to Joni playing piano? I fully respect Joni making Travelogue and doing whatever the f--- she wants to do. I LOVE her voice and know she plays a hell of a guitar. I welcome anything she puts out and hope she writes some more great songs. There is no way in hell her well is dry. It's probably just a matter of if she wants to put the energy into recording them and putting up with record company "cesspool" shit. Lately, I've been listening to Turbulent Indigo, which I listened to when it was released, but am revisiting. I am totally enthralled with "The Magdelene Laundries", and it's such a thrill discovering a great JM song like I did 20 - - 30 years ago. I find myself driving to work trying to learn every word to sing it properly. I haven't done that in a long time. Most of the songs I know. I believe that what I am saying is that it has been so wonderful discovering and loving a new song by Joni, that moves me, after 30 years, I can hope for more, can't I? Or at least let me buy one of her landscape paintings? Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:23:04 -0500 From: CoyoteRick@aol.com Subject: Announcement -- JoniFest LA -- June 6-8, 2003 All of your pals here on the West Coast are planning the first ever JoniFest LA on June 6-8, 2003. This event, intended for West Coast folks (but all are certainly welcome), promises to be a hoot! Here's the preliminary agenda: Friday Night: Barbecue at Rick and Brad's -- casual music, visiting, partying! Saturday Day: The Dulson's Historic Music Tour of LA (by car caravan)concluding with a Malibu picnic lunch Saturday Night: The music night -- all arranged by a special guest to LA! Sunday Brunch: Farewell Brunch, music and more! The committee's goal is to keep event costs as low as possible. All food (except brunch) will be free and all events will be BYO(B) or whatever. Plan no more than $50 for event costs -- we are trying to do even better... We are planning some terrific surprises!! We have contacted hotels in the Hollywood area and have three willing to give special rates. Everything from a funky/cool youth hostel ($15/night) to a middle class ($60-$90/night) to the top of the heap ($180+/night). You will be responsible for making your own hotel arrangements. We'll provide the list to all those who are interested in coming, but after March 1, when it is finalized. LA's public transportation situation isn't all that bad. We will provide bus schedules/routes, subway schedules, and travel tips. You can get from the airport to the identified hotels for $1.35 using MTA. If you don't rent a car, we'll arrange transportation to/from events. Sure it's easier to have your own wheels, but for the budget conscious -- we have alternatives! If you are interested in attending this event, please email me privately. Give me a high/medium/low likelihood rating. We would like to have an idea of how many folks we may be expecting as we continue the committee's work. Have a great weekend! CoyoteRick ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 00:04:07 -0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: My Epiphany - HOSL Wow that's funny 'Jungle Line' was one of the songs on HOSL that took me the longest to like. Same with 'In france', 'Sweet Bird' and 'Shadows & Light'. Love them all now though. Listening to this album really is like learning a new language. It never sounds the same! Different sounds jump out at me every time. Stephen Toogood NP: And When I Die ~ Laura Nyro "God goes up the cimney Like childhood Santa Claus The good slaves love the good book A rebel loves a cause" - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 9:25 PM Subject: Re: My Epiphany - HOSL > Stephen, > > It took me over two years to appreciate HOSL. For some reason I just couldn't get it. Loved Hejira immediately, but for the life of me I couldn't get HOSL - accept for Jungle Line - loved that immediately. Only through the persistance of a good friend did I finally come to appreciate this album, and then it was "Damn, why didn't I like this all along?" > > Jack ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 00:29:28 -0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: HITS I love the cover of HITS. I thought to myself that's quite clever what she has done and also I love B/W photography, and with MISSES I thought well she's got guts! I am glad that she did wait so long to do the compilations! I remember thinking wow these songs are from so many different albums. How consistent. It also made me think she is about the music rather than cashing in. If she had released a 'Best Of' in the states after THOSL she would have made a fortune no doubt. One thing about HITS & MISSES; each CD is about an hour long so I think (know) she has enough good songs to have fit a few more on. Considering it was over a 20 odd year period too. Something from DJRD would have been nice. Stephen Toogood NP: Cotton Avenue ~ Joni "God goes up the cimney Like childhood Santa Claus The good slaves love the good book A rebel loves a cause" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 00:32:32 -0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: My Epiphany, sjc Yep thats right. Sometimes I wish I had more years behind me so I could have experienced Joni first hand or even seen her play live! That's whats so great about the list though I can share all your experiences. Stephen Toogood NP: Wedding Bell Blues ~ Laura Nyro "God goes up the cimney Like childhood Santa Claus The good slaves love the good book A rebel loves a cause" Jim L'Hommedieu wrote:- > Your first Joni album was 'hits'? Did I read this > correctly? That's amazing to me because it was so > recent. > > Your whole history with Joni, then, is completely > within the life of the JMDL! I was an isolated fan > for decades before Les finally got off his duff. > Funny. > > Lama > > > > --- Stephen Toogood wrote: > > We I got HITS first of all after being intrigued by > > her art work and the > > fact she had so many albums and I'd never heard of > > her! > > I refused to believe that 'Harry's House...' was the > > only good track on > > THOSL so I went back to it and bit by bit it got > > through to me and since > > then the album has only ever sounded divine. After > > that I eventually got > > every Joni album! > > > > So I guess it was THOSL that made me realise that > > her music grows and is > > timeless. > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 00:32:40 -0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: re;talking about Joni Mitchell with my writing group Maureen, I think most people in the UK didn't get passed BLUE! Stephen Toogood NP: Goodbye Joe ~ Laura Nyro "God goes up the cimney Like childhood Santa Claus The good slaves love the good book A rebel loves a cause" - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 2:14 AM Subject: re;talking about Joni Mitchell with my writing group > Yesterday at my writing group I mentioned Joni Mitchell to one of the members > of the group. This woman loves poetry and is a good writer. We started > talking about music and I asked her about Joni's writing-what she thought. > She told me she never really listened to her but disliked the few hits she > had. I told her about Joni's poetry and how well she wrote. She said,":You > sound just like this friend I used to teach with. he said she was the best > too." I told her I would copy some of her songs and she could read the lyrics > for herself. When our break was over I went over to the table and told > another member that we discussing Joni Mitchell and he said he had never > heard of her! He's about 60 or so and was a professor etc etc. My personal > experience is that most people know little or nothing about her work or > stopped listening after Court and Spark. > > Maureen Walsh ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 00:32:56 -0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: "Yellow checkers for the kitchen" "Bree Mcdonough" wrote:- > My absolute favourite moment from HOSL is the lead > into "Harry's House/Centerpiece." It gives me chills > each time I hear it. I so know what you mean. Also the instrumental build up before she starts with "Yellow checkers for the kitchen..." Wow and even better with headphones. Stephen Toogood NP: Stoney End ~ Laura Nyro "God goes up the cimney Like childhood Santa Claus The good slaves love the good book A rebel loves a cause" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 20:37:27 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Iron Eyes Cody (sorry, no pc, rc or wc) I've just been surfing around the urban legends reference pages (www.snopes.com), and found a fascinating piece about Iron Eyes Cody, looking at the question of whether he was actually a Native American. I'd never heard of him until he cropped up on Lakota, singing that haunting intro; my enjoyment of that was tempered by the knowledge that Joni and her crew had recorded him singing the intro, then put it through the Fairlight so they could change the key to bring it into line with the song and chop it up to make it sound as if he was singing BVs throughout the track. Sacrilege, I thought! I had these worthy thoughts that some sacred chant of his had been desecrated. Well, I still think that a bit, but I know now that Ol' Iron Eyes wasn't quite all he seemed either... Azeem in London NP: Aimee Mann - Lost in Space ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 21:11:56 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: HITS In a message dated 1/17/2003 7:33:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, steve@hatstand.org writes: > I love the cover of HITS. I thought to myself that's quite clever what she > has done and also I love B/W photography, and with MISSES I thought well > she's got guts! > > I just this week discovered the "Hits & Misses" website that Wally constructed. It has some alternative photos, it's cool. Go to JoniMitchell.com & have a look if you haven't seen it already. Bob NP: Andy Partridge, "Fuzzy Warbles Volume 1" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 21:29:25 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: come in from the COLD In a message dated 1/17/2003 2:08:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, mtotzke@gosympatico.ca writes: > TRAIN (too damn busy > by half); Plus the original was so fun, and the T'Log version just makes it so dreary. > SEX KILLS (am I the only one who's fairly sick of that > song?); It's a damn fine song BUT certainly not with an orchestral arrangement!! What were they thinking? It's an angry song, it needs to be more electric, with a more venomous production, and more energy, and much more uptempo. It amazes me that nobody knew this one was such an awful marriage, or maybe nobody had the guts to speak up, or maybe they did & Joni vetoed them, Either way, it's just a real bad decision. Same with Cherokee Louise & FTR, these are INTIMATE and personal songs, not orchestral songs...to subject them to this treatment almost feels like parody. > In my "imaginary" T'LOG, these are replaced by HELP ME, > EDITH, SCARLETT, COTTON AVENUE, LOVE PUTS ON > A NEW FACE. What is missing for YOU? New songs! ;~) Seriously - Shadows & Light (this got the Lyle Mays synth treatment on the live record; would be nice to hear it with a real and full string section) And for all the beating it takes, DED has some good songs on it, and there was an opportunity with T'log to revisit and re-produce some of them without the 80's cliches. I'd go with Impossible Dreamer as my top pick in this category. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 21:54:45 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: HITS just this week discovered the "Hits &Misses" website that Wally constructed. It has some alternative photos, it's cool. Go to JoniMitchell.com &have a look if you haven't seen it already. I forgot how darn hard to find this thing was - probably why I had never seen it before! :~) Anyway, here is the path: http://www.jonimitchell.com/HMMain96.html Bob NP: Andy Partridge, "I Bought Myself A Liarbird" (demo) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 22:03:06 -0500 From: "Arlene T." Subject: Re: Greatest Hits If I'm not mistaken, I believe the reason Joni released those records was to fulfill a contractual obligation. - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 5:52 PM Subject: Re: Greatest Hits : In a message dated 1/17/2003 4:30:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, sp@olympus.net : writes: : : > Nevertheless, I couldn't fully understand her reasoning, and still don't, : > if her stance on the issue is the same. : : Good points all, Scott...there are plenty of reasons why "Hits" & "Misses" is : a good idea. First, the aforementioned "Gateway" idea. They DO make a nice : introductory piece to newcomers about Joni's work, and will most likely : prompt a few 'oh, I didn't know ahe wrote THAT' sorta comments, and as such : are nice gifts from those of us who may want to be Jonivangelists, or at : least recommend. Giving someone a single release could be : misleading...imagine someone getting STAS, deciding they like Joni, and : picking up Mingus or DED next...they'd be pretty surprised! : : Matter of fact, I haven't gotten around to picking up Hits or Misses myself. : No sense in it, except for UFG which I already have on another cd anyway. : : Bob : : NP: Steve Earle, "Conspiracy Theory" : ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 22:05:20 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Greatest Hits In a message dated 1/17/2003 10:03:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, hejira57@worldnet.att.net writes: > If I'm not mistaken, I believe the reason Joni released those records was to > fulfill > a contractual obligation. > You're not mistaken; Joni finally capitulated on the "Hits" but would only allow it if she got to release the "Misses" as well. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 22:16:51 -0500 From: "Arlene T." Subject: I'm a bitch about political content in JMDL postings Andrea, I totally agree with your criticisms. And I love "Magdalene Laundries" as well. Finally a melody worthy of Joni! But Joni really lost me when she started using that electronic guitar that holds all her tunings. I can understand why she would use it, but its sound, to my ear, is horrible. As for her piano playing, I was never a big fan of her technique; there are far far better pianists. But an acoustic guitar or a dulcimer - ahhh. In any event, I was fortunate enough to have seen her live twice: once during her "For The Roses" tour and then again during the "Miles of Aisles" tour. She was animated, in great voice, dancing in that weird way of hers. So I have those memories, and of course the older albums, to hang on to. Cheers, Arlene - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 7:18 PM Subject: I'm a bitch about political content in JMDL postings : Lori, : : I'm serious. Whatever happened to the statue? And I don't want to annoy : you, but do YOU really like Travelogue? Sure, there are some great Joni : songs that are pleasant enough to listen to. But, if you had to choose, : would you really prefer them to the original versions? And, if you had to : choose the songs that were going to be on that album, done in that manner, : would you not have chosen some other songs. I have to admit I am perplexed : by Joni's choices here and it kills me to hit that button on my CD forward, : but I do it. : : All this talk about Travelogue makes me want to puke too. No matter how much : anyone loves or hates it, there isn't anyone on the planet that will convince : me that they don't want more original music by Joni. Joni writing, Joni : playing guitar and Joni singing. And whatever happened to Joni playing : piano? I fully respect Joni making Travelogue and doing whatever the f--- : she wants to do. I LOVE her voice and know she plays a hell of a guitar. I : welcome anything she puts out and hope she writes some more great songs. : There is no way in hell her well is dry. It's probably just a matter of if : she wants to put the energy into recording them and putting up with record : company "cesspool" shit. : : Lately, I've been listening to Turbulent Indigo, which I listened to when it : was released, but am revisiting. I am totally enthralled with "The Magdelene : Laundries", and it's such a thrill discovering a great JM song like I did 20 : - 30 years ago. I find myself driving to work trying to learn every word to : sing it properly. I haven't done that in a long time. Most of the songs I : know. I believe that what I am saying is that it has been so wonderful : discovering and loving a new song by Joni, that moves me, after 30 years, I : can hope for more, can't I? : : Or at least let me buy one of her landscape paintings? : : Andrea : ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:40:38 -0600 (CST) From: courtandspark@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Re: My Epiphany, sjc Hello all. I have missed you more than I can possibly write here. Just watched a biography on the Bee Gees. Saddened by the loss of Maurice more than I could express. Personal sadness has me in its clutches as well. Far from home with no one to turn to, personally; no one to touch. The only solace I could think of, the only place to which I could run was my home here. Here, I know you understand. I know that, here, you will hold me tight and not let me go, not let me down, not when I need you most. Have read all the posts, of late, with interest. And no, as someone wrote again, they don't understand. They don't understand Joni, they don't understand us, and they don't understand the basic truths of what makes life, love, and the need to feel what we do so integral to our survival. If I could, on this night, I would crawl inside all of you and there I know it would be okay, for here I don't know that. I am afraid and fear is something that has not visited me in such a long, long time that I don't know what to do. I will let your arms hold me tight on this cold, lonely, sad Wisconsin night. mack - -------Original Message------- From: Stephen Toogood Sent: 01/17/03 06:32 PM To: Joni List , Jim L'Hommedieu Subject: Re: My Epiphany, sjc > > Yep thats right. Sometimes I wish I had more years behind me so I could have experienced Joni first hand or even seen her play live! That's whats so great about the list though I can share all your experiences. Stephen Toogood NP: Wedding Bell Blues ~ Laura Nyro "God goes up the cimney Like childhood Santa Claus The good slaves love the good book A rebel loves a cause" Jim L'Hommedieu wrote:- > Your first Joni album was 'hits'? Did I read this > correctly? That's amazing to me because it was so > recent. > > Your whole history with Joni, then, is completely > within the life of the JMDL! I was an isolated fan > for decades before Les finally got off his duff. > Funny. > > Lama > > > > --- Stephen Toogood wrote: > > We I got HITS first of all after being intrigued by > > her art work and the > > fact she had so many albums and I'd never heard of > > her! > > I refused to believe that 'Harry's House...' was the > > only good track on > > THOSL so I went back to it and bit by bit it got > > through to me and since > > then the album has only ever sounded divine. After > > that I eventually got > > every Joni album! > > > > So I guess it was THOSL that made me realise that > > her music grows and is > > timeless. > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 21:08:25 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: The Statue & Travelogue (was: I'm a bitch about political content in JMDL postings) > I'm serious. Whatever happened to the statue? As far as I know, Andrea, the statue fund exists and is still accepting contributions - Sarah? That's correct, yes? Any updates? > And I don't want to annoy you, but do YOU really like Travelogue? I do. Like probably everyone else here, I would prefer some new material from Joni, but that doesn't diminish my enjoyment of Travelogue. > But, if you had to choose, would you really prefer them to the > original versions? I like "Sex Kills" a whole lot better this time around. Although I have to admit that it wasn't a favorite of mine on TI, and still isn't. I know Joni had something important to say with that song, but it just never "did it" for me. In any case, I do like the new version better. As for the rest of the cuts: for me, the new arrangements stand on their own. I try to avoid comparing them to the original recordings. I enjoy them for what they are. They sound "fresh" to me. > And, if you had to choose the songs that were going to be on that > album, done in that manner, would you not have chosen some other > songs. Hmm ... how about "Ethiopia"? ; ) Have we done a poll about this yet? What songs would you have chosen? (Everyone, please feel free to participate.) Regarding the comment I made to you about being so tired of the T'log discussion that I could puke ... hey, that was for your eyes only! : ) But now that it's out there, yes, I've skipped most of the posts about T'log because: a) I quickly tired of all the complaints about Joni's voice and the product itself, b) I quickly became bored (annoyed, really) with all the "technical" analysis of the production and musicianship - that sort of thing usually strikes me as SO arrogant and pretentious, and c) I stand by my heartfelt opinion that I'm just happy that Joni chooses (chose?) to continue to share her music with us, whatever form it takes. Hurling aside, here I am resurrecting the T'log discussion yet again, and I'm sure I've just raised a few eyebrows if not hackles ... so ... Fire away! Lori ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #18 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)