From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #395 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, December 16 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 395 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #570 -- vocal theories [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Travelogue lyric additions Etc. [BRIANASYMES@aol.com] Re: Joni's voice JC ["RSM" ] Re: Joni's voice JC [] Re: Execution of anti-Travelogers? ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] MINORITY report [] Fw: 20th Century Masters +Joni ["Christopher Treacy" ] Re: Detroit in 68, Tori Amos, G.Nash SJC [Randy Remote ] Joni's voice ["Kate Bennett" ] shadesofscarlett ["blonde in the bleachers" ] Travelogue reviews continued...... [ATaublib@aol.com] StarPhoenix story about Joni's statue, Dec 16th [sl.m@shaw.ca] Joni EP ["Paul Castle" ] [none] ["William Chavez" ] Fwd: Joni Statue [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: shadesofscarlett [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Fwd: Joni Statue [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] susan tedeschi again ["Yael" ] singing "river" ["Yael" ] Re: shadesofscarlett [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Joni's voice [Little Bird ] "Your notch IS liberation, doll" [Little Bird ] r: 20th Century Masters and Joni ["William C. Burnworth/Tim Callaghan" ] Re: Travelogue on the Shelf [AzeemAK@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 03:20:01 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #570 -- vocal theories In a message dated 12/16/2002 12:02:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > Yes, a lot of this is due to a declining voice for whatever reason, > >but do you really think Joni didn't listen to her vocals before she put > out > >this project. Absolutely she did!!!!!!!!! I listen to this project > knowing one thing, > >that her vocal delivery is ALL intentional I'm sure she listened to the project before releasing it. I'm sure she realizes her voice has changed and now has limitations and weaknesses. But I have a hunch, perhaps unreasonalble and wacky -- or perhaps true -- that Joni is somewhat delusional or in denial about the degree to which, at times, she sounds off, way off. Otherwise, how in the world could someone who cares so profoundly about her art, and cares so much about what others think of her art, have allowed the vocal performance on the new recording of Judgement of the Moon and Stars (in its entirety) or Sex Kills (the closing moments) to be included in such a lovely, meticulously crafted project? Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 03:25:56 EST From: BRIANASYMES@aol.com Subject: Travelogue lyric additions Etc. In "Refuge of the Roads" She adds "Theives" after Winn Dixie Coldcuts, it does add something to the picture of the Drifters shes hanging out with. In an ealier post a long time back, somebody from Motown did ID "Richard' as a musician that played in the same cafes as Joni. It is not Chuck he is still is living those Cafe Days in the Detroit Area. for those on the List that need a picture of Chuck think a rather rugged Glen Campbell with a voice like Robert Goulet, Chuck was rather good on the 12 string Guitar. One song that has stuck in my mind all these years goes like this "Please show me the way to the next Whiskey Bar". Its way to late now goodnight OH Kate B I think your newspaper review of "Travelogue" was highly subjective I bet you like Roses and Kisses and pretty men to telling you, opps I must be Cynical and Drunk, sorry to much So Cal Cabernet. NP:JM Travelogue Border Line ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 04:25:22 -0800 From: "RSM" Subject: Re: Joni's voice JC Will: I think there is a lot of truth when you speak of JM's maturity as a singer and the growing character of her voice. I like Joni's jazz interpretations and voice now far greater than in the past. It would be wonderful to hear her redo Mingus. And JM's maturing jazz sensibilities as an explanation for allowing others the freedom to explore and create (and even fail, at times) is very insightful. The act of doing is its own reward, regardless of how it is received. Ron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 21:03:31 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: Joni's voice JC Thanks Will for the post. I agree mostly with it. I go for the likes of Alberta Hunter, Ida Cox and Abbey Lincoln whose voices may not be Ella Fitzgerald- or June Christy-pure but achieves a level of intensity through economies of scale. That being said, I like the husk in Joni's voice in BSN. Though T'log has yet to come to our shores here in the Philippines, I listened to some of the tracks in the Net and I agree that her range has been limited further. But for some reason, I like that ravaged voice even better. As though she storytells to us her songs and her vocal understatements are even more authentic (for me) and seem to have a hue that I usually associate with wise old(er) women who has seen much in life. I may be saying quite the opposite when T'log finally arrives here in Manila and I may even join the group in the List who objectively admitted that T'log, given its obvious merits, somehow floundered. Confession: I know of people who don't want to read reviews before they themselves listen the album, but I read almost all the rveiws for T'log in the List and from my "outsider" perspective, I can almost hear the entire album just by the expressions. Eagerly awaiting T'log's travelogue in Manila Joseph np: Kate Bush "The Kick Inside" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 09:55:37 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: Execution of anti-Travelogers? Always happy to help out. Susan's face can be seen performing at JoniFest 2002 at: http://www.hatstand.org/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album09&page=3 Lama ps, don't worry too much about having a disagreement. Except for stalking incidents, it's all quickly forgiven and forgotten. As a wise woman once said, "He comes for con-ver-sa-tion." Will said, No Susan, since our recent "tiff" I've actually noticed that you are one of the ones with the biggest sense of humor on this list. I really mean that. It is just difficult to match up things said with a face until there is a discrepancy that makes you stand out. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:06:03 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: 20th Century Masters +Joni Little Bird wrote: > Does anyone know why there is not a compilation of > Joni's work for this "Millennium Collection" of 20th > Century Masters? They have a compilation CD for just > about every single act out there, most of them totally > undeserving of the "Masters" title. Why is Joni not > among them? My guess would be that Joni has not given them permission to do so. Jerry np: Shawn Colvin - In the Bleak Midwinter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 09:37:30 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: For Free - ick The best For Free to me is the live version she performed with the beautifully evocative extra chorus. She adds this at the end of the normal verses: Playing like a fallen angel Playing like a rising star Playing for a hatful of nothing To the honking of the cars. It changes the whole song for me in good ways - can't really explain it but it is breathtaking. It would be great if she would record a clean version. I believe she did this on the '83 Refuge tour. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:11:51 -0500 From: Subject: MINORITY report Hmmm. I find the more I listen to T'LOG, the more I like it -- but I guess I'm in the minority. I know it ain't perfect (I skip some songs, as I think most of us do), but I find it very moving. Here is this incredible 59-year-old woman looking back on her life -- a life very fully lived -- and inviting us along on the ride. The voice "fits," for me. Joni isn't 45, let alone 35. And: she's the only Joni we've got. I for one am so glad that she's still in the game. For now. MICHAEL in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 13:50:47 -0500 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: Fw: 20th Century Masters +Joni - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Treacy" To: "Jerry Notaro" Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 1:50 PM Subject: Re: 20th Century Masters +Joni > I know the series you speak of - have Dusty Springfield and a few others... > > Joni has been very strict about liscensing her tunes for usage in anything > like that series...being that she owns her own publishing company for her > music, she has an unusual amount of artistic control over what happens to > her compositions. She didn't want much to do with Hits & Misses, let alone > something like the 20th Century series, where she wouldn't have much of a > hand in the production at all. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Notaro" > To: "Little Bird" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 10:06 AM > Subject: Re: 20th Century Masters +Joni > > > > Little Bird wrote: > > > > > Does anyone know why there is not a compilation of > > > Joni's work for this "Millennium Collection" of 20th > > > Century Masters? They have a compilation CD for just > > > about every single act out there, most of them totally > > > undeserving of the "Masters" title. Why is Joni not > > > among them? > > > > My guess would be that Joni has not given them permission to do so. > > > > Jerry > > > > np: Shawn Colvin - In the Bleak Midwinter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 18:31:49 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Travelogue on the Shelf As some JMDLers have pointed out, there are at least 2 redeeming qualities to T: 1. Joni's strange tunings played by an orchestra. Focusing on this kept me from falling asleep. 2. T is made for those who never heard Joni. Great, this way we'll come across as more "mainstream" and less "weird" when playing T as background music to non-admirers of the QUOMB. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:45:38 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Detroit in 68, Tori Amos, G.Nash SJC BRIANASYMES@aol.com wrote: > > Mr. Nash came on KINK fm here in Portland pushing his book on "Song Writers", This is the first I have heard of this book. I went to Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0740726781/qid=1040063950/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-3423333-7736747?v=glance&s=books "Songwriters on Songwriting" is a $30 hardcover, comes with 2 CD's of interviews, including Graham talking about Joni and the writing of "Our House". The book discusses 25 popular songs and their influence on the "culture". Also includes many photos including Nash's work. All 15 reader reviews (save one) gave it 5 stars, including "a reader" from Los Angeles....hmmmm..... RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:49:30 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Nash: correction the correct title of the book is "Off The Record: Songwriters on Songwriting" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:44:33 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Joni's voice don't think anyone has yet mentioned this but one of my favorite moments in t'log is be cool when joni sings 'don't whiiiiiine'... i always lol when i hear this... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 13:28:48 -0500 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: shadesofscarlett just some things that have been on my mind lately: * I am more and more convinced that in Don't Interrupt the Sorrow 'notches' is notches on the bedpost--meaning her sexuality is her liberation, but she will always be tied to the wall because she is a woman and there will always be the double standard (which is crap) * You can't listen to Help Me without listening to Free Man in Paris it is like listening to Zeppellin II and hearing Heartbreaker and Living Loving Maid (even classic rock stations don't play one without the other) * I am glad not one song off of THOSL is on Travelogue these songs are all exceptional and don't need any kind of orchestration or rehashing * I may be in the minority but I love the first CD of T'log much more than the second one * I would be surprised if the statue of Joni does not have a cigarette, and really see no problem with it either, there is a statue of Red Auerbach in Government Center (Boston) and he has a cigar, not exactly healthy but everytime I walk by it there are a bunch of kids getting their picture taken on his lap by their parents and he is just some guy who ran a successful basketball team ;) * I am scared of Bjork's remake of The Boho Dance and will do everything in my power to never ever listen to it * Finally, I think if Joni were a man then her criticisms of the cesspool that the music industry has become would be a lot more respected as opposed to the people who think she is just bitching to bitch - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 12:38:29 EST From: Kardinel@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #570 It is not true that cats hang themselves from having a collar. I used to volunteer with the humane society and it's a myth. Get a stretchy collar and a name tag and for God's sake keep the cat in a safe place until you find out who did it. Maureen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:41:53 -0500 From: "Erica L. Trudelle" Subject: Re: shadesofscarlett blonde-in-the-bleachers wrote: * Finally, I think if Joni were a man then her criticisms of the cesspool that the music industry has become would be a lot more respected as opposed to the people who think she is just bitching to bitch I agree 100%! Well you know, an angry man is just an angry man, but an angry woman's a bitch..... Erica _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:55:02 EST From: ATaublib@aol.com Subject: Travelogue reviews continued...... In a message dated 12/16/2002 3:01:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > Well, in order to keep balance in the universe, I brought my copy out again > - > But now I've got it in the player beside my bed, to listen to as I drift > off. > Worked pretty well last night. > > Bob Unfortunately, after repeated listenings, most of the songs are become more and more tiring. "Love" is a favorite of mine. Her nuanced singing brings shades to the song I didn't see in it's first incarnation (WTRF). On the other hand, I just cannot listen to "The last time I saw Richard" one more time. I find it leaden--almost imploding from it's own weight. I'm finding so many of the cuts on this work like the latter rather then the former. I've consoled myself by pulling Turbulent Indigo and Taming the Tiger out of the CD rack and it just gets better and better and better with each listening. Albert T. New York ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:00:43 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: StarPhoenix story about Joni's statue, Dec 16th The StarPhoenix, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Monday, December 16, 2002 By Darren Bernhardt of The StarPhoenix A fund has been set up in Saskatoon to raise money for a bronze statue to honour Joni Mitchell, one of Saskatoon's most famous daughters, and it's getting international support. The initiative was undertaken by Sarah Gibb, an expatriate Englander who moved to the city last year and has been a longtime fan of the accomplished painter, poet, singer and songwriter. "My first thought when I saw the downtown was, 'What, no Joni Mitchell statue?'" she said. "She's known all over the world and whether you like her music or not, there's no denying she's been tremendously influential on a whole generation of artists. I was amazed Saskatoon wasn't celebrating her. "I at least expected plaques saying, 'This is where Joni Mitchell lived' and 'This is where she went to school' and 'This is where she first sang in public'. We do this in England with our novelists, artists and historical figures, and it often injects a lot of visitors into an area because they want to see where Charles Dickens stayed when he wrote Bleak House or whatever." Mitchell is in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and listed No. 5 on VHI's list of The 100 Greatest Women of Rock and Roll. She was given the Order of Canada earlier this year, the nation's highest honour for lifetime achievement. Gibb was inspired to take action after reading a StarPhoenix story about a British Columbia man who wrote a letter to Saskatoon city council suggesting the council commission a statue. Mark Salzl was raised in Paradise Hill but plans to eventually move from B.C. to Saskatoon, which he calls his "home city". But a program doesn't exist for commissioning artwork. Salzl was told to look into private sponsorships. Recognizing the difficulty of campaigning two provinces away, Gibb took up the venture. A committee was created consisting of Gibb, Salzl and Les Irvin, founder of a Joni Mitchell Web site and discussion list (www.jmdl.com) in California. "Already, in response to the fund being set up, fans on the discussion list are talking about a pilgrimage to Saskatoon to have photographs taken with the statue," said Gibb. Salzl is amazed his suggestion garnered so much attention and that the process has begun. "I have to chuckle about the power of one little letter," he said. "But I don't think it would have happened so quick if Sarah didn't take it up. I'm very pleased," he said, adding he has received e-mails of encouragement from people in San Francisco. The committee's effort is The Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself Fund, stemming from an interview two weeks ago when Joni Mitchell talked about a bench with a statue of herself sitting at one end. She remarked that when she came here and sat on the bench, she could literally be beside herself. She expressed a preference for something that wasn't "on a pedestal" because it's not her style. It should be functional "where people could sit and muse," she said. The good-humoured Mitchell often visits her parents, who still live here. She said a statue would be an honour as well as "a place for birds to perch." Gibb and the rest of the committee members plan to approach local businesses for donations, as well as city council "who we hope will give us permission to locate the statue in a prominent place," she said. "We would love to see it overlooking the river near the Bessborough Hotel, as Joni Mitchell has the Bessborough featured on the cover of one of her early albums, Clouds." Another option is to have it in Broadway, where Mitchell started her singing career in the Louis Riel coffee house, as it was known then. Calories now occupies that spot. Regardless of where the statue goes, the coffee house site should have a commemorative plaque, said Gibb. The committee is in the process of approaching artists to have a campaign poster designed for distribution around the city. Joe Farfard, the Saskatchewan sculptor whose work in bronze is known internationally, has told the committee he is interested in doing the piece. "We don't know when we'll be in a position to commission something, as we have no idea how long it will take to raise the money," said Gibb. "We estimate we're going to need $100,000-$120,000, and so far we have $175. But we're determined to raise the rest." If anyone would like to help, the committee can be reached at BesideHerself@shaw.ca. Donations can be made directly to the fund at the Saskatoon Credit Union, Broadway Avenue branch, account number 7230444. Or cheques and money orders can be sent to Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself, P.O. Box 22100 (RPO Wildwood), Saskatoon, S7H 5P1. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 16:15:22 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Joni EP Spotted this on a US radio playlist > Joni Mitchell: Chinese Cafe/Unchained Melody > (6-song EP from Travelogue), Nonesuch 301000 Is this generally available in the States? Or just for radio, anyone know? PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 15:49:19 -0500 From: "William Chavez" Subject: [none] Hey Susan Hey if that was your purse, then what do you keep in there? Bricks!?:) I'm not real into Wild Turkey, I'm more of a Southern Comfort kind of guy. Janis and I would have done well together. Yes I do know who Ceasar Chavez is but we are not realated. My family is from the Canary Island Spain and I'm pretty sure he is a full blooded Mexican. Usually Mexicans carry an "s" at the end but for some reason he had a "z". He probably had a Spaniard in his background somewhere. I have a friend in Chicago that hid him for awile back in the sixties. Will _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 16:08:02 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Joni Statue Return-path: From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Full-name: MINGSDANCE Message-ID: <1c4.300388f.2b2b5b23@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:47:47 EST Subject: Joni Statue To: BesideHerself@shaw.ca. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.97c X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Dear Committee Members: I have two photos of Joni taken at the 2000 Both Sides Now tour in West Palm Beach which I would like to submit for consideration. Each was published in the JoniMitchell.com Both Sides Now Tour Report, entitled "Mars Music Amphitheater West Palm Beach, FL 5/17/2000". I believe both of these photos depict a very lovely, statuesque Joni. The one where she's looking up is particularly reverent. Her shimmering hair and the pleated detail of her gown electrifies her image, presenting an artistic challenge to the sculptor which would age beautifully. I am often taken aback by the staring eyes of bronze statues, and believe that her pose looking up with eyes closed would enhance, and not detract from, this tribute. We remember Joni from our youth - -- many fond memories of her past like images in a cherished album. Yet it is today's Joni, as she has evolved, which should be immortalized. These photos present her in this light. I was privileged to be designated the JoniMitchell.com photographer at her Atlanta 1998 birthday concert and the 2000 Palm Beach event. I also attended her Mendel Art Gallery opening "Voices" in Saskatoon in 2000. I shall send you the photos described above along with several of my favorites taken at these venues. I will admit that I have no photos of Joni sitting on a bench. We were all amused by her comment that if she were sculpted sitting on a bench she could come sit besides herself -- hence, the name of this project. Although this would be a whimsical presentation, I believe Joni's work deserving of a more formal tribute and one which would be well received long after we're all gone. Perhaps a nice stone bench sitting nearby where we could sit and imagine her singing . . . Having visited Saskatoon I believe that Joni's statue should be placed on the lawn of the Mendel Art Gallery and Civic Conservatory. The lovely grounds of the Mendel overlook the river which Joni often featured in song and on canvas. This venue is particularly fitting because Joni cherishes her visual art career as much (if not more) than her more universally renowned music career. Indeed, she chose the Mendel to unveil her vast work of visual art to the public. Also, Joni has a personal connection to the founding family of the Gallery. I would entrust the maintenance and preservation of this tribute to a gallery's Board of Trustees before I would the father's of a municipality. Those enjoying the sculpture would also be more protective (and not inclined to deface) if it were presented in an atmosphere of artistic sensitivity. Although the City has another lovely park on the river near the beautiful Bessbourgh Hotel (where Joni has often stayed) where there is more pedestrian traffic, I believe the Mendel would offer more respect and, for lack of a more descriptive word, more artistic spirituality. Many area corporate sponsors are aligned with the Mendel and could be a valuable source of continuing support for this project. And I understand that the founding family of the Mendel is still actively involved and was a strong supporter of her exhibit. Perhaps the family could be contacted to solicit involvement in this project. Incidentally, the Mendel's then Curator and Director -- Gilles Hebert, a very impressive art exhibitor -- was extremely proud to premiere Joni's work in her hometown. Based upon my conversations with both Joni and Mr. Hebert, I believe they would both agree that her legacy would be best preserved at the Mendel. Hey, wouldn't it be a boon to this Gallery if she also donated a piece of visual art to complement this tribute. Members of the committee are probably already acquainted with the Mr. Hebert (or, if he is no longer there, his successor) and others at the Gallery who could offer advice and support in this regard. Please email me with your physical address and I will have my photos delivered to you. Thank you for undertaking this important work and for allowing all of us to provide input. I know that we all wish you every success! Sincerely, David Mingus Fort Myers, Florida (941) 936-7258 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 16:21:10 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: shadesofscarlett In a message dated 12/16/2002 1:28:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, blondeinthebleachers@hotmail.com writes: > * I am glad not one song off of THOSL is on Travelogue these songs are > all exceptional and don't need any kind of orchestration or rehashing While I can appreciate the thought, this statement implies that records like Court & Spark, Hejira, and DJRD were flawed and that these recordings signify some kind of improvement on them. I don't think this is the case (and was not her intention). I DO wish she would have included something from HOSL...my pick would have been "Shadows and Light" which could have really been embellished with some creative orchestration. > * I am scared of Bjork's remake of The Boho Dance and will > do everything in my power to never ever listen to it It may be easy to avoid...in the meantime if you want to hear some truly scary Joni covers I can provide some. ;~) Bob NP: Elvis C, "Peace In Our Time" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 16:47:33 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Joni Statue Return-Path: Received: from rly-xk04.mx.aol.com (rly-xk04.mail.aol.com [172.20.83.41]) by air-xk05.mail.aol.com (v90.10) with ESMTP id MAILINXK53-1216161732; Mon, 16 Dec 2002 16:17:32 -0500 Received: from pd2mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by rly-xk04.mx.aol.com (v90.10) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXK45-1216161714; Mon, 16 Dec 2002 16:17:14 -0500 Received: from pd6mr2so.prod.shaw.ca (pd6mr2so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.217]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H7800D9BDKC99@l-daemon> for mingsdance@aol.com; Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:12:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml10so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml10so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.80]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H7800BO1DKDFV@l-daemon> for mingsdance@aol.com; Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:12:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from [24.71.115.64] (h24-71-115-64.ss.shawcable.net [24.71.115.64]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H78007HNDKBU6@l-daemon> for mingsdance@aol.com; Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:12:13 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 15:11:46 -0700 From: Sarah Gibb Subject: Re: Joni Statue In-reply-to: <1c4.300388f.2b2b5b23@aol.com> X-Sender: BesideHerself@shawmail To: mingsdance@aol.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" References: <1c4.300388f.2b2b5b23@aol.com> X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.97c X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Dear David, Thank you very much for your supportive email about the Joni Mitchell statue project, and for your suggestions and offer of photographs. The Fund address to send the photographs to is: Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself P.O. Box 22100 (RPO Wildwood) Saskatoon, SK S7H 5P1 I'm pasting below for your interest a story about the statue fund in today's StarPhoenix, which is our local newspaper here in Saskatoon. Best wishes, Sarah The StarPhoenix, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Monday, December 16, 2002 By Darren Bernhardt of The StarPhoenix A fund has been set up in Saskatoon to raise money for a bronze statue to honour Joni Mitchell, one of Saskatoon's most famous daughters, and it's getting international support. The initiative was undertaken by Sarah Gibb, an expatriate Englander who moved to the city last year and has been a longtime fan of the accomplished painter, poet, singer and songwriter. "My first thought when I saw the downtown was, 'What, no Joni Mitchell statue?'" she said. "She's known all over the world and whether you like her music or not, there's no denying she's been tremendously influential on a whole generation of artists. I was amazed Saskatoon wasn't celebrating her. "I at least expected plaques saying, 'This is where Joni Mitchell lived' and 'This is where she went to school' and 'This is where she first sang in public'. We do this in England with our novelists, artists and historical figures, and it often injects a lot of visitors into an area because they want to see where Charles Dickens stayed when he wrote Bleak House or whatever." Mitchell is in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and listed No. 5 on VHI's list of The 100 Greatest Women of Rock and Roll. She was given the Order of Canada earlier this year, the nation's highest honour for lifetime achievement. Gibb was inspired to take action after reading a StarPhoenix story about a British Columbia man who wrote a letter to Saskatoon city council suggesting the council commission a statue. Mark Salzl was raised in Paradise Hill but plans to eventually move from B.C. to Saskatoon, which he calls his "home city". But a program doesn't exist for commissioning artwork. Salzl was told to look into private sponsorships. Recognizing the difficulty of campaigning two provinces away, Gibb took up the venture. A committee was created consisting of Gibb, Salzl and Les Irvin, founder of a Joni Mitchell Web site and discussion list (www.jmdl.com) in California. "Already, in response to the fund being set up, fans on the discussion list are talking about a pilgrimage to Saskatoon to have photographs taken with the statue," said Gibb. Salzl is amazed his suggestion garnered so much attention and that the process has begun. "I have to chuckle about the power of one little letter," he said. "But I don't think it would have happened so quick if Sarah didn't take it up. I'm very pleased," he said, adding he has received e-mails of encouragement from people in San Francisco. The committee's effort is The Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself Fund, stemming from an interview two weeks ago when Joni Mitchell talked about a bench with a statue of herself sitting at one end. She remarked that when she came here and sat on the bench, she could literally be beside herself. She expressed a preference for something that wasn't "on a pedestal" because it's not her style. It should be functional "where people could sit and muse," she said. The good-humoured Mitchell often visits her parents, who still live here. She said a statue would be an honour as well as "a place for birds to perch." Gibb and the rest of the committee members plan to approach local businesses for donations, as well as city council "who we hope will give us permission to locate the statue in a prominent place," she said. "We would love to see it overlooking the river near the Bessborough Hotel, as Joni Mitchell has the Bessborough featured on the cover of one of her early albums, Clouds." Another option is to have it in Broadway, where Mitchell started her singing career in the Louis Riel coffee house, as it was known then. Calories now occupies that spot. Regardless of where the statue goes, the coffee house site should have a commemorative plaque, said Gibb. The committee is in the process of approaching artists to have a campaign poster designed for distribution around the city. Joe Farfard, the Saskatchewan sculptor whose work in bronze is known internationally, has told the committee he is interested in doing the piece. "We don't know when we'll be in a position to commission something, as we have no idea how long it will take to raise the money," said Gibb. "We estimate we're going to need $100,000-$120,000, and so far we have $175. But we're determined to raise the rest." If anyone would like to help, the committee can be reached at BesideHerself@shaw.ca. Donations can be made directly to the fund at the Saskatoon Credit Union, Broadway Avenue branch, account number 7230444. Or cheques and money orders can be sent to Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself, P.O. Box 22100 (RPO Wildwood), Saskatoon, S7H 5P1. >Dear Committee Members: > >I have two photos of Joni taken at the 2000 Both Sides Now tour in >West Palm Beach which I would like to submit for consideration. > Each was published in the JoniMitchell.com Both Sides Now Tour >Report, entitled "Mars Music Amphitheater West Palm Beach, FL >5/17/2000". I believe both of these photos depict a very lovely, >statuesque Joni. The one where she's looking up is particularly >reverent. Her shimmering hair and the pleated detail of her gown >electrifies her image, presenting an artistic challenge to the >sculptor which would age beautifully. I am often taken aback by the >staring eyes of bronze statues, and believe that her pose looking up >with eyes closed would enhance, and not detract from, this tribute. > We remember Joni from our youth -- many fond memories of her past >like images in a cherished album. Yet it is today's Joni, as she >has evolved, which should be immortalized. These photos present her >in this light. > >I was privileged to be designated the JoniMitchell.com photographer >at her Atlanta 1998 birthday concert and the 2000 Palm Beach event. > I also attended her Mendel Art Gallery opening "Voices" in >Saskatoon in 2000. I shall send you the photos described above >along with several of my favorites taken at these venues. > >I will admit that I have no photos of Joni sitting on a bench. We >were all amused by her comment that if she were sculpted sitting on >a bench she could come sit besides herself -- hence, the name of >this project. Although this would be a whimsical presentation, I >believe Joni's work deserving of a more formal tribute and one which >would be well received long after we're all gone. Perhaps a nice >stone bench sitting nearby where we could sit and imagine her >singing . . . > >Having visited Saskatoon I believe that Joni's statue should be >placed on the lawn of the Mendel Art Gallery and Civic Conservatory. > The lovely grounds of the Mendel overlook the river which Joni >often featured in song and on canvas. This venue is particularly >fitting because Joni cherishes her visual art career as much (if not >more) than her more universally renowned music career. Indeed, she >chose the Mendel to unveil her vast work of visual art to the >public. Also, Joni has a personal connection to the founding family >of the Gallery. > >I would entrust the maintenance and preservation of this tribute to >a gallery's Board of Trustees before I would the father's of a >municipality. Those enjoying the sculpture would also be more >protective (and not inclined to deface) if it were presented in an >atmosphere of artistic sensitivity. Although the City has another >lovely park on the river near the beautiful Bessbourgh Hotel (where >Joni has often stayed) where there is more pedestrian traffic, I >believe the Mendel would offer more respect and, for lack of a more >descriptive word, more artistic spirituality. > >Many area corporate sponsors are aligned with the Mendel and could >be a valuable source of continuing support for this project. And I >understand that the founding family of the Mendel is still actively >involved and was a strong supporter of her exhibit. Perhaps the >family could be contacted to solicit involvement in this project. > >Incidentally, the Mendel's then Curator and Director -- Gilles >Hebert, a very impressive art exhibitor -- was extremely proud to >premiere Joni's work in her hometown. Based upon my conversations >with both Joni and Mr. Hebert, I believe they would both agree that >her legacy would be best preserved at the Mendel. Hey, wouldn't it >be a boon to this Gallery if she also donated a piece of visual art >to complement this tribute. > >Members of the committee are probably already acquainted with the >Mr. Hebert (or, if he is no longer there, his successor) and others >at the Gallery who could offer advice and support in this regard. > >Please email me with your physical address and I will have my photos >delivered to you. > >Thank you for undertaking this important work and for allowing all >of us to provide input. I know that we all wish you every success! > >Sincerely, > >David Mingus >Fort Myers, Florida >(941) 936-7258 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:30:37 -0500 From: "Yael" Subject: susan tedeschi again on wfuv.org. right now. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:31:02 -0500 From: "Yael" Subject: singing "river" i should have mentioned that she's singing "river" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:22:42 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: shadesofscarlett - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: "if you want to hear some truly scary Joni covers I can provide some. ;~) Bob" So can Joni:) love, nuriel _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@yourchoice.com w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:36:23 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: Joni's voice don't think anyone has yet mentioned this but one of my favorite moments in t'log is be cool when joni sings 'don't whiiiiiine'... i always lol when i hear this... I LOVE this line also! I picture her with her hand on her hip, her head slightly tilted as she sings through a sneer. And yes, it makes me giggle. - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:41:46 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: "Your notch IS liberation, doll" I've been warned not to bring this up on the list, because it causes so much controversy, but I do agree that the line, "Your notches liberation doll" is actually meant to be, "Your notch IS liberation, doll" and that the liner notes are misprinted. The former really makes no sense to me but the latter one does: Since it's a man telling her this, I assume he has many notches on his headboard and Joni's stands for liberation, symbolizing some sense of freedom she gave him during the course of their love affair. I think the "serpent" is a representation of a phallus and I like your wall analogy. Why it's an "Ethiopian" wall is still a mystery to me. Let the controversy begin! - -Andrew - ---- * I am more and more convinced that in Don't Interrupt the Sorrow 'notches' is notches on the bedpost--meaning her sexuality is her liberation, but she will always be tied to the wall because she is a woman and there will always be the double standard (which is crap)* I agree. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 16:53:29 -0600 From: "William C. Burnworth/Tim Callaghan" Subject: r: 20th Century Masters and Joni If I'm not mistaken, the main reason Joni will never be represented in this series is because this series is from Polygram (whoever owns them now) ..they're not likely to be licensing Joni tracks.. Cheers all, Williamnp:Comedian Harmonists, Creole Love Call William Burnworth/Tim CallaghanCastalian Springcspringj@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 18:02:58 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: 2nd Annual Trivia Contest!! Prizes involved !! :0 Hello Everyone!! Well..I can't believe it is this time already?? Another year...all I believe accounted for. For the new people and to refresh the old members: Every year it is a tradition in my blood family at Christmas to have a trivia question on Christmas Eve. On a piece of paper as the guests are arriving they write their answer down to the trivia question. At the end of the night a prize is given to the person who answered correctly. So I want to extend this to my on line family...my Joni family!! :-) Where: JMDL time: 9PM sharp December 18..this Wednesday. I am announcing this ahead of time because last year a few people said I should have given a heads up. And yes..if you won last year you can win this year!! This year there will be two winners. Whoever answers the question first wins the top prize. Then there is a runner up prize. Unlike last year.. there WILL NOT be five prizes given. (Because Santa just got back from Vegas and lost her arse!) Prizes: Top dog: A gift certificate from Gift Certificates.com, A box of Esther Price candy. AND...and..a tray of my world-famous Buckeyes. Runner up: A tray of my Buckeyes. (I made 1206 last year...this year I'm shooting for 1222) (for those of you who do not know, Buckeyes are candy..peanut butter concoction..hand-dipped in chocolate) (it is quite a production! My kitchen is turned into a veritable candy factory. And I love it!! ) PS. I will ship to anywhere in this Joniworld. SOOOOO... I hope many of you will give it a shot..this Wednesday...9PM sharp! Love to all.. Bree _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 18:52:42 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Duh..I forgot..trivia contest.. Oh..the time 9PM for the trivia question is EST. (Europe set your alarms) Bree _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 19:20:44 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Statue In a message dated 12/16/02 4:09:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, MINGSDANCE@aol.com writes: > The one where she's looking up is > particularly reverent. Her shimmering hair and the pleated detail of her > gown electrifies her image, presenting an artistic challenge to the > sculptor > which would age beautifully. I am often taken aback by the staring eyes of > > bronze statues, and believe that her pose looking up with eyes closed would > > enhance, and not detract from, this tribute. Well slap my ass and call me Judy (as Evian used to say), I actually get to see a post from David Mingus after 4 years :~) This is a great photo Mingus, and I think this would make a great promo for the statue. Everyone at Pazfest got one of these, and I brought some to Jonifest 2001 as give away prizes. For those who want a peek go to http://jonimitchell.com/BSNTourReports/WPBBSNTourReport.html It's the first photo of the report. Post more often Ming!!! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 19:52:42 -0500 (EST) From: "walterphil" Subject: [none] guess what!!! joni definately is planning a christmas album for next year. in fact she's already recorded it!!!! i know someone who works at nonesuch and he sent me a pre release of most of the songs she recorded most of them when she did "travelog" and others he recorded in her home studio here's the line up 1. river --(no suprise here except she adds a verse or two from "rockin around the christmas tree") 2. away in the manger--(modled after the mahalia jackson version with percy faith strings. in fact the strings outstring percy!) 3. santa must be a boogie man (such a clever reworking) 4. the christmas song --(a duet with cher-this one brought tears to my eyes) 5. barangril-- (with a spooky sample of nat king cole coming and going all thru the song) 6. rudolph the red nosed reindeer--(a fine version altho somewhat marred by joni saying "nice rudy rudy" oh well) 7. all i want {for christmas is my 2 front teeth}-- (just darling with joni singing the entire thing in a baby like voice. sigh...) 8. adeste fidelis-- (another duet-this time with bing crosby-although sometimes its hard to tell who is singing) 9. carole's lawn is sparklin again --(a beautiful sequal to "chinese cafe" 10. that bitch carly simon stole my man--(an original, tho it seems somewhat out of place here on a holiday album-nice glokinspeil accompaniment though, does add a festive touch.) 11. the 12 days of christmas -- (i won't spoil the surprise about the wonderful gifts joni recieves from her true love---altho day 6 she does get "6 cans of moosehead beer"--ah those canadians--they love their beer) 12. suzy snowflke--(a rather stark reading of the old chestnut, ala "fiddle and the drum") 13. i've got my love to keep me warm--(very jazzy--very nice--altho joni questionably uses some mingus dialog outakes, mostly along the lines of "pass the applesauce" and "are you sure you wanna do this?" and the like) 14. marcies revenge--(sigh--just brilliant) 15. the holly and the ivy--(sung with a very heavy swedish accent) 16. we three kings- joni did a watercolor sketch for this one in the liner notes--hilariously she used crosby still and nash as the models---the rendering is amazing--every little wrinkle--ahh that joni-ya gotta love her) thats it 16 holiday gems just wait till you hear this one the threads on this list will never stop! happy holidays! walt The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 20:16:15 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Travelogue on the Shelf In a message dated 16/12/2002 19:23:38 GMT Standard Time, olszer@xlsecurity.com writes: << T is made for those who never heard Joni. Great, this way we'll come across as more "mainstream" and less "weird" when playing T as background music to non-admirers of the QUOMB. >> Ah, there's the rub! I'm sure you're right Laurent, but I have a real fear that, should anyone buy this album as a Joni primer, they'll listen to it and think "Crikey, who's this croaky woman who can't sing," and not be encouraged to investigate further. Despite my own negative response about Travelogue, I can understand why some (or indeed many) of my fellow Joni-admirers would like it: they have lived with the songs, they have grown up and older listening to Joni, they have heard her voice deepen and change (and can live with where it's now arrived at), and this new collection will reflect a weight of experience, and itself be carried by the experience the listener brings to it. However, none of this will apply to a new arrival at the Joni Mitchell shrine! My misgiving is that this would be a very hard album for a "newbie" to get into. It's preaching to the converted, and while some of the faithful will desert, I honestly find it hard to believe that there will be a compensatory attracting of new fans to the fold. To use a sporting analogy, if you've been playing football all afternoon and it's been getting slowly darker, your eyes adjust, and you can carry on playing. Someone who turns up in the gloaming will say "For God's sake, I can't see a bloody thing here!" I don't know what the sales figures are like, so I don't know whether they will tend to support or refute this view - leaving aside the important factor of how much PR muscle has been expended on promoting it. Bob S added, on this subject: << To dismiss after (or during) a first listen sounds to my ear to be disrespectful (even if one is correct) at best, and could be viewed as foolishly arrogant (if one turns out to be wrong) at worst. For this reason, there is - IMO - a difference between offering a negative first impression and a positive first impression. (If it turns out that the positive first impression was premature, well....sort of 'no harm, no foul'...but on the other side..) >> I disagree, Bob. First up, there is no "right" and "wrong" - stating the obvious, I guess, but maybe it needs repeating here. Why is it "disrespectful" to say I have listened to this record and really don't like it, for the following reasons? It implies that Joni is some deity who cannot be criticised. I was not flinging random insults around, I was giving an honest response, and clearly stating that it was based on first impressions. Plenty of people disagreed with me, and put opposing views, nearly all of them very forthright and wholly respectful - THAT is at the heart of what this list is supposed to be about, isn't it? Some people agreed, which reassured me that I wasn't going completely off my trolley. Secondly, I'm pretty sure that no harm of any kind whatsoever can be done by someone posting a negative response to a new record. If I had been reviewing it for any kind of publication, of course I would have listened to the whole thing, more than once, before submitting my copy. There's a big difference here. I don't believe for a second that anyone would have decided not to buy the album on the basis of my comments. So where's the harm? Azeem in London ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #395 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)