From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #385 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, December 9 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 385 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- winter lady - unreleased songs [Nuriel Tobias ] Bjork's Boho Dance [Lazyasz@aol.com] Re: eBay Item # 928798681, signed litho? ["kakki" ] Re: false alarms ["mike pritchard" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #556/ falsealarms [Aerchak@aol.com] Re: eBay Item # 928798681, signed litho? [Deb Messling ] Re: JC but no DAT [Jerry Notaro ] Re: eBay Item # 928798681, signed litho? [Jerry Notaro ] Re: OF ALL TIME... ["J.David Sapp" ] Re: false alarms [Catherine McKay ] Re: Of All Time [KLCass21@aol.com] Re: eBay Item # 928798681, signed litho? ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: false alarms ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] RE: false alarms ["Heather" ] Re: of all time ["chuty001" ] Who does this sound like? [Jerry Notaro ] Re: false alarms ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: false alarms [Little Bird ] RE: false alarms ["Heather" ] Peter Gabrial - Joni content [Susan Glumac ] false alarms ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: False Alarms ["ryan" ] Re:False Alarms ["Mark Connely" ] Re: Hammerskins? ["Sybil Skelton" ] "in a bell jar" [Emily Gray Tedrowe ] false alarms ["Kate Bennett" ] ebay ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: false alarms [Catherine McKay ] Re: false alarms [Catherine McKay ] Re: false alarms ["Lori Fye" ] Does anyone love the CLC books? [Relayer211@aol.com] RE: false alarms ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: flase alarms [Bruce Kimerer ] Re: "in a bell jar" [Jenny Goodspeed ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 00:49:16 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: winter lady - unreleased songs hello dear women and men. could anyone be as kind as to tell me anything about the song winter lady? it's winter here and i'd love to know. all those unreleased songs - where are they going to? down at the recored shop the sailsman told me that the company can release songs by an artists whether she likes it or not. i guess that that can't be the case with joni' right? but realy, were the unreleased songs recorded in a studio, and now they're just laying there waiting for joni to die so they could get released? :) love, nuri _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@yourchoice.com w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 04:42:25 EST From: Lazyasz@aol.com Subject: Bjork's Boho Dance The following is taken from a 2001 article profiling Guy Sigsworth one of Bjork's chief songwriters, instrumentalists, programmers, and producers: Guy's own keyboard-playing skills areclearly anything but limited. Some of his material, notably a take ofJoni Mitchell's 'Boho Dance' recorded by Sigsworth with Bjork for a forthcoming Mitchell tribute album, features neat improvisation on traditional keyboard instruments such as the celesta, which Guy'smangling in Pro Tools can't quite disguise. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 02:24:34 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: eBay Item # 928798681, signed litho? Hi Jim, > The ad implies that Joni signed it for the purpose of > raising funds for a charity or political movement. I > don't think it's a charity though because a.) they > don't offer their non-profit # and b.) what kind of > charity runs auctions on ebay? People for the American Way is a long-time, well known political group founded by Norman Lear. I went to their web page and this checks out. > I smell a rat. If someone would cough up the > $5,000.00 "buy-it-now" price, it would be a _purchase_ > not a tax-deductible donation to a charity, right > guys? Kakki? I think it's a political group with > some unorthodox fund-raising techniques. I'd guess that whatever price is paid would be tax-deductible. Putting stuff on eBay does seem a bit unorthodox for a long established group, but hey, maybe lots of people find eBay a good sales venue. > 'roland' says the poster "has been sitting around her > Los Angeles home ever since then and does show some > normal wear (although no tears)." Am I to believe > that a.) Joni has proofs at her house and b.) she > stores them recklessly? The woman who frames her > paintings before she photographs them doesn't store > her _proofs_ correctly?! This was the part that sort of raised my BS meter a bit. There were lots of the Turbulent Indigo posters/lithos out there for awhile. "Artist Proof" in this case means what? My litho of TTT signed by Joni (purchased at the '98 shows where the signed TI litho was also being sold for around $175) also has an A.P. artist proof indication in pencil . What makes this particular one a bit more valuable is Joni's written words to DED on the litho. But worth $5,000? I dunno. I looked at the litho on eBay and at least it appears to be her handwriting (something everyone who buys Joni stuff from eBay should carefully scrutinize). > Best of all, this political group has a freakin' > reserve "price" on the donation they're willing to > accept in exchange for a token of the donation! The > present bid, $405, has not satisfied the reserve > price. Ahh! So, they're prepared to turn down a $405 > donation to their movement! Interesting..... I think they are hyping it to get as much as they can. It would be interesting to keep an eye on it and see just how much it brings. Kakki, just home from a too many hours of rooftop dancing on a "school night" uh, oh ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:28:42 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: false alarms >>...But what about in the other verses (in 'Amelia')? They all end in 'it was just a false alarm.' What does IT refer to? There isn't an obvious subject for the pronoun. This has been driving me a little crazy for almost 30 years now.<< Relax, Bruce. Everybody needs loose ends in their lives to get them through those nights when we can't sleep or train journeys that never seem to end. And some things are unknowable, especially Joni's meanings. mike in barcelona NP Costello/Frizzell - Weird Nightmare ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 07:09:53 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #556/ falsealarms Bruce, I believe that there IS no obvious subject to it. False alarm is just a metaphor for everything. In general, for the song Amelia I think it refers back to failed love throughout the song, albeit not directly. But then I also think it's just for everything. You thought something was this, and then not...it was a false alarm. It's too early for me to be articulate and I'm going to be late for work AGAIN. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 07:17:01 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: eBay Item # 928798681, signed litho? Whoever wrote the copy for the eBay item seems to have a genuine reverence for Joni, I'll say that. He even puts in a plug for Travelogue. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/02 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 07:22:08 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #556/lithograph on ebay The 'buy it now' price is moot because bidding has begun. Is there a "rat"? I don't know. The piece looks decent enough. It's not a painting. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 07:45:34 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Covers #35 contest is now history Well, thanks to all who took a moment and tried their luck. I had a healthy number of guesses from all over the world! And now I present our winners...Mary Casey & Paul Maggio... Mary is the first-place champeen, so along with her freebie #35 she'll soon be jammin' with The Steve Klink Trio. (Mary, let me have your address, please M'am). Paul, I've already got your address so we're cool. My pick this month was "Last Time I Saw Richard" from Miles of Aisles (please note it's "Aisles" & not "Isles"). While nobody picked any MOA tracks, Mary & Paul both drew from the HOSL songlist (you know, the one Joni overlooked when picking songs for T'log) and came up with winners. Keep watching this space for more free cd's! Bob NP: Diamond Head, "This Flight Tonight" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 07:51:49 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: false alarms << I just noticed that "Icarus *ascending* on beautiful foolish arms" defies the myth of Icarus actually *descending* with wings burnt by the sun.>> Huh? He *ascended* before he ever *decended*. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 08:07:43 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: false alarms I just thought that it was Joni saying to Amelia, "the reason why you crashed was just a false alarm, it wasn't necessary, just like my love affairs.." Maybe that isnt it, but I was never confused about it because I thought it was that simple. Does that make any sense? BLair NP: Big Star > >Bruce Kimerer wrote: > ><< OK. After many years and hundreds of listens, what are the 'false >alarms' in Amelia? >In the Icarus verse I understand the false alarm to be a love affair that >didn't work out. But what about in the other verses? They all end in 'it >was just a false alarm.' What does IT refer to? There isn't an obvious >subject for the pronoun. This has been driving me a little crazy for >almost 30 years now. >> > > > You give me much more with your question than I can possibly give >with my answer. > In the 20 years that this has been among my very favorite songs >(all versions) I've always interpreted "it was just a false alarm" to >mean that Amelia was just decades ahead of her time. > I just noticed that "Icarus *ascending* on beautiful foolish >arms" defies the myth of Icarus actually *descending* with wings burnt by >the sun. > Perhaps Joni sees Icarus here as the Phoenix embodied by Amelia. > BTW, has anyone seen the Star Trek Voyager episode where Captain >Janeway thaws Amelia from five centuries of sleep on some distant planet? >Talk about GREAT myths..... > ET _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 08:48:40 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: JC but no DAT Yale Harelip wrote: > hey all- > > so some of you know that i'm learning to run the soundboard at the Ark, an > acoustic-oriented venue in Ann Arbor. > and if you read my last post you know i'm really into lynn miles recently. > > well tonight i ran my first solo show at the ark, and lynn miles played. I've posted about Lynn to the list in the past. She is a treasure. I've been able to see her live twice and she is faro! Jerry np: Jeff Buckley - Grace ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 09:04:17 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: eBay Item # 928798681, signed litho? Jim L'Hommedieu wrote:'roland' says the poster "has been sitting around her > Los Angeles home ever since then and does show some > normal wear (although no tears)." Am I to believe > that a.) Joni has proofs at her house and b.) she > stores them recklessly? The woman who frames her > paintings before she photographs them doesn't store > her _proofs_ correctly?! My poster from "voices" > doesn't have any flaws at all. What's "normal wear" > for a sheet of paper stored in a cool, dry, dark > environment? What say ye, librarians? Well, I'm a Media Librarian, not a preservationist, but it would depend on the type of paper and the amount of acid in it. I've got a Richard Amsel poster from Bette Midler's first tour and despite my care and "museum" mounting it has faded, yellowed, and mildewed over the years. Jerry np: Jeff Buckley - Last Goodbye ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 06:43:04 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: false alarms i think that the false alarm moto refers to the 6 plains she saw. the plains were probably called on a mission a drill maybe an atack that turned out to be a false alarm. makes sense, eh? love, nuri - --- "Blair Fraipont" wrote: > I just thought that it was Joni saying to Amelia, "the reason why >you crashed was just a false alarm, it wasn't necessary, just like my love >affairs.." Maybe that isnt it, but I was never confused about it because I >thought it was that simple. > Does that make any sense? > BLair >NP: Big Star > > > >> >>Bruce Kimerer wrote: >> >><< OK. After many years and hundreds of listens, what are the 'false >>alarms' in Amelia? >>In the Icarus verse I understand the false alarm to be a love affair that >>didn't work out. But what about in the other verses? They all end in 'it >>was just a false alarm.' What does IT refer to? There isn't an obvious >>subject for the pronoun. This has been driving me a little crazy for >>almost 30 years now. >> >> >> >> You give me much more with your question than I can possibly give >>with my answer. >> In the 20 years that this has been among my very favorite songs >>(all versions) I've always interpreted "it was just a false alarm" to >>mean that Amelia was just decades ahead of her time. >> I just noticed that "Icarus *ascending* on beautiful foolish >>arms" defies the myth of Icarus actually *descending* with wings burnt by >>the sun. >> Perhaps Joni sees Icarus here as the Phoenix embodied by Amelia. >> BTW, has anyone seen the Star Trek Voyager episode where Captain >>Janeway thaws Amelia from five centuries of sleep on some distant planet? >>Talk about GREAT myths..... >> ET > > >_________________________________________________________________ >The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@yourchoice.com w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 09:00:48 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: OF ALL TIME... Favorite: REFUGE OF THE ROADS (in all incarnations) Least: THE WINDFALL peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 10:13:12 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: false alarms --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > << I just noticed that "Icarus *ascending* on > beautiful foolish > arms" defies the myth of Icarus actually > *descending* with wings burnt by > the sun.>> > > Huh? He *ascended* before he ever *decended*. > What goes up, must come down. Icarus thought he could fly. At the point where he's ascending, he's still under the delusion/illusion that indeed he can fly to the sun. It's only the omniscient storyteller, Joni, (and we, the listeners) who realize the delusion. Icarus' arms are beautiful, but they're foolish - foolish, because we know it's foolish to try to fly to the sun on hand-made wings; we know he's going to crash and burn; but we still believe in the beauty of the attempt and wish, for his sake, that he would make it. You can hear the love and sadness in Joni's voice even as she sings this line. How can you not love Icarus, even though you know he's doomed? So go so many things in life - you really want the guy to make it. Likewise, we know after the fact that Amelia's flight was doomed, but no one knew this when she took off. If she had made it, she would have gone down in history. Because she didn't make it, she still went down in history and probably remains more visible because of it than she would have if she hadn't just disappeared. It's beautiful and sad, the essence of tragedy. This whole false alarm thing is starting to disturb me now, mainly because I have a feeling of what it means but I can't express it in words. I find it hard to separate one part of this song from the next. The whole thing seems to be very stream-of-consciousness type of writing and yet its construction is so tight that it couldn't be. I've just been reading over the lyrics at www.jmdl.com with fresh appreciation of the Jenius of Joni. If I can figure out how to get these thoughts out of my head and onto (virtual) paper, and the thing hasn't been flogged to death by the time I come up with something... I'm sure an entire BOOK could be written just about this poem/song, so trying to do this concisely would be difficult. I can see this book as one of those dreadful scholarly tomes with footnotes all over the place, which could destroy the beauty of the poem - who wants to do that?) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 10:28:55 EST From: KLCass21@aol.com Subject: Re: Of All Time >>> What's your favourite Joni Mitchell? Don Juan's Reckless Daughter >>> Least favourite? Blue Boy >>> Favorite live performance? 3 way tie: In France They Kiss and Amelia (both from S&L) and Cactus Tree (MOA) Andrew wrote: "In addition to River and Face Lift (Joni's own compositions) there have been quite a few cranky Christmas songs over the years, actually. Uh oh, there's almost enough for an album!" Add "2000 Miles" by Pretenders. There's a lot of beauty in this song, (Outside/Under the purple sky/Diamonds in the snow...Sparkle) but the long distance relationship theme set against the onset of the holiday season creates an undeniable ache: "He's gone 2000 miles/ It's very far", and "I miss you", and "The children were singing/He'll be back at Christmas time." Kurt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 07:31:57 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: eBay Item # 928798681, signed litho? Thanks, Gerry. In other poster news, I disassembled a copy of Annie Leibovitz'es "Women" book. Joni's two-page picture is printed on a single piece of paper. I'm having it custom-framed with primo UV-rejecting glass and a double mat. ($102, total. Ouch.) Until I can purchase a silver-based print of Annie's work, it's something to enjoy. Also had the 'voices' poster mounted and the good news here is that the mounted board comes out to be a standard poster size: 30" high x 24" wide. I'll probably be able to get a standard frame from a discount store and have it on the wall by Christmas. Lama Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 07:42:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: false alarms Icarus flew too high. Ameilia didn't plan her flight correctly well enough either. The song is discussing their aspirations to something "higher" (pun intended). Joni doesn't mention Amelia's crash, nor Icarus' ugly end, hence, "like Icarus ascending on beautiful foolish arms." Not arguing, just weighing in, Lama > Bruce Kimerer wrote: > > << OK. After many years and hundreds of listens, > what are the 'false > alarms' in Amelia? > In the Icarus verse I understand the false alarm to > be a love affair that > didn't work out. But what about in the other verses? > They all end in 'it > was just a false alarm.' What does IT refer to? > There isn't an obvious > subject for the pronoun. This has been driving me a > little crazy for > almost 30 years now. >> > - --- Eric Taylor wrote: > I just noticed that "Icarus *ascending* on > beautiful foolish > arms" defies the myth of Icarus actually > *descending* with wings burnt by > the sun. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 08:02:39 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: false alarms McKay proposed: > I can see > this book as one of those dreadful scholarly tomes > with footnotes all over the place, which could > destroy > the beauty of the poem - who wants to do that? Me. That's my book. I know you're being facetious but I'm serious so follow me for a second. There have been scores of books written about Bob Dylan. Many of them have been dreadful scholarly tomes that made money and more importantly, found an audience that needed to hear the drum beat. There have only been 2 serious books about Joni. I'm only counting Karen's book and the collection of interviews. Karen's book is so successful it is in a second printing. HELLO?! Women are also disproportionally represented among book buyers. Catherine, no one has yet written a dreadful scholarly tome about Joni's lyrics. There's a market. It's just too bad that Joni's lyrics don't stand up to repeated examination, like say, constant contemplation over 20 years. NOT!! Do we need credentials to get a book published or just enough chuzpah to knock on doors? I can just see the cover letter: "Here's my manuscript. I'm an IT guy who's a Joni fan but this isn't a fan book. I have no credentials as an author or as a scholar but I've written a scholarly book." Would that "fly" or would it be a false alarm? I'm mightily tempted and the most enticing part is that this book-writing fixation is growing, growing, growing. Lama Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:10:07 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: false alarms I often lean towards 'scholarly tomes'. If the work is footnoted properly, the footnotes can hold tons of information that can lead to further reading. Also a good scholarly work puts the footnotes at the end as to not take away from the reading. Just two cents from an intense researcher, Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Jim L'Hommedieu Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 11:03 AM To: Catherine McKay; Murphycopy@aol.com; Eric Taylor; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: false alarms McKay proposed: > I can see > this book as one of those dreadful scholarly tomes > with footnotes all over the place, which could > destroy > the beauty of the poem - who wants to do that? Me. That's my book. I know you're being facetious but I'm serious so follow me for a second. There have been scores of books written about Bob Dylan. Many of them have been dreadful scholarly tomes that made money and more importantly, found an audience that needed to hear the drum beat. There have only been 2 serious books about Joni. I'm only counting Karen's book and the collection of interviews. Karen's book is so successful it is in a second printing. HELLO?! Women are also disproportionally represented among book buyers. Catherine, no one has yet written a dreadful scholarly tome about Joni's lyrics. There's a market. It's just too bad that Joni's lyrics don't stand up to repeated examination, like say, constant contemplation over 20 years. NOT!! Do we need credentials to get a book published or just enough chuzpah to knock on doors? I can just see the cover letter: "Here's my manuscript. I'm an IT guy who's a Joni fan but this isn't a fan book. I have no credentials as an author or as a scholar but I've written a scholarly book." Would that "fly" or would it be a false alarm? I'm mightily tempted and the most enticing part is that this book-writing fixation is growing, growing, growing. Lama Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:15:43 -0500 From: "chuty001" Subject: Re: of all time I've wondered for many years how Cheech and Chong ended up on this tune. I do have a soft spot for it in a Puff the magic dragon kind of way.:-) DF - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Taylor" To: Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 2:29 AM Subject: RE: of all time > Chris Marshall wrote: > > << Least: Twisted. Seems to be so, I dunno, "not Joni". > Does that make any sort of sense? >> > > > I almost forgot about this Bette Midler hand me down! > Can I change my choice from The Circle Game to Twisted? > ;~D > ET ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 11:16:31 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Who does this sound like? from Streisand takes a holiday The singer-actor says she's content to be offstage and at home with her family these days: ''It's nice to pass the torch.'' )Associated Press December 9, 2002 NEW YORK -- Barbra Streisand doesn't listen to most of today's pop music, likes to spend time tending to her rose garden and isn't rushing to return to the movie screen. She may be the ultimate Hollywood diva, but the 60-year-old singer-actor isn't immersed in show business much these days. And she's loving that. "I'm kind of content in my own life, and therefore, I don't need work," Streisand said in a recent phone interview. "I'm very busy with my life and my family and stuff like that, and I try to have a good time without having to work." Streisand hasn't made a movie since 1996's The Mirror Has Two Faces, and her latest album, Duets, released last month, contains only two new songs. The rest is duets from her long career, with singers ranging from Frank Sinatra to Donna Summer. Although some of the material dates to the early 1960s, Streisand said she doesn't really think about her past work much. "It's not something that I have great nostalgia about." She does have fond memories of her duet with Judy Garland on Get Happy/Happy Days Are Here Again: "That was a very special thing to meet her, and to have her support, and to have her kind of cling on to me and feel protective of her." Streisand plans to release new material next year, an album of movie show tunes, from Shirley Temple songs to more recent soundtrack hits. Yet the eight-time Grammy winner doesn't keep up with today's pop scene. She said: "I don't ever listen to it. I can't make it out." She recently went to see Eminem's hit movie debut, 8 Mile, and had trouble following what the rapper was saying. "Most of the language I couldn't understand. It's like watching a foreign film," Streisand said. However, she said, "This kid Eminem is really interesting. I can relate to the truth, and I can relate to emotion, and I can relate to him in some strange way. . . . I was raised in the projects. I was born in Brooklyn. We were poor. I relate to that stuff because that's my roots, my heritage." As far as her movie career, the director and Academy Award-winning actor and composer is sifting through scripts, but not much interests her. "I read things, but I feel very busy as a person, you know," Streisand said. "I spend a lot of time with my garden. There's stuff that has to do with life, real life, and not fantasy life." Besides, she said, "It's time. It's nice to pass the torch, let the younger generation take over and strut their stuff." Her passion for politics hasn't waned. The Democratic booster said she spends much of her day watching political programs and reading articles, which she posts on her Web site. Of the recent midterm elections, in which Republicans took control of Congress, she said: "I think the first day or two after the election, I was completely discouraged. You kind of say, 'I'm not going to be involved in this anymore.' And then you say a few days after that, 'Now is the time to fight even harder.' " A favorite target of conservative pundits, she said: "What I resent is, one is kept in a box, like if you're an artist, you can't have political opinions?" She credits her four-year marriage to actor James Brolin with helping shift her attention to personal aspirations. They like to go out on long drives in their truck, and she has been spending much of her time overseeing construction on their new home and trading stocks. "Believe me, I was very discouraged," she said of the stock market. "But the market shows a certain kind of vitality now, so I find it real fun." Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 08:27:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: false alarms Wonderful job, Catherine. Thanks for taking the time to write and polish this. You too, Bob. Lama - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > What goes up, must come down. > > Icarus thought he could fly. At the point where he's > ascending, he's still under the delusion/illusion > that > indeed he can fly to the sun. It's only the > omniscient > storyteller, Joni, (and we, the listeners) who > realize > the delusion. Icarus' arms are beautiful, but > they're > foolish - foolish, because we know it's foolish to > try > to fly to the sun on hand-made wings; we know he's > going to crash and burn; but we still believe in the > beauty of the attempt and wish, for his sake, that > he > would make it. You can hear the love and sadness in > Joni's voice even as she sings this line. How can > you > not love Icarus, even though you know he's doomed? > So > go so many things in life - you really want the guy > to > make it. Likewise, we know after the fact that > Amelia's flight was doomed, but no one knew this > when > she took off. If she had made it, she would have > gone > down in history. Because she didn't make it, she > still > went down in history and probably remains more > visible > because of it than she would have if she hadn't just > disappeared. It's beautiful and sad, the essence of > tragedy. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 08:32:55 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: false alarms Catherine, I enjoyed your thoughts on Amelia and agree that a scholarly dissemination of Joni's lyrics would sort of kill the spirit. That's just a personal opinion - I'm sure many would be able to read a scholarly analysis of one of Joni's songs and not find that it takes away from the song itself, but I would. I enjoy art criticism to a point but if it gets too heady it really drives me crazy, because I think so much of art is about emotion, intuition and psychology that to cut it all up into logical fragments is an exercise in futility and actually undermines the creativity of the piece in question, though not by intent. I'm sure the intent of such analysis is to prove how genius something is or how worthy it is of inspection, but the art lover can decide that on their own, I think. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, I'm just saying I wouldn't be interested in reading it. - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:40:46 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: false alarms Icarus disobeyed his father, Daedalus, who warned him not to fly either too high or too low. Icarus' wings were made by his father and adhered to Icarus by wax. It was the wax that melted, the wings fell off and he plummeted to earth. This subject matter is well depicted in the world of art to depict the virtues of moderation. In some cases it also represented the difficulties of spiritual ascent. best- Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Jim L'Hommedieu Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 11:27 AM To: Catherine McKay; Murphycopy@aol.com; Eric Taylor; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: false alarms Wonderful job, Catherine. Thanks for taking the time to write and polish this. You too, Bob. Lama - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > What goes up, must come down. > > Icarus thought he could fly. At the point where he's > ascending, he's still under the delusion/illusion > that > indeed he can fly to the sun. It's only the > omniscient > storyteller, Joni, (and we, the listeners) who > realize > the delusion. Icarus' arms are beautiful, but > they're > foolish - foolish, because we know it's foolish to > try > to fly to the sun on hand-made wings; we know he's > going to crash and burn; but we still believe in the > beauty of the attempt and wish, for his sake, that > he > would make it. You can hear the love and sadness in > Joni's voice even as she sings this line. How can > you > not love Icarus, even though you know he's doomed? > So > go so many things in life - you really want the guy > to > make it. Likewise, we know after the fact that > Amelia's flight was doomed, but no one knew this > when > she took off. If she had made it, she would have > gone > down in history. Because she didn't make it, she > still > went down in history and probably remains more > visible > because of it than she would have if she hadn't just > disappeared. It's beautiful and sad, the essence of > tragedy. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 08:27:12 -0800 From: Susan Glumac Subject: Peter Gabrial - Joni content Went to see the always fantastic Peter Gabriel last night. His keyboard musician is a woman named Rachel Z. The program notes say that she has an album out called "Moon at the Window - the music of Joni Mitchell." Anyone know anything about the album? Sue ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 09:08:29 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: false alarms bruce, poor guy, that is a long time to be driven crazy! lol... my opinion of this song is that her line 'amelia it was just a false alarm' is not meant to have a subject in each verse, instead it serves as sort of a chorus (in that it is repeated each time) yes, it is describing a love affair that did not work out...& each verse gives us more information about what she is feeling or doing as she is going through the process of realization, healing, etc...i've always felt hejira was a sister song to amelia, but one where she had come to terms more with the loss...in amelia she seems to be still processing >OK. After many years and hundreds of listens, what are the 'false alarms' in Amelia? In the Icarus verse I understand the false alarm to be a love affair that didn't work out. But what about in the other verses? They all end in 'it was just a false alarm.' What does IT refer to? There isn't an obvious subject for the pronoun. This has been driving me a little crazy for almost 30 years now.Bruce<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 09:10:57 -0800 From: "ryan" Subject: Re: False Alarms It is a conincidence that I have been listening to and playing "Amelia" for 25 years and the same question crossed my mind yesterday: What was the false alarm? My own take is that the reference is to an equipment failure in Ameila's plane which she interpreted as a false alarm leading to her ultimate destruction and that Joni's own "false alarms" in matters of love turned out to be true alarms - ignored, in her case, leading to her own emotional destruction. Ryan Bruce Kimerer wrote: << OK. After many years and hundreds of listens, what are the 'false alarms' in Amelia? In the Icarus verse I understand the false alarm to be a love affair that didn't work out. But what about in the other verses? They all end in 'it was just a false alarm.' What does IT refer to? There isn't an obvious subject for the pronoun. This has been driving me a little crazy for almost 30 years now. >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 09:24:14 -0800 From: "Mark Connely" Subject: Re:False Alarms >I just noticed that "Icarus *ascending* on beautiful foolish arms" defies the myth of Icarus actually *descending* with wings burnt by the sun< Ah, yes, but his flight was initially successful-seeming. He flew up and up and then TOO CLOSE too the sun, which melted the wax he used to make the wings. They came apart and he fell. I think flying too close to the sun is a great metaphor for over-reaching your grasp, or for hubris. Surely for the early Greeks it was a cautionary tale--man must not aspire to the realm of the gods. mc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 11:51:23 -0600 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Re: Hammerskins? Just when you start to feel like we haven't made any progress at all as a civilization, something happens to slap you right in the face. This weekend, my 13 year old daughter and I were watching a movie - the setting is 1930s Alabama. During a courtroom scene, as the camera pans the room showing the "colored" section in the balcony, my daughter pipes up - "well, if they hated black people so much, why did they give them the best seats?" I laughed until I cried. Those Hammerskins don't stand a chance! Sybil P.S. Of course, my daughter thought I was somehow making fun of her and got all upset with me - these touchy teenagers. I was really at a loss to explain to her just why what she said was funny, and that's the part that really made me smile. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 12:55:31 -0500 From: Emily Gray Tedrowe Subject: "in a bell jar" hi all. i haven't written anything about "travelogue" because i'm still trying to give it a full, fair chance--i really would like to find more things about it that i like. having listened a number of times, my biggest obstacle with this project is that i just don't see the thematic or artistic need these songs have for such over-the-top arrangements. maybe "sire of sorrow" etc. do have the larger themes that call for bombast, but so many of these songs i feel are intimate, gemlike stories of life (rendered exquisitely by joni's lyrics and original music), and to hear them awash in huge arrangements of dozens of instruments...why? is what i keep coming back to. i just keep thinking, ick. what a bummer! there's not much in this album that challenges me the way the originals do... possibly the problem is that joni loves this "kind" of music (big, dramatic, theatrical, etc.) and i just happen to...not. a personal thing? possibly. still, i would love to ask her why she believes these songs need (or could benefit from) this kind of treatment--the form and the content don't seem to jibe, in my opinion. and the WORST of it all, is that i can hardly stand to listen to one of my favorites as it is done here..."judgment"--because i find that the vocal performance is so grating and awful. in particular, i cringe every time she sings "in a bell jar"--she YELPS it, to my mind. the "hey hey heeeeyyyyyy"s that come soon after are also so icky. i don't feel this is a voice deterioration issue as much as it is a stylistic choice that i find a real clunker. and i remember swooning when she sang this in the BSN concert! huh. i'm sorry to have so much negativity here--there are songs on "travelogue" that i do like to listen to--"flat tires," "love," and one or two others i can't remember ("be cool"?) off the top of my head. oh and "otis and marlena." so i'm not giving up--yet. if joni finds worth in this project, then i'll work pretty hard to give it a fair shake. the booklet is so lush and pretty--silver lining? cold comfort at this stage! - -- emily, in chicago ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 10:14:42 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: false alarms but the myth is also about this- first he ascended & (foolishly) got too close (to the sun) & was burned & fell into the sea...a perfect love affair analogy... >>I just noticed that "Icarus *ascending* on beautiful foolish arms" defies the myth of Icarus actually *descending* with wings burnt by the sun.<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 10:14:41 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: ebay to answer part b)- i'm working with a very respected, legit nonprofit right now that plans to auction items on ebay... jim asked: >>The ad implies that Joni signed it for the purpose of raising funds for a charity or political movement. I don't think it's a charity though because a.) they don't offer their non-profit # and b.) what kind of charity runs auctions on ebay?<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 13:12:16 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: false alarms --- Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > > > There have been scores of books written about Bob > Dylan. Many of them have been dreadful scholarly > tomes that made money and more importantly, found an > audience that needed to hear the drum beat. > [...] no one has yet written a dreadful > scholarly > tome about Joni's lyrics. There's a market. It's > just too bad that Joni's lyrics don't stand up to > repeated examination, like say, constant > contemplation > over 20 years. NOT!! > > Do we need credentials to get a book published or > just > enough chuzpah to knock on doors? I can just see > the > cover letter: "Here's my manuscript. I'm an IT guy > who's a Joni fan but this isn't a fan book. I have > no > credentials as an author or as a scholar but I've > written a scholarly book." > I wasn't sure at this point whether to call this jc or njc so forgive me for opting in favour of keeping it jc. There are scholarly tomes and scholary tomes. I get distracted by constant footnotes (I have a short attention span and I can never figure out where my eyes are supposed to go next.) And the ones I'm referring to are the ones that overanalyze to the point where you get so sick of the original work you never want to see/hear it again. I think a serious study of Joni's work would fly, as a matter of fact, so go for it. Don't tell them you're an IT guy, don't knock on doors and don't send them the whole manuscript. Tell them you've been studying Joni's music for however-many years and don't mention your day job. Send them an outline of what the book is about in clear, concise language and send them a sample chapter only. Send it through the mail. Oh yeah, call them first and ask them how they want their manuscripts sent; then follow it to the letter. Make it neat and easy to read. Choose an easy-to-read typeface and try not to spill coffee on it. Affix sufficient postage and a stamped self-addressed return envelope. If they tell you they're not taking any unsolicited manuscripts, send it anyway, but choose publishers that you think would be best suited to it. Be prepared to be rejected many times, but keep going anyway. The odds are in your favour. Ultimately someone will take it (probably?); if not, there are people here who would buy it. That way may not make you rich, but you will know your work is appreciated and will be read and you might make a few (not a lot of) bucks at the same time. Have fun. Always good at providing advice to others; rarely good at accepting it myself... ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 13:15:53 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: false alarms --- Kate Bennett wrote: > but the myth is also about this- first he ascended & > (foolishly) got too > close (to the sun) & was burned & fell into the > sea...a perfect love affair > analogy... > Very true, and the thing is, if you don't try, you don't even get warm. You don't get to come in from the cold. Better to have loved and lost and all that. Waaaahhh - why can't it be easier??? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 10:16:55 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: false alarms > but the myth is also about this- first he ascended & (foolishly) got > too close (to the sun) & was burned & fell into the sea...a perfect > love affair analogy... Also a perfect companion to the belief that Amelia fell into the sea ... Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 13:19:48 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Does anyone love the CLC books? In many libraries they have in the referance section,the "clc" books series-contemporary literary critisism.there are about 55 or so volumes in this series I think.personally,i find the books very interesting.each book contains a collection of reviews of novelists,poets,songwriters,playwrights and non fiction writers...Joni is reviewd in volume 12. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 14:58:49 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: false alarms actually, icarus didn't crash into the sun and burn. daedalus and his son icarus were imprisoned in the cretan labyrinth, which daedalus himself had created. so daedalus made wax wings for himself and his son in order to escape. daedalus warned icarus that they should never fly too close to the sun but icarus, tempted by the beauty of the sun and the exhilaration of flying higher and higher, disobeyed his father. in the end, his wax wings melted and he fell and perished. it is one of my favorite greek myths. maybe joni means every time you fall in love you think it's the real thing but it's just a matter of time before your wax wings melt and you land on our ass. if that's what she meant, i agree with mitchell. wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 14:41:14 -0400 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: Re: flase alarms Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this. I know I'm trying to be a little too analytical about this. Joni's meanings (in her best songs) are conveyed implicitly, not obviously. That's part of the beauty of them. I get caught up on the word IT though -- so specific, so particular, yet with no clear corresponding subject (maybe that's part of the point). I guess the song's about the sadness (tragedy) of noble failure. So why title her latest work TRAVELOGUE, with the clear reference to Amelia and a life filled with picture postcard charms. The regret in that verse stems from the realization that the inspired urgency of exploration has resulted in nothing more than a collection of sweet little snapshots. I wouldn't think she would view her life's work that way. Or does she see the title to simply mean a tour of her work? But then she prints the postcard line in the booklet. I read 'picture postcard charms' as a dismissive phrase, signifying something of little lasting value. Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 10:53:55 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: "in a bell jar" Because Joni has often commented on her guitar tuning and technique - how she uses the guitar to create more orchestral sounds -- I think Travelogue is a natural progression, having an actual orchestra at her disposal. I'm so curious if Mendoza's arrangements are his entirely (based on her original songs) or if they collaborated some. I found this quote in the jmdl library from a 1990 interview, but I think it can be applied to Travelogue: FROM: Diary of a Decade with Trevor Dunn for Greater London Radio. Taped 6/9/90. Broadcast 7/9/90. JM: Well, I think each record -- it's all experimental work. You can't -- you can't just go "this works" and stay there. It would be terribly dull, you know. Like I mean my patron saints, Miles Davis and Picasso, are restless people. I'm a restless artist. I try different things, and they succeed or fail depending on who you talk to. We mixed those albums for what we thought was appropriate for the music at the time, you know. To me, the orchestration is as important as the words, but not to a lot of people. It depends who you're listening to. People who like instrumental music, they like that, you know, they like that attention to detail. Some people would rather that I just did everything with the guitar and nothing else. Had I done that, I wouldn't be alive in this business today, you know? Jenny (digesting Travelogue a little more before commenting, too) - --- Emily Gray Tedrowe wrote: > hi all. i haven't written anything about > "travelogue" because i'm still > trying to give it a full, fair chance--i really > would like to find more things > about it that i like. having listened a number of > times, my biggest > obstacle with this project is that i just don't see > the thematic or artistic > need these songs have for such over-the-top > arrangements. maybe > "sire of sorrow" etc. do have the larger themes that > call for bombast, > but so many of these songs i feel are intimate, > gemlike stories of life > (rendered exquisitely by joni's lyrics and original > music), and to hear them > awash in huge arrangements of dozens of > instruments...why? is > what i keep coming back to. i just keep thinking, > ick. > > what a bummer! there's not much in this album that > challenges me > the way the originals do... > possibly the problem is that joni loves this "kind" > of music (big, > dramatic, theatrical, etc.) and i just happen > to...not. a personal thing? > possibly. still, i would love to ask her why she > believes these songs > need (or could benefit from) this kind of > treatment--the form and the > content don't seem to jibe, in my opinion. > > and the WORST of it all, is that i can hardly stand > to listen to one > of my favorites as it is done > here..."judgment"--because i find that > the vocal performance is so grating and awful. in > particular, i cringe > every time she sings "in a bell jar"--she YELPS it, > to my mind. > the "hey hey heeeeyyyyyy"s that come soon after are > also so > icky. i don't feel this is a voice deterioration > issue as much as it > is a stylistic choice that i find a real clunker. > > and i remember swooning when she sang this in the > BSN concert! > huh. > > i'm sorry to have so much negativity here--there are > songs on "travelogue" > that i do like to listen to--"flat tires," "love," > and one or two others i can't > remember ("be cool"?) off the top of my head. oh > and "otis and marlena." > > so i'm not giving up--yet. if joni finds worth in > this project, then i'll > work pretty hard to give it a fair shake. the > booklet is so lush and > pretty--silver lining? cold comfort at this stage! > > -- emily, in chicago Yahoo! 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