From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #381 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, December 7 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 381 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Saskatoon gets cold in winter ["Kate Bennett" ] [none] ["William Chavez" ] JM statue JC ["William Chavez" ] Re: My ideas on Joni's statue [dsk ] Re: Dylan and joni: Idiot Wind ["Adam Mulvey" ] Re: Gregg Cagno's Holiday CD - "River" cover! ["Adam Mulvey" ] Re: re:Edgar Allen Poe [Deb Messling ] Re: AZEEM & ERIC [Deb Messling ] Re: Joni & Dylan ["RSM" ] Re: Dylan and joni: Idiot Wind [Deb Messling ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #551 [Aerchak@aol.com] travelogue is a grower [Nuriel Tobias ] Bruce and Michael's remarks about the statue [Aerchak@aol.com] travelogue bad reviews...? [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Lady with the hole in her stocking [Catherine McKay ] Re: re:Edgar Allen Poe ["Patricia O'Connor" ] Re: Joni Mitchell - Albumwriter [Catherine McKay ] Re: Gregg Cagno's Holiday CD - "River" cover! [Catherine McKay ] Re: Hammerskins? [Catherine McKay ] Re: THAT C&S SONG ["mike pritchard" ] Re: Hammerskins? [Catherine McKay ] Re: THAT C&S SONG [Catherine McKay ] All I Want (Joni) [OzWoman321@aol.com] hey friends [vince ] re:Edgar Allen Poe ["Bill Dollinger" ] Re: THAT C&S SONG [Jenny Goodspeed ] re: Travelogue - thumbs down I'm afraid ["mia ortlieb" ] Travelogue - Wow! [vince ] Re: THAT C&S SONG ["Adam Mulvey" ] Re: THAT C&S SONG [Little Bird ] Re: Hits, Misses, Omissions [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Lady with the hole in her stocking ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Lady with the hole in her stocking [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Lady with the hole in her stocking [Little Bird ] More thoughts on Joni in the park ["michael o'malley" ] Travelogue [Doug ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 00:27:04 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Saskatoon gets cold in winter >>I guess what makes 'River' such a great song is not only the sense of longing, but also the sense of *coooold*! I mean, if it was me, I could have written, " I wish I had a river that I could sail away on". Or even "float away on". But "skate away on"? Now that's genius.<< it took me a few christmases to get over the lack of cold & snow when i moved to california from the east coast...it just never quite seemed like a real christmas & this song so perfectly expressed my feelings each year... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 03:41:33 -0500 From: "William Chavez" Subject: [none] Catherine Did you labor over this or did it just flow out as you typed. I thought it was a really funny way of saying "ENOUGH ALREADY!" You know I think it would be great to ask Joni what she thought but I'm kind of surprised she even went as far as giving the "bench" suggestion. She has that "Forget what it means to me, what does it mean to you" attitude. Yet, Joni is a pretty hard cookie to please and most likely she will not be completely satisfied with whatever is erected in tribute to her. It's like Judy's BSN. I'm sure Joni is happy that Judy decided to cover her song but just was not 100% thrilled with the finish project. Hopefully she will be as thrilled with it as she was that cookbook. It sounds like she really dug that. I think the cook book probably caught her by surprise(offguard). This statue thing is already losing the cookbook feel. Will Then again, she also needs her dulcimer, guitars (acoustic, electric, VG8, whatever), her piano, preferably a grand; that'd be nice. She has cats too, so maybe there should be cats all around her (maybe one on her shoulder?). And then again there's her new little doggie. She needs to have her paints and her easel, and some paper to write down the lyrics of new songs. What should she be wearing? Something by Issey? (maybe he can donate something to the cause, like a dress made out of bronze). My goodness, this is getting kind of busy. Hmm, how about a desk to put the paper on that she's writing the lyrics on so she doesn't have to hold it? how about a couple of extra hands to hold all that stuff? how about a marble bowling ball over the month of June? Saskatoon gets cold in winter. She's going to need a coat and a good pair of winter boots, maybe with an extra pair of heavy socks to keep her feet warm. Don't forget the hat, she needs one of those. Is she still drinking that German wine? Get her a bottle of that. And a glass to drink it out of; we can't have Joni slugging it back from the bottle. Aw, jeez, get her a whole case; she's going to be there a while. (How big is this park or wherever the statue's going to be? Is there room for a Lexus?) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 03:46:00 -0500 From: "William Chavez" Subject: JM statue JC Sorry guys(and gals) I keep forgetting to put something in the subject slot. I hope you've noticed that I'm getting better at remembering this. Will _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 03:58:27 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: My ideas on Joni's statue Merk54@aol.com wrote: > > If it was practical, you could even have several lyric panels, erected in a circle, kind > of a Joni Stonehenge, with lyrics from some of her various eras. I like this! And, to take it further (I hope you don't mind), in a lushly grassy area I see 8 slabs of highly polished large rectangular stones, "granite markers" but so big and flat-sided they don't remind anyone of tombstones, and so highly polished that viewers can see themselves (I love it when the viewers can literally become a part of the art), and with the music and lyrics etched in. The songs I'd pick are Hejira, Refuge of the Roads, Woodstock, Circle Game, Both Sides Now (all of which I consider her "classics" even though some are not my favorites), and then three others chosen... somehow. And I would put the slabs at north, east, south and west, and then the other four in between those, and with plenty of space between each slab so it doesn't feel claustrophobic inside the circle. > In addition to the lyrics, the panels could have artistic etchings, encorporating Joni > themes (possibly even a hint or two of smoke to appease the smoking crowd). In the > center of this could be a bronze of Joni, or preferrably a bronze collage of Joni related > items - paint brushs, dobro, a guitar, an ash tray, an Eagle and a Serpent,a pair of > Forceps and a Stone, a beret, etc. I'd leave all this stuff out, but then I tend toward minimalism, and simple, pure lines, and rich materials. The shadows created at different times of the day would be another design element. > The collage bronze could then be set in the center of > a circular bench, where you could sit, and view the various panels. I like the circular bench idea, maybe white marble with a pool of water in the center. That may not be practical for Canada since it would be frozen for part of the year, but if it was gently moving water, ripples from the center outward, then maybe that would keep it from being frozen in all but the very coldest months. > If glass isn't > practical, than the panels could be made of stone, or metal - hey this way, you could > even put lyrics on both sides of the panels. I'd keep the outside of the panels rather plain and mysterious so that people are enticed into the center and then are surprised. (Surprised like going down an alley in Florence and then at the end of it finding yourself in a big welcoming plaza -- that's a wonderful feeling.) Maybe the outside face of one of the slabs could have Joni's bio, and maybe her image etched in if there's no statue of her. It would be possible to have a bronze figure of Joni sitting on the marble bench, and I'd have her looking at the "Hejira" panel since that song has so much to do with immortality. That may be too obvious, though, and kind of corny so I'm not sure about that. Another thought is to have a full size figure of Joni leaning against the inside of one of the panels. I've always liked her attitude in the photo used for the TNT tribute poster. That would be fun, going into the circle and seeing "Joni" standing there looking sassy. > Anyway, this was just what came to my mind when I thought of a Joni tribute. I prefer > the collage idea because the likeness would be hard to capture, and then we would all be > bitching that it doesn't look like her, plus then there's the whole issue of what era > Joni do you portray, etc. The likeness *could* be captured. There's a bronze statue in NYC of a man in a suit hailing a cab that's so believable cabs were stopping and he had to be moved back from the curb. I don't know who the artist is, but could find out. Any representation will never be able to include all of the details about Joni so it would be a matter of distilling it all down to symbols. Even the likeness of Joni, if there is one, would be a symbol. And discussion and bitching would all be part of the process. Just my more than 2 cents... Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:33:32 -0000 From: "Adam Mulvey" Subject: Re: Dylan and joni: Idiot Wind > I had heard it was about Roger McGuinn; the reference to > "Chestnut Mare" (one of his songs) would seem to bear this > out. > RR Well, people like to say that bits of Idiot Wind, like bits of Tangled Up In Blue, are addressed to various different people as the song goes on. It's hard to listen to the whole thing without mainly hearing a gloriously bitter lost love song, though. Joni singing it would, of course, put a new spin on it. (And if you only know the furious Blood on the Tracks version of Idiot Wind, I urge you to listen to the plangent New York outtake on The Bootleg Series Vol. 2. Stunning.) Adam ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:48:33 -0000 From: "Adam Mulvey" Subject: Re: Travelogue - thumbs down I'm afraid > Eric W Taylor wrote: > I always love it when a critical reviewer pans an album > > > admittedly before listening to the first half of it. > Have you ever taken a few bites of food, and said "uh...no > thanks...." ? > Would eating more of it make you like it better? Well... yeah. It would. I mean, my mom spent years trying to get me to eat various vegetables as a kid, but I always thought they were revolting. Then, when I grew up a bit, I started eating them, and hey presto! I even like sprouts. I mean, food does grow on you sometimes. Unless it's just bad food, obviously. I've lost count of the number of albums I've spat out in disgust at the first chew, then gone back and found - hey! This ain't so bad! This is good! (Best example I know: Janis Ian's Between The Lines album. Disgust on Monday, obsession by Friday....) Can't speak for Travelogue, though, cos I ain't heard it yet. Adam ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:23:06 -0000 From: "Adam Mulvey" Subject: Joni Mitchell - Albumwriter > > I have to say, it's People's Parties that does it > > for me. > > "Down To You" for me, but Court & Spark flows so seamlessly from start to > finish it's impossible to pick 1 track. Like I've said before, once I hear > those piano chords that kick off the title track, I'm locked in for the whole > ride, and it's not uncommon that I want to hear it again...and again. Yeah, I'm one of those people who very rarely likes an album all the way through - I like to pick and choose tracks - but if you were to stick Blue, Court and Spark and For The Roses in your-multi CD player you'd really have no need of the skip button at all. I'd find that impossible to say about almost any other artist, to be honest. That's what she should be called - not a songwriter, but an 'albumwriter'.... Adam ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:31:16 -0000 From: "Adam Mulvey" Subject: Re: Gregg Cagno's Holiday CD - "River" cover! > No...not a joke at all. Barry's latest is called "A Christmas Gift Of Love" > and includes the usual suspects, plus River, plus the title song which he > wrote, plus "My Favorite Things"....since when is THAT a Christmas song? > Anyway, he obviously has no clue what "River" is about...he sings it like > it's a little pop ditty. Ah, bless him. Or shoot him. One or the other. > > That being said...Barry was pretty good in his day. He had a number of great > tunes, PLUS he did play piano for what famous bathhouse singer? Your cue, > Murphy... Ah yes, Midler and Manilow, two great gifts to the American music industry. First, let's take a sledgehammer to Wind Beneath My Wings, and then - Hey! "Bermuda Triangle, it makes people disappear..." :o) Adam ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:18:00 -0000 From: "Adam Mulvey" Subject: C&S/Canada > > > I believe Help Me got all the way to #2 on the > > > Canadian charts. > > > > > That's becuase you Canadians have style and taste. > > > > Ken Yeah, what is this thing about Americans slagging off all things Canadian? Speaking as a Brit, if you watch South Park or listen to American talk show hosts or just surf around the US-centred bits of the Web, it's hard to see what you've all done to upset them... Adam ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 06:32:28 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: re:Edgar Allen Poe I like this one! It fits because the song itself is appropriately dark and gloomy. At 10:40 PM 12/6/02 -0600, you wrote: >Good catch Mark! Also, could "The Beat of Black Wings" be a reference also? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/02 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 06:42:32 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: AZEEM & ERIC I have a live version of FTR from her Camden, NJ concert, and I like it a lot better than the album version. Does anybody agree with me? The live version almost had a Kurt Weill feel about it, not to mention Norma Desmond. I guess the album is basically the same arrangement, but it seems to lack a little bite. At 05:41 PM 12/6/02 -0500, you wrote: >I do agree that FOR THE ROSES is a bit much -- >although it is growing on me (I love someone's >earlier comment that it has a Nora Desmond >quality!). - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/02 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 03:45:36 -0800 From: "RSM" Subject: Re: Joni & Dylan Some interesting reading about joni and bobbie here: http://www.bobdylanroots.com/mitchell.html An excerpt: The first official meeting was the Johnny Cash Show in 1969. We played that together. Afterwards Johnny had a party at his house. So we met briefly there. Over the years there were a series of brief encounters. Tests. Little art games. I always had an affection for him. Ron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 06:47:08 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Dylan and joni: Idiot Wind Okay, and I heard it was about Joan Baez, go figure! Actually I think the guy that wrote "Positively Fourth Street" said it was about Baez, but don't quote me. Interesting aside: the guy who wrote Positively 4th Street, and also the idiotic column in the NY Times about lesbians taking over folk music, is a native of my home town. His wife is a jazz singer who has covered Barangrill. At 10:25 PM 12/6/02 -0800, you wrote: > > Someone once told me that Dylan''s "Idiot Wind" (1975, Blood On The Tracks) > > was about Joni. My apologies if this has already been covered. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/02 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 06:50:16 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #551 It's funny how a song or an album can be so time specific. Such as Court and Spark. Someone said "it must have been late winter/early spring 1974" and, of course, that's exactly when it was. But I remember so clearly being in my third year at Syracuse living in that house on the other side of the park with Rachel and Chris and that wonderful album playing over and over. Here it is, 28 years later and I find myself driving to work and popping that CD in and "I've seen a lot of hot, hot blazes come down to smoke and ash" gets me every time too. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 03:52:32 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: travelogue is a grower Hi everyone! God, it was so hard finding travelogue in israel (joni's right, the music biz sucks) but now that i've got it and heard it i can say it's a real grower in the sense that bit by bit you "forget" how the original versions of the songs sounded like and you begin listening to it as if those are the original versions. what a lovely album. love, nuri _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@yourchoice.com w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:09:37 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Bruce and Michael's remarks about the statue Recently two members, Bruce and Michael, wrote comments individually regarding the artistic integrity of the statue. Their comments deserve notice. Figurative memorials can be awful. Art by committee is frightening. A great artist must do the work and should have creative reign to do so. I think it's more about finding the artist than designing the statue, folks. The artist will do that, yes? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 04:52:59 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: travelogue bad reviews...? Did joni get bad reviews on travelogue? what did the bastards had to say this time? love, nuri _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@yourchoice.com w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:00:00 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Lady with the hole in her stocking --- Cactustree78@aol.com wrote: > I always thought this line refered to a funny > experience that she was lookin back on...Like "oh > honey, remember that time we were at that club and > that lady asked you to dance and she had all those > runs in her stocking"..Thats what I always think of > when I hear that line...Peace again ***kevin**** I always thought Joni was the lady with the hole in her stocking (Didn't it feeeeeeeeel good? Didn't it feel GOOD!") Also identified with that as I almost always have a hole in my stocking. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:01:51 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: thumbs down (tears remix) --- Eric W Taylor wrote: > Catherine in Toronto wrote: > > << If I'm in a particularly depressed mood and > listen to Travelogue, I > just end up crying my eyes out anyway, so listening > to it a lot probably > ain't a good idea. Not that it's depressing, but I > do find it emotionally > draining when I'm feeling weak. >> > > Funny, when Joni's music makes me cry I > always feel SO much > better. > It's like creatively understanding the root > of one's sadness. > I usually feel energized when hearing the > demons of despair being > told off so beautifully! > ET It usually does make me feel better. It's like catharsis. The problem was, I was driving at the time. Driving with your eyes full of water - not good. I like my big boo hoos at home at night when I can feel sorry for myself and get it over with; after that, I feel SOOOO much better. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:06:26 -0500 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: re:Edgar Allen Poe > My thought was 'Some come dark and strange like dying/crows and ravens > whistling' from 'Songs to Aging Children Come'. And Crazy Crow Music. Or maybe: "Cry for Eddie in the corner Thinking he's Poebody" Patty ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 06:07:13 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Hammerskins? Bob M (SCJoniGuy) wrote All kidding aside, this kind of sh*t makes me ashamed to live in a country built on things like freedom of speech. Not what the founding fathers & mothers had in mind... I can't stand the thought of a group like this either, Bob, but I think allowing them to voice their opinion, as odious as it is, is exactly what the founding fathers had in mind. The day we tell people what to say and think is the day we should really be ashamed. (Of course, a sharp legal mind might be able to determine how others' civil liberties are infringed upon by this gathering, but I leave that to a greater mind than mine...) So how are you down there in the storm ravaged south? I was thinking of you as I watched the news the other night. Yikes! lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:09:06 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: My ideas on Joni's statue --- dsk wrote: > > I like the circular bench idea, maybe white marble > with a pool of water > in the center. That may not be practical for Canada > since it would be > frozen for part of the year, but if it was gently > moving water, ripples > from the center outward, then maybe that would keep > it from being frozen > in all but the very coldest months. It would be totally practical. You could skate on it in the winter. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:16:31 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell - Albumwriter --- Adam Mulvey wrote: > > Yeah, I'm one of those people who very rarely likes > an album all the way > through - I like to pick and choose tracks - but if > you were to stick Blue, > Court and Spark and For The Roses in your-multi CD > player you'd really have > no need of the skip button at all. I'd find that > impossible to say about > almost any other artist, to be honest. That's what > she should be called - > not a songwriter, but an 'albumwriter'.... I have to listen to these both all the way through too. Taking something out would be like removing part of a symphony or taking a chapter out of a good book. With C&S, the songs flow into one another too - the notes at the end of one song blend into the beginning of the next. The ideas of the songs flow into one another too. Joni doesn't lend herself to sound bites or multi-tasking. You have to take the time to listen, and it's always worth it. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:21:42 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Gregg Cagno's Holiday CD - "River" cover! --- Adam Mulvey wrote: > Ah yes, Midler and Manilow, two great gifts to the > American music industry. > First, let's take a sledgehammer to Wind Beneath My > Wings, and then - Hey! > "Bermuda Triangle, it makes people disappear..." I feel really guilty about this, because I HATE maudlin, but "Wind beneath my wings" does make me tear up (in the sentimental way, not the painful way. The I hate to get all bitchy and bite someone's head off to hide my moment of weakness.) I like Bette a lot when she's being funny; I could do without the schmaltz, thank you very much, but "Wind beneath my wings" is kind of a guilty pleasure (not to be indulged in frequently, as this can lead to nausea). ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:34:50 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Bruce and Michael's remarks about the statue --- Aerchak@aol.com wrote: > Art by > committee is frightening. > A great artist must do the work and should have > creative reign to do so. I > think it's more about finding the artist than > designing the statue, folks. > The artist will do that, yes? Well said! NP - guess what? Downey's version of "River" - they've been playing this A LOT on CHUM_FM here in Toronto this season. (It's got cello on it; God I love the cello!) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:36:52 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: travelogue bad reviews...? --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > Did joni get bad reviews on travelogue? what did the > bastards had to say this time? Some bad, but most good (shocking, isn't it!) There's lot of items posted on www.jmdl.com and Les is updating this on a very regular basis. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:50:13 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Hammerskins? --- anne@sandstrom.com wrote: > Bob M (SCJoniGuy) wrote All kidding aside, this kind > of > sh*t makes me ashamed to live in a country built > on things like freedom of speech. Not what the > founding > fathers & mothers had in mind... > > I can't stand the thought of a group like this > either, > Bob, but I think allowing them to voice their > opinion, > as odious as it is, is exactly what the founding > fathers had in mind. The day we tell people what to > say > and think is the day we should really be ashamed. > (Of > course, a sharp legal mind might be able to > determine > how others' civil liberties are infringed upon by > this > gathering, but I leave that to a greater mind than > mine...) When Jimmy mentioned this, I thought it was a joke. It sounds like a parody. How do you parody something like that though? It's jaw-droppingly freaky. I guess no one's civil liberties are infringed upon by people gathering together and talking trash, no matter how vile that is to those of us who abhor that kind of thing; but if they're inciting people to commit hate-crimes, that's another story. Theoretically, your right to swing your arm ends when it makes contact with my face (or something like that), but do you wait for the contact? You don't want a society that's so hampered by fear of offending someone else that it just can't speak up - otherwise, you end up with art by committee and holiday trees instead of Christmas trees. On the other hand, this kind of stuff is so offensive it's really hard to believe that these people behave this way. It makes you wonder what kind of childhoods they had that they could hate any group of people with such a vengeance. To me, it's pretty obvious that this is the kind of stuff where the civil liberties of the ones they vilify take precedence over their right to spew their venom; on the other hand, if you try to make them shut up, you drive them underground, which is probably even more frightening - I'd rather have them out in the open where the rest of us can laugh at them and shed a little light on their nastiness. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:59:21 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: THAT C&S SONG >>I believe Help Me got all the way to #2 on the Canadian charts.<< And what was number one when Help Me was number 2? And whatever happened to the artist(s) who had the number one? I'm thinking of the Ultravox hit 'Vienna' being kept off the number one spot by a dreadful 'novelty' song called "What's a matter you?" or some suchlike by someone called Joe Dolce or some suchlike. mike in barcelona np beth orton - Anywhere ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:00:39 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Hammerskins? --- Catherine McKay wrote: > - --- anne@sandstrom.com wrote: > Bob M (SCJoniGuy) > wrote Sorry - that should have been marked njc and I don't want to mark this one njc because the apology is to the njc-ers. Ironic. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:02:30 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: THAT C&S SONG --- mike pritchard wrote: > And what was number one when Help Me was number 2? > And whatever happened to > the artist(s) who had the number one? I'm thinking > of the Ultravox hit > 'Vienna' being kept off the number one spot by a > dreadful 'novelty' song > called "What's a matter you?" or some suchlike by > someone called Joe Dolce or > some suchlike. Oh help. I remember that dreadful song. It goes to show you that you can never overestimate the taste of the masses. I'm sure it's all part of some plot to keep us all hopelessly stupid and to keep the best artists from getting number 1 hits. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:21:49 EST From: OzWoman321@aol.com Subject: All I Want (Joni) Hello, All - Debra wrote: > I always think of Joni as the woman with the hole in her stocking, > dancing shoeless and with sensual abandon. She's so enamored and in the > moment of her new passion that something she'd normally fix now seems > trivial. There's a celebration going on! Didn't it feel good? Indeed. I agree! - I think this line in Help Me is just the flip side of the lyric in All I Want: "Alive, alive, I want to get up and jive I want to wreck my stockings in some jukebox dive Do you want - do you want - do you want To dance with me baby Do you want to take a chance On maybe finding some sweet romance with me baby Well, come on" Now *that's* passion! Susan http://www.heartsdesireconcerts.com "It's coming on Christmas They're cutting down trees They're putting up reindeer And singing songs of joy and peace Oh I wish I had a river I could skate away on But it don't snow here It stays pretty green..." ~ Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 10:22:49 -0500 From: vince Subject: hey friends Everyone, just a quick note and you all do not need to respond personally because I know what your response will be and that I will feel it -- my father is having rather unscheduled heart bypass surgery on Monday and as no one was expecting it I have to move my work schedule around so that I can be in Chicago by Sunday night, and of course my Dad is on the more anxious side -like I say, you don't been to respond personally, I know you will be all doing in your way some prayers for my father - Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:01:32 -0500 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: re:Edgar Allen Poe Okay, I'll play... The Fall of the House of Harry A Cask of You Murders in the Rue Morgantown Edith and the Pendulum Sadly though, I think the Poe reference was merely another case of journalistic laziness. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:03:02 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: THAT C&S SONG I love Help Me. It is the first Joni song I ever heard (cracked my musical world right open) and it remains one of my favorites (especially in combo with Court and Spark and Free Man - what a trio). The major 7th chords just slay me -- how perfectly they reflect the experience of falling in love - the risk you take letting someone you know that you're falling in love with them - wonderful and awful all at the same time. And she takes the big leap in the third verse -- after falling in love "again" and "too fast" -- I think I'm falling in love *with you*. sigh. Jenny mtotzke@gosympatico.ca wrote:Here I go again, writing about HELP ME. (I had used the "H" word as the "subject" and so those posts got bounced.) Anyone out there as big a fan of HM as I am? Delightfully perverse as she is, Joni has sort of "disowned" her only Top 10 hit, claiming it's an "ingenue" song. At the risk of incurring the wrath of our Joan, I don't think it IS that. The woman of HP has been around the block a few times; and I'd love to hear the mature Joni tackle it (shades of "Falling in love again / Never wanted to..."). I think it's a brilliant song: short, pithy, economical, universal, lighter than air. And "'Cause I've seen some hot hot blazes / Come down to smoke and ash" gets me every time. If she ever does do an album with her excellent jazz combo (pretty please, Joni?), wouldn't SMOKE AND ASH be an apt title? MICHAEL in Toronto Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 11:36:49 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: Travelogue - thumbs down I'm afraid <> Actually, yes- but over time. 1. PIZZA - did not like until I turned 18 2. TACOS - did not like until my late 20's 3. ONIONS - did not like until my 30's 4. GREEN PEPPERS - just started liking them a year ago Now, If only I could start to like peanut butter, and become sick of chocolate :-) When "Taming the Tiger" first came out, I wasn't all that excited about it. I did not think it was very melodic. I kept revisiting it and now I absolutely cannot get enough! I think it is extremely melodic and I'm humming the tunes in the shower all the time! Come to think of it, my 2 fav Joni albums, FTR and DJRD took awhile before they became my favorites. Mia _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:52:48 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Hits, Misses, Omissions While I liked Hits & Misses, I always felt it was woefully incomplete, ignoring huge pockets of her work. So, after reading an online review of the pair of albums that backed up my sentiment, I decided to come up with a THIRD compilation CD called "Omissions" and burned it on a CDR, even made a snazzy cover for it in the style of the other two. So, we have Hits, Misses and Omissions. See what you think of my track listing... 1. Dreamland 2. Don't Interrupt the Sorrow 3. I Don't Know Where I Stand 4. Rainy Night House 5. Down to You 6. Cold Blue Steel And Sweet Fire 7. Night in the City 8. All I Want 9. The Hissing Of Summer Lawns 10. Blue Motel Room 11. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter 12. Lakota 13. The Only Joy In Town 14. The Sire Of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song) 15. Shadows And Light Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 12:54:46 -0500 From: vince Subject: Travelogue - Wow! A new opinion on Travelogue: last night I had a really fine date. The first album I played was T'log disk 2. The second album: Clark Carlton's album. The third album: Neil Young 's Harvest Moon. In between we saw 8 Mile (that is the Eminem content that you expect.) It all worked. It all worked very well. It all worked for good. So I must love T'log since it played a part in an evening such as I haven't had in a long, long, long time. So that is my foursome for success -- packing for Chicago - I may post a little bit more before I leave tomorrow but then I will be on a few days hiatus. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:00:38 -0000 From: "Adam Mulvey" Subject: Re: THAT C&S SONG > >>I believe Help Me got all the way to #2 on the Canadian charts.<< As far as I can tell, the highest it got was number 17: http://www.webfitz.com/lyrics/Charts/1974/Ch197405.html What do you mean, get a life? ;-) Adam ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:13:45 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: THAT C&S SONG Help Me: As far as I can tell, the highest it got was number 17 Curses! Foiled again! I got the #2 stat from some star-bio on Joni in a local newspaper a few years ago. I may have misread it, or it might have been that Court & Spark was at one time the # 2 album in Canada - I don't know. It was by far her most commercially successful record, though - in Canada or anywhere. - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:24:48 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hits, Misses, Omissions In a message dated 12/07/2002 12:53:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: > See what you think of my track listing... > > It's certainly a fine list...always tough for me to think objectively about lists like that though, because Joni's got so many great songs it would fill up about 20 cd's - matter of fact they do! :~) How about "I Think I Understand"? That's one of my favorites, an absolutely beautiful song with a strong lyric, and seems to "omitted" most of the time. "Today I am not prey to dark uncertainty..." wow, one of the most faith-inducing lines out there. Much like "The Dawntreader" is rendered so nicely on T'log, I would have liked to see more of these older songs be more fleshed out as well. Fiddle & The Drum is of course brilliant as acapella and perhaps most effective in that style, but it would also work with some orchestration. I listened to Clouds yesterday, and it always strikes me how good those songs are (Roses Blue & Songs to Aging Children being the exceptions for me, I think) but some are in such a stark "frame" they could be better appreciated in a more ornate fashion. Christine Sullivan's cover of "I Think I Understand" proves me right I would say. Bob, still without power at In-law's house... NP: Blue Mountain, "Wicked Ways" 11.24.00 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:26:18 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Lady with the hole in her stocking **** > > I always thought Joni was the lady with the hole in > her stocking (Didn't it feeeeeeeeel good? Didn't it > feel GOOD!") Also identified with that as I almost > always have a hole in my stocking. > I've always thought so too, Catherine. Especially coupled with the line from 'The Boho Dance' 'A camera pans the cocktail hour/behind a blind of potted palms/And finds a lady in a Paris dress/with runs in her nylons'. I've always felt that one was Joni too. Her free spirited nature doesn't get too hung up about things like holes or runs in her stockings, even though she does like to dress up in designer gowns. Just one of the many dualities of Our Lady. I've always heard 'I've seen some hard, hot blazes come down to smoke & ash' and yes, it is a great line from a wonderful song. I've always felt that the line 'we love our lovin'/but not like we love our freedom' was the perfect summation of the confusion wrought by the sexual revolution of the 60s & 70s. Alas, as Joni has said in more recent years, there is no such thing as 'free love'. C&S was my first Joni and it was life-changing as far as my appreciation of music and lyrics is concerned. I couldn't believe that someone I had never met could verbalize so many of my own thoughts and feelings so articulately and so beautifully. That record is etched on my brain cells, every note & every word. It is as close to a perfect marriage of art and pop culture as you can get. It is fitted together like a piece of intricate machinery and runs like clock work from beginning to end. The in-depth analysis and musical exploration of 'Hejira' and 'Mingus' were yet to come. But C&S has an abundance of rewards for the discriminating listener. It may sound lighter than the later albums but there is plenty of depth there. I'm like Muller on this one. Once I hear those opening piano chords, I'm hooked in for the ride. The way 'People's Parties' segues smoothly into 'The Same Situation', the string quartet on 'Down to You', the weary yet sympathetic analysis of the 'Trouble Child', the raucous playfulness of 'Raised On Robbery' and the more sophisticated playfulness of Annie Ross's 'Twisted' - I love every bit of it! Mark E in Seattle C&S lover ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:41:17 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Just Like This Train Just Like This Train is one of my favourites from C&S. I think it's one of her most joyful songs. She really captures the lazy feeling of shuffling cars in train yards and the mood of happy travel, unlike the restless journeys of Hejira and DJRD. While she does seem to be escaping some kind of pain, she's found happiness in a crowded waiting room of a train station. My favourite verse: "Well, I've got this berth and this roll-down blind/I've got this fold-up sink/And these rocks and these cactuses going by/And a bottle of German wine to drink [then comes that boozy cord that fleshes out the effects of German wine on our wayward blond]/Settle down into the clickety-clack with the clouds and the stars to read/Dreamin' of the pleasure I'm gonna have/Watchin' your hairline recede, my vain darlin'" What an image! What a fantastic gathering of thoughts, feelings, scenery and moods, all brought to life by that serpentine voice and the lazy drawl of the music. Gorgeous song, gorgeous album...(The Travelogue version of Just Like This Train does nothing for me, unfortunately - the orchestra kills the subtleties.) - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:43:42 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Lady with the hole in her stocking In a message dated 12/07/2002 1:27:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: > . I'm like Muller on this one. Whoo-Hoo! I love it when we agree! :~) And further to Joni as "album writer", that's a very good point, BUT I have no problem hearing Joni on shuffle mode, with the exceptions being Shadows & Light, Miles of Aisles, and Court & Spark. It just sounds disjointed hearing some of those songs separated from their adjoining twins! I'm also pretty sure that Joni is the dancing lady with the hole in her stocking...gawd she can't stand up without moving, which is a good thing. When I saw her in '98 I thought her "dancing" while she played her guitar was very hypnotizing & sensual. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:48:28 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: Lady with the hole in her stocking >>>When I saw her in '98 I thought her "dancing" while she played her guitar was very hypnotizing & sensual.>>> So did I. I couldn't believe how sexy it was. She was swiveling her hips in tiny circular motions, tapping her feet, tossing her hair and effortlessly letting her fingers dance across the strings of her VG8. It WAS mezmerizing. Stationary but never still. - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:55:59 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Just Like This Train In a message dated 12/07/2002 1:39:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: > Dreamin' of the pleasure I'm gonna have/Watchin' your hairline recede, my > vain darlin'" > And when she adds the playful mocking laughter after the first part in her concerts, and in some cases changes "darlin'" to "baldy" which is just funny as all getout to me (and may be another poke at Sweet Baby James for all of you keeping score). And I would be remiss in my duties as the "Cover Colonel" if I didn't thank Susan (not the Guzzi one) for alerting me to the first ever (that *I* know of) officially released cover of JLTT! Andrew Hardin does it, in fact his CD takes its title from it...so I'm not gonna mess with telling what the name of the cd is! :~) Haven't heard it yet but I'm excited to. I need to flush that Manilow out. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:58:42 -0000 From: "Paul Headon" Subject: Travelogue Best and worst.... Hi I am really enjoying travelogue my 3 favourites are 1 Dawnteader A really great atmospheric filling out of a simpler early song 2 Cheroke louise Great just Great even better than the exvellent earlier version 3 You dream flat tires swings so well Least Favourite 1 Woodstock a heavy , almost leaden, version of such a song of great 70's optimism. Other peoples views on their best and worst perhaps..... Best wishes, Paul Headon Wales - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 02/12/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:41:55 -0500 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: More thoughts on Joni in the park Came to me in my sleep this morning around 6 am. About the "to be or not to be`` smoking issue. A compromise that could please everyone! Why not just have Joan's right arm draped along the back of the bench with her middle and index fingers close enough to hold a cig, without actually having a bronze one in place?. A bronze cigarette would be very tacky, I say, and people would probably stroke it for good luck! For those die-hards who insist on seeing a cigarette in her hands (and I fully understand, while not sharing that opinion), they could light one up and put a real one in place. It could be our little (perverse) joke...kinda like the way those people in Seattle dress up their bronze pedestrians in winter. And speaking of clothes, I see Joni wearing a shallow-brimmed hat (small enough to expose some of her face, but large enough to keep snow and pidgeon poop off it!) and long sleeves and slacks. Can't imagine a silk chiffon dress in minus 30 weather! I would also nix the idea of showing her playing music or singing or any movement, for that matter, as modern sculptural attempts to arrest motion in time often look amateurish at best (I think we lost that art - - portraying motion, sometime after the Renaissance). IMHO, it would be more dignified to have her just sitting there, lost in her thoughts, pondering one of those bridges over the river, maybe the Broadway Bridge, where she played with Cherokee Louise as a young girl. Michael in Quebec ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:28:57 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: re:Travelogue - Wow! Her delivery of "Leave behind your streets he said and come here to me" makes me weak in the knees. She also changed the lyric "I have brought some dreams to share" to "I have brought my dreams to share". And we all know one of the dreams is of baby. Its nice to see her claim her dream. peace, david (still T'logging and lovin' it) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:17:21 -0500 From: Doug Subject: Travelogue I liked it when I first listenad to it and I'm lovin' it more every day. A few thoughts: Songs I could do without: Circle Game - tooo slloooww; Woodstock - not one of her best songs IMO. Song I am glad was included: The Dawntreader - Mr. Mendoza was a bit too busy but I love that song. Song I wish was included: River - my fave. C'mon Joni trash that VG-8 and sit down at the piano again! And now my shocking confession: The last JM album I bought was HOSL back in '75, so, many songs on TLOG are new to me. The "new" songs I like best are: Amelia, Refuge and Hejira. I guess I'll have to get the Hejira CD, an overlooked gem on my part. Doug ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #381 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)