From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #378 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, December 6 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 378 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Travelogue - thumbs down I'm afraid [Eric W Taylor ] Re: Joni's statue and smoking [colin ] Re: Travelogue - thumbs down I'm afraid [colin ] Travelogue - no mention of smoking or statues ["Mickey Morose" ] RE: Travelogue-thumbs down ["Chris Marshall" ] RE: Travelogue-thumbs down [LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk] Re: Joni's statue and smoking ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Joni's statue and smoking ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: hi everybody!!!(with dr. nicks inflections {from the simpsons}) [SCJo] RE: joni's smoking ["Heather" ] Joni's Bronze in Saskatoon Project, 100% JC I suppose..... ["Jim L'Homme] joni's statue [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: joni's statue ["Heather" ] Re: confused ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: joni's smoking ["Lori Fye" ] JM's Beside Herself statue - please note email address [Sarah Gibb ] Re: joni's smoking ["Lori Fye" ] re:Edgar Allen Poe ["mia ortlieb" ] RE: Edgar Allen Poe ["Jerry Notaro" ] MISSING [] Variety ["Jerry Notaro" ] THE "H" WORD [] THE MAGDALENE SISTERS ["Jerry Notaro" ] Re: THE "H" WORD [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Travelogue-thumbs down ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Joni Beside Herself ["Kate Bennett" ] Travelogue-thumbs down ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni & Dylan, why didn't it ever happen?? ["blonde in the bleachers" ] FTR RIAA gold record on eBay ["Lori Fye" ] Reviews of Joni - In General - Travelogue specifically [ATaublib@aol.com] Re: Reviews of Joni - In General - Travelogue specifically [SCJoniGuy@aol] Re: Usama's Beard & the Big Boobed Blonde [FredNow@aol.com] blue's clues ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: blue's clues [Jerry Notaro ] Re: blue's clues [Mags N Brei ] Re: blue's clues ["Bill Dollinger" ] Re: MISSING ["Christopher Treacy" ] RE: blue's clues ["Kate Bennett" ] My ideas on Joni's statue [Merk54@aol.com] RE: My ideas on Joni's statue ["Jerry Notaro" ] Spin Magazine ["Jerry Notaro" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 03:11:08 -0500 From: Eric W Taylor Subject: Re: Travelogue - thumbs down I'm afraid AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: << Oh dear! I was kind of dreading this. I finally bought it today and am playing disc one as I type this. Her voice isn't in as bad shape as I'd feared (then again I'd imagined a deathly croak, perhaps as an insurance policy, knowing that it couldn't be quite that shot) - but I still find it painful to listen to. Joni's voice sounds parched and exhausted, and I'm not hearing this marvellously expressive instrument that others have been hearing. It's like watching an old and frail person staggering along a cliff, I'm almost holding my breath. >> I always love it when a critical reviewer pans an album admittedly before listening to the first half of it. Congratulations Azeem! I hereby present you with the short-attention span award for reviewer bias. ET PS Perhaps your 'pain' stems from a deep fear of getting older? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 09:27:39 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Joni's statue and smoking > No offence intended to you personally. > > Best, > > Sarah > > and none taken bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 09:57:35 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Travelogue - thumbs down I'm afraid > I always love it when a critical reviewer pans an album >admittedly before listening to the first half of it. > Congratulations Azeem! I hereby present you with the >short-attention span award for reviewer bias. > ET > PS Perhaps your 'pain' stems from a deep fear of getting older? > > it pisses me off to see people being slammed for having a different opinion. Not everyone is going to like Traveloague or everything Joni has done. h=Get over it. there is no excuse for this sort of petty and nasty response. I remember well that you left the list in a huff when BSN came out because some people wrote negatively about it. I note you have of grown out of this attitude. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 11:03:54 +0000 From: "Mickey Morose" Subject: Travelogue - no mention of smoking or statues So far I've only listened to the second c.d., prompted by wanting to hear Refuge properly after loving it on my tinny computer speakers and really really loving it on the hifi. wow! IMHO this is fantastic and while to me it is still the highlight it is surrounded by great stuff on that disc - some of the best songs ever written (surely no argument there) in different interpretations that often shed fresh light and new meanings. I am disappointed by the beginning and ending of the disc - I've never particularly liked Be Cool, that's probably just me so ignore it and I can skip that one if I want and still have an hour of potentially great stuff. But then ... at the end ... Circle Game - doesn't do it for me. I know it is a lovely song and it would be sacrilege to criticise it unduly, but I've yet to hear a version of it that I can really get into. Even on Clouds, I don't like the chorus - and yes, I do know who it is but I don't care. An I doomed never to get this song, which I know to many is one of their favorites? But I love the rest, and over the weekend will be turning my attention to cd1. Can't wait. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:12:58 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: confused Now I don't know whether to stop smoking or switch to American Spirits Andrea in NY ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:12:34 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Beside Herself I think that if the purpose were to capture every aspect of Joni, then there would have to be a cigarette involved. However, that sounds like trying to do too much. She will be remembered for her songwriting, her singing, her piano, guitar and dulcimer playing, her poetry, her painting (and her painful honesty). Can we leave one of them out ? Except for us fans, she will not be remembered at all for her smoking. Of her cover art, most does not depict her smoking - with Hejira a notable exception. Still, if she is smoking, she cannot be playing or singing very easily. My favorite picture of her is an early one playing the dulcimer - with a little girl with that wide wide open stare gazing up at her. I vote for that one - no need to design a new one. Design the seat in an arc, and leave some room on the other side for me to sit and stare too :-) Bob S. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:26:33 EST From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #376 In a message dated 12/6/2002 2:02:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > Then again, she also needs her dulcimer, guitars > (acoustic, electric, VG8, whatever), her piano, > preferably a grand; that'd be nice. She has cats too, > so maybe there should be cats all around her (maybe > one on her shoulder?). And then again there's her new > little doggie. She needs to have her paints and her > easel, and some paper to write down the lyrics of new > songs. What should she be wearing? Something by Issey? > (maybe he can donate something to the cause, like a > dress made out of bronze). My goodness, this is > getting kind of busy. Hmm, how about a desk to put the > paper on that she's writing the lyrics on so she > doesn't have to hold it? how about a couple of extra > hands to hold all that stuff? how about a marble > bowling ball over the month of June? Saskatoon gets > cold in winter. She's going to need a coat and a good > pair of winter boots, maybe with an extra pair of > heavy socks to keep her feet warm. Don't forget the > hat, she needs one of those. Is she still drinking > that German wine? Get her a bottle of that. And a > glass to drink it out of; we can't have Joni slugging > it back from the bottle. Aw, jeez, get her a whole > case; she's going to be there a while. (How big is > this park or wherever the statue's going to be? Is > there room for a Lexus?) > > > > ===== > Catherine > Toronto > > Very funny! You've nailed just some of what should be included - I say you have a mean old daddy looking over her shoulder. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:00:34 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Beside Herself Earlier I posted: > My favorite picture of her is an early one playing the dulcimer - with a > little girl with that wide wide open stare gazing up at her. I vote for > that one - no need to design a new one. Design the seat in an arc, and > leave some room on the other side for me to sit and stare too :-) > Further to that post, I would add 1. the photo is on page 65 of Stacy Luftig's JM Companion 2. I envision a circular pond, with the statue somewhere on the perimiter (facing southwest, perhaps ?) 3. For props, I can see Joni in a beret to protect her eyes from the sun a bit, and the little girl holding a jar with a dragonfly in it (surely some sculptor can think of a way to make that happen). 4. Title - Joni Mitchell and Little Girl in the Park (note - the photo is copyrighted Corbis/Henry Diltz if that is a minor issue) 5. Can I see the opening two lines of The Circle Game inscribed under the title ? 6. The scene has motion, too, which I like. Really, this has to be the one :-) Bob S. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:51:17 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Travelogue-thumbs down Azeem wrote: > Subject: Travelogue - thumbs down I'm afraid > > Oh dear! I was kind of dreading this. I finally bought it today and am > playing disc one as I type this. Her voice isn't in as bad shape as I'd > feared (then again I'd imagined a deathly croak, perhaps as an insurance > policy, knowing that it couldn't be quite that shot) - but I still find it > painful to listen to. Joni's voice sounds parched and exhausted, and I'm not > hearing this marvellously expressive instrument that others have been > hearing. ........ > Azeem in London, dismayed to find that my main reaction at the end of disc > one was relief that it was over. > Hello Azeem, Allow me to congratulate you for your courage to express your feelings. I also posted some negative reactions (although not as drastic as yours) and based on the off-list mails I've received we're not alone, except that many are afraid to go on-list for fear of alienating JMDLers. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:15:04 -0000 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: Travelogue-thumbs down Egads. This is bad news indeed when people can't express a negative opinion about Joni's work without fear of reprisals. We can't all like everything, Joni's music covers too many musical styles for that. Flame me if ya like, but I dislike most of her material from the 80s. If we're all expected to unconditionally like everything, we also look, to the outside world, like a bunch of sad obsessives. That'd be Bad [tm]. So, anyway. Rolling back around to Travelogue, as I listen to it more, I start to mentally imagine it as more of a stage show than a mere record. The arrangements of some songs are very much like an opera or musical. It's curious, but not unpleasant. And I'm really getting into this version of "Slouching", which left no impression in its original form. All I want now is for her to come and play the Royal Albert Hall in London, with the LSO. That'd be nice :) - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:29:25 -0000 From: LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk Subject: RE: Travelogue-thumbs down All I want now is for her to come and play the Royal Albert Hall in London, with the LSO. That'd be nice :) - --Chris meanwhile back on planet earth, les is warming to travelogue. i concur with azeem's impression that mr mendoza attempts too much with some arrangements thereby burying beatuful work - including his own. the wtrf cuts are particular beneficiaries of the mendoza touch as is god must be a boogie man. flame war or not, i think hejira in this form is a travesty and have said so elsewhere. but for me it's still a brilliant collection of work that will become a favourite of mine. and it's such a pleasure to listen to joni sing. she sings beautifully. les (rushing off to a meeting) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 06:30:56 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Joni's statue and smoking It's hard to watch someone with lung damage. My mother smoked for about 50 years and has copd. She can only get meds so often or she will "develop a resistance", which of course means she'll become temporarily be unable to breath for an hour or so and could die from any one of those episodes. After trying to get her to stop for about 20 years, there's no satisfaction in seeing that I was right. Lama - --- Sarah Gibb wrote: > When they develop the cough, they call it > "smokers' cough", > when they should be calling it lung damage. Smoking > and obesity are > two of the major causes of death in North America. > We don't think > it's cool when people eat themselves to death, and > we wouldn't think > it respectful to build a statue of Elvis Presley > holding burgers and > pies in his hands, even though eating was as much > his trademark at > the end of his life as smoking is Joni Mitchell's. > > COPD (smokers' disease - bronchitis and emphysema) > is the fourth > leading cause of death in America. In 2000, 10 > million people were > listed as having been diagnosed with COPD, 1.5 > million visited an > emergency room because of it, 726,000 were > hospitalized with it, and > 119,000 died from it. Another 14 million Americans > are believed to > suffer from COPD undiagnosed. Death rates are an > underestimate > because many death certificates will say "heart > attack" or "old age", > and won't bother to mention the lung damage that > caused the heart to > stop. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 06:30:56 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Joni's statue and smoking It's hard to watch someone with lung damage. My mother smoked for about 50 years and has copd. She can only get meds so often or she will "develop a resistance", which of course means she'll become temporarily be unable to breath for an hour or so and could die from any one of those episodes. After trying to get her to stop for about 20 years, there's no satisfaction in seeing that I was right. Lama - --- Sarah Gibb wrote: > When they develop the cough, they call it > "smokers' cough", > when they should be calling it lung damage. Smoking > and obesity are > two of the major causes of death in North America. > We don't think > it's cool when people eat themselves to death, and > we wouldn't think > it respectful to build a statue of Elvis Presley > holding burgers and > pies in his hands, even though eating was as much > his trademark at > the end of his life as smoking is Joni Mitchell's. > > COPD (smokers' disease - bronchitis and emphysema) > is the fourth > leading cause of death in America. In 2000, 10 > million people were > listed as having been diagnosed with COPD, 1.5 > million visited an > emergency room because of it, 726,000 were > hospitalized with it, and > 119,000 died from it. Another 14 million Americans > are believed to > suffer from COPD undiagnosed. Death rates are an > underestimate > because many death certificates will say "heart > attack" or "old age", > and won't bother to mention the lung damage that > caused the heart to > stop. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 09:45:13 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: hi everybody!!!(with dr. nicks inflections {from the simpsons}) In a message dated 12/5/2002 7:54:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, walterphil@excite.com writes: > have you ever heard annie lennox' studio version of > "ladies?" it is faboo. Yes indeed it is, Walt...it's one that'll appear on the tribute cd (assuming it ever sees the light of day), in the meantime I'm glad it's already out there! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:57:13 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: joni's smoking I would think that Joni would want to be remembered for her music ... not her smoking. Then again, I could be wrong. Portraying Joni playing a guitar, piano would reflect on her talents as a musician as stated below. Hmmm... I agree ... that statue would look ridiculous and tacky if it were actually smoking. Maybe it could be letting off a little steam instead to reflect her past interviews ;-) Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Aerchak@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 8:02 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: joni's smoking I do no think such emphasis should be placed on the whole to smoke or not to smoke thing. We all know that Joni is a hard core, dedicated smoker. And I'm sure no one is really happy about that but it simply is the way it is. However, the statue is not going to be erected because she is a great smoker but because she is a great artist. So I think the emphasis should be on that. Joni cannot smoke while she's playing guitar. At least she never did when I saw her in concert. So if the statue includes playing the guitar, problem solved. She can have a pack in her pocket, if need be. I definitely don't think the statue should actually be SMOKING. That's just hilariously absurd. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:05:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Joni's Bronze in Saskatoon Project, 100% JC I suppose..... And an appreciative Llama, at a respectful distance beaming with pride.... I'm building my own idea in private. Lama - --- StDoherty@aol.com wrote: she also needs her dulcimer, guitars > > (acoustic, electric, VG8, whatever), her piano, > > preferably a grand; that'd be nice. She has cats > too, > > so maybe there should be cats all around her > (maybe > > one on her shoulder?). And................. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 10:08:59 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: joni's statue Does anyone know if the sculptor Claes Oldenburg is still on this side of the grass? If so, he could create the perfect statue of Joni -- an enormous cigarette butt sticking out of the ground! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:13:49 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: joni's statue and the smoke coming out is in the image of joni? ;-) did you look oldenburg up on the web? best, heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Murphycopy@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 10:09 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: joni's statue Does anyone know if the sculptor Claes Oldenburg is still on this side of the grass? If so, he could create the perfect statue of Joni -- an enormous cigarette butt sticking out of the ground! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:13:18 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: confused You forgot the smiley face, right? If not, "confused" is the perfect subject line. As a non-smoker, I can lend some clarity. Try asking yourself this in front of a mirror: "Should I cut off a whole hand or maybe just one finger?" Please stop. And this goes for everyone else too: Kakki, Alison, & Claud9. "May you stayeee-eee for-evahh-young." Lama > Now I don't know whether to stop smoking or switch > to American Spirits > > Andrea in NY Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 07:39:46 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: joni's smoking > Saskatoon gets cold in winter. You know, this has already crossed my mind. How warm does it get in summer? Will Joni be overdressed, or underdressed? And about the depiction of her age ... someone suggested young, as she was in Saskatoon. Or (Sharon), should she be depicted as middle-aged? I personally like her look on the cover of Hejira, beret and all. Although I'm also LOVING DF's sketch of JM on the bench. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 09:43:25 -0700 From: Sarah Gibb Subject: JM's Beside Herself statue - please note email address Could I ask anyone who has messages for the Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself committee to send emails either to the individual email addresses if you know them, or to BesideHerself@shaw.ca. Please don't send anything to the general committee email address. Many thanks. Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:47:22 -0500 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: Re: joni's smoking how about the inside of For the Roses... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Fye" To: "Catherine McKay" ; Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 10:39 AM Subject: Re: joni's smoking > Saskatoon gets cold in winter. You know, this has already crossed my mind. How warm does it get in summer? Will Joni be overdressed, or underdressed? And about the depiction of her age ... someone suggested young, as she was in Saskatoon. Or (Sharon), should she be depicted as middle-aged? I personally like her look on the cover of Hejira, beret and all. Although I'm also LOVING DF's sketch of JM on the bench. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 07:55:05 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: joni's smoking > how about the inside of For the Roses... Works for me, but can she still wear the beret? L. ~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 10:05:01 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re:Edgar Allen Poe What about the "raven" curls from Harry's House? Okay, this may be a stretch........but HOSL is such a wonderful album, filled with so many literary references. Mia NP: Joni - "Mr Blue" (from 2nd fret sessions) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:28:41 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: RE: Edgar Allen Poe Most interpret this as Raveen, a hair straightening product used by Black women. After using the product, the hair could be rolled up into curls which was quite popular at the time. Jerry - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of mia ortlieb Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 11:05 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: re:Edgar Allen Poe What about the "raven" curls from Harry's House? Okay, this may be a stretch........but HOSL is such a wonderful album, filled with so many literary references. Mia NP: Joni - "Mr Blue" (from 2nd fret sessions) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:29:43 -0500 From: Subject: MISSING The selection of songs on T'LOG ( a fine representation of La J's work over the years) got me thinking about MISSES again. Anyone other than me think the choices are odd? According to Joni herself, this was meant to be a collection of songs that could've/should've been HITS. We're talking pre-TTT and BSN here. Here are my own personal choices. It drives me crazy that none of them were hits. A Case of You Car on a Hill In France... Edith... Coyote Cotton Avenue Jericho The Dry Cleaner... Wild Things... Impossible Dreamer Lucky Girl My Secret Place Night Ride Home Cherokee Louise Nothing Can be Done Sex Kills What do you good folks think of this list? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:40:18 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Variety Huge story on Joni and Nonesuch records with a color photo of the cover of Travelogue in the December 2 issue of Variety. Eagle Eye Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:47:11 -0500 From: Subject: THE "H" WORD To all: Bob Muller cleared up the mystery -- as to why two of my posts disappeared into the ether. Both were about the song HELP ME; and I was putting HELP in the subject line, which means the messages were bounced. How d'ya like that?! Michael (in Toronto) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:53:17 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: THE MAGDALENE SISTERS THE MAGDALENE SISTERS Certificate: 15 Running time: 120 mins Starring: Geraldine McEwan, Anne-Marie Duff, Nora-Jane Noone, Dorothy Duffy, Eileen Walsh, Mary Murray Produced in the U.K. and just nominated for best film by the Eoropean Film Awards Committee. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:04:42 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: THE "H" WORD Michael wrote: > Bob Muller cleared up the mystery -- as to why two of > my posts disappeared into the ether. Both were about > the song HELP ME; and I was putting HELP in the > subject line, which means the messages were > bounced. How d'ya like that?! > A message sent with any of the following words in the subject or the first five lines of the message will bounce: get help subscribe unsubscribe Hope that helps anyone else who's post don't show up. Happy Friday Everyone! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 09:34:37 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Travelogue-thumbs down Laurent wrote: > Allow me to congratulate you for your courage to express your > feelings. I also posted some negative reactions (although not as > drastic as yours) and based on the off-list mails I've received we're > not alone, except that many are afraid to go on-list for fear of > alienating JMDLers. I really like T'log, but you know, it really is okay not to like a Joni album. Joni is a bloody genius (thanks for that, Andrea), but she's not a goddess!! Dissenting opinions should always be accepted here. Lori, in the minority as a DED-head ~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:04:11 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Joni Beside Herself well as much as joni's cig is part of her 'image' i agree that leaving out the cig is best...having her play an instrument would be much more appropriate & this is why we are honoring her- for her music/lyrics...i like the idea of the young joni since the statue is in saskatoon...& really like the dulcimer idea as it would make a nice visual impression & she played it lots in her early days...debra the arc is such a lovely idea... >>My favorite picture of her is an early one playing the dulcimer - with a little girl with that wide wide open stare gazing up at her. I vote for that one - no need to design a new one. Design the seat in an arc, and leave some room on the other side for me to sit and stare too :-) Bob S. >> ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:14:22 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Travelogue-thumbs down i am one of those who posted about loving t'log & i felt many critics weren't listening carefully but i don't apply that same criticism to jmdlrs who don't like it because well, i know you all really listen! lol ... we just can't all agree about the music we like & even which of joni's music we like or dislike...so i hope i haven't fed into the feeling that makes people here afraid to say they don't like t'log...i find it so interesting at not alienating at all! i may disagree with you & want to make points as to why this is, but i won't feel alienated ever!!!! hope this helps to encourages those who may feel intimidated... laurent >>Allow me to congratulate you for your courage to express your feelings. I also posted some negative reactions (although not as drastic as yours) and based on the off-list mails I've received we're not alone, except that many are afraid to go on-list for fear of alienating JMDLers. ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 13:16:59 -0500 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: Re: Joni & Dylan, why didn't it ever happen?? I have Blood on the Tracks, and think it is a great album but I am not a huge fan of Bob Dylan, I could never really relate to him like I can to Joni...I also had this really apathetic friend in college who is a genius but does nothing now except take money from his parents, drink coffee and smoke ciggarettes and he lives and dies by Dylan and everytime I hear any Dylan I think of his wasted potential and he refuses to even consider Joni in the same league which pisses me off to no end... If you look at the men Joni did date....JT, David Crosby, and Graham Nash (to name a few) they were all bohemian style men as opposed to the scraggly look of Bob Dylan (although JT did have a scraggly look about him, he is pretty tall)...if I were to take a guess I would say that the reason they didn't ever go out is because Joni is just way to good for him at least that is what she would say...ha ha >From: "Adam Mulvey" >Reply-To: "Adam Mulvey" >To: >Subject: Re: Joni & Dylan, why didn't it ever happen?? >Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:09:14 -0000 > > > I was just wondering everyone's opinion about why Joni and Bob Dylan > > >never > > became romantically involved???? They were obviously knew alot of the > > >same > > people and traveled to the same places......why no court and spark??? > >Court and Spark might just have been part of the problem. There's an >interesting story in one of Dylan's biographies - (possibly Clinton Heylin's >'Behind the Shades', but I may have just made that up to make me look >better) - about an evening the two of them spent together with their >respective entourages in January 1974, the month both Court and Spark and >Planet Waves were released. Dylan's hangers-on set the Master's new LP on >the turntable; and, naturally, proceeded to praise it as a work of genius. >Unfazed, Joni then put the needle down on her own latest effort.... to >widespread indifference, most notably from Dylan himself. Of course, the >story may be apocryphal, but the more you read about Dylan, the more sense >you get of a mammoth ego that needs constant attention. For a strong-willed >woman with an ego of her own, and a talent to match, it can't have been >appealing (just look at what happened to Joan Baez - the Rolling Thunder >revue was damaging for her in a way that it wasn't for Joni, because she and >the Bobmeister had never been involved). Plus, having always been stuck >with that patronising 'female Dylan' tag, it would have done Joni's >credibility no favours; and it could have only ended in murder, as I think >she herself has said. But you get the impression that each of them still >has a wary respect for the other. > >(Even though Court and Spark is to Planet Waves what Blonde on Blonde is to >Sunshine Superman.) > >You tend to hear it said that most people who have Blue in their record >collection will have a corresponding Blood on the Tracks somewhere. Are >most Joni Mitchell fans at least vague Bob Dylan fans too? > >Adam (Hello, I'm a fresher here, don't beat me up.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 10:25:21 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: FTR RIAA gold record on eBay How do people get these things??? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=926483681 Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:07:45 EST From: ATaublib@aol.com Subject: Reviews of Joni - In General - Travelogue specifically Firstly, I'm new member to this list, so if I'm not following protocol please be gentle, I will learn quickly. Secondly, and most importantly, I have found after listening to Joni's works for these past 30+ years: never judge her work before listening multiple times. Like all fine works of art, it takes time to truly appreciate, and like fine wine only gets better with age. Travelogue is another jewel in Joni's crown. While not perfect (what ever is?), the music is gorgeous and brings new shades and textures to old gems. While difficult to hear such songs as "For the Roses" in any other way then the original, after listening to the Travelogue version five or six times, I'm getting more and more out of it. Finally, I don't think there is anything Joni could do that I would not wind up loving -- even if it takes a little time. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 14:33:40 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Reviews of Joni - In General - Travelogue specifically In a message dated 12/6/2002 2:07:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, ATaublib writes: > Firstly, I'm new member to this list, so if I'm not > following protocol please > be gentle, I will learn quickly. Welcome to the Jonilist! Feel free to use your name if you wish, we're all friendly folks and it helps to match at least a name with an address. The only real "protocol" is to make sure to put NJC in your subject line if your post has no Joni content. Of course, in THIS case, it was ALL Joni content! :~) I agree with you about playing any CD more than once before passing judgement, but by the same token I've fallen in love with a record on first listen, and also known the first time around that I didn't care for a record no matter how many spins I'd give it. Ironically, I liked T'log more the first time I heard it than I did when I played it over & over. Not sure why that is, maybe the newness/freshness factor peeled away to reveal more of the unrealized potential of the project for me. Whenever I hear "Flat Tires", I want to hear something else that good and I just don't, and it only eats at me more with each listen. But I'm holding out hope that someday I can grow to better enjoy it. Bob NP: Mimi Fox, "Joni Mitchell Medley" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:36:15 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Usama's Beard & the Big Boobed Blonde Eric W Taylor writes: >Laurel flipped over the packaging, particularly the paintings of 9/11, >George W vs the evil witch Really? You think that's an evil witch? I thought she was a member of the downtrodden masses giving Bush the evil eye. Or she might represent Death watching over her henchman Bush. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:49:48 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: blue's clues out of the blue, this thought appeared while looking at an old photo of joni & james (joni is soooo happy & smiling in the photo).. something about the sadness of the song blue has always made me assume that it was about james taylor... because of the drug references & his addictions & the sea references (james is a pisces) & i've always imagined james was capable of causing incredible (though unintentional) heartache...his looks, his talents, his addictions- unable in his youth to really love & yet so easy to fall in love with... blue has all of that kind of deep, sad longing love in it... one of his most famous lines is 'deep greens & blues are the colors i choose' which may have caused joni to call him 'blue' singing, 'hey blue here is a song for you' maybe this has already been discussed but for me this was a new blues clue! ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 14:44:19 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: blue's clues I have always felt this way, also. But I have been corrected on the list to say that FTR was the album Joni wrote about her relationship with James. No matter. I always picture him in Blue. Maybe we are both just "hopeless romantics" Kate. Kate Bennett wrote: > out of the blue, this thought appeared while looking at an old photo of joni > & james (joni is soooo happy & smiling in the photo).. > > something about the sadness of the song blue has always made me assume that > it was about james taylor... because of the drug references & his addictions > & the sea references (james is a pisces) & i've always imagined james was > capable of causing incredible (though unintentional) heartache...his looks, > his talents, his addictions- unable in his youth to really love & yet so > easy to fall in love with... > > blue has all of that kind of deep, sad longing love in it... > > one of his most famous lines is 'deep greens & blues are the colors i > choose' which may have caused joni to call him 'blue' singing, 'hey blue > here is a song for you' > > maybe this has already been discussed but for me this was a new blues clue! > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com > Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs > Over the Moon- > "bringing the melancholy world of twilight > to life almost like magic" All Music Guide > ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:55:04 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: blue's clues count me in....i always thought sweet baby james was her boy o' blue. mags...also a hopeless romantic. :-) Jerry Notaro wrote:I have always felt this way, also. But I have been corrected on the list to say that FTR was the album Joni wrote about her relationship with James. No matter. I always picture him in Blue. Maybe we are both just "hopeless romantics" Kate. Kate Bennett wrote: > out of the blue, this thought appeared while looking at an old photo of joni > & james (joni is soooo happy & smiling in the photo).. > > something about the sadness of the song blue has always made me assume that > it was about james taylor... because of the drug references & his addictions > & the sea references (james is a pisces) & i've always imagined james was > capable of causing incredible (though unintentional) heartache...his looks, > his talents, his addictions- unable in his youth to really love & yet so > easy to fall in love with... > > blue has all of that kind of deep, sad longing love in it... > > one of his most famous lines is 'deep greens & blues are the colors i > choose' which may have caused joni to call him 'blue' singing, 'hey blue > here is a song for you' > > maybe this has already been discussed but for me this was a new blues clue! > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com > Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs > Over the Moon- > "bringing the melancholy world of twilight > to life almost like magic" All Music Guide > ******************************************** You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:00:14 -0500 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: Re: blue's clues I always figured it to be David Blue. Bill - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mags N Brei" To: "Jerry Notaro" ; "Kate Bennett" Cc: "Joni@Smoe. Org" Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 2:55 PM Subject: Re: blue's clues count me in....i always thought sweet baby james was her boy o' blue. mags...also a hopeless romantic. :-) Jerry Notaro wrote:I have always felt this way, also. But I have been corrected on the list to say that FTR was the album Joni wrote about her relationship with James. No matter. I always picture him in Blue. Maybe we are both just "hopeless romantics" Kate. Kate Bennett wrote: > out of the blue, this thought appeared while looking at an old photo of joni > & james (joni is soooo happy & smiling in the photo).. > > something about the sadness of the song blue has always made me assume that > it was about james taylor... because of the drug references & his addictions > & the sea references (james is a pisces) & i've always imagined james was > capable of causing incredible (though unintentional) heartache...his looks, > his talents, his addictions- unable in his youth to really love & yet so > easy to fall in love with... > > blue has all of that kind of deep, sad longing love in it... > > one of his most famous lines is 'deep greens & blues are the colors i > choose' which may have caused joni to call him 'blue' singing, 'hey blue > here is a song for you' > > maybe this has already been discussed but for me this was a new blues clue! > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com > Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs > Over the Moon- > "bringing the melancholy world of twilight > to life almost like magic" All Music Guide > ******************************************** You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:14:37 -0500 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: Re: MISSING It's a great list, and I wish this was more along the lines of what we got in the end. At the time, Joni said the choices were sort of 'on the fly' and a reflection of how she had been feeling on that particular day. As you can imagine, Joni had some issues with the whole 'Hits & Misses' concept, as she was expected to put together SOME sort of collection in order to appease the reocord company, which is not her forte. - -Chris - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 11:29 AM Subject: MISSING > The selection of songs on T'LOG ( a > fine representation of La J's work over > the years) got me thinking about > MISSES again. Anyone other than me think > the choices are odd? According to Joni > herself, this was meant to be a > collection of songs that could've/should've > been HITS. > > We're talking pre-TTT and BSN here. > > Here are my own personal choices. It drives > me crazy that none of them were hits. > > A Case of You > Car on a Hill > In France... > Edith... > Coyote > Cotton Avenue > Jericho > The Dry Cleaner... > Wild Things... > Impossible Dreamer > Lucky Girl > My Secret Place > Night Ride Home > Cherokee Louise > Nothing Can be Done > Sex Kills > > What do you good folks think > of this list? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:49:53 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: blue's clues i know this is futile, but i just can't help myself...lol... i agree FTR has james all over it but that doesn't exclude blue from being about him too, ...blue is a song about being IN a relationship as opposed to being written in the wake of one (like FTR)... i bet she wrote blue during her recording of blue or just before ..we know she was incredibly emotionally fragile at this time which i can imagine her relationship with james played a part in... i don't know anything about david blue or his relationship with joni but it sure doesn't seem to be joni's style to be so obvious...(she wrote her song to graham using his nickname willy, i see blue as her sad nickname for james...whoever it is for, its a deeply hurting in the middle or heading towards the end of a relationship love song.... jerry >>I have always felt this way, also. But I have been corrected on the list to say that FTR was the album Joni wrote about her relationship with James.<< bill >>I always figured it to be David Blue.<< mags >>....i always thought sweet baby james was her boy o' blue<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 16:06:18 -0500 From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: My ideas on Joni's statue In a message dated 12/5/2002 7:54:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, walterphil@excite.com writes: > they should somehow do a collage sculpture of some sort, illustrating her songs. or just make a plaque with the lyrics of "song for sharon" or "hejira," citing them as the best > lyrics ever written, and leave it at that. Walt, I was thinking along the same lines. I don't know how practical glass would be, but I thought about having a large glass screen, maybe with a bronze in front of it. Etched on the glass would be the lyrics to Hejira, or some other song of choice. They could ask Joni what song to use, conduct a fan poll, or allow people making donations to vote on their choice of songs. If it was practical, you could even have several lyric panels, erected in a circle, kind of a Joni Stonehenge, with lyrics from some of her various eras. In addition to the lyrics, the panels could have artistic etchings, encorporating Joni themes (possibly even a hint or two of smoke to appease the smoking crowd). In the center of this could be a bronze of Joni, or preferrably a bronze collage of Joni related items - paint brushs, dobro, a guitar, an ash tray, an Eagle and a Serpent,a pair of Forceps and a Stone, a beret, etc. The collage bronze could then be set in the center of a circular bench, where you could sit, and view the various panels. If glass isn't practical, than the panels could be made of stone, or metal - hey this way, you could even put lyrics on both sides of the panels. Anyway, this was just what came to my mind when I thought of a Joni tribute. I prefer the collage idea because the likeness would be hard to capture, and then we would all be bitching that it doesn't look like her, plus then there's the whole issue of what era Joni do you portray, etc. Just my two cents worth. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:09:20 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: RE: My ideas on Joni's statue Too bad sculptor George Segal is no longer alive. I'm sure he would have loved to tackle this project. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 15:14:28 -0600 From: Subject: smokin > "Lori Fye" >wasn't there > an interview in which Joni mentioned that an Indian or shaman told her > that her smoking keeps her "grounded" or keeps her "from > disappearing"? (Does anyone else remember this?) This makes sense to me. I was taught something similar by my own spiritual teacher, only she said it's a reason many very spiritual people eat meat (when you'd think they would be the ones with the most compassion for living creatures). It lowers the vibration of energy in your body so that you literally stay more grounded, less "out there." When we did a course in psychic/spiritual development, there was a live-in weekend when we ate only vegetarian fare. That was specifically so we could more easily perceive spirit, spirit beings (guides, etc.) whose "bodies" vibrate so fast that they are not consciously perceived by most of us, whose bodies are vibrating more slowly... which makes us solid, as we are. If indeed we are squelching some of our personal power by eating meat or smoking or drinking, one can only imagine what genius our Joan is repressing/ dampering down (woodstove heaven in my house) in order to stay "in her body." I know this will sound like gobbledygook to some, while to others it is simple and understood. To me, it makes perfect sense. > For some reason, I think Joni would be offended if her statue did not > include a cigarette. Maybe I'm wrong, but she does want it to be a > true likeness, and I think that means "warts" and all. What if Joni gives up smoking one day? I would not be surprised if there is a part of her that wishes she could, regardless of any belligerence she expresses at the idea of being preached at, or if one day she simply said "I've smoked enough, I'm done with it." People do. Would she then be glad to see her statue immortalizing her as a smoker? Maybe she'd prefer the focus be on the soul-stirring music she has created, which will be sung for centuries after she's gone. That is what she is famous, admired, and loved for in the first place, outside of her personal relationships. Not her smoking, not her voice, not her beauty, not her brilliant conversation. Her music. It's true a statue of Jimi Hendrix probably would show him with a guitar, not a needle stuck in his arm to remind future generations of his addiction. Kate du Nord ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:22:43 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Spin Magazine From their Albums of the Year list: #15 Tori Amos - Scarlett's Walk. Not since Joni Mitchell drew a map of Canada on a cocktail napkin has a singer/songwriter found this much poetry in geography. Eagle Eye Jerry ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #378 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)