From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #375 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, December 5 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 375 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: Washington Post review [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni [dsk ] Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni [colin ] "Rippin Off" [Cactustree78@aol.com] new Joni DVD = Diltz? ["Laurent Olszer" ] Jonifest 2003 deposits [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] Re: Covers #35, Santa's got a brand new bag! [Jerry Notaro ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #542 [Kardinel@aol.com] When It Rains, It Pours Joni (a tape of Amelias) ["Mary E. Pitassi" ] Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni ["Lori Fye" ] Re: new Joni DVD = Diltz? ["kakki" ] Edgar Allen Poe? [Deb Messling ] Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni [colin ] Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni [colin ] Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni ["chuty001" ] Re: Edgar Allen Poe? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni [dsk ] Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni ["Lori Fye" ] RE: new Joni DVD = Diltz? ["Kate Bennett" ] Joni Fest! [Little Bird ] Re: Joni Fest! [Susan Guzzi ] Insensitivity vs. hypersensitivity [Little Bird ] DF's Joni drawing - It's back!! ["Lori Fye" ] Re: DF's Joni drawing - It's back!! ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Covers #35, Santa's got a brand new bag! [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Joni & Dylan, why didn't it ever happen?? ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: Joni & Dylan, why didn't it ever happen?? ["Adam Mulvey" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 02:09:42 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself Bryan, it's because Joni Mitchell was interviewed by a Saskatoon newspaper recently and said, if there was a statue of her in Saskatoon, she'd want it to be a park bench with a figure of her sitting at one end of it. Then she could come to Saskatoon, sit next to her statue, and could honestly say she was "beside herself" over it. And so the Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself Fund was born. :-) Sarah Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:44:57 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #542 - Beside Herself Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself A fabulous idea. But can someone explain to me please why the proposed statue has that name? I know what the expression "beside oneself" means, I just don't get it as a name for sculpture. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 03:38:17 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Washington Post review Richard Harrington writes: >several [songs] are >clumsily re-imagined. Case in point: "Woodstock" is slowed to a funereal >pace that subverts the original meaning and spirit of the song, replacing >fragile celebration with weary melancholy. Mitchell seems to distance >herself from the past, now singing, "I know we're stardust / I think we're >golden." Thirty-three years ago, she was more confident in her generation's >humanity. But isn't that exactly the point being made in the new version? The fragile celebration of our youth that was embodied by Woodstock *has* been replaced by the weary melancholy of life in these days of "high late capitalism" as James Taylor calls them. Seems to me like she nails it. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 04:23:16 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: > > Joni said she'd like to see a park bench with a figure of herself at one > end of it, so that people can sit next to her. I think a statue of Joni in her home town is a great idea! I imagine a realistic life-size figure of Joni playing guitar and sitting in the middle of a spiral shaped bench that wraps around her a few times, so that people can sit not only next to the Joni-figure but all around her, as though she's performing/telling a story. A hundred years from now that will show not only what she looked like but how her music flowed out and became an intimate part of people's lives, literally encircling some of us. Joni and her music are very straightforward so I think a life-like representation of her makes sense. I picture, and will sketch out ASAP: 1. Bronze figure facing west (so from midday to night the sun will shine directly on the figure's face -- seems fitting considering what a nightowl Joni is) or maybe southwest, facing LA 2. NO cigarette (Joni's addiction and romance with cigarettes isn't something to immortalize IMO) 3. Spiral bench of golden marble, maybe, with her name and chorus to Circle Game etched on the inside of spiral, starting from figure and working outward so it can be read as people walk out of the circle, and maybe music itself etched into top of bench (Circle Game because children are being taught that and it's sure to be sung 100 years from now; Hejira might work, too, not because it will ever be taught as a "folk" song but just because I like some of the lyrics so much.) 4. All in a big field of grass so it can be seen from afar, with a row of pine trees in a half circle in the back as shelter and contrast. Les, what's the big rush with getting sketches done? And, in your earlier message, were you referring to a poster design or sketches for the statue itself? Or a sketch that someone else would use on a poster? In general, what are the plans and projected timing for this project? It seems like it would take a long time to raise the thousands needed for an outdoor statue. In addition to the address to email sketches to, is there an address for general info? Or, not yet? Debra Shea NPIMH: we all come and go unknown each so deep and superficial... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 10:45:58 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni >2. NO cigarette (Joni's addiction and romance with cigarettes isn't >something to immortalize IMO) > I undertsand your point. however, i feel it would be dishonest to leaveit out. we cannot 'clean'people up and keep our integrity. like when they make films about real people and elave the bits 'they' don't like out. not good. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 06:09:11 -0500 From: Cactustree78@aol.com Subject: "Rippin Off" Maybe that was a lil harsh didnt mean to offend I got a lil carried away for the record Joni didnt mention anything about her songs bein ripped off in the article..That was just my opinion...Sorry if i wasnt clear enough..I still think her BSN is cheesy...But my friend made me listen to Michael From Mountains and I like that so im just a wind bag dont mind me and excuse my negativity...***kevin**** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:53:31 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: new Joni DVD = Diltz? Hello and thanks for the replies regarding this Under the Covers DVD. I'm still a little confused: 1) you refer to a CD-rom or CD-R and the item I saw at the store is a DVD. 2) Kate said she saw it over a year ago, yet the jacket says it's a 2002 release. Also the price sticker at the store indicates this is a relatively recent item. So are you sure we're talking about the same DILTZ video? Thanks again. PS: Yes Leslie Olsher in Bob's new covers CD is my cousin, yet I agree with Bob's comments about her voice. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 07:34:06 EST From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Jonifest 2003 deposits Hi all you potential 2003 Festers! Surprisingly, I have very few deposits in so far for Jonifest 2003. I need to send in a rather sizeable deposit to Full Moon to hold our date for next year. If you are planning on attending, it would be great if I could have your $100.00 deposit in soon. (I'm hoping there are more than 5 people planning on attending next year!) :-) Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:32:07 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Covers #35, Santa's got a brand new bag! SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > Caterina Valente - ..interesting bit o' Joni cover trivia, Caterina's son is none other than Eric van Aro, the singer of track # 9. Speaking of trivia, her brother is Sergio Franchi. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:30:10 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Jack Neilson News how about "our llivingroom", Woodbury, NJ? magsnbrei ;-) Michael Paz wrote:Jack Neilson 3Here I Go Again2 CD Release Party Tipitina9s 501 Napoleon Av December 12, 2002 9pm Featuring: David Torkanowsky Beth Patterson Dave Easley Jay Dronge9 Christina Friis-Nielsen Michael Paz With Special Guests from Houma, Louisiana by way of Birmingham, Alabama Singer-Songwriter (and major pain in my ass) Gisele Hawkins The CD will begin shipping on Tuesday December 10. It will be check or money order only till we can get it set up with CD Baby etc. Advance orders can be ordered directly through me. CD's are $15 U.S> + $3 shipping and handling. Checks should be made out to Jack Neilson. Orders can be sent to: Michael Paz 17 Waverly Place Destrehan, La. 70047 They will ship starting Tuesday. Thanks to everyone for their support on this project over the last 16 months. Jack is eager to start touring so if anyone has any ideas about places in your area we are gonna start booking real soon. We got a cold call for a booking today to open for Big Daddy O on Jan 3 at Tipitina's. Should be interesting. I know of a few of you who will be here for the CD release, but the more the merrier. Peace Michael Paz Web site is planned and under construction. You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:33:27 EST From: Kardinel@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #542 There is nothing in Iraq but oil. N. Korea has weapons but no oil so we are not interested.It's like we are willing to sacrifice our young people so we can drive SUV's. The whole thing is casting a darkness on the world. Maureen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:35:41 -0600 From: "Mary E. Pitassi" Subject: When It Rains, It Pours Joni (a tape of Amelias) Bryan Symes wrote: "Amelia my daughters birth date is 1-1-1999 the tradition of starting out each > (FunFriday a grand day of visiting Book Stores Milk Shakes for lunch Toy > Stores Disney movies Etc.Etc.Etc.) is listening to my Collection of 4 > Amelia's in the Trucks cassette player First up is Amelia sung by Harlap, > then Joni off of Hejira, Amelia sung by Victor Johnson and the Joni off S&L, > today she asked me to play Yael's version twice and told me its her favorite." Wow, Yael--you beat out Joni herself! And TWICE! ;-) Seriously: if the version of "Amelia" Byan's daughter liked so much was the one Yael sang at Jonifest, 2002, then take it from one who was there: it was, indeed, truly superlative. Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:51:37 -0600 From: "Mary E. Pitassi" Subject: Judy/"Both Sides Now" Bryan wrote: "Having just read the W interview in full...please let's clarify: Joni didn't swipe at Judy, she swiped at Judy's too-sweet, sing-songy arrangement of BSN. As for "ripping off"...please! Joni's career was in large part launched by the covers that Judy and others did. That's certainly not a rip-off." Me now: I agree with Bryan that Joni's career got a huge jump-start thanks to the covers done by Judy Collins, Tom Rush, the late Dave Van Ronk and others in the mid-sixties. Judy, as the most commercially successful of this initial group, perhaps deserves the most heartfelt "thank you" from Joni fans. However, I remain discouraged that Judy's version of "BSN" is the only one that many people are familiar with, and the one many others regard as the "original" to judge other covers by. My own mother dutifully listened to a tape of a mature Joni singing "BSN" a couple of years back, but basically thought that Joni was mutilating her own song, because all my mother knew was Judy's sing-songy version. SIGH. But she did listen. Mary. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:58:18 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni Debra, I like your ideas a lot, especially the spiral staircase/bench. And I agree about the smoking. it is her trademark but that's not a good thing IMO either. I'm going to pass your email to a couple of the artists who've written in, if that's okay with you. The general address for information is BesideHerself@shaw.ca. We envisage having to raise at least $50,000. We have no time plan at present as it's too early in the project to say how it'll take us to raise that. The rush for a sketch is that we're looking for an artist to design a campaign poster for us, and we'd like to include a sketch of the statue, or at least an early idea of it, so people can see what they're donating to. Best, Sarah At 4:23 AM -0500 12/05/2002, dsk wrote: >sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: >> >> Joni said she'd like to see a park bench with a figure of herself at one >> end of it, so that people can sit next to her. > >I think a statue of Joni in her home town is a great idea! > >I imagine a realistic life-size figure of Joni playing guitar and >sitting in the middle of a spiral shaped bench that wraps around her a >few times, so that people can sit not only next to the Joni-figure but >all around her, as though she's performing/telling a story. A hundred >years from now that will show not only what she looked like but how her >music flowed out and became an intimate part of people's lives, >literally encircling some of us. > >Joni and her music are very straightforward so I think a life-like >representation of her makes sense. I picture, and will sketch out ASAP: >1. Bronze figure facing west (so from midday to night the sun will shine >directly on the figure's face -- seems fitting considering what a >nightowl Joni is) or maybe southwest, facing LA >2. NO cigarette (Joni's addiction and romance with cigarettes isn't >something to immortalize IMO) >3. Spiral bench of golden marble, maybe, with her name and chorus to >Circle Game etched on the inside of spiral, starting from figure and >working outward so it can be read as people walk out of the circle, and >maybe music itself etched into top of bench (Circle Game because >children are being taught that and it's sure to be sung 100 years from >now; Hejira might work, too, not because it will ever be taught as a >"folk" song but just because I like some of the lyrics so much.) >4. All in a big field of grass so it can be seen from afar, with a row >of pine trees in a half circle in the back as shelter and contrast. > >Les, what's the big rush with getting sketches done? And, in your >earlier message, were you referring to a poster design or sketches for >the statue itself? Or a sketch that someone else would use on a poster? > >In general, what are the plans and projected timing for this project? It >seems like it would take a long time to raise the thousands needed for >an outdoor statue. In addition to the address to email sketches to, is >there an address for general info? Or, not yet? > >Debra Shea > >NPIMH: we all come and go unknown each so deep and superficial... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 07:39:13 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni Debra wrote: > 2. NO cigarette (Joni's addiction and romance with cigarettes isn't > something to immortalize IMO) Colin replied: > I undertsand your point. however, i feel it would be dishonest to > leaveit out. we cannot 'clean'people up and keep our integrity. like > when they make films about real people and elave the bits 'they > don't like out. not good. And I -- a non-smoker who regularly rants at my militant-smoker family and who teaches my nieces (ages 3 and 1) that cigarettes are "YECK" -- agree with Colin. Joni is Joni, cigarette and all. I also agree with Les that it's tacky, but Joni without a cig would be less authentic. I do foresee the thing being broken off, though. Perhaps it should reside in an ashtray, with only the filter protruding slightly. I also like Kate's idea of being able to put a lit cigarette in Joni's hand. Then it's simply an option and not a permanent endorsement of smoking. Debra, I LOVE all the rest of your ideas!! Especially the facing west/southwest concept. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:57:41 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni > And I -- a non-smoker who regularly rants at my militant-smoker family > and who teaches my nieces (ages 3 and 1) that cigarettes are "YECK" -- > agree with Colin. Joni is Joni, cigarette and all. I also agree with > Les that it's tacky, but Joni without a cig would be less authentic. > But does that mean that a statue of Jerry Garcia should have him shooting up heroin? Both habits are equally "YECK" IMO except one is accepted and driven by society and one is underground and illegal. It reminds me of the Simpsons episode in which Marge Simpson is asked to paint a portrait of Mr.Burns. His despicable behaviour really turns her off on the whole idea until she sees the fragile, vulnerable Mr. Burns in the bathroom accidentally but then finds her inspiration to paint him as she has seen him, underneath his hard and cruel desmeanor. Perhaps this statue could be approached the same way, and attempt to capture the Joni inside. I have no problem imagining Joni without a cigarette and wouldn't even ever think about the fact that she smokes except that it is brought up here so often. Actually, I can't think of anyone I know that I envision with a cigarette every time I think about them. I have never ever smoked a cigarette myself and so I have an easy time imagining a world without them. Victor in Asheville NP: Nick Drake "The Way to Blue" - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 10:57:53 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: a white-assed deer In a message dated 12/5/2002 12:22:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, ewwt@juno.com writes: > I picture Wally Breeze weeping for joy in heaven listening > to this one. Hey, maybe that's HIM playing the harp in "Refuge"! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:11:57 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni > But does that mean that a statue of Jerry Garcia should have him > shooting up heroin? Good point, Victor. > I have no problem imagining Joni without a cigarette and wouldn't > even ever think about the fact that she smokes except that it is > brought up here so often. I can imagine Joni without a cig, but I have to think back to the LOTC years to do that, even though I know she smoked back then. When I saw her at "A Day In The Garden" in Bethel, though, she smoked on stage almost non-stop. And that's the image that sticks in my mind. > Actually, I can't think of anyone I know that I envision with a > cigarette every time I think about them. Oh, I can think of people. Several friends and relatives. In fact, for some reason people who barely know me often ask me if I want a cigarette, or if I've just stopped smoking. (Yes, when I was 18.) Apparently there's something about me that suggests to them that I should be puffing away ... Lori (now 44) ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 11:20:25 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni Sorry. I'm not with you on this one. After she goes, should we edit all references to smoking from her lyrics? Art is art. It is not a recommendation of behavior or lifestyle. Since so many of Joni's images of herself refer to her smoking, to outright reject that image is too PC for me. Thank God for the American Library Association, or our libraries would look like a Golden Book outlet. Jerry np: Joni - Empty Try Another Lori Fye wrote: > > But does that mean that a statue of Jerry Garcia should have him > > shooting up heroin? > > Good point, Victor. > > > I have no problem imagining Joni without a cigarette and wouldn't > > even ever think about the fact that she smokes except that it is > > brought up here so often. > > I can imagine Joni without a cig, but I have to think back to the LOTC > years to do that, even though I know she smoked back then. When I saw > her at "A Day In The Garden" in Bethel, though, she smoked on stage > almost non-stop. And that's the image that sticks in my mind. > > > Actually, I can't think of anyone I know that I envision with a > > cigarette every time I think about them. > > Oh, I can think of people. Several friends and relatives. In fact, > for some reason people who barely know me often ask me if I want a > cigarette, or if I've just stopped smoking. (Yes, when I was 18.) > Apparently there's something about me that suggests to them that I > should be puffing away ... > > Lori > (now 44) > > ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:37:16 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni Since so many of Joni's images > of herself refer to her smoking, to outright reject that image is too PC > for me. Thank God for the American Library Association, or our libraries > would look like a Golden Book outlet. Actually, I envisioned a statue of her skating away on a river though that is only one image of several gazzillion possibilities. Or how about a naked statue looking out onto the ocean? Now that would be kind of silly. But in the same way, I see her smoking as just one facet of her personality, despite all her references, and it wasn't even clear to me that she was such a constant smoker until recently in the past few years. In my mind its not an issue of PC (if it was just that I would say go right ahead) but just that I have several different images of Joni, from the 18 year old just starting out to the woman she is now and I simply don't see her smoking habit as an inherent part of herself, the being that is Joni Mitchell. Victor in Asheville - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 11:43:22 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni In that Joni herself has painted so many pictures that are on and contained in her albums that show her with a cigarette, I think a cigarette is a required part of the statute. She herself has made such a statement about it - - as opposed to Jerry Garica, who never put himself on an album cover or had inside album art showing him with a needle. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:45:06 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni >>> Or how about a naked statue looking out onto the ocean?>>> Considering the ocean is about 3000 to 4000 kilometers away in any direction from Saskatoon, maybe her "prop" should be binocculars? :-) I like the idea of a cigarette. It's just so Joni. - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:52:39 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni > I simply don't see her smoking habit as an inherent part of > herself, the being that is Joni Mitchell. I think JONI sees smoking as an inherent part of her being, though. Afterall, this is a woman who manages to break the usual "no smoking" rules at various venues (ex., the TNT Tribute). And although I can't locate it in the JMDL Library (I'm not sure it's there), wasn't there an interview in which Joni mentioned that an Indian or shaman told her that her smoking keeps her "grounded" or keeps her "from disappearing"? (Does anyone else remember this?) For some reason, I think Joni would be offended if her statue did not include a cigarette. Maybe I'm wrong, but she does want it to be a true likeness, and I think that means "warts" and all. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:22:06 EST From: MEedits@aol.com Subject: Mermaid Cafe postings I am a writer researching life in the Matala caves during the late 1960s and early 70s and would like to contact Yvonne Whiteman, Richard Titlebaum and Jack Bechtold for more information on their experiences. I hope to hear from you! Many thanks for your helpful postings, Melissa Eskridge Slaymaker -- MEedits@aol.com Knoxville, TN ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 12:22:21 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Joni Covers real good for free! As per usual, I've got a couple copies of Covers #35 to give away to some lucky JMDL'er! Since we have so many newbies, I'll explain how this works: Send me an e-mail with a guess of a song on one of Joni's albums, be sure and tell me the song AND album title, especially now with T'log there are several songs that appear on more than one! Example: "All I Want - Blue" If you need some ideas: http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/index.cfm Whoever comes closest to the one that I've already picked will win a copy of "Covers, #35 AND a copy of The Steve Klink Trio's "Places to Come From, Places to Go" Jazz tribute to Joni released this year. I'll also give a 2nd place Covers 35 CD away, so your chances to be a winner are doubled!! Remember too...just send your mail to me & not the list. I'll stop the contest Sunday night at midnight, and announce winners on Monday morning. Might make a great stocking stuffer or a gift to that someone who has everything...they DON'T have one of these! :~) Bob NP: Shawn, "Everybody Wants To Paint My Picture" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:14:13 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Will Ashara please stand? I think for some of the new people on the list (myself included) it would be great to read a synopsis of what a JoniFest is all about, having never been to one myself. It sounds fabulous, but I'd love to know more, and I'm sure others would too. Where is it going to be in 2003? What happens at JoniFest? Is there singing? Dancing? Eating? Inquiring Joni fans want to know! - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:18:16 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: new Joni DVD = Diltz? Laurent, I can see that it would sound confusing. There have been three different incarnations of "Under The Covers" - the first was the CD-r which came out in around '96. Based on interest in the CD-r, Diltz and Gary Burden were encouraged to create an Under The Covers kind of rock documentary for PBS. That was later available as a video. The DVD is the next generation of UTC, so to speak ;-) Kakki > Hello and thanks for the replies regarding this Under the Covers DVD. I'm > still a little confused: 1) you refer to a CD-rom or CD-R and the item I saw > at the store is a DVD. 2) Kate said she saw it over a year ago, yet the jacket > says it's a 2002 release. Also the price sticker at the store indicates this > is a relatively recent item. > So are you sure we're talking about the same DILTZ video? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 13:31:00 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Edgar Allen Poe? According to the W article: First off, she accuses Reprise executives of ignorance. Since they have never heard of, for example, Edgar Allan Poe or Job, they don't get the references in her lyrics. "And they think if they don't, nobody else will," she says. Does anybody recall any references to the works of Poe in Joni's lyrics? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/02 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 18:32:32 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni >Debra, I LOVE all the rest of your ideas!! Especially the facing >west/southwest concept. > me too. I thought as I read it that it was a very creative idea. > >Lori > >~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 18:34:05 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni Victor Johnson wrote: >>And I -- a non-smoker who regularly rants at my militant-smoker family >>and who teaches my nieces (ages 3 and 1) that cigarettes are "YECK" -- >>agree with Colin. Joni is Joni, cigarette and all. I also agree with >>Les that it's tacky, but Joni without a cig would be less authentic. >> >> >> > >But does that mean that a statue of Jerry Garcia should have him shooting >up heroin? > i see your point. however, i don't think it is quite the same thing. one didn't see him in public, all the time, with a needle in his hand. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:10:03 -0500 From: "chuty001" Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni I don't care for Les pauls she should have a Martin. I don't care for Blondes I like brunettes statue should be a brunette. I don't like facial hair Garcia's statue should be shaved with or without a needle. This is how crazy this is sounding to me. I am new around here and read along for awhile before posting. I felt it was an interesting group of people that seemed sensitive and friendly. So far this week I'm beginning to think I was wrong. Now this is not meant to offend anybody so please try to not take it the wrong way but here is a recap of what stands out in my mind. A few posts cracking jokes about a fag in a statues hand which didn't seem to bother anybody(made me uncomfortable) an insensitive review of the audience at an Armatrading concert (once again trying to be funny I don't think he meant any harm. But yes Insensitive and in very poor taste. And requiring several apologies I would hope) It seems ok to question if all Canadians are plain and unambitious or only the ones who are kind enough to share there music with the rest of the world.(all tongue in cheek of course and I don't think any harm was meant) Now It's smokers. I've been told by many I have a good sense of humour but found non of the above funny. I see no humour in jokes at other peoples expense. Especially mine(I do fit into a few of the above categories) I've kept my mouth as closed as I am capable of to this point because I've conversed with some great people from here. But after reading Susan's post and how she's been left feeling I had to say something. Should I have read farther back into the archives. Is it normally this Insensitive around here. DF - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Fye" To: "Victor Johnson" ; Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:11 AM Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni > > But does that mean that a statue of Jerry Garcia should have him > > shooting up heroin? > > Good point, Victor. > > > I have no problem imagining Joni without a cigarette and wouldn't > > even ever think about the fact that she smokes except that it is > > brought up here so often. > > I can imagine Joni without a cig, but I have to think back to the LOTC > years to do that, even though I know she smoked back then. When I saw > her at "A Day In The Garden" in Bethel, though, she smoked on stage > almost non-stop. And that's the image that sticks in my mind. > > > Actually, I can't think of anyone I know that I envision with a > > cigarette every time I think about them. > > Oh, I can think of people. Several friends and relatives. In fact, > for some reason people who barely know me often ask me if I want a > cigarette, or if I've just stopped smoking. (Yes, when I was 18.) > Apparently there's something about me that suggests to them that I > should be puffing away ... > > Lori > (now 44) > > ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 14:13:56 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Edgar Allen Poe? In a message dated 12/5/2002 1:31:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, messling@enter.net writes: > Does anybody recall any references to the works of Poe in > Joni's lyrics? I thought that was odd as well, Deb...I don't recall any unless you want to stretch "Black Crow" and compare it with "The Raven"... Bob NP: Sam Cooke, "Chain Gang", live at the Harlem Square Club ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 14:18:23 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni Lori Fye wrote: > > For some reason, I think Joni would be offended if her statue did not > include a cigarette. Maybe I'm wrong, but she does want it to be a > true likeness, and I think that means "warts" and all. I'm thinking of people seeing this statue 100 years or so from now, long after we're all gone. Does Joni really want to be remembered primarily as a smoker? Or as the best singer/songwriter/poet/storyteller of her time? I also imagine it a representation of her as a long-haired 30-year old, which some people, including Joni, may not agree with (what, no jazz? no respect for maturity?). And seated and playing a guitar! So how can she smoke then? There are many pictures of her with a guitar and no cigarette, and that music-making image is what comes to mind first when I think about her. I'd like to see what Joni would come up with. It probably would include a cigarette. It's so odd that she's stuck in a "romantic" image from the 1940s when she seems so forward thinking in other ways. All this goes to show that this will be a challenging project for all concerned, and I'm impressed that anyone would have the gumption to take it on. (You've been truly inspired by the mysterious Joni-fanhood bug, Sarah!) Considering the difficulty with getting a tribute cd released because of Joni's involvement, maybe Joni should not be involved with this tribute to her. (Would that be possible?) Debra Shea, who smoked like a dragon for 15 years, with a habit so demanding I'd go between subway cars to light up if there was a train delay. I know all about cigarettes' hooks and thank god am not ruled by them today! I also know how hard an addiction it is to break, so while I can understand all that and generally try to go easy on smokers, memorializing and glorifying that habit doesn't seem like a good idea no matter what Joni might think. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 11:37:31 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni > It's so odd that she's stuck in a "romantic" image from the > 1940s when she seems so forward thinking in other ways. Life being the "circle game" it tends to be, as people age they often come back around to nostalgic memories of their childhood. Joni was born in 1943. The 40s were all about "romantic" images, especially in the movies, in which many (if not most) of the actors smoked. So perhaps it's not so odd. Debra, I do see your point about the statue being viewed 100 years from now. (Of course, pessimist that I am, I don't expect anything to be here then.) Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 11:41:00 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: a white-assed deer At 12:22 AM 12/5/2002 -0500, Eric W Taylor wrote: >It's a woman with black hair joyously feeding a white-assed deer. It looks >like Joni wearing a wig! I believe it was Kakki who pointed out that the woman is the late Anna Shorter, wife of Joni collaborator Wayne Shorter. Mrs. Shorter perished aboard TWA Flight 800. The painting depicts a scene from Japan where Joni and her band were about to perform. Before the concert some of the group went out into the countryside and found a small herd of very friendly deer. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:49:54 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: new Joni DVD = Diltz? the beginning of my dvd looks like a screen you'd have on your computer because it says something like enter here...i wonder if it has some of the little exploring places that you mentioned kakki, like the cdr...hmmm does anyone else have this on dvd? ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:56:03 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Joni Fest! Well, I've been to jonimitchell.info and had a peek at the Joni Fest section. It DOES look like fun! I may not make it this year because I'm poor, but I'd love to attend at some point! It's such a great idea! I had a similar experience when a whole group of us from the Eurythmics discussion list got together in New York City in 1999 to attend their concert at Madison Square Garden. It was four days of glorious fun. And you'd be surprised how much people have in common based on their shared admiration for a musical artist! - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:10:51 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Joni Fest! Hey Andrew, Well for those of us who have been to a Jonifest - WE absolutely would not be surprised! Maybe the first time people are but after that it's HOME - baby! There are ways to get there Andrew! I am always poor and will be heading there for the 3rd time in August! I can't imagine NOT going! And this year we should get to see Jimmy's syncronized swimming extravaganza - which should not be missed - from what I hear. But I think Ethel will be vacationing elesewhere this year - like The Betty Ford Clinic! Peace, Susan - --- Little Bird wrote: > Well, I've been to jonimitchell.info and had a peek at the Joni Fest section. It DOES look like > fun! I may not make it this year because I'm poor, but I'd love to attend at some point! It's > such a great idea! > > I had a similar experience when a whole group of us from the Eurythmics discussion list got > together in New York City in 1999 to attend their concert at Madison Square Garden. It was four > days of glorious fun. And you'd be surprised how much people have in common based on their > shared admiration for a musical artist! > > -Andrew > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:14:29 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Insensitivity vs. hypersensitivity DF wrote: "Should I have read farther back into the archives. Is it normally this Insensitive around here." I think the matter may be more about hyper-sensitivity rather than insensitivity. With a list this size, people are going to occasionally step on one another's toes since we are here to DISCUSS, meaning that opinions of all shapes, sizes and colours are flying back and forth. Not all of them will meet with everyone's approval, nor should they. Life's way too short to be PC and homogenous, not meaning to offend people who feel life should be that way! Ahem... We're also dealing with a very grey form of communication. Writing conversationally via e-mail often causes misunderstandings and hurt feelings because tone of voice, facial expression and body language are absent. While I haven't agreed with everything that everyone posts, I think there is a healthy respect for everyone on board. If something offends you, take it with a dose of salt and move on - it's not life or death and it isn't even a matter of personal attack, just differences of opinion about all kinds of topics. Remember this is just a group of people who like the same artist, not a workshop on how to offend people or how best to please every individual. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and while tact and foresight are hopefully components of each post, it is not anyone's duty to please anyone else with their thoughts. In fact, it's often more exciting to incite debate and discussion about controversial matters, like smoking versus non smoking, ambitious or unambitious Canadian voices, fags, homosexuals and cigarettes. Just don't take it so personally. And if someone does get personal with you, take it off list and give them hell. "Throwin' the lightness on these things, laughin' it all the way," - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:20:08 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Joni Fest, here I come! Well, thanks to EVERYONE who has written to me and to the list about JoniFest! I am certainly intrigued and will try very hard to make it in August! I do have some Air Miles saved up... I'd love to have a JoniFest somewhere in Canada at some point - Ottawa (where I'm from) is a great town for it. Or Toronto - so much to do and see! Or even Saskatoon! I'm excited. - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 12:28:26 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: DF's Joni drawing - It's back!! Hey Paz (and everyone else who didn't see it before), here's your chance! http://www.geocities.com/thatstrangesite/Drawing-Joni1-1.jpg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 12:33:45 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: DF's Joni drawing - It's back!! Getting lots of hits, isn't it? If you can't access it directly, try this: http://www.geocities.com/thatstrangesite/Images.html then scroll down to "Joni Drawing". ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:34:35 -0800 From: frasere@intergate.ca Subject: Re: Joni Fest, here I come! Quoting Little Bird : > "I'd love to have a JoniFest somewhere in Canada at some point - Ottawa (where > I'm from) is a great town for it. Or Toronto - so much to do and see! Or even > Saskatoon!" Unfortunately I missed the Saskatoon gathering for the opening of Joni's show. But we certainly had fun @ the Harbourfront tribute in Toronto last October! And two winters ago a mini gathering in Vancouver with some SoCal and Argentine members. I think a good time is had by all whenever jmdlers get together. Best Stephen in Vancouver Nominating Vancouver as host city for Jonifest 2004- perhaps somewhere up the Sunshine Coast ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 20:49:57 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni > A few posts cracking jokes about a fag in a statues hand which didn't seem >to bother anybody(made me uncomfortable) > why would it? I think all who cracked jokes about fags in hands were 'fags', including me who made the intial comment. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:55:32 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Covers #35, Santa's got a brand new bag! Thanks so much for another great covers CD. Like you said, it's definitely a mixed bag. I love Jo Collin's "Carey", Leora Cashe's "I Don't Know Where I Stand", the acoustic guitar medley by Mimi Fox, and Laura Canoura's "La Ultima Vez Que Vi A Richard". They're all great covers. Now I thought Jonathon King was trying to mix "Free Man in Paris" with "Safety Dance" lol As for Brad Swanson, that's the absolutely the worse cover of BSN. It didn't sound like a roller rink version. It was more like the little old man that sits at a casio playing at the mall music store :~) I love it!!!! Anyway, thanks again for all your hard work.......and thanks to Whirly Pearl, David Lahm, and Bob's little sis Chris. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 15:55:47 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: Joni & Dylan, why didn't it ever happen?? I recall Joni saying once that Bob Dylan and her mother shared the same birthday, well you know how much skuffles joni has said that she and her mother has gotten into and that that day is the "Day of the MOralists" so, maybe romantic flames never arised because of that? BLair > > > I was just wondering everyone's opinion about why Joni and Bob Dylan >never > > became romantically involved???? They were obviously knew alot of the >same > > people and traveled to the same places......why no court and spark??? > >A Gemini and a Scorpio? They would kill each other! _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:36:33 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Joni's smoking Can you please get off the smoking thing? Joni's a smoker. End of story. It's nobody's business if she is "immortalized" as a smoker. Get over it. The woman is a bloody genius, for god's sake. Andrea in NY ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:53:21 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: Joni's smoking > Can you please get off the smoking thing? Joni's a smoker. End of story. > It's nobody's business if she is "immortalized" as a smoker. Actually, it is everyone's business as there was a specific request for input regarding the development of the statue, which is still well in the planning stages. > The woman is a bloody genius, for god's sake. You're suggesting a statue of Joni kneeling down, praying to God, with blood all over her? Yes, that's a much better idea. The gall of these people, suggesting that she hold a cigarette in her hand...:~} Victor in Asheville - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:09:14 -0000 From: "Adam Mulvey" Subject: Re: Joni & Dylan, why didn't it ever happen?? > I was just wondering everyone's opinion about why Joni and Bob Dylan > >never > became romantically involved???? They were obviously knew alot of the > >same > people and traveled to the same places......why no court and spark??? Court and Spark might just have been part of the problem. There's an interesting story in one of Dylan's biographies - (possibly Clinton Heylin's 'Behind the Shades', but I may have just made that up to make me look better) - about an evening the two of them spent together with their respective entourages in January 1974, the month both Court and Spark and Planet Waves were released. Dylan's hangers-on set the Master's new LP on the turntable; and, naturally, proceeded to praise it as a work of genius. Unfazed, Joni then put the needle down on her own latest effort.... to widespread indifference, most notably from Dylan himself. Of course, the story may be apocryphal, but the more you read about Dylan, the more sense you get of a mammoth ego that needs constant attention. For a strong-willed woman with an ego of her own, and a talent to match, it can't have been appealing (just look at what happened to Joan Baez - the Rolling Thunder revue was damaging for her in a way that it wasn't for Joni, because she and the Bobmeister had never been involved). Plus, having always been stuck with that patronising 'female Dylan' tag, it would have done Joni's credibility no favours; and it could have only ended in murder, as I think she herself has said. But you get the impression that each of them still has a wary respect for the other. (Even though Court and Spark is to Planet Waves what Blonde on Blonde is to Sunshine Superman.) You tend to hear it said that most people who have Blue in their record collection will have a corresponding Blood on the Tracks somewhere. Are most Joni Mitchell fans at least vague Bob Dylan fans too? Adam (Hello, I'm a fresher here, don't beat me up.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 17:20:58 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni & Dylan, why didn't it ever happen?? In a message dated 12/5/2002 5:09:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, adammulvey@blueyonder.co.uk writes: > Are > most Joni Mitchell fans at least vague Bob Dylan fans too? > > Adam (Hello, I'm a fresher here, don't beat me up.) Most...probably. Certainly not all. I've grown to a much deeper appreciation of his body of work. And he put on a helluva show here in Greenville SC earlier this year! Welcome Adam...hope nobody beats you up. :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 17:22:32 -0500 From: vince Subject: the JMDL community chuty001 wrote: >A few posts cracking jokes about a fag in a statues hand which didn't seem >to bother anybody(made me uncomfortable) > given the significant members of this forum who are gay/lesbian, I think any comments about fags was responded to in a joking manner - I think it was Colin who indicated everyone who did comment on that was gay and he's right, to my recollection. >an insensitive review of the >audience at an Armatrading concert > I saw that whole conversation as a conversation in which people got a chance to have their consciousness raised (as we used to say, anyone remember?). > It seems ok to question if all Canadians are plain and unambitious or only >the ones who are kind enough to share there music with the rest of the >world.(all tongue in cheek of course and I don't think any harm was meant) > And I was perhaps one of the people that you refer to here... > Now It's smokers. Should I have read farther back into the archives. Is it normally this >Insensitive around here. > > > > In my experience this is an incredibly sensitive group of people - this is just about the greatest group of people that I know, very caring. A lot of folks have a long, long history together and sometimes the little banter is based in the absolute trust and confidence and knowledge that we have of one another. This is a most caring group - something happens to someone, there is immense support, on list and off list. As one of the members who happens to be gay, I see some of the joking that goes on amongst us is that which we would only do either in totally gay company or only with others we could trust, whom we knew were good folks. That is the case here, certainly. We have so many Canadians on the list, I think again it is the banter of the affectionate people, not of the insensitive. An example: I am Italian and at a ball game I keep score with total dedication. One of my friends, another Italian, was at a game with me and asked if I wanted something to eat and then said something like, "No I guess you can't eat, you are talking and keeping score and your hands are busy enough as it is." Between Italians, that is funny. From someone else, who is not making the joke about "talking with one's hands" from inside the community, it would be offensive and insensitive. And I think that for many of us here we see each other as "inside the community" so we can make the jokes from within that those within the community can make. And when someone does say something that rubs someone else wrong, the issue usually gets raised, discussed, and people learn. We are not all sweetness and light of course. If you ever saw Bob Ethyl Murphy's post to Bob Muller that said, "after we shake your hand, we wash ours" you'd think how rude. But for those of us who know what good friends they are and their senses of humor, we read it in that context. And we have had some major flame wars here at times, and nasty things were said. But that is also part of life as a community, unfortunate as it is. Whatever happens here, it almost always has the benefit of at least being real. And some of the political threads, as strong as they may be in terms of convictions and attitudes, reflect a strong community that can differ and discuss those differences, we are strong enough to do it, and not a lot of communities are. Most people here would go to great lengths as to avoid being insensitive. And when some insensitive, it does get called out and discussed. That is one of the great strengths of this community. (And when someone really gets out of line, they suddenly lose their ability to post.) I guess I do not experience this community as insensitive. I may be so dull that I miss it. But when something is said that does perhaps offend, as with the concert post, look how fast the conversation happened on that - nothing was allowed to stand. And I think everyone who took part in that conversation got a little more knowledge about the others. On the flip side, anyone who attacks someone in here is going to find that we band together to protect others from hurt. But given it all - I do think this is an incredibly caring and sensitive people, unique in the cyber world, which is why it so often has become not just cyber but real, as in JoniFests, miniJoniFests, the get-togethers that happen when Joni tours, the get togethers that happen when people travel - When I really need to talk, when I really need friends, it is amazing how often I come here first for I know that I will what I need. And I know a lot of others do too. The more time one spends with this community, the more like family it becomes. Vince ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #375 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)