From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #369 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, December 1 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 369 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- PazFest, 2 CD set ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] When it rains it pours Joni [BRIANASYMES@aol.com] all you deface, all you defend... ["Mark Connely" ] Re: Drawing [colin ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #534 [Kardinel@aol.com] Re: When it rains it pours Joni [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] ABOUT ALL THE MUCH SPEAKING ["Suzanne MarcAurele" ] Re: Drawing [Mags N Brei ] MACK'S RESPONSE [] Re: calling mr. kratzman... ["chuty001" ] Re: Joni's 80s music ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Joni's 80s music [Little Bird ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #534 ["mack watson-bush" ] the eighties ["Kate Bennett" ] Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Goldie's "Carey" [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: The three great sycophants [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: The three great sycophants [Little Bird ] critisism of joni & sexism? ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: critisism of joni & sexism? [Little Bird ] A nice love song [Les Irvin ] Re: A nice love song [Little Bird ] Beside herself [Les Irvin ] Re: A nice love song ["chuty001" ] Re: the eighties ["Steve Polifka" ] Travelogue - Detroit Free Press Review [nyroman ] Re: Drawing [Mags N Brei ] Re: Goldie's "Carey" [Catherine McKay ] RE: the eighties ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: A nice love song [colin ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #534 [colin ] three rings in the sun [Little Bird ] Re: The three great sycophants ["kakki" ] Joni tribute album [Little Bird ] Re: three rings in the sun [hell ] Re: three rings in the sun [Little Bird ] travelogue due anticipation overload ! ["Paul Headon" ] Published Travelogue review [Little Bird ] A nice love song ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Beside herself [Murphycopy@aol.com] some thoughts on repeated listenings [Bruce Kimerer ] Re: three rings in the sun [Catherine McKay ] Travelogue packaging [Catherine McKay ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 03:53:26 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: PazFest, 2 CD set For heaven's sake, Michael, use the cliches, will ya? "Operators are standing by to take your call." Paz said, >>>>>>>>> Hi Catherine Thanks for your interest. I can do Credit Cards now. You can call me week days toll free at my office (800-725-7732) and I will gladly ship out your orders same day. Lots of people have taken advantage of the Christmas Special is which buy 4 get one free. They make beautiful presents for your friends and family or simply trying to assimilate some unsuspecting non-Joni person. Best to all. >>>>>>>>> Lama, who was skidding on 1/4 inch of snow tonight ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 05:08:58 EST From: BRIANASYMES@aol.com Subject: When it rains it pours Joni Hello Everyone I have Missed many past Digests because I started designing a new " Masseria del Vigna" on a 400 acre ranch, a sublime property overlooking the Columbia River. I just brought home Travelogue got it for $ 26.99 at a local independent versus 33.99 at Borders. But first I am making some French Roast at home and I turn on the TV and I see this guy in Orange suede outfit singing BSN sure enough it's a Lawrence Welk Show, the audience is full of Otis and Marlena's dressed in there best outfits bought at Sears. Then later on a Public Television show Judy Collins comes out and sings BSN again. Well onto Travelogue right away I spin Amelia by the time I got to Love I started to cry, the sublimity of the lyric's and simple score overwhelmed me. The Introduction Horn Theme I think is a reference to Alan Hovhaness and his composition " The Holy City" Opus 218 "1965". Now my Christmas wish : Amelia my daughters birth date is 1-1-1999 the tradition of starting out each (FunFriday a grand day of visiting Book Stores Milk Shakes for lunch Toy Stores Disney movies Etc.Etc.Etc.) is listening to my Collection of 4 Amelia's in the Trucks cassette player First up is Amelia sung by Harlap, then Joni off of Hejira, Amelia sung by Victor Johnson and the Joni off S&L, today she asked me to play Yael's version twice and told me its her favorite. I am asking the Kover King to make a Super Amelia CD for Amelia's Fourth Birthday on the first day of 2003. If any of the great artist's like Kate and Jeff, Gregg Cagno or David Lahm could add there version to this Amelia CD it would make Amelia very happy. Good night and sleep smiling with Joni's Dawntreader playing in your head. NP Joshua Redman Turnaround ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 02:19:09 -0800 From: "Mark Connely" Subject: all you deface, all you defend... Every stone thrown through glass, Every mean-streets-kick-ass, Every swan caught on the grass Will draw a borderline. - --"Borderline", Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 11:02:20 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Drawing That is a beautiful drawing. Thank youf or letting us see it. bw colin chuty001 wrote: > For anyone interested here's a link to one of my drawings let me know what >you think. I'll leave it up for the week end. Thanks DF > >http://www.geocities.com/thatstrangesite/Drawing-Joni1-1.jpg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 07:52:46 EST From: Kardinel@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #534 To me, the best work was in the 70's esp. Hissing and Hejira. I think a lot of men don't get Joni emotional lyrics. Now this is not a criticism but men and women do express themselves differently. I recalll reading in the early 80's when WTRF came out a couple of comments in the reviews. One stuck with me. It basically said thet were finally glad Joni was writing about such heavy things, she was now doing some light pop music. I didn't follow her much in the 80's and went back to her work again with NRH and the rest. My favorite of a ll her work is Hejira. I have listened to it thousands of times and I still love STAS. A quick comment about her voice. I've read so many lately. I think smoking, aging, and voice strain are the culprits. I think her voice around the years of LOTC and Blue was shrill at times. I remember even thinking that at the time. I loved her albums but thought some of the very high notes were harsh. I loved her voice when it was clearer and lower esp in the mid 70's. I still like her voice. It creates a certain mood and is very jazzy. I played a song on T"Log for my son and told him about the things said about her voice and he said after listening,"I don't know what is wrong with it." I think she has problems with her voice and wish she would quit smoking not for any reasons other than her health. I have also read reviews for 30 years and ,yes, critics have been harsh on her and then down the road praise the work. When she started out I think she was seen as a pretty, hippie girl and when the forceful, talented woman came through-well- I do think it's a male dominated field and women have never been accepted the same way. I mean look at Rolling Stone. I think you have to be a certain kind of person to get Joni. I have a brother about my age who is very ill and has dementia from his illness though he is still only middle aged. One day I was with him and he blurted out to me, "Do you stll listen to that depressed woman?" Maureen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 07:55:41 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: When it rains it pours Joni In a message dated 12/1/2002 5:10:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, BRIANASYMES@aol.com writes: > I am asking the Kover King to make a Super Amelia CD for Amelia's Fourth > Birthday on the first day of 2003. Hi Brian, I'll be happy to make you an "Amelia" special. If anyone wants to make a recording and send it to me, lemme know - an .mp3 is fine. I can hear in my head Gregg's version & Kate's, and they both sound real fine... I probably have dang near a full cd now as it is. Bob NP: Fred Hersch, "My Old Man" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 09:37:36 -0500 From: "Suzanne MarcAurele" Subject: ABOUT ALL THE MUCH SPEAKING I am mildly amused at the levels of insistence on rightness of position that appears in akll these missives. Fact is, we are all getting older and moving ever closer to our graves and I for one am still waiting for someone to concede how utterly senseless their lives were,are, and will go down as being.. who knows maybe then even great sex to center me in the here and now will be possible. Suzanne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 09:44:06 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Goldie's "Carey" --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > Muller writes: > > << I've been told I look like DeNiro, which I take > as a > compliment...:~) >> > > I think they were saying, de nada, Bob. De nada. > Nothing. > I beg to differ. Muller is much better looking than DeNiro. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 08:12:37 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Drawing very nice drawing...tell me what paper you did this on...what pencils... i love drawing with pencils...... mags of magsnbrei Catherine McKay wrote:--- chuty001 wrote: > For anyone interested here's a link to one of my > drawings let me know what > you think. I'll leave it up for the week end. Thanks > DF > > http://www.geocities.com/thatstrangesite/Drawing-Joni1-1.jpg You *drew* that? I'm impressed! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:39:04 -0500 From: Subject: MACK'S RESPONSE MACK: My opinions are valid (I believe), and so are yours. Shall we agree to disagree? ;-) That's the thing about great art: it inspires such passionate responses. Personally, I could talk about Joni and her work forever and ever amen: it is that rich. The fact that I haven't liked a few things makes me no less a huge fan than yourself. And there's nothing more invigorating -- more fun! -- than passionately agreeing, or disagreeing, with a fellow fan. We're all friends here, yes? If I came across too negative, I'm sorry. MICHAEL ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:42:42 -0500 From: "chuty001" Subject: Re: calling mr. kratzman... mtotzke wrote: > she has written some lyrics unworthy of her great talent? > BORDERLINE > > (which I find a bit of a bore, I'm > > afraid): "You snipe so steady / You > > snub so snide-- / So ripe and ready / > > To diminish and deride!" A little > > illiteration goes a long way. If I didn't know better I would think Joni was discribing your original post Mtotzke. DF ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:03:01 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Joni's 80s music Andrew wrote: > but I just wanted to interject a few thoughts on > Joni's much-maligned work in the '80s. Until Joni, I thought the entire decade, musically was generally a waste. But no longer. Critics > either ignored it or tore it to shreds Critics. Who cares? Those who can do, those who can't talk about it, or deride it. > > Even Joni has some misgivings about her 80s work: her > difficulty with Thomas Dolby, some trouble with > Klein's melodies, Too bad that wasn't a double album. > Dog Eat Dog is growing on me. I hated it at first and > thought it was a really shoddy album, overtly > technological with lyrics that were slack, at best. Course, make no secret about my feelings on this one, or anything else for that matter. lol Then again, why should we? Really unusual but it grabbed me immediately and still can't get enough of it. I do find the lyrics incomparable but the musical tone is what drew me into it in the first place. The marriage of the two takes it over the top. So subtle in so many ways. Rod Steiger as the preacher, interjected into the places meant only for him. 'i am preaching love, i am.' For someone coming from the pew about which she sings does bring much more into it for me. There are many Joni tunes that have lyrics befitting perfection yet the lack of equitable music ruins them for me. > But there is enormous subtlety and magic in some of > those songs, in the music, in the voice, in the > lyrics. Good Friends, Fiction, Dog Eat Dog and > Ethiopia are brilliant, in my opinion. You are quite right on in your analysis. You have great insights. > Dog Eat Dog was ahead of its time, albeit a little > earnest in its drive to sound like a product of the > 80s. Visionary but I don't agree with the earnestness to sound 80's. I simply Joan was trying to do something new and as for the sentiments, damn, couldn't have done them better, in my opinion. I don't even think it sounded 80's. The 80's were so bad................................. > Gabriel, Billy Idol and Willie Nelson her way. And, > why not? I haven't completed my Joni catalog but find the guest artists on DED only made it better. Have a new respect for Dolby now. Well, respect, I had none before. > > Joni is no more perfect than you or I Now, examine that statement closely Andrew. lol Glad to read you as always. mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:06:04 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: Joni's 80s music > Joni is no more perfect than you or I >>Now, examine that statement closely Andrew. lol Point taken - :-) What I MEANT was that none of us is perfect, therefore Joni isn't either. - - Andrew "Perfection Personified" Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:18:25 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #534 Maureen wrote: One day I was with him and he blurted out to me, "Do > you stll listen to that depressed woman?" Maureen, that is so profound and really got to me. I LOVE THE JMDL for comments such as this. I am personally going through some changes and as missy says "happier than I've ever been' but still get the depressed thing. Go figure. Yea, it takes a certain, special animal to get Joni Mitchell. How lucky we are. mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:33:23 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: The three great sycophants I recall a Joni Mitchell interview where she said that the bulk of her audience can be divided into three large pockets of people: women, African Americans and gay men. If you don't fall into one of those categories, there is still hope for you. :-) She said that she had trouble believing that a powerful, white heterosexual male would truly understand her music, but I'm sure there are a few out there. Will Bill Clinton please rise? Actually, pass on that one... She said if a white, straight man did get her music it's because he had been somehow screwed by the system, cheated of happiness and love, or probably suffers from consistent depression. Great quote about Joni: "There are those who find Joni Mitchell depressing and those who, already depressed, find her uplifting." - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:30:54 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: the eighties >>my friend and I were sayin that Joni and Bob Dylan both had a rough time in the eighties<< i sure had a rough time in the 80's...lol... seriously, it was a weird time for music imo...seemed like it was the death of acoustic music & everything was synthesized....i know i'm generalizing but that's what i remember...sometime towards the later part of that decade, when i heard shawn colvin for the first time, it seemed like a miracle... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:30:55 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame >>And after all, when the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inducts you, is it so damned hard to show up and graciously receive the award? Isn't it a little odd that joni arranges to receive the damned award when she is videotaping a concert to be sold to promote a tour? << from what i recall, joni was po'd at them for snubbing her for (? years) that she was eligible...so that is why she didn't show up, & then graham showed up with it in a paper bag...i don't see joni as calculating but i do see her as someone who won't hold back on her opinions (thus the award in the paperbag)...she also did not show up for a grammy when she had just been reunited with kilauren...i'm not sure that these biz award things are all that meaninful to her...as opposed to those like the toronto hommage last year that is so much more 'artful' imo... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:22:52 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Goldie's "Carey" Catherine writes: << Muller is much better looking than DeNiro. >> Hmm. I guess we know who wins the next set of covers . . . --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:47:16 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: The three great sycophants In a message dated 12/1/2002 1:34:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: > She said if a white, straight man did get her music it's because he had been > somehow screwed by the system, cheated of happiness and love, or probably > suffers from consistent depression. > Yes, that was her 2000 interview on the CBC...pissed me off pretty good. I thought I got her music just because I appreciated good talent. Then again, who among us hasn't been cheated by the system of lost in love? Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:00:32 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: The three great sycophants Bob: Yes, that was her 2000 interview on the CBC...pissed me off pretty good. I thought I got her music just because I appreciated good talent. Then again, who among us hasn't been cheated by the system of lost in love? Andrew: Oh, absolutely. Then again, not everyone who has lost in love or been screwed by the system likes or understands Joni Mitchell. I think that anyone who has an interest in relationships, in the intricacies of romance, love and life will understand Joni Mitchell and appreciate her. It takes a sensitive heart, though, a deep soul. The three groupings Joni mentions is more like a census or a general observation. It's true that she's got huge pockets of gay fans, female fans and black fans. But not exclusively. Joni's fans are people who like great art and are patient enough to reflect upon it, regardless of gender, sexual orientation or race. Don't you think? - -ANDREW Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:11:30 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: critisism of joni & sexism? on the topic of whether critics are tough on joni because she is female & has excelled in a basically male business...i would never underestimate the undercurrent of sexism that runs through the music biz & as an example here is a very common scenario that was recently expressed by a male who is very supportive of female artists): >>In 1988/89, I worked at a major San Francisco radio station, as a volunteer, mostly to learn what I could about the radio biz. I was shocked to learn that the station had a formal policy which *prohibited* playing two women artists in-a-row... it was a rude awakening to the music business' dismissive policy toward women musicians, a policy some of you know well.<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:10:35 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: critisism of joni & sexism? Regarding the Nazareth cover of "This Flight Tonight," I heard it on the radio once and the announcer said afterwards, "When Joni Mitchell sang it, it sucked. These guys gave it balls." Why does all rock music need balls? Just a rhetorical question... There is a hard-rock station here in Ottawa and the only female voices you'll hear on that station are Alanis Morrisette and Garbage. And it's been that way for about two years now. Sad. Kate Bennett wrote:on the topic of whether critics are tough on joni because she is female & has excelled in a basically male business...i would never underestimate the undercurrent of sexism that runs through the music biz & as an example here is a very common scenario that was recently expressed by a male who is very supportive of female artists): >>In 1988/89, I worked at a major San Francisco radio station, as a volunteer, mostly to learn what I could about the radio biz. I was shocked to learn that the station had a formal policy which *prohibited* playing two women artists in-a-row... it was a rude awakening to the music business' dismissive policy toward women musicians, a policy some of you know well.<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 13:30:53 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: A nice love song Here's a question from an non-member that I thought I'd throw out to the list. Thanks, Les >From: NyEv@aol.com >Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:29:00 EST > >Hi--hoping you can help me.....I am not familiar with Joni Mitchell's >music--and I'm trying to find a nice, positive love song from Joni Mitchell. >Can you help suggest something?? It's a gift for a wedding present.....need >to get the lyrics. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:36:25 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: A nice love song I think "Love" is a great love song. It's not about a couple in love, but it's about the joys of love itself - the greatest beauty. That's my vote. Joni's "couple" songs are usually tainted with some sort of inner turmoil or struggle to comprehend it. "I hate you some, I love you some..." But "Love" is a great song. And the orchestral version of it would be lovely at a wedding for a slow dance. - -Andrew Les Irvin wrote:Here's a question from an non-member that I thought I'd throw out to the list. Thanks, Les >From: NyEv@aol.com >Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:29:00 EST > >Hi--hoping you can help me.....I am not familiar with Joni Mitchell's >music--and I'm trying to find a nice, positive love song from Joni Mitchell. >Can you help suggest something?? It's a gift for a wedding present.....need >to get the lyrics. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 13:38:07 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Beside herself Joniphiles - I just want to reiterate that the Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself project is very serious and is moving right along. I know there are many talented artists on this list and we've heard from none of you yet. Consider this... your sketch, your idea could actually become THE statue in the Saskatoon city park. This is an incredible opportunity for you! But you have to move quickly. At this point, even just a rough sketch of your idea is all we need. Send your ideas to . Your work could become immortalized! Les ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:15:41 -0500 From: "chuty001" Subject: Re: A nice love song Little Green gets my vote. DF - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Les Irvin" To: Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 3:30 PM Subject: A nice love song > Here's a question from an non-member that I thought I'd throw out to the > list. > Thanks, > Les > > >From: NyEv@aol.com > >Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:29:00 EST > > > >Hi--hoping you can help me.....I am not familiar with Joni Mitchell's > >music--and I'm trying to find a nice, positive love song from Joni Mitchell. > >Can you help suggest something?? It's a gift for a wedding present.....need > >to get the lyrics. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 15:19:32 -0600 From: "Steve Polifka" Subject: Re: the eighties I loved 80's music! (ducking for cover- lol). Being a keyboard player, I thought synths were fun. All my musician friends were acoustic players at the time, so I never lost my interest in my musical roots. However, they looked at me cross-eyed when I wrote some of my songs like synth-pop. ;-) Right now, I am enjoying listening to WTRF with my new boyfriend. Maybe it's Joni's unabashed love for Larry that comes through, (or Jeff's big grin when Underneath the Streetlight comes on) that's letting me connect once again with that lp. Yes I do, yes I do- I love ya!!!! (That goes for all of you out there, too.. hee hee) Steve, who's fallen into the abyss, and enjoying every minute of it... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Bennett" To: Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 1:30 PM Subject: the eighties > >>my friend and I were sayin that Joni and Bob Dylan both had a rough time > in the eighties<< > > i sure had a rough time in the 80's...lol... > > seriously, it was a weird time for music imo...seemed like it was the death > of acoustic music & everything was synthesized....i know i'm generalizing > but that's what i remember...sometime towards the later part of that decade, > when i heard shawn colvin for the first time, it seemed like a miracle... > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com > Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs > Over the Moon- > "bringing the melancholy world of twilight > to life almost like magic" All Music Guide > ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 16:17:08 -0500 From: nyroman Subject: Travelogue - Detroit Free Press Review Here is the review of Travelogue, published in today's Detroit Free Press, Sunday, December 1, 2002. I typed it as it was, including any flaws it might contain! Best, Gary Zack POP Joni Mitchell - Travelogue (Nonesuch) *** Mitchell, who turned 59 in November, would undoubtedly resent having this elegantly packaged and produced (by ex-husband Larry Klein) two-CD set labeled as "pop." But this tour through her back catalog, in which songs as widely known as "Woodstock" and as faintly remembered as "The Dawntreader" are revisited and reconsidered in various settings - many with a 70-piece orchestra and choir - doesn't really fit really any category aside from "art." In recent interviews, Mitchell sounds like a crank convinced that the world has gone to hell in a handbasket, but her basket has at least been beautifully embroidered, drawing our attention to the delicate craftsmanship in even the most confessional of her songs, like the early "The Last Time I Saw Richard," with its indelible opening line; "The last time I saw Richard was Detroit in '68, and he told me, all romantics meet the same fate someday / Cynical and drunk and boring someone in some dark cafe." There is nothing here even remotely boring, and Mitchell certainly sounds sober, but the loss of her romantic ideals, with the accompanying cynicism, can be heard in her feathery vocals and the lost-horizon arrangements by Klein, who finds a lighter touch than on her last orchestrated CD of standards, "Both Sides Now." Some of these songs, especially the jazz-inflected "God Must Be A Boogie Man" and "Trouble Child" have been improved by their new, spatial surroundings, and the core band, which includes longtime collaborators Wayne Shorter on saxophone and Herbie Hancock on piano, Klein on bass and the fine Brian Blades on drums, brings out the best in her vocals. But there was little to be improved on in "Amelia" and "For The Roses," even though it's interesting to hear them reinterpreted. What one misses are those giggles and hiccups that once punctuated - and sometimes deflated - her stern pronouncements on the state of things. We already took you seriously, Joni. By Terry Lawson, Free Press staff writer ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:06:18 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: CRITICISM Little Bird wrote: >>Maybe she's perceived as being too big for her britches, so people want to cut her down to size. I think this rankles some people all the more because she's female Hmm. Seems that men are perceived as having strong leadership qualities and women are perceived as being ball breaking bitches. This wouldn't be the first time Ive heard about some people being intimidated by Joni. Apparently, even sweet baby James was initially. (according to Ian Halperin in Fire and Rain, The James Taylor Story). Mags. nw: four hanukkah candles glowing in our window. Happy Hanukkah everyone!!!! You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:14:58 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Drawing Perhaps Les will post it on the jmdl web site?? It's beautiful. Yea, I keep saying that. Mags.... Randy Remote wrote:This is excellent chuty001 wrote: > For anyone interested here's a link to one of my drawings let me know what > you think. I'll leave it up for the week end. Thanks DF > > http://www.geocities.com/thatstrangesite/Drawing-Joni1-1.jpg You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 17:31:15 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Goldie's "Carey" --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > Catherine writes: > > << Muller is much better looking than DeNiro. >> > > Hmm. I guess we know who wins the next set of covers > . . . > Why, you nasty boy - the thought never crossed my lil old mind! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:43:26 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: the eighties >>I loved 80's music! (ducking for cover- lol). Being a keyboard player, I thought synths were fun.<< hey i actually liked a lot of it too...peter gabriel & steve winwood come to mind...& i even bought a synth...a roland D-50! ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 22:49:36 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: A nice love song > Joni's "couple" songs are usually tainted with some sort of inner turmoil or struggle to comprehend it. "I hate you some, I love you some..." > > and that is part of being in love and of loving someone over time. it isn't ll roses. it gorws and matures. you learn to accpe the imperfections-in both of you! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 22:56:48 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #534 > I think a lot >of men don't get Joni emotional lyrics. > and niether do a lot of women. Having ahd a lot to do with both sexes in my 44 eyars, i think both can be shallow and emotionally ingonoratnt. Both can be wonderful and on the ball emotionally. Men and women do have have different ways of dealing with things but it is a mistake to think that men don't 'feel' because they express themselves differently fromt he rest of su. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 15:18:06 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: three rings in the sun For Kurt: From "Otis and Marlena" - "She taps her glass with an emory file, watching three rings in the sun..." The three rings in the sun are called areoles. They are formed as a result of light difraction on the microdrops of water in the atmosphere. The bigger the drops the smaller the diameter of the areoles around the moon or the sun. The ones around the sun are not usually visible because of the intense brightness, but they can sometimes be seen while wearing sunglasses (Foster Grants!) So, I think that explains it. I am assuming that because Miami is coastal that the three rings in the sun are visible quite a bit, thanks to the intense sunshine and the moisture in the atmosphere above the sea. But, I'm sure Joni didn't consider any of that astronomical stuff when writing the song. She probably realized that you could sometimes see a couple of rings around the sun and thought it was a neat image. And it is! - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 15:25:45 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: The three great sycophants Andrew wrote: > Joni's fans are people who like great art and are patient enough to reflect upon it, regardless of gender, sexual >orientation or race. > > Don't you think? Yes! Also, I think some do not necessarily have to be reflective or patient to love it - have known many who loved her music instantly. When Joni's first few albums came out, every straight guy I knew was in love with them and her. Some of them were musicians or want-to-be musicians. I remember even a jock in college in whose collection I spotted Ladies of The Canyon. Of course, when I dug it out in front of a bunch of his friends, he claimed it was his sister's album and that he didn't know how it got in his stuff and promptly told me to take it away - haha. Still have it ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 15:38:39 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Joni tribute album From the creator of a now-defunct Bjork tribute album: why he stopped the project. I can see how this might pertain to 'A Case of Joni'...but hope it doesn't! "Ask any reviewer and I think they'll tell you: tribute albums are the lowest life form of music there is. Imitation is not the sincerest form of flattery when it comes to popular music. Unless the artist performing the cover is more renowned than the original songwriter it is at first glance suspect, cavalier, and disingenuous. After making the decision to commission songs from musicians in the community of indiepop/rock I started to get cold feet." Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 15:46:07 -0800 (PST) From: hell Subject: Re: three rings in the sun > Little Bird wrote: > From "Otis and Marlena" - "She taps her glass with an emory file, > watching three rings in the sun..." > But, I'm sure Joni didn't consider any of that astronomical stuff when > writing the song. She probably realized that you could sometimes see a > couple of rings around the sun and thought it was a neat image. And it > is! Or Marlena was sitting in the sun wearing three rings on her hand, or she was watching someone with three rings. Or someone was juggling three rings on the beach, or..... There are any number of interpretations of Joni's lyrics, and any one of them might be "right". Only Joni knows for sure, but as she has said in the past "Forget about what it means to me, what does it mean to YOU?" Hell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:03:59 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: three rings in the sun Hell: Or Marlena was sitting in the sun wearing three rings on her hand, or she was watching someone with three rings. Or someone was juggling three rings on the beach, or..... As Ken said to me, watching what may as well be a three-ring circus of retired beach junkies flaking, diving, jiggling in the sun. It could be anything, absolutely. My theory was just another one to add to the list. -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 00:36:52 -0000 From: "Paul Headon" Subject: travelogue due anticipation overload ! hi I am expecting Travelogue to arrive tomorrow I have already listened to the MP3 files. I think they are great but the backing musicians are a little muffled, but that will be sorted with the higher quality yes?. Anyway I hope it comes anyway I think I got a good price #12.99 (approx $20.20) This is already a delayed delivery so here's hoping. This wait is Killing me :-) Hope You're all enjoying your copies!! Cheers, Paul Headon Wales - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:42:54 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: three rings in the sun In a message dated 12/1/2002 7:04:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: > As Ken said to me, watching what may as well be a three-ring circus of > retired beach junkies flaking, diving, jiggling in the sun. This is what has always worked for me, given the preceeding lines: Like it's her opera box All those Pagliacci summer frocks Otis is fiddling with the TV dial All he gets are cartoons and reruns She taps her glass with an emery file Watching three rings in the sun The "Pagliacci" (the opera clown) reference setting the circus scene, and the "three ring" lyric continuing the thought. But like you say, there ain't no right or wrong... Bob NP: The Yale Spizzwinks, "The Circle Game" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:46:57 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: A nice love song In a message dated 12/1/2002 5:50:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: > and that is part of being in love and of loving someone over time. it > isn't ll roses. it gorws and matures. you learn to accpe the > imperfections-in both of you! > That's why Jericho gets my vote as one of the best love songs ever...but it's probably not appropriate for what this dude is looking for, so I'll say "Love" as well. After all, if it is indeed for a wedding, this passage of scripture gets used a lot, and what is Joni's song other than a paraphrase of the scripture? Bob NP: Madeline McaNeil, "Michael From Mountains" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:48:32 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: The three great sycophants In a message dated 12/1/2002 3:00:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: > Joni's fans are people who like great art and are patient enough to reflect > upon it, regardless of gender, sexual orientation or race. > > Don't you think? > > That's an excellent way of putting it, Andrew...wouldn't it be cool if JONI realized it! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 17:14:40 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: three rings in the sun The reason I brought up the astronomical explanation is because one of the listers told me he once heard a weather report for Miami stating that the three rings in the sun would be clearly visible that day, which made him think of O&M immediately. Maybe it's a southern Florida thing? - -Andrew SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 12/1/2002 7:04:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: > As Ken said to me, watching what may as well be a three-ring circus of > retired beach junkies flaking, diving, jiggling in the sun. This is what has always worked for me, given the preceeding lines: Like it's her opera box All those Pagliacci summer frocks Otis is fiddling with the TV dial All he gets are cartoons and reruns She taps her glass with an emery file Watching three rings in the sun The "Pagliacci" (the opera clown) reference setting the circus scene, and the "three ring" lyric continuing the thought. But like you say, there ain't no right or wrong... Bob NP: The Yale Spizzwinks, "The Circle Game" Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 17:19:18 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Published Travelogue review Another favourable one from a Canadian site: www.canoe.ca/jam I can't imagine why ANYONE would want an orchestral version of Big Yellow Taxi or Raised on Robbery! If anyone could do it, though, it's Joni. Some artists know how to make an entrance. Joni Mitchell knows how to make an exit. The famously prickly singer-songwriter claims her latest album Travelogue is her swan song from the odious swamp that the music business has become. Well, we don't know about all that. But we can tell you that the mercurial Ms. Mitchell sure does throw herself a swank going-away soiree. This beautifully packaged two-CD set follows Joni as she relives some of the highlights of her career, delivering 22 of her personal favourites with the help of crack players like sax legend Wayne Shorter, pianist Herbie Hancock and an orchestra conducted by Vince Mendoza (whose baton also graced her 2000 covers album Both Sides Now). Naturally, Joni's favourites might not be the same as yours -- while Woodstock and The Circle Game make appearances, Travelogue ignores seemingly obvious picks like Big Yellow Taxi, Raised on Robbery, Help Me and Both Sides Now in favour of relative obscurities such as Otis and Marlena. Still, Mitchell's exquisite voice (which has descended over the decades from a brash soprano to a smoky alto) and Mendoza's rich arrangements (which run the gamut from the lush orchestral landscape of Wild Things Run Fast's Love to the moody jazz silhouettes of Mingus's God Must be a Boogie Man) just might convince you to add some of these to your own personal Mitchell best-of. Ultimately, whether you're glad to see Joni go or not, Travelogue sends her off in style. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 18:05:14 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: A nice love song night ride home >Hi--hoping you can help me.....I am not familiar with Joni Mitchell's >music--and I'm trying to find a nice, positive love song from Joni Mitchell. >Can you help suggest something?? It's a gift for a wedding present.....need >to get the lyrics.>> ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 22:03:18 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Beside herself Les writes: << I know there are many talented artists on this list and we've heard from none of you yet. >> I don't know if you received my suggestion that Joni be seated at a grand piano with room for someone to sit on the piano bench next to her. I also suggested (if the sculpture needs to be less "grand") that a sculptor create a piece which featured Joni sitting on the ground with a guitar or dulcimer (a back-to-the garden kinda thing). As for drawing my ideas, I do not have that talent. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 23:07:26 -0400 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: some thoughts on repeated listenings After an initial few listenings, putting it aside, and then going back to it, I find T to be a tremendous pleasure. In fact, I find it more enjoyable each time I hear it. I admire its audaciousness, its ambition and its generosity. And I'm very glad and grateful Joni decided to do it. I find the arrangements and orchestrations to be interesting, somewhat surprising and quite sympathetic to the individual worlds of each song. In some cases, Sex Kills and Sire of Sorrow in particular, the new settings bring the pieces to more exuberant life than the original recordings. And the vocal performances, to my ears, are superb. Has the voice changed? Sure. Have the changes impaired her emotional delivery? Not at all. (Although it does seem that at certain moments the orchestra surges to support the voice that in earlier times could achieve the power on its own.) In full disclosure, there are gaps in my Joni knowledge. The first record I listened to was LOTC, so I missed the first 2 albums. I followed her through the seventies. Missed the eighties. Resumed with NRH. So some of the songs on T are new to me, with no awareness of the original recordings to compare the new versions to. The presence of, to my ears, 'new' material is nice. But I still ask myself why she chose to do this. And I'm reminded of Dylan's two albums from the early nineties where he covered old blues and folk tunes, not including any new songs of his own. It seems those records were a means of getting back in touch with the traditions that truly inspired him. It worked. The next record, Time Out of Mind, was a masterpiece. I wonder if these most recent records of Joni's are a similar exercise. The traditions she returns to are not, of course, blues or folk, but the classic American popular songs of Porter, the Gershwins, Arlen, etc. And I think the purpose of the 'recontextualization' that the liner notes of T speak of is to place Mitchell firmly among the pantheon of great American songwriters mentioned above. The orchestrations remove the songs from the pop cultural crosscurrents of the 60s, 70s and 80s, and make us look at them in a new way. And the new way is as theater -- T has made me realize that as a composer and, especially, lyricist Joni is, with her best work, on a par with Sondheim. I'm surprised that no one has constructed a Broadway show around her work. Of course, no one can say whether this process of rediscovery on her part will ultimately result in remarkable new compositions. I hope so. If not, I'm glad she gave us this. PS. Why is there nothing from HOSL on T? This is a major puzzlement to me. Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 22:45:13 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: three rings in the sun > Little Bird wrote: > > > From "Otis and Marlena" - "She taps her glass with > an emory file, > > watching three rings in the sun..." > > --- hell wrote: > > Or Marlena was sitting in the sun wearing three > rings on her hand, or she > was watching someone with three rings. Or someone > was juggling three rings > on the beach, or..... > > There are any number of interpretations of Joni's > lyrics, and any one of > them might be "right". Only Joni knows for sure, > but as she has said in the > past "Forget about what it means to me, what does it > mean to YOU?" ...or the three rings of a circus. Include those Pagliacci summer frocks, and you've got your clown. The Grand Parade (of cellulite jiggling to her golden pools.) Jiggling/juggling. Marlena watches from her balcony "like it's an opera box." Circus, opera, whatever, there's lots going on in the circus/opera of life. And lots of meaning in so many of Joni's songs. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 23:02:26 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Travelogue packaging I think the packaging for Travelogue has to be the best CD package design I've ever seen. There may be others out there, but I haven't seen them. The box itself that holds everything is sturdy but there's no plastic involved. The texture of the stock (whether it's the cardboard/paper or the ink used to print it) is smooth and silky. Then inside you've got a book of lyrics and, best of all, the hard-cover little book inside with a CD on each side and the wonderful pictures of Joni's paintings. I love the look of it and the feel of it. I guess I'm a bit of a packaging freak. My Dad worked in the corrugated paper industry where there's not a lot of artistic license (how many ways can you reinvent the beer carton?) but I remember how he had the plant's artists come up with a design for a bed for our dog and, when I was in Grade 1, a "TV" that I brought to school that the kid could sit inside and do a show for the class (singing, reciting, a puppet show, or whatever), so the kid could be "on TV." Since then, I have to say I admire a well-thought-out package, one that makes sense for what it contains, but that also has a sort of beauty on its own. Like, for example, those tetrahedron juice containers. There's a product you can buy in Canada, at least in the Toronto area, called "Lola". It's a fruit drink that you can either drink, or freeze and eat like a popsicle. The container is a tetrahedon and it's brilliant. The other kind of thing I love is boxes that open up and there's another inside, and another inside that. Like the Russian Matrushka dolls. Last Christmas, I gave my daughter a pair of earings but I wrapped the first box, inside another box, wrapped; then again, inside another box. It was just for fun and so she wouldn't guess (right away, that is) what it was. I just think the package for Travelogue, the design and the artwork and everything, are so amazing, that Joni (if it's her design and I think it's at least partly hers) should win some kind of award for that. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #369 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)