From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #367 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, December 1 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 367 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- BBC Joni on CMT ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] A Case of Joni? What's the deal? ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Reflections on Joni [Cactustree78@aol.com] Re: "Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself" Fund [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Goldie's "Carey" [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: A Case of Joni? What's the deal? [Catherine McKay ] Joni statue [Little Bird ] Re: CRITICISM [Little Bird ] Re: A Case of Joni? What's the deal? [Michael Paz ] Re: A Case of Joni? What's the deal? [Little Bird ] Re: CRITICISM [Little Bird ] Re: Criticism [vince ] Re: Goldie's "Carey" [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Criticism [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Criticism [vince ] Re: CRITICISM ["chuty001" ] Drawing ["chuty001" ] Re: Drawing [vince ] New - Joni Mitchell Saskatoon statue committee [Sarah Gibb ] Re: Drawing [Randy Remote ] The Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself Fund [Sarah Gibb ] calling mr. kratzman... [] Re: "Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself" Fund [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Goldie's "Carey" [Christoffer Gudi Sommer-Gleerup ] Re: Drawing [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: "Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself" Fund ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: calling mr. kratzman... ["mack watson-bush" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 03:43:27 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: BBC Joni on CMT Michael in Quebec, Did you video tape it? It sounds like the session that's uhhhn "widely distributed" under the name "The Pink Dress Concert" but every copy I've seen has a counter running on it. If you have a video without that, I'd like to dub it for my friend, the archivist and my other friend, the video compiler. What say ye? Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 03:52:09 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: A Case of Joni? What's the deal? Okay, here's the deal. They're holding it up to allow the "sell-through" on the PazFest set. If you want to the the "A Case Of Joni" set, with Elvis Costello, you have to buy PazFest first. Go to www.jmdl.com , plunk down your $30 US dollars to help a very worthy charity, and enjoy 2 CDs of New Orleans finest musicians, and the Bryan Thomas Band thrown in too! I'm not entirely serious about the delay but very serious about the PazFest set. Lama >>>>> Little Bird asked: I'm looking for any information about what happened to the "A Case of Joni" tribute album that is apparently finished and sitting in some vault somewhere. Does anyone know why it was shelved? Is it going to be released at some point? If so, what are they waiting for? Any info would be greatly appreciated. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 01:52:19 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: "Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself" Fund Joniphiles - The "Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself" fund is for real! An actual committee is underway to raise funds for a Joni statue in Saskatoon. The committee consists of: Sarah Gibb... A freelance journalist/writer originally from the UK, now living in Saskatoon. Tina Merrifield... Acting communications director at the University of Saskatchewan. Mark Salzl... Wrote the recent letter to the Saskatoon city council about a Joni Mitchell statue which became a story in the StarPhoenix (http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1018), which interviewed Joni. The story was picked up by the Vancouver Sun (http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1012) and the Regina Leader Post (http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1013). Mark has also been contacted by CBC. Mary Tastad... Law librarian at the University of Saskatchewan. Les Irvin... (how'd he get on there??) Currently the committee is looking for an artist to... well... here it is in Sarah's words: >I'd like to have a poster made up announcing the existence of the Joni >Mitchell's Beside Herself Fund, to put up around Saskatoon, in the coffee >houses etc, with the name of the Fund, bank account number, and an >explanation that we're raising funds for a statue of Joni Mitchell in >Saskatoon. > >I was thinking it would be nice to have some artwork on it, showing >roughly what the end product will look like. A park bench with Joni >Mitchell sitting at one end of it. It can be a very rough pencil sketch, >and I don't suppose it really has to look like Joni Mitchell - a thin >woman with long hair would do it probably. The artist can make it quite >abstract if s/he wants to, although it should still be clear what it's >meant to be. > >I was also thinking of putting some lines from her songs on the poster. > >If anyone on the list can help with artwork, specifically the drawing of >the bench with her sitting on it, that would be fantastic. Artists! We need your help. Please send ideas and sketches to . Your sketch could be the one to end up on the poster. Thanks for your help. Les ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 05:18:13 -0500 From: Cactustree78@aol.com Subject: Reflections on Joni Hello all I had surgery this week (nothin serious) so I had alot of time to chill and listen to dame Joni...I decided to listen to everything all at once up to Travelouge..One thing I decided is that its really hard for me to dig anything she did in the 1980's, now put you daggers away...there are bits and pieces on each album I like, but overall I feel its a strange decade for her music..not strange cause its different just strange to me...For those of you who are a lil older than me.. was it easier to dig these albums when they first came out? Its just hard for me to go from the amazing 67-78 albums even love Mingus now...I feel left out when it comes to these albums but I just cant get deep into them,my friend and I were sayin that Joni and Bob Dylan both had a rough time in the eighties but there are people Im sure on the list who think that her 80s music is her best please help me love it!! i feel like an incomplete fan..Now 90s through now AWESOME Night Ride Home TI TTT T LOVE IT!!!I dont know maybe it was the painkillers...Love Peace and Good things to you all Happy Thanksgiving im certainly thankful for the JMDL!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 08:40:33 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: "Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself" Fund In a message dated 11/30/2002 3:54:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, ljirvin@jmdl.com writes: > Les Irvin... (how'd he get on there??) > Congratulations on the honor, Les...they must know that you're the guy that gets sh*t DONE! :~) I'm just wondering if this statue is going to become some sacred Mecca-like pilgrimage we're all going to have to make. Bob, still missing yesterday's "Joni's smoking history"! ;~) NP: Joshua Redman, "I Had A King" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 08:51:01 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Goldie's "Carey" In a message dated 11/30/2002 12:32:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, Relayer211@aol.com writes: > On > the CD is Goldie's version of "Carey".Has anyone heard it? Is it any good? > It was on Volume 7 in the covers series (which I've recently remastered from source recordings). I think it's real good, Goldie has a good voice (and great legs but that's irrelevant to this discussion) and sings it in a very playful fashion. Like most Carey covers, she sings "mantle of the moon" instead of "Mattala moon", but not too many of us have the word Mattala in our vocabulary. Goldie's a big Joni fan - she was featured prominently in the audience at the TNT tribute. Bob NP: Michael Feinstein, "Both Sides Now" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 10:04:33 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: A Case of Joni? What's the deal? --- "Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama)" wrote: > Okay, here's the deal. They're holding it up to > allow the "sell-through" on > the PazFest set. If you want to the the "A Case Of > Joni" set, with Elvis > Costello, you have to buy PazFest first. > > Go to www.jmdl.com , plunk down your $30 US dollars > to help a very worthy > charity, and enjoy 2 CDs of New Orleans finest > musicians, and the Bryan > Thomas Band thrown in too! I'm not entirely serious > about the delay but > very serious about the PazFest set. Y'know? I can't even tell if you're serious or joking; to be honest, I have no idea what you're TALKING about. Maybe I wasn't paying attention in class. What I really wanna know though is, is Paz accepting PayPal now? (Did you realize you're now an agent of Paz?) I've been (as usual) broke or I'd have picked up a money order for this ages ago but, for what it's worth, if I can do this by Paypal and a credit card, it probably costs only a little more than the service charge for a money order, plus I can do this any old time instead of making a trip to the credit union. Of course, there's the fact that my credit cards are all maxed, but that won't be for much longer. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 10:09:47 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: "Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself" Fund --- Les Irvin wrote: > Joniphiles - - > > The "Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself" fund is for > real! An actual committee > is underway to raise funds for a Joni statue in > Saskatoon. The committee > consists of: [...] > >If anyone on the list can help with artwork, > specifically the drawing of > >the bench with her sitting on it, that would be > fantastic. > > Artists! We need your help. Please send ideas and > sketches to > . Your sketch could be the > one to end up on the > poster. I love the idea of those statues that are combined with benches, or whatever. There's one outside the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto and I tried to find a picture of it on their website, but wasn't able to. It's made of bronze (I guess it's bronze) and it is in the form of a bench with a couple of mothers (maybe a father too, I don't remember). They're just sitting on this bench and they look like they're just yakkin' to one another. One of them is breastfeeding her baby (this caused a few outcries in Toronto the good - the very idea!) Anyway, it's a neat idea. You can sit on this bench beside these bronze women or in between them even. This is kind of what I see as a good idea for a Joni statue. Unfortunately I'm no artist. I'm sure there are statues of this kind in lots of places and this has always struck me as a more useful kind of statue than the usual guy standing on a pedestal looking noble. There are quite a few artists on this list, n'est-ce pas? Wouldn't it be something if one of our own jmdlers won this commission? and thanks to Joni for the idea, of course. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 07:45:42 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Travelogue Dream Concert It's up to you.... choose the set list for Joni's Travelogue tour.... np: Be Cool You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 08:55:41 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Joni statue Bob, the statue will definitely become a mecca for Joni fans. Fans and their offspring will journey to the site in flocks (maybe in pink dresses?) and pose beside Joni for photos, hugging the enormous lump of bronze that is the effigy of our goddess, placing flowers at her feet, kissing her cheek (mind the bird droppings)... I went to Saskatoon when I was 8, long before I knew who or what Joni Mitchell was, and recall it being a very quaint little "city." I remember the bridges quite distinctly, although I wish I had paid more attention. My family and I were headed to British Columbia and, truth to be told, I just wanted to get the hell out of flat-land country as fast as possible: "Are we THERE yet??" No offense, Joni. I see Joni's statue sitting cross-legged on the bench, definitely with her guitar, her head tilted upward at the sky, eyes closed in thought. - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 09:22:45 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: CRITICISM I know what you mean about the anger some critics seem to level at Joni, and I know from interviews that Joni has noticed it too. These angry critics seem to have an air of expectation or entitlement: "Joni should release the album that I want Joni to release!" The reason I think Joni gets that so much is because her work is so diverse and covers such an expanse of themes and sounds. That really frustrates people who don't like roller-coaster rides or musicians they can't categorize and label easily. These people generally like safe music and enjoy knowing that the next album will sound similar to the last one. So, they get angry at her when she doesn't comply and say she shouldn't have done this or that, eventually sinking to the depths of mockery. I came across one site that had reviews for each of her records, some were favourable and others were downright mean. Their review of BSN was painfully cruel, saying it sounded as if Joni had swallowed a few bottles of Drain-o before going into the studio and that her assertion that she sounded like Billie Holiday was the most arrogant claim any artist had ever made. Ouch! It's just an album, guys... I think the fact that Joni inspires controversy over her art is a sign of its immense power and longevity. If someone cares enough to go out of their way to praise it or lambaste it, it says a lot about its influence. - -Andrew mtotzke@gosympatico.ca wrote:Earlier, I was browsing a Joni site I'd never been to, which included a lot of album reviews. And it struck me, as it has in the past, that it isn't the fact that music critics (mostly male) don't like some stuff (they're entitled; and I dont like DED or CMIARS much, myself) that upsets me -- its the VITRIOL with which they attack Joni. What is it about her that brings this out in reviewers? I'm still thinking this through. I have my theories, but I'd like to know yours. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 12:37:42 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: A Case of Joni? What's the deal? Hi Catherine Thanks for your interest. I can do Credit Cards now. You can call me week days toll free at my office (800-725-7732) and I will gladly ship out your orders same day. Lots of people have taken advantage of the Christmas Special is which buy 4 get one free. They make beautiful presents for your friends and family or simply trying to assimilate some unsuspecting non-Joni person. Best to all. Paz (home alone on a cold rainy day) on 11/30/02 7:04 AM, Catherine McKay at anima_rising@yahoo.ca wrote: > --- "Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama)" > wrote: > Okay, here's the deal. They're holding it up > to >> allow the "sell-through" on >> the PazFest set. If you want to the the "A Case Of >> Joni" set, with Elvis >> Costello, you have to buy PazFest first. >> >> Go to www.jmdl.com , plunk down your $30 US dollars >> to help a very worthy >> charity, and enjoy 2 CDs of New Orleans finest >> musicians, and the Bryan >> Thomas Band thrown in too! I'm not entirely serious >> about the delay but >> very serious about the PazFest set. > > Y'know? I can't even tell if you're serious or joking; > to be honest, I have no idea what you're TALKING > about. Maybe I wasn't paying attention in class. > > What I really wanna know though is, is Paz accepting > PayPal now? (Did you realize you're now an agent of > Paz?) I've been (as usual) broke or I'd have picked up > a money order for this ages ago but, for what it's > worth, if I can do this by Paypal and a credit card, > it probably costs only a little more than the service > charge for a money order, plus I can do this any old > time instead of making a trip to the credit union. Of > course, there's the fact that my credit cards are all > maxed, but that won't be for much longer. > > > ===== > Catherine > Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 13:40:35 -0500 From: Subject: TRIBUTE My guess is that La Joni herself is holding back the tribute album. She seems to be heavily involved. Probably a good idea -- since the Canadian tribute album of a few years ago (which she dissed publicly) was DREADFUL Can't wait to hear what Elvis C does with SCARLETT. I believe that's what he's contributing. And isn't the late, divine Etta J represented? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 10:52:31 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: A Case of Joni? What's the deal? Here's the full track listing, for those who need a refresher. Costello does "Edith." And hearing Etta James sing "Amelia," Chakah Khan sing "Hejira" and Stevie Wonder sing "Woodstock" - wow!! You're probably right about Joni wanting to keep a lid on it for now. I think she hand-picked these songs, didn't she? I know she had some help from Reprise, but from what I understand she basically gave the okay for this track listing.PM Dawn, Night in the City Annie Lennox, Ladies of the Canyon Stevie Wonder, Woodstock Janet Jackson, Beat of Black Wings Duncan Sheik, Court and Spark kd lang, Help Me Sarah McLachlan, Blue Elvis Costello, Edith and the Kingpin Chaka Khan, Hejira Etta James, Amelia Elton John, Free Man In Paris Bjork, Boho Dance Lindsey Buckingham with Mick Fleetwood, Big Yellow Taxi mtotzke@gosympatico.ca wrote:My guess is that La Joni herself is holding back the tribute album. She seems to be heavily involved. Probably a good idea -- since the Canadian tribute album of a few years ago (which she dissed publicly) was DREADFUL Can't wait to hear what Elvis C does with SCARLETT. I believe that's what he's contributing. And isn't the late, divine Etta J represented? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 20:36:42 +0100 From: Christoffer Gudi Sommer-Gleerup Subject: Re: Goldie's "Carey" Bob said: Like most Carey covers, she sings "mantle of the moon" > instead of "Mattala moon", but not too many of us have the word Mattala in > our vocabulary. > Ha, Mr. Paz! She DOES sing Mattala moon! Has Joni ever sung anything else but that? But what is the Mattala moon anyway?! Christina ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:42:07 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: CRITICISM --- mtotzke@gosympatico.ca wrote: it struck > me, > as it has in the past, that it isn't the fact that > music > critics (mostly male) don't like some stuff (they're > entitled; and I dont like DED or CMIARS much, > myself) > that upsets me -- its the VITRIOL with which they > attack Joni. What is it about her that brings this > out > in reviewers? I'm still thinking this through. I > have my > theories, but I'd like to know yours. My theory is fairly simple and I don't usually jump to these conclusions this easily, but I am pretty sure that her being a woman has a lot to do with it. Most of the "rock" reviewers are male. Most of the popular "rock" artists are male. Joni has crossed boundaries that few composers ever do successfully (that is few do it successfully AND she has done it successfully - and by success, I'm not talking about fame and fortune because there are many who are more famous and many who've made a lot more money than Joni has; but rather the success of being looked up to and respected by so many in the music industry. Who in popular music today (whether you love 'em or hate 'em) has NOT said that Joni influenced them? And a lot of people hate that. Is it jealousy? Is it "tall poppy syndrome"? Maybe she's perceived as being too big for her britches, so people want to cut her down to size. I think this rankles some people all the more because she's female. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 12:03:47 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: CRITICISM >>Maybe she's perceived as being too big for her britches, so people want to cut her down to size. I think this rankles some people all the more because she's female.>> I think it's the same syndrome that has been afflicting dear old Martha Stewart since the early 90s. She's a woman playing a man's game, and beating the pants off most of them in the process, making millions, and they don't like it. So, they call her a bitch or try to mock her product. They've currently taken a little bit of controversy and a dose of allegation and blown it way out of proportion. Is she guilty of insider trading? Probably not. The SEC is considering dropping the charges against her, but that story was buried on page 10 because it didn't involve the downfall of a successful woman. I hear you, loud and clear, Catherine... - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 15:35:21 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: Criticism >>>Catherine opined: Maybe she's perceived as being too big for her britches, so people want to cut her down to size. I think this rankles some people all the more because she's female.>> >>> >>> > >L'il Bird answered: I think it's the same syndrome that has been afflicting dear old Martha Stewart since the early 90s. > > My day to be a disagreeable son of a bitch [sexist phrase, used as an emphatic ironic joke :-) because if the guy is a jerk it must be his mother the bitch's fault...] For Martha, I don't think it is because she is a woman that she is getting overly slammed by the feds (which she is). I think it was originally because she has been so damned in our faces perfect all these years and anyone who sets their own self up as just so perfect is going to catch hell when s/he stumbles. There is a part of me that was really happy to see Martha get in trouble because her act was worn out on me a long, long time ago. And trust me, their are certain folks who are delighted to see Martha in the headlines because it keeps the focus off of worldcom, Enron, etc. as well as the political party and politicians that they have given so much money to and have corporate crime problems of their own. I do have an idea that Martha is innocent, a just recently formed idea, that Martha is innocent. It is a technical matter of what she knew and when she knew it and who she tipped off, but she may well be totally innocent. And if that is so, I will be angry that they went after her as a media diversion from the much more significant corporate corporate crime out there. I am not sure about Joni getting criticized more because she is a woman. She is a rock icon, a music icon, and she gets the good and the bad. I cannot agree that every negative review is unfair, unfair to our poor Joni, etc. Balance all the awards given to her against the criticism - she has had plenty of accolades, a tremendous number actually, and plenty of brickbats too as have everyone who is at her level. Gees, Greg Kot, who always writes glowingly of Joni in the Chicago Tribune, recently reviewed Dylan's concert as (paraphrase) finally incorporating some life in the set list. On the same week that it is announced that a statute is being built for her, a few negative reviews in a few papers don't mean shit. And after all, when the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inducts you, is it so damned hard to show up and graciously receive the award? Isn't it a little odd that joni arranges to receive the damned award when she is videotaping a concert to be sold to promote a tour? I love her, but she ain't beyond criticism. In fact, it is her very flaws that probably make her so outstanding an artist because an artist who basks in perfection (a la Martha) has long ago lost touch of real life. Joni is flawed, Joni is real, and that is an extra dimension to the compelling nature of her music. Speaking of the Chicago Trib and Joni, in a recent review of Grace Slick's art show in Chicago, all paintings of rock and rollers, they mentioned all the 60s/very early 70s rock stars and icons that grace has painted portraits of in once category. In the category of Grace painting portraits of current, contemporary artists, Joni was mentioned in that category. Joni still gets plenty of good press too. And of course no one should ever criticize Joni because she NEVER EVER criticizes anyone else, does she???????? Vince the iconoclast ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 16:08:49 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Goldie's "Carey" In a message dated 11/30/2002 2:37:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, christi@dsr.kvl.dk writes: > Has Joni ever sung anything else but > that? But what is the Mattala moon anyway?! > Joni seems to nail her own lyric pretty good, from my recollections, though she does trip up on some songs every once in a while. Carey was written about her time in Mattala, Crete. There's a nice reference with some pictures of the caves of Mattala at: http://www.jmdl.com/glossary/mermaidcafe.cfm Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 16:12:29 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Criticism In a message dated 11/30/2002 3:36:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, revrvl@chartermi.net writes: > And after all, when the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inducts you, is it > so damned hard to show up and graciously receive the award? Maybe not...but there WAS a requirement that each inductee had to contribute $3,000 or $5,000 dollars or something like that, which Joni did not agree with. Plus, RS wasn't exactly her best pal over all that time. I'm not always in favor of her actions, but in this case I'm behind her as far as sticking up for her principles. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 16:15:26 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: Criticism Well, I didn't know that. You have to pay? That puts a whole different perspective on it. Life is for learning.... Vince SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/30/2002 3:36:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, > revrvl@chartermi.net writes: > >> And after all, when the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inducts you, is it >> so damned hard to show up and graciously receive the award? > > > > Maybe not...but there WAS a requirement that each inductee had to > contribute $3,000 or $5,000 dollars or something like that, which Joni > did not agree with. Plus, RS wasn't exactly her best pal over all that > time. I'm not always in favor of her actions, but in this case I'm > behind her as far as sticking up for her principles. > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 16:25:01 -0500 From: "chuty001" Subject: Re: CRITICISM I Don't think it's a sexist thing as much as a lack of understanding of the opposite sex. Good music is all about emotion and here men and women are very different. I've read the same kind of attacks on Joan Armatrading and Kate Bush both of whom work on the same emotional level IMO. As opposed to say a Tina Turner or Cher who deal in areas men are a little more familiar and don't get the same kind of criticism that I've seen. Any way I think my 2cents has been used up. DF ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 16:42:58 -0500 From: "chuty001" Subject: Drawing For anyone interested here's a link to one of my drawings let me know what you think. I'll leave it up for the week end. Thanks DF http://www.geocities.com/thatstrangesite/Drawing-Joni1-1.jpg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 16:56:21 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: Drawing everyone check this out, it is wonderful! Vince chuty001 wrote: > For anyone interested here's a link to one of my drawings let me know what >you think. I'll leave it up for the week end. Thanks DF > >http://www.geocities.com/thatstrangesite/Drawing-Joni1-1.jpg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 16:01:09 -0700 From: Sarah Gibb Subject: New - Joni Mitchell Saskatoon statue committee This is to let you all know that The Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself Fund is now fully operational. The aim of the Fund is to raise money to commission a park bench with a figure of Joni Mitchell, probably in bronze, sitting at one end of it, and to seek permission to locate this either in downtown Saskatoon near the river, or on Broadway Avenue, where Joni Mitchell often sang in the local coffee houses. The Fund is now accepting donations, which should be sent to: JM's Beside Herself 619 Temperance Street Saskatoon, SK S7N 0M4 Cheques or money orders should be made payable to: The JM's Beside Herself Fund The telephone number of the Fund is: 306-652-8016. Email address is: BesideHerself@shaw.ca 100 per cent of donations will go toward paying for the statue. Committee members are not taking any expenses. The Fund's bank account is with the Credit Union on Broadway Avenue, Saskatoon. We'll be doing a proper media launch as soon as we can find an artist to make a sketch of the bench, for a poster we want to put up around town, so that people can see what they'll be donating to. The Fund's committee members are: Sarah Gibb - freelance journalist/writer living in Saskatoon Tina Merrifield - acting director of communications at the University of Saskatchewan, living in Saskatoon Mary Tastad - law librarian at the University of Saskatchewan, living in Saskatoon Mark Salzl - forestry researcher in Queen Charlotte City B.C., raised in Saskatchewan, who has written many times to Saskatoon city council asking them to commission a statue Les Irvin - founder of the Joni Mitchell Discussion List at http://www.jmdl.com If anyone would like to make a donation, any sum - no matter how small - would be gratefully received. And if anyone can help out with the artwork for the poster, please drop us a line. Best wishes, Sarah Gibb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 13:58:16 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Drawing This is excellent chuty001 wrote: > For anyone interested here's a link to one of my drawings let me know what > you think. I'll leave it up for the week end. Thanks DF > > http://www.geocities.com/thatstrangesite/Drawing-Joni1-1.jpg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 16:01:58 -0700 From: Sarah Gibb Subject: The Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself Fund This is to let you all know that The Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself Fund is now fully operational. The aim of the Fund is to raise money to commission a park bench with a figure of Joni Mitchell, probably in bronze, sitting at one end of it, and to seek permission to locate this either in downtown Saskatoon near the river, or on Broadway Avenue, where Joni Mitchell often sang in the local coffee houses. The Fund is now accepting donations, which should be sent to: JM's Beside Herself 619 Temperance Street Saskatoon, SK S7N 0M4 Cheques or money orders should be made payable to: The JM's Beside Herself Fund The telephone number of the Fund is: 306-652-8016. Email address is: BesideHerself@shaw.ca 100 per cent of donations will go toward paying for the statue. Committee members are not taking any expenses. The Fund's bank account is with the Credit Union on Broadway Avenue, Saskatoon. We'll be doing a proper media launch as soon as we can find an artist to make a sketch of the bench, for a poster we want to put up around town, so that people can see what they'll be donating to. The Fund's committee members are: Sarah Gibb - freelance journalist/writer living in Saskatoon Tina Merrifield - acting director of communications at the University of Saskatchewan, living in Saskatoon Mary Tastad - law librarian at the University of Saskatchewan, living in Saskatoon Mark Salzl - forestry researcher in Queen Charlotte City B.C., raised in Saskatchewan, who has written many times to Saskatoon city council asking them to commission a statue Les Irvin - founder of the Joni Mitchell Discussion List at http://www.jmdl.com If anyone would like to make a donation, any sum - no matter how small - would be gratefully received. And if anyone can help out with the artwork for the poster, please drop us a line. Best wishes, Sarah Gibb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 17:51:09 -0500 From: Subject: calling mr. kratzman... As much as I love Joni (more than ever with the release of T'LOG), might I suggest that, beginning with WTRF, she has written some lyrics unworthy of her great talent? Am I allowed to be cheeky? Will I be attacked for this? No matter; here goes. WTRF It's really the production that drives me crazy on this record (Joni is BURIED), but this lyric from MAN TO MAN makes me shudder: "I was scared / I thought / Oh--I hope he can care-- / I sure hope I can care / I hope we can really care / And share woman to man." This from a woman who wrote: "Now I am surf rising / Now parched ribs of sand at his side" ??? The less said about SOLID LOVE and UNDERNEATH the better. Thank God for CHINESE, WTRF, MOON, LOVE. DED Though I think the THREE GREAT is a flawed masterpiece (again, the production), this drives me mad: "Artifice, brutality and innocence / Artifice and innocence." Huh? What happened to "brutality"? FICTION and TAX FREE: Cliche after cliche after cliche. ETHIOPIA: Unfortunately marred by "Famine phantoms at the garden gate." My problem with DED overall is that Joni is often writing GENERALLY -- when her great strength is writing SPECIFICS. You know? And I want to yell: "Get off the couch, Joni, turn off the boob tube and get out there in the world. You're not OBSERVING." Plus, I really miss her descriptions of the natural world--always so beautiful. Thank God for IMPOSSIBLE (but lose the synth, please) and LUCKY GIRL. CMIARS NUMBER ONE, SNAKES AND LADDERS (which I actually like), REOCCURING: Been there, done that. TEA LEAF: Such a lovely story; such a nothing melody. Shame. Thank God for MY SECRET PLACE, BLACK WINGS and A BIRD. NRH WINDFALL: Beneath you, Joni. I thought you didn't want to bore us with songs about "rich people's problems." COME IN: Too wordy by half; uninteresting melody. Thank God for: NRH, PASSION PLAY, CHEROKEE, SLOUCHING, NOTHING, TWO GREY ROOMS. TI There's only one thing that drives me up the wall, from BORDERLINE (which I find a bit of a bore, I'm afraid): "You snipe so steady / You snub so snide-- / So ripe and ready / To diminish and deride!" A little illiteration goes a long way. Thank God for: everything else! TTT LEAD BALLOON, TTT: Beneath you, my dear. NO APOLOGIES: Sorry, but doesn't hang together. HARLEM: Begs for one more verse! Thank God for LOVES PUTS ON, CRAZY CRIES (though I liked it better as LOVE'S CRIES), STAY IN TOUCH, FACE LIFT. There, I got that off my chest. Thanks for listening. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:07:15 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: "Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself" Fund << If anyone on the list can help with artwork, specifically the drawing of >the bench with her sitting on it, that would be fantastic. >> I have what I think would be a better idea, at least it's an idea on a more "grand" scale: Joni seated, playing a grand piano, with room on the piano bench for people to sit a minute with her. The statue-on-a-park-bench idea has been done to death. There's one in Boston with a former mayor and I know I have seen them in other cities. Joni deserves bigger and better. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 00:15:04 +0100 From: Christoffer Gudi Sommer-Gleerup Subject: Re: Goldie's "Carey" Bob wrote: > Joni seems to nail her own lyric pretty good, from my recollections But she does chose to vary them once in a while like in some of the reinterpretations on T'log. And I'm really liking to hear different versions of her songs which inspire me to be more "daring" when I sing her songs. The other day I met another Jonifan who, listening to my CD, said "that is the best version of Woodstock I've heard" thinking that it was Joni. I told her she should have her ears checked (which makes me think of Jack telling me the other day that I should have my eyes checked...I promise you, this guy I know looks excactly like George Clooney!). Christina, recovering from a sore throat but will be fit for fight at Jacks release party and following Jonifest...only 12 days to go!! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:29:41 -0500 From: "Erica L. Trudelle" Subject: Re: Passion Play Andrew wrote: Thanks to Bob and Erica for their input on Passion Play. Any more contributors? ( I had no idea it contained any biblical references at all! Never went to Sunday school...) :) I never have gone to Sunday school either, 99% of my biblical knowledge comes from years of Art History classes!!!:) Erica _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 19:02:58 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Drawing In a message dated 11/30/02 4:42:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, chuty001@hotmail.com writes: > For anyone interested here's a link to one of my drawings let me know what > you think. I'll leave it up for the week end. Thanks DF > > http://www.geocities.com/thatstrangesite/Drawing-Joni1-1.jpg > Wonderful drawing!!!!! I'm sure Joni would approve too. I like the name C.R. Straughan better than Dead Fred :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 19:21:04 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: "Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself" Fund I haven't been this excited since ...NEVER MIND! I will definitely be there for the unveiling ..WILL SHE.....that is the question...??????????????? Bree NP: covers 35 :) (thanks ..BOB) >I'm just wondering if this statue is going to become some sacred Mecca-like >pilgrimage we're all going to have to make. > >Bob, still missing yesterday's "Joni's smoking history"! ;~) > >NP: Joshua Redman, "I Had A King" _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 20:18:58 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: "Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself" Fund My Buddy Bob writes: > The statue-on-a-park-bench idea > has been done to death. How true! There are about 3 of them in my hometown. I think it would be a lot less money if they mass produced a "chia pet" of Joni's head from the DED days, planting seeds for that stack perm effect, plus we could all own one :~) (just kidding Joni, if you're catching up on digests......you deserve a bronze statue at the piano like Mr. Murphy said) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:31:51 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Today in Joni Smoking History: November 27 PRICELESS!! Thank you Bob! Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Murphycopy@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 11:34 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Today in Joni Smoking History: November 27 1952: Nine-year-old Roberta Joan Anderson buys her first pack of Pell Mell cigarettes and notices that the smoke looks like angel hair 1962: Becomes first Canadian woman ever unanimously voted Miss Winston/Salem 1967: Confused and unable to afford cigarettes, Joni accidentally marries Chuck Mitchell 1979: Presents Georgia O'Keefe with two cartons of Virginia Slims Menthol and a lovely cow skull ashtray 1983: Meets Lakota chief, extends thanks to all Native Americans for tobacco 1992: Accidentally puts out three cigarettes on greedy Guatemalan maid 1998: Tough California smoking ban takes effect, Joni blames record companies and all younger performers 2000: Booed off stage during finale of the Stop Smoking Now or Die/2000 benefit concert ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:52:41 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Drawing --- chuty001 wrote: > For anyone interested here's a link to one of my > drawings let me know what > you think. I'll leave it up for the week end. Thanks > DF > > http://www.geocities.com/thatstrangesite/Drawing-Joni1-1.jpg You *drew* that? I'm impressed! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:12:24 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: calling mr. kratzman... I can't possibly pass this one up. mtotzke wrote: she has written some lyrics unworthy of her great talent? First of all, how could that be, since she wrote them? MAN makes me shudder: > "I was scared / I thought / Oh--I hope he can care-- / > I sure hope I can care / I hope we can really care / And > share woman to man." > This from a woman who wrote: "Now I am surf rising / > Now parched ribs of sand at his side" ??? Sometimes the subtlety of words can be just as powerful as the convoluted ones, so to write. And if I know Joan, she meant them exactly the way that she wrote them. And remember--she thought "Oh, I hope he can care." Sounds pretty darn logical to me. I can almost feel the lack of breath in her voice (her mind) as she gasps. Now, if this woman or anyone else is having spontaneous thoughts such as the more complicated lyric, then I have to worry about that. > > DED > Though I think the THREE GREAT is a flawed > masterpiece (again, the production), this drives > me mad: "Artifice, brutality and innocence / > Artifice and innocence." Huh? What happened to > "brutality"? Yes, a masterpiece. From start to finish and flawed, I think not! I love the production. I love it!!!!!!!!!!!! > FICTION and TAX FREE: Cliche after cliche after cliche. Unbelievable. Is life not a cliche'? Are the daily events in which we live cliche'? Of course they are. Masterpieces? Oh, yes. How one mind could put those emotions on paper and then into music is astounding, incredible, fascinating, and unbelievable. I am simply awed each time I listen to them. They both evoke as much emotion in me as she has put there for me. Understanding, light, anger, fear, love?, hate, darkness, etc. It goes on and on and on. Driving into the soul, waking me up, letting me see. Damnit, Joan. I love you. > > ETHIOPIA: Unfortunately marred by "Famine > phantoms at the garden gate." > This piece is pure perfection. > My problem with DED overall is that Joni is > often writing GENERALLY -- when her > great strength is writing SPECIFICS. You > know? And I want to yell: "Get off the couch, > Joni, turn off the boob tube and get out there > in the world. You're not OBSERVING." Plus, > I really miss her descriptions of the natural > world--always so beautiful. This is absolutely absurd. Off of the boob tube? I must ascertain that it is you that is not observing. This album is visionary. Amazed at how it could be applied to now and it was written years ago, and it still fits. As for observation, I do believe you should do this, not Joni. 'fiction of the boob tube', she wrote. This album has even surpassed the big three, for me, from beginning to end. > > Thank God for IMPOSSIBLE (but lose > the synth, please) and LUCKY GIRL. Again, perfection. (impossible dreamer) and Lucky Girl is a fine tune, finely done. > > CMIARS The only problem I have with this album is that I simply cannot hear Joni. > NRH > WINDFALL: Beneath you, Joni. I thought you > didn't want to bore us with songs about > "rich people's problems." Could you do one ounce as well? This woman is a genius, musically, lyrically. Study would suit the issue as there is obviously great misunderstanding here. BORDERLINE > (which I find a bit of a bore, I'm > afraid): "You snipe so steady / You > snub so snide-- / So ripe and ready / > To diminish and deride!" A little > illiteration goes a long way. Again, are you kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!A lyric for the ages. mack ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:05:01 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Goldie's "Carey" In a message dated 11/30/2002 6:15:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, christi@dsr.kvl.dk writes: > But she does chose to vary them once in a while like in some of the > reinterpretations on T'log. Oh to be sure...I was talking specifically about "Matala Moon"...matter of fact I think the ONLY time she's sung 'he drank & womanized' on ROTR was on the record. Every live version I have has her singing 'a drunk with sages' eyes'. Anyway, she has a great history of revising her lyrics, which is cool thing #4,765 about her. > ..I promise you, this guy I know looks > excactly like George Clooney!). Lucky guy! I've been told I look like DeNiro, which I take as a compliment...:~) Bob NP: Dane van Nater, "Night Ride Home" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:12:36 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: calling mr. kratzman... Mack writes: > Sometimes the subtlety of words can be just as powerful as the convoluted > ones, so to write. And > if I know Joan, she meant them exactly the way that she wrote them. That's a good point, Mack...I mean, how about: "I made my baby cry, I made my baby say goodbye" That could be a Brill building lyric on some throwaway pop ditty, but we all know where it comes from & it's brilliant and heartbreaking. Sometimes there's an honesty in the simplicity that doesn't require a lot of verbal dressing. And I'm the first to admit that with HOSL/Hejira/DJRD she raised the bar so high that not even she can come near it, let alone anyone else. By the same token, the original post definitely had some "right on" comments regarding the songs from WTRF onward. Joni ain't flawless, and even she admits that she had a difficult time putting words on the Klein melodies because they were much more choppy than she was used to. Bob NP: Tom Rush, "Urge For Going" (live) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:39:11 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #533 - the 'late' Etta? And isn't the late, divine Etta J represented? Did I miss something? Did Etta die? Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:14:30 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Joni's 80s music I'm sure this has been talked to death on this list, but I just wanted to interject a few thoughts on Joni's much-maligned work in the '80s. First of all, I'll say that I'm thankful for any and all material by Joni Mitchell. Even if I don't love it all, I'm glad it exists. Her work in the '80s is controversial to most. Critics either ignored it or tore it to shreds - only a handful actually gave favourable reviews of Dog Eat Dog, for instance. Wild Things Run Fast and Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm fared much better. Even Joni has some misgivings about her 80s work: her difficulty with Thomas Dolby, some trouble with Klein's melodies, as Bob mentioned, and a general bitterness about "the decade of greed" that tainted much of her poetry. I've always said that Joni Mitchell and the 80s just didn't mix - at least thematically. But I think she proved herself to be an ingenius chameleon in the 80s. Contrast Dog Eat Dog with Blue and you will understand Joni's fearlessness in all artistic matters. She was never afraid to change. Wild Things Run Fast is my least favourite Joni Mitchell album, but not because it's an 80s album, only because I don't relate to it, personally. Nothing will ever change that fact - I just don't "feel" that album, and that's okay. Having said that, I can appreciate it from afar and see what she was going for. I'm not sure she achieved it, but it yielded some great individual tracks, the most wonderful being Chinese Cafe/Unchained Melody. Thank god for that song! Dog Eat Dog is growing on me. I hated it at first and thought it was a really shoddy album, overtly technological with lyrics that were slack, at best. But there is enormous subtlety and magic in some of those songs, in the music, in the voice, in the lyrics. Good Friends, Fiction, Dog Eat Dog and Ethiopia are brilliant, in my opinion. No one in the 80s examined the 80s quite so literally or so harshly. Most bands were too concerned with what hair colour to use and which method was best in shrinking their already skintight acid-washed jeans. So, in some ways, Dog Eat Dog was ahead of its time, albeit a little earnest in its drive to sound like a product of the 80s. Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm is a little difficult for me to grasp, rather like the actuality of the album title - - it fades away before I can really take it all in and process it. It's a little scattered, I think, but no less inspiring in parts. I love My Secret Place, Lakota, Cool Water, The Beat of Black Wings and A Bird That Whistles. She over did it a bit with the guest artists but if anything it goes to show she has the kind of clout to lure such diverse musicians as Peter Gabriel, Billy Idol and Willie Nelson her way. And, why not? The results were okay in most instances, excellent in others. Joni is no more perfect than you or I and she will produce, and has produced, some misfires. But the fact that she so courageously explores any genre with total devotion and abandon is the key to her greatness - or one of the keys, at least. She threw herself into her 80s work with as much focus as she did with Blue or Hejira or Court & Spark, it's just the end result may not have been what her fans expected or wanted. Too bad for the fans - Joni will do as she pleases and that's her right. It's up to us to keep up and make sense of it. Joni's work in the 80s - not fantastic, but oh-so fearless! - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #367 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)