From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #362 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, November 26 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 362 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #524 - smoking, singing, truth, etc. ["kakki" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing [Deb Messling ] RE: Joni never inhaled [Lazyasz@aol.com] Jonifest 2003 [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing ["Victor Johnson" ] T'log: A non-JMDLer's opinion ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Early Joni on TV [Ken ] Travelogue - Public Service Announcement [Merk54@aol.com] hejira ["Mark Connely" ] Travelogue advertised [Gertus@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing [Jenny Goodspeed ] RE: Joni never inhaled ["Maggie McNally" ] Travelogue from Sicily [] Travelogue Review Scotland On Sunday - Album Of The Week ["Moni Kellerman] Open Mike [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Mendoza & Blade [arid@geneva-link.ch] Re: Giving Vince Mendoza his due, part 1 of ?? was "wow, again." ["Jim L] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing [Catherine McKay ] Re: "Joni bewildered by plan....." [Les Irvin ] Travelogue - some first/second/third impressions [Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #524 - smoking, singing, truth, etc. Bryan, Now you are making me depressed! Why are you so sure it is all due to smoking? I know people who smoke as much as Joni who still have beautiful singing voices and I have a singer-songwriter friend who has never smoked, drank alcohol or done any other substances a day in his life who has lost his beautiful voice over the years and now slips into Tom Waits territory on occasion. There are so many other factors that can affect one's voice - illness, age, medication, etc. I just feel that blaming it all on smoking in Joni's case may be unfair to her when there is a lot of other evidence that there have been a number of other factors beyond her control which could have altered her voice. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 04:06:25 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Giving Vince Mendoza his due, part 1 of ?? was "wow, again." "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" writes: >In literature when an author gives human characteristics to an animal, >it's called anthropomorphism. Does anyone have a word for using instruments >to give sound to a thought? Yes, it's called "program [or 'programme'] music" -- music that tells a story or paints a picture -- as opposed to "absolute music" -- music written purely for its musical value. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:06:06 +0000 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: Travelodge Hi All you JMDlers.... Some brief thoughts for today are ; 1. Is there such a thing as good art? (an old philosophical question but it seems to be the root of a lot of discussion). Is all expression worthwhile no matter what the consequences. 2.How can I agree with Vince and Kakki...but I do 3. If Joni is against a "society of specialists", then it makes sense that she would 'particiapate' in many of the arts. Not as a (specialist) poet not as a painter but as a complete human being. 4. Is Joni 'better' at some things than others? I muse over these as rhetorical questions...you dont need to feel compelled to answer them...unless you can help. Gordon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 06:20:53 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing Could any singers on the list expound on this theory of improper vocal strain? It's something I've thought about as a possible cause for Joni's vocal problems, but I don't know anything about singing. For the record, I love the new album, but I do think the voice has deteriorated markedly even since BSN. Thin and dry, as some said. It reminds me of the voice on PWWAM. After that show, she rebounded (IMO), so maybe her voice comes and goes. At 09:37 PM 11/25/02 -0800, you wrote: > medical reasons for the change in her voice. I will agree >smoking is part of it but not all of it, no way. I still go with improper >vocal strain in her younger days - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/02 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 03:28:54 -0800 From: "RSM" Subject: LA Times Review of T'log [short and sweet] Here is Robert Hilburn's brief take on T'log from the Los Angeles Times: Joni Mitchell "Travelogue" * * * [three out of four starts] Nonesuch The superb singer-songwriter shows us another side of her music in this two-disc set by revisiting some of her older tunes (including "For the Roses" and "Amelia") and more recent ones with the help of a 70-member orchestra and 20-voice choir. The added weight of the arrangements makes some of the tracks feel strained, but the overall effect is liberating and revealing. - -- Robert Hilburn http://www.calendarlive.com/music/pop/cl-ca-rack24nov24,0,2159069.story?coll =cl%2Dpop ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 07:10:01 EST From: Lazyasz@aol.com Subject: RE: Joni never inhaled Ummm...are we listening to the same Travelogue. Listen to YDFT or Slouching and you can easily her Joni taking her breaths. Damien Has anyone else noticed that all the breaths (inhalations) have been deleted from T'log? As an advertising copywriter, this is something I've done many times while mixing final voice for mostly older actors or voice-over talent who sort of wheeze or rattle during inhalation. I've never noticed it having been done in music, although I'm sure this isn't a first. Hack, hack. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 07:35:12 EST From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Jonifest 2003 For those of you planning on coming to Jonifest from outside the US, Paypal is now accepting multiple currencies, including Canadian Dollars (C$), Euros ( b,), Pounds Sterling (B#), and Japanese Yen (B%). Hopefully, this will make it easier for some of you. Go to: www.jonifest.com for more info. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:30:10 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing Mack writes: << Sad, but obviously true, that the anti-smoking agenda has even reached here. >> Artists who have died of heroin overdoses don't get the level of criticism for their habits that Joni gets for her nicotine addiction. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 9:4:40 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing > Artists who have died of heroin overdoses don't get the level of criticism > for their habits that Joni gets for her nicotine addiction. Jerry should really kick off that heroin addiction. I'll bet he's still shooting up. His voice would sound so much better if he would just quit. Victor in Asheville - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 06:44:24 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Sunday November 24, 2002 The Music Report Philadelphia Inquirer Tom Moon's review of Travelogue two stars On her 2000 tour, Joni Mitchell proved that her famously wind-swept melodies and torrential images could survive in an orchestral setting, with portentous oboes and strings swirling around her voice like gnats, and lines that had once been improvised incorporated into the score. The odd two-disc retrospective Travelogue, which includes a booklet with reproductions of Mitchell's striking paintings, is the studio version. It surrounds Mitchell with top-shelf talent - arranger Vince Mendoza, pianist Herbie Hancock, drummer Brian Blade, soprano saxophonist Wayne Shorter - and its art-house arrangements aim to expand the scope of such songs as "Trouble Child" and "Amelia". Doesn't happen though: It's the sense of immediacy, of a story unfolding before our eyes, that always made Mitchell such a riveting composer, and the minute she has to play chanteuse, she's just reading the lines. Still, there are glimmers of brilliance - the shuffling "You Dream Flat Tires" and the gorgeous landscape "Hejira". - -Tom Moon **************************************************************** ****please note, the above "opinions" are not mine!****makes me wonder if he even listened to the whole thing. You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:52:33 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Scott price! What a great post on T'log..I thoroughly enjoyed it! Along with others, I hope Joni would somehow read your words? With many of my sentiments ..but I could not have expressed it so beautifully. Thanks for sharing! Bree (T'log fast becoming in the top five of my all-time favorite Joni) _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 07:41:12 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: T'log: A non-JMDLer's opinion Began listening to T'log on Saturday evening with Mary, who has been a Joni fan since high school (graduating in 1975). We weren't even halfway through Disk 1 when Mary proclaimed, "I LOVE her voice now." And later: "I think this may be the best thing Joni has ever done." So ... there!! Lori ~ http://lrfye.lunarpages.com ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:44:17 -0500 From: Ken Subject: Re: Early Joni on TV Thanks for this. It's listed as 9pm Eastern Time. Rick and Susan wrote: >Heads up, Canadian Listers! >CMT, the Canadian Country Music Station, (although they are branching out >from playing only country) is running a program this week (they're calling >it Bellbottom Week) which features half-hour BBC TV concerts recorded in the >early 70's. Tonight they featured James Taylor (I was spell-bound through >the whole thing), tomorrow is Neil Young, Wednesday is Elton John, and >Thursday is Joni. > >It's on at 6 p.m. Pacific Time with a repeat at 10 p.m. >(Which means if any eastern JT fans are still awake you can catch his >concert tonight.) > >Rick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:02:16 -0500 From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Travelogue - Public Service Announcement Travelogue... Play it often... Play it loud! This public service announcement has been brought to you by CBAT - the Citizens for a Better Appreciation of Travelogue. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:15:38 -0800 From: "Mark Connely" Subject: hejira The zoomy strings on T'logue's Hejira work so well! It is "now" in the way the original was "now", then. If you know what I mean. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:33:04 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Travelogue advertised I'm impressed. Nonesuch have placed decent sized adverts for T'log in the UK national press today including reference to their website for samples. Let's hope they can shift some copies. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:36:22 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing You can do permanent damage to your voice if you use it improperly over a period of time - you could be straining while singing - but you could even cause damage if you use your talking voice improperly. Also frequent persistant coughing or clearing of the throat over time can cause damage. Kakki - is it you who said Joni had throat surgery? Do you know what it was for? On Joni's early recordings, I do not hear any vocal strain - her high notes are light and in her head voice where they should be. Performing live in large venues is a whole different ball game, though, and it's possible she did some damage in that way. But, I have no idea if that is the case. Jenny - --- Deb Messling wrote: > Could any singers on the list expound on this theory > of improper vocal > strain? It's something I've thought about as a > possible cause for Joni's > vocal problems, but I don't know anything about > singing. > > For the record, I love the new album, but I do think > the voice has > deteriorated markedly even since BSN. Thin and dry, > as some said. It > reminds me of the voice on PWWAM. After that show, > she rebounded (IMO), so > maybe her voice comes and goes. > > > > At 09:37 PM 11/25/02 -0800, you wrote: > > medical reasons for the change in her voice. I > will agree > >smoking is part of it but not all of it, no way. I > still go with improper > >vocal strain in her younger days > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Deb Messling -^..^- > messling@enter.net > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system > (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release > Date: 11/13/02 Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:16:17 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing Jenny wrote: > Kakki - is it you who said Joni had throat surgery? > Do you know what it was for? I think she had some kind of polyps in her throat. She told a story about it at the PWWAM taping. I'll see if I can find some cites to it later. > On Joni's early recordings, I do not hear any vocal > strain - her high notes are light and in her head > voice where they should be. Performing live in large > venues is a whole different ball game, though, and > it's possible she did some damage in that way. But, I > have no idea if that is the case. I have no idea, either, it's just a theory. I would also think that the strain and wear and tear would have come from performing live on so many tours. To my ears, her voice changed markedly starting as far back as the time from Court and Spark to Hissing. I knew a girl in high school who was training to be an opera singer. Because of improper training (according our music teacher at school) she suffered almost permanent damage to her voice while still a teenager and her aspirations for a singing career were over. He used to tell us about this as a cautionary tale in choosing vocal coaches. There is also the hormonal aspect - I've read how hormones affect the vocal chords of some women as they age. Not that they make the voice deeper - but there is some kind of shortening or other physiological affect on the vocal chords. There was also an interview with Linda Thompson posted here a few months back that spoke of her almost complete loss of voice from just that which has now been resolved by botox injections. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:04:02 -0000 From: "William" Subject: First's Travelogue From First Travel's daily newspaper 'METRO' CD Joni Mitchell: Travelogue **** Nonesuch This is a kind of best-of double album, but given Joni Mitchell's willingness to pad off down different musical paths at any opportunity, the title is appropriate. From the ever-wonderful Woodstock (its innate drama greatly benefitting from the 70-piece orchestra Mitchell has used for these re-recordings) to the delicate pluck of Be Cool, this is vintage Joni. Fans might yearn for new material (there hasn't been any since 1998), but apart from the moments when that huge band threatens to swamp Mitchell's expressive voice, this is a great compilation. Nina Caplan WtS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:47:37 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing There is also the hormonal aspect - I've read how hormones affect the vocal chords of some women as they age. Not that they make the voice deeper - but there is some kind of shortening or other physiological affect on the vocal chords. There was also an interview with Linda Thompson posted here a few months back that spoke of her almost complete loss of voice from just that which has now been resolved by botox injections> I would say this is definitely one of many factors in Joni's voice change. I have heard Joan Baez mention on a couple of occasions that she had to see a voice teacher and learn to sing all over again when she hit menopause. Jenny Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:52:05 +0000 From: "Mickey Morose" Subject: [none] Hi This is my first posting, my name's Mike and I live in england. I'd been reading the posts for a while but thought I'd wait until I had something m,eaningful to say about travelogue but - guess what - it still hasn't arrived. I'm grateful to whoever it ws on the list gave a link to cd-wow as the price of #12.99 seems unbeatable, but I've just had a message from them that they're out of stock and promising delivery within a few days. In a perverse way, I'm quite pleased they're out of stock as it might mean that a lot of peeople are ordering and to me not enough people appreciate enough about Joni and, like her, I get pretty pissed off with people talking about her as, for example, "one of the best female singer-songwriters". I mean, really!!! So I'm still listening at the moment to my one-disc cd of Shadows and Light - - what a bargain that was and incredibly underrated imho - fantastic versions of Amelia and Hejira from my favourite Joni album and the Mingus cuts sounding much warmer and "better" imo than on the original. My forst Joni album, purchased on its release when I was 17 (gave my age away there) was For The Roses which I still think is right up with her best, but for me her most under-rated album is Hissing of Summer Lawns, which absolutely blew me away when I first heard it and still has the capacity to surprise and shock and give new meanings almost every time I hear it. I did start to listen to the Nonesuch files of travelogue on the internet, but I was disapointed with the quality so gave up after Dawntreader, which sounded leaden and jaded to be honest so thought I'd wait for the actual cd wehich I'm sure won't sound so compressed and weedy (at least I hope not) I gather that most of you weren't very impressed with BSN but I love it - I can't get past Answer Me and A Case of You without crying, and while A Case of You is obviously great on Blue as well I actually prefer it in the context of BSN. Anyway, I'll let you know what I think of travelogue when (eventually) I get it. I had been hoping that Song for Sharon would be on it - I love everything about that song and think it would have fitted the theme and mood perfectly - but never mind, there's plenty else to enjoy and I'm particularly looking forward to Sire of Sorrow - my favourite 90's Joni song at the moment, and I'm interested in hearing the male antagonists mentioned and how these add to the song. Best of everything to everyone. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:07:26 -0500 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: Joni never inhaled Bob, I couldn't disagree more. When I listened to it Friday night - start to finish, both discs - I listened not only in the dark (candlelight, Kate), but with headphones on. I was struck by the sound of her breathing in, found it painful to listen to. Don't get me wrong, I love her voice, don't fault the range, love the warmth and what she is doing with it, but I struggled for air when I listened to the way she sucked in the oxygen. My solution was to promise myself NOT to listen on headphones again. Will you eliminate the wheeze/rattle that this here middle-aged woman has when sucking in air while recording her voice-mail message at work, please? Thank you. Maggie > -----Original Message----- > From: Murphycopy@aol.com [mailto:Murphycopy@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:50 AM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Joni never inhaled > > > Has anyone else noticed that all the breaths (inhalations) > have been deleted > from T'log? As an advertising copywriter, this is something > I've done many > times while mixing final voice for mostly older actors or > voice-over talent > who sort of wheeze or rattle during inhalation. I've never > noticed it having > been done in music, although I'm sure this isn't a first. > > Hack, hack. > > --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:07:46 +0100 From: Subject: Travelogue from Sicily Dear friends, here is Travelogue arrived in Italy and in the little island of Sicily where I live in. I've listened the disc one and two into my car while a storm clouded my eyes. Little by little a light to make one'way through the darkness and the loneliness. It is so sweet. Angela ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:09:52 +0100 From: "Moni Kellermann" Subject: Travelogue Review Scotland On Sunday - Album Of The Week Source: http://www.scotlandonsunday.com/thereview.cfm?id=1307392002 ALBUM OF THE WEEK: Travelogue by Joni Mitchell Nonesuch 7559798172, #19.99 On tribute albums we marvel at those who reinterpret the work of the artist and mutter unpleasantries about the ones who slavishly clone the original. Joni Mitchell has wisely decided to save them all the bother and reinterpret herself , and what a wonderful job she has made of it. This has the sweep of Hollywood's golden era, with 'Slouching Towards Bethlehem' and 'The Sire Of Sorrow' more blinding than hitching down the road to Damascus. 'Hejira' was made for this kind of treatment, but the double album set's finest moments are probably the creative reworking of even more familiar songs such as 'Woodstock', 'The Last Time I Saw Richard' and 'The Circle Game'. The former is transformed from a eulogy to the last great act of 60s hippiedom into something more of a social documentation, blessed with musical hindsight. Another song that seems to have been subconsciously screaming out for this treatment is 'Sex Kills', which comes over all horny and on the prowl. Travelogue may symbolise journeying the length and breadth of Mitchell's career, but it also takes the listener past vistas never usually seen on the conventional pop and rock routes. And it is first class all the way. COLIN SOMERVILLE ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:13:54 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Open Mike Mike says: > I > gather that most of you weren't very impressed with BSN but > I love it Welcome, Mike! If you love BSN, then grab a hold of your socks because you're gonna be knocked ass over appetite by T'log! Of the good things I have to say about it, the main thing is how much of an improvement it is over BSN, which now sits unlistened to and retired on my shelf. And you're right about S&L...one of my favorite live recordings by anyone ever. But you only have the abridged single disc issue? Get thee to a shop, lad! (Although I guess I shouldn't call you "lad", having done the math you've got 2 years on me!) ;~) Anyway, hope you get T'log in your hands (and your ears) soon! Let us know what you think... Bob NP: Cheap Trick, "How Are You?" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 22:30:38 +0100 From: arid@geneva-link.ch Subject: Mendoza & Blade Just to let you all know : About two weeks ago I bought the new Charlie Haden CD called American Dreams, with Michael Brecker as the main soloist, + Brad Meldau & Brian Blade. There's also a string orchestra, and two of the tunes were arranged and directed (and one of them composed) by Vince Mendoza. Nice CD, some of you may like it ! Alain ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:49:25 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Giving Vince Mendoza his due, part 1 of ?? was "wow, again." Thanks, Fred. The other day you hinted that you think Mister Mendoza did some interesting things for TRAVELOGUE. Others have problems with the 'liscence' he took, creating "program music" rather than a reserved supporting score, implying that he created something akin to incidental music in a movie score (like using a slide whistle when Oliver and Hardy are doing slap stick). When you're ready, I'm keenly interested to know how this shakes down, in your brain, over time. Lama - --- FredNow@aol.com wrote: > "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" > writes: > > >In literature when an author gives human > characteristics to an animal, > >it's called anthropomorphism. Does anyone have a > word for using instruments > >to give sound to a thought? > > Yes, it's called "program [or 'programme'] music" -- > music that tells a story > or paints a picture -- as opposed to "absolute > music" -- music written purely > for its musical value. > > -Fred Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:56:42 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > Mack writes: > > << Sad, but obviously true, that the anti-smoking > agenda has even reached > here. >> > > Artists who have died of heroin overdoses don't get > the level of criticism > for their habits that Joni gets for her nicotine > addiction. > Kinda pointless. They're dead. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:40:54 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing As we know - Everything comes and goes ... That said, I do believe everything - everyone has suggested has played a part in changing Joni's voice. I am a smoker and I do make some attempts at singing. I have always been a light smoker - until more recently - and with that my voice goes - it's real simple SMOKING PLAYS A PART. Now for the most part I am enjoying Joni's altered voice, I loved the old one as well. The part i don't like is the short hissing or weezing on a syllable, when it appears, she has the idea to take the note somewhere else or that she lacks some strength or power. Medication plays a part - age - so the one thing she could fix - IF she cared to would be the smoking. And again a voice coach, could also show her how to use what she's got, NOT TO TEACH HER HOW TO SING. They help with breathing and emitting as well. And finally Deb those highs she used to hit were awfully high even for her. So I would guess that vocal strain would probably be another factor in her altered voice. Funny early in life it's an exercise - later it's a strain! Just my 2 cents. See ya later must go get cigarettes! Peace, Susan NPIMH: k.d. Lang/Down ToMy Last Cigarette - --- Deb Messling wrote: > Could any singers on the list expound on this theory of improper vocal > strain? It's something I've thought about as a possible cause for Joni's > vocal problems, but I don't know anything about singing. > > For the record, I love the new album, but I do think the voice has > deteriorated markedly even since BSN. Thin and dry, as some said. It > reminds me of the voice on PWWAM. After that show, she rebounded (IMO), so > maybe her voice comes and goes. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:50:26 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] happy birthday jenny Happy Birthday Jenny! All the best to you in the coming year - it's been great meeting you this year. Here comes Jonifest - before you know it - see you there! Get that guy to give you T'log NOW! I only wish you were getting OLDER than - 33? GULP! Those were the days - enjoy them Jenny. And keep on singing! Peace, Susan Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:05:59 -0800 From: frasere@intergate.ca Subject: "Joni bewildered by plan....." From today's Vancouver Sun: "Joni Mitchell bewildered by plan for a statue of her" Saskatoon: Joni Mitchell had yet to eat breakfast and shake the sleep from her head, but her humour and humility were thoroughly intact about the idea of a statue in Saskatoon's downtown to honour her. "I guess it would be a good place for birds to perch," she said. Mitchell was in the city for the weekend to spend time with her mother, Myrtle Anderson. Mitchell was raised in the city and got her musical start playing in coffee shops along funky Broadway Avenue. When asked about the statue idea, which went to city council in a letter last week, Mitchell teetered between being grateful and bewildered. "It's just such a strange question to be woken up to," she said. "It would be a true honour. It really would. But is this not something usually done post- mortem?" She succumbed to a moment of quiet vanity at the thought of what the statue could look like. "I would hope it could be a decent likeness," she said. "My face caricaturizes easily. I can tell from my fan drawings." The idea of a statue of the multi-talented artist was actually raised by a British Columbia man. Mark Salzl wrote to Saskatoon's city council about the possibility of commissioning the statue. He has been a Mitchell fan for many years and thought it only fitting the city recognize and celebrate her achievements. "She is surely one of the most famous daughters of the city. The city is even the subject of some of her songs," Salzl wrote. It is also the subject of her artwork. The Delta Bessborough Hotel appears in the background of her 1969 album cover for CLOUDS. Mitchell is in the foreground holding a prairie lily, Saskatchewan's official flower. "She's got stacks of trophies and awards," said Anderson. "But it's always nice to be recognized by your hometown." Best regards, Stephen in Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:05:39 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing Voice coaches say that talking the 'wrong' way can be a major strain on the voice. Late into her career, Stevie Nicks had to learn not to talk in a gruff voice because it was ruining her singing voice, which is now better than ever. Besides coughing and throat clearing, (as Jenny said), they also say don't smoke. There is no way you can continually pull dry smoke across your vocal cords and not have it effect your voice. RR Jenny Goodspeed wrote: > You can do permanent damage to your voice if you use > it improperly over a period of time - you could be > straining while singing - but you could even cause > damage if you use your talking voice improperly. Also > frequent persistant coughing or clearing of the throat > over time can cause damage. > > --- Deb Messling wrote: > > Could any singers on the list expound on this theory > > of improper vocal > > strain? It's something I've thought about as a > > possible cause for Joni's > > vocal problems, but I don't know anything about > > singing. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:19:02 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: "Joni bewildered by plan....." Stephen writes: > When asked about the statue idea, which went to city council in a letter > last > week, Mitchell teetered between being grateful and bewildered. > > I'm surprised she didn't say: "I am not some stone commission Like a statue in a park" Come in from the cold honey :~) Anyway, I hope they do a statue of her. She deserves it!!! Jimmy Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:34:54 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Travelogue - finally! I headed up Bank Street to the HMV on the corner of Sparks and there she was, two full rows of Joni looking longingly, sensually, out from her dark canvas at the passers by. The place was packed with noon-hour Christmas shoppers and a few of the albums had been snapped up already. I hastily grabbed my copy; $35.99 seemed more than worth it to me. The guy at the cash seemed happy I was buying it: "It's great," he said. "You'll love it." He was only about 28, three years my senior, and it pleased me to intereact with someone else my age, only briefly, who had affection for Joni. I rushed home, after stopping to get a few things at the grocery store, and tore open the package... Astounding! This is by far the most beautiful package design I've ever seen for a CD, excluding special editions, which always tend to be a little more glamourous. But this was exquisite. I gave it the attention it deserved, not playing the album until I had thoroughly scoured the contents of the design. I love the outer casing containing the CD booklet and the lyric booklet - it's like opening a little treasure trove, which I'm sure is the idea. The paintings within are incredible. They are so beautiful. They actually evoke a kind of subconscious soundtrack in and of themselves and their relevance to the album is subtle yet clear. When I saw Joni's palms with the golden eggs, that famous passage from For The Roses sprung to mind: "They toss around your latest golden egg/Speculation/Well, who's to know if the next one in the nest will glitter for them so." And we've been tossing around this golden egg for a week now with very mixed ideas about how well it glitters in the nest. My favourite painting is the cover portrait. Upon closer inspection it is extremely sensual and sexy, and this is coming from a man who is not attracted to women. The parted lips, the bedroom eyes, the shine of blond hair, the plume of smoke framing her face and the glisten of an earing. God, I wanted to kiss her! Joni's vanity is put to excellent use on that portrait - it's ghostly, haunting and so evocative. I'd love to see the "inverse" paintings all in a line, in a gallery. From the World Trade Centre to Osama, the bible in hand to the American flag, one after the other. Spectacular. My boyfriend and I pondered over these ones for a good 20 minutes, absorbing every detail. I also loved the very fractured photos of Joni's garden and her little puppy, the odd inclusion of her hand with a paint brush or a wayward foot stepping out onto the patio. She's the best. She is just the best. I'm not sure what else to say except that the presentation of this album is so classy and timeless. I may end up buying another copy of this album sometime down the road for posterity. Keep it safe for my little nephew to one day pass on to his children, etc. Stay tuned for my impressions of THE MUSIC, if you're interested. I need the night to absorb it all and probably won't post my opinions until tomorrow morning. I'm very excited about listening to this! love, Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:47:51 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: "Joni bewildered by plan....." This expanded article appeared in the Regina Leader-Post today as well: - ------------------------ Mitchell bewildered by effort to honour her with statue by Darren Bernhardt Regina Leader-Post November 26, 2002 SASKATOON -- Joni Mitchell had yet to eat breakfast and shake the sleep from her head but her humour and humility were thoroughly intact about the idea of a statue honouring her in downtown Saskatoon. "I guess it would be a good place for birds to perch," she remarked. Mitchell was in Saskatoon for the weekend, spending time with her mother, Myrtle Anderson, before jetting back to Los Angeles on Monday. When asked about the idea, which went to council as correspondence last week, Mitchell teetered between being grateful and bewildered. "It's just such a strange question to be woken up to," she said. "It would be a true honour, it really would. But is this not something usually done post-mortem? "If I am alive to see it happen, I would hope it could be a decent likeness. I get all sorts of artwork done by fans and it can get pretty distorted in the proportions. ... My face caricaturizes easily. I can tell from my fan drawings." The idea of a statue of the multi-talented artist -- painter, poet, singer, songwriter and producer -- was actually raised by a British Columbia man. Mark Salzl wrote to Saskatoon's city council about the possibility of commissioning the statue. A fan of Mitchell's for many years. Salzl thought it only fitting the city recognize and celebrate her achievements as others already have. She has been inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, is listed No. 5 on VH1's list of "The 100 Greatest Women of Rock and Roll" and was given the Order of Canada earlier this year, the nation's highest honour for lifetime achievement. "She is surely one of the most famous daughters of the city. The city is even the subject of some of her songs," Salzl wrote. It is also the subject of her artwork. The Delta Bessborough appears in the background of her 1969 album cover for Clouds. Mitchell is in the foreground holding a prairie lily (the province's official flower) as the South Saskatchewan River reflects a stunning crimson sunset. "She's got stacks of trophies and awards," said Anderson. "But it's always nice to be recognized by your hometown." Mitchell admits her love affair with Saskatoon continues -- from visiting frequently to choosing the Mendel Art Gallery in 2000 for her art show. "I think it shows how much I'm in love with this town and think about it even when I'm not here," she said. Salzl believes the city should indicate the feeling is mutual. "It's worldly for a small Prairie city to have a statue of Gandhi but it has overlooked its own. I think it is incumbent upon City Hall to include the honouring of these famous and influential people in their yearly business," he said. The city does not have a program for commissioning artwork. Sculptures are donated through a sponsorship group. The Gandhi bust was donated by the Government of India by way of the India Consulate in Vancouver and a local India cultural group. The Denny Carr statue was made possible through fundraising efforts by his friends and family. "What we suggested to him (Salzl) is to find private sponsorship," said John Penner, the city's urban design coordinator. Salzl is determined to take up the effort another way, even without the city's assistance. "If all else fails, I was thinking of getting an existing group to take up the charge. If that wasn't possible, I'll try to start some sort of group to get this done," he said. From Paradise Hill, 75 kilometres northeast of Lloydminster, Salzl was educated at SIAST in Saskatoon. "Saskatoon is my 'home' city and I would like to return there to work or retire," he said. Admitting to feeling a little uncomfortable with the idea of her image being set upon a pedestal, a statue gives a sense of being monumental, something contrary to her nature. "I really liked playing in small clubs where the platform wasn't very high so you could step down and fraternize," Mitchell said. "And I feel that way when I come home to Saskatoon since the art show. There's a greater comfortability because I think people think of me more as a local and less exotic. ..." Mitchell suggested "something more functional" like a bench. One end could be her seated figure "with room to sit beside it." "If the statue is about me, it's about the essence of music and poetry coming from this town -- and painting. But rather than strap a guitar on there or have a handful of paintbrushes, maybe there's another way to make it more contemplative," she said. "Somewhere people could sit and muse. "And then I could come and sit there and when someone asks how I feel about it I can honestly say, 'I'm beside myself'." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:54:28 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Travelogue - some first/second/third impressions I had already heard and played a number of times the pieces from the Nonesuch site and those that another lister (I think?) posted. This album needs to be heard at least two or three times to come together. First impressions can be misleading. I've gone back and forth between thinking, "Yuck!" and "Holy crap, this thing is sublime!" My initial reaction to some of the songs was, fer Chrissakes, willya lay off the cigarettes? You sound like you've got emphysema! But of course, all that has now been said. Let's not talk about smoking now. I haven't heard the whole disc yet. Those songs I have heard are all songs I already heard from the downloads. The CD versions are, of course, better than the downloaded ones (I did burn a CDR of the ones I was able to copy from that tripod site and they weren't bad at all.) Here's a few impressions from my point-a-view. Flat Tires - well, hey, this is the song as it should have been done. I didn't care much for it on WTRF, but this one is great. Kind of like Peggy Lee, after she lost the little-girl sound, but before she became so laid-back as to be semi-comatose. This one swings, baby. Love that funk organ. Give me more! Slouching toward Bethlehem - lots of forward motion and dynamic sound in this. Stunningly arranged, this one. Lots of "beasty" noises from the orchestra, like elephant trumpetings and lions-and-tigers-and-bears (oh my!) growling and roaring. Sounds like the rough beast is moving relentlessly toward you, and past you and then on away from you. Think Juggernaut. Think big-budget bible movies, or Liz Taylor as Cleopatra. Crowd scenes, animals, all that stuff. Think the circus is coming to town as interpreted by Stephen King. (Mwa-ha-ha - the circus of eeeevil!) Be glad it didn't stop to eat you on its way through town to bigger things. The Last Time I Saw Richard - feels like Joni is speaking right in your ear. Wow - how LOW can you GO? Otis and Marlena - timeless and timely. (Small digression here - I always thought Otis would look like Abner Kravitz from the "Bewitched" TV show for some reason; and Marlena would be a tall blonde leggy woman with a big hat and dark glasses, maybe an ex-beauty-queen or wannabe. Kind of like Joni but more princess-y - one of those women who just *has* to have the latest everything.) Back to the CD track though - does the original DJRD version have that clarinet or oboe or high sax tweedling "by the dawn's early light" at the end of it too? Must give it a listen. Cherokee Louise - well, I think Joni captures a little-girl quality in the opening few lines; almost like she has become her younger self once again and remembers it like it just happened. One of the questions I would ask Joni if ever I met her would be, "So, why WERE the cops after Louise? Is it because she stabbed or attacked her foster father? (Jeez, I hope so!) or is it just because she ran away?" Has Joni ever said? This question has plague me ever since I heard the song. I'd also like to know what ever became of Louise; like is she OK?" More later. Maybe. Maybe not. TTFN. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:57:44 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: "Joni bewildered by plan....." --- Les Irvin wrote: > This expanded article appeared in the Regina > Leader-Post today as well: > ------------------------ > Mitchell bewildered by effort to honour her with > statue > by Darren Bernhardt > Regina Leader-Post November 26, 2002 > > Mitchell suggested "something more functional" like > a bench. One end could > be her seated figure "with room to sit beside it." > "If the statue is about me, it's about the essence > of music and poetry > coming from this town -- and painting. But rather > than strap a guitar on > there or have a handful of paintbrushes, maybe > there's another way to make > it more contemplative," she said. "Somewhere people > could sit and muse. > > "And then I could come and sit there and when > someone asks how I feel about > it I can honestly say, 'I'm beside myself'." Oh, that Joni - so funny and so practical! I love it! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 01:45:19 +0000 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: "judgement" vs. "judgment"; Franklin Shea's compliment; "Travelogue" (SJC) I. A list member questioned, "What's with the extra 'e' in 'judgment'?" Someone else said there isn't any, and it looks better with. Someone else says either is acceptable. Well, yes, but it depends on the circumstances. British English, to which Canadian English largely adheres, has "judgement" as either the preferred, or perhaps the only permissible, spelling. It appears that way in my New English Bible, New Testament, for instance. Dictionaries of American (U.S.A.) English show "judgment" first as the preferred spelling, and then, "judgement." The AP Stylebook and Liability Handbook shows "judgment" as THE spelling to use when writing copy for them, or newspapers which use their standards. Perhaps an exception would be allowed when quoting directly from another printed sources which uses two "e"s, or perhaps not: It requires the spelling of one of the major political parties in the United Kingdom as "Labor Party," even though, clearly, the proper name of this organization is "Labour Party." II. Thanks to Franklin Shea for his compliment on Saturday for my post a few days earlier about "imagery" as a defining mark of real poetry. III. I have a copy of "Travelogue," and I really like it --- some tracks better than others --- no surprise here. Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 21:44:06 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Travelogue - some first/second/third impressions In a message dated 11/26/2002 7:55:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, anima_rising@yahoo.ca writes: > Love that funk organ. Give me more! > Sorry, that's it. But ain't it nice while it lasts?! :~) Bob, trying to remember to say "I would have liked more Billy Preston" as opposed to "There should be more Billy Preston" ;~) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 21:46:53 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing Has Joni really toured that extensively to have her voice affected that much? Did Joni have a vocal teacher / coach? innocent questions ... Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of kakki Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:16 PM To: Jenny Goodspeed; messling@enter.net; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing Jenny wrote: > Kakki - is it you who said Joni had throat surgery? > Do you know what it was for? I think she had some kind of polyps in her throat. She told a story about it at the PWWAM taping. I'll see if I can find some cites to it later. > On Joni's early recordings, I do not hear any vocal > strain - her high notes are light and in her head > voice where they should be. Performing live in large > venues is a whole different ball game, though, and > it's possible she did some damage in that way. But, I > have no idea if that is the case. I have no idea, either, it's just a theory. I would also think that the strain and wear and tear would have come from performing live on so many tours. To my ears, her voice changed markedly starting as far back as the time from Court and Spark to Hissing. I knew a girl in high school who was training to be an opera singer. Because of improper training (according our music teacher at school) she suffered almost permanent damage to her voice while still a teenager and her aspirations for a singing career were over. He used to tell us about this as a cautionary tale in choosing vocal coaches. There is also the hormonal aspect - I've read how hormones affect the vocal chords of some women as they age. Not that they make the voice deeper - but there is some kind of shortening or other physiological affect on the vocal chords. There was also an interview with Linda Thompson posted here a few months back that spoke of her almost complete loss of voice from just that which has now been resolved by botox injections. Kakki ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #362 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)