From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #352 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, November 21 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 352 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in History: November 21 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Joni to stop recording. [Chorando6@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #351 [SAVtheWAVE@aol.com] The two eggs [Deb Messling ] guardian article - more than a rehash [Deb Messling ] Re: Travelogue - cost? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni to stop recording. [Jerry Notaro ] The Master is Back! ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #351 [Zachary Scot Johnson ] Travelogue Brainwashed [w evans ] paintings ["Mark Connely" ] travelogue - london evening standard [LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk] Okay I have to ask! How do we buy the paintings! ["Happy The Man" ] Re: Okay I have to ask! How do we buy the paintings! [Little Bird ] Canadian price of Travelogue [Little Bird ] Re: guardian article - more than a rehash [KJHSF@aol.com] made re dun dant ["J.David Sapp" ] Re: Okay I have to ask! How do we buy the paintings! [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: made re dun dant/now some Tlog thoughts, too [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: made re dun dant [FMYFL@aol.com] Re Paintings [Monafitz@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #507 - "Slut riding Osama" [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #505 - painting detail [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: Okay I have to ask! How do we buy the paintings! ["Lori Fye" ] guardian article ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Okay I have to ask! How do we buy the paintings! ["Happy The Man" ] now some Tlog thoughts, too ["patrick leader" ] Is Joni a poet? Nay. [johnirving ] Re: Okay I have to ask! How do we buy the paintings! [Catherine McKay ] Re: Travelogue WOW [Michael Paz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 03:13:04 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: November 21 1966: Chuck and Joni perform at the Second Fret in Philadelphia, wrapping up a six day engagement. 1970: Joni performed at London's Royal Festival Hall. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=431 1975: Joni, as part of the Rolling Thunder Revue with Dylan and others, performed twice today at the Boston Music Hall in Boston, Massachusetts - once in the afternoon and again in the evening. 1982: Joni married Larry Klein at Elliot Roberts' home in Malibu, California. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 05:17:26 EST From: Chorando6@aol.com Subject: Joni to stop recording. Dear all, anyone in the uk buy the Guardian today? G2 page 13 Joni mitchell Why I'm giving up singing! The article is based on an article in an American magazine called 'W' december issue. If anyone has more info and news or can get closer to the truth please reply to the list. As for the Guardian article the header is ' I'm quitting this corrupt cesspool ' . MMn makes you wonder (pursed lips, furrowed brow slitty eyes while rubbing chin). X Clive. (The article maybe available to read at the website: guardian.co.uk) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 06:10:47 EST From: SAVtheWAVE@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #351 In a message dated 11/21/02 3:00:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > Hi Joe, > > Nice to see you back again. > > I've looked at the placement of the paintings a few times now and have my > own conclusions about them. They make perfect and beautiful sense to me, > but maybe it is best for each individual to see them in their own meaning so > I hesitate from giving my own interpretation. That's what makes her so > amazing - the interpretations can be endless because she is so universal in > her art. > NIce to be out our lurkdom here, and I couldn't resist with Travelogue out. I have to agree, we all come to any art with our own interpretations, as a result of the history we all as individuals have, are so diverse. I also may have rushed into interpreting some of the paintings, as I discounted the fact that Joni is a Master of pointing out the duality of so much, but that's okay with me, as I have always enjoyed finding more and more in Joni's Art. I guess that is the timeless beauty of her Art as one can continue to revisit ( even some 30 years later) and find new meaning. I also like the thought that she is offering the Eggs to us in that painting. What we see in the Eggs is up to each and evey one of us for the reason that I stated above. Thanks for your response. Back to lurkdom. Joe )in Rhode Island ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:01:45 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: The two eggs As I was listening to Tlog for the second time yesterday, the linespopped out "They toss around your latest golden egg / speculation - well who's to know..." etc. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/02 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:15:10 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: guardian article - more than a rehash Folks at the Guardian actually did their own reporting, talking to Karen O'Brien, among others, about Joni's comments. The article is at http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,11710,844130,00.html and full text appears below. I found the comment about back catalogs and aging artists chilling indeed. 'I'm quitting this corrupt cesspool' Why Joni Mitchell has had it with the music business Dave Simpson Thursday November 21, 2002 The Guardian Joni Mitchell has often been called "the greatest ever female singer-songwriter", although she has been known to object to the use of the word "female". Many of her hits, including Big Yellow Taxi and Woodstock, are legendary; her albums, such as The Hissing of Summer Lawns, classics. After 35 years in the business, the original woman with a guitar is one of few artists on a par with Bob Dylan. She has inspired Madonna, Prince, and virtually every female singer-songwriter. Which makes it all the more surprising that she has decided to walk away. Talking in the December issue of America's W magazine, Mitchell insists that her new album, Travelogue, will be her last. Calling the music industry a "corrupt cesspool", the Canadian rages that: "I'm quitting because the business made itself so repugnant to me. Record companies are not looking for talent. They're looking for a look and a willingness to cooperate." The singer Kathryn Williams, one of several generations inspired by Mitchell, is distraught: "She made me want to be a singer-songwriter. When she turns around and says she's had enough, it's so disheartening for everyone else." Mitchell's raging against the machine is nothing new. As Karen O'Brien, author of Stars and Light, a biography of the singer, explains, Mitchell has threatened to quit before. This time, however, there's a difference. Following the W article, Mitchell stopped doing interviews. "That's a worrying sign," says the biographer. "Her songs are her babies and she always promotes them. So she could actually mean it." The singer's ire seems to have been provoked by a spat with her last label, Reprise. According to sources close to the singer, the company was reluctant to release Travelogue. Irked, Mitchell took it to Nonesuch, an artist-friendly label which, ironically, is backed by Warner, the conglomerate that owns Reprise. The company won't comment on the situation, but the row seems to have been the final straw in a three-decade-long battle between the music business and one of its greatest talents. Emerging from the hippy/folk scene in the 1960s, Mitchell was initially offered what she called "slave labour deals". However, as the value of her songwriting ability dawned on executives, her manager Elliot Roberts negotiated a landmark contract with Reprise (she has recorded for other labels in between). Though unknown at the time, Mitchell was given total artistic control. "She got the same deal with Asylum and Geffen," says O'Brien. "She's never even had a producer foisted on her - she always went into the studio without a producer. She's always had a lot more autonomy than any other artist." Despite this autonomy, Mitchell has long felt not just uncomfortable with the industry, but with her position within it. "For Joni it was always about creative control," says O'Brien. "But at some point it will always come down to the bottom line. Even when she was on David Geffen's label, money fractured their friendship. At some point some MD is going to say, 'When did we actually make some money out of Joni Mitchell? Oh, I remember, 1974.' I despise that attitude, but that's how they work." Mitchell has become expensive to have around. For Travelogue, she re-recorded old songs with the London Symphony Orchestra, Wayne Shorter and Herbie Hancock. Although they are friends of Mitchell's and may have given her a preferential rate, none of this would have come cheap. Furthermore, Mitchell's sales have never matched her influence and critical standing. Early in her career, she decided that pop hits were ephemeral, and set out to explore other avenues, as with her 1979 jazz album, Mingus. And it won't have delighted Reprise that Travelogue includes none of her hits. But just how much value does a label put on the creativity and credibility of a 20th-century giant like Mitchell? Until recently, the big labels wanted to keep artists such as Leonard Cohen, Van Morrison and Bob Dylan because, while they might not enjoy the sales of the latest pop phenomenon, having them around was good for respectability and clout. But times are changing. Execs have realised that if they have the back catalogue, they don't need the ageing artist. Warner's recent dropping of Rod Stewart was just as significant as EMI's reported #80m deal for Robbie Williams. In one of her last new songs, Lead Balloon, Mitchell describes meeting a corporate executive and opens with the words: "Kiss my arse!" She then talks specifically about running away from the music biz and the "whiny white kids on the radio", and "formula music, girly guile genuine junk food for juveniles". More recently, she had a widely reported pop at Madonna: "She has knocked the importance of talent out of the arena," sniped Mitchell. "She's made a lot of money and become the biggest star in the world by hiring the right people." "Joni's been quite unforgiving," admits O'Brien. "But then again, she'll rail against these 'women in rock' features and then appear in the next one in Rolling Stone. So there is that ambivalence." Similarly, while Mitchell berates Madonna and others' use of sexual imagery, she once appeared on the inner sleeve of The Hissing of Summer Lawns in a bikini. Her justification: "But I swim every day." "She's a very strong person and very sensitive," says Rob Dickins, her former chairman at Warner. "That's a great combination and a terrible one. There is an argument that she's done such a fine body of work, why should she put herself through a system geared to 15-year-olds? But if you have the creativity within you, it's very hard to stop it." It is possible that Mitchell's pronouncement is a Machiavellian way of drawing attention to Travelogue, but this seems unlikely. Dickins is particularly surprised at the timing: "Nonesuch is not a corporate label, and I would think that her experience there might be pleasurable enough for her to continue." In a recent interview in Rolling Stone, Mitchell was quoted as saying: "I'll be glad if the industry goes down the crapper." It's just possible that this final act of artistic defiance is her way of getting one hand on the flush. Whatever, the words of her biggest ever single suddenly seem resonant: "Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone? They paved paradise and put up a parking lot." 7 Travelogue is released on Monday by Nonesuch. Shadows and Light: Joni Mitchell, The Definitive Biography, by Karen O'Brien, is published by Virgin, price #7.99. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/02 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:32:49 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Travelogue - cost? In a message dated 11/21/2002 12:48:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: > How much is the album in the U.S., guys? Andrew, it was 'full-priced' at $28.99 at Circuit City, not too shabby considering that you get: 1. A lengthy lyrics/liner notes book 2. The main "book" which opens up & houses the cd's on both inside covers, with lots of paintings and selected appropriate text in between 3. All this fits in to a larger fiberboard case that fits on the shelf with the other Joni's. NOW, if I can just find somebody locally who puts it on sale for less than that, I can get 110% of the difference refunded by Circuit City. Not that I deem that necessary. All in all, I have to say the T is a pretty good value. Bob NP: Buckingham-Nicks, "Sorcerer" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:02:07 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni to stop recording. Chorando6@aol.com wrote: > Dear all, > > anyone in the uk buy the Guardian today? G2 page 13 Joni mitchell Why I'm > giving up singing! The article is based on an article in an American magazine > called 'W' december issue. If anyone has more info and news or can get closer > to the truth please reply to the list. As for the Guardian article the header > is ' I'm quitting this corrupt cesspool ' . She changed her mind already. Cynical Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:31:02 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: The Master is Back! The biggest "takeaway" point I get so far from "TRAVELOGUE" is that the Master is back. She's not throwing up mis-shapen, skewed letters in place of artwork (as she did for 'hits'.) Her creativity is very much intact. The fact that she hasn't recorded new songs doesn't matter. The painting is freakin' burgeoning. It lives. And that, is the best news in several years. Buzzing for days, Lama P.S. Listening to "TRAVELOGUE" at full volume at close range on the big stereo, it sounds a little like we are in the balcony, about 4 rows back. Joni's very close to the listener, at the lip of the balcony and the orchestra is much further away, below on stage. There's a close/far tension going on that I'm learning to love. Now that I've "found" that metaphor, that image to understand it, I really like it. Yahoo! Mail Plus  Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:32:55 -0800 (PST) From: Zachary Scot Johnson Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #351 Hi everyone, I have to come out of "lurkdom" to say that you guys are making it really hard to have to wait to get this CD! :) I mean that in a good way, of course. I'm a poor college student, so I have to wait to get this one and I knew it was going to be hard, but reading the good reviews and the comments on the packaging and everything else. I think it may just kill me. :) Anyways, glad to hear everyone's enjoying it and pleased beyond belief that Joni has retracted her statement that she was going to stop recording and loved the idea that she might write again. I also personally loved the "We can't all be bitches and hoes" comment. I've been trying to imagine her saying that since I read it. Too funny. Zach Yahoo! Mail Plus  Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:43:59 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: waiting... > I have to come out of "lurkdom" to say that you guys > are making it really hard to have to wait to get this > CD! :) I mean that in a good way, of course. I'm a > poor college student, so I have to wait to get this > one and I knew it was going to be hard, but reading > the good reviews and the comments on the packaging and > everything else. I think it may just kill me. :) Maybe we could form a support group for People Who Have to Wait to Purchase Travelogue. :~) Victor, a starving artist - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:07:36 -0500 (EST) From: w evans Subject: Travelogue Brainwashed What an incredible few days it has been listening to the two biggest releases of the year for me. Joni has given us a package that is itself a great work of art, and while it sounds like a summing-up I hope it isn't. Equally amazing for me is this other album that came out tuesday called Brainwashed, which any of us here who admire Joni's sense that the world is troubled and needs to be transcended should appreciate--- this is the most important collection of new songs, relevant messages for this world, by George Harrison, who is dead because of cigarettes. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:50:32 -0800 From: "Mark Connely" Subject: paintings Hi, new to the list here, looongtime joniphile. Just got Travelogue (at Borders, on sale, $28.99) "God Must Be A Boogieman".... YEEEOOOOW! All great stuff. I am intrigued by the paintings in the center of the booklet. The Bush painting... what's happening there? Is that a burning stick above his head? There is a bible story of god talking to satan about Joshua, asking satan: Is he not like a burning stick pulled from the fire?" And who is the sly old crone? And what's up with the slut riding Osama? Tell me, please. - -mc Persons who find themselves disenchanted with the whole system of situational obligations in society may seek out those places where reverie is likely to be tolerated. - --Erving Goffman ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:52:20 -0000 From: LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk Subject: travelogue - london evening standard The London Evening Standard has nominated Travelogue as CD of the week and given it a good review. Les (London and getting ready to munch on his words when his copy gets here sometime....next week, perhaps) Joni Mitchell Travelogue London Evening Standard - John Aizlewood - 21.11.2002 For all her critical kudos and her perennially dropable name, Joni Mitchell's sales have never eclipsed her influence. The 2CD Travelogue is an attempt to present Mitchell's back catalogue in a new light. Alongside a 70 piece orchestra and backing band including jazz stalwarts Herbie Hancock and Wayne Shorter, she has re-recorded a 22 song selection of her back catalogue, from 1968's The Dawntreader to a trio culled from 1992's Turbulent Indigo album. If Mitchell is hoping to introduce her work to a new audience, she will probably disappointed, for it remains too intricate, even by the standards of her acolytes Beth Orton and Fiona Apple. More crucially when Chinese Cafe seques into Unchained Melody, the difference in accessibility is startling. However, these songs, with their myriad musical and lyrical subtexts, are ideal for this format and, 70 pieces or not, thisis one restrained orchestra. Her voice glides over Slouching Towards Bethlehem and the acerbic Sex Kills, whilst an ominous funereal trudge through Woodstock gives her best known song a whole new death rattle-dimension. Of course, the exercise might be seen as merely a way of wringing a few more sales from songs which have never reached the wider world, but the introductory swell to Judgement of the Moon and Stars (Ludwig's Song) suggests in fact that Joni Mitchell has found her natural home, albeit a holiday one. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:09:40 -0600 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Okay I have to ask! How do we buy the paintings! I am looking at the art and seeing it hanging in my house. I sent a email to Joni's management but I have been off the list for a while and was wondering what you got to do to get info on her paintings and if she is selling them. Anyone know! Peace, Craig NP: Donny Osmond - "Don't Dream It's Over" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:17:21 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: paintings In a message dated 11/21/2002 12:50:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, hencon@sonic.net writes: > And who is the sly old crone? > And what's up with the slut riding Osama? > Tell me, please. Welcome to the group, Mark! As to your questions, your thoughts/interpretations/answers are as good as ours! Time was when we analyzed her SONGS... ;~) Bob NP: Buena Vista Social Club, "De Camino a La Vareda" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:22:22 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: Okay I have to ask! How do we buy the paintings! You're not alone on that one. My mother, who is not a fan of Joni's music, LOVES her artwork and would kill for one of her paintings -even a print. I have another friend, himself an artist, who cites Joni's artwork as an influence - he, again, does not like her music but is in love with her art. I read something a few years back where Joni was quoted as saying that it pains her greatly to part with her paintings and that selling them feels "dirty" to her. However, she has sold paintings in the past, although very few. She sold a few in Tokyo one year and some in London. Generally, though, I think she hesitates to sell them. You'd be looking at thousands and thousands of dollars for an original Joni Mitchell painting. I think she should make prints available, at the very least. There is very obvious interest in her art, world wide. - -Andrew Happy The Man wrote:I am looking at the art and seeing it hanging in my house. I sent a email to Joni's management but I have been off the list for a while and was wondering what you got to do to get info on her paintings and if she is selling them. Anyone know! Peace, Craig NP: Donny Osmond - "Don't Dream It's Over" Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:29:52 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Okay I have to ask! How do we buy the paintings! In a message dated 11/21/2002 1:22:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: > You'd be looking at thousands and thousands of dollars for an original Joni Mitchell painting. I think she should make prints available, at the very least. There is very obvious > interest in her art, world wide. Every once in while in a big blue moon, her artwork (originals and prints) pop up on EBay. But like Andrew says, get ready to hock that van and sell your kids into slavery if you want a Joni original! Does the Mendel Gallery in Saskatoon feature any prints of hers, since she had the exhibit there? Bob NP: Buena Vista..."Pueblo Nuevo" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:32:07 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: A pretty good deal! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=924045886 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:33:26 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Mitchell, Dulson and Klein >Today in History: November 21 >1982: Joni married Larry Klein at Elliot Roberts' home in Malibu, California. It is significant, of course, that this is LESS THAN A MONTH after Michele and I got married. I always figured Joni's handlers gave her the news that I was no longer available, and she said "Damn! I really wanted that guy. Guess I might as well marry Klein..." - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:35:52 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: Okay I have to ask! How do we buy the paintings! >Does the Mendel Gallery in Saskatoon feature any prints of hers, since she had the exhibit there?> Not that I'm aware of. I think the book of her prints is still available there. I've also seen copies of it in some Chapters stores here in Ottawa in very miscellaneous locations. I recall autographed prints being available during her tour with Dylan - both self portraits (TI and TTT) but they were only mounted on press board and didn't look like great quality prints. Besides that they were $300! The sale of her original artwork for the cover of The Hissing Of Summer Lawns went for something like $50,000 U.S. at auction a few years ago, did it not? - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:41:50 -0800 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: A pretty good deal! thanks, just bought it. later gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 10:32 AM Subject: A pretty good deal! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=924045886 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:58:56 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Canadian price of Travelogue I just found out the Canadian price: $39.95. Strangely enough, the man I spoke to on the phone told me that his records show it was due out the 19th in Canada but that they never received the shipments, as was the case with the stores I visited on Tuesday. Hmmmm.... - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:16:20 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: guardian article - more than a rehash In a message dated 11/21/2002 7:15:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, messling@enter.net writes: > Similarly, while Mitchell > berates Madonna and others' use of sexual imagery, she once appeared on the > inner sleeve of The Hissing of Summer Lawns in a bikini. Her justification: > "But I swim every day." > When Joni has appeared in what looks to be an overtly provocative manner, it's always been tied into theme of the project. The swimming shots are evocative of the entire suburban summer tone of Hissing--I don't believe they are intended to titillate. And therein lies the difference. Madonna intends to titillate! This was a a cool read-definitely much more than a rehash! Ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:34:46 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: made re dun dant As to the tattoo on the woman on Osama's shoulders. Synonyms for redundant are repetitive and superfluous. One interpretation is that in modern society exposed breasts have become superfluous in that they are seen in the media constantly and no longer hold the allure of suggestion. You know sex sells everything, peace, david NP: TLTISR, T'log - Joni's voice is AWESOME. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:36:05 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Okay I have to ask! How do we buy the paintings! A few years back when Wally B. from JoniMitchell.com was still with us, he emailed some of us to bid on one of Joni's painting. It was a small painting (14" X 14" I think). It was a painting of a bowl of fruit, and not a very good painting IMO. If I remember correctly, the highest bid was at $6,000., and it still didn't match the sellers minimum. So you better save some major bucks if you ever hope to obtain a Joni original (If she'll part with any) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:39:30 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: made re dun dant/now some Tlog thoughts, too In a message dated 11/21/2002 2:23:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, davidsapp@peoplepc.com writes: > One interpretation is > that in modern society exposed breasts have become superfluous I always say, "seen two, seen em all.." As I listen to Travelogue, I notice more and more that Joni is in fine voice for swingin'! Be Cool, Flat Tires, God Must Be A Boogie Man, these all come across so well and her vocal energy seems heightened, and not just because of the up-tempo-ness of these compositions. It makes me wish she'd included Moon at the Window...she is at her prime for this stuff! I'd like to hear her do more work along the lines of her recording with the Kyle Eastward group's Trouble Man. Maybe her next outing could be a set of originals with a jazz combo. She really brings something to that genre. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:58:05 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: made re dun dant In a message dated 11/21/2002 2:23:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, davidsapp@peoplepc.com writes: > As to the tattoo on the woman on Osama's shoulders. > Synonyms for redundant are repetitive and superfluous Kakki touched on this yesterday, and I just found Joni's quote about the "repetition" on JM.Com. "The World... Turned Upside Down" "I laid [my photos] out, two of a kind, and I was just playing around with the images absent-mindedly when I realized that by putting them edge to edge that a repetitive pattern occurred. So I started this series of paintings, which I call 'Repetism.' They represent the fact that the world on Sept. 11 turned upside down." Joni explaining her images of the World Trade Center in flames and the comforting view from her bedroom window, in Los Angeles Times Magazine 10/21/01 Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:42:10 EST From: Monafitz@aol.com Subject: Re Paintings On Joni Paintings My understanding from the gallery was that Joni was soliciting offers on all of her paintings. I also learned that she was trying to find out what the market would bare. No paintings were actually sold. This is of course hearsay. Cheers. Mona L. Fitzgerald monafitz@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:43:38 -0500 From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #507 - "Slut riding Osama" > And what's up with the slut riding Osama? That line alone made it worth reading through a very long edition of jmdl. Pretty funny....but, seriously, not meaning to open a can of worms, but maybe she's not a slut??? Sexual, yes. By the way, can anyone make out what words tattooed on the woman's body in that painting? I can't quite read them. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:58:34 -0500 From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #505 - painting detail > paintings one can see the shape of a lion's face in the > smoke from tower one. Here's what I see there -- a "devil" face in the smoke to the side of the tower and a horrified man's face in the smoke above the tower (don't have it in front of me right now, but I believe that was it). While I personally don't believe in the existence of the Big S (could it be Satan?), I have to admit the "devil face"-like image that showed in the smoke on that horrible day was compelling -- many of you probably saw it in a photo that appeared in newspapers a few days later. I'm assuming Joni modeled that part of the painting on that photo. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:00:05 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Okay I have to ask! How do we buy the paintings! > NP: Donny Osmond - "Don't Dream It's Over" I'm sorry, Craig. I remember reading somewhere that Joni will never sell a painting to someone who listens to Donny Osmond recordings. ; ) Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:04:54 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Okay I have to ask! How do we buy the paintings! In a message dated 11/21/2002 5:00:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, lrfye@lrfye.lunarpages.com writes: > I'm sorry, Craig. I remember reading somewhere that Joni will never > sell a painting to someone who listens to Donny Osmond > recordings. Not true! The Osmonds recorded "Both Sides Now", so they've paid Joni the royalty pennies. Buy away Craig! :~) Proof: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=922660611 Bob NP: David Byrne, "Back in the box" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:17:30 -0500 From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Re: Okay I have to ask! How do we buy the paintings! Return-Path: Received: from aol.com (mow-m20.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.136]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v89.21) with ESMTP id MAILINID74-1121141617; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:16:17 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:17:28 -0500 From: Merk54@aol.com To: littlebird3333@yahoo.com (Little Bird) Subject: Re: Okay I have to ask! How do we buy the paintings! MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <0DC80742.6F4FCD04.0004E5E0@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Actually, they were selling prints of several of her paintings at both the Bob Dylan tour, and the BSN tour. During the Dylan tour they were selling the cover portraits from TI and TTT. These were rather large in size, and available both signed and unsigned. The signed were $150 each, and the unsigned were $75 (I think!). For the BSN tour, she had the two portraits of her sitting at the bar, the French Kiss, and the Vase of Yellow Flowers (all from the BSN booklet). I believe she had signed and unsigned versions of these as well, for the same amount of money, though these were about half the size of the TI and TTT portraits. I thought they were all of decent quality, and printed on nice art stock paper. I bought and framed the autographed versions of both the TI and TTT portraits, and I consider them beautiful additions to my art collection. My wife's not a major fan of Joni's (though she loves DED!), but she likes these images enough to allow me to hang them in our living room. I also bought a signed copy of the TTT portrait for my mother-in-law, who happens to likes Joni, and loves cats. Unfortunately, she is in the final stages of terminal lung cancer, so if anyone is interested in purchasing this image, I might be able to help them out sometime in the future. I will warn you though, that it's in a $350 frame. I would only want to recoup my expenses, so for the framed image it would be $500. It is rather large, so shipping would probably be rather costly. In any case, if you might be interested, contact me off the list, and when the time comes, I will let you know of it's availability. (I hope this doesn't come across as tacky!) I hope Joni offers up some of these new images in this format. I would love to pick a few of them - especially if they were for sale at her concert here in Chicago! (I can dream, can't I?) Still loving T'log. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:23:00 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: joni as a poet Joni said "I'd never heard anger expressed in a song. And I thought, this means it's wide open, you can write about anything. It was brilliant. I wrote poetry, and I always wanted to make music. But I never put the two things together. Just a simple thing like being a singer-songwriter- that was a new idea. And when I heard Positively Fourth Street I realized that this was a whole new ballgame; now you could make your songs literature. And I began to write. So Dylan sparked me." ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:23:07 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: guardian article >>After 35 years in the business, the original woman with a guitar is one of few artists on a par with Bob Dylan.<< quite an assumption (and subtly sexist at that)...that dylan is the one to be on a par with...how about dyan is one of the few artists to be on a par with joni? i know, preaching to the choir here but i could not help myself ;~O >>Stars and Light, a biography of the singer, explains, Mitchell has threatened to quit before. This time, however, there's a difference. Following the W article, Mitchell stopped doing interviews. "That's a worrying sign," says the biographer. "Her songs are her babies and she always promotes them. So she could actually mean it."<<< oops, someone has not done their homework! stars? also interesting that karen (the biographer) is quoted as saying that joni always promotes her songs when her book shows quite the opposite...many times joni went against the accepted business practice of record, promote, tour) by going on retreat following a release (to greece, to the sunshine coast in bc, on a hejira...) >>Furthermore, Mitchell's sales have never matched her influence and critical standing.<< i agree that her influence & critical standing is beyond what her sales have been but her sales have been pretty decent imo...she's had hit songs (early with other people doing her songs, but eventually herself) & had one or more gold records & i imagine she does very well in the royalty department (thanks to her wisdom early on of hanging on to all of her publishing).... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:21:26 -0600 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Re: Okay I have to ask! How do we buy the paintings! Sorry Lori, when I heard that Sixpence None the Richer and Donnie Osmond did copies of Crowded Houses "Don't Dream It's Over" my curosity was just a little up. Who was the gentlemen we had dinner with in Austin at Katz's, it was Niel and I can not remember his last name. Up until a couple of years ago I stayed in touch with him. Craig - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Fye" To: "Happy The Man" ; Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 4:00 PM Subject: Re: Okay I have to ask! How do we buy the paintings! > > NP: Donny Osmond - "Don't Dream It's Over" > > I'm sorry, Craig. I remember reading somewhere that Joni will never > sell a painting to someone who listens to Donny Osmond recordings. > > ; ) > > Lori > > ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:41:23 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Okay I have to ask! How do we buy the paintings! Tens of thousands of dollars. The good news is that the Mendel Art Museum in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada had a book that was a retrospective collection of her paintings for sale as recently as 4 months ago. You can get the phone # from directory assistance from the USA (not America). The Mendel will gladly accept Visa and Mastercard (at least, maybe others too) and ship to the USA. I think they ship via pony express though, eh? It took about 6 weeks to reach me. Worth it though and it was really nice. Like the inner gatefold of the Mingus LP, on some paintings, the nubby texture of the canvas is readily visible as are areas where she used a very thick glob of paint. Recommended until someone decides to sell off that watercolor demo of HOSL again. :) Lama, not holding my breath Yahoo! Mail Plus  Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:03:21 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: My Joni Travelogue A bit about my journey into Joni's world: I got into Joni when I was 15, when I heard Night Ride Home playing in my uncle's car on the way to Toronto. I loved her deep, robust voice and the wisdom it evoked. I asked to look at the sleeve and poured over the lyrics, song by song, in the back of the car - nearly got car sick. I realized I had found someone really incredible. When I heard she was Canadian it just added to my resolve, being Canadian myself, of course. I had always known "about" Joni Mitchell - I knew who she was. She was part of my parents' generation's vocabulary, part of the Canadian lexicon. I had this very vague picture of a blonde woman with a guitar singing really girlie songs, maybe getting high on pot and being utterly shy. But this new Joni, this Night Ride Home Joni, was so formidable and strong: "I'm not gonna be the jackpot at the end of your purjered rainbow, not if local justice has even one good eye." - -Wow! So, Turbulent Indigo came out and again, I was mesmerized. "The Sire of Sorrow" struck me right away as being utterly timeless and epic. I also loved the title track for its gusto and energy: "He'd piss in their fireplace, he'd drag them through Turbulent Indigo..." Damn straight! Hits and Misses provided an exposure to her older material, which I had up until that point, not really explored, and honestly felt could not possibly live up to her current work. Once I got my bearings regarding her older work, though, I started to buy the individual albums from years gone by. I bought them in trios, starting with Ladies Of The Canyon, Blue and Court & Spark, only because I recognized so many of the songs on the CDs from Hits. It was only last year that I completed my collection with Dog Eat Dog, Clouds and Wild Things Run Fast. And I have yet to get Travelogue, since it's not released in Canada until next week. I've had the last year to really absorb Joni's ENTIRE body of work and only recently could I safely pick a favourite album and a favourite song. My favourite album is Don Juan's Reckless Daughter and my favourite song is Hejira. I love that '75 to '79 period in Joni's work, a period that is often not focused on by the mainstream, unfortunately. But it's very mystical work. Brilliant. Probably the most adventurous work of her career, which is why I love it so much. I tend to look at her work in "chapters" or "acts" - a very literary and theatrical perception, I know, but Joni's music works so marvelously as fiction or cinema, in visual and aural respects. "Paprika Plains" is begging for cinematic use! So, that's a bit about my journey across Joni's enormous sea of music. I'm still paddling, really. It's a part of who I am now. It's shaped my world view and helped broaden my understanding of humanity, as I'm sure it has to many of you too. Now THAT is art! - -Andrew PS: Jody, there are more of us out there. There's got to be. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 19:26:29 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: now some Tlog thoughts, too hey ken: >As I listen to Travelogue, I notice more and more that Joni is in >fine voice >for swingin'! >Be Cool, Flat Tires, God Must Be A Boogie Man, these all come yeah, and it's really exciting. i don't know if you knew this, but 'be cool' and 'trouble man' were part of the sets for the 2000 bsn orchestra tour, and they were amazing... i mourn a little bit for the losses in joni's range and tone, but one of the few things one can improve with age is one's rhythmic acuity and subtlety, and joni's been doing that. it's fecking exciting! >I'd like to hear her do >more work along the lines of her recording with the Kyle Eastward group's >Trouble Man. an album that's been in my player a lot this week. i'm in such agreement. have you ever heard etta james' 1994 'mystery lady'? it's just the tightest, most wonderful album of standards (in this case, associated with billie holiday) i've gotten in the last decade. would be such a good direction for joni to go... sorry listers who've heard me natter on about this album so many times before... patrick np - cesaria evora - eponymous ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:55:33 -0600 From: johnirving Subject: Is Joni a poet? Nay. I treasure Joni as much as any human being, but the best I would say regarding Joni is that her music is Art, and the words are deeply poetic, but it's not quite poetry. And not being poetry removes her from being a poet. I would define poetry as a literary art form of condensation. It is an intellectual play of words to get at the deepest possible expression of thought and feeling by a deep understanding and consentration of word play. Many of her songs are much like this, but not to the nth degree that the form of Poetry, as we know it, would occur. She would have to do more 'stripping', more condensing and more word play with the written line to enter the true realm of poetry: spirit friend sage's eyes sanity sanity contemplating crying I think it's that border that Joni finds offensive, at least enough that she's often spoken of her dislike of poetry. It's too much of an intellectual game. Only half the crowd 'get's it.' And the mental game strips away some of the power of the thing to communicate and affect the emotions of the reader. Well, save the great poets like Elisabeth Bishop and the like. Another way to look at is cooking. Sugar and water are as to caramel as Morning Morgantown is to Poetry, big P. They both have the same ingredients, but you have to do a certain thing to sugar and water before it enters the catagory of being caramel. And a reduced stock is nothing like Stock. But the fact that Joni is not a poet doesn't make her work any less Poetic or Art. --I am blown away that this tiny little woman (5'7, maybe 110 lbs.) can produce such spectacular vision! Travelogue has been like a visual jewel for me. I see Caravaggio brushwork, deep dark darks and brilliant cries for light in Sire of Sorrow. This is some of the richest arrangements I've ever heard. My hat's off to everyone involved, especially Mendoza. The only minute flaw to T'log is the lack of credits and commentary regarding the performers in the printed word. The arranger, band, orchestra and studio crew joined hands with Joni and produced one of the finest recordings ever made, I think. This is special stuff. So special that I think Joni will be lifted to a new place as well. If she does produce new material, "WATCH OUT!" It's going to have a sound totally new and all it's own. Even if it's just a spare voice, guitar and drums. Her ability to emote the line, play with the melodic flow and rhythm of it are light years improved over anything she's done before. I'm sure she's out to take full advantage of that in any new work. And I think Mendosa and the orchestra have helped open up that fresh new place for her as a singer. You can tell she's responding to the excitement of the aural sounds around her. She's using her voice as a jazz instrument against the band. It's gorgeous stuff. I love how she cuts loose with "Where is hope?" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can feel the sense of desperation there that we all felt Sept. 11th 2001. She is the queen of beauty hands down. Not Poetry. -Better. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 19:38:35 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Okay I have to ask! How do we buy the paintings! --- Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > > The good news is that the Mendel Art Museum in > Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada had a book that was > a > retrospective collection of her paintings for sale > as > recently as 4 months ago. > > You can get the phone # from directory assistance > from > the USA (not America). The Mendel will gladly > accept > Visa and Mastercard (at least, maybe others too) and > ship to the USA. They also have a website, http://www.mendel.saskatoon.sk.ca/shop/ and guess where this link will take you directly to? Well, I ain't telling, but let's just say you can still buy both the book and the poster. I ordered these at least a couple of months ago and they shipped them very quickly despite the fact that I had them sent via regular post. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:38:38 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: Is Joni a poet? Nay. I agree, wholeheartedly. She is more than a poet. She is poetic, but not a poet. That is far too limiting. I remember her saying once that reading poetry can be like shelling sunflower seeds - too much work for too small a reward. - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:50:46 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Travelogue WOW Only you would do this you sly devil. Are you going for the King Of Promotions crown this year?? I wish you avery Happy belated Birthday and am rasing my martini to the west as I type (pause) and thinking fondly of you and Brad of course. I will be out in January and would like to get together with you and have some quality time. Hope all is well with you. Love Paz NP-Don't Know Why-Norah Jones (I just love this woman!) on 11/20/02 12:17 AM, CoyoteRick@aol.com at CoyoteRick@aol.com wrote: > WOW is right!! > > Right now at Casa Alegre sits 35 copies of Travelouge -- and I can't get to > them as I am imprisoned here in the San Diego cul-de-sac city until Thursday > evening!! Brad called me tonight and asked if he could just open one of > them. Argh..but of course, I agreed. He called back saying, "Rick, you have > to hear this!!" I am not a happy camper at the Hilton. > > The other copies are being given to each one of my staff members at our Casa > Alegere Holiday Party on December 6. Fresh meat. > > No regrets (just patience) > Coyote Rick > Casa Alegre > Hollywood California > ...only fools are afraid to be burned by fire... ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #352 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)