From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #340 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, November 13 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 340 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in History: November 13 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: "all the guilty people..." ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2 Stars ["Bl] Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2Stars ["Vic] Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2Stars [SCJo] Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2Stars [Azee] Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits [Merk54@aol.com] Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue,2Stars ["Vict] delurking ["Jeff & Vicki Harris" ] The Moan ["RSM" ] Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2Stars ["jef] Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2Stars [SCJo] Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2Stars [Jen] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #485 - home studio? [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2Stars [Jerr] T'log promotion [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: "all the guilty people..." [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue,2Stars ["Chri] Re: "all the guilty people... ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell,Travelogue,2Stars [Jerry ] Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits [ewwt@juno.com] more Travelogue preview sound snippets ["Moni Kellermann" ] Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits [KJHSF@aol.com] Joni, "an original" ["Kate Bennett" ] Article says Joni's calling it quits ["Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: "all the guilty people..." >A wonderful intro song on a masterful record...when I hear those opening >piano chords I'm locked in for the whole ride! Oh yeah..Bob...never fails for me..I always get a chill up and down my spine..and an excitement when I hear those first few chords. A must then...... to experience the whole thing.. Bree >Bob _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:35:46 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: YOU BET!! was RE: Re: Joni, "an original" > . Maybe Carly wrote "Nobody Does > It Better" It was written by Carole Bayer Sager and Marvin Hamlisch(defibately by CBS maybe not Hamlisch), not Carly. - -- bw colin TANTRA LHASA APSO (reg 1982) colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:35:50 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: YOU BET!! was RE: Re: Joni, "an original" > . Maybe Carly wrote "Nobody Does > It Better" It was written by Carole Bayer Sager and Marvin Hamlisch(defibately by CBS maybe not Hamlisch), not Carly. - -- bw colin TANTRA LHASA APSO (reg 1982) colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 05:03:47 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: As soon as I get my copy ... As soon as I get my copy of Travelogue, after digesting it really well, I mean, I'm gonna burn CD compilations (strictly for my own personal use, of course) of each song preceded by its original. I think that will be mind-blowing to listen to ... sort of like time travel. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 05:14:05 EST From: PICRSN@aol.com Subject: Please remove me from your mailing list Sorry but I haven't the time to wade through them. Thanks but I'm just deleting them all. Rob Sheen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:34:29 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Quote - comment Walt wrote: "and you know what? i think joni may have slipped when she said she hated madonna probably meant to say that awful britney spears or christine aguilera! " I believe the quote was not quite that (the report stated that Joni can't stand Madonna - (you said 'hate', which is itself an exaggerated paraphrasing) - but that was not part of Joni's quote, which was: "Madonna has knocked the importance of talent out of the arena," Mitchell tells W magazine. "She's manufactured. She's made a lot of money and become the biggest star in the world by hiring the right people." See - "Joni Mitchell calls Madonna the 'biggest star in the world' ". Anyway, my take on this is that your point is consonant with Joni's point - without Madonna having paved the way, there might have been more 'new Jonis' in the world of pop today, and fewer Britneys and Christinas. That is obvious today, but was less obvious when Madonna was breaking ground 10 and 15 years ago. So, Reuben's criticism in that regard may have missed the point - yes, the news about Madonna is very very old, but the distaste for its 'success' in having led to the current sad state of affairs had to wait for the present to play out (give or take a few years). That said, Joni did not even really come out and say that Madonna is not talented. Let's face it - in the area of song writing, Madonna is no Joni Mitchell. In the area of singing, Madonna is no Joni or Judy or a lot of people. In the area of dancing, Joni is no Madonna. In the area of self-promotion, Madonna is a genius, and Joni is a dunce, a zero in Madonna's class. And why was Madonna ultimately so successful in selling her wares ? Because most people are willing to buy the product she was willing to sell, and willing to sell hardest and firstest and longest. Really, Joni's distaste is with the taste of the buying public. As I have said several times on this list, "The average American is a scary thing". Come on out and say it Joni - that way you can alienate absolutely everyone (except us listers, of course - we know we've got good taste) ;-) Bob S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:49:52 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's work > Lama concluded (re Blue, FTR and C&S) > > "ps, > 1971: a dulcimer > 1972: a grand piano with an orchestra > 1974: a jazz-rock band covering Annie Ross > The people rest, your honor" But Joni did not rest. What 'single' artist, having produce those 3 albums (and noone else did, really), could have followed them up with the likes of HOSL, Hejira and DJRD? Really, Lama, you are too modest. Bob S PS - No, I have not dismissed the rest of her body of work... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:00:42 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: what jimmy said about joni In a message dated 11/12/2002 11:29:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: > jimmy said to me before that he doesn't know what happened > to that demo, > that probably david has it... Kate, please do whatever you have to do to snag this recording and share it with us. And no hurry, I'll give you a week! :~) Thanks for sharing this story, sent the old chills up the spine... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:08:46 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits In a message dated 11/13/2002 1:33:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, frasere@intergate.ca writes: > And if this will be the swan song, so be it. I will be > satisfied. Well, put me in the camp of those who think she's just blowing more smoke here. Like Kakki said, she's been issuing this same threat for over 30 years. She seems to be the type to impulsively follow her muse and not her practical sense...of course, time will tell, and she's certainly not helping her cause by continually shooting herself in the feet (or more likely giving the media soundbites to twist against her). > NP: Tom Waitts/Crystal Gayle- One From the Heart > Do you have this one Bob M? Yes, and it is a real gem! Such a pretty contrast between Waits' growl and Crystal's swoon...the part of Crystal was supposed to have been Bette Midler (after Coppola heard 'Never Talk to Strangers) but they couldn't work it out - at least I think that's how the story goes. Bob NP: Ben Folds Five, "Stevens Last Night In Town" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:30:29 -0500 From: "joseph tischner" Subject: melancholy wednesday irony My bowl of Honey Bunches of Oats lost their appeal as I was watching CNBC this morning. Between imminent war with Iraq and news of the snipers, the news stream at the bottom of the screen announced that "singer-songwriter Joni Mitchell says her next album will be her last. Mitchell is disgusted with the music business, calling it a 'cesspool'". Maybe Joni's just tired. Maybe her musical creativity is spent. Maybe the hounds in the business are the culprits, but it's left me very sad. We do have so much to be grateful for, but to think this is the end kinda breaks my heart. It will make Travelogue so much sweeter. I fetched "HOSL" for my ride to work; hadn't heard it in a long while. I get in the car and it's pouring rain, it's dark, leaves scattered everywhere. I turn to my 16 yearold to tell him that Joni's not recording anymore and I get his usual eloquent grunt of acknowledgment. I guess he's thinking how he can't wait to see '8Mile' again this weekend. The first strains of In France They Kiss On Main Street inject me with a little energy. I hope my son's listening. ...sweet bird you are briefer than a falling star... _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:07:19 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2 Stars I usually trust Rolling Stone, but every now and then, they'll get someone totally fresh out of college to write reviews. You can bet if David Wild or David Fricke would give it at least 31/2 stars or more. I can trust them, becuase they have such a consumate history of reviewing records and the like. Joni getting 2 stars makes me think of Tori AMos, who back in 1996 released, Boys for Pele. Well, the Rolling Stone review said something very similar to what they said about Joni, Since Tori Amos plays piano they asserted that unlike Jerry Lee Lewis, who plays songs like "Great Balls of Fire" with gusto and ferver, that Tori is lacking in that category and those aforementioned qualities should be added to her work. Well, First of all, that was just sexist, second, Tori is never and was never, a 'rock n' roller' more of a spiritual muse and thirdly, What the fuck does Jerry Lee Lewis have to do with anything relevant today, aside from sodomy? Same with Joni, she really isn't a 'rock n' roller' and never would strive to make a 'rock orchestration record' becuase it is not her style.. Poo POO. Blair :) I'll wear it proudly-Elvis Costello >It seems Rolling Stone does not feel that the strings on Travelogue are up >to the standards of "great orchestral rock." Glad that the reviewer is >shielding RS's readers from orchestral recordings that are not >sophisticated >enough for them! > >Cherokee Louise lives under a tunnel? > >And so the slamming begins........ > > > http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/cd/review.asp?aid=2045280&cf=360 _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 9:20:2 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2Stars > Same with Joni, she really isn't a 'rock n' roller' and never would > strive to make a 'rock orchestration record' becuase it is not her style.. > Poo POO. What's more is that I've found most of these 'rock orchestration records' to be largely forgettable and uninspired, ie. symphonic music of pink floyd, jethro tull, even the Rolling Stones had one, but I think Joni's recording is something much more special and unique and makes a much larger impression on me whereas the others just seem so predictable. You would think that Joni would get a little more respect after everything she has accomplished. Victor in Asheville - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:41:37 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2Stars In a message dated 11/13/2002 12:20:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: > You would think that Joni would get a little more respect > after everything > she has accomplished. Actually Victor, I think the opposite of this is true. Analogy: When a magician has wowed audiences around the world by making a herd of elephants disappear or some such, no one gets excited when they do a "really good card trick"! The expectations are simply too high, and the magician has 'made the mistake' of letting people know what they are capable of. If all the critics said to themselves "well, Joni Mitchell has given us such a vast incredible body of work, and possibly even changed the course of music...we should just applaud & praise WHATEVER she does!", it would be condescending & patronizing and an *insult* to her as opposed to being respectful. The critics should be able to be honest. (And like Blair says, you have to know the tastes of the critic to begin with.) They're not afraid to pan Dylan, or JT, or McCartney, or anyone. Joni doesn't play to them anyway...I think our reactions around dealing with bad reviews of the artists we idolize are more about *our* own egos anyway. Bob NP: Ben Folds Five, "Boxing" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:28:10 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2Stars In a message dated 13/11/2002 14:43:03 GMT Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << The critics should be able to be honest. (And like Blair says, you have to know the tastes of the critic to begin with.) They're not afraid to pan Dylan, or JT, or McCartney, or anyone. Joni doesn't play to them anyway...I think our reactions around dealing with bad reviews of the artists we idolize are more about *our* own egos anyway. >> Hear hear Bob! While there are always critics indulging their own egos (and they are usually readily identifiable), some of them are just saying it as they see (or hear) it, and if they don't like it, we and the artists just have to deal with it. I'm reminded of a big feature on REM in Mojo magazine when New Adventures in Hi Fi came out. The interviewer was slightly nervous of the meeting, as he had hated their last album (Monster). Mike Mills beat him to the punch however, in a way he hadn't expected: he remembered that the interviewer had also been the reviewer and said words to the effect of "I know you didn't like our last record, don't worry about it, it's cool." That's a big man! I know the feeling of outrage when a record we love is panned or damned with faint praise, but hell, I've just gotta learn to cope! As for Joni, I think a person who's sensitive enough to have written such extraordinary songs is perhaps bound to have a thinner skin than most. All the same, I sometimes wish she'd show a little more class and rise above this stuff. As regards Madonna, well, yes, I think everyone here can agree that Joni is several laps ahead of Madonna as a musician and songwriter - HOWEVER, I can't help wondering if Joni has ever actually listened to a Madonna album all the way through. She might be surprised that there are some bloody good SONGS in there. If she gave Like A Prayer a spin, apart from the classic pop singles, she'd hear songs like Oh Father and Till Death Do Us Part. Compare these songs to some of the cuts on Joni's nearest contemporaneous album, Chalk Mark In A Rain Storm, and what do you get? I know what I get: I prefer Maddy's album, I just think it's BETTER! In the great scheme of things Joni is unassailable. And it should also be taken into account that Madonna is a co-author of her songs as distinct from a songwriter, and has a lot more outside input to how the songs sound (although I have no doubt that the songs are unequivocally HERS, in that they are expressions of what's going on in her, and that she's not just sitting around waiting to add her writing credit); all told, Joni might consider being less sniffy about her. Azeem in London NP: Madredeus - O Paraiso ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:30:13 -0500 From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits In a message dated 11/12/2002 10:23:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, BRYAN8847 writes: > "Show my tits? Grab my crotch? Get hair extensions and a > choreographer? Hysterical! Jack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:50:19 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue,2Stars > The critics should be able to be honest. (And like Blair says, you have to know the tastes of the critic to begin with.) They're not afraid to pan Dylan, or JT, or McCartney, or anyone. Joni doesn't play to them anyway...I think our reactions around dealing with bad reviews of the artists we idolize are more about *our* own egos anyway. That's very true. I remember reading a review of a Grateful Dead concert I attended in the Greensboro News and Record. The only thing the reviewer found worth mentioning was the Chuck Berry cover that they played...all the other incredible ORIGINAL songs meant nothing to him. But hey, he's just being honest. :-} As with Joni, critics have been fairly irrelevant to the success of the Grateful Dead. Its not so much a bad review that I mind...its just irritating when someone simply doesn't get something and tries to categorize it, to place it in a box. But that's the nature of critics. I think too, that the disparity about her singing that has been shown on this list...is pretty mild compared to how the average fan may react, or critics for that matter, who do not have a predisposed love for Ms. Mitchell. Yes, our own egos definately come into play here. Victor, winner last night of two free tickets to any Grey Eagle show in the next year at the "Grey Eagle open mic competition"...I've managed so far to miss Victoria Williams, Stacy Earle, Ellis Paul this year...but I'm sure there are more great shows to come... NP: Tom Waits "We're all Mad Here" - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:35:56 -0500 From: "Jeff & Vicki Harris" Subject: delurking ...coming out of the cobwebs for a quick thought... Regarding Travelogue: while my personal taste would have appreciated Joni doing these songs with a more jazzy arrangement, (I'm picturing Joni playing PIANO with the same musicians Diana Krall had for Live In Paris...wow...)the thing that immediately jumped out at me (again and again and again), is the genius of the SONGWRITING. I loved Joni's voice in the past, and I love it now with it's 55 year old character. I loved Joni's guitar and piano and dulcimer playing in the past, but truthfully, many people sing or play as well as she does. For my money, very few (maybe no one) can equal her ideas in lyric and songwriting. That's where her genius lies and that's what keeps me coming back. Maybe that's why some people are disappointed in Travelogue, there's no fresh material. But I get a new rush from hearing these songs in a new setting. I'm hearing some of the same songs that I've heard for 20 years...and I'm awed all over again. ...back to the corner, me... Vicki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:27:45 -0800 From: "RSM" Subject: The Moan At first, I too got a little depressed by the state of JM's voice. The image of Loretta Switt keeps popping up (not a bad image, but disconcerting). But repeated listening bears fruit. So much of her music was mature beyond its years, years ago and the weathered voice now only adds meaning and irony to many of these songs. I love her Travelogue verision of Hejira. It is so cinematic to me. The staggered beginning brings me rich visions of a road in flat midwest and the approach of a fast moving car on the horizon. As the car approaches, I am swept into the car with JM singing. The tophat cymbol playing, while criticized earlier, sounds like the rhythm of the road. Perfect in my mind. Then there is the Moan. Right after she sings "between the foreceps and the stone" JM gives us a little Moan -- oooohhhhh. Where did that Moan come from!? It sounds so spontaneous and real. I want more! If only for the Moan, I will buy this album. Ron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:28:12 -0800 From: "jeff t." Subject: Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2Stars Bob: >Actually Victor, I think the opposite of this is true. > >Analogy: When a magician has wowed audiences around the world by making a >herd of elephants disappear or some such, no one gets excited when they do >a "really good card trick"! The expectations are simply too high, and the >magician has 'made the mistake' of letting people know what they are >capable of. > >The critics should be able to be honest. (And like Blair says, you have to >know the tastes of the critic to begin with.) They're not afraid to pan >Dylan, or JT, or McCartney, or anyone. Joni doesn't play to them anyway...I >think our reactions around dealing with bad reviews of the artists we >idolize are more about *our* own egos anyway. > >Bob Nuh uh. If a critic articulates his or her sentiments in such a fashion as to actually mean something, sure, I'll bite. "This bizarre two-disc recording finds the loftiest of singer-songwriters collaborating with a seventy-piece orchestra, revisiting her past work." Ok, so far I know it's bizarre. Odd, eccentric, unexpected, unbelievable. WHY is it bizarre? "The arrangements treat Mitchell's tunes as precious artifacts, making little attempt to seduce the listener; only on "The Circle Game," for example, do the strings provide the kind of romantic sonic brocades associated with great orchestral rock." Now I learn she's not attempting to seduce me. And why not? Madonna always does. Bitch. And the qualifier (no, kicker) is that only on The Circle Game will I hear romantic sonic brocades associated with great orchestral rock. Come again? Better back that up with an example or two so as to fully convince me that I shouldn't be so seduced in the first place. So far I've been hanging on every little nuance I can pick up on in my first few listenings. Her achingly beautiful treatment of Chinese Cafe has seduced me, to name but one example. Sonic brocades, tympanic tapestries, aural afghans ... does he truly believe this collection lacks these qualities? What, examples please, gets this guy's juices flowing? "Mitchell -- in strong, ultraconfident voice -- proceeds with her famous jazz inflections, delineating characters such as "Cherokee Louise," who lives under a tunnel. But, the occasional sax flourish notwithstanding, the music does not swing or get loose." No, it doesn't swing. What a disappointment. "Travelogue translates Joni Mitchell as a scrupulously constructed puzzle. . " You forgot bizarre. Why, now, must I have respect for this review? It neither critiques properly nor instructs. My ego has little to do with it. I think. Jeff NP: F. Shea ... Goin' back to Salem _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:10:03 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2Stars In a message dated 11/13/2002 12:28:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, wyeth99@hotmail.com writes: > Why, now, must I have respect for this review? You don't have to, Jeff. I was speaking more about the nature of reviews in general, not necessarily this RS review. Bizarre was a, well, bizarre choice of words...given her last project, there's nothing bizarre about Travelogue. Well, I take that back - hearing the lyric "he opens up his zipper and he yanks her to her knees" sung over a 70-piece orchestra IS pretty freakin' bizarre! Sort of like Joe Piscopo doing Frank Sinatra doing "Hit Me With Your Best Shot"...but I digress. Anyway, as I alluded to in my follow-up to Victor, it's important for a reviewer to do their homework and this element was lacking in the RS review, no doubt about it. Ironically, my biggest surprise in the piece is when he refers to her voice as "strong" and "ultra-confident" which indicates to me that he's never heard ANY of her earlier work! To tell the truth, I'm surprised that RS reviwed this one AT ALL. Bob NP: (Kate's older brother) Tony Bennett, "They Can't Take That Away From Me" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:31:12 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2Stars Bob said...-Ironically, my biggest surprise in > the piece is when he refers to her voice as "strong" > and "ultra-confident" which indicates to me that > he's never heard ANY of her earlier work! This is confirming my suspicion (hope) that the vocal mix of Travelogue is not as poor as it seems to be through my computer speakers. Jenny U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:36:51 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #485 - home studio? Well lady of the canyon..your words make me feel better.. (yeah..but she has that studio in her home..she might never venture out again..like..like..NORMA... Could not resist..) I think I remember reading that Joni dismantled and sold off the in-home studio. Maybe one our insiders knows for sure... Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:39:32 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2Stars Jenny Goodspeed wrote: > This is confirming my suspicion (hope) that the vocal > mix of Travelogue is not as poor as it seems to be > through my computer speakers. Jenny It definitely is not a poor mix. The engineering quality of the recording is 5 star. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:45:25 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: T'log promotion This article may interest only those of you who work in marketing, as I do, and it's a week or two dated, but interesting nonetheless. I hope Nonesuch keeps up the promotional work (already better and smarter than most of what Reprise did) considering Joni has talked trash on the business and declared this her swan song. Bryan New Joni Mitchell Album, "Travelogue," to Premiere Online Fans; Will Be Able to Preview Tracks, Lyrics and Artwork in Advance of CD Release LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Nov. 13, 2002--For two weeks leading up to the release of Joni Mitchell's new album, "Travelogue," Nonesuch Records will be previewing one complete track a day from the album for 14 days as streamed audio over the internet. Beginning November 6th at www.buzztone.com/joni, the concept allows the user to take a virtual journey through 14 of the 22 songs on the two-CD deluxe set, which features new recordings of songs spanning the artist's entire career, accompanied by a 70-piece orchestra, a thirteen voice choir and a backing band that includes keyboardists Herbie Hancock and Billy Preston, saxophonist Wayne Shorter, drummer Brian Blade and others. "Travelogue" is being released by Nonesuch Records on November 19th. Site placements, linked banner ads and e-mail blasts will begin on the 6th using the Buzzalong media player - a proprietary technology of Buzztone, a Los Angeles-based company - which functions as an e-mailable and postable mini-website. The day's featured song will be highlighted, the next day's song identified, and the user can return to the site at will to hear the music, view the album artwork (painted by Joni), read the lyrics, forward the info to a friend, sign-up for mailing lists, link to the Nonesuch and Joni Mitchell web sites and purchase the recording from an online retailer. Spanning virtually the entire career of this seminal artist, Travelogue contains both well-known hits and hidden treasures from Joni Mitchell's extraordinary body of work. Travelogue was produced by Joni Mitchell and Larry Klein, who also served as Musical Director and bass player on several tracks, with arrangements and conducting by Vince Mendoza. The album was recorded earlier this year at Sir George Martin's Air Studios in London. Among the sites where the media player will appear are The New York Times.com, Real Networks, Salon.com, Slate.com, Artist Direct, RollingStone.com and assorted radio station and music retail websites. For more information on Joni Mitchell, also visit www.Nonesuch.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:56:25 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: "all the guilty people..." Well, Jim, since you asked... ;~) If Webster's had an entry for poet-songwriter, Joni would be the definition and Court and Spark would be included as the example - to me it is the most exquisite marriage of music and words. From the first poignant notes of the piano intro (as Bob and Bree so aptly admired) to the very last slide of the guitar - the song is perfection. I imagine during the "All the guilty people..." verse that this rogue wanderer is telling the protagonist about his spiritual conversion, attempting to win her over, so that she too will leave behind her current life and all it's hypocrisies and trappings (spiritual, material, creative or otherwise) and to make a new life with him. A bit more romantic of an interpretation, then Lama's, "come-on line", wouldn't you say? Jenny - --- "Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama)" wrote: > Wow. Hmmm. I never examined that one in isolation > before. Lots there, > Relayer. Maybe we should Goodspeed with > this one. Jenny? Would > you care to share with the class, your thoughts on > this quotation? It's > alright, you're among friends here. Just answer > thoughtfully; Deb Messling > has been posting lately. (A gifted lit critic to be > sure.) > > Lama > > PS, To me, it sounds like a come-on line, disguised > as Religion. It's like > a Bryan-Prince-Thomas line. :) > > > > "All the guily people,he said,they've all seen the > stain on > their daily bread,on their christian name > I've cleared my self I sacraficed my blues > And you can complete me > And I complete you" > -Court and Spark > I've been thinking about these lyrics.any > ideas about what they mean? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:2:31 -0500 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue,2Stars I recall a day when RS reviews used to go on for pages and pages, really examining a new body of work. Whether or not one ended up in agreement with the reviewer about the quality of a release, it was always evident that a fair amount of thought, listening, and research went into each review. Now, RS has succumbed to the format of other rags and in the process, they've totally lost my respect. I haven't missed an issue in 22 years, and at this point, the romance is over. ("You've Changed"...). Incidentally, this is EXACTLY what JM is referring to when she says she's ashamed to be past of the industry and that it's become a cesspool; so few people look beyond the surface for the true value and meaning of art these days. If they are not being conceptually spoon-fed, too much energy is required for the sugar generation to muster any sort of real understanding and appreciation. - -Christopher, who at one time, like young Cameron Crowe's character in "Almost Famous", dreamt of being a contemporary music journalist. > [Original Message] > From: Jerry Notaro > To: Jenny Goodspeed > Cc: ; > Date: 11/13/2002 1:39:32 PM > Subject: Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue,2Stars > > Jenny Goodspeed wrote: > > > This is confirming my suspicion (hope) that the vocal > > mix of Travelogue is not as poor as it seems to be > > through my computer speakers. Jenny > > It definitely is not a poor mix. The engineering quality of the > recording is 5 star. > > Jerry - --- Christopher Treacy - --- ctreacy1889@earthlink.net - --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:6:2 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: "all the guilty people... > I imagine during the "All the guilty people..." verse > that this rogue wanderer is telling the protagonist > about his spiritual conversion, attempting to win her > over, so that she too will leave behind her current > life and all it's hypocrisies and trappings > (spiritual, material, creative or otherwise) and to > make a new life with him. And maybe he was playing "The Circle Game", trying to seduce her with its romantic, sonic overtones... Victor NP: nothing, except an occasional dog barking, the wind blowing red and yellow trees, and the hum of the computer... - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:08:55 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell,Travelogue,2Stars Christopher Treacy wrote: > I recall a day when RS reviews used to go on for pages and pages, really > examining a new body of work. Whether or not one ended up in agreement with > the reviewer about the quality of a release, it was always evident that a > fair amount of thought, listening, and research went into each review. As someone who has about 150 published reviews in professional publications I can tell you this is across the board, not just RS, and not just music reviews. The days of long, thoughtful reviews, along the lines of Pauline Kael or Frank Rich, are long gone. The public wants everything quick and fast: Thumbs up, or thumbs down. Unfortunate, but true, nonetheless. Jerry np: Eminem - Run Rabbit Run ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:13:28 -0500 From: ewwt@juno.com Subject: Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits << She has refused to do anything to make her music more salable. "What would I do?", she asked in the W magazine interview. "Show my tits? Grab my crotch? Get hair extensions and a choreographer? It's not my world," she said. >> Sex sells everything and sex kills. How did we ever get to be such a vulgar society anyway? If it doesn't contain lots of gratuitous sex and violence it doesn't sell. Rolling Stone tried to turn Joni into a sex goddess in the mid-70s and when she objected her career went into obscurity. Interestingly Joni appears naked in a self portrait on the Mingus cover but it was too subtle and artistic for anyone to notice. I don't understand why she doesn't sign with a jazz record label. Jazz musicians don't stoop to grabbing their crotch to sell albums. Eric "The best lack conviction given some time to think and the worst are full of passion without mercy." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:31:02 +0100 From: "Moni Kellermann" Subject: more Travelogue preview sound snippets Hi there, the German website to promote the album, www.jonimitchell.de has 3 new sound bites: Be Cool, Just Like This Train and Sex Kills They are in Real Audio format and as usual, I provide you with the DIRECT links - clicking on them will fire up your Real Player (if installed) and start playing the file. The sound quality is MUCH better than the swf/mp3 ones but these are only snippets of one minute of each song! The links are: Be Cool: rtsp://real.aol.de/warnermusic/eastwest/audio/Joni_Mitchell/01___Track__1_1. rm Just Like This Train: rtsp://real.aol.de/warnermusic/eastwest/audio/Joni_Mitchell/02___Track__2_1. rm Sex Kills: rtsp://real.aol.de/warnermusic/eastwest/audio/Joni_Mitchell/03___Track__3_1. rm Make sure that the above links are not wrapped, if they are broken into 2 lines, copy them as ONE into your browser's address window. Enjoy! moni ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:38:03 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: [none] >Lama In my 46 & 11/12ths year-old brain, she blew the roof off the singer-songwriter genre with "Blue" in 1971. Maybe Carly wrote "Nobody Does It Better" but to me, Joni is the true object of that compliment. The very next year, 1972, "For The Roses" came out. To me, both of these albums are so incredibly rich in beauty, metaphor, and depth, that there's just no way to get all of the "juice" out of them in less than 10 years of living with them. You might be able to "gobble" them up and move on, but when you come back? Oh, my. You're back for good. Then came "Court and Spark"!! Has any solo Beatle had three back-to-back titles as good as these? I think not. McCartney's "Ram", much as I love it, was preceded by "McCartney" and followed by "Wings-Wildlife". John Lennon? Please! That's the bottom line for me. I'm not saying that the Beatles were hacks. Understand, what I'm saying is to expect 3 in a row of this caliber from any solo artist is a super-human feat, unattainable by even the Beatles. Yet, here's this Canuck. This *WOMAN*. Hello? You bet she's ground-breaking! Lama I heartily agree with your assessment of Joni's wonderous feat regarding those splendid back-to-back titles. Also agree that no solo Beatle even came close. In fact the only artist, male or female that has a possibly comparable accomplishment would, in IMO be L.A. Cowboy. His debut CD "Farewell" was hailed in a 1997 edition of the Twin Cities Reader as "probably,the separation/divorce CD of the century; at once poignant, resigned, hopeful, forgiving and full of love - lost or otherwise." I noted that the next weeks edition had around seven "letters to the editor" from people of both genders writing in and agreeing, even thanking the writer for exposing the CD through his review. Then came "So Much Has Changed", an opus devoted to the North American Indian's heritage, plight and possibilities. A totally new, distinctive, contemporary blend of stratocastrs, mandola, keyboards, native percussion and flute, with chanters and back-up singers representing five different tribes. A reviewer in a Native American News Quarterly wrote in 1999; "that anyone particularly a white man, could so eloquently capture the saga, the spirit, the sorrow, and the honor of Indian's everywhere is simply stunning. The Great Father spoke through our brother, L.A. Cowboy. Every Indian, and particularly, every white man who occupies our land, every two-legs who occupies this earth, should listen and learn from this passionate, poetic masterpiece and its message of understanding,tolerance and acceptance. Further funds permitting, I hope to receive permission to publish the poetry of these songs in the next edition, so that our brothers and sisters who continue to live without electricity, running water or paved roads on many of our Reservations can also hear" these marvelous messages". Then "Flyover Land", also, I believe, released 1999. An "anonymous" L.A. producer in the Cowboy's guest book simply stated: "the ultimate tongue-in-cheek, tribute to Tinseltown. What a gas! I'm ordering copies for several friends - and, unawares, enemies. The perfect, "fake white Christmas tree" stocking stuffer. You've done it again Cowboy, another instant classic! Every song is 'profoundly' cool." Then we have CDs four through eight...hmmmmm. But then again, you were simply referring to three. BTW - IMO Cat Stevens did 2 and 1/4,1/2? Franklin NP: "Famous Love" by L.A.Cowboy at http://www.mp3.com/lacowboy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:38:07 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits In a message dated 11/13/2002 2:13:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, ewwt@juno.com writes: > I don't understand why she doesn't sign with a jazz record label. > Jazz musicians don't stoop to grabbing their crotch to sell albums. > Eric > Hell, why doesn't she start her own label and sell her stuff on the Internet? It worked for Aimee Mann who went through more than a few tribulations with record companies who either folded or refused to release her work because they "didn't hear a single." Mann says that she is much happier and more suited to working this way, and her creative process grew when she could do her art without wondering what the record executives would think. There are viable options for Joni if she wants to keep recording music. But, truth be told, I don't think she does for reasons far greater than the admittedly disgusting music biz. I agree with Bob, who said he had been looking forward to hearing the thoughts and themes of Joni in middle-age (Facelift). When she excavates that terrain, she's at her very best, no matter what age. It will be a shame to have the musical chronicle of her life stop with TTT. ken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:27:05 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Joni, "an original" lama wrote "As I recall, Joni learned to play a baritone ukulele first because it was more affordable than a guitar." joni first studied piano before playing the uke, then she took up guitar & she learned some chords from a pete seeger songbook...she switched to alt tunings because of her polio, it was hard to form standard tuning chords with her hands... my guess is once she started using these alt chords, she just fooled around with what sounded interesting to her...that has been my experience with alt tunings...that is the beauty of these tunings...it frees you up to go places where you might not ordinarily go musically... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:27:08 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Article says Joni's calling it quits >>saying she would never take another deal in the record business, "which means I may not record again".<< who knows... but NEVER taking another record deal is one thing... & MAY not record again is another...hope springs eternal... pssst....Joni, you can do this on your own...you don't need no stinkin record company...there is a lot of great music out there! pay no attention to what the mainstream biz is producing these days...you won't find it too much of it there...that doesn't mean it isn't alive & well...your songs stand up on their own...remember when you recorded with just a vocal & guitar/piano? & blew us all away...c'mon...you still have a lot to say... stephen wrote >>But she said: "no one wants to listen to what I have to say." She seemed extremely pissed, and rightly so, that she has not received the "recognition" she truly deserves.<< i know she feels this way & i can understand where she is coming from only in the context of where the music biz has gone...but i believe she is looking in the wrong direction for recognition...the music biz is indeed as she describes it but so what?...she can just go around it...i really wish she'd stop looking at her music reflected through the biz & start looking at what other folks (especially woman) have done recently ... 2 great examples are jonatha brooke & aimee mann...they've had more success & recognition on their own terms than they ever had when they had a record deal...joni may not have the widespread commercial success of some other, less talented, 'artists', but that has never been her priority... she has a significant fan base that i am convinced would buy an album of her new songs (!) if she were to release them independently & she'd be keeping all the profits from the sales instead of handing it over to a label... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:27:06 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! lama >>Russell terrier and argued to let him sniff the other diners!<< kakki >> Her little Coco was yapping her head off being leashed and since it was only just a few of us out there at first being copacetic, she let her off the leash to stop yapping. << lol...joni shows that she understands dog thinking...dogs need to sniff everything to get oriented to the world around them...then they settle down usually... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:53:34 -0500 From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits I was also reading an article in RS magazine recently that said that Joni was quitting....guess when the article was written...1970!I was looking through old RS magaines.good thing she didn't quit back then isn't it! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:26:16 EST From: SMC1254@aol.com Subject: Fluffer for the public: Rollong Stone Well, I flip through RS for the pictures when I am bored. They always seem to disregard Joni - I frankly know she is way over their heads - Van Gogh again; there is alot of corporate bullshit going on-sort of like pharmaceutical companies wining and dining doctors. I found the review to be bizarre - as he called the album bizarre. From what I remember they disliked Turbulent Indigo, BSN and so on. Rolling Stone is a bad magazine, a corporate Rag. A sad excuse for a guide to music and arts. Look at the cover with Christina A. That girl will be travel - drained, she is the definition of slut music. I loved the comment Joni made... What do you want me to do show my tits and get a choreographer. Now that made me smile and laugh hard. The fact is "Joni is right " about all of this slamming, damn it. Madonna, as much as I follow her and respect her in some arena, she is a capitalist pig and a really bad actress. Frightening. Prostitution. Still I love to dance and party, so there you go. There will be some gushy, amazing reviews of Travelogue, Rest assured. Joni will smell the roses. I hope she keeps on slamming and ranting, singing and painting for us and her. Remember - She is a sage. Rantingly a devotee, Stephen ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #340 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)