From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #338 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, November 12 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 338 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in History: November 12 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Uriah Heep (...big thanks) [Gordon Mackie ] RE: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! [Deb Messling ] slouching towards bethlehem ["Raffaele Malanga" ] Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! ["Bree Mcdonough" ] three times minimum [] Fwd: RE: Sv: [NortheastJonifest] Choni Content [Mags N Brei ] Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! [Susan Guzzi ] Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: "all the guilty people..." [Engwall57@aol.com] Re: reading the list [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni in concert tomorrow? ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Joni in concert tomorrow? [Jerry Notaro ] desert discs ["Jerry Notaro" ] RE: Joni, "an original" ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Swansong? [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2 Stars [David M] travelogue editions? [FredNow@aol.com] YOU BET!! was RE: Re: Joni, "an original" ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" <] Re: Joni, "an original" [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni Content in a book "Stardust Melodies" by Will Friedwald ["Jim L'Homm] Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)] Article says Joni's calling it quits [BRYAN8847@aol.com] RE: Article says Joni's calling it quits ["Heather" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 03:03:33 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: November 12 1994: Turbulent Indigo debuts at its #47 peak on the US charts. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:09:51 +0000 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: Uriah Heep (...big thanks) Hi Listers Thanks to the kind people who sent me nice messages...some off list. My yin and yang are now back in some kinda balance (for the first time). Humbling. Gordon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 06:56:41 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: RE: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! http://www.nypost.com/seven/11072002/gossip/pagesix.htm PAGE SIX By RICHARD JOHNSON with PAULA FROELICH and CHRIS WILSON - -------------------------------------------------------------------- November 7, 2002 -- Joni Mitchell's sour-note rant SINGING and songwriting legend Joni Mitchell can't stand Madonna. "Madonna has knocked the importance of talent out of the arena," Mitchell tells W magazine. "She's manufactured. She's made a lot of money and become the biggest star in the world by hiring the right people." Sadly for fight fans, the feeling is not mutual. "Wow," said Madonna's rep, Liz Rosenberg. "What can I say? Madonna has always been a huge fan of Joni Mitchell's. I don't know what to say. I'm sorry she feels that way. Madonna speaks frequently about her admiration and worship of Joni's talent. Wow. The feeling isn't mutual." Madonna isn't Mitchell's only target in the bombshell interview. The "Parking Lot" singer also doesn't care much for David Letterman. "Letterman treats musicians like the armpit of the [entertainment] industry. He tags you on at the end [of his television show], never talks to you - while he talks to the dimmest actress." A rep for Letterman would say only: "The feeling isn't mutual." As for everyone else, Mitchell - who claims she is leaving the music industry forever because the "business is repugnant to me" - had this to say: * "David [Geffen] is almost like my mother . . . David seems to have an inability to see me fresh. I'm fond of David. Though I don't know why . . . It's a strong combative relationship. He was money motivated, I was art motivated. He took advantage, but he took advantage of everybody - that's the nature of the business." * Regarding contemporary artists: "As long as they look good, they can pitch-correct them now - they can interior-decorate their music. The artists don't have to play anything - they can cheat, buy songs and put their name on them, so they can build the illusion that they are creative." * On the music business: "[It is] the most corrupt one of all. They try not to pay you whenever possible. Part of me wants to spill the beans, but it doesn't seem to be effective . . . They're not looking for talent. They're looking for a look and a willingness to cooperate. And a woman my age, no matter how well-preserved, no longer has the look. And I have never had a willingness to cooperate." * Regarding her 1995 reunion with her daughter Kilauren Gibb, whom she had put for adoption over 30 years ago: "I have a wonderful relationship with my daughter and my grandchildren. [After the reunion], for a year or two, it was difficult. Now we're hummin' . . . We don't have the scar tissue that's frequently built up between mother and daughter." * On Hollywood: "There is nothing duller to me than a room full of stars. There is too much effort, straining, and they're all exhibitionists. I need a climate of affection. You're not going to find a pocket of affection in a room full of stars." At 01:18 AM 11/12/02 -0300, you wrote: >does anybody have the full text or can quote by heart? apparently, you have >to BUY the text from the NY post if you want to read it. the nerve. >wallyK - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.408 / Virus Database: 230 - Release Date: 10/24/02 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 06:33:11 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! ewwt@juno.com wrote: > << I love Joni for her guts! But why name names? She can't rant and > rail without making it personal? >> > > Hi Bree, > Perhaps Joni thinks Madonna epitomizes what's wrong with the > music industry today. > Or perhaps Joni is following Madonna's example, promoting her new > CD with negative controversy. > ;~D > Eric Or, perhaps she was specifically asked about Madonna! Phyliss ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:39:56 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: "all the guilty people..." In a message dated 11/11/2002 4:22:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, Relayer211 writes: > I've been thinking about these lyrics.any ideas about what > they mean? Relayer, I don't know how you come up with these questions, but I'm glad that you do! :~) For me, the only way I can make sense out of the lyric you've quoted (from Court & Spark) is to put it in context of the song as a whole. In the song, the singer comes upon a singer in the park - they share a 'moment', make eye contact, whatever - sufficient to encourage the guy to 'spark' her. They begin to make conversation, a snippet of which she includes here and your reference. The guy seems to be saying that he has abandoned religious thoughts/beliefs he once had..."I cleared myself, I sacrificed my blues" and didn't want to be associated with people whom he now views as hypocrites -the guilty people with stains on their daily bread (a reference to the Lord's prayer "Give us this day our daily bread") and their Christian names (referencing the names announced to babies upon their baptism). He then builds on the statement by saying "You could complete me, I'd complete you"...not a reference to mini-me but rather saying that unlike religion, having failed to satisfy him, he can now see himself being made whole in a relationship with her. Just like a smooth-talking guy...and she almost falls for it, then says she "couldn't let go of LA". Of course, the next song starts out "Help me, I think I'm falling in love again...", so go figure! :~) A wonderful intro song on a masterful record...when I hear those opening piano chords I'm locked in for the whole ride! Bob NP: The Beatles, "Sun King" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:53:16 -0500 From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: Tire Skids and Teeth Marks ..and I was an 80's kid, and can relate to everything on that list. Don't get too nostalgic until its truly gone... I had forgotten all about the "home when the streetlights come on" rule. I still do not own a video game system. My sister's boyfriend works for Rockstar Games (who put out the wildly popular "Grand Theft Auto" series), so I've seen gaming from his perspective lately. I personally think that video games are the first form of completely artless entertainment, but he'd disagree with me. As far as Joni's comments go - has anyone ever thought that Joni might just be kind of a windbag? Every time she gets asked a question she goes off on the same rant. We all know people like that in our daily lives...we just usually tune them out. The Madonna comment was lame and dated. People have been saying that about Madge for years. Get on the boat already! Reuben >>> "Humble tiger" 11/11/02 07:54PM >>> I was a '70's child and I can relate to alot of these memories......I don't think we had an answering machine until the '90's :) Erica <<>> Forgive me if it's outta place here. WtS _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:09:54 +0000 From: "Raffaele Malanga" Subject: slouching towards bethlehem Once again I could not resist and went to listen to the song of the day on the Nonesuch website. I'm listening to Slouching Towards Bethlehem right now and am BLOWN AWAY! Raf _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:07:19 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! . > Or perhaps Joni is following Madonna's example, promoting her new >CD with negative controversy. > ;~D > Eric Could be...I know this goes on? Or she IS becoming more like that Norma Desmond character as time passes? Bree _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:18:58 -0500 (EST) From: "walterphil" Subject: reading the list thanks for not killing me on that last email i wrote about joni smoking and my negative review of the joni samples from "travelog" i felt bad all day after i wrote it cause i do love her music so dearly just a few more thoughts: am i the only one who liked "taming the tiger"? i found it rich and textured with at least half a dozen good songs. i'm amazed its always near the bottom of the album list here in the voting section. granted its not a "for the roses" but it sure beats the pants off of that god awful "dog eat dog" or "chalk mark" i would put it on par at least with "indigo" or "night ride." listen to it again people! and again! yes i realize madonna is dumb as dirt you just have to watch any of her interviews on any talk show... but she is very talented and has a cool voice to boot. once again all you nay sayers, (inc. joni!) please just listen to "ray of light." you'll see. by the same token that larry king is an even bigger idiot who never does his homework and goads his guests into ridiculous situations. even worse is that horrible charlie rose. ick Makes you pine for tom snyder. (kidding! kidding!) (remember his interview with john lennon? i always kringe thinking about it) by the way, david letterman is at least intelligent, but shouldn't be ALLOWED to talk to any rock acts (joni or otherwise) cause he doesn't know anything about music and has such awful taste. ditto for jay leno, obviuosly. (bring back dick cavett or david frost please) and as an aside gripe whats with all the rap crap on saturday night live? is that what current fans of that show really want? (and i wonder why joni was never on?) and while judy and joan may be a bit boring in their old age, one just has to give "in my life" or "any day now" a quick spin to hear how great they were in their heyday a joni quote i'll always remeber someone in a rolling stone interview asked her if she was happy and she said something like "oh sure ..when i'm running in the kitchen to makes some toast.." i just love that always think of joni when i'm spreadin around the marmalade. and does anyone remember the interview with joni in RS by morrissey? (x smiths and fabulous artiste) a classic! i saved it (actually have an expanded version of it on cd) and you know what? i think joni may have slipped when she said she hated madonna probably meant to say that awful britney spears or christine aguilera! xxx to you and miss joni walt The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:31:31 -0600 From: Subject: three times minimum > From: Chihuahua50@aol.com > I remember the first time I heard For the Roses. I didn't like it. It was a > friend's copy and I didn't even buy my own copy until many years later. Now > it's my second favorite CD by Joni. (Hejira being first.) I was 15 when I bought Court and Spark, listened to it once, and thought I had wasted what was, for me, a huge chunk of money! But after two more listens, I loved it and have loved Joni's music ever since. And that was when I learned that three listens are necessary before I give up on something that's new to my ears. On Thursday, we went to Saskatoon for the weekend (I did report that we've moved home to Saskatchewan, right?). We were driving along and I said to the boys, "It's Joni Mitchell's birthday today." Emil said "I wish I could phone her to wish her a happy birthday." "We don't have her number." "Why not?" "Well, we don't know her personally, that's why." "I do!" Emil said, "I met her at the Mendel Art Gallery, don't you remember?" Kate du Nord <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Letter Out is a journal whatnot sent via email whenever I have time and inclination. Receive it automatically by replying to this email with "Sign Me Up" in the Subject box. To unsubscribe, put "Unsubscribe" in the subject box. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:32:07 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Fwd: RE: Sv: [NortheastJonifest] Choni Content as per requested by Chuck...fwding this to la big list. I also want to take this opportunity to say that I have been contemplating the notion that to give a critique does not mean that one is criticising. point well taken. When i said i was somewhat dismayed at the negative feedback about Joni's Travelogue, (as per judgments raised from the sound snippets online) I was coming from the place of wishing that people would wait until they had it in their hands/own home stereo systems before passing judgement. And as someone else pointed out to me, it IS a good thing we can discuss/dissect and offer up our opinions and thoughts on everything Joni. life is for learning. Mags. "Eisenhardt, Chuck" wrote:To: "'NortheastJonifest@yahoogroups.com'" From: "Eisenhardt, Chuck" Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:41:30 -0500 Subject: RE: Sv: [NortheastJonifest] Choni Content Hi all, I ran across this Joni reference in 'Stardust Melodies', by Will Friedwald, which is a great read on the life and times of 12 monster American Songbook tunes: Star Dust, My Funny Valentine, etc. and this bit about Joni's BSN version of Stormy Weather... "...folk-rock singer songwriter Joni Mitchell delivered a rendition that surprised me with it's depth and effectiveness, but which probably was no surprise for her longtime fans. Mitchell has a burnished voice like the best of the great jazz ladies, and a more than persuasive way with a lyric. She obviously grew up with the 1959 Sinatra reading, for her background arrangement seems deeply in debt to Gordon Jenkins." If anyone is so inclined please pass this citation to the jmdl list, as I am not able to send from this email account! Thanks! ChuckE To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: NortheastJonifest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:36:53 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Joni, "an original" >Anyone else fascinated with how music evolves? Yes. I read a fairly interesting book written by the drummer of The Grateful Dead on the history of drums/percussion. (mickey? (can't think of the last name) Interesting little tidbits like: the pan drums or steel drums were a product of WW11. ...All those oil drums left on islands were put to good use... I wonder about Joni too...where in the heck did she get all those open tunings..chord progressions? Was she influenced heavily (slightly) by somebody..was she her own evolution? Bree >Okay, Jim, tag you're it! Jenny > "Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama)" wrote:Goodspeed, let's leave >it at what? You didn't SAY anything! What do YOU >think? Why did you raise all of these >questions for ME to answer? :) C'mon. You've got a fine head >on your shoulders! Give it up, girl! You're old enough to sit with the >grownups. Speak! Speak! > >Lama > > > >Jenny said, > >> So - this all has me thinking - when is an artist ground >breaking - when an artist truly comes up with something new >or combines influences in a way that has never been done >before? Specifically - when do you think Joni broke some >ground? And what was her contribution - lyrical...musical. > >For pop/rock music history buffs - or heck for people who >were actually cognizant at the time - how do you see Joni >in the context of popular music? How about in music in >general? Did she truly become an original right of the >bat with STAS - or was that more a logical, albeit >creative outflow of what was happening around and before her? > >I have a zillion other thoughts/questions, but let's leave it at >that....>>>> >U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:51:26 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! - --- Bree Mcdonough wrote: > Or she IS becoming more like that Norma Desmond character as time passes? > You know there is something to that ... You must also realize now Bree, if Joni does read this list, you are definitely on HER S*** list! We should be reading about you in her next interview. Ready for my close-up! ;-) Peace, Susan U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:21:47 -0800 From: "Ronald M. St. Marie" Subject: Re: "all the guilty people..." Re Court and Spark: I view the song as a conflict of adolescent/sixties idealism and post adolescent/seventies materialism. We are told of an encounter with a free spirit offering a different, spiritual life to the singer. Not someone abandoning religion, but someone who just experienced an awakening/cartharsis -- "When something strange happened Glory train passed through him." He gives up everything to search for a woman to share his life with. He points out that we all know that we have sacrificed our ideals for material things -- the stain on our daily bread. He says that you need to clear yourself of these worries about materiality, give up your blues that created by wanting and not getting what you want. You know, come away with me, lets get away from all this b.s. and live free. The singer is tempted to do the same thing -- it makes a lot of sense to her. She knows that she worries sometime. But can't give up her things: I see it as her comfortable life. She is one of the fallen angels, those who come to LA with innocence and high-minded ideals, only to be seduced by L.A. -- Babylon by the Sea. Free Man in Paris echoes this theme of being handcuffed by success. Fits in a nice tight package for me. Just my opinion of course. Ron in Lost Angeles - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 6:39 AM Subject: Re: "all the guilty people..." > In a message dated 11/11/2002 4:22:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, Relayer211 writes: > > > I've been thinking about these lyrics.any ideas about what > > they mean? > > Relayer, I don't know how you come up with these questions, but I'm glad that you do! :~) > > For me, the only way I can make sense out of the lyric you've quoted (from Court & Spark) is to put it in context of the song as a whole. > > In the song, the singer comes upon a singer in the park - they share a 'moment', make eye contact, whatever - sufficient to encourage the guy to 'spark' her. They begin to make conversation, a snippet of which she includes here and your reference. > > The guy seems to be saying that he has abandoned religious thoughts/beliefs he once had..."I cleared myself, I sacrificed my blues" and didn't want to be associated with people whom he now views as hypocrites -the guilty people with stains on their daily bread (a reference to the Lord's prayer "Give us this day our daily bread") and their Christian names (referencing the names announced to babies upon their baptism). > > He then builds on the statement by saying "You could complete me, I'd complete you"...not a reference to mini-me but rather saying that unlike religion, having failed to satisfy him, he can now see himself being made whole in a relationship with her. Just like a smooth-talking guy...and she almost falls for it, then says she "couldn't let go of LA". Of course, the next song starts out "Help me, I think I'm falling in love again...", so go figure! :~) > > A wonderful intro song on a masterful record...when I hear those opening piano chords I'm locked in for the whole ride! > > Bob > > NP: The Beatles, "Sun King" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:24:26 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! Bree writes: << Or she IS becoming more like that Norma Desmond character as time passes? >> JONI: I AM BIG! It's the music business that got small. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:35:38 -0500 From: Engwall57@aol.com Subject: Re: "all the guilty people..." I like your interpretation of C&S. It is very insightful. Joni's body of work is like a tapestry; many themes are repeated and developed over time. As some discussed in the "foreshadowing" thread, Joni does not just plop a song out there that has no connection to the rest. everything is interconnected. Ruth ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:36:30 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: reading the list In a message dated 11/12/2002 12:18:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, walterphil@excite.com writes: > am i the only one who liked "taming the tiger"? > i found it rich and textured > with at least half a dozen good songs. There are a bunch of us that like it, Walt. "Harlem in Havana" is my favorite of her 90's songs. Except for "No Apologies" & "Lead Balloon" which sound forced and unfocused, the songs are up to her standard. I love the way she touches on her current 'mature' relationships in songs like "Facelift".(And wish she would explore some of these themes more with some new songs). I DO wish she had played some of it on acoustic, or piano, or at least experimented more with the settings on the VG8. Because of her strumming/picking style, too many of the songs sound too similar, of course this takes nothing away from them lyrically or compositionally. > yes i realize madonna is dumb as dirt She's "dumb" like a fox! Joni should have a tenth of her marketing savvy. I own no Madonna records, but you HAVE to admire the fact that she's defiantly lasted as long as she has in an industry that FORCES it's hitmakers to be disposable. She's a master of controlling the media. > (and i wonder why joni was never on?) I wonder that myself...it just must have never worked out. Joni has made some spontaneous NY appearances over the years, and all you need for SNL is 2 songs! Who knows, maybe an SNL appearance is yet to come! Bob NP: The Beatles, "It's All Too Much" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:56:52 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Joni in concert tomorrow? Just checked out artistdirect.com, (which has great links), for Joni. The concert section lists Joni as playing L.A.'s Wiltern on 11/13/02, and THAT'S F*****G TOMORROW! Too late to hop on a plane but I'm sure some of you fellows can go. By the way, has the question about how to get Travelogue's limited edition being answered? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:57:15 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni in concert tomorrow? Get on it, Kakki! Laurent Olszer wrote: > Just checked out artistdirect.com, (which has great links), for Joni. The > concert section lists Joni as playing L.A.'s Wiltern on 11/13/02, and THAT'S > F*****G TOMORROW! > Too late to hop on a plane but I'm sure some of you fellows can go. > > By the way, has the question about how to get Travelogue's limited edition > being answered? > > Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:00:19 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in concert tomorrow? This 11/13 appearance is for the Walden benefit, Kakki already has her ticket. I hope Joni will be there, you never can be sure, can't wait for Kakki's report! Bob NP: Belly, "Stay" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:10:43 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Joni in concert tomorrow? That would be Stormy Weather 2002. An El Lay area contingent is already slated to attend. From what I know it will be Bob and myself, Kakki, Rick and Brad, Clark, and Ken. We're meeting for dinner pre-concert. Bob and I sprung for the mucho expensivo tickets which include a "VIP Post-Concert Party" so maybe we'll get to say hi to Siquomb herself.... Phyliss Laurent Olszer wrote: > Just checked out artistdirect.com, (which has great links), for Joni. The > concert section lists Joni as playing L.A.'s Wiltern on 11/13/02, and THAT'S > F*****G TOMORROW! > Too late to hop on a plane but I'm sure some of you fellows can go. > > By the way, has the question about how to get Travelogue's limited edition > being answered? > > Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:47:56 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: desert discs Stereophile magazine has a feature on desert island recordings. Among those listed of interest to this list are: Court and Spark Miles Davis' Porgy and Bess Michael Franks' Sleeping Gypsy Jesse Colin Young - Light Shine Jackson Brown (Saturate Before Using) Dan Fogelberg - Home Free A Little Touch of Schmilsson in the Night Gordon Lightfoot - If you Could Read My Mind JT - Mud Slide Slim and the Blue Horizon Boz Scaggs - Silk Degrees Roxy Music - Avalon Wham - Make It Big Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 19:19:25 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: RE: Joni, "an original" Mickey Hart. Bree, you need to read Karen O'Brien's book. As I recall, Joni learned to play a baritone ukulele first because it was more affordable than a guitar. While she did not invent open tunings for the guitar, she got minimal, and I mean *minimal* instruction on the topic. When you read Karen's book, you'll see that she has the intelligence and grace to credit every single newspaper or magazine article, book or interview she used. She completely covers Kelly/Kilauren, Wally, and Simon. And that Muller guy too. :) It's the perfect Christmas gift to the Joni fan on your list, or for yourself. Lama Sample ======= Karen's said, >>>>>>>> Karen's voice: Soon after arriving in New York she had considered getting a manager, but a meeting with (Bob) Dylan's manager, Alan Grossman, convinced her that she didn't need a Mr. Ten Per Cent of her own: Joni's voice: > He was a very intimidating man. He smoked through his > fist and had these big, bushy gray eyebrows. One > night he took me out for sushi... the bean curd smelled like urine that night and I had such a hard time with it. And he was sitting there, smoking through his hand and looking at me like, 'Eat it up, if you want me to manage you!' Karen's voice: They went back to her small apartment in Chelsea (yeah, this is the TRUE source) and Mitchell recalls Grossman was discomfited by the feminine trappings, the tasteful decoration and the lovingly restored vintage pieces retrieved from the Detroit home she'd once shared with Chuck Mitchell: Joni's voice: > He walked in and he couldn't believe it - it was > fixed up really cute. He couldn't figure out > how I did it and he tried to talk me out of > [music]. He said I was too domestic to be in > the music business. He took me over to his > place and all he had was a pallet on the floor > with black sheets. > He said, " YOU don't need a manager." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> pp 63-4; "Shadows and Light: The Definitive Biography" from Virgin Books Ltd., London 2001 Enticed? Lama PS, Yael, I think I told you this story in the car. It's a perfect "condescending male" tale isn't it? >>>>>>>> > From: Bree Mcdonough [mailto:bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com] > I read a fairly interesting book written by the drummer of The > Grateful Dead on the history of drums/percussion. (mickey? > (can't think of > the last name) Interesting little tidbits like: the pan drums or steel > drums were a product of WW11. ...All those oil drums left on > islands were > put to good use... > > I wonder about Joni too...where in the heck did she get all those open > tunings..chord progressions? Was she influenced heavily (slightly) by > somebody..was she her own evolution? > > Bree ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 00:34:14 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Swansong? Are we still expecting an album of Christmas songs? River isn't on Travelogue (unless I have missed it completely) but Chinese Cafe is, but not Facelift... Not sure if I would be looking forward to an album of Xmas songs but not including River in this bunch really stings... Joni has said recently in W magazine that this will be her swansong, which will be disappointing (but she has really wanted out of the music biz since 1970 so I don't blame her, probably why she has never given up the smokes, cuz she never saw herself in the biz for that long!). I read the article on yahoo news somewhere. can't wait for Monday!!!!!!!! (cuz, you see, we in the UK will get it on the 18th, according to play.com but the post being what it is, I expect I'll get it on the 25th! Much Joni Jamie Zoob - --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:52:21 -0800 From: David Marine Subject: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2 Stars It seems Rolling Stone does not feel that the strings on Travelogue are up to the standards of "great orchestral rock." Glad that the reviewer is shielding RS's readers from orchestral recordings that are not sophisticated enough for them! Cherokee Louise lives under a tunnel? And so the slamming begins........ http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/cd/review.asp?aid=2045280&cf=360 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 19:56:59 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: travelogue editions? This has probably been covered already, so I apologize for repeating, apologize for repeating, but I haven't been able to keep up with the heavy list traffic lately. Is there definitive info about varying editions of Travelogue? Some kind of "special edition" or enhanced CD (found nothing like that on Amazon)? If someone could let me know as I'd like to advance order it soon. Thanks in advance, Fred ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:27:50 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: YOU BET!! was RE: Re: Joni, "an original" > Jenny said, You mean I don't have to be at the kid's table for Thanksgiving?! ; ) That's exactly it. But, if you want my two cents anyway......... In my 46 & 11/12ths year-old brain, she blew the roof off the singer-songwriter genre with "Blue" in 1971. Maybe Carly wrote "Nobody Does It Better" but to me, Joni is the true object of that compliment. The very next year, 1972, "For The Roses" came out. To me, both of these albums are so incredibly rich in beauty, metaphor, and depth, that there's just no way to get all of the "juice" out of them in less than 10 years of living with them. You might be able to "gobble" them up and move on, but when you come back? Oh, my. You're back for good. Then came "Court and Spark"!! Has any solo Beatle had three back-to-back titles as good as these? I think not. McCartney's "Ram", much as I love it, was preceded by "McCartney" and followed by "Wings-Wildlife". John Lennon? Please! That's the bottom line for me. I'm not saying that the Beatles were hacks. Understand, what I'm saying is to expect 3 in a row of this caliber from any solo artist is a super-human feat, unattainable by even the Beatles. Yet, here's this Canuck. This *WOMAN*. Hello? You bet she's ground-breaking! Lama ps, 1971: a dulcimer 1972: a grand piano with an orchestra 1974: a jazz-rock band covering Annie Ross The people rest, your honor. > Jenny said, > >> So - this all has me thinking - when is an artist ground > breaking - when an artist truly comes up with something new > or combines influences in a way that has never been done > before? Specifically - when do you think Joni broke some > ground? And what was her contribution - lyrical...musical. > > For pop/rock music history buffs - or heck for people who > were actually cognizant at the time - how do you see Joni > in the context of popular music? How about in music in > general? Did she truly become an original right of the > bat with STAS - or was that more a logical, albeit > creative outflow of what was happening around and before her? > > I have a zillion other thoughts/questions, but let's leave it at > that....>>>> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:38:16 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni, "an original" In a message dated 11/12/2002 7:20:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, jlamadoo@fuse.net writes: > While she did not invent open tunings for the guitar, she got minimal, and I > mean *minimal* instruction on the topic. > Basically, Bree, she heard chord shapes in her head that she couldn't find the fingering for in standard tuning - it would require great stretches of the fingers across the frets. So, the solution; re-tune the strings so you CAN play the chord. Once you've done one of these "martian" tunings, you can simply play barre chords or other combinations to create new chord sequences. So for the most part, at least to my understanding, the open tunings came about because of physical limitations. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:48:00 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Joni Content in a book "Stardust Melodies" by Will Friedwald Murphy, this might help you in your never-ending crusade as the King of Joni-in-literature. Chuck E posted this last night to the JoniFest list: Chuck E said, >>>>>>> Hi all, I ran across this Joni reference in 'Stardust Melodies', by Will Friedwald, which is a great read on the life and times of 12 monster American Songbook tunes: Star Dust, My Funny Valentine, etc. and this bit about Joni's BSN version of Stormy Weather... "...folk-rock singer songwriter Joni Mitchell delivered a rendition that surprised me with it's depth and effectiveness, but which probably was no surprise for her longtime fans. Mitchell has a burnished voice like the best of the great jazz ladies, and a more than persuasive way with a lyric. She obviously grew up with the 1959 Sinatra reading, for her background arrangement seems deeply in debt to Gordon Jenkins." If anyone is so inclined please pass this citation to the jmdl list, as I am not able to send from this email account! Thanks! ChuckE >>>>>>> Lama ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:44:47 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! ****** EXACTLY ****** Thanks, Bree for validating my opinion. I've long suspected this. The icing on the cake was when Joni showed up at the alfresco diner with a Jack Russell terrier and argued to let him sniff the other diners! Touche! We need to get some footage of Carol Burnett's old 'Norma Desmond' skit, have Bob Murphy write a typical rant, give the lines to Susan Guzzi and create a new voice-over soundtrack. I see Harvey Korman as the long-suffering Klein. Or am I very much mistaken? Lama PS, I love Joni...... No, really! From: "Bree Mcdonough" > Or perhaps Joni is following Madonna's example, promoting her new CD with negative controversy. > ;~D > Eric Could be...I know this goes on? Or she IS becoming more like that Norma Desmond character as time passes? Bree ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:23:13 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Article says Joni's calling it quits This was on the news wires today Bryan (praying it's not true) Joni Mitchell says new album will be her last LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Veteran singer-songwriter Joni Mitchell, disgusted with the music business, has said her latest album will also be her last. "These are my last two records," the influential Canadian songstress said of her forthcoming double album "Travelogue". "I'm quitting after this because the business has made itself so repugnant to me," Mitchell, 59, was quoted as telling the December edition of W magazine in an interview. Mitchell, whose eclectic career spans 35 years across the genres of folk, rock and jazz, has been hinting for weeks that she might end the recording career that made her one of the most respected and outspoken artists of her generation. In an interview with Rolling Stone, published in October, Mitchell described the music business as a "cesspool," saying she would never take another deal in the record business, "which means I may not record again". In the W magazine interview, she blasted the recording industry as "the most corrupt one of all. They try not to pay you whenever possible." Venting her scorn on contemporary artists -- including Madonna -- Mitchell said of music industry executives; "They're not looking for talent. They're looking for a look and a willingness to cooperate. And a woman my age, no matter how well preserved, no longer has the look. And I've never had a willingness to cooperate." As for Madonna, who was once quoted as saying that as a teenager she had adored Mitchell: "She has knocked the importance of talent out of the arena. She's manufactured. She's made a lot of money and become the biggest star in the world by hiring the right people," Mitchell said. Canadian-born Mitchell, whose syncopated rhythms and introspective lyrics brought a breath of fresh air to the early 1970s music scene, inspired musicians ranging from Sting to David Bowie and Madonna herself. Yet her own records, even those like "Both Sides Now," "Big Yellow Taxi" and "Woodstock", never sold in huge numbers. She has refused to do anything to make her music more salable. "What would I do?", she asked in the W magazine interview. "Show my tits? Grab my crotch? Get hair extensions and a choreographer? It's not my world," she said. "Travelogue," a two-disc collection, features some but not all of Mitchell's greatest hits. It was recorded with the London Symphony Orchestra and a backing band that includes Herbie Hancock, Billy Preston and Wayne Shorter and will be released on November 18. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:19:32 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Article says Joni's calling it quits Hasn't Joni said that before? Wasn't a performance in New Orleans (or somewhere in that vicinity) to be her swan song? I think Joni will always have the bug ... or itch ... to create music. She will always continue to create on her own terms. I get so perplexed when she bashes the music industry. She has valid points but enough already. She creates works of art. It stands alone. She doesn't need all the glitz she mentions below. I really wish she would get over this and relish in the beautiful artist that she is. Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of BRYAN8847@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 10:23 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Article says Joni's calling it quits This was on the news wires today Bryan (praying it's not true) Joni Mitchell says new album will be her last LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Veteran singer-songwriter Joni Mitchell, disgusted with the music business, has said her latest album will also be her last. "These are my last two records," the influential Canadian songstress said of her forthcoming double album "Travelogue". "I'm quitting after this because the business has made itself so repugnant to me," Mitchell, 59, was quoted as telling the December edition of W magazine in an interview. Mitchell, whose eclectic career spans 35 years across the genres of folk, rock and jazz, has been hinting for weeks that she might end the recording career that made her one of the most respected and outspoken artists of her generation. In an interview with Rolling Stone, published in October, Mitchell described the music business as a "cesspool," saying she would never take another deal in the record business, "which means I may not record again". In the W magazine interview, she blasted the recording industry as "the most corrupt one of all. They try not to pay you whenever possible." Venting her scorn on contemporary artists -- including Madonna -- Mitchell said of music industry executives; "They're not looking for talent. They're looking for a look and a willingness to cooperate. And a woman my age, no matter how well preserved, no longer has the look. And I've never had a willingness to cooperate." As for Madonna, who was once quoted as saying that as a teenager she had adored Mitchell: "She has knocked the importance of talent out of the arena. She's manufactured. She's made a lot of money and become the biggest star in the world by hiring the right people," Mitchell said. Canadian-born Mitchell, whose syncopated rhythms and introspective lyrics brought a breath of fresh air to the early 1970s music scene, inspired musicians ranging from Sting to David Bowie and Madonna herself. Yet her own records, even those like "Both Sides Now," "Big Yellow Taxi" and "Woodstock", never sold in huge numbers. She has refused to do anything to make her music more salable. "What would I do?", she asked in the W magazine interview. "Show my tits? Grab my crotch? Get hair extensions and a choreographer? It's not my world," she said. "Travelogue," a two-disc collection, features some but not all of Mitchell's greatest hits. It was recorded with the London Symphony Orchestra and a backing band that includes Herbie Hancock, Billy Preston and Wayne Shorter and will be released on November 18. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 19:39:41 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! Lama, You are in rare form ;-) > Thanks, Bree for validating my opinion. I've long suspected this. The > icing on the cake was when Joni showed up at the alfresco diner with a Jack > Russell terrier and argued to let him sniff the other diners! Touche! O.K. look - while she does tend to sound a bit like Norma in the cut, pasted, clipped and snipped interviews, she is not there yet! We are generally laid back here in SoCal, especially as one gets closer to the beach. EVERYONE along the beach seems to bring their dogs if they have them (often BIG dogs like dingo mixes and Rhodesian ridgebacks and other assorted canine exotica) out on a weekend stroll to the local cafe. Her little Coco was yapping her head off being leashed and since it was only just a few of us out there at first being copacetic, she let her off the leash to stop yapping. THEN, this contingent of bratty spoiled teenage girls arrived on the scene and started giving Joni all kinds of sh**. Later, as Joni was regaling us with her times with Dylan and others those girls got smaller and smaller and almost crawled off the patio as they were leaving, their metaphorical tails way down between their legs. Heehee ;-) Joni is still as I have always regarded her - she is just like one of us. She is completely human and real and sweet. But she ain't no pushover, and that's good. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:29:30 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: what jimmy said about joni (from my memory i think this is pretty much how it went) at the joni mitchell tribute jimmy spoke about he was a kid (18 yrs old) working at sunset sound (studio) mostly working in the back, fixing stuff...one day the manager told him that he would be engineering david crosby who was coming in...jimmy didn't know who that was but thought, oh, cool...bing crosby's son! he asked if there would be a big band but the manager said no, just a vocal & instrument...when david arrived he had a beautiful girl with him with long blond hair & a strange looking instrument jimmy had never seen before (dulcimer)... so they recorded about 12 or more songs & they turned down the lights while she was playing... jimmy said he was completely mesmerized by her songs....when david introduced them afterwards, jimmy said he could hardly speak he was so in awe of her & when he asked what the woman's name was so he could fill out the studio log & was told, her name is joni mitchell... jimmy said to me before that he doesn't know what happened to that demo, that probably david has it... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #338 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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