From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #335 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, November 11 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 335 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni, "an original" ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: njm political [Franklin Shea ] Re: Travelogue question (again) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #477 [Kardinel@aol.com] Re: Joni, "an original" ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! ["Bree Mcdonough" ] RE: so sad ["Christopher Treacy" ] Re: Fwd: Meanie! Joni Mitchell Talks Trash [] Re: Travelogue ["kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:25:31 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Joni, "an original" i was listening to joni from the moment of her first release...& from the first note of her first song on her first album she was unique...her intelligence & her very visual lyrics, her use of alternative chords (tuned to the sound of the day!) & not going with any method of formulaic songwriting...she painted pictures with her words like no other... > Specifically - when do you think Joni broke some ground? And what was her > contribution - lyrical...musical. ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:03:37 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: Re: njm political >Hi Kakki, Before we go any further - what does (pc) stand for? Something as simple as personal computer, as opposed to Mac (which I have)? > > Problem with me is I also read about conspiracies saying it >is the world wide socialist internationalists who are behind most of >the chaos in the >world. They want to destroy the current system so that they can finally >have their lifelong dream realized of worldwide communism. There is truly >compelling evidence that this may be true, too, with all the links and connections adding up, etc. Actually, I get the idea that they don't necessarily want worldwide communism. Initially, they simply thought that through their "secret, enlightened" societies, they could organize the rabble of the world into something other than ignorant, chaotic masses. Somehow, money got into the picture: money equals control, type thing. Then they began to view the masses as nothing more, nothing less, than an inferior resource, yet a resource nonetheless. And what are resources for if not to exploit? > > As Jim (hi, I'm nuts, >self-centered, self-destructive and lovin' it) Morrison put it >"They've got the guns but we've got the numbers." Trouble is, we >don't have the numbers. People want to go about their struggles, >pursuits,lives and gather up their own little trickle-down trinkets >off of the Master's tables. Maybe you're right afterall. > Yes, people have not much choice than to go along and try to make a living and survive ultimately. Sure we can overthrow all the rich but where does that then leave us? I am not, and never have advocated "overthrowing" the "rich". "Violence begets violence" - God got that right(what am I implying? He gets EVERYTHING right)! All false religion ends in violence. But back to the "rich, the haves", whatever you want to call them: Even in the Bible, God does not frown on wealth (look what he restored ten-fold to Job, who was already filthy -pardon the term - - extraordinarily rich. Solomon had it all. Isaiah was a very wealthy prince.) It is "the love of money that is the root of all evil." No, I don't want to take away anything from anybody. I do not desire a penny more or a penny less than what I earn. I am not spiteful, jealous, or envious of other's blessings. Yet God does frown terribly on exploiting the poor, the needy, the sick, the old, young. He despises profit by deceit, treachery and murder. My point is that this shadow government is totally unconcerned about the source or consequences of their profits; be it drugs (legal and illegal - they totally control the "regulated" flow of cocaine into our cities under the auspices of an "experiment" - "after all, we can't stop it, so let's attempt to control it". Yeah, and all the tens of billions in HARD, untraceable cash that goes with this "noble endeavor") The legal drugs are a MAJOR part of their coffers: they control the flow and exorbitant prices of these also - it's no longer about educating people to live correctly, eat, exercise, sleep etc. This would totally cripple their multi-hundred billion dollar per year empire. I read something like the average senior has $12,000 in prescriptions a year alone, not counting hospital and physician care!!! 2) military industrial products made only to destroy (of course they use the euphemism "defend") which is a trillion dollar a year industry. They have to continually seek out clients, customers etc.. and don't care much where it all ends up - hell, they scramble to make sure the other side orders from them too. 3) The energy cartel end: where ever it is, they will get their hands on it at all costs, wheeling and dealing, secretive alliances, propped up Dictators. There are other areas. 4)Huge construction projects are a mammoth source of revenue: the $500,000,000 dollar war ship-building facility that Trent Lott rammed through Congress for his district and home state. Those with sense and decency in his state screamed out that it was totally useless, a foolish, wasteful idea. It was never completed and went into bankruptcy, an unfinished mess just sitting there corroding. Who pocketed THAT money? These are just a few of their more visible means of "supporting" the "family". No, I don't want to strip any money off of anyone for redistribution. I don't want a class war. The plundering of the middle-class in the name of looting them and using their hard-earned tax money to exploit and pizz of the rest of the world has simply got to be stopped somehow. I'm afraid it just can't. THEY (the loose-knit shadow fascist government billionaire's club), and they are loose-knit; this is no rigid organization by any means. Some are more powerful than others. I'd just love to know which ones call the "president" and give him direct commands and orders on what to say and do!! It would be far easier to expose and dismantle if it was more outwardly organized) are simply too well dug in. Way, way deeply dug in. It is the untold suffering, strife, and spiritual, physical and mental carnage that they so cavalierly leave in their wake that is despicable. Their "noble" quest to subjugate and "save" us "natives" around the planet (U.S.A. citizens included) from ourselves by lying, hiding their agendas is wickedness incarnate. > Do you think everyone will be pure and devoid of greeed >and the lust for power? It's never happened yet in the history of human >existence. Not on your life do I think that everyone will be devoid of those defects. Yet throughout history there are untold numbers who have. Those who found and accepted the truth. Only those who are justified, sanctified and purified by total surrender and submission to the Holy Spirit through recognition and personal acceptance of the greatest sacrifice in eternity - the sacrifice of God's only begotten son to save a lost, insane asylum of a sin-littered world. Only one person at a time. Only those who chose. > >they didn't share certain information so as not to panic the public> >The perfect excuse. They don't want the public to panic???? Did you >say, "maybe they don't want the public to panic"????? That's all >they've been doing for a year 24/7 on every major news channel and >newspaper chain THEY own is trying to PANIC the public - in case you >didn't notice. ;-) They absolutely want that!! > > No I meant to refer to why people weren't told 20 years ago >when we were receiving threats. I thought you were referring to >that. THEY were causing, perpetrating, inciting sh.t for their financial gains twenty years ago and still are. They don't SHARE these things for the public curiosity and enlightenment. THEY HAVE to HIDE them. ALWAYS. Stealth and duplicity are the methods of choice for accomplishing most of THEIR aims. To be exposed would be to be deposed. THEY will avoid that at all costs, thus layers and layers and layers of lackeys -witting and unwitting. Misinformation galore, all for the public "good". Do you think O.J. thinks he killed Nicole? Of course not, not him. But he Has to realize it was the OTHER O.J. You know, the one he laid to rest in an unmarked grave in his subconscious. So it is with THEM. Franklin "Ritual, tradition and pageantry have never set a sinner free. When the truth is suppressed than an artist must cry. You can steal a soul with a smile and a lie." L.A. Cowboy - "The Brilliant Failure" from the longe,r hidden track version at end of CD of same name. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:20:47 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Travelogue question (again) : > > > > > > > Dr. SigMondegreen ; ) > > > > Terry > Whatever happened to him? ;-) back ya, Terry! Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 20:42:58 EST From: Kardinel@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #477 thanks for your postings. The last few days have been depressing on the board. I haven't heard Travelogue> I plan to get a copy on the 19th when it's released. I have heard some negative reactions to it. I 've been listen to Joni Mitchell since 1968 when I got a copy of STAS. I find it hard to believe with her songs and some of the musicians involved that it's some sappy, sentimental record with syrupy orchestrations. I look forward to the recording and I am sure it's quality is better than most anything sold out there now. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 20:55:30 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Joni, "an original" Good question, Jenny. Beautifully put bob.... This group just amazes me! :-) Bree...really watching the weather because of all the tornadic activity in Ohio. November? >jrgoodspeed@yahoo.com write > > > Specifically - when do you think Joni broke some ground? And what was >her > > contribution - lyrical...musical. >Again, I don't know that she is the FIRST to do any of these, I can only >say >that she is the BEST. > >Bob _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:06:02 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! >I guess we all screwed up when we didn't give Joni what she really needs >for >her birthday: an anger management course. Sadly..I agree. You know Joni has never ever done any wrong in my eyes, but with her latest comments, I found these were way beneath her. Made her *littler*... glimmer lost a little. (I hate this!) >Although I am not a huge fan of Madonna, I do think she is a great example >of >someone who has absolutely made the most of what little talent she has, in >addition to being a very smart businesswoman and a PR genius. (And a Joni >fan, for chrissakes.) Nor am I a fan. I own none of her music. I agree..Bob..she even said in a recent interview as much when she talked about these people from France who manufactured her or helped to at the very beginning. Then she said something, you know, about *The star making machinery*. I did not like the breaking out Madonna or the overtly sexual period..but the mature Madonna I can take. In this same interview she told the interviewer that she does not let her children watch TV. She reads to them bedtime stories and the Old Testament. This sad interviewer did not follow up with any questions. She has sang some pretty decent pop songs...many like Mack said...DANCEABLE. Why Joni should you be worried about mediocre Madonna? >Call me crazy, but I think musical acts are at their most >entertaining when they're making music. Good point! I'm thinking too of my favorite film stars, when I've seen them interviewed, I'm usually disappointed. It ruins it for me. >Joni should get over being "ashamed to be in the music business" and start >thinking about the hurtful things she says about people who admire her. >God, >I can only imagine what she would think of someone who takes the time to >respond to one of her outbursts by posting to this list. I don't mind her railing against the music industry...the industry hAs it coming. I don't like it when she makes it personal...naming names. Bree (who likes Letterman ...oh Dave...Dave...) > -- Bob _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 00:29:27 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: Joni, "an original" Goodspeed, let's leave it at what? You didn't SAY anything! What do YOU think? Why did you raise all of these questions for ME to answer? :) C'mon. You've got a fine head on your shoulders! Give it up, girl! You're old enough to sit with the grownups. Speak! Speak! Lama Jenny said, >> So - this all has me thinking - when is an artist ground breaking - when an artist truly comes up with something new or combines influences in a way that has never been done before? Specifically - when do you think Joni broke some ground? And what was her contribution - lyrical...musical. For pop/rock music history buffs - or heck for people who were actually cognizant at the time - how do you see Joni in the context of popular music? How about in music in general? Did she truly become an original right of the bat with STAS - or was that more a logical, albeit creative outflow of what was happening around and before her? I have a zillion other thoughts/questions, but let's leave it at that....>>>> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 1:38:5 -0500 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: RE: so sad Oy Vasmir. > [Original Message] > From: walterphil > To: > Date: 11/10/2002 5:22:31 PM > Subject: so sad > > listened to the "travelog" links today > and i find them so sad > > why would joni release so many of her old songs > when to me every comparison > to the way her voice used to sound > just makes me wince. > > and just as i thought--- > i hate the lame orchestrations > > i wish she'd just give up cigarettes > laura nyro did > and her voice improved. > judy collins and joan baez' voices are still beautiful > and neither smokes. > i just wonder if jonis would improve. > i'll bet it would. > > i guess she just doesn't care that much > i read in an interview once > when she had that throat thing > she said "they tried to blame it on my cigarettes" > "my" cigarettes indeed. > in the same interview she went on to say how she > preferred billie holiday's later singing voice. > rubbish. > i know it's a matter of opinion, but give me > the 30's billie over the > lady in satin period any day. > > and those recent quotes about madonna-- > so pathetic > i love madonna > yet i realize she isn't half the "artist" joni is > and anyone who would give a listen to > "ray of light" could see how much > madonna is influenced by > and respects joni. > it's just so obvious to me that > "ray" is kind of madonna's "hejira" > > i'm sure madonna was very hurt when she read > joni's comments. > > i also wonder if joni ever listened to > "ray of light" or "music" > i'll bet money she never has. > > i'll still always love joni > and i will listen > when she drags out that gutair again > and sings a new song. > > in the meantime i will listen to > "seagull" and "clouds" and "roses" > and "nightride home" for the zillionth time > > xxx > walt > The most personalized portal on the Web! - --- Christopher Treacy - --- ctreacy1889@earthlink.net - --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:54:32 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: Fwd: Meanie! Joni Mitchell Talks Trash Joni also doesn't much care for > David Letterman, saying: "Letterman treats musicians like the armpit of > the [entertainment] industry. He tags you on at the end [of his > television show], never talks to you--while he talks to the dimmest > actress." If this is true about Letterman, then it coincided with what Annie Lennox once said in the interview that Letterman did not talk to her when they are off the air and would suddenly become overly animated when the cameras are rolling. Because of this Jekyll-and-Hyde character, Lennox suddenly became monosyllabic in her answers. By the way I like Lennox, and I think that she, and Paula Cole and k.d. lang (with Jane Monheit closely following) possessed the best voices in the business today. In the same interview where she lashed at Letterman, she was told that Linda Ronstadt likes her as a singer and Lennox answered: "I am so ashamed that I don't know anything about Linda's albums. Linda, I am sorry, I am English!". Joseph in Manila ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 20:03:59 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Travelogue Kardinel wrote: > thanks for your postings. The last few days have been depressing on the > board. I haven't heard Travelogue> I plan to get a copy on the 19th when it's > released. I have heard some negative reactions to it. I 've been listen to > Joni Mitchell since 1968 when I got a copy of STAS. I find it hard to believe > with her songs and some of the musicians involved that it's some sappy, > sentimental record with syrupy orchestrations. I've heard it a few times now in its entirety. If you are someone who has listened to Joni since STAS and been in love with all or part of her music since then you will absolutely fall in love with Travelogue. It's hard for me to even describe the way it affects me. For a long time Joni fan it will be like experiencing an exquisite and magical reincarnation of all those first listens long ago. The orchestration IMO is a huge part of its magic. Brilliant and original. Kakki ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #335 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)