From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #312 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, October 22 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 312 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Library Links: October 21 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Foreshadowing? ["hell" ] Re: Foreshadowing? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Renee Fleming on Joni [Deb Messling ] Re: Foreshadowing? [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Renee Fleming on Joni [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Foreshadowing? [Catherine McKay ] Re: Foreshadowing? [Mags N Brei ] Re: Foreshadowing? [Mags N Brei ] Re: Foreshadowing? [Ricw1217@aol.com] Re: Foreshadowing? [Ricw1217@aol.com] Re: Foreshadowing? ["Erica Trudelle" ] Too feminine for rock? ["William Chavez" ] Re: Joni biting the hand [Engwall57@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #436 [paul mccloud ] Re: Foreshadowing? [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Foreshadowing? [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Patti Witten and Big Yellow Taxi - sjc [Patti Witten ] RE: Foreshadowing? ["Heather" ] Re: BIG SUR Joni Mitchell Crosby Still Nash Young ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lam] Re: Foreshadowing? ["Kate Bennett" ] [none] ["jeff t." ] Re: Jonifest photos, CD and Stormy Weather ["kakki" ] Cohen, Midway, Gallery ["Christopher Treacy" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 03:09:45 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: October 21 On October 21 the following item was published: 1997: "Jackson Browne: Joni's new tune is a low blow" - National Enquirer (News Item, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/971021ne.cfm - -------- Can you type? http://www.jmdl.com/typing/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:49:18 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Foreshadowing? I was listening to a compilation tape of Joni (thanks again, Ric!) in the car the other day, and one set of lyrics from "The Gallery" stood out: You studied to portray me In ice and greens And old blue jeans And naked in the roses Then Joni poses naked "for the roses" three years later - and is photographed in "greens" for the cover of FTR. Is this pure coincidence, or does anyone think Joni might have thought of this? Or maybe it was sub-conscious? I thought it was interesing, anyway, and I don't think it's been discussed here before (although I may be wrong)..... Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 06:19:28 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? "Is this pure coincidence, or does anyone think Joni might have thought of this? Or maybe it was sub-conscious?" Yeah, that's pretty interesting Hell...it could also be added that her last couple of records with paintings in frames make up "The Gallery"...my own take on it is that the coincidence is just that, but who knows. I don't know much about the making of many of these record covers & would love to learn more. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 07:20:42 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Renee Fleming on Joni Here's what Renee Fleming had to say in the NY Times of 10/19: Renie Fleming: America's Soprano of Choice(Page 3 of 3) But jazz, she pointed out, did not enter the picture until she was in her 20's. Her passion as a youngster growing up in a household of professional musicians was musical theater. Thanks to an ambitious English teacher, Rochester high school students were performing the likes of the complete "My Fair Lady" and "The Sound of Music" at what Ms. Fleming remembers as "a very high level." Twice she played Eliza Doolittle; another year she played the Mother Abbess, who sings "Climb Ev'ry Mountain." Advertisement "Just now," Ms. Fleming said with the surge of sudden revelation, "just yesterday, it dawned on me that my primary talent is versatility. I can't mimic accents when I'm talking, but I can mimic vocal styles. It allows me to do a lot of different genres. That's not something most people in the business see as a plus."Our culture worships (or we think it does) at the shrine of sincerity. Frank Sinatra did it his way: our kind of guy. Mimicry raises the specter of artifice, the antithesis of sincerity. Ms. Fleming's well-documented obsession with other performers' renditions of the music she sings only aggravates suspicion. As reported in The New Yorker, before singing "God Bless America" at Ground Zero, she acquired recordings of the piece by 10 artists, from Celine Dion to Kate Smith. "They were not helpful," she said. In preparation for "Il Pirata," she collected "a bunch of pirates," unauthorized releases of historic recordings.The point is not to copy but to seek inspiration. Still, Ms. Fleming's eclecticism continues to make some people nervous. Just now, she has decided to let that be their problem. "They want you to be one thing," she said. "But I think I'm going to stop apologizing and embrace the situation wholeheartedly. The secret that will make or break everything is integrity. That and quality at the highest level."As a matter of record, Ms. Fleming has sung Mozart in Salzburg, Wagner in Bayreuth, Massenet in Paris, Richard Strauss in Munich, Andri Previn in San Francisco: hardly the track record of a specialist. But her thoughts turned rather to her idol, the Canadian singer and songwriter Joni Mitchell."From her folk roots, Joni Mitchell went off on so many tangents," Ms. Fleming said. "Jazz, including the brilliant tribute to Charlie Mingus. World music. Rock. Pop. I bought all the albums and stayed interested, because everything she did retained real integrity. She's a great model for any recording artist fortunate enough to attain longevity. Of course, I liked some of her albums better than others. But her example gives me the courage to perform and record a very broad repertory. That said, Richard Strauss will always be core." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.401 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/9/02 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 07:45:25 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? Hell writes: << Then Joni poses naked "for the roses" three years later - and is photographed in "greens" for the cover of FTR. >> And don't forget the "ice" on the cover of Hejira! Far out, Hell! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 08:25:56 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Renee Fleming on Joni Deb Messling wrote: > As a matter of record, Ms. Fleming has sung Mozart in > Salzburg, Wagner in Bayreuth, Massenet in Paris, Richard Strauss in Munich, > Andri Previn in San Francisco: hardly the track record of a specialist. But > her thoughts turned rather to her idol, the Canadian singer and songwriter > Joni Mitchell."From her folk roots, Joni Mitchell went off on so many > tangents," Ms. Fleming said. "Jazz, including the brilliant tribute to > Charlie Mingus. World music. Rock. Pop. I bought all the albums and stayed > interested, because everything she did retained real integrity. She's a > great model for any recording artist fortunate enough to attain longevity. > Of course, I liked some of her albums better than others. But her example > gives me the courage to perform and record a very broad repertory. That > said, Richard Strauss will always be core." I have always been a big fan of Renee's. I think Joni would be thrilled at being in the same league with Richard Strauss, another favorite composer of mine. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 08:58:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? --- hell wrote: > I was listening to a compilation tape of Joni > (thanks again, Ric!) in the car > the other day, and one set of lyrics from "The > Gallery" stood out: > > You studied to portray me > In ice and greens > And old blue jeans > And naked in the roses > > Then Joni poses naked "for the roses" three years > later - and is photographed > in "greens" for the cover of FTR. Is this pure > coincidence, or does anyone > think Joni might have thought of this? Or maybe it > was sub-conscious? Excellent observation, Hell. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Joni did this deliberately as an in-joke. However, I also think that sometimes genius does things and only later comes up with the reason why (in other words, as you've already stated, subconsciously.) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 07:31:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? - --- hell wrote: > > > Then Joni poses naked "for the roses" three years > later - and is photographed > in "greens" for the cover of FTR. Is this pure > coincidence, or does anyone > think Joni might have thought of this? Or maybe it > was sub-conscious? good observation Hell. And let's not forget the clues which lie within Little Green, hints at the obvious and not so obvious story. Who knew at the time of the release of Blue that Joni had lost a daughter to adoption? Speaking of connections, I've always felt that River went along with Little Green ... while I know it appears later in the album, and I realize it is about her lover, the line " I made my baby say goodbye" stood out for me as possibly speaking in reference to her daughter too. Something so haunting within that line. The notion of a double entendre there may be far fetched, however I feel that close alignment imho to the sorrow that is evident throughout this album, and now that we know one of the sources of deep sorrow for Joni, it makes me wonder. Joni wants to know what a song means to us, so that's my story, my connection, the river flows between the two of them. Works for me. Don't interrupt the sorrow, darn right.... Mags You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 07:36:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? i need to add something to my original post here sorry! Mags N Brei wrote: - --- hell wrote: > > > Then Joni poses naked "for the roses" three years > later - and is photographed > in "greens" for the cover of FTR. Is this pure > coincidence, or does anyone > think Joni might have thought of this? Or maybe it > was sub-conscious? good observation Hell. And let's not forget the clues which lie within Little Green, hints at the obvious and not so obvious story. Who knew at the time of the release of Blue that Joni had lost a daughter to adoption? Speaking of connections, I've always felt that River went along with Little Green ... while I know it appears later in the album, and I realize it is about her lover, the line " I made my baby say goodbye" stood out for me as possibly speaking in reference to her daughter too. Something so haunting within that line. The notion of a double entendre there may be far fetched, however I feel that close alignment imho to the sorrow that is evident throughout this album, and now that we know one of the sources of deep sorrow for Joni, it makes me wonder. Joni wants to know what a song means to us, so that's my story, my connection, the river flows between the two of them. Works for me. Don't interrupt the sorrow, darn right.... and in addition... if you look at the lines earlier in the song, i feel the above connection there too: I'm selfish and I'm sad Now I've gone and lost the best baby that I've ever had morning thoughts. You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - - JM Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:03:22 -0400 From: Ricw1217@aol.com Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? hi hell! (and you are welcome! its an interesting way to listen to joni, isn't it? having the old stuff juxtaposed with the more recent? "joni - out of order!") anyway, i think this is a very interesting question you raise and i hope someone with some insight can expound on it. i have often wondered myself (assuming the gallery is autobiographical, and it sounds as if it is) if those lyrics mean there is a nude of joni out there somewhere! but i never made the very interesting connection between those lines and the nude shot on for the roses. i think that is kind of fascinating... and did i dream this, or has anyone else heard that the subject of the gallery was supposed to be leonard cohen. i thot i read that somewhere... ric ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:12:15 -0400 From: Ricw1217@aol.com Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? In a message dated 10/21/2002 10:03:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ricw1217 writes: > i hope someone with some insight can expound on it. OOPS!!! by the way, just in case, that was not meant to imply that those of you who have ALREADY responded to this thread don't have "real" insight! just carelessness...no offense intended... ric ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:04:23 -0400 From: "Erica Trudelle" Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? "And naked in the roses" I was also thinking about this line the other day, I was wondering if the art director for "American Beauty" was a Joni fan, in reference to the infamous naked girl covered in falling rose petal shot that is played several times in the movie. Sorry for those of you who haven't seen the movie, but I feel SOMEONE must've been humming "The Gallery" when they created this scene. Anyone remember it?? Erica _________________________________________________________________ Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:09:37 -0400 From: "William Chavez" Subject: Too feminine for rock? This was a very informative article. It is hard to believe that an organization could be sooooooooo sexist as to neglect someone with Joni's talent. Ask Bob Dylan, Led Zeppelin,(the list goes on and on....)on who they would have inducted. Out of every 10 ROCK N ROLL articles I read, I can safely say that over 50% of the artist name Joni as an influence. Many describe her as a STRONG influence. Many of them are MEN!!!! Surely as musician's musician she should have attained easy entry. I don't know how many of you have seen the most recent Joni concert where Graham Nash gives Joni the Hall of Fame award that she refused to pick up at the actual ceremony. He gave it to her in a brown paper trash bag and she stated "How appropriate". Can't say I blame her. At times it's almost difficult to blame Joni for her "bitchiness"(sorry, I promise to never use the F word). I have come across a lot of these old articles that you guys are sending me but some of them I'm sure I've never seen. Most of my friend know that they are to rip out of a magazine (or photocopy)anything Joni!!! Bravo to whoever is in charge of digging out all this stuff from magazine vault and old used book stores. Will _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:07:51 -0400 From: Engwall57@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni biting the hand FTR? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:06:40 -0700 (PDT) From: paul mccloud Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #436 kiwis are good for singing i think. if milk is bad is cheese bad too? so were supposed to give up pizza? doesnt milk drinking go way back where god tells the jews he will give them a land flowing with milk and honey? some new agers hate milk.. why? - --- JMDL Digest wrote: > > JMDL Digest Monday, October 21 2002 > Volume 2002 : Number 436 > > > > The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by > Wally Breese, can be > found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It > contains the latest news, > a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, > lyrics and much much more. > > The JMDL website can be found at > http://www.jmdl.com and contains > interviews, articles, the member gallery, > archives, and much more. > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Today's Library Links: October 20 > [ljirvin@jmdl.com] > RE: too proud to beg for jonifest photos > ["Chris Marshall" Joni's Gap Ad > [MGVal@aol.com] > Re: Second Fret songs and the gap ad ["Bree > Mcdonough" Re: vocal range ["Bree Mcdonough" > ] > Patti Witten and Big Yellow Taxi - sjc > [Catherine McKay House Of Blues and bloody mary... NJC > [Christoffer Gudi Sommer-Gleerup Travelogue Promo ["patricia van nunen" > ] > Diana Krall Case of You on XPN ["Jim > L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Shadows and Light [James Phillips > ] > Re: Travelogue Promo [Jerry Notaro > ] > precariousness NJC > [dsk ] > njc argument and war > [colin ] > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 03:08:09 -0400 > From: ljirvin@jmdl.com > Subject: Today's Library Links: October 20 > > On October 20 the following items were > published: > > 2001: "Atwood, Mitchell on Walk of Fame" - > Toronto Star > (News Item) > > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/011020ts.cfm > > 2001: "Rodin Thinkers to the Rom: We think not, > thank you" - Toronto Globe and Mail > (News Item) > > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/011020tgam.cfm > > > - -------- > Can you type? http://www.jmdl.com/typing/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:38:37 +0100 > From: "Chris Marshall" > Subject: RE: too proud to beg for jonifest > photos > > Erk. There's still one or two people to whom I > owe a password for them to upload photos. Mea > Culpa. > Been away a lot recently. > > John Moore, I know, I've been supposed to sort > this > out for ages. Also, a last shout out to anyone > else > who wants a password and a section of site to > upload > to. I'll deal with it this evening. > > Regards, > > - --Chris > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com > [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On > > Behalf Of Murphycopy@aol.com > > Sent: 20 October 2002 07:28 > > To: joni@smoe.org > > Subject: too proud to beg for jonifest photos > > > > > > I have asked nicely. > > > > I have even pleaded and cajoled. > > > > But I ain't gonna beg for photos for the > Jonifest 2002 page. > > > > Sometimes things just don't get done without > a deadline, so > > with that in > > mind, my deadline for fest photos is Tuesday > at midnight > > (Eastern US time). > > > > If I don't have your photo disc by then, or > if you haven't > > uploaded your > > photos to Chris Marshall's hatstand.com site, > they won't be > > on the Jonifest > > 2002 page. > > > > Thank you to everyone who has contributed. > There are many spectacular > > photographs from this incredible weekend, so > the page should > > be great. > > > > It would have been nice to have a few more > photographs, but > > the fest was > > almost two months ago, so . . . as Janis once > said, "That's it!" > > > > --Bob > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 09:24:22 EDT > From: MGVal@aol.com > Subject: Joni's Gap Ad > > JennyMac asked: > > > Does anyone know where we can view this > picture? > > > Can't tell you that but I think that somewhere > on Wally's website is a photo > of Joni's (in my opinion doofy), ad for a PETA > like group. I'm stretching my > brain cells here but I saw this ad back at the > very first pre-Ashara JoniFest > and it had a Gap like feeling. > > And as I type this out, I'm starting to think: > didn't I see her in a > Blackgama ad for one of those "what becomes a > legend most?" campaigns. Nearly > sure I'm not mixing her up with the one done by > Lillian Helman. (:-D > > MG - testing out not lurking as much > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:02:06 -0400 > From: "Bree Mcdonough" > > Subject: Re: Second Fret songs and the gap ad > > Excellent!! I love your dramatic color scheme. > My sister and I are doing a > carved pumpkin of Joni....cig and all. (a > beautiful way to spend an autumn > Sunday afternoon) IF it turns out decent..I'll > send it as an attachment. > > Bree > > >http://www.jmdl.com/wanderer/jonipastel.htm > > > >Received the Jonifest discs yesterday (thanks > Jody!!!) and am really > >enjoying listening to you talented people. > > > >have a great weekend, suemc > >-- > > ____________________ > > /____________________\ > > ||-------------------|| > > || Sue McNamara || > > || sem8@cornell.edu || > === message truncated === Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 13:16:44 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? <> Probably the more likely connection is the phrase "American Beauty" which describes the specific rose as well as the Mena Suvari character. However, I do think Joni's phrase merits some further examination...I would imagine that it would be some precarious modeling to be "naked in the roses", what with thorns and such. ;~) Bob NP: Dexter Gordon, "For All We Know" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 13:31:55 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? Bob Muller writes: << Probably the more likely connection is the phrase "American Beauty" which describes the specific rose as well as the Mena Suvari character. >> That scene also reminded me of an old Annie Liebovitz photo of someone (nice memory) nude and covered with rose petals. Bette Midler, maybe? (But with my memory, it may have been Bette Bennedict!) --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 14:40:43 -0400 From: Patti Witten Subject: Re: Patti Witten and Big Yellow Taxi - sjc Such a shock to see my name in the subject line! > I've just received Patti Witten's CDs ("Land od > souvenirs" and "Prairie Doll") and Big Yellow Taxi's > "Tribute to Joni Mitchell" from CDBaby. Thanks Catherine, I'm glad you like them enough to recommend them :) As for the pixie haircut, it feels great but looks awful (on me). But by the time I was 7 or 8 my mother was letting our hair grow... here's a cute pic of me and my sisters and neighbor kids playing air-band http://pattiwitten.com/photogallery2.html scroll all the way to the end Oh, there's also a Joni impersonation :) on that page farther up, taken by Sue MacNamara this summer @ Ithaca festival... I think I'm going as Joni for Halloween this year, it's such a great wig and blondes have more fun. xo Patti - -- Patti Witten, singer-songwriter http://pattiwitten.com New CD http://sycamoretryst.com Acoustic-Rock with a touch of Twang ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:56:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: Probably the more likely connection is the phrase "American Beauty" which describes the specific rose as well as the Mena Suvari character. However, I do think Joni's phrase merits some further examination...I would imagine that it would be some precarious modeling to be "naked in the roses", what with thorns and such. ;~) imho, American Beauty, the film asks us to look closer...at the notion of beauty, American Beauty, and what that *is* and what that means to the person who is doing the observing. American Beauty may refer to the not so happily ever after life behind the white picket fence to the Amercian Beauty as in the rose, or the American Beauty, as in the image of Mena Suvari, a stereotypical beauty (certainly in her own mind, surrounded by beauty (the rose(s). to me, among other things, this film is about perception and illusion. Challenging/examining the meaning of beauty in general and (the)(an) American Beauty(s) in particular. I like seeing the film through the eyes of Ricky Fitz. Speaks volumes to me. Never underestimate the power of denial. Oh yea. I have no idea if the people behind this film are Joni fans or not...the parallel between this film and the images that Joni has painted lyrically and in our minds opens doors to more ponderings/discussion. I love that about this list. And the discussions they go round and round. Mags np: on xpn, constant craving - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:56:12 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Foreshadowing? I don't know if this is insight but, I'll take a stab at this 'foreshadowing' from the point of view of Joni as a artist - lyricist and painter. Many artists are never quite finished with an idea. Joni, as an artist/painter, must have been aware of the history of women artists/painters. Let me draw on an analogy - that of Berthe Morisot, a 19th century painter from France. Morisot was a prolific painter but was more often the subject in paintings executed by the more popular male painters. While she exhibited at the Salons, her work was more often not in a prime viewing space BUT works by Manet in which Morisot was the subject were! Morisot struggled with this and as a result only created one (maybe two - I'll have to go look) self portraits. Morisot was accepted by Impressionists such as Manet,Pissarro, Renoir, but was never fully recognized for her talent, imo, until the mid to late 20th century. That's a real short, skinny on Morisot. When I listen to Joni's 'The Gallery' I think of someone like Morisot. I'd like to think that Joni may have read about her. I also think that Joni is trying to show how she 'broke out of the mold' of being a subject in a male artist environment (remember that FTR was released in 1972 during an ever emerging feminist movement) and took control when she created FTR. She exhibited herself not only in the photograph but through her lyrics. She boldly exposes herself as an artist - here I am - take it or leave it. Joni started with an idea in 1969 and evolved it into a personal statement 1972. Just my take. Excellent start for a thread Hell! Best- Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Ricw1217@aol.com Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 11:03 AM To: "hell" Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? hi hell! (and you are welcome! its an interesting way to listen to joni, isn't it? having the old stuff juxtaposed with the more recent? "joni - out of order!") anyway, i think this is a very interesting question you raise and i hope someone with some insight can expound on it. i have often wondered myself (assuming the gallery is autobiographical, and it sounds as if it is) if those lyrics mean there is a nude of joni out there somewhere! but i never made the very interesting connection between those lines and the nude shot on for the roses. i think that is kind of fascinating... and did i dream this, or has anyone else heard that the subject of the gallery was supposed to be leonard cohen. i thot i read that somewhere... ric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 08:53:31 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: BIG SUR Joni Mitchell Crosby Still Nash Young Big Sur is a highly imperfect film about what looks like an ideal concert. The viewer is constantly joining songs in progress and leaving them in progress. It's actually annoying to watch but then there's about 60 seconds of Joni singin with John Sebastian, & CSNY. Now that's a golden moment for the ages and it's enough to raise up the whole. Recommended for an anthology but not for the barn in 3 weeks. Lama bob said: >>>>>>>>>>>I've got a copy on video which I assume was taped off the tube. Haven't seen it yet as I don't own a VCR. (Jewish Mama voice on) You want I should bring it to the fest? (Jewish Mama voice off). btw, the Altman photos that Richard referenced earlier are from this gig. Joni looks very pensive. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:58:44 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? so we just need a cover in old blue jeans...the GAP ad? Hell writes: << Then Joni poses naked "for the roses" three years later - and is photographed in "greens" for the cover of FTR. >> & Bob writes: >>And don't forget the "ice" on the cover of Hejira!<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:25:55 -0700 From: "jeff t." Subject: [none] Hi From 'Record Collector' (1984)... That Song About the Midway was "supposedly written about Leonard Cohen". Jeff _________________________________________________________________ Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:25:09 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Jonifest photos, CD and Stormy Weather Thanks, Lama - they are great! And timely, since I just finished listening to most of the 8 discs of Jonifest received today from Mr. Muller (thanks!) The music is everything everyone said and more - so many gorgeous, surprising and sometimes very funny moments. Wow. To say it is stunning is an understatement. Is any artwork going to be available for the CDs at some point? I may just haul the set along to Stormy Weather 2002 in case I have the chance to pass it along to Joni (unless someone has already sent it to her!) Speaking of the upcoming concert, I barely got tix at Noon yesterday. Most are priced at $250 - $350 (croak), $150 for the top balcony and $75 for the top balcony last three rows. I am so lucky to be in the third to the last row, (choke). At least the Wiltern is a small place, but will need the telescopic binos, nonetheless. And with these prices, there are sure to be some interesting glitterati in the crowd ;-) A few of the SoCal jmders (and a possible out of state jmdler!) are also going and we plan to meet for dinner next door beforehand. If any one else out there plans to go and wants to meet up, please let me know. Kakki > Many of my JoniFest2002 photos are now up at Chris Marshall's > www.hatstand.org > > There are a ton of neat pictures, filed by photographer. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 1:48:20 -0400 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: Cohen, Midway, Gallery > [Original Message] > From: Christopher Treacy > To: jeff t. > Date: 10/22/2002 1:47:20 AM > Subject: RE: > > I thought "The Gallery" was about LC and his dabbling in scientology... > > "They've Monitored Your Brain, you say, > And Changed You With Religion"... > > Am I remembering this backwards? > -Chris > NP: New Everything But The Girl compilation "The Deserts Miss The Rains" due Jan. in the U.S. > > > > [Original Message] > > From: jeff t. > > To: > > Date: 10/22/2002 1:25:55 AM > > Subject: > > > > Hi > > From 'Record Collector' (1984)... > > That Song About the Midway was "supposedly written about Leonard Cohen". > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! > > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp > > > --- Christopher Treacy > --- ctreacy1889@earthlink.net > --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet. - --- Christopher Treacy - --- ctreacy1889@earthlink.net - --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #312 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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