From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #307 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, October 18 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 307 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in History: October 17 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] my feelings [Cactustree78@aol.com] vocal ranges njm ["William Chavez" ] second part of a trilogy ["William Chavez" ] Joni on the music biz ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Morning becomes Elektra [Gordon Mackie ] Re: vocal ranges njm [Jenny Goodspeed ] Joni's artwork [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Joni's artwork [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] travelogue album cover [SMC1254@aol.com] Framing [James Leahy ] Re: Framing [colin ] The Jungle Institution [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Re: nonesuch ["Brenda" ] Re: Framing [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: nonesuch [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter ["Erica Trudelle" ] Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter [Catherine McKay ] Re: Framing [Catherine McKay ] Cover art ["michael o'malley" ] Re:Travelogue. ["Brenda" ] Re:Travelogue. [Catherine McKay ] Re:Travelogue. ["Brenda" ] Re: Travelogue. [johnirving ] Re: nonesuch ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter ["Mark or Travis" ] Joni's artwork ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni on the music biz and it going in the crapper [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Travelogue...Joni & Mo ["Brenda" ] Live from LA -- Joni! [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: Teach Your Children [John Low ] RS interview ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Live from LA -- Joni! ["Mark or Travis" ] early early songs ["walterphil" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 03:03:59 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: October 17 2001: Joni paid a surprise visit, accompanied by her daughter, Kilauren Gibb, to Hugh's Room, a Toronto folk club, and sang a duet with her old pal, Eric Andersen. The tune was Andersen's classic 'Blue River', which she recorded with him almost 30 years ago. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/011020tgam.cfm - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 04:21:40 -0400 From: Cactustree78@aol.com Subject: my feelings I think that Joni caouldnt have been more right in her Rolling Stone interview and I thought she looked fierce in the photo.. Whatta beauty!!ANd her remarks were warranted due to the fact that shes been screwed by the business for so long she can finally speak truthfully(albiet not for the first time) on her feelings about the music industry..I mean you only have to look as far as the cover of the "Women in Rock" Rolling Stone to realize how messed up music is today....Last time i checked Britney or Ashanti arent rock (i mean Mary J isnt either but shes a major talent) ok so then call it women in music I still dont think that most of the ladies and girlz featured deserved it...Can you get over Grace Slick is her head shaved she bettre work she looks great!!A lil puffy but great...So viva la Joni for her speaking her mind and for lookin so fine.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:42:50 -0400 From: "William Chavez" Subject: vocal ranges njm Kate Bush can sing a span of seven octaves????????????????? Is that physiologically possible? Does this imply that classical singer have a wider range than seven? Will _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free! Try MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:00:17 -0400 From: "William Chavez" Subject: second part of a trilogy Joni did at one point state that BSN was the first part to a trilogy. I think we should expect painting and music from her present album to tie in with her previous album and the next one yet to come. Will _________________________________________________________________ Broadband? Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:14:51 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Joni on the music biz Joni, Say/play what you want. _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free! Try MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:41:28 +0100 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: Morning becomes Elektra Hi JMDlers Re the nonesuch doo dah, didn't albums used to come out on a combined Elektra/Nonesuch label...like Carly's . Isn't fate wonderful Gordon in Glasgow PS Who will meet up with fellow JMDLer Laurent from Paris in 3 hours time. Alas, he is coming to Scotland and not me going to Paris! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:44:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: vocal ranges njm I did a little research and Kate Bush does not have a seven octave range - more like 4 octaves, or maybe a little more than 4 octaves, which is still huge. As far as I know a span of 7 octaves is not possible. That would be almost the range of a piano. Jenny William Chavez wrote:Kate Bush can sing a span of seven octaves????????????????? Is that physiologically possible? Does this imply that classical singer have a wider range than seven? Will _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free! Try MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:45:54 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Joni's artwork There's an update on Jonimitchell.com regarding Travelogue. Hi Jim! The pic of the artwork is much sharper than on the Nonesuch site. Perhaps it's the indigo backdrop. Love the self portrait. Happy to see that she placed less prominence on the jowls LOL! She must have found a more recent photo of herself that she liked. ~rose in nj NP: My Hometown ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:59:22 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Joni's artwork And is it just me, or do her eyes in this painting have a feline quality about them? Reminds me of that wacky lady that had a series of cosmetic surgeries to make her face like that of her cats. Creepy. As for Joni's painting, I like it just fine - interesting shadows & light...like Hell, I'm much more interested in what's in the grooves as opposed to what's on the front. Bob NP: Paul Jones, "My Baby Got Drunk" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:57:49 EDT From: SMC1254@aol.com Subject: travelogue album cover Well, I actually like it a lot. I think it is moody and beautiful. I think Joni has a pretty good idea of what she is doing here and I don't think she really cares at all what anyone thinks or what she sells. I have a feeling the music will be amazing, if not astonishing. let us not second guess until Nov. 19. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:39:17 -0500 From: James Leahy Subject: Framing Just saw Joni's art for Travelogue. I agree that the self-portrait within a frame is now a tired device. Framing worked brilliantly on TI, where it brilliantly put her 'take' on Van Gogh into context. This was a portrait of herself AS Van Gogh, part humorous, part serious. The frame was needed to make that distinction clear. On TTT, on the other hand, the framing of a rather mediocre painting was not appropriate. It created an imbalance between the rectangular painting and the square CD case. As far as I can tell, the same fault applies to Travelogue (alas, the title does not lend itself to an acronym, so I guess we'll actually have to spell it out in full whenever we mention it). For the new album, judging by the title alone and by the wide range of songs that span her whole career, I envisaged a photo montage -- snapshots from her life illustrating the different moments captured in the songs ('picture postcard charms'). This new portrait, which is lovely as a portrait, doesn't give any hint of such a retrospective series of images. I'm still trying to make out some sort of overall theme from the song list given on the Nonesuch site. It still baffles me. Perhaps the pieces will all fall in place when I get the album. BTW: The new CD is listed on the Canadian version ot Amazon.com as a 'Special Import' selling for $44.95, Nov. 19 release. I guess it's not being released here generally until a later date, like what happened for BSN. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:55:55 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Framing > I'm still trying to make out some sort of overall theme from the song > list given on the Nonesuch site. It still baffles me. Is the theme not in the title? A journey thru her works? At least that is what i think about why she named it Travelogue. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:03:04 EDT From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: The Jungle Institution Hey, gang, I know (assume) when Joni wrote "Jungle Line", her reference to Rousseau was obviously to Henri Julien Felix "Le Douanier" Rousseau, painter (after he quit his customs job) of exotic imaginary landscapes, including jungles, [deep breath] **but** is there any chance she might also have been referring also to the "other" Rousseau, Jean Jacques (1712-78), writer of "Du Contract Social", among other things. According to the Cambridge Biographical Encyclopedia, his writing emphasized the natural goodness of human beings and the "corrupting influences of institutional life." Hmmm. Has this already been discussed? (I know, I know, I have too much free time, and I think too much...) Best, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:19:33 -0700 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: nonesuch On 17 Oct 2002 at 16:21, hell wrote: > > Just a thought.... Does anyone know if this is the absolute final > version of the cover art for this CD? Remember the art-work for BSN > was completed very "last minute" and I wonder if maybe she's given > them a mock-up of the cover, with the final version to come? This > "thumb-nail" might be exactly that - just part of the whole painting. > It's unlikely that it will change at this point, unless it is changing as we write. If the release date is 11/19, then the CD's have to be pressed and ready to ship on 11/5, which is just over two weeks away. And since this is the gear up time for the holiday season, the manufacturing plants will be working at capacity to ship the big Christmas releases and it would be hard for them to hold Joni's release date. B - -------------------------------------------- "Radio has no future" - Lord Kelvin, 1897 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:24:06 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Framing <> I agree, and it certainly has a better ring than "I don't like DED or CMIAR either!" ;~) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:26:13 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Re: nonesuch Hey all I just thought I'd sign back on to the jmdl after nearly 8 months of not having net access. I can't wait for the new album!!! I'm too excited!! Much Joni Jamie Zoob Brenda wrote:On 17 Oct 2002 at 16:21, hell wrote: > > Just a thought.... Does anyone know if this is the absolute final > version of the cover art for this CD? Remember the art-work for BSN > was completed very "last minute" and I wonder if maybe she's given > them a mock-up of the cover, with the final version to come? This > "thumb-nail" might be exactly that - just part of the whole painting. > It's unlikely that it will change at this point, unless it is changing as we write. If the release date is 11/19, then the CD's have to be pressed and ready to ship on 11/5, which is just over two weeks away. And since this is the gear up time for the holiday season, the manufacturing plants will be working at capacity to ship the big Christmas releases and it would be hard for them to hold Joni's release date. B - -------------------------------------------- "Radio has no future" - Lord Kelvin, 1897 - --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:26:34 -0400 From: "Erica Trudelle" Subject: Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter Michael wrote: >As a young man in my twenties, I couldn't relate to the symphonic interlude in Paprika Plains, for example. Today, it's my favorite song on the album! It's hard for me to actually pick a favorite piece off of DJRD but I will say that I LOVE the place that Paprika Plains takes me to!!! It's beautiful, I usually set the CD player to play it twice in a row, it's pure genius to me. The whole work as a whole is incredible, the reoccuring dream theme, I happen to love the 10th Wolrd, I know alot of people here don't dig it that much. And I have no clue who Martha is, I'm still trying to figure out who "left her long black hair" in Joni's drain. I love hearing positive feedback about this album. Take care, Erica _________________________________________________________________ Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:30:55 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: I am on a lonely road and I am not traveling, Man!!! What kind of a loser calls herself a Joni Mitchell fan and just finds out TODAY that she is coming out with a new 2-CD set? Called "Travelogue?" Can you help a fellow JMDL who's down on her luck and give me the scoop for Gaad's saake? Here is one vaguely informative email I culled from the archives. Is this true? She is redoing Dawntreader with an orchestra? I can't even fathom the enormity of that in my bum's rush mind. HELP!! suemc At 2:43 AM -0400 9/10/02, onlyJMDL Digest wrote: >Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 12:38:59 -0500 >From: "J.David Sapp" >Subject: a travelogue > >culling from 2 different sources we have these tracks identified so far: >Woodstock, Amelia, Chinese Cafi, Flat Tire, For the Roses, God Must Be a >Boogie Man, Sex Kills, Be Cool, Just Like This Train, The Last Time I Saw >Richard and Circle Game. >Coyote," "The Sire of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song)," "Judgement of the Moon and >Stars (Ludwig's Tune)," " 'Refuge of the Roads,' 'Borderline' and 'Cherokee >Louise.' 'The Dawntreader > >i figure that leaves 5 or 6 tunes not yet mentioned > >peace, david - -- "Heart and humor and humility will lighten up your heavy load ... " - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:04:53 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: RE: I am on a lonely road and I am not traveling, Man!!! OK, our own Bob put me in the right direction. Thanks, hon. I'm feeling better now. There I was thinking I was a Joni Mitchell fan because I listened to Court and Spark in the morning two days in a row and while I wasn't looking she's gone to London and become a MAESTRO. She was orchestral then, you know, when she copied herself as an oboe section for the bridge of Car on the Hill. untouchable. thanks for saving me today, suemc - -- "Heart and humor and humility will lighten up your heavy load ... " - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:57:30 -0400 From: Engwall57@aol.com Subject: Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter I think Martha may be a character from the Bible. There was a song Taj Mahal did, in which he says, "Mary and Martha standing by the riverside. Mary explaining to Martha, darling, look at the ocean deep and the river wi-i-i-ide - here come old Moses....he had sunshine and good things on his bond." It's called "Your Gonna Need Someone on Your Bond." Joni has quite a few biblical allusions in her lyrics. Being a PK, I tend to pick up on them. Ruth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:04:57 -0400 From: Engwall57@aol.com Subject: Re: a new Joni page (for me) I know a little Spanish - I believe this is Portuguese. Ruth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:06:08 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter <> Martha definitely IS a character in the Bible, but I'm not sure that it's the subject of the lyric in "Talk To Me". Putting it in context, the next line is: "We could talk about landscapes" Is there a significant Martha in the art world that this might have related to? I don't know, I'm just throwing it out in case it rings a familiar note with anyone. I would be more inclined to believe that she was referencing Martha Graham, the dancer & choreographer since she juxtaposed it with a painting lyric next. Bob NP: The Lovemongers, "Battle Of Evermore" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:25:50 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter In a message dated 10/17/02 5:06:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluor.com writes: > Is there a significant Martha in the art world that this might have related > to? I don't know, I'm just throwing it out in case it rings a familiar note > with anyone. Martha Stewart LOL! you know, It's a good thing.... ~rose ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:03:01 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: nonesuch In a message dated 17/10/2002 18:26:37 GMT Daylight Time, jamiezubairi@yahoo.co.uk writes: << I just thought I'd sign back on to the jmdl after nearly 8 months of not having net access. I can't wait for the new album!!! >> Hey, GREAT to see you back on the list Jamie! Hope your thespian exploits have been going well. Azeem in London NP: Portishead - Mourning Air - I swear that the first time Beth hits that high note on the chorus is one of the most thrilling moments in recorded music. It's truly spine-tingling stuff. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:11:30 -0500 From: johnirving Subject: Re:Travelogue. Well, well. Tongues are certainly wagging around here... Jim made a brilliant observation re: the Travelogue cover. Jim, you'd make a great ad man. If you'd been around the table during the discussion of the cover art, there'd be a new cover. That said, I love the painting. Those frames are just gorgeous and Joni's technique is growing by leaps and bounds. The light and form are far more flattering and real than other works. And her brushwork with the smoke indicates the girl has all the chops. To my eyes, what the cover art is saying is, "Hey gang, this disk is coming from Joni Mitchell, the painter. I'm a painter." -It also seems to be a deliberate attempt to link the last few projects together. She has settled into something here. Perhaps it's her 'smoky voice' period... As to the subject of Nonesuch... I hate to be the worry wart, but there's no new deal here. This is the old Warner deal, which contractually demanded 2 recordings. Hence her comment saying she 'may never sign another record deal.' The best we can hope for, at the moment anyway, is that Travelogue will count as one record, not two. Leaving her obligated to once more. Although, if she wanted out... and they wanted out... "sigh." Quoting Brenda... "Tom Whalley, the chairman of Warner/Reprise has been nothing but clear since he arrived last year about rejuvenating those labels as pop labels and increasing market share. He came from Interscope - a big spend, big sales kind of label. Joni's new music doesn't fit that plan." Much of Joni's present distaste for the Industry stems from this little tidbit. I recall one of her interviews she was quite bitter about the 'new guy' coming on board after promises from the 'old guy' who retired just as the ink was drying on her Warner contract. I'm certain she felt betrayed. -I also think the dirth of new material rises out of this. I don't think she wants to give Warner anything more than she has to. In a way it's all fitting when you think of it. From the beginning Joni has been 'in' the industry at the moving hand of others... Crosby sheppared her entry into the biz. Freddie Walecki's ax revived her muse. As did the oft criticized husband... he was a breath of 'the new' that kept Joni sonically interested. My gut feeling is it will take the luck of someone other than Joni to guide her to a contractua situation that would make her feel good about recording again. I hope this happens. We know she has more music in her. And perhaps some, but not a lot of poetry. But she's not the kind to push the necessary buttons herself. Heck, she doesn't even have a computer in the house. As to the Joni interview... I think we're reading too much into this compressed article. I can easily see where she's coming from. In the comic industry that I once worked in, Marvel Comics was a thriving money maker until Billionnaire Aquisition King Ron Pearlman stepped in. The giant was driven into bankruptcy and then tried to recover by pushing out 'old' talent and chasing fads like Anime. My response: I was grateful for every penny I earned in the industry. But if you asked me, I would tell you I wished the whole stack of cards would burn to a cinder. Not the form I love, but that the mindset of those who have the power would be proven horribly, horribly wrong. -That's what I feel she's wishing for. - --What I want to know is when that hunk Steve Polifka is going to hang out with me to chat Joni and break bread? Hiyas CoyoteRick. j. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:09:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter --- Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: > > "We could talk about landscapes" > > Is there a significant Martha in the art world that > this might have related > to? I don't know, I'm just throwing it out in case > it rings a familiar note > with anyone. I would be more inclined to believe > that she was referencing > Martha Graham, the dancer & choreographer since she > juxtaposed it with a > painting lyric next. I thought of Martha Graham too. Ruth, what is a PK? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:15:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Framing --- James Leahy wrote: > > BTW: The new CD is listed on the Canadian version ot > Amazon.com as a > 'Special Import' selling for $44.95, Nov. 19 > release. I guess it's not > being released here generally until a later date, > like what happened for BSN. How typical of the way things happen here in Canada. Is it us being slow, or is it those damn Yanks making us wait? Anyway, I've preordered mine from amazon.com not amazon.ca, thank you very much, since it was nowhere to be found when I checked the Canadian site, much less was it on hmv's site. And they want us to buy Canadian - yeah, right, make it available and I'll buy it; otherwise my money goes to whoever has what I'm looking for. P.S. I like the painting. Would like to get a better look at it though in a larger size. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:23:50 -0400 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: Cover art The first thing that struck me when I saw the cover art for Travelogue is *Kilauren.* Perhaps this is not even a portrait of Joni, but rather, a metaphysical blend of the two womens' faces? Or could this be the famed portrait of the daughter we are waiting for? IMHO the portrait doesn't * feel * like Joni, nor really does it really look like her. C'mon, show us the nervy broad who's pushin' 60! xo Michaelo in Quebec ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:49:50 -0700 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re:Travelogue. On 17 Oct 2002 at 17:11, johnirving wrote: > Well, well. Tongues are certainly wagging around here... > > Jim made a brilliant observation re: the Travelogue cover. Jim, you'd > make a great ad man. If you'd been around the table during the > discussion of the cover art, there'd be a new cover. It seems unlikely that it would change. As Reprise President Howie Klein said "she wears the pants in all departments when it comes to her music." I don't think it's that much of a problem, mostly because it's a double CD and the price will be much greater than any of the releases it's similar too (to me it looks more like TTT than BSN). But flipping through the rack it'll stand out as being different because of price. And I'm sure advertising will highlight songs like "Woodstock" and "Circle Game" to attract potential buyers who aren't die hard fans like us who are waiting on pins & needles for a new release. > > As to the subject of Nonesuch... I hate to be the worry wart, but > there's no new deal here. This is the old Warner deal, which > contractually demanded 2 recordings. Hence her comment saying she 'may > never sign another record deal.' The best we can hope for, at the > moment anyway, is that Travelogue will count as one record, not two. > Leaving her obligated to once more. Although, if she wanted out... and > they wanted out... "sigh." > I think it's just a matter of choosing Nonesuch to release her record as well, and that it's not necessarily a new deal. The decision was for financial and marketing purposes. (Someone I know is checking to see if there was an extension negotiated with the move, which would mean more to come, but given how quickly it happened I doubt it.) Even though there are two records left on the contract, I don't think delivery would be "demanded." If she wanted to call it quits, her lawyer could negotiate her out. I really don't think anyone would hold her feet to the fire, unless Travelogue becomes a huge success. > Quoting Brenda... > "Tom Whalley, the chairman of Warner/Reprise has been nothing but > clear since he arrived last year about rejuvenating those labels as > pop labels and increasing market share. He came from Interscope - a > big spend, big sales kind of label. Joni's new music doesn't fit that > plan." > > Much of Joni's present distaste for the Industry stems from this > little tidbit. I recall one of her interviews she was quite bitter > about the 'new guy' coming on board after promises from the 'old guy' > who retired just as the ink was drying on her Warner contract. I'm > certain she felt betrayed. -I also think the dirth of new material > rises out of this. I don't think she wants to give Warner anything > more than she has to. In a way it's all fitting when you think of it. Which old guy are you talking about, Mo Ostin? Mo did not retire. He, his son Michael and Lenny Waronker were forced out. It was a huge shock across the business. Mo is not a false promises kind of guy. Not buy a stretch. And after he left, Joni delivered new material in TTT. (In fact, there was an article where Klein talked about how Joni was "exuberant" re: working TTT.) It was 6 years between Mo leaving in 1995 and Whalley starting in 2001 (and in between were Danny Goldberg and Russ Thyret). BSN was out before there was even a hint that Whalley was going over. For me, it just doesn't add up that this is about his arrival or Mo's departure. I'm with the camp that believes that she is just more interested in painting than she is in writing music. (I also think that the level of sales for Turbulent Indigo - and all the records subsequent to it - was a disappointment, especially given all the Grammy hype that TI got.) B n.p.: Squeeze - "Is That Love" - -------------------------------------------- "Radio has no future" - Lord Kelvin, 1897 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:18:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re:Travelogue. --- Brenda wrote:> > I don't think it's that much of a problem, mostly > because it's a double CD and the > price will be much greater than any of the releases > it's similar too (to me it looks > more like TTT than BSN). But flipping through the > rack it'll stand out as being > different because of price. And I'm sure > advertising will highlight songs like > "Woodstock" and "Circle Game" to attract potential > buyers who aren't die hard fans > like us who are waiting on pins & needles for a new > release. ... which reminds me that I saw in a music store yesterday Diana Krall's new CD, which had one of those yellow stickers on the front of it saying (something like) "including Joni Mitchell's hit 'A case of you'", which is interesting because lately people on the list have been discussing the fact that average people these days don't even know about Joni's existance - which makes me wonder whether they're using Joni to sell Diana, or Diana to sell Joni; or just who the sticker info is aimed at: old fogies like me who remember Joni Mitchell (y'know the folk singer?) or young fogies who might know Diana, see the name Joni Mitchell and decide to pick up a Joni CD at the same time? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:29:58 -0700 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re:Travelogue. On 17 Oct 2002 at 22:18, Catherine McKay wrote: > ... which reminds me that I saw in a music store > yesterday Diana Krall's new CD, which had one of those > yellow stickers on the front of it saying (something > like) "including Joni Mitchell's hit 'A case of you'", > which is interesting because lately people on the list > have been discussing the fact that average people > these days don't even know about Joni's existance - > which makes me wonder whether they're using Joni to > sell Diana, or Diana to sell Joni; or just who the > sticker info is aimed at: old fogies like me who > remember Joni Mitchell (y'know the folk singer?) or > young fogies who might know Diana, see the name Joni > Mitchell and decide to pick up a Joni CD at the same time? > It's definitely using Joni to sell Diana to the old fogies like you! lol! Diana's on a different label, so they won't go out of their way to sell Joni records. I'm sure it's there because she was performing the tune in concert before it turned up on a record and they want to let people know they can finally get it. B n.p.: Tony & kd - "Moonglow" - -------------------------------------------- "Radio has no future" - Lord Kelvin, 1897 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:29:07 -0500 From: johnirving Subject: Re: Travelogue. > Which old guy are you talking about, Mo Ostin? Mo did not retire. He, his son > Michael and Lenny Waronker were forced out. It was a huge shock across the > business. Mo is not a false promises kind of guy. Not buy a stretch. And after he > left, Joni delivered new material in TTT. (In fact, there was an article where Klein > talked about how Joni was "exuberant" re: working TTT.) > > It was 6 years between Mo leaving in 1995 and Whalley starting in 2001 (and in > between were Danny Goldberg and Russ Thyret). BSN was out before there was > even a hint that Whalley was going over. For me, it just doesn't add up that this is > about his arrival or Mo's departure. Thanks Brenda for the info and clarifications. Much of my commentary, and opinion, is fed from a very poor memory. My brain is a sieve. -But there IS a Joni commentary where she mentions having a handsake 'gentleman's agreement' with the head of Warner only to have it all turn into thin air when he left. (I assumed it was retirement... not forced.) Anyway, in the interview it's obvious that Joni hits a raw nerve bringing up the subject. Perhaps one or two of you Brainiacs-Of-All-Joni-Facts remembers the interview... Yes? Brenda, given that you know these time lines better than I ever could, my brain sorta remembers this happening on the cusp of her new (present) deal. So gone or not, she had to deliver new material. (TI, TTT), but as time went along, there's less and less new about the material. As my boyfriend, Rich put it when I mentioned the threat of a Dreary Christmas CD..., "It's obvious she wants out of her contract." Keep us posted on the contractual stuff... j. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:06:48 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: nonesuch I can't wait for the new album!!! > > I'm too excited!! > > Much Joni > > Jamie Zoob > Welcome back, Jamie! Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:13:11 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter > > Is there a significant Martha in the art world that this might have related > > to? I don't know, I'm just throwing it out in case it rings a familiar note > > with anyone. > > Martha Stewart LOL! > you know, It's a good thing.... > Or Martha Mitchell? Maybe a coupla years late for that particular topical reference. Since the next line after the one about landscapes is: 'I'm not above gossip but I'll sit on a secret where honor is at stake' I always figured Martha was somebody she knew. Either Joni or the persona she's using in the song. Gossip and secrets are usually about people we know. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:29:28 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Joni's artwork a friend who met little richard a few years back said he was wearing contacts that made his eyes look like cat eyes... bob wrote >>And is it just me, or do her eyes in this painting have a feline quality about them? Reminds me of that wacky lady that had a series of cosmetic surgeries to make her face like that of her cats. Creepy.< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 23:15:43 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on the music biz and it going in the crapper In a message dated 10/15/2002 11:59:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, kakkib@vzavenue.net writes: > > > X-INFO: INVALID TO LINE > My randon reactions to the article - > > The first thing is that I had a good belly laugh at the Joni quotes! > > Then I thought a lot of other things. > > The royalties dispute with Geffen - we had a thread here long ago where I > recall that Geffen sued her for her mechanical (?) royalties to try to > re-coup her advance. I think it was Fred Simon and maybe some others who > said that such royalties are off-limits legally and it was therefore dirty > for Geffen to try to go after them (and he lost the legal fight, too.) > > On the other hand, do record companies fool around with the royalties owed > to artists? A number of artists over the years claim they do. Is it > deliberate, or is is just bad or sloppy (and sometimes arrogant) accounting > practices? Mostly the latter. Some artists also may see their songs or > albums for sale in foreign countries and think to themselves "the record > company never paid me for those!" not realizing that they are often > "pirated" product, over which the record company has little or no control, > especially in those countries where "pirating" is legal. > > Is Joni crotchety? Yeah! But it reminds me of what I've always heard > about > growing older. People cut to the chase, get more real and don't give a > damn > so much anymore with telling it like they think it is, regardless of > whether > it is correct or not. > > Does Joni need to get out more? Yes, I have thought so for awhile, now. > Maybe she should join in on the list - LOL > Joni may be right about this subject,but doesn't she seem to be a broken record?(pun intended)If I'm not mistaken she said the same exact thing in "Rolling Stone" a few years ago and about a trillion other times... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:29:31 -0700 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: Travelogue...Joni & Mo On 17 Oct 2002 at 21:29, johnirving wrote: > Thanks Brenda for the info and clarifications. Much of my commentary, > and opinion, is fed from a very poor memory. My brain is a sieve. -But > there IS a Joni commentary where she mentions having a handsake > 'gentleman's agreement' with the head of Warner only to have it all > turn into thin air when he left. (I assumed it was retirement... not > forced.) Well, all the articles said he retired cuz that was the PR line, but that's not what happened. After leaving Warner, he started Dreamworks Records with Lenny and is still there last I heard. Anyway, in the interview it's obvious that Joni hits a raw > nerve bringing up the subject. Perhaps one or two of you > Brainiacs-Of-All-Joni-Facts remembers the interview... Yes? Brenda, > given that you know these time lines better than I ever could, my > brain sorta remembers this happening on the cusp of her new (present) > deal. So gone or not, she had to deliver new material. (TI, TTT), but > as time went along, there's less and less new about the material. As > my boyfriend, Rich put it when I mentioned the threat of a Dreary > Christmas CD..., "It's obvious she wants out of her contract." > I searched the archives and found a Vogue article that talks about Mo leaving, but she certainly doesn't seem to lay any blame at his feet...in fact she comes off as being very "devil may care" about it. Maybe there was something else? http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/9504v.cfm I really think that given that Mo was her guy, if she just wanted out, they would have allowed her out after the greatest hits or certainly after TTT since it was a disappointment. Unless her lawyer really sucks, she would not have had to muster up a bunch of covers to complete delivery. As she says, she's not going to recoup, so unless the head of the company has something personally vested in keeping her, he would gladly let her go. > Keep us posted on the contractual stuff... I certainly will. B n.p.: - -------------------------------------------- "Radio has no future" - Lord Kelvin, 1897 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 23:33:33 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Live from LA -- Joni! From an article at: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/021017/143/2grar.html Sheryl Crow, Norah Jones & Others To Play Stormy Weather Walden Woods Benefit Thu Oct 17, 2:57 PM ET(10/17/02, 3 p.m. ET) -- Sheryl Crow and Norah Jones have signed on for a benefit concert with a twist. They, along with Paula Cole, Deborah Cox, Stevie Nicks, Joni Mitchell, Reba McEntire, Susan Tedeschi, and Trisha Yearwood, will perform pop, jazz, and blues standards at Stormy Weather 2002, which is described as "an evening of romance, glamour, fabulous women, and beautiful music." The show is set for November 13 at the Wiltern Theatre in Los Angeles, and tickets go on sale Sunday (October 20) at 12 noon PT via Ticketmaster. Money raised at the event will go to the Walden Woods Project and the Thoreau Institute At Walden Pond, both of which Eagles singer-drummer Don Henley founded and has been actively involved with for years. Henley was on hand at the site earlier this month as the state of Massachusetts ceded the 26.4 acre Goose Pond to the Walden Pond State Reservation, increasing the amount of protected land to nearly 360 acres. - -- Bruce Simon, New York ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:40:44 -0700 (PDT) From: John Low Subject: RE: Teach Your Children I think Joni Mitchell (particularly her early persona) can be as appealing to youngsters today as she ever was. My daughter told me that she and some of her friends are planning to tour Australia after they finish school in a couple of years. They want to buy a van and paint it with flowers etc. and their theme tune is going to be Big Yellow Taxi! This may only be a dream of hers but Clouds & LOTC seem to be permanently in the TOP 10 chart at our house! There is no past or future, just one big NOW! Back into lurkdom, John (in Sydney) Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:00:08 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: RS interview Ok, so I just read the RS interview thanks very much to Jim Johanson for putting a link on the home page. Here is the *only* reference to other artists (aside from Joan Baez, Judy Collins and Dylan earlier on in the piece): Throughout the years, the media have at times pitted you against some of the women you helped inspire. Have you ever regretted anything negative you said about any of your disciples? See, I've never liked copycats, not that these girls are necessarily copycats, or that it is even their fault. It's kind of like, "Get me a new Joni Mitchell." So they kept turning up -- they did it with Bob, too. Bob spawned his imitators closer to the beginning of his career. Mine, it took a while for them to kind of grow up or something. And every woman who ever came along has sold more records than I have -- you know, Carole King, my contemporaries, Carly Simon. Everybody, always. I don't know why, but I've never been a big record seller, like Billie Holiday. You know, Doris Day outsold Billie. If you were to run into a Britney Spears or a Christina Aguilera . . . They're sweet. Would you give them any advice? No. I mean, what can you say? I mean, that's what they've chosen. God, my granddaughter is three, and she's really rhythmic. And already she's grabbing her crotch and dancing. It's really tragic what MTV has done to the world. Because it's piped all over the world. me again: This also puts the 'grabbing your crotch' bit into context. If I read this correctly she was actually giving an explanation for the sexploitation employed by Britney & Christina, not condemning them for it, but trying to rationalize it. Personally I have no problem with her comments about MTV. What I would call a 'rant' doesn't start until the last two questions and the bit about the music business being a cesspool that she's ashamed to be part of and wanting to see it go down the crapper doesn't come until the very end and is a *very* small fraction of the whole. I'd say whoever did the Reuters blurb did a nice spin (hatchet?) job on our Joan. I thought it was interesting what she had to say about Annie Ross. I met Annie very briefly a few years ago and I got the impression that she wasn't the most warm and open person in the world. At least not to people outside of her circle or milieu, as it were. I still think she's amazing talent, though, and that impression would never stop me from listening to her or buying one of her cds. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:05:17 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Live from LA -- Joni! > Sheryl Crow, Norah Jones & Others To Play Stormy Weather Walden Woods Benefit > > Thu Oct 17, 2:57 PM ET(10/17/02, 3 p.m. ET) -- Sheryl Crow and Norah Jones > have signed on for a benefit concert with a twist. They, along with Paula > Cole, Deborah Cox, Stevie Nicks, Joni Mitchell, Reba McEntire, Susan > Tedeschi, and Trisha Yearwood, will perform pop, jazz, and blues standards at > Stormy Weather 2002, which is described as "an evening of romance, glamour, > fabulous women, and beautiful music." Tres, cool Murfman! I wonder what she'll sing this year? Mark E. in Seattle running to put BSN in the cd player. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:22:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "walterphil" Subject: early early songs this is my first post to this club so if you've already discussed these songs ad nauseum please bear with me. Do you think joni would ever consider releasing all those old radio shows (i think the versions i have are from a bbc show) she did in the mod 60's before her career really took off? i can't believe there aren't any studio recordings of some of these beautiful beautiful songs. One of them "urge for going" we know she recorded as the b side to the "You turn me on" single. wouldn't it be nice if she had recorded "eastern rain" somewhere/sometime? or on this new lp of hers--you think maybe she could have recorded one of these, instead of say "cherokee louise?" (shudder) to name a few eastern rain-what a beautiful melody- did you ever hear fairport conventions version? joni's coke commercial/things go better-even tho this is a joke song, i love it. I love it when she plays that strummy rock and roll guitair/riffing brandy eyes-ok, this one is a little corny, but sweet none the less mr. blue-ditto born to the highway-the only one i really dislike carnival in kennorra-pretty (and a bit bizarre)-very high trebbly singing here-i miss joni when she was this happy/innocent (sounding) winter lady-a beautiful perfect early joni song just like me-love her lower register here-great great song blue on blue-a little bland come to the sunshine-a sad and lovely one london bridge-ok this one is pretty unbearable- but the accompanyong story is funny go tell the drummer man-a bit strident and old fashioned these are on double cd (boot) i bought on ebay last year it seems pretty obvious that "song to a seagull" could have been a double, and while most of these are inferior to "seagulls" selections, i dearly love these. this cd also includes 2 versions of both sides now which i actually prefer to the "clouds" version. Do you think that slowed down version on "clouds" is a reaction to judy's hit version? (also on a side note--i just LOVE judy collins!-don't you? especially her early alto folk stuff.) There's also an ok version of neil youngs "sugar mountain." Neil sings a song here himself called "sweet joni". it is truly awful. there is an extra verse in "morning morgantown." "chelsea morning" sounds as fresh as the day it was written. one more thing-boy did she talk a lot back then-giggly and non-stop. (kind of like this email). I also have an old vinyl bootleg which has a studio version of a song called "good samaritan" which to me sounds like an eary version of "this flight tonight." Also on this lp is a great live version of "get together"-such strong singing/yodling. why the heck did joni quit yodling? joni joni joni-i just love her when i listen top this early stuff on another note-i just bought the rolling stone interview. those bitter comments quoted here recently certainly seem much milder in their proper context. I never get tired of reading any joni interview. of course she will continue to record! i just wish she would start writing songs again instead of the dreary orchestral monstrosities she's doing. that's all for now xxx walt ps. my fondest joni moment - riding in a car in pgh, while it was stating to snow, hearing "barangrill" on the radio for the first time. (pgh college station). That song always takes me right there. was there ever an album by anyone, that could equal "for the roses?" (ok, maybe "new york tendaberry") The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #307 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)