From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #296 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, October 9 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 296 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Library Links: October 9 [ljirvin@adelphia.net] Re: M.S.B.'s "woodstock" [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: M.S.C.'s "woodstock" + Number 1 [AzeemAK@aol.com] new album ["Marianne Rizzo" ] johnny angel [Dave Cuneo ] Re: johnny angel [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Joni in Rolling Stone [Jerry Notaro ] you know you're in . . . ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Desert Island Discs ["michael o'malley" ] Re: johnny angel [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] success ["Marianne Rizzo" ] RE: success ["Heather" ] Re: johnny angel [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: johnny angel ["Steve Polifka" ] RE: success ["Lori Fye" ] Re: joni only - self absorption ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Joni's Birthday [Les Irvin ] "A Travelogue" song order ["c Karma" ] Re: CMIRS [Susan McNamara ] Re: CMIRS [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: "A Travelogue" song order [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: CMIARS [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: CMIARS [Susan McNamara ] Re: CMIARS [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Powering Up the "Electricity" thread [Susan Guzzi ] Rod Stewart et al ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Powering Up the "Electricity" thread [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Rod Stewart et al ["Cynthia Vickery" ] Rod Stewart et al ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Rod Stewart et al [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Johnny Angel [] Re: Rod Stewart et al [colin ] Re: johnny angel/Tea Leaf Prophecy ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: greatness ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Re: Powering Up the "Electricity" thread [Susan Guzzi ] Re: Johnny Angel ["kakki" ] CMIARS & DED [vince ] Re: Rod Stewart et al ["Mark or Travis" ] [none] ["William Chavez" ] and the more out of tune voices on it the better ["jeff t." > Yes, that was one of the earliest ones we snagged, when the project was virginal and I had NO IDEA that 3 years later I'd be compiling a volume 39!! But it's been an enjoyable journey... Speaking of Volume 2, I've re-mastered the whole thing, got better source recordings (BIG thanks to Hell for the Jacqui Fitzgerald LP!!) and removed the "contributions", consolidating those on another 2-CD set. So now, Volume 2 fits on 3 cd's, there is no "disc 4". And there ARE some really nice tracks in this collection, if you want to check out what's on them go to: http://www.jmdl.com/covers/byvolume.cfm Bob NP: David Crosby & co., "Loser #1" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 07:47:21 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: M.S.C.'s "woodstock" + Number 1 Just wanted to weigh in on this version of Woodstock, which is close to my heart as it's possibly the first Joni song I ever heard. I think it's lovely, and the melody really suits Iain Matthews's voice. I much prefer it to CSN's version. As for Number 1, I've never liked it, couldn't hear a tune in there. CMIARS is a pretty weak album by her standards. I do prefer the sound of it to that of DED, even though the latter has MUCH better songs. If the songs on DED had the more organic production of CMIARS, I dare say I'd enjoy it more. Azeem in London np: Christine Collister - I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For - wow! a fabulous version, the penultimate song from Into The Light. The last is even better, an unspeakably gorgeous take on Paul Simon's Quiet, which all the many PS fans on this list NEED to hear! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 08:22:35 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: new album Hi, When is the exact date the new Joni album (somehow I still like calling them albums) coming out? Does this mean I can find it in record stores then? Marianne MPIMheart "give me the beat. . to free my soul . . . I want to get lost in your rock 'n roll. . . . . I want you to know I believe in you so. . . " _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:33:52 -0400 From: Dave Cuneo Subject: johnny angel Ciao joniphiles, " I was never quite sure what that line was and 'Johnny Angel' just sounded silly to me. Do you know how this fits into the song and why Joni put it there? I've seen the video and I still can't figure it out." dave: I have no idea! I'm sure someone else on the list might know or have a better guess. BTW, I received a copy of Joni's video "Refuge of the Roads" yesterday and was playing some of it last night (thaks Bob Muller!). Am I crazy or does it seem like Joni cannot open her mouth all the way - it looks like, and sounds, like she is singing through almost clenched teeth. Does this have anything to do with her dental problems that I have read about here on the list in the past? Or is it my imagination? dave. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 08:45:45 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: johnny angel Dave Cuneo wrote: > Ciao joniphiles, > > " I was never quite sure what that line was and 'Johnny Angel' > just sounded silly to me. Do you know how this fits into the song and why > Joni put it there? I've seen the video and I still can't figure it out." > > dave: I have no idea! I'm sure someone else on the list might know or > have a better guess. While it doesn't address the Johnny Angel question, there is a wonderful essay on the song at http://www.jonimitchell.com/EssayBeat.html. My take is that Joni brilliantly juxtaposes the horror and realities of war that her generation faced with the golden innocence of a time when Johnny Angel seemed all a girl would think about. Joni often refers to that time in her youth, a time of Sandra Dee, teased up kind of hair, poodle skirts, and big Cadillacs. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 08:54:37 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni in Rolling Stone Catherine McKay wrote: > > You've said it all. What more is there to say? (I > don't know if I'd lump Mary J. Blige in with the other > two, but my own personal jury is still out on that > count.) Mary J. is the real deal. The other two are a raw deal. Jerry np: Eminem - Goodbye to Hollywood ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 08:59:40 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: you know you're in . . . >When I first joined and >noticed NP: Dylan or Ryan Adams etc., at the end of some of the > posts..I thought Hmmm, they listen to somebody else besides Joni. > I remember even > being kind of disappointed as crazy as this might sound. I really >did.. >which is dumb, of course, because yeah..I listen to quite a few other >artists besides Joni. Anybody else think this or just me? >Bree Yeah, I had that same crazy feeling. :) Marianne _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:58:44 -0400 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: Desert Island Discs Just surfing through CBC Jazz links the other night, and I came across these little Joni mentions in the ``desert Island discs`` section of Ross Porter's ``After Hours``. He asked several jazz musicians to list their all-time faves. Surprisingly, Hejira and Court & Spark turned up on two of the lists - Patricia Barber's and Jane Bunnett's, respectively. Although Joni is not generally considered a jazz artist, per se - it's interesting to see jazz musicians' picks. You can catch this at : http://cbc.ca/afterhours/stranded.html Cheers! Michaelo in Quebec NP: Gabriela - Detras del sol ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:41:06 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: johnny angel <> And I have always heard "Charlie Angel" which further supports your point, Jerry..."Charlie" being the name that was used in Vietnam, although I forget whether we called them that or they called us that. The "Killer Kyle" story was one that Joni sat on for a LONG time. It's based on her conversations with a soldier back when she was touring in the Carolinas and was one of the few to play Fort Bragg in Fayetteville, NC (nicknamed Fayette-Nam). The same guy is the subject of "There's a man who sends me medals, he is bleeding from the war". Bob NP: Kevin Mahogany, "Blues In The Dark" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 11:19:58 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: success > All of which makes me wonder and put forth to the list this > question: > > what makes a musician/artist "successful"?? Is Joni "successful" in > your opinion? > > i welcome your thoughts. > > Mags Mags, My first thought is that "successful" to me is having passion and creativity and then working with it (WORK)...... . . . .doesn't matter if the tree falls and no one hears it. Marianne _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:34:51 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: success I think Marianne may be alluding to this .... successfulness is in the eye of the beholder, so to speak. IMO, I think many creative people do not think they are successful. I think that they think there is always something else to achieve ... something else they feel they need to do... to create. Hmmm ...are we using successful here as a finite term? Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Marianne Rizzo Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 11:20 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: success > All of which makes me wonder and put forth to the list this > question: > > what makes a musician/artist "successful"?? Is Joni "successful" in > your opinion? > > i welcome your thoughts. > > Mags Mags, My first thought is that "successful" to me is having passion and creativity and then working with it (WORK)...... . . . .doesn't matter if the tree falls and no one hears it. Marianne _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:44:47 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: johnny angel One of the many Bobs wrote: > And I have always heard "Charlie Angel" which further supports your point, > Jerry..."Charlie" being the name that was used in Vietnam, although I > forget whether we called them that or they called us that. > I think this is Joni being clever with her words again. I always hear "Johnny Angel" probably because my older sister played the Shelley Fabares hit over and over when I was a kid. You could be right Bob, it might be Charlie. It does make sense with the Vietnam situation. Joni probably muffles the word to keep us thinking. ( Kakki, next time you run into Joni, please ask her what she's singing :~) ) JimBob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:51:12 -0500 From: "Steve Polifka" Subject: Re: johnny angel Joni's singing of 'Johnny Angel' almost sounds like the Shelley Fabares song, IMHO. Steve - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Cc: ; Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 10:44 AM Subject: Re: johnny angel > One of the many Bobs wrote: > > > And I have always heard "Charlie Angel" which further supports your point, > > Jerry..."Charlie" being the name that was used in Vietnam, although I > > forget whether we called them that or they called us that. > > > > I think this is Joni being clever with her words again. I always hear > "Johnny Angel" probably because my older sister played the Shelley Fabares > hit over and over when I was a kid. You could be right Bob, it might be > Charlie. It does make sense with the Vietnam situation. Joni probably > muffles the word to keep us thinking. ( Kakki, next time you run into Joni, > please ask her what she's singing :~) ) > > JimBob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 08:56:19 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: RE: success > what makes a musician/artist "successful"?? Is Joni "successful" in > your opinion? Joni is successful, imo. Also imo, what makes a musician/artist/individual "successful" is doing with their lives what they love to do, whether it makes them any money or not. If doing what they love makes them money - or otherwise provides them a livelihood - so much the better for them. But happiness, in addition to being the best facelift, is the true measure of success for me. Lori, watching rooftops in Bethesda ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 09:12:43 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: joni only - self absorption Bree wrote: > I thought Hmmm, they listen to somebody else besides Joni. I > remember even being kind of disappointed > Anybody else think this or just me? Not me. If I'd found out that Joni is ALL that people here were listening to, I would've thought it obsessive, frightening, at the very least somewhat nerdy (albeit in a cool sort of way). If not for the members of this list and their willingness to share what else they're listening to, I would probably still not know of Jonatha Brooke*, let alone have seen her at a delightful venue with Brian G. I've learned SO MUCH about ALL KINDS of music by hanging out here. Thanks, everyone. Lori * P.S. - Terry M - where are you, woman? ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 10:39:05 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Joni's Birthday At 10/8/2002 10:06 PM, Jimmy wrote: >We all know that Joni's birthday is just around the corner. We've had some >wonderful birthday cards sent to her that I've seen for the past 4 years. >Last year, Steve Polifka made a lovely card representing JoniMitchell.com and >the JMDL. I hope some of the great graphic artist on the list can come up >with something. We have to let her know how much we still love her. And we need to get going on this real soon. Is there anyone out there who has an idea for a birthday card? Any graphic artists who wants to take a stab at this? Thanks, Les ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 17:14:17 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: "A Travelogue" song order Still an analogue mind in a digital world, I made a cassette tape (egad!) of the songs which will appear on "A Travelogue" in the order given on JoniMitchell.com. I was attempting to discern if there was a thread of continuity or a song cycle arc present by virtue of the lyrical content. I couldn't find one, but as in the case of all poetry, what speaks to me (or doesn't) may not (or, may) to another. If this is in fact the order of the songs as they will appear, some of the choices seem uncharacteristically obvious ("Refuge Of The Roads" to "Hejira") while others might be considered incongruous ("Otis and Marlena" to "Amelia"). The only conclusion I can derive from this (perhaps pointless) exercise is that the orchestral arrangements of some of these songs are likely to be MARKEDLY DIFFERENT from the versions previously recorded, which would mitigate seeming conflicts of pace and content based on this program of existing versions. I think this collection is going to be mind expansive in terms of how listeners can hear a song they've known for years for the first time. Like Joni, Vince and Larry did with "Both Sides Now", both the arrangements and vocal readings for these songs will likely place them in a whole new perspective while referencing the ones of old. Her inclusion of "Love" and "Slouching Toward Bethlehem" are grand gestures in illustrating her interpretive talents. I can't wait. CC PS: I'm sure everyone will have an opinion on the songs included in the collection, some of which we've already read. OK, here's MY only question: "Otis and Marlena?" Other than a new arrangement blowing my mind and all my preconceptions away, I would have traded any of ten other songs to take its place here. While I acknowledge Joni's topical "while Muslims hold up Washington" as having presaged the Iran hostage crisis even, I hope she didn't include the song here to remind us of that fact. Miss Cleo, she aint! "Fiction of the this is this and that is that, aaah!" -- JM _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 13:37:13 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: CMIRS > Someone wrote: "At the bottom of the heap is CMIAR. This is terrible, >in my opinion, and >not worth the money I spent on it." I really love CMIAR, especially Snakes and Ladders, if just for the line "to kiss her he has to shave." :-) suemc - -- "Heart and humor and humility will lighten up your heavy load ... " - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:08:26 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: CMIRS Snakes and Ladders has some brilliant moments, I agree. I think it's Joni at her best when she takes pot shots at people and issues without losing her lyrical abiltity to turn a phrase or her incredible gift for metaphor. "the perfect air-brushed angel, stapled into all his brain cells (like a centerfold)" or "how the seasons steal away--first you're green, then you're grey." Of course, Number One is still my favorite on that disc and I would kill to hear the acoustic version you all have spoken about! Where DED fails for me is when Joni strikes out at issues but doesn't push her lyrical twists, her play with vocabulary and her irony of word selection. I like my Joni verbose, witty, hawk-like in her observations, and so much of DED is whittled down to phrases that seem too short IMHO. Ken N/P-Deb Talan, forgiven (Who sounds so much like early Jonatha/the Story that it's spooky) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 13:59:48 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: "A Travelogue" song order <> I'm sure that was an interesting exercise, CC...I try to play some of these in my head based on the "sound" of BSN, and some like "Love & "Slouching" are easy to hear and they already sound great in my mind's ear. But you're right, unless Joni performs a meliodomy* on it, O&M is gonna be a draggy dirge. I hope for the worst, because if it is a stinker than it's what I expected, and if it's a jewel it's a "beautiful surprise"! ;~) Not that I don't like O&M - I do. I just don't think it's right for this kind of treatment...of course I would hate to be the one to tell Joni that, I would chicken out fer sher! Bob, chicken squawkin, buk buk buk BUUUUK! NP: The New York Rock & Soul Revue, "Groovin'" * a word that I just made up - it means "performing surgery on a musical piece to add a rhythm or melody that wasn't present originally. Not to be confused with "meliectomy" which takes rhythm & melody away! :~) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:32:56 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: CMIARS <> She has said that she had a real challenge putting words to Klein's music on the songs they cowrote, because his musical phrases are so short. So she was working out of her usual mode which gives those songs the unnatural feel that they have. As for Snakes & Ladders, it would have worked better with just Joni's vocal as opposed to the duet with Henley. Just my opinion...this was one of Don Rowe's faves, wish he was still around to stick up for it. Bob NP: Cowboy Junkies, "Ooh Las Vegas" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:57:08 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: CMIARS I have to agree that the whole "duet" thing was overdone on this album. She should have just stuck with Gabriel and My Secret Place as the opener, and totally shelved the Billy Idol/Tom Petty thing. yikes, that was embarrassing. Some late night partying should be kept to yourself and not recorded for posterity! Although I LOVE Cool Water. Willie works on that song. suemc >As for Snakes & Ladders, it would have worked better with just Joni's vocal >as opposed to the duet with Henley. Just my opinion...this was one of Don >Rowe's faves, wish he was still around to stick up for it. > >Bob > >NP: Cowboy Junkies, "Ooh Las Vegas" - -- "Heart and humor and humility will lighten up your heavy load ... " - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:19:12 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: CMIARS <> And nothin's better than a working Willie! :~) I agree with all of the above, and although I LOVE Gabriel's voice, the dry ethereal sound of it is so much like Joni's that it's sometimes hard to delineate the two. I would guess this one works better solo as opposed to duo. One of the reasons that the duet w/Nelson is so great is the contrast between their vocal textures, plus the fact that the song has a "desert" feel to it anyway and Willie fits that mood. Bob NP: Gillian Welch, "Hickory Wind" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:51:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Powering Up the "Electricity" thread There has been mention here of late about the now famous "Electicity" thread. I know we have had a thread concerning this masterpiece a couple of times over the years since I have been here. As I make mention again of using this song in my high school poetry classes (73- 75), along with several other Joni songs for analysis. But I have always wondered my self, about the influence this particular song had on another artist, and I am wondering if others see this as well. I am speaking specifically about Rickie Lee's "Last Chance Texaco." The use of metaphors and style I find to be uncanny. As I quickly skimmed over the "Electricity" thread from May, I did notice Mia, made some mention of a comparison back then, but no one else followed up at that time. I am of the opinion that "Elecrticity" was a direct influence on Rickie Lee writing this song - -period. So please indulge me while I post MOST of the lyrics to this piece. _______________ But you ran out of gas down the road a heap Then the battery went dead And now the cable won't reach It's your last chance To check under the hood Your last chance She ain't sounding too good Your last chance to trust the man with the star You've found the Last Chance Texaco. Well he tried to be Standard And he tried to be Mobile He tried living in a World And in a Shell There was this block-bused blonde He loved her - free parts and labor But she broke down and died And threw all the rods he gave her But this one ain't fuel injected Her plug's disconnected She gets scared and she stalls She just needs a man, that's all It's her last chance Her timings all wrong her last chance She can't idle this long Her last chance to turn her over and go Pulling out of the Last Chance Texaco __________ Assuming we all know the lyrics to Joni's Electricity, written in 72, is this not one of the single most obvious direct influences of Joni on another artist? AND one that is as successful and artistic in of its self. Without Joni's song, does this song ever get written? I am not, by any means saying it is a rip-off. I feel the song stands alone, but I have always seen a most direct influence between these two songs and I wondered if anyone else see this or has an opinion. "Last Chance Texaco" was written in 78. So I am wondering if the younger song writer went off to write her own "Starry Starry Night" again man. And did so, without drawing too much scorn, well cause it's such a great song as well. I love both of these songs and still believe Rickie's best work was her first album. Although I love several others as well. But I think she totally wrote this song based on her love and admiration of Joni and in paricular here, "Electrcity." Any thoughts, or other more obvious paraellels between Joni and Rickie, or another artist, or songs? As I sit here and my brain cells continue to decrease rapidly, I feel I may have brought this up before, way back. However, I would be interested in hearing it all over again if I did! Peace, Susan Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:03:05 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Rod Stewart et al > From: FMYFL@aol.com > Subject: Rod Stewart's new CD NJC > > Following Joni, Carli, Linda and many others, I read that Rod Stewart will be > releasing a CD of standards, "It Had to Be You.....The Great American Song > Book". > From where I'm sitting, it looks like they all jump on the standards bandwagon after JONI had a commercial success (at least in France) with BSN. Brian Ferry also recently made an album of standards. Any idea who started this trend, was it Joni or not? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:15:45 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Powering Up the "Electricity" thread <> LCT is a masterpiece of a song on a masterpiece of a record, Susan...and I think your point is well made, RLJ acknowledges Joni as an influence BUT I would add that Tom Waits (who she hung out with for a time prior to her debut) was probably also a big influence on this song. Tom's songs are full of car imagery as well as stories of people who can't connect. Unfortunately, this may be the closest we'll ever come to a collaboration between my two favorite songwriters! Thanks for printing the lyrics out - sometimes it's amazing to see them all printed out like that. Bob NP: Steve Earle, "Ashes To Ashes" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:16:51 -0500 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: Rod Stewart et al <> Rickie Lee recorded "Pop Pop" in 1991 and "Girl at Her Vaolcano" in 1992, and they both contained scads of standards (some of them not-so-standard, even!) and even sold a few copies, to boot. Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:20:18 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Rod Stewart et al > <> > > That would be a good debate...Joni would of course drop a piano on your > foot to insinuate that her project was derivative of someone else's...It > was done to my recollection as early as Harry Nilsson with "A Little Touch > of Schmilsson in the Night", which was simply beautiful, but Linda > Ronstadt's recordings with Nelson Riddle became SO popular, eventually > spawning 2 follow-ups and a box set of the whole thing, that I think lots > of singers took notice. > > Whatever the debate, it was certainly NOT Joni that got this particular > ball rolling, although I think Joni WAS the first to add a hatbox and a > ridiculous price to one...running now for cover! :~) > > Bob > Hi Bob, You're right there has always been artist doing standards in each decade. But the question I meant to ask is: didn't Joni start this LATEST trend of this decade? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:34:55 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Rod Stewart et al <> Well I suppose you can believe whatever you want to believe...Brian Ferry's project came out in '99, and Joni's in 2000. Technically, 2000 was the LAST year of the decade, with 2001 as the FIRST year of the new decade & century. So it may be more accurate spin to say that Joni's release provided the final "exclamation mark" to the concept and paved the way for her fellow artists in the decade to come! :~) Bob, feeling like a political speech writer... NP: Steve Earle, "What's A Simple Man To Do?" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. 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And believe it or not, I actually thought about that, and regretted my memory lapse, later. Just think--could've solved one of the longest running list debates with a mere handful of words. Kakki, you're our next, best hope. ;-) Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 22:32:01 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Rod Stewart et al > Any idea who started this trend, was it Joni or not? I think Linda was first and then Carly. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 18:10:50 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: johnny angel/Tea Leaf Prophecy You know, that is crazy, because that has plagued my thoughts ever since high school. I would get that in my head and keep singing it. In addition, in high school we had a "Rock N' Roll Cabaret" and a friend of mine sang, "JOhnnie Angel" which she despised. So, I had just bought Chalk Mark and would get that chorus in my head and just sing it to annoy her and appeal to myself. That song and "The Tea Leaf Prophecy" were may favorites. Especially "The Tea Leaf Prophecy" because I felt if Molly McGee could find her mate in the middle of a war, I could meet my mate one day and stay up watching late night tv with him. I am still waiting. Maybe I should get my tea leaves read?? Blair NP: Up on the Roof-Laura Nyro EDT > >One of the many Bobs wrote: > > > And I have always heard "Charlie Angel" which further supports your >point, > > Jerry..."Charlie" being the name that was used in Vietnam, although I > > forget whether we called them that or they called us that. > > > >I think this is Joni being clever with her words again. I always hear >"Johnny Angel" probably because my older sister played the Shelley Fabares >hit over and over when I was a kid. You could be right Bob, it might be >Charlie. It does make sense with the Vietnam situation. Joni probably >muffles the word to keep us thinking. ( Kakki, next time you run into >Joni, >please ask her what she's singing :~) ) > >JimBob _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 23:31:33 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: johnny angel/Tea Leaf Prophecy > I could meet my mate one day and stay up > watching late night tv with him. I am still waiting. Maybe I should get my > tea leaves read?? > no need to have your tea leaves read. It'll happen. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80,Creation 6 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:18:04 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: greatness She's certianly a 'credit to her gender'. :) She serves as a fine role model for young girls to emulate. :) Are there any more annoying things we can say, cloaking insults in pseudo-compliment? Isn't she funny about bristling at being classified as a "female", AND also bristling at being classified as a "feminist"? You gotta love her. She's the real deal. All the best, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 17:53:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Powering Up the "Electricity" thread Hi Bob, Thanks for taking this one on. I am still interested in hearing if others hear Joni in other artists as well and pointing out those similarities. When you think of all the people who credit Joni as an influence, you would think - there may be more. I would like to discover more songs, lyric style and arrangements from other artists that dictate that influence, as obviously as I think this one does. >I said: > < seen a most direct influence between these two songs and I wondered if > anyone else see this or has > an opinion.>> Spin Doctor Muller said: > LCT is a masterpiece of a song on a masterpiece of a record, Susan...and I > think your point is well made, RLJ acknowledges Joni as an influence BUT I would add that Tom Waits (who she hung out with for a time prior to her > debut) was probably also a big influence on this song. Tom's songs are full of car imagery as well as stories of people who can't connect. Point well taken, Bob. I do agree with what you say about the subject matter & being connected, having to do with her association with Waits. However, in addition I point out the massive metaphor usage here, as in "Electricity." Also, both in "Electricity" and "Last Chance Texaco" both artists seem to put themselves in the more narrative position. So it comes down to a strong influences from both sides here, I imagine. And agreeing further Waits has never exactly shyed away from a metaphor either. Afterall, "the piano has been drinking, not me." > Thanks for printing the lyrics out - sometimes it's amazing to see them all > printed out like that. > No problem, but the first verse is missing. I just wanted to center on the parts that made the point more obvious. > > Peace, Susan >NPIMH: alternating verses of "Elecricity" AND "Last Chance Texaco" Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 20:58:21 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: johnny angel I had to travel today, and took along several Joni cds that I have not listened to for a long, long time. And it was halfway through Beat of Black Wings that I released that this was the "Johnny Angel" song that everyone was talking about. I am probably so used to sampling in rap that it seemed natural to me that Johnny Angel was running as an undercurrent in this song. My friend Jerry Notaro wrote: > My take is that Joni brilliantly juxtaposes the horror and realities of war > that her > generation faced with ... golden innocence But I am going to differ on his next sentiment ... I think it is innocence itself that is being contrasted by the brilliant juxtaposition (I wish I had posted those two words first) of Killer Kyle's reality and the dream of Johnny Angel. It is not, to me, what a girl of that generation would imagine vs reality, it is innocence itself that is contrasted with reality. The overwhelming comparison to me is in (and you know I'd come up with this analogy) Eminem's "Stan" with the sweetness of the Dido sample floating against the brutal reality of Stan's madness. But even more - this means that in 1988, while sampling was already being done, Joni was one of the earlier samplers, and at that point, perhaps the most mainstream artist of those experimenting with sampling. And now I wish she had done more in that regards. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 17:40:42 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Johnny Angel Mary wrote: > "( Kakki, next time you run into Joni, > please ask her what she's singing :~) )" > > Me now: First time I saw Joni was Detroit in '98, and she told me. . . EVERYTHING BUT THE ANSWER TO THAT DAMN QUESTION, BECAUSE I FORGOT TO ASK IT!!! Totally understandable - if you are like me, being in her presence and getting the chance to chat with her, one isn't exactly prepared with the question list! ;-) > And believe it or not, I actually thought about that, and regretted my memory lapse, later. Just think--could've solved one of the longest running list debates with a mere handful of words. LOL - I somehow think people would still question her meaning even if Joni herself accompanied by two witnesses and a notary showed up and gave us the scoop from the horse's mouth! > Kakki, you're our next, best hope. ;-) O.K. if I ever meet her again, I will try to at least have the composure to remember this one question if nothing else! ;-) A friend of Joni's (who I cannot reveal to protect the innocent), did tell me who Juan and Freddie were in "No Apologies" on TTT but it is (in my discretion) too inflammatory to reveal to the general list! ;-) By the way, your email address reminded me of some huge Black Crows I saw hopping around up in Ventura today. I've seen a lot of them lately all over. Maybe it's just their season. Thought it would make a good Halloween costume - haha. Apologies to the Joni onlys for whom my post may not be sufficiently stringent in J-content ;-) Kakki . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 21:13:05 -0400 From: vince Subject: CMIARS & DED Susan McNamara wrote: > Although I LOVE > Cool Water. Willie works on that song. > Oh, Susan, I have to disagree on that - personal taste, totally subjective - that songs is so obvious to me, it cloys at me. Listening to it today, Tea Leaf prophecy was not as good as I remembered, Dancing' Clown was far better than I remembered (No, Bob, i was smoking anything), but the one song on the album that really worked for me was Beat of Black Wings. On the other hand, I found all of DED to be much better than I had remembered it as being - Joni was experimenting with different things like any great artist. I thought even Smoking Try Again - which I haven't listened to in several years - was pretty good! (No, Bob, I wasn't smoking anything.) The song almost rocks out - a lot of that album almost rocks out - if Joni had kept working that vein, I think she would have nailed it. And the lyrics to Tax Free were astounding appropriate to the current world situations. When Rod Steiger was going on and on about attacking that island country, I thought of other people going on and on about attacking other countries... NRH was my big disappointment. Other than the opening song, Night Ride Home, the rest of the album did little for me and it used to be one of my favorites. Maybe I was influenced in the past in that Night Ride Home is IMHO one of Joni's most beautiful songs. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:31:05 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Rod Stewart et al > I think Linda was first and then Carly. > Actually I'm pretty sure Carly's 'Torch' came before Linda's 'What's New?' Now I have to get up and go look. Could you hang on for a few minutes? I'll be right back.......................................Ok, I'm back. Yes. 'Torch' was released in 1981 and 'What's New' in 1983. Not sure where that fits in with the Nilsson. Mark E. in Seattle (feeling a little like Judy Garland...'talk to each other...mill around or something!') ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 23:23:45 -0400 From: "William Chavez" Subject: [none] Some may have jumped on the standard's band wagon after Joni, but Linda Ronstadt was not one of them. She was recording with Nelson Riddle since the late 70's and early 80's. Joni is unbeatable in my book, not even by Dylan comes close, but when it comes to the race towards singing standard, Linda beat Joni to the finish line. Who does it better? Linda? Joni? That is a matter of opinion. Joni did an excellent job but Linda did a great job of it too! As for all the CMIRS comments, this album coming out from someone else would have received high praises from most of you. So what if it isn't Blue or FTR. It is still a great album compared to most of the stuff put out by other people. It may not be a great Joni album but it is still a very good album and definitely worth the $8 to 10 dollars I spent on the LP back in the late 80's. I too would have ditched Idol and Petty(Despite the fact that I like Petty). "workingwilly" I like that! From now on that is who i'll be! _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 20:36:16 -0700 From: "jeff t." Subject: and the more out of tune voices on it the better Whoa. 99K of mail in my box 99K of mail. What have I unleashed good people? Maybe I've tasted too much wine with tonight's carbonara, but I'm feelin' a wee cranked... This is Jeff's House Big fans fill my Inbox Don't know who they are I point my cursor at some Muller guy I read about Lori Fye Diehard acolytes of Her Joni in Exquisite Hell They are caught up in her power To show and tell Reading those lines of verve and wit Obscure hints about mouthpiece spit New age groupies with their laptop lives Looking for the day when Siquomb Arrives I open up this evening's posts In my long neglected house Can it be I'm just as doe-eyed That Holy wine's got me soused The telephone rings, the kid comes home Pleading to be fed "Help yourself," I yell, "can't leave this room" I've lost the Sweet Bird thread Watching those profiles on my screen Alternative tunings and JoniFest scenes My sweet faced boy and our pissed off dog Anxiously await my return from the fog The more I'm with you JMDL The more I think I've blown a fuse I'm building way too much around you I think they call it self abuse Cause I was more than fine without you Jesus how do I get released...? My best, Jeff _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #296 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)