From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #295 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, October 9 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 295 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Library Links: October 8 [ljirvin@adelphia.net] ROLLING STONE/Sarah reccomendations [Cactustree78@aol.com] CMIAR ["Laurent Olszer" ] Rolling Stone [Jerry Notaro ] Re: James Taylor article in NY Times [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Les's response to the war debate [Jennymac48@aol.com] Re: Rolling Stone [David Sadowski ] Re: Rolling Stone [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Joni in Rolling Stone [Chihuahua50@aol.com] joni influence sjc [LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk] Re: Joni only ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Joni only ["Sarah Cartwright" ] Painting... [RADJSHARP@aol.com] M.S.B.'s "woodstock" [Relayer211@aol.com] Colin's beautiful thoughts [Relayer211@aol.com] joni only - self absorption ["jeff t." ] Re: joni only - self absorption ["Lori Fye" ] Re: joni only - self absorption ["Cynthia Vickery" ] Re: Joni in Rolling Stone [Catherine McKay ] Re: joni only - self absorption [Catherine McKay ] Re: joni only - self absorption [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: M.S.B.'s "woodstock" [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #413 [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #413 [Mags N Brei ] re: CMIARS ["mia ortlieb" ] Joni's Birthday [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #413 ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: JT and Joni (SJC) [CoyoteRick@aol.com] Re: joni only - self absorption [Murphycopy@aol.com] Joni in Rolling Stone ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: joni only - self absorption ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Hayseed Affectations ["jeff t." ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 03:11:54 -0400 From: ljirvin@adelphia.net Subject: Today's Library Links: October 8 On October 8 the following items were published: 1998: "Balm From a Musical Touchstone" - Atlanta Journal and Constitution (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/981008ajc.cfm 1998: "Taming the Tiger" - Hartford Courant (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/981008hc.cfm - -------- Can you type? http://www.jmdl.com/typing/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 05:14:15 -0400 From: Cactustree78@aol.com Subject: ROLLING STONE/Sarah reccomendations I realize im a lil late on this subject but my mail is being fowarded so I just recieved this months Rolling Stone today...Im not suprised that Joni was left off cause as we've thought millions of times our Queen Joni never gets her due...Its amazing to me that most of the artists on the list say Joni was an influence so why isnt the influence on the list..But thank god Linkin Park is on the list cause you know how prolific they are(sarcastic)..To Sarah I urge you to give Clouds another shot..I love Clouds granted not as intricate as her 70s albums but whattan artful masterpiece lyrically and at times musically..Song about the midway...I dont know where I stand...The gallery...et al...As for as what to get next well if I were you id get For The Roses...Its full of amazing songs..great performances (Steve Stills on blonde in the bleachers for example)just take your time and enjoy one at a time.. its an amazing ride so hold on tight.. honestly its takin me a bit to get into Dog Eat Dog but it also took me forever to get into Hissing and now its one of my faves...Hope all are doin well in jmdland...peace love and happiness to you all*********kev******* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 14:18:10 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: CMIAR > From: Deb Messling > Subject: Re: CMIAR > > Gee, I've always put Number One on my Worst list. What do you like about > it? I'm not baiting you, I'm genuinely interested. > > Great lyrics, great beat (or "pulse" as Bob so eloquently said). I heard the live version way before CMIAR came out (Long Beach 86 in person, and Amnesty 86 on TV) and always liked it. I guess it brings you back to earth whenever you think you're #1 (as my Jewish mother always believed). Perhaps a great deal of these discussions (I don't mean necessarily with you Deb) about for example liking Songs to a Seagull and hating DED boil down to the "folk" era lovers not liking the other stuff and vice versa? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 08:22:33 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Rolling Stone Rolling Stone's upcoming Women In Rock and Roll issue will include stories and photographs of 37 major women talents. Joni is one of them. I saw a sneak peak of her photo and it is sensational. Jerry np: Why Do Fools Fall In Love - Forest Hills ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:24:57 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: James Taylor article in NY Times <> Just some thoughts: 1. He's writing new songs. They may not be very different from the style he's written in his whole career, but he is introducing new product into the market. 2. He tours, and in his shows he deliberately includes "old favorites" that people want to hear. On her last tour, I'm sure there were many people who left disappointed because Joni was not playing their favorite oldies. Of course, that's not what she's about and I'm not saying she should do that. I'm just saying that there ARE consequences to not "playing the game". 3. He doesn't come off as bitter as Joni does in interviews, and he doesn't constantly badmouth the business that's given him a very comfortable life. Again, I'm not saying that Joni should mimic this behavior, just that there are consequences to her promotional style. Bob NP: Damien Jurado & Rose Thomas, "Wages Of Sin" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:55:21 EDT From: Jennymac48@aol.com Subject: Les's response to the war debate Thank you Les. You are the reason this list works. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 09:12:23 -0500 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: Rolling Stone I started reading Rolling Stone around 1969 and one of the very first issues I have has Joni on the cover. Interesting that with the death of the "folk boom," Joni wasn't marketed as a folk artist. After initially being sympathetic to her and writing positive reviews, RS eventually turned on her... at one point, in the 70s, writing that she wanted to be a man. Then, they more or less stopped writing about her almost completely. For years almost nothing positive was written about her by Rolling Stone... Thus it was pretty ironic when they had a special issue devoted to the 100 top women in rock all-time, and she made the list. They were giving her iconic status, after having run her down for years. What a joke. But then again, the magazine went way downhill years ago... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 10:34:38 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Rolling Stone <> Further to that, she's been VERY vocal about her distaste for being segregated as a "woman" in rock & roll, and about these "top women" specials they do from time to time. I would submit that RS puts her in there as a jab to her outspoken attitude about the subject. Bob NP: Radiohead, "Anyone Can Play Guitar" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 10:36:25 -0400 From: Chihuahua50@aol.com Subject: Joni in Rolling Stone Rolling Stone is doing another "women in rock" issue and there is an article on Joni and a nice photo inside. I was hoping they would do something radical like put Joni on the cover by herself. Instead they put Brittney Spears, Mary J. Blige, and Shakeera on the cover. Don't get me started. Frank ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 17:01:57 +0100 From: LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk Subject: joni influence sjc this from newspaper The Guardian's archive. thought it might interest some... Classical Prom 17: Turnage premiere <<...OLE_Obj...>> Royal Albert Hall, London/ Radio 3 Andrew Clements Friday August 2, 2002 The orchestral triptych that Mark-Anthony Turnage is writing as the BBC Symphony's associate composer will heard be heard complete next January. The first movement was introduced a year ago; the central and largest panel was the premiere in last night's prom, conducted by Andrew Davis. Uninterrupted Sorrow is the only section of this composite work to employ a full orchestra, and a big one at that: quadruple woodwind, four horns. Though the title, borrowed from a Joni Mitchell song, suggests music that is melancholy and introspective, the 15 minute piece turns out to be much more outward going and finally optimistic; moments of reflection are confined to the introductory sequence of chilly chords and the rather austere first theme, unfolded by a pair of flutes. What follows, as the rhythmic energy and the level of disssonance steadily increase, is a sequence of duets spotlighting sections of the orchestra in turn, in an almost concertante style. The clarinets pick up where the flutes leave off, the oboes take over, and eventually the brass cuts in, with bracing horn figures, stabbing trumpets, and an explosively virtuoso break for trombones. The perspectives constantly change, until the music suddenly finds itself back where it began, for a coda that attempts to return to the mood of the opening, delicate and subtly coloured. How Uninterrupted Sorrow will fit into the scheme of the completed triptych remains to be seen, but standing alone it is an effective orchestral showpiece. Davis's performance had the typical authority that he brought to everything he programmed when he was the BBCSO's chief conductor, and the rest of the concert was equally well presented. There was a supple, perfectly proportioned account of Debussy's Prilude ` l'Aprhs-midi d'un Faune, and a slightly less convincing one of Ravel's Piano Concerto for the Left Hand, in which the soloist Louis Lortie seemed too intent on over-civilising what is one of Ravel's darkest and most threatening scores. Vaughan Williams's Blake inspired masque for dancing, Job - half ballet, half symphonic suite - is a Davis speciality, and he presented it as the fascinating transitional work it is. The conflict between modal God and chromatic Satan, with diatonic Job caught in between, looks back to the early pastoral works and forward to the violence and energy of the later symphonies; some of it is beguiling, some of it tendentious, but Davis clearly believes in every note. 7 Rebroadcast on Radio 3 next Tuesday at 2 pm. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 19:14:11 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Re: Joni only ----- Original Message ----- From: Sarah Cartwright To: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com ; olszer@xlsecurity.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 2:13 PM Subject: Re: Joni only Fantastic to hear your views, LOTC was the 1st one I bought and I think sub-consciously you do tend to use your 1st as a kind of benchmark. I was so amazed when I listened to THOSL and Hejira, soo different in style to what I was used to. There are still a few songs that just 'don't do it for me' at all e.g.The jungle line ( I have read a few similar posts about that one!), the song Hejira, shadows & light. But as Laurent says it is a matter of personal taste. Now I'm starting to learn more about Joni's life through the book Shadows & Light, it is fascinating to learn what was happening in her life when she was writing a particular song / album. Its like looking at a painting when you know about the artist's life, it makes it all the more compelling and magnetic. I do find it incredible that one song can literally make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up and the next leaves me cold. I am absolutely obsessed with A Strange Boy at the moment ( I have noticed this happens with Joni - it was The Priest / For Free in LOTC), quite literally need to listen to it at least 5 times a day!!!! such sexy instrumentals. Hi Sarah I've noticed over the years that the songs I like at first on a CD are often not my favorites after a few listens. Perhaps they were "easy access" but turn out to lack the complexity that makes one discover new things at each listening. Conversely, songs I never cared for may just "click" on the 10th listen. Then again some songs I'll like forever, Strange Boy is one of them. Be careful not to OD though. You can get too much of a good thing. What else do you listen to? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 18:32:48 +0100 From: "Sarah Cartwright" Subject: Re: Joni only Hi Laurent, I am a total sucker for finding a favourite then ODing on it I have to admit! Other artists I am listening to at the moment are Ryan Adams ( have seen him 3 times - fantastic each time!), Beth Orton, although don't like Daybreaker as much as her earlier stuff, also heard a bit of Wilco recently who I find quite intrguing. and then of course there's Joni for the remaining 23 hours of the day!! and you? > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:53:26 EDT From: RADJSHARP@aol.com Subject: Painting... Dear Joni folk, Normally I am content to look at the digests through a knothole. But yesterday my wife gave me Joni's DVD for my birthday. My love for the two brightest, most talented and lovely women in my life has never been higher, wider or deeper. SIQUOMB Bob [not Dylan] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 16:39:25 -0400 From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: M.S.B.'s "woodstock" Has anyone heard the cover version of "Woodstock" by a band called "Matthew's southern comfort"?I have the song on CD.I like it,it's very mellow and relaxing but the band doesn't put much energy into the song,imo. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 16:44:04 -0400 From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Colin's beautiful thoughts I really love reading Colin(Catman's)posts.There is so much kindness and and love and compassion in his posts.I find them very inspiring.It's a shame there isn't more compassion in our crazy,violent world. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 14:47:41 -0700 From: "jeff t." Subject: joni only - self absorption Ha ... you probably thought some idjit was about to blast your heroine. Not likely. I only wish to 'welcome' myself to this fine gathering of, uh, heart and humor and humility. Being Joni's hugest fan (snicker), I was simply unaware that others kind of like her. (Do you even tolerate this level of glibness?) So even though the baby needs shoes and I'm busted...I've spent the last 30 some hours, off and on cause I'm well adjusted, trawling your waters. Oh what bounty. The Electricity Thread was worth the price alone. I refrain from relating my own tangle with this song, it's just satisfying to know others have wrestled alongside and independently of, me. Such attunement to detail in this community, I am sure I'll actually, one day, have something to say. It does, however, pain me greatly to know that some of you may have live performances hitherto unheard through my speakers. Oh but I am resourceful...and only kidding about baby's shoes and empty pockets. I'll come clean your houses if I get a previously unknown twist (via recording, stay with this blather) on one of her works. (Do you guys require capitalization of Her?) Thank you to all who keep this resource going. And to those listed in 'Meet the Staff'...Bravos, kudos, and glad tidings I heap on you. Sincerely, a word here or there aside, Jeff _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 15:12:15 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: joni only - self absorption Wow, Jeff!!! Yours may be the very best self-intro to the JMDL I've ever read! WELCOME! > (Do you even tolerate this level of glibness?) Absolutely. Bring it on! > (Do you guys require capitalization of Her?) Yes, please. ; ) > Bravos, kudos, and glad tidings I heap on you. So glad to have you aboard!! Please post often! Lori in MD ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 17:19:31 -0500 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: joni only - self absorption welcome, jeff! glad to have you among us. post often, and you can start out right now by telling us what album/song started your addiction to our joan. (extra points from me for liking "wild things run fast" but hating "dog eat dog," in case you're keeping score at home. jump in with both feet.... new energy, new analysis and new opinions are always welcomed. funny.... that's what my christmas cards said last year. again, and heartily - welcome! cindy _______________________________________ Cindy Vickery Daniel Corporation 205-443-4718 direct 205-443-4615 facsimile http://www.danielcorp.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 00:57:37 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Colin's beautiful thoughts I have been sitting here wondering how to repsond to this. I thought not to respond but that seems rude. I just don't know what to say really. Thank you? I am glad you are inspired tho. tho really i am as full of shit as anyone else. It was nice to read. better than being told to seek medical attention.....! Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > I really love reading Colin(Catman's)posts.There is so much kindness and and love and compassion in his posts.I find them very inspiring.It's a shame there isn't more compassion in our crazy,violent world. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80,Creation 6 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 20:30:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni in Rolling Stone --- Chihuahua50@aol.com wrote: > Rolling Stone is doing another "women in rock" issue > and there is an article on Joni and a nice photo > inside. I was hoping they would do something radical > like put Joni on the cover by herself. Instead they > put Brittney Spears, Mary J. Blige, and Shakeera on > the cover. > > Don't get me started. You've said it all. What more is there to say? (I don't know if I'd lump Mary J. Blige in with the other two, but my own personal jury is still out on that count.) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 20:42:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: joni only - self absorption --- "jeff t." wrote: > Ha ... you probably thought some idjit was about to > blast your heroine. Not > likely. I only wish to 'welcome' myself to this > fine gathering of, uh, > heart and humor and humility. Welcome to the list, Jeff. Some of us have to wish ourselves happy birthday, so we might as well welcome ourselves too - otherwise who the hell else would? Interesting your thinking you were the "only one". We all thought we were the only one at some point. How wrong we were (& thankfully so.) Joni-virgins no more? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 21:08:40 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: joni only - self absorption **The Electricity Thread was worth the price alone.** Welcome!! This comment makes me think youse has been lurking here awhile, Jeff. Anyway, thanks for de-lurking and now that you're out here stay out! :~) Bob NP: Gregg Cagno, "The Collective Riff Consciousness" (live at the Full Moon) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 21:17:22 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: M.S.B.'s "woodstock" In a message dated 10/8/02 4:40:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Relayer211@aol.com writes: > Has anyone heard the cover version of "Woodstock" by a band called > "Matthew's southern comfort"?I have the song on CD.I like it,it's very > mellow and relaxing but the band doesn't > put much energy into the song,imo. > Hey Relayer, yes Mathew's Southern Comfort is on "Covers & Contributions" Vol. 2, Disc 4. (one of Muller's first cover CD's). I listened to it again, and you're right. It's very mellow. I think they were smoking a lot of ganja at the time, (which was quite the norm at the time). Still a nice version though! Jimmy (who was just in Jamaica and the musicians didn't know Joni's Ganja Line :~) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 21:49:24 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #413 > Over the years, one > could reasonably argue JT has been a bigger commercial success than JM. > > I think that's a gross understatement. JT has had a zillion more hit > singles than JM, even throughout the 80's. And, generally speaking, his > songs are simply more...simple...which makes them resonate with the > "general public." I'm not knocking him at all, I've always loved his work > (though I don't own any of it). He is hands-down a bigger commercial > success than Joni. I don't think it's likely that a marketing campaign > could bring Joni up to JT's commercial level, but I do think her record > company, as I've complained before, could do a much better job of promoting > her work. > > Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:55:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #413 - --- BRYAN8847@aol.com wrote: > > Over the years, one > > could reasonably argue JT has been a bigger commercial success than > JM. > > > > I think that's a gross understatement. JT has had a zillion more > hit > > singles than JM, even throughout the 80's. And, generally speaking, > his > > songs are simply more...simple...which makes them resonate with the > > > "general public." I'm not knocking him at all, I've always loved > his work > > (though I don't own any of it). He is hands-down a bigger > commercial > > success than Joni. I don't think it's likely that a marketing > campaign > > could bring Joni up to JT's commercial level, but I do think her > record > > company, as I've complained before, could do a much better job of > promoting > > her work. > > All of which makes me wonder and put forth to the list this question: what makes a musician/artist "successful"?? Is Joni "successful" in your opinion? i welcome your thoughts. Mags ===== You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 21:56:58 -0500 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: CMIARS Dave, thanks for clue-ing me into the 'Johnny Angel' chorus from "Beat of Black Wings". I was never quite sure what that line was and 'Johnny Angel' just sounded silly to me. Do you know how this fits into the song and why Joni put it there? I've seen the video and I still can't figure it out. BTW, "Number One" is an awesome song! Great rhythms!! Mia _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 23:43:45 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Joni's Birthday Hi J.J. and fellow jmdler's We all know that Joni's birthday is just around the corner. We've had some wonderful birthday cards sent to her that I've seen for the past 4 years. Last year, Steve Polifka made a lovely card representing JoniMitchell.com and the JMDL. I hope some of the great graphic artist on the list can come up with something. We have to let her know how much we still love her. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 20:28:16 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #413 > All of which makes me wonder and put forth to the list this question: > > what makes a musician/artist "successful"?? Is Joni "successful" in > your opinion? > > i welcome your thoughts. > > Mags Good question, dearest Mags! I would say definitely yes, Joni is a successful musician/artist. For one, even though she may not have sold as many albums as Michael Jackson or even JT, she still has been able to make her living from her music. To most artists I think that alone would qualify her as a successful artist. I know a couple that I went to college with. We were all in theatre, all wanted to become actors. This couple went on to graduate school and then got jobs in Ashland Oregon for several years at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival. They eventually moved to Seattle and as far as I know have been earning their living in the theatre ever since. You would not know these people (even though Jeanne has appeared on Broadway and television and was nominated for a Tony award several years ago) but I count them as successful because they are acting - not waiting tables or working behind a desk - and making a reasonably good living at it. Another reason I think Joni should be counted a success is that, even though she hasn't had but a handful of bona fide hits, she has managed to stay in the game, putting out an album ever few years on a regular basis all through her recording career. And on major record labels to boot. Joni also has earned the respect of many of her peers. Musicians almost unanimously revere her as one of the greatest and most influential of our time. That certainly makes her successful in my book. Finally, I think Joni is a huge success because she has never let her work become stagnant. She continues to challenge herself and her audience. Which is also part of the reason why she is not a top-selling singer/songwriter. My theory about Joni's career is that she came on the scene at a time that was ripe for her to make an impression. Artists like Judy Collins and Joan Baez and Bob Dylan had already become major stars of the folk/rock/singer/songwriter genre. Social unrest in the US brought a certain new edge and intelligence to popular music. Joni was bound to get some attention for being so unique and producing such fresh and creative music. Plus there was the fact that people like Judy Collins were covering her songs. As she developed, interest in her grew. By the time she made 'Court and Spark', her development had almost completely dove-tailed with the popular tastes of the day. The three hit songs off of that one album, although not her first were probably her last. Joni may have tapped into the tastes of the mainstream but since that was never her goal to begin with, she didn't stay there. She kept going on her own solitary path (see 'Judgment of the Moon & Stars'). So people eventually lost interest in her. For whatever reason, people like James Taylor still hold the public's attention. But Joni's music being the complex, challenging and evolving stuff that it is is not what people seem to be looking for anymore. Mark E. in Seattle (who got promoted recently and is starting a new job) Now what...what...(I don't know can you tell me what?) What is success Is it doing your own thing Or to join the rest? Or do you truly believe In trying over and over again? Living in hopes That some day you'll be in with the winners - - Allen Toussaint (thinking of Bonnie Raitt's version here) or Got to be a winner trophy winner got to hold your head up high Number One Number One Honey tell me when your working day is done Were you reaching for the high rung? Reaching to be number one? - -guess who? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 00:05:58 EDT From: CoyoteRick@aol.com Subject: Re: JT and Joni (SJC) In a message dated 10/8/02 6:49:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time, BRYAN8847@AOL.COM writes: Hi Bryan: > >I think that's a gross understatement. JT has had a zillion more hit > > singles than JM, even throughout the 80's. And, generally speaking, his > > songs are simply more...simple...which makes them resonate with the > > "general public." I'm not knocking him at all, I've always loved his work > > > (though I don't own any of it). > > Now me: > > I stipulate, in this case, to being the master of understatement. It > pained me to even write that, since I think so much of JM and continue to > be mystified by her lack of commercial appeal. Why don't they get it? It > made it easier to write by making a non-committal and flagrantly flighty > comparison. I, on the other hand, have succumbed to the charms of JT over the years and am a > member of the general public who own most of his works. He was > terrific in his performance at the Hollywood Bowl on the 4th of July. The > tradition of LA area folks making their way to the Bowl for 4th of July > fireworks concerts puts extra pressure on the Bowl to have "mainstream" > performers of no controversy. Typically, one will find Patti LaPone (sp?) > a Mauceri favorite, Trisha Yearwood, Peggy Lee (GRHS), and others of > similar mainstream-ness performing. The Patti LaBelle choice of a few > years back was unfortunate. (I love her, but her antics on stage, however > correct, were in horrid taste). Their choice of JT this year, performing > with orchestra conductor John Williams, put him in a class different from > any other in which I have considered him to reside. He also helped fill > the 20,000 seat venue, which was sold-out. Thanks for responding to my post, and thanks again, Deb, for bringing the issue up for discussion. No regrets, Coyote Rick Casa Alegre Hollywood, California "Only fools are afraid to be burned by fire..." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 00:30:41 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: joni only - self absorption Welcome, Jeff! You said: << Being Joni's hugest fan (snicker), I was simply unaware that others kind of like her. >> Why, yes, Jeff . . . fact is, others do "kind of like her." But the big news is, you've just discovered your *real* family, as disturbing as that may seem right now. But trust us, you'll get used to it. Just like we did. Unlike your other family, all 800 of us know all the words to "River" and are looking forward to getting together with you over the holidays just to sing it! But if we happen to be busy, you know, with the holidays and all, and if you happen to be a drifter, well then head right on over to the SCJoniGuy Fest in South Carolina. Fresh salmon frying and covers Frisbees flying whenever Muller's not looking. Trust me, there is a God. And as far as being Joni's biggest fan, you'll soon discover that size doesn't matter at all here on the JMDL. (At least that what everyone at Jonifest says during "The Circle Jerk.") << (Do you guys require capitalization of Her?) >> For Joni, no. But for a few of the regular JMDL female-centric posters, it is strongly recommended. (Hi, Susan! Hey, Alison! MG? Where are ya? Hugs, Ashara! Mmmawh, alla youse!) << And to those listed in 'Meet the Staff'...Bravos, kudos, and glad tidings I heap on you. >> Thanks, Jeff, it's nice to get kudos, etc. We usually get threats from a woman in Jersey. Long story. Anyway, I am much better looking than the photo Les has there on the site. In reality, I look a lot more like a younger, more relaxed, dreamy-eyed and poetic Matt Damon type with a taut swimmer's build! And you? Enjoy your time here. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 22:01:32 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Joni in Rolling Stone LOL...well that says it all... >I was hoping they would do something radical like put Joni on the cover by herself. Instead they put Brittney Spears, Mary J. Blige, and Shakeera< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 01:10:54 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: joni only - self absorption .com> wrote: > Ha ... >you probably thought some idjit was about to > > blast your heroine. Not > > likely. I only wish to 'welcome' myself to this > > fine gathering of, uh, > > heart and humor and humility. > >Interesting your thinking you were the "only one". We >all thought we were the only one at some point. How >wrong we were (& thankfully so.) Joni-virgins no more? too funny..speak for yourself about the virgin bit. When I first joined and noticed NP: Dylan or Ryan Adams etc., at the end of some of the posts..I thought Hmmm, they listen to somebody else besides Joni. I remember even being kind of disappointed as crazy as this might sound. I really did.. which is dumb, of course, because yeah..I listen to quite a few other artists besides Joni. Anybody else think this or just me? Bree > >===== >Catherine >Toronto > >______________________________________________________________________ >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 22:31:50 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: success mags asked >>what makes a musician/artist "successful"?? Is Joni "successful" in your opinion? << mags, this is great question, was just thinking this very thing...i am in the first third of reading the shadows & light book (thanks ken!)...so far, if the facts are correct, it is pretty clear that her interest in music is soley about creativity...& if that is her yardstick for success (which i think it really is) then i say absolutely...she is one of the most successful musicians ever... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 23:01:03 -0700 From: "jeff t." Subject: Hayseed Affectations I am touched by the outpouring. Sally Field comes to mind. So in no particular order and with the understanding I am fearful of electronic errors of etiquette... Do you suppose, Vince, that I have enough time on my hands to hunt down any ol' arcane reference? Well I don't. But I did. Twelve articles later and I'm newly versed in one apocryphal tale. McCarthyism, evangelism, and moralism...whoa! It sure was easy to keep the kids in line at soccer practice today, thanks to you. And Bob(scjoni guy), I need to can your ass as head detective. I cannot be flushed so easily, for a few hours is all it takes to rove aimlessly through the archives where an actual link, bold as Britney at a boy's bash, beckoned me to the afore-mentioned Electricity Thread. Lurker indeed. For dessert I sampled some of Sweet Bird, same location. But here I toss you a bone, or a rose, or a hatchet to bury, for I AM familiar with the official JM site. I even sent an e-mail once upon a time for they lacked the David Baerwald/teasing back vocal connection. I do my part. However, this place smells differently and maybe I avoided it for fear of losing intimacy. Aw hell, I'm no better than the man who owns a store... So thanks also to you, Lori, for compiling two of those threads. I began 'Mother's Day' but regretfully quit early to extinguish a kitchen fire. I still need to re-read your message though for I swear it lacked any trace of sarcasm. Sarcasm. Now that's a funny concept, huh Bob (murphycop)? Or do I call you Master Damon? I am eager to experience a gathering such as the very one you described. Salmon, frisbees, circle-jerks, and a lacing of fem-centrics...Who could offer me more...? I do owe a note of apology to Catherine cause I may have misled her. Hell, I flat out lied. I of course knew there were others, but as I fumbled to explain above, it wasn't easy acknowledging your collective presence. I want to be the only one to end a conversation with a near stranger by cryptically smiling and uttering "No Regrets Coyote." Oh you should see the mailman's face. Which lastly brings me to you Cynthia. I am not an addict. I can quit anytime I want. But I guess my real 'healthy appreciation' of Joan came the first time I heard Diamonds In the Rust. Choked me up. (Wink wink) I need time for that question, please. You guys are great, I think, so thanks. Jeff _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #295 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)