From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #276 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, September 23 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 276 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in History: September 22 [ljirvin@adelphia.net] Today's Library Links: September 22 [ljirvin@adelphia.net] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #385 [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Painting 'Starry Night' with different colours ["William" ] Re: JT - SJC [Bobsart48@aol.com] joni's words [dsk ] Mingus article [dsk ] JT's contribution to Blue [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Blue ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Robin Holcomb again - this time with added Joni content! [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Blue ["Kate Bennett" ] James and Joni [Chuck Eisenhardt ] Re: James and Joni ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: jonimitchellfans list warning [Les Irvin ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #386 [Kardinel@aol.com] Apology [Bruce Kimerer ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #386 ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: revisiting dog eat dog [Michael Paz ] Re: CLARIFY DJRD COMMENT ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 03:01:05 -0400 From: ljirvin@adelphia.net Subject: Today in History: September 22 1986: Joni performed at Farm Aid in Champaigne, Illinois. More info: http://www.jonimitchell.com/FarmAid85.html - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 03:01:05 -0400 From: ljirvin@adelphia.net Subject: Today's Library Links: September 22 On September 22 the following item was published: 1994: "It's time to pay that debt to Joni Mitchell" - San Diego Union-Tribune (Biography, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/940922sdu.cfm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 03:15:01 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #385 Owen suggested that Joni redo the songs of "Dog Eat Dog" without... uhmmm.... how do I say this delicately...... without Thomas Dolby's overbearing, damnable, ham fisted production touches this time. I'm not looking at the CD to verify, but I believe Dolby only produced or co-produced two or three of the DED songs.... Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 13:23:33 +0100 From: "William" Subject: Painting 'Starry Night' with different colours Joni talking about BSN; "Singing my own material, I often worked on not being a showy singer," she explains. "The point was to deliver the text with emotional honesty and because of the density of the lyrics there was no room for embellishing. But this music allows the voice to string out like a fishing line and ride the curves like a surfer. And when you're singing with an orchestra and all that brass swells up, you've got no choice but to let it carry you, to sing louder and brighter and do things you maybe never did before. Most pop music is very compressed and even, but when you're out there in front of all those instruments and you hear that huge sound coming at you, it's a thrilling, Big Kahuna moment." Should be interesting to see how she sings her old songs 'louder and brighter' 'not being a showy singer'. Roll on November! WtS ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 10:00:41 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Blue Kasey wrote:: "My friend is also sending me the Blue CD. Do you have this one?" May I answer on behalf of the entire list ? "YES !" "What are some of your favorite tracks? " The correct response is 'all ten of them'. Of particular note are the closing three tracks - perhaps the most emotionally open and musically gripping finishing stretch in the history of popular music. Bob S. PS - for many years, if asked, I would have replied that 'Little Green' was the least strong song on the album. Then, I found out what it was about. When you get the album, let us know what you think Little Green is about (if you do not already know). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 14:19:11 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: DJRD and Dog Eat Dog In a message dated 22/09/2002 18:36:57 GMT Daylight Time, kimerer@taconic.net writes: << I've tried re-sequencing it in different ways, just for fun, to see if there's a better (in my mind) single album there. This is what I've come up with: Side One: Cotton Avenue Paprika Plains Side Two: Otis and Marlena 10th World Dreamland Don Juan's Reckless Daughter >> Ah, Bruce, how could you leave off The Silky Veils of Ardor?? Glad to see you left Side 3 intact, though. My two penn'orth on the modest proposal to agitate for the release of an "unplugged" Dog Eat Dog: YES, DO IT! I find the production horrible, clanky and dated. It sounds as 80s as Cameo's Word Up! album, which sounded state-of-the-art then, and is all but unlistenable now. I wouldn't say the same about DED, but I still find all the noises obtrusive - and as far as I'm concerned Thomas Dolby is the culprit. Another producer looking to add his distinctive sound to a recording, so much that it ends up sounding like him (and it is invariably a he), even unto sounding less like the artiste. Mitchell Froom is instructive in this regard. While I think he's very talented and I like his sound a lot of the time, there was a period when he was producing some very disparate artists (Suzanne Vega, Los Lobos, Richard Thompson, Elvis Costello, Crowded House), and they all ended up sounding like Mitchell Froom records! Azeem in London, escaping from the dreaded tax return NP: Robin Holcomb's first album, inspired by yesterday's concert. It sounds absolutely wonderful, a truly individual voice and talent PS Bruce, you've probably realised this by now, but you copied the whole digest into your post to the list. The JMDL police will be battering at your door ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 15:08:24 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: DJRD and Dog Eat Dog **Ah, Bruce, how could you leave off The Silky Veils of Ardor?? ** Or "Talk To Me"? Or "Off Night Backstreet"? Or "Jericho"? And left 10th World ON??? Bob, reeling with wooziness - LOL! NP: Ed Harcourt, "Those Crimson Tears" (another 'best of 2002' candidate) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 20:27:03 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #274 > Enough already. Dog Eat Dog's a fine recording without any revisitng. The > songs' arrangements are fine. here here!(or is it hear hear?) - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80,Creation 6 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 15:24:40 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: JT - SJC Stephen wrote "I agree wholeheartedly agree with you except I don't see James Taylor in that group. I wonder what Join thinks of his music. I find him so so boring." Well, I can understand how you feel about that, Stephen. And my actions suggest that I agree with you - I stopped buying his albums after the first 4 or so, even though I like some of what he produces (to the extent that I hear it on the radio), and only occasionally listen to his music. I would say this, though, about JT: 1. He is perhaps the outstanding presenter of the lullaby of my generation - - at that form, he excels, IMO. 2. He is quite an interesting guitarist. I learned quite a bit from learning how to play a number of the songs from his first few albums (I am an 'amateur' , so you might want to factor that in to your reaction). If you play, have you tried any of his material ? 3. I think his accompaniment on Blue (All I Want, California and A Case of You) was quite tasteful, and added a lot to those songs. 4. I think he made great strides over his career as a performer, and became quite good in concert. As an aside, circa 1973 or so, Paul Simon's brother Eddie (who ran a guitar study school in NY) volunteered to me that his brother did not particularly respect JT's work. It does seem to me that JT did not 'keep changing' to the extent that JM (or Paul Simon, for that matter) did. As for boring - I assume you mean his music, rather than him (or could that have been part of the problem with JM and Carly ?) ;-) Bob S ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 16:11:09 -0400 From: dsk Subject: joni's words In today's NYTimes there's an article about D.D. Allen, a designer (whatever happened to the term "interior decorator") who's designed huge living spaces for clients but who now prefers to live in very small spaces herself. At the start of one of the paragraphs, a Joni phrase is used, even including the comma: "The designer has looked at size from both sides, now. In the late 1970's, she and Joe Allen, the Manhattan-based restaurateur, bought a rambling seven-bedroom 1820 house in Dorset, Vt. "That cured both of us from wanting a large house," said Mr. Allen..." For people curious about the topic in general, the whole article is here: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/19/garden/19ALLE.html So, apparently "looked at [whatever] from both sides, now" is becoming part of the language (in the U.S. anyway), along with "paved paradise" and as someone mentioned recently, words from Circle Game, although I can't remember the exact phrase now. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 16:23:36 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Mingus article Sue Mingus wrote an article about Charles Mingus that was in the NYTimes magazine last March. I don't think it was mentioned then, and I see it's once again available without charge: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/17/magazine/17MINGUS.html There's no mention of Joni, but the article does give an interesting close-up view of Mingus. It's hard to imagine strong-willed Joni ever being able to work with strong-willed Mingus, although he was older when they collaborated and sick, and perhaps not as bullish as he comes across in the article. Even so, collaborating must have been a challenge for them both. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 14:56:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: JT's contribution to Blue For a long time I believed that Joni had written A Case of You about James. Here's why: After she sings the line "Part of you pours out of me in these lines from time to time", there is some quintessential JT fingerpicking that comes out in the mix. I thought, hmm, is Joni "quoting" JT with her guitar? It wasn't until recently that I perused the Blue liner notes and I realized that it's actually James playing. Ah, I'm not too slow. Jenny Bobsart48@aol.com wrote:Stephen wrote "I agree wholeheartedly agree with you except I don't see James Taylor in that group. I wonder what Join thinks of his music. I find him so so boring." Well, I can understand how you feel about that, Stephen. And my actions suggest that I agree with you - I stopped buying his albums after the first 4 or so, even though I like some of what he produces (to the extent that I hear it on the radio), and only occasionally listen to his music. I would say this, though, about JT: 1. He is perhaps the outstanding presenter of the lullaby of my generation - - at that form, he excels, IMO. 2. He is quite an interesting guitarist. I learned quite a bit from learning how to play a number of the songs from his first few albums (I am an 'amateur' , so you might want to factor that in to your reaction). If you play, have you tried any of his material ? 3. I think his accompaniment on Blue (All I Want, California and A Case of You) was quite tasteful, and added a lot to those songs. 4. I think he made great strides over his career as a performer, and became quite good in concert. As an aside, circa 1973 or so, Paul Simon's brother Eddie (who ran a guitar study school in NY) volunteered to me that his brother did not particularly respect JT's work. It does seem to me that JT did not 'keep changing' to the extent that JM (or Paul Simon, for that matter) did. As for boring - I assume you mean his music, rather than him (or could that have been part of the problem with JM and Carly ?) ;-) Bob S New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 18:07:49 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Blue >Kasey wrote:: >"My friend is also sending me the Blue CD. Do you have >this one?" Oh.....YEAH!! I'm listenting to it at this very moment.....Bluuuuuuuue, songs are like tattoos...You know I've been to sea before....Crown and anchor me....or let me sail away... I can't say it any better than Bob. This is a must Kasey!! Let us know your thoughts...very interested? BTW...yes, I love Graters and Larosa's BUT...I stay away....or I'd be looking like two-ton Tessie.. Bree >May I answer on behalf of the entire list ? "YES !" >The correct response is 'all ten of them'. Of particular note are the >closing >three tracks - perhaps the most emotionally open and musically gripping >finishing stretch in the history of popular music. > >Bob S. > > >PS - for many years, if asked, I would have replied that 'Little Green' was >the least strong song on the album. Then, I found out what it was about. >When >you get the album, let us know what you think Little Green is about (if you >do not already know). _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 18:08:23 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Robin Holcomb again - this time with added Joni content! I just found a website for Robin Holcomb, which includes a review of her new album containing the following intriguing sentence: "A host of guests (including Kate and Anna McGarrigle) adds textures that restore meaning to exhausted adjectives such as "mysterious" and "dreamlike," to the point where you might consider Holcomb as Joni Mitchell's postmodern Appalachian jazz-pop Wiccan twin." Well fancy that! Azeem in London NP: Amy Wadge - The Famous Hour (another Kashmir Klub allumna) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 15:40:44 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Blue Bob S wrote "for many years, if asked, I would have replied that 'Little Green' was the least strong song on the album. Then, I found out what it was about. When you get the album, let us know what you think Little Green is about (if you do not already know)" this is so interesting to me because i feel that when i learn about what/or who joni's songs are about, it only emphasizes her great artistry...little green is a perfect example of this ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 19:41:45 -0400 From: Chuck Eisenhardt Subject: James and Joni What does 'Join' think of his music? I guess she thought enough of his music and person to become romantically involved, perform together, contribute to each other's albums... And I seriously doubt that either Joni or Carly ever found James Taylor exactly 'boring'... Chucke ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 19:18:22 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: James and Joni Chucke wrote: > And I seriously doubt that either Joni or Carly ever found James Taylor > exactly 'boring'... At least initially. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 18:24:02 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: jonimitchellfans list warning At 9/20/2002 08:14 PM, Rick and Susan wrote: >Someone has been posting to the JoniMitchellfans list with the subject line: >I just found a new website here. >Warning: Do not click on the URL! FYI... This "phenomenon" has been hitting nearly all of the Yahoo Groups in existence. Apparently, some hackers have figured out how to do mass subscriptions and are wreaking havoc. The JoniMitchellFans list is not my list - it belongs to Catgirl - but she did make me a co-moderator way back when (where are you Catgirl??). I took the liberty just now of restricting membership - until now it's been free and open to anyone. We'll see if that helps get rid of the spam! Les, thankful the JMDL has remained 99.96% spam-free over the years. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 20:59:36 EDT From: Kardinel@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #386 I think DED is a terrible album. I bought all JM's records through the late 60's and 70's (Hissing and Hejira are my favorites). JM started going off track with Wild Things Run Fast. Oh, it had it's moments but it was like she was turning her back on her intense, introspective self which is her strong point. When DED came out I bought it and hated it. I couldn't believe it so then I skipped the next album(I forgot the name) because I didn't know what to think. But someone told me about NRH when it came out in 91 and I have loved the albums since. JM is my favorite and has been since 68 except for that one album and the one I never listened too. I guess what I am saying is put that album to rest. We all have our low points and the 80's were tasteless and we were all affected in some way. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 21:13:55 -0400 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: Apology Very sorry for copying the whole digest into my reply. And as for DJRD: Talk to Me, Jericho, etc, great songs as they are -- to me they don't quite fit with the overall challenging nature of the majority of the material. Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 20:27:25 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #386 We all have our low points and the 80's were > tasteless and we were all affected in some way. > Interesting point. Have heard, read, and even thought much the same thing many times. On the other hand, or maybe the same one, have also heard much of the same sentiments about the music of the 70's. Of course, it is and will always be the greatest music of all time to me and for me. Surmise that since this is so that there must be countless and vast numbers that have special feelings and remembrances of the music of the 80's. First kiss, love after the sex while the smoke from the cigarette curls into the air, that special moment that can never be shared, reproduced, or forgotten. All it takes to bring the memory is a tune, from then, from whenever. Barren it may have been for me but not necessarily for others. mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 23:21:46 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Happy Birthday, Mucky! September 23rd is my sister Mucky's birthday. (Mucky is also known as Margaret Nothing Murphy. Of the four siblings in my family, she was the youngest and the only one not given a middle name, hence her cruel older brothers and sister have always delighted in calling her Margaret Nothing Murphy.) Mucky is smart, pretty, charming and one of the funniest people I know. Unfortunately, she has truly awful taste in music, and you would be more likely to find her on a Peter Frampton or Michael Bolton list than on the JMDL. So . . . what's the JMDL connection? Mucky was born on September 23, 1957 . . . the same day as . . . (FANFARE) Bob Muller! Yes, Monday is the birthday of the JMDL's own King Cobra-drinkin' Covers King! The *nice* Bob was the first one to warmly welcome me and most other listers to the JMDL. His covers project has grown to a truly impressive collection of about nine million Joni covers over the years. And what does he get for all his hard work? Blanks and postage . . . and occasional, fleeting feelings of self-esteem! So please join me in flooding Bob's mailbox (SCJoniGuy@AOL.com) with the happiest of birthday wishes. This place would just not be the same without him. By the way, aside from being smart, pretty, charming and funny, Bob is nothing like Mucky -- which goes to show there's nothing to that astrology business after all. Happy birthday, Bob. XO, --Smurf, the semi-retired birthday gnome ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 00:08:33 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Happy Birthdays A very warm Happy Belated Birthday to two stellar JMDL girls Marian and Heather. Hope you had a wonderful day. And Happy Fecking Brithday To YOU Bob Muller today. I will raise a martini glass in your general direction this evening at medication time. Love Paz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 00:11:36 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: revisiting dog eat dog I have this somewhere but could not find it before this posting. I do believe she did Number One at Farm Aid. And it was The Police and U2 the 2 bands that she was sandwiched in between wasn't it?? I have the whole concert somewhere in this mess as well as Live Aid complete. That one was a bitch to tape getting up in the middle of the night to change tapes. Paz on 9/20/02 2:47 PM, LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk at LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk wrote: > Ashara gave each of us Jonifest 2002 attendees a splendid compilation video > of joni clips one of which was joni playing Farm Aid back whenever. > > Joni played Three Great Stimulants and (a personal favourite) Dog Eat Dog. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 22:57:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: CLARIFY DJRD COMMENT Hejira, her "first black album"? Interesting idea. Of course, Joan knew about Lambert, Hendricks, and Ross back in Saskatchewan. I'm not exactly sure who has lots of skin pigment and who has a little but I'm thinking it was a mixture of black and white folks. (Shocking, I know.) :) So, in that sense, Joni has hip before she came south to Detroit. So, I guess by that yardstick, C&S is her first "black" album although it doesn't mean much. Was "Twisted" the one that Annie Ross built on top of a sax solo by jazz man Wardell Grey? (Some sites have it spelled "Gray".) http://www.singers.com/jazz/lambert.html - --- Cactustree78@aol.com wrote, in part: > Another quick side bar....my friends new boyfriend > and I were talkin about Joni the other day and he > referred to "Joni's black music and Joni's white > music" have any of you heard that before...he was > sayin how Hejira was her first black album and how > Joni gets more "props" from the african american > community than from white folks...especially for her > 80s stuff...ive never heard that before ***kev*** New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #276 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)