From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #196 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, July 8 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 196 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in History: July 7 [ljirvin@adelphia.net] Re: another honor [Rick and Susan ] Re: another honor [Catherine McKay ] Fwd: Re: another honour [Mags N Brei ] Lucky Boy(sic) [colin ] Re: another honour [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: another honour [Mags N Brei ] Re: another honor [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Lucky Boy(sic) [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: Lucky Boy(sic) [colin ] "Passion Play", two kinds of JC! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: "Passion Play", two kinds of JC! [Rick and Susan ] Are there any JMDL members in France & Up for a visit. [johnirving ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 03:02:59 -0400 From: ljirvin@adelphia.net Subject: Today in History: July 7 1968: Joni performs tonight at the Bitter End in New York City. Also on the bill are Bunky & Jake and David Steinberg. [Source: New York Times; July 5, 1968] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 07:30:36 -0700 From: Rick and Susan Subject: Re: another honor on 7/6/02 7:42 PM, bobsart48@aol.com at bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > Would one of the JMDL Canadians kindly explain what this "member, officer, > companion' of the Order of Canada is about? The Order of Canada is the highest honour given by the country to a living person. It recognizes lifetime achievement which has benefited Canada in some way. (The motto on the award translates from Latin as "They desire a better country.") Anyone can be nominated except politicians and serving judges. The honour is given out twice a year and there are three levels: Member, Officer, and Companion, with Companion being the highest level. This July, 99 people received the honour. Joni became a Companion of the Order of Canada along with 3 other people. Bruce Cockburn was elevated to Officer. Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 10:19:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: another honor - --- Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > I saw this article in the local paper, too. > > Would one of the JMDL Canadians kindly explain what > this "member, officer, > companion' of the Order of Canada is about? > > Bob S from America (as usual, ignorant of non-U.S. > culture) ;-) > Well, Bob, I was ignorant too. Just being Canadian certainly doesn't make one an expert on these kinds of things! (So, I decided to look it up.) Here is a link to the governor general's website, with the news release on the recently announced appointments: http://www.gg.ca/media/appointments/archive-2002/20020704_e.asp (*While browing this website, I also discovered that Sharon, Lois and Bram, popular children's entertainers, had also been named, as members.) unfortunately, the GG's site doesn't get into a lot of detail as to what one has to do to rate the different levels, except to say "Three different levels of membership honour people whose accomplishments vary in degree and scope: Companion, Officer and Member." Companion is the highest honour, and that's what our Joni got. I also notice that Bruce Cockburn was named "Officer" but that this was a promotion within the order - so I guess you can start off at the "member" level, be promoted to "officer", and then I suppose to "companion" - although some are immediately placed in a higher level without working their way up. Another website, http://canadaonline.about.com/library/weekly/aa012700a.htm has the following to say: Levels and Numbers of Honours There are three levels of the Order of Canada: Companion of the Order of Canada Only 15 awards a year, and only a total of 165 recipients living at any time Officer of the Order of Canada Up to 64 appointments made every year Member of the Order of Canada Up to 136 appointments are made each year So, the field narrows the further up you go - sometimes you have to wait for someone to die before you can get the Companion level! You also have to be a Canadian citizen, living (that helps), and not a politician or judge currently in office. ______________________________________________________________________ Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 06:27:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Fwd: Re: another honour this didnt make it to the list, so i am resending. i thought this might be of interest, since Bob asked, there may be others wondering the same thing. Mags. - - > > > --- Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > > I saw this article in the local paper, too. > > > > Would one of the JMDL Canadians kindly explain what this "member, > > officer, > > companion' of the Order of Canada is about? > > > http://www.gg.ca/honours/order_e.asp > > Bob, here in Canada, it is considered a great honour to receive this > award. > > Mags, his alien shiksa > > > > > > > > > ===== > You open my heart, you do. > Yes you do. > - JM > Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free > http://sbc.yahoo.com > ===== You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 13:19:29 +0100 From: colin Subject: Lucky Boy(sic) you're my lucky star you're my magician.......... i get my heart full here........ i never loved a man i trusted as far as i could pitch my shoe 'til i loved you Thank you Lord for sending John my way 21 years ago today and for making sure i knew what i had been given and for continuing to show me the way. - -- bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 10:46:19 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: another honour Mags, Thanks very much for the link. I found it quite interesting. In particular, that there can be at most 165 living Companions. There also appeared to be very few sports/entertainment people in the group (at least, that I recognized). I noticed Jean Beliveau and Margaret Atwood - I am sure there are others, but.... Sounds like a very impressive honor. Our Joni has clearly lost most if not all claims to those dubious "most underrated/underrecognized/underappreciated" titles. Bob S. In a message dated 7/7/02 5:16:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, magsnbrei@yahoo.com writes: > http://www.gg.ca/honours/order_e.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 02:16:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: another honour - --- Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > I saw this article in the local paper, too. > > Would one of the JMDL Canadians kindly explain what this "member, > officer, > companion' of the Order of Canada is about? http://www.gg.ca/honours/order_e.asp Bob, here in Canada, it is considered a great honour to receive this award. Mags, his alien shiksa > > ===== You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 11:00:45 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: another honor http://www.gg.ca/honours/faqoc_e.asp Thanks, Catherine. The above links to the FAQ's, but is not particularly revealing (the awards are not granted posthumously, apparently). Perhaps if one studies the application form, one will glean more about the prerequisites, etc. I do not have the time today. I also noted the there were 388 names on the list of Companions (pre-Joni), so of the 400 or so who have received the designation, more than half are deceased. That sounds like a very exclusive list to me. Bob S. Catherine wrote: unfortunately, the GG's site doesn't get into a lot of detail as to what one has to do to rate the different levels, except to say "Three different levels of membership honour people whose accomplishments vary in degree and scope: Companion, Officer and Member." Companion is the highest honour, and that's what our Joni got. I also notice that Bruce Cockburn was named "Officer" but that this was a promotion within the order - so I guess you can start off at the "member" level, be promoted to "officer", and then I suppose to "companion" - although some are immediately placed in a higher level without working their way up. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 12:54:05 -0700 (PDT) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: Lucky Boy(sic) > Thank you Lord for sending John my way 21 years ago today and for making > sure i knew what i had been given and for continuing to show me the way. What an incredibly lovely sentiment, Colin! I was just thinking of you. (I saw a knitting magazine with a man on the cover and thought of you and your talents!) My congratulations to you and John for 21 years of being together. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 21:06:34 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Lucky Boy(sic) > What an incredibly lovely sentiment, Colin! I was just > thinking of you. (I saw a knitting magazine with a man > on the cover and thought of you and your talents!) My > congratulations to you and John for 21 years of being > together. > > lots of love > Anne Thank you Anne. It was ages before I realised what I had. Not because I took it for granted but because I didn't understand it. John was so different from anyone I had experienced before and he loved me. That was confusing and I didn't know what it was. I had a female trusted friend(still do) who kept telling me what i had and that it was real. I eventially understood it and felt it for myself. love colin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:17:38 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: "Passion Play", two kinds of JC! <> Not an easy song to dissect or discuss, Ruth. It's been the subject of many discussions prior, which is why nobody chimed in on your question. Also, it's not clear, period...there are some obvious references; one being: I am up a sycamore Looking through the leaves A sinner of some position Who in the world can this heart healer be This magical physician Oh climb down climb down he says to me From the middle of unrest They think is light is squandered But he sees a stray in the wilderness And I see how far I've wandered Here she's referring to the story of Zaccheus the tax collector, a man who repented when Jesus honored & loved him. The passage is found in Luke 19: 1-10. The two references are separated by a chorus and a bridge. This one I would categorize as "semi-obvious": Magdalene is trembling Like a washing on a line Trembling and gleaming Never before was a man so kind Never so redeeming I would bet a paycheck that Joni's referring to Mary Magdalene, however she doesn't mention "Mary", only "Magdalene", which basically refers to 'one from from Magdala'. Anyway, Mary Magdalene would be the significant Magdalene and the semi-obvious choice. There are actually very few references to her in the Bible, and not many Gnostic texts either. Jesus cast out 7 demons from her, and she was there for his crucifixion, but the thing that Joni was likely referring to with the "trembling & gleaming" was the fact that Mary was the first person to witness Jesus resurrected, and it was she who informed the apostles of this fact. She is sometimes referred to as the "Apostle to the Apostles" because of it. It is rumored that she was a prostitute, and/or that she & Jesus had a marriage relationship, but I haven't seen anything that supports that theory. Anyway, what's interesting is her change in the 3-syllable word, from "Ecstasy" (which follows the verse that I would suggest refers to resurrection) to "Misery" which follows the verse about Zaccheus, to "Apathy" to "Tragedy", which follows the passage that I would suggest refers to Jesus' crucifixion: Oh all around the marketplace The buzzing of the flies The buzzing and the stinging Divinely barren And wickedly wise The killer nails are ringing "Divinely Barren" referring to Mary (a virgin) and Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptist, who was well past conception age when she became pregnant. "Wickedly wise", referring to the Pharisees & Pilate who did what they had to do legally to have him crucified. That pretty much just leaves the chorus: Enter the multitudes In Exxon blue In radiation rose Could refer to the "multitudes" that began to follow Jesus around, and what scared the Pharisees into having him crucified...why Exxon Blue & radiation rose? Maybe Joni's suggesting that we're slaves to Fossil fuels & nuclear power. Maybe she just picked those as ways to describe the colors. There may be a painting connection there. Anyway, the song certainly leaves some things undefined, but I think there's enough lyrical evidence to support the fact that Jesus is the central image of the song. I've never heard her talk about this song specifically. I don't think she's ever performed it, except when she scatted her way through it in San Remo Italy in 1988. She hadn't put any words to it at that point. Hope some of that made sense...I rambled more than I meant to. Bob NP: Eminem, "Soldier" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 20:34:56 -0700 From: Rick and Susan Subject: Re: "Passion Play", two kinds of JC! on 7/7/02 7:17 PM, SCJoniGuy@aol.com at SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > That pretty much just leaves the chorus: > > Enter the multitudes > In Exxon blue > In radiation rose > > Could refer to the "multitudes" that began to follow Jesus around, and what > scared the Pharisees into having him crucified...why Exxon Blue & radiation > rose? Maybe Joni's suggesting that we're slaves to Fossil fuels & nuclear > power. Maybe she just picked those as ways to describe the colors. There may > be a painting connection there. I'm going to go way out on a limb here and suggest that perhaps Joni wrote this song after attending an actual Passion Play, possibly the most famous one, held every ten years, in Oberammergau, Germany. This event is world-famous and is held the first year of each new decade, which would place it one year before the release of Night Ride Home. The cast of the Passion Play consists entirely of the residents of Oberammergau who often fill the stage in huge crowd scenes ("enter the multitude"). When I was in Europe in 1970 I saw several posters of scenes from the play and was struck by how colourful it was. Some pictures from the year 2000 play can be seen at http://www.oberammergau.de/. (Click on Kunst & Kultur and then Passionsspiele). While the costumes are toned down quite a bit from what I remember, you can still see some crowd members wearing robes which a painter's eye might describe as "exxon blue and radiation rose." By the way, I've been out on limbs before and even once cut the limb I was standing on, but that's a different story. Rick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 00:42:46 -0500 From: johnirving Subject: Are there any JMDL members in France & Up for a visit. Hi Gang, Serious lurker here, lumbering out of my shell for a moment to ask if there are any French JMDL members I can visit in the next week or so on my travels across France. Anyone there? Anyone interested? -I leave for France on the 12th of July. Rich and I will spend 4-5 days in Agen. Then 5-6 days or so in Paris. -It would be great to meet a Joni fan along the way, if you're out there. As for the rest of youse guys... No. I'm not fabulously wealthy; if I had a penny in my pocket I'd be going to JoniFest. (You lucky joni ducks.) I'm pretty lucky because Paris is a freebie. (How does that happen?) Even more amazing, that at the same time I was offered a free one to Paris, I was also offered a free one to Bejing, China. No kidding. 2 weeks, all expenses paid. China. -And just to show how weird life can be, I was the fifth person asked regarding the China trip. Everyone asked had reasons they coudn't go. Including me. -How weird is that?' Eventually, on number six, my friend Ron got the sixteen year old son of a friend to say yes. -And a great time was had by all. Ok, enough about me. Let's talk about Joni. Preferably in some french cafe... Preferably listening to Yvette in English??? Btw, Ron is returning to China next spring and needs company... I'd be happy to pass along a phone number... j. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 06:14:39 +0000 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Costello misquote Don't know if this is the right place to send this but here it is anyway. It's from an interview in The Guardian on April 5th 2002. the interviewer, Will Hodgkinson, says>>Unsurprisingly, Costello's current listening includes classic songwriting, like that of Joni Mitchell. "She's a painter with words," he says. He plays us a Joni Mitchell track, Shades of Scarlett Conquering, to illustrate the point. "It's about a woman who models herself on Scarlett O'Hara, and she's terribly overwrought and demanding on all the men in her life: 'Dressed in stolen clothes she stands cast-iron in furs, with her impossibly gentle hands and long red fingernails.' In two lines you have a complete picture of her. That kind of brevity is the work of a fine novelist." two lines you have a complete picture of her. That kind of brevity is the work of a fine novelist."<