From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #175 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, June 17 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 175 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Off key, on purpose? [Catherine McKay ] was Bowie and the future now Joni & touring ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: joni songs, anyone? ["mack watson-bush" ] alittle jc--- [LuvnMyWrld@aol.com] Re: Joni & touring [dsk ] Re: Joni & touring [AzeemAK@aol.com] [none] ["mack watson-bush" ] sorry ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Joni & touring ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Note to SCJoniGuy, medical update to all, and some Joni questions about her early stuff [Big] Ludwig's tune [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] re: Moon At the Window's first verse [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Re: Moon At the Window's first verse ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #257 [BRYAN8847@aol.com] reintroducing mom to Laura and Joni [Lazyasz@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 11:01:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Off key, on purpose? - --- blckcrow@chorus.net wrote: > Whatever innovations with harmony she she may > or may not be undertaking in the song are > irrelevant, to my mind. Flat is flat--and this note > is *flat.* > > Am I getting a little peevish here, or what??! ;-) > > The note in "Peoples' Parties" has always surprised > me, precisely because, as I would be the first to > point out, Joni's sense of pitch is usually so good. > As is, may I say with the proper amount of modesty, > my own. My problem is, I can't find my "Court & Spark" - whether I've just misplaced it, or the ex snaffled it, I'm not sure - he's not a big Joni fan and, as far as I know, the only one he really liked is "Both Sides Now" (the album, not the song.) So I can't even give it a new listen. However, I don't recall this being off-key - it never struck me as such. A bit odd maybe, because the end of that song blends in to the beginning of the next. There's a chord beginning the next track that works as a sort of modulating chord as "away" dies... away. Must go and find my copy of C&S... ______________________________________________________________________ Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 09:58:04 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: was Bowie and the future now Joni & touring > << Was it Azeem who said that David Bowie makes most of his money from live > appearances? And yet, didn't Joni say that touring actually COSTS her money? > How does that work? I know there's more to it than the star's salary - > there's the band (and the roadies); there's any special effects (a la Pink > Floyd). What else? Somehow I imagine a Bowie show costing more than Joni one, > so what's up with that? >> > > Not Bowie, Catherine, but Richard Thompson - a very different kettle of fish! > I think RT was particularly referring to his solo tours, where obviously > overheads are low and the shows invariably sell out. Hasn't RT stayed in circulation pretty much throughout his career as far as live performance is concerned? That's the feeling I'm getting from reading the interview that Debra so kindly posted the URL for. I would guess that he books into relatively small, more intimate venues and since he has a following that are used to seeing him on a fairly regular basis, as Azeem says, he sells these venues out. His fans get to see him often enough to keep them interested. Joni, on the other hand, hardly ever tours and when she does she's usually booked into large venues that don't do anything to enhance her style of music and performance. Therefore the costs are higher and when the venues don't sell out it ends up costing her. Her more recent touring was limited and in 98 she hooked up with Dylan and Van Morrison and as much as I love Joni, I know that it was Bob & Van that sold those concerts out, not Joni. The BSN tour was very limited as far cities played was concerned. Concord looked like it was pretty full when she was there. Did she sell out the other venues she played on the BSN tour? I think what it boils down to is that Joni doesn't like to tour. I'm not sure why she gets booked into the large arenas when she does tour. Maybe the accommodations and perks are better than what she'd get in smaller theatres and clubs and she's too used to her 'clean white linen and her fancy French cologne' so to speak. I think she would be much happier performing in a venue like what she designed for the PWWAM taping. She always seems more relaxed and open in an intimate setting. If she had a place like that to perform every now and then, could do a show and then go home afterwards I think she'd be perfectly happy with it. Of course, that doesn't give her exposure to anybody but the LA audiences. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 12:23:29 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: joni songs, anyone? Joni a bore? Surely it is about somebody else or Miss Simon is a jealous > type...and with good reason. Joni looks blows most peoples out of the > water. Just an opinion. > > Cat Joni a bore? I don't know her but her musical legacy is surely not boring. Guess it depends on whose being bored or not being bored. Subjective. As a matter of fact, where is Hell? Have never found Joni to be particularly attractive physically. Carly, on the other hand, is, in my opinion, very alluring and provocative in her looks so much so that when I watched her profile on one of those biography type stations I was pretty surprised at her background. She is very easy to look at and to listen to. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 12:23:33 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: joni songs, anyone? Joni a bore? Surely it is about somebody else or Miss Simon is a jealous > type...and with good reason. Joni looks blows most peoples out of the > water. Just an opinion. > > Cat Joni a bore? I don't know her but her musical legacy is surely not boring. Guess it depends on whose being bored or not being bored. Subjective. As a matter of fact, where is Hell? Have never found Joni to be particularly attractive physically. Carly, on the other hand, is, in my opinion, very alluring and provocative in her looks so much so that when I watched her profile on one of those biography type stations I was pretty surprised at her background. She is very easy to look at and to listen to. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 14:22:02 EDT From: LuvnMyWrld@aol.com Subject: alittle jc--- Ok---don't laugh..... I want to buy a guitar...and learn....:) Maybe we can teach this 30 something dog a new trick....I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for a first guitar?????? Brand, style....etc...and BTW...what kind of guitar does Joni play with most generally? Blessings and Peace, Kelly (the redhead from "Detroit") ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 14:27:29 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni & touring Mark or Travis wrote: > > I think she would be much happier > performing in a venue like what she designed for the PWWAM taping. She > always seems more relaxed and open in an intimate setting. If she had a > place like that to perform every now and then, could do a show and then go > home afterwards I think she'd be perfectly happy with it. Of course, that > doesn't give her exposure to anybody but the LA audiences. What a wonderful idea! It would be like seeing her at Fez. If she did it routinely, even just once a month, people would buy tickets way in advance and plan an LA trip around seeing her in such a setting. I know I would. Such concerts would need to be simply done to make them cost-effective and easily arranged and for now she's going in the opposite direction. Another thing Richard Thompson has talked about is that he's had to figure out how to use only his acoustic guitar to get across all the parts a band played in his studio recordings, so it's still a full sound. If he can't do that with a song, he doesn't play it on a solo tour. His almost-constant solo touring really is his bread and butter and, as Mark suggested, is one reason he has so many dedicated fans. And he says he enjoys such up close and personal performing. I imagine Joni would, too, especially if it was an easy drive home. Hasn't she mentioned how much she enjoyed playing to small audiences? After the orchestra thing plays out, maybe that will be next. I hope so. Debra Shea NP: Still Kirsty, "Nao Experando" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 14:35:25 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni & touring In a message dated 16/06/02 19:27:38 GMT Daylight Time, dsk11@bellatlantic.net writes: << I imagine Joni would, too, especially if it was an easy drive home. Hasn't she mentioned how much she enjoyed playing to small audiences? After the orchestra thing plays out, maybe that will be next. I hope so. >> Please God, let the orchestra thing play itself out as soon as possible! I reckon - and I know this will sound heretical - that another move that might work well would be for Joni to find some fab guitarist who can play in Joni-style (styles, in fact), so that she can concentrate on singing when performing live. She sounds like a different person when she ditches the guitar on PWWAM. For all that I am in awe of her playing, it seems that with her voice fragile and less flexible than before, the distraction of playing simultaneously, especially given that her playing is so complex, is one distraction too many. Azeem in London NP: Shawn Colvin - Wichita Skyline, merging into Round Of Blues, from a superlative live compilation, for which I have Catherine Turley to thank - thanks again, Catherine! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 13:50:38 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: [none] Donna Binkley told me a while back that a road trip was needed so with that advice I headed off, again, to see what I could see. Drove by Fairy, Tx. Didn't know that existed. I thought about Bob and smiled and then dreamed about a fairy fest in fairy, tx. The weather this spring in Central Texas has been beautiful and has yet to become so hot as to be burdensome. Driving through the hills of Texas with Janis, on full volume, was wonderful. Arrived in Austin and decided to see what music and fun I could find on 6th Street. It was Friday night and it was crowded. The parking was practically non-existent and had to walk 7 or 8 blocks after finally finding a place. Too many preppies for my tastes and the area seems to have lost most, if not all, of that bohemian spirit I had long heard and read about. Still, every once in a while, one can get a taste of it. I traversed the streets and listened outside to the different groups performing, hoping one would catch my ear. There were many really heavy rock and roll bands playing, one so loud that the entire building was shaking as I stood there. Thought of Rosalie at that point and wished she was there as she likes that kind of thing. Finally, spied a small joint that stated no cover and that a blues band would be performing there later. Sounded good to me so entered and found a table in the corner. Piped blues were playing and after a couple of beers I was feeling pretty at home, especially with the graffiti laden walls and laid back ambience of the place. Dreamed that Janis would soon walk in. The performer was touted, by the outside sign, as John McVie. Had never heard of him. Saw a poster inside that read the name as John McVay. He started about an hour later. Pretty good they were with some good guitar playing. I enjoyed it for 30 minutes or so but not being a big fan of just guitar playing I waited for the bluesy vocals. Never came. Not what I would call blues. I am sure the knowledge base here knows more about him than I do. Great to hear him anyway. Then went in search for something more to what I was looking for but didn't find it. Did find that somehow I had lost all of my money while there on the streets. Don't know if pocket picked or what. Pretty disconcerting. Never has happened to me before. The next day while driving to East Texas, beautiful scenery, picked up a radio station. Pretty interesting to place the radio on scan, while driving through different areas, to see what one can find. This station was interviewing two musicians, whose names I can't remember. They were alternately performing. Kind of hillbilly but down home music. At first pretty impressed as the first one had a Nanci Griffith kind of style but he couldn't keep it up. Overall though, they were not half bad. The two said they had the No. 1 record in Denmark and they were performing somewhere close that night. The other then sang and said his album was called "Just Like This Train." I waited anxiously for a Joni mention but none came. I wondered if he thought he was original. East Texas is really beautiful. Had never been there before. Had planned on going to Port Arthur for the Janis memorial but not having any pocket money didn't think that was frugal so decided to come home. Lake Livingston is massive and longed to be on one of the boats way out in the middle of it. Got lost in the dark outside Waco while traveling home and spent hours trying to find my way out of the darkness. Thought about stopping for directions but couldn't do it. Don't they call that a man thing? Almost otherworldly, I drove on and felt as if I had fallen into the Twilight Zone. Occasionally, would see another car but they didn't have any people inside of them. Finally, out of the maze and home, just as a hugh thunderstorm hit. Great to go but great to come home too. Didn't hear one tune from Joni on the radio through all those hours on the road. mack mack watson-bush ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 14:05:31 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: sorry Sorry for the no joni content on that last one folks. mack watson-bush ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 13:01:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Joni & touring It's clearly apparent that she enjoyed herself at the Much Music show in Toronto. Although it might have been the saki talking...... :) Lamadoo - --- dsk wrote: > Hasn't she mentioned how much she enjoyed playing to > small audiences? > After the orchestra thing plays out, maybe that will > be next. I hope so. LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 19:02:04 EDT From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Note to SCJoniGuy, medical update to all, and some Joni questions about her early stuff Bob, [Hey, Bob, hope you don't mind -- after writing this letter, I decided to emend it and just send it to the list, to answer so many caring inquiries from the list in one swoop -- saves time, and reduces the amount of typing, which is difficult for me lately.] Thank you muchly (and belatedly) for the Gift of the Magi lyrics -- I just this past week finally got around to watching Vol. 2, Part 2 of the tapes you sent weeks/months ago -- and got to see here The Way It Is for the first time ever! What a thrill that is, to hear a song of hers that you've heard *of*, but not *heard*!! And to *see* her singing Gift of the Magi! I truly think this is one of her more brilliant compositions, ever -- and scanning the lyrics, briefly -- did they change between the version I have one one of the CDs (Looking Out for Love, I believe) and the video from the CBC broadcast? I'll soon find out -- but thanks again, I was going crazy over some of the lines, playing the song over and over and not quite getting them. For Bob and everyone -- sorry I've been slow to get back to all of you who've written to me asking about my health. In short, they finally found my brain :-] -- no major horrors (i.e., no tumors, no massive plaques, no abscesses, etc.), but my left hemishpere has shrunk, which may partly explain my linguistic difficulties -- most linguistic facilities are in the left hemi of the brain -- and also explain why my right side is weaker than the left (assume y'all know about the right/left thingy between the brain and the body, right brain controlling the left body, and vice versa). No way to know exactly which of the toxins I've been exposed to in the last seven+ years may have contributed to this situation, and there's basically nothing I can do about it except grin and bear it -- as i tell everyone, I'm too pissy and Irish to give up a fight. Oddly, most of the time, I'm able to talk okay, and I'm amazed that my piano playing is no more diminished than it is -- the aim on my right hand is a little funky, but I still love playing, doing it in short bursts rather than in marathon sessions, like when i was young. One other question, to Bob and all who have the Looking out for Love CD, or possibly other early recordings: I also love Melody In Your Name, which comes right after Gift on the Looking Out CD -- the fact that she decides it's too low, tunes up, and in the process breaks a string (saying something like "Well, now i guess it's too high!") and discusses with the audience what to do about it (I'm unable to understand what's done so she can play the song - -- do you know?) makes it so human. She starts the song again a whole step higher, and then, for some reason, the ending is cut off (presumably damage to the original). Is there any other version of this song around? It's melodically similar to Magi, which may be why she played it right after Magi in the set (same tuning, but up one step? What's the name of that thing one puts across the frets to raise the key? I'm not a guitar player and can't remember...) If there *is* another un-truncated version of the song, I'd like to get my hands on it someday... Thanks so much for everything Bob (and everybody on the list!), and best to you and yours, Walt Breen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 19:11:43 EDT From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Ludwig's tune Jim Lamadoo wrote (several weeks ago): <> Hi, Jim, I've been away from the Jonilist for some time, but for some reason I took a glance at the one (Digest #239) with this quote. I think Ludwig's Tune is one of her masterpieces, and have been working on the simplified published version of the song on the piano (when no-one's around, i sing the vocals, but the less said the better). Like you, i can't wait to hear the version on the CD to come out -- when? In November? -- but who is the Vince you mention in your note? -- I got the above quote out of context. Just curious. Best, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 19:58:06 EDT From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: re: Moon At the Window's first verse Hi, gang, I was writing to Sherelle a little while ago, and the song Moon At the Window came to mind -- does anyone know why, when Joni has sung the song publicly of late, she has elided the first verse, which I've always liked?: [It takes cheerful resignation Heart and humility That's all it takes A cheerful person told me Nobody's harder on me than me How could they be And nobody's harder on you than you] Instead, she begins with Betsy's blue She says -- "Tell me something good!:... Anybody know why she skips the first verse? Has she been asked? Does she now think the verse is stupid, or wrong, or too obvious -- or is it just a matter of shortening the song for performance perposes? Does anyone else care? :-) best to all, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 17:26:29 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Moon At the Window's first verse > Anybody know why she skips the first verse? Has she been asked? Does she > now think the verse is stupid, or wrong, or too obvious -- or is it just a > matter of shortening the song for performance perposes? Does anyone else > care? :-) Hi Walt. Good to hear from you! If I remember correctly, Joni restored that first verse when she sang 'Moon at the Window' at the Gorge in 1998. I think she also sings it in PWWAM. I wondered why she was skipping it as well. In the concert from the Gene Autrey museum I'm almost certain she omitted it. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 20:51:56 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Note to SCJoniGuy, medical update to all, and some Joni questions about h... <> I dunno, Walt...I would imagine that you're probably the most knowledgeable person on the list regarding that song (having worked on it), so let US know! :~) I agree with your admiration of the song...(Mags, definitely one on the "inspired by literature" list) Like almost all of those early songs, there's such a musical purity that gets me every time. > <> None that I'm aware of, but my knowledge is limited. To make things more confusing, on the bootleg, it's identified as "Dawntreader"... < puts across the frets to raise the > key? I'm not a guitar player and can't remember...) >> I'm not either, Walt, but you mean a capo. Bob NP: Pat Kelly, "Both Sides Now" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 22:25:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Moon At the Window's first verse - --- Mark or Travis wrote: > > Anybody know why she skips the first verse? Has > she been asked? Does she > > now think the verse is stupid, or wrong, or too > obvious -- or is it just a > > matter of shortening the song for performance > perposes? Does anyone else > > care? :-) Er, maybe she just forgot the words? (You never know!) ______________________________________________________________________ Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 20:01:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Dog Eat Dog on tv (jc?) Monday night June 17, 2002 9PM EDT NBC ===== After twenty-three years you'd think I could find A way to let you know somehow That I want to see your smiling face Forty-five years from now. --Stan Rogers Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 01:03:00 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #257 In a message dated 6/16/02 7:46:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > And yet, didn't Joni > say that touring actually COSTS her money? I'll bet she was referring to her early 80's tour (her last real tour until the 90s stuff with Dylan) and it probably did cost her then (paying for a top-notch band and playing in smaller venues than she had in the 70s), though I'll bet she was exaggerating for the sake of registering a complaint. I think it's safe to say she made quite a handsome sum from the mini-tour with Dylan and Morrison. I can't imagine that she made any dollars from the Both Sides Now tour, with the expenses of those enormous orchestras and everything. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 01:38:22 EDT From: Lazyasz@aol.com Subject: reintroducing mom to Laura and Joni Yesterday at Best Buy my mom and i got into a cd buying frenzy and we ended up with Court and Spark among other selections by PJ Harvey, Buffalo Springfield and the Beatles. My mom, who's 51, is one of those extreme casual Joni listeners who owned that one copy of C&S during the 70's and wore it out. Anyways she tells me it is like one of her favorite albums of all time. So we put it on and she's remember her favorite tunes, Down to You, Help Me, Just Like This Train, Car on a Hill, when I decide to try an experiment. I dash for my copy of Hissing and put it on the cd tray before she knows what's up. She makes it through IFTKOMS but as soon as the Burundi's on TJL start she's asking me to change it. I then skip forward to EATK which she thinks is pretty and SOSC which she thinks is beautiful, but otherwise she doesn't seem that impressed. Then today as she was fixing dinner I put on Hejira and she loved it. Saying that it was so "smooth" to listen to. Is Hissing the Joni litmus test? Is it the record that separates casuals from intimates? Also I introduced her to Laura Nyro which I guess makes her like one of ten people who know about her. I played her all of Eli and some of Tendaberry mainly the 5th dimensioned ones. Stoned Soul, Sweet Blind., Save the Country, Time/Love. She now has a better understanding of Nyro. She says i'd really like Tapestry and that Carly never was really working at the lvl of these other gals. I think that C&S really is a fine pop album. I'm planning on getting BSN this week to compare between then joni and now joni. - --Damien ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #175 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?