From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #166 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, June 9 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 166 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: through the wall ["Kate Bennett" ] Counting Crow Loves Joni ["Kate Bennett" ] joni's best guitar playing ["Kate Bennett" ] Re:American record buying figures. [Chorando6@aol.com] discussion Posting (i am new) [Pearlz2swine@aol.com] Re: joni's best guitar playing [Denny Giovanetti ] Re: through the wall (sjc) [RobSher50@aol.com] Re: Counting Crow Loves Joni [Julius Raymond ] re: Joni's crazy sound effects and noises ["mia ortlieb" ] jewels [Mags N Brei ] Re: through the wall (sjc) [RobSher50@aol.com] Re: through the wall (sjc) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: jewels [Murphycopy@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 00:55:58 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: through the wall >>Maybe instead of being pain-free, she's putting all of her energy *into* Kelly/Kilauren where previously it went into writing.<< another very astute observation, imo, as a mother & a songwriter... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 00:55:57 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Counting Crow Loves Joni THIS is every mothers dream...so soooo sweet! The very next night I walked past his (closed, of course) bedroom door and heard the lovely voice of Joni wafting through (hmmm, so that's where my Blue CD went). A couple nights later I came in the front door after work only to hear For the Roses blaring, and he had several friends in there listening as well. I think I've created a monster. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 01:00:08 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: joni's best guitar playing this is a great question, i'd have to listen to everything to really give my answer, but i have to agree having just listened to WOHAM...its incredible...or there is Blue (just kidding, wasn't this the song that the reviewer put on the top 100 guitar player list) >Speaking of brilliance, I am curious to know from the musicians on the list: > If you were asked to choose 1 Joni song that best exemplifies her brilliance > as a guitar player, what song would you suggest? > > Kurt I would pick "Woman of Heart and Mind". ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 05:38:31 EDT From: Chorando6@aol.com Subject: Re:American record buying figures. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 10:32:52 EDT From: Pearlz2swine@aol.com Subject: discussion Posting (i am new) Hi....Thanks to Lori I am finally posting something! She saw my profile and kindly showed me the jmdl ropes..it is a tad confusing! I got my first Joni Mitchell record (blue) at age 10 and I have been a devoted listener ever since. But its more than a listener when music becomes the soundtrack to your life. I have been living with her gifts to me for 33 years and I wish I could thank her. So THANK YOU instead, for listening to me thank her..and for being here as a community of people who recognize she has been a shiny shiny part of living. I cant separate my life from her music..can you? Please check my website (www.seegod.net) I am a poet and painter...Thanks....Good to be here...Pearl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 08:22:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Denny Giovanetti Subject: Re: joni's best guitar playing - --- "Kate Bennett" wrote: >this is a great question, i'd have to listen to everything to really give my >answer, but i have to agree having just listened to WOHAM...its >incredible... IAWK. The rhythmic feel is incredible, driving the song without being intrusive. And the turnarounds are really understated, a voice just above a whisper that holds your ear for the next chorus. Last year Bravo ran a series on American Popular Song, and one episode focused on '70's singer/songwriters, which featured JM playing "California" with her dulcimer, and the rhythmic drive was so incredible. And WOHAM has so many elements I consider crucial to great rhythmic playing (think, rhythm with the occasional fill) while always compliamenting the song and bringing it forward. Considering great rhythm players, (Keith Richards, Paul Kantner, David Crosby, Steve Cropper, Joan Armatrading, Ernie Isley), Mitchell always stands with those great players. (And, contrary to Great-Lead-Guitar Syndrome, rhythm is what it's all about.) Denny, who's not attacking lead guitarists. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 08:29:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Denny Giovanetti Subject: dancing to aardvarks in tall buildings There's a website on the contested music/architecture quote: http://home.pacifier.com/~ascott/they/tamildaa.htm attributing it to Elvis Costello, c. 1983: "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture - it's a really stupid thing to want to do." - --Elvis Costello, in an interview by Timothy White entitled "A Man out of Time Beats the Clock." Musician magazine No. 60 (October 1983), p. 52. The Web author then gives a summary of other folk to whom the quote has been attributed; but the Costello mention is the only one verified. And no mention of Mitchell, which is the sole Joni content in this post. Denny NP: Boho Dance ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 10:23:13 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: discussion Posting (i am new) Hi Pearl and welcome. Can I separate my life from Joni's music? I hope I never have to find out! Her tunes and words are constantly running through my head. [Pearl's website is a gallery of her cool paintings (and ceramics), featuring some computer still lifes! Worth checking out] RR npimh-The Same Situation Pearlz2swine@aol.com wrote: > Hi....Thanks to Lori I am finally posting something! She saw my profile and > kindly showed me the jmdl ropes..it is a tad confusing! > I got my first Joni Mitchell record (blue) at age 10 and I have been a > devoted listener ever since. But its more than a listener when music becomes > the soundtrack to your life. I have been living with her gifts to me for 33 > years and I wish I could thank her. So THANK YOU instead, for listening to me > thank her..and for being here as a community of people who recognize she has > been a shiny shiny part of living. I cant separate my life from her > music..can you? > Please check my website (www.seegod.net) I am a poet and > painter...Thanks....Good to be here...Pearl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 13:33:53 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: through the wall (sjc) I had to de-lurk to chime in on this subject. First of all, bravo to all who dared to go against the tide and speak what they feel concerning our Joni. It's personally hard for me to separate the artist from the person as far as Joni is concerned because I feel that the two are so integrated. She writes from such a personal level that for me, the two are very intertwined. I don't feel that Joni has crossed the line of arrogance because my little inner alarm hasn't gone off concerning the remarks I've heard her say in interviews. A part of me feels that she has earned the right to say some of the things she says because of her enormous contributions to both the music and the art world. However, I feel that there is a line of egomania that every artist can cross if they are not careful. For me, once they cross that line, I don't care how good their work is, I want nothing to do with them. The group Oasis has reached that saturation point with me and though I am sure they are great artists, I cannot stomach them. I personally love Turbulent Indigo, but was not too big a fan of Taming the Tiger. ( my husband on the other hand loved it, especially the song, "Best to You") To me, it seemed like all of the songs were in the same key, and from a personal standpoint, I needed a little more variety. I liked the song "Lead Balloon", but I felt it was unfinished. I felt that it could have evolved a little more. It just felt like her heart wasn't in it. I can definitely relate to that as I feel that I can also be a rather lazy writer as well. (no disrespect intended towards Joni's abilities) This CD was being recorded at the time she and Kilauren found each other again if I am not mistaken, so there may have been distractions. I miss the brutal self honesty from "Court and Spark" as well as "Heijera," and the keen third party observations of "Hissing". It is these type of musical contributions that endear me to her now and always. I agree with Kakki that there seems to be a self-esteem problem. How I wish we could all sit down with her and help her see what a lasting effect she's had on all of our lives. I wish she could find peace and contentment knowing that she has put out some pretty fantastic work and find happiness in it. If I could put out just one project with the musical superiority that is in her combined works, I would die happy. She has done this many times over. Sherelle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 12:37:35 -0700 From: Julius Raymond Subject: Re: Counting Crow Loves Joni This delights me, Sybil! Hearing this reaffirms my belief in the oneness, the "synchronicity," of everything. Paz knows Anastasia from his Ryan Adams list, she comes to New Orleans Jazzfest from Dallas and I from Northern California, she never stops talking about Adams and the Counting Crows, she knows both Paz and I are totally into Joni, we all see the Crows together in at the fairgrounds, then just a week or so later Duritz writes about meeting Joni and hearing her new recordings in his journal, Anastasia sends the entry to me on the very day he wrote it, I post it on the JMDL...next thing you know your son is listening to Blue and FTR! Duritz's entry makes me look forward with great anticipation to hearing Joni's latest..he seemed to like it alot, didn't he? I can't wait to hear the new "Cherokee Louise" for one. One thing that amused me was reading how Duritz has, like, 7 copies of Blue...I've got about 4 presently, but have bought over a dozen copies over the years in vinyl, cassette and CD. Interesting how some of these musician men are so in awe of Joni that they're sore afraid of meeting her, Jimmy Page, Duritz... Struck me funny also that Adam mentioned Joni's dog in his journal entry, the same little yapping dog that Kakki posted about causing a ruckus at the Daily Grill when she and Stephen had lunch with Joni a while back, remember? Haha! Thanks to gene mock, warren keith, Bob Muller and, of course, Sybil for your kind words of thanks for that post. It is really, really gratifying to know that one's posts are appreciated, when and if they are. And thanks, again, to Michael Paz, Anastasia Keys and Adam Duritz. The Counting Crows have a new CD out themselves, btw, "Hard Candy." - -Julius np: Counting Crows, "Long December" back to back with Joni's "Urge for Going" trying to beat the heat. :-) > I just had to tell you all - after Julius posted about his fabulous trip to > Jazzfest and seeing the Crows and then posted Adam Duritz's diary entry > about Joni, well I was feeling so smug as I passed it on to my 18 year old > son who thinks Adam Duritz hung the moon. > > And guess what happened - he he he, Mom knows best. The very next night I > walked past his (closed, of course) bedroom door and heard the lovely voice > of Joni wafting through (hmmm, so that's where my Blue CD went). A couple > nights later I came in the front door after work only to hear For the Roses > blaring, and he had several friends in there listening as > well. I think > I've created a monster. > > Sybil - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sybil Skelton" To: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 1:59 PM Subject: Re: Counting Crow Loves Joni > I just had to tell you all - after Julius posted about his fabulous trip to > Jazzfest and seeing the Crows and then posted Adam Duritz's diary entry > about Joni, well I was feeling so smug as I passed it on to my 18 year old > son who thinks Adam Duritz hung the moon. > > And guess what happened - he he he, Mom knows best. The very next night I > walked past his (closed, of course) bedroom door and heard the lovely voice > of Joni wafting through (hmmm, so that's where my Blue CD went). A couple > nights later I came in the front door after work only to hear For the Roses > blaring, and he had several friends in there listening as well. I think > I've created a monster. > > Sybil > NP: the sound of me busily hiding CDs from rabid teenagers > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 17:02:04 -0500 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: Joni's crazy sound effects and noises Here's another one I forgot to mention earlier: "Dreamland" - there's a background chant in the song that sounds like 'dream on, dream on, dream on'. The way Joni is singing it and the way the sound is produced makes it sound just like there are mosquitoes buzzing around in your ear. A perfect fit for the rainforest setting in the song! Also, Warren had mentioned the jet plane sound on "Ray's Dad's Cadillac". This reminded me of the transition between "The Boho Dance" and "Harry's House". It sounds like a jet plane landing to me and and "Harry's House" starts off with 'heat waves on the runway, as the wheels set down.......'. Mia _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 00:20:19 +0100 From: "Grace" Subject: Re: through the wall (sjc) I agree with > Kakki that there seems to be a self-esteem problem. How I wish we could all > sit down with her and help her see what a lasting effect she's had on all of > our lives. I wish she could find peace and contentment knowing that she has > put out some pretty fantastic work and find happiness in it. unfortunately, that won't work. If it did, she'd be feeling pretty good about herself. she has had many awards and recognition. Besides, a persons worth does not come from what they do, it comes from just being. we hare human beings not human doings. If Joni relies on what she does, and the praise it brings, to feel good about herslef, then she is making a big mistake. (of course we have no idea what she thinks or really what her self esteem is like). People in general make this mistake of using what we do to feel good about ourselves. hence whent he time comes that we can no longer 'do', we feel miserable and lost. The person who retires, the person whose offspring have elft home home, if they valued themselves purely as a parent or as a worker, are in deep shit. It is a serious mistake made in the west. we are valued not for who we are but for what we do. If we valued people for who they are, human beings, war would not be such a problem, and children wouldn't be starving to daeth, being beaten to death or ............. we aren't what we do. we are what we think. no one is worthless. no one ois worth more than the next person, nor less. yes joni has given us some wonderful music. but that is not her worth. and how sad for us if that is how we measure her and it is catastrophic for her if she measures herself by what she does. simply, the fact we value a nurse more than a road cleaner, is the root of much suuffering..... - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 06/06/02 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 18:58:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: jewels allow me to quote a line I heard while watching Will's Romeo and Juliet at the Festival theatre in Stratford, Ontario this afternoon with my beauteous daughter Miranda...a play which has so many rich layers and meaning...a play which is based on a poem...soooo gorgeous this...anyway....here's a thought Romeo gazes upon Juliet for the first time at the Capulet fest and says... "O, she doth teach the torches to burn bright! It seems she hangs upon the cheek of night ******As a rich jewel in an Ethiop's ear****** sound familiar? Mags, still higher than a kite from watching this magnificent world class performance, which was completely, utterly delightful..especially from the 3rd row...wowowoowow!!!! ===== You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 22:14:26 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: through the wall (sjc) I agree with you Grace that a person cannot be measured simply by what they do, but I feel it is equally as wrong to deny that what we do with our lives and our talents has nothing to do with who we are as people. It is simply an extention of the person we are deep inside. I really hate generalizations which depict an area or group of people having the exact same opinions. I was raised in England during the early part of my life and bear it's love and it's influence. While it is true that many people put too much stock into what you do for a living as defining who you are, I do not think this is confined to a locality. Many societies wrongfully hold it as a measure of worth. I humbly submit that this is just not a western perception, and my comment in no way tried to relegate Joni as simply an singer/songwriter. Her music has touched me deeply, and my wish to reach her was simply to help her understand what she has done as a human being by exposing her vulnerabilities through her art and through her music. Hope that clears things up. Sherelle In a message dated 06/08/2002 4:16:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Grace@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: > I agree with > > Kakki that there seems to be a self-esteem problem. How I wish we could > all > > sit down with her and help her see what a lasting effect she's had on all > of > > our lives. I wish she could find peace and contentment knowing that she > has > > put out some pretty fantastic work and find happiness in it. > > unfortunately, that won't work. If it did, she'd be feeling pretty good > about herself. she has had many awards and recognition. > Besides, a persons worth does not come from what they do, it comes from > just being. we hare human beings not human doings. > If Joni relies on what she does, and the praise it brings, to feel good > about herslef, then she is making a big mistake. (of course we have no idea > what she thinks or really what her self esteem is like). > People in general make this mistake of using what we do to feel good about > ourselves. hence whent he time comes that we can no longer 'do', we feel > miserable and lost. The person who retires, the person whose offspring have > elft home home, if they valued themselves purely as a parent or as a > worker, are in deep shit. > > It is a serious mistake made in the west. we are valued not for who we are > but for what we do. If we valued people for who they are, human beings, war > would not be such a problem, and children wouldn't be starving to daeth, > being beaten to death or ............. > > we aren't what we do. we are what we think. no one is worthless. no one ois > worth more than the next person, nor less. > > yes joni has given us some wonderful music. but that is not her worth. and > how sad for us if that is how we measure her and it is catastrophic for her > if she measures herself by what she does. > > simply, the fact we value a nurse more than a road cleaner, is the root of > much suuffering..... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 00:43:28 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: through the wall (sjc) Grace, sounding quite strangely like our old friend Colin, writes: << yes joni has given us some wonderful music. but that is not her worth. and how sad for us if that is how we measure her and it is catastrophic for her if she measures herself by what she does. >> I loved your post, but Joni has every right to measure herself and find satisfaction with all that she has accomplished, and with all she has yet to create, in her life. Except for that horrific, oft mentioned perm in the '80s, Joni doesn't have a lot to feel bad about. How heady and weird it must be for her to go through life with what amounts to occasional media mentions, periodic awards and recognition, and a small legion of people who get it -- when she should be as revered in her lifetime as Cole Porter or John Lennon were in theirs. Seems to me she did her best, personally and professionally, at every stage of her life, and continues to try to make corrections and amends as she goes along. She was married to Art. Would people have liked her better if she had hooked up with someone else? Maybe. << simply, the fact we value a nurse more than a road cleaner, is the root of much suuffering..... >> I worry more about the fact that we value a doctor more than a nurse. And that road cleaners don't clean arteries, even if you pull over and ask them nicely. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 02:07:47 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: jewels Magnificent Mags writes: << Romeo gazes upon Juliet for the first time at the Capulet fest and says... "O, she doth teach the torches to burn bright! It seems she hangs upon the cheek of night ******As a rich jewel in an Ethiop's ear****** sound familiar? >> Thanks for the heads up, Mags. This is very interesting, to say the least. Sounds to me like that bit about the ruby and the black man's ear that Joni allegedly wrote. Now, I can't help but wonder . . . I don't know about the rest of you, but I for one cannot believe what a plagiarizing nutjob Joni has turned out to be lately! There was that recent bit about stealing that incredible dancing architecture quote from Nietsche or Elvis Costello or Lubovitch or whatever -- and now this! Plus, wasn't there something about "constant as the Northern Star" in Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar?" And I swear I heard Joni singing something that sounded a hell of a lot like a Yeats poem recently. This stuff is happening more and more all the time. Really, just the other day I heard a child shriek "angel hair" as she pointed at a particularly fluffy cumulous down by the new mall. And last Sunday, my parish priest said something about blood and holy wine. Hello! Have alert JMDLers noticed? Is this happening to you, too? Call me crazy, but I see a pattern. So I think you're on to something here, Mags. It's all very creepy, but worthy of investigation. I think this is just another one of those Jonithings we should all look out for as we go through life. Because if Joni is stealing anything -- ideas, allusions, rhymes, or whatever from other writers or performers -- we should be the first to know. It's twisted. Concerned, --Bob NP: Unchained Melody ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #166 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?