From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #165 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, June 8 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 165 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: graveyards [John Low ] Re: through the wall ["gene mock" ] Re: through the wall ["Grace" ] Re: Joni's crazy sound effects and noises ["Grace" ] Re: Joni's crazy sound effects and noises [Lazyasz@aol.com] Re: Conversation [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IGRlZ3JlZXMgb2Ygc2VwYXJhdGlvbiCgTkpD?= [SCJoniGuy@aol.] The Zappa - Mitchell Connection [Julian Parker-Burns ] Re: through the wall ["Grace" ] Re: through the wall ["Grace" ] Re: through the wall ["Grace" ] Re: through the wall ["Grace" ] =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IGRlZ3JlZXMgb2Ygc2VwYXJhdGlvbiCgTkpD?= [SCJoniGuy@aol.] re: Joni's crazy sound effects and noises ["mia ortlieb" ] Re: Joni's crazy sound effects and noises [Engwall57@aol.com] RE: through the wall [Lazyasz@aol.com] Re: Joni's crazy sound effects and noises [WARREN901@aol.com] Covers #30...we have a winner! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni's crazy sound effects and noises [Lori in MD ] Re: Counting Crow Loves Joni ["Sybil Skelton" ] Re: Joni's crazy sound effects and noises ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni's crazy sound effects [KLCass21@aol.com] Re: Counting Crow Loves Joni ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: graveyards ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Joni's crazy sound effects and noises [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni's crazy sound effects [Randy Remote ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 00:37:34 -0700 (PDT) From: John Low Subject: RE: graveyards Kate wrote: "Graveyards are a peaceful yet mysterious place. All these stories of people- -- and no way to know them -- really I love to walk among the headstones and read them and wonder what the person beneath the name looked like and what he did and what she died from and when and of course as a parent the tombstones of children tear at my heart I would very much love to know their stories" I agree with you, Kate! And, this is an opportunity to share with you a beautiful song my brother wrote and sings. Go to: http://simplyaustralia.mountaintracks.com.au/ Click on "Archives" and find, under "Music", the song "At Pennyweight Flat". He wrote it after seeing all the children's graves at this little cemetery in the heart of the 1850s gold rush region of Victoria (Australia). Hope you enjoy it. John (in Sydney) Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 02:02:30 -0700 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: through the wall - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Holliston" To: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 1:06 AM Subject: through the wall (njc) > I feel a bit uncomfortable emerging from lurkdom with such a confrontational > post. But only a bit, so here goes. > First up, I'm not a fan of Neil Young. After The Gold Rush bores me and "My I think what Neil is trying to say is you got to "break rules" in order to sing or write from the soul. Granted early Neil Young is not lyrically complicated compared to his more recent recordings. but nonetheless, I owned most of Neil's recordings. Why? Because there is a bit of honesty and soul when I listen to him. I know this guys sings off key, but I'm mesmerized by his performances. Don't tell me you were bored w/ Neil's "Ohio", "Down By the River", "Cowgirl in the Sand", "Long May You Run", "The Needle and the Damage Done", and when he plays with Crazy Horse------he really rocks. That's soul------from the heart. "As for Joni, she gives me a royal pain in the ass with her fetish for "originality" and her self-importance. I love her work because during the 1970s she really excelled in matching words to music. Even Mingus is a work of genius. But in terms of harmony, there is nothing in Joni's music that would have seemed strange in the 16th century. The 14th century would have found her music very conservative. After Shadows and Light, try as I have since I joined the list, I find her albums tiresome and strained, with the partial exception of Night Ride Home (three cuts) and Turbulent Indigo (two)." As far as your remark about Joni after Shadows and Light-----------You and Joni took a fork in the road. Sure she could keep on doing the same old stuff that got her following, but she had to keep on growing artistically in a different direction. Sorta like your friends in college are probably not the same friends you have now because your goals and their goals are different. My life has grown so that I can relate to just about every album she has done. Maybe because we are about the same age might have something to do with it. IMHO Joni and Neil are all about "breaking the wall (rules)" so that they do sound different. Isn't that the problem w/ music today? Everything sounds the same--------same music, same lyrical topic, same looking groups. Homogenized!!!!!!!!! later gene ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:23:13 +0100 From: "Grace" Subject: Re: through the wall > As for Joni, she gives me a royal pain in the ass with her fetish for > "originality" and her self-importance. I love her work because during the > 1970s she really excelled in matching words to music. Even Mingus is a work > of genius. But in terms of harmony, there is nothing in Joni's music that > would have seemed strange in the 16th century. The 14th century would have > found her music very conservative. > After Shadows and Light, try as I have since I joined the list, I find her > albums tiresome and strained, with the partial exception of Night Ride Home > (three cuts) and Turbulent Indigo (two). > What a brave man you are roberto! I pretty much think the same in regard to your first sentence.(here we would suggest she is 'up herself') Don't know anything about the middle part regarding centuries ago. Disagree with you about her later work. I love it, with NRH and TI being among my faves. You know, one of the things i really miss about pre-internet is not knowing much, if anything, about Joni or Carly. They were an enigma to me and therefore I could hold them up and have my own little fantasy about them. Now I can't. I really miss that. Knwoing so much has taken the shine off them for me. - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 05/06/02 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:24:23 +0100 From: "Grace" Subject: Re: Joni's crazy sound effects and noises - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: ; Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 4:53 AM Subject: Re: Joni's crazy sound effects and noises > Can we count as sound effect the "angry spoken words" in "Harry's House"? > I love that "I said, get down over there". I like it to but I have always heard 'get down off of there' and it has always stuck in my mind because of using off and of together. Not that it is wrong, just sounds odd. > joseph > whose favorite is still HOSL > - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 05/06/02 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:26:58 +0100 From: "Grace" Subject: Re: through the wall nothing to add-just removing the NJC - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 10:20 AM Subject: Re: through the wall (njc) > Hey Roberto, > > I can't let you be the only to raise a head above the parapets! > > First, Neil Young. I'm not a huge fan, but I do like a lot of his stuff. I > even like his first album, which seems to be something of a minority interest > ("The Loner" is a terrific song). His renaissance in the 90s was as > heartening as it was unexpected. > > HOWEVER! Paul Weller, that firebrand of the 70s and 80s, once said in an > interview, in recognition of his unusually high hot air/fair comment ratio in > his conversation, the following: "90% of what I've said has been complete and > utter bollocks." Substitute the word "garbage" for "bollocks" and throw in a > bit of humility, and Neil Young might have said that. It wasn't just his > muse that went walkabout in the 80s - his brain seemed to too. I remember > his lurches across the political spectrum and his violently homophobic > pronouncements as well as the inxplicable Trans album. So, a pinch of salt > with what he's apparently been saying about music. > > Then there's Joni with the economy-sized chip on her shoulder. This is not > to forget that she can be the most engaging conversationalist around, as > heard in live recordings, interviews and by those of us lucky enough to have > met her. Still, she IS always banging on about how there's nobody with any > talent out there, formula junk food for girlie guile, blah blah blah. I wish > she'd stop moaning about the dearth of good songs being written and music > being made and start listening to [insert name of your fave unsung genius > here]. It might buck her ideas up a bit - as it is, she's in danger of > becoming the Norma Desmond of the popular song. > > As to the vexed question of her post S&L output, I agree with you, and I've > probably said enough about that in the past. And I have to confess (and I > know I'm always banging on about this!) that Both Sides Now completely lost > its appeal for me after a couple of listens; once I'd admired the beautiful > arrangements and the lush sound, there was nothing left to enjoy, and I don't > even have it any more. > > Azeem in London > NP: Paraguay v Spain (yes, watching yet more football!) > - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 05/06/02 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 05:22:48 EDT From: Lazyasz@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's crazy sound effects and noises The Reocurring Dream - enough said The Jungle Line - the drums, the background chanting, and Joni's little "...the drums, the drums, it's the drums, the drums, the drums" (BTW is The Jungle Line the first known example of sampling and tape-looping in music, cause they seemed totally unique at the time) The Hissing of Summer Lawns - the little percussion effect which makes it sound as if one is walking on grass God Must Be A Boogie Man - The background choir of institution escapees (Are all those voices Joni's or did she have some of the band fill that in?) The Magdeline Laundries - following of the 90's trend of Joan adding ambient synth layers to flesh out her songs ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 08:31:23 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Conversation <> Yes Matt, your hunch is correct...her earlier performances of "Conversation" included the extra lyrics, and most of us 'old-timers' have a recording or two of her singing them. If you'd like copies for yourself, I'll be happy to set you up for blanks & postage. If I've learned one thing about Joni here, it's that her official catalogue is just the tip of the iceberg to appreciating her work...like Dr. Seuss says in "On Beyond Zebra": "Some people stop at the Z, but not me!" :~) Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Please Wake Me Up" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 08:42:57 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IGRlZ3JlZXMgb2Ygc2VwYXJhdGlvbiCgTkpD?= Bobbie Gentry & Glen Campbell recorded an album together...I remember them together on his TV show a lot as well. I guess they were probably more than just musical partners... Anyway, Glen does a very pretty version of...do I have to say it? ;~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 06:00:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Parker-Burns Subject: The Zappa - Mitchell Connection Hello All, Just wanted to delurk on this one... Zappa has mentioned Joni Mitchell in his Billy the Mountain epic, "...by the frozen beef pies was Joni Mitchell's autograph..." or something like that from "Just Another Band from LA" album. I will say again what I said ages ago: Joni is a true artist. She may be adored by many and scorned by others but she remains honest to her art and continues to be the underlying inspiration to many, many others who came after her who, perhaps, have had more commercial success. The same goes for Zappa, Beefheart, Laura Nyro, Yoko Ono, Annette Peacock, Harry Partch, Lord Buckley, Raymond Scott, Diamanda Galas and many more, I'm sure...all folks who remained true to their vision however commercially unacceptable it may have been and have all been acknowledged as real groundbreakers and inspirations to what found it's way in to the top 40. (Just my two cents). On other Joni fields...Here in Taiwan I just came across "Shadows & Light" on DVD and quickly purchased it. Overall, very cool and a joy to see these songs played by people I've had so much respect for...but perhaps the biggest thrill was to see the Westcoast early 80s crowd in all their hair and beads and mellow clothes...beaming back at Joni (with that silly perm, no less). Jaco's Third Stone jam was a treat as well. It's interesting to see Joni as a video maker. With the tools at her disposal at that time she did a fine job...what would she do nowadays if whe were to do it again. Very happy to add it to my collection. On the subject of sound effects...Perhaps one of my favorite Joni tunes is from Dog Eat Dog (yes, really, no foolin') "Empty (Try Another)"...for its looped cigarette machine. Take care all, Julian ===== Julian's Art Gallery can be seen at: http://community.webshots.com/user/julianparkerburns Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 09:41:10 EDT From: ZZScotty@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's crazy sound effects and noises Not quite on point, but: Two weeks ago I had the privilege of camping in a remote area inside Big Bend National Park (in the gorgeous Chihuahuan desert). Around dusk one evening, when the cicadas were chirping, I turned on Night Ride Home, on the car's cd player, with the doors open. Each time I increased the volume, the cicadas got louder. By the time I got the volume up to about the loudest it ever gets, the cicadas were chirping so loudly that they almost drowned out Joni. It was a wonderful experience. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 10:06:38 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IGRlZ3JlZXMgb2Ygc2VwYXJhdGlvbiCgTkpD?= <> But yours was so much more creative, Azeem! Assuming that Bobbie's "I'll Never Fall In Love Again" was the Bacharach/David song, you could also go to Elvis Costello, who worked with Bacharach and who also recorded "Edith & The Kingpin" for the "when the hell is it going to see the light of day, probably never" Joni Tribute CD "A Case of Joni"! Bob NP: Ani, "Angry Anymore", 11/21/99 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 15:39:11 +0100 From: "Grace" Subject: Re: through the wall I started thinking that this may be less about arrogance > and uppityness and more about maybe a real self-esteem problem and some kind > of inexplicable (to us at least) insecurity on her part. It makes me feel a > little sad for her. I think she is speaking from some deep hurt that > apparently she cannot transcend. i think that is probably a very astute assessment. - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 05/06/02 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 15:39:24 +0100 From: "Grace" Subject: Re: through the wall - ----- Original Message ----- From: Vince Lavieri To: kakki Cc: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 1:33 PM Subject: Re: through the wall (njc) > kakki wrote: > > > I started thinking that this may be less about arrogance > > and uppityness and more about maybe a real self-esteem problem and some kind > > of inexplicable (to us at least) insecurity on her part. It makes me feel a > > little sad for her. I think she is speaking from some deep hurt that > > apparently she cannot transcend. Don't mean to psychoanalyze her - just my 2 > > cents. > > Kakki, I agree 100% havig never met her. I can see it in her eyes, the way she > looks at the audience, when she performs. > > Vince > - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 05/06/02 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 15:39:47 +0100 From: "Grace" Subject: Re: through the wall - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mags N Brei To: ; kakki ; ; ; Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 3:07 PM Subject: Re: through the wall (njc) > Kakki wrote: > > < > apparently she cannot transcend. Don't mean to psychoanalyze her - > > just my 2 cents. >> > > and in response, Bob M. wrote: > > > > < difficult, > > probably impossible, to care about an artist's work and not care > > about the artist as well, particularly when she has "sondtracked" so > > many life experiences for a lot of us. I feel like we all like to > > revel in her victories and are sympathetic in her sorrows. And I > > think (like Lama so poignantly described) that her relationship with > > her daughter and her mother has been such a powerful driver for her > > all along, I think a lot of what factors into her bitterness is the > > conflicted relationship with Kilauren.>> > > I am stopped in my emotional tracks each and every time this issue > arises on the list. I am motivated to write today because I am > particularly drawn to Kakki's descripton of Joni's deep hurt, as well > as the "conflicted relationship with Kilauren" part of your post Bob. > > The experience of losing a child to adoption, and the effects thereof, > are life long and deep. Unspeakable. They don't go away, especially > when reunion takes place. Reunion does not create that place of > instantaneous healing or bonding whatsoever. > > Imagine what that might feel like, knowing that you are about to meet > the baby-now-adult you gave up many years ago, when, at the time, you > were told you could get on with your life, that you were doing that > "right" thing, that you would indeed "get over it", that you would > never see them again. Ever. And here you are climbing those stairs, a > cold fear moves through you like a damp fog, rolling and rolling > through each and every cell, each and every memory. You know into each > and every step you take, you know. You know they are sitting at that > table at the restaurant. You know they arrived while you were > downstairs to make that one last phonecall to gather up some last > minute reassurance because you are so scared you just might explode > into a million little pieces...and how do you know they have arrived. > You just do. Reunion is like that. Magic. Knowing. > > In the moments prior to that first meeting, a visit, rather a head on > collision with fear, like none Ive ever known, occurs. The fear inside > is unbelievable. Unspeakable. Painful. A vortex of 'what ifs' swirl > madly inside, all the while you are trying to be present as this calm, > cool grown up woman who 'made a mistake', and who really had 'no > choice'. All of a sudden you become that young woman, again. And you > cannot speak. Frozen in time. Staring, mesmerized by the image of your > self in a perfect and beautiful stranger. Haunting moment. > > To give up an infant and then so many years later, meet that baby > turned adult is one of the most powerful, overwhelming, terrifying > things I have ever done. There is no way that you can ever be prepared. > Ever. You can logic it all out neatly, you can tell yourself, oh yes, I > had no choice, what else could I do. > > Joni didnt even tell her own parents, which was my experience as well. > There are so many layers and levels of complicit secrecy and when it > all comes out into the open, all hell breaks loose emotionally. And on > it goes. It never stops. Reunion has a life of its own. > > Having been there, I can only begin to imagine what it might have been > and continues to be like for Joni, especially because she is so > exposed, so much in the limelight, or the floodlights at times. I feel > for her and for Kilauren, having to go through this the public > microscope. > > I write from this place of the very personal with the hope that I can > bring understanding to Joni's experience. (I am shaking like a leaf as > I write, and yes, the tears still fall, twenty seven years later). So > you see, I can understand. I get it. Losing a child to adoption affects > her. How can it not. She wears it like she wears her skin, it is a part > of her very soul. It is imprinted into each and every cell. It has to > be. > > The pain of losing a child to adoption does not go away. Reunion brings > joy, absolutely, and it also brings up old pain as well as new and it > rolls over and over you, especially at those signifiers of maple trees > breaking free each and every spring, or the colour blue. > > That old pain flies up in your face like it was yesterday. Some of the > answers to a thousand questions screamed in silence for years and years > appear in fragments. And many do not, because you dare not ask. > > Knowing is better than not knowing. However, how do you reconcile who > this person is to you. You are not their 'mother'..they did not grow up > knowing you as that. You remember the baby, and here is this adult > 'stranger' who sets off all kinds of biological alarms inside you. And > how do you fit into the scheme of things with the person who is their > mother. You throw up your hands and wonder, now what. Try to create > something new, but what. Thanks for bearing with this. Every so often, > I need to break the silence. > > Jezebel. Life sentence. > > > Mags > > > > > > > > ===== > You open my heart, you do. > Yes you do. > - JM > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com > - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 05/06/02 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 15:40:02 +0100 From: "Grace" Subject: Re: through the wall - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; ; Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 2:08 PM Subject: Re: through the wall (njc) > I think she has more confidence in herself than perhaps she's willing to > admit. Why else would she be putting out this double CD? I think what we have > now is a more mature Joni. Yep, she's the mature artist now and about to > receive her reward. I'm psyched! I'll follow whichever way her artistic > endeavers lead. > > just my 2 cents > an optimistic rose in nj > - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 05/06/02 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 15:40:17 +0100 From: "Grace" Subject: Re: through the wall - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "kakki" ; ; ; Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 1:37 PM Subject: Re: through the wall (njc) > < apparently she cannot transcend. Don't mean to psychoanalyze her - just my 2 cents. >> > > I don't think you're psychoanalyzing at all, Kakki...it's difficult, probably impossible, to care about an artist's work and not care about the artist as well, particularly when she has "sondtracked" so many life experiences for a lot of us. I feel like we all like to revel in her victories and are sympathetic in her sorrows. And I think (like Lama so poignantly described) that her relationship with her daughter and her mother has been such a powerful driver for her all along, I think a lot of what factors into her bitterness is the conflicted relationship with Kilauren. > > Bob > > NP: Tom Waits, "More Than Rain" > - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 05/06/02 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 10:54:00 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IGRlZ3JlZXMgb2Ygc2VwYXJhdGlvbiCgTkpD?= <> Max Baer Sr. was a boxer, Jimmy...I'm about 99% sure that "Jethro" directed the film. <> Great connection...Besides the version on Randy's "Crown of Jewels" disc, he does a version on the classic Nitty Gritty Dirt Band project "Will the Circle Be Unbroken" and also (and my favorite) a version on The Earl Scruggs Revue's live LP, where it's a beautiful duet with a violin, although in this case it's more apt to call it a fiddle, I suppose! Congrats to you on your anniversary, Jimmy! Bob NP: Bonnie Raitt, "Takin' My Time" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 10:16:42 -0500 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: Joni's crazy sound effects and noises Hi Abby, I also like that crazy sound on "Nathan LaFraneer". Inside the album cover, under the musicians credits, it mentions Lee Keefer and Joni Mitchell on banshee. Now I've never seen a banshee instrument, nor do I know how one is played, but I would bet this is the instrument that we hear on Nathan LaFraneer. In Irish folklore, a banshee is a female spirit that delivers her eerie kind of wailing noise to warn a family of an approaching death of a member. "Nathan LaFraneer" is so hauntingly chilling that this noise really fits the setting in the song (the ghostly garden grows). Some other mentions: "Troubled Child" -I really love the instruments after the words 'breaking like the waves at malibu'. I love the way they come together with a big crescendo, then a crash at the end. This really sounds like ocean waves to me. "This Flight Tonight" - After singing about how she's got the headphones up high, she sings "they're playing 'goodbye baby, baby goodbye'" and this part sounds just like you are sitting next to someone with their headphones up too high. Mia _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 08:47:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: through the wall Mags et al. I've been unable to keep up with my JMDL reading since my monitor died (4 months out of warranty). You asked me if I really thought, (as I said in the essay) that Joan/Joni is painless now that she's reacquinted with Kelly/Kilaruen. I don't think that. I know it's way more complex than that. In the essay, I was exploring whether or not the Kelly/Kilauren timeline could be tied to her precipitous drop in interest (and quality?) of writing. I was *amazed* how strong the link was and in my enthusiasm to publish, I overstated the 'painless' aspect. Maybe instead of being pain-free, she's putting all of her energy *into* Kelly/Kilauren where previously it went into writing. Thanks for posting about your experience, Mags. It's really a beautiful and human thing to share with us. It sounds like it must be one of the most profound experiences possible. Thank you. Love, Lama From: Mags N Brei > > I am stopped in my emotional tracks each and every > time this issue > > arises on the list. LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 12:02:04 -0400 From: Engwall57@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's crazy sound effects and noises > > Can we count as sound effect the "angry spoken words" in "Harry's House"? > > I love that "I said, get down over there". > I like it to but I have always heard 'get down off of there' and it has always stuck in my mind because of using off and of together. Not that it is wrong, just sounds odd. > > joseph > > whose favorite is still HOSL > > > > It sounds to me like Harry's wife is yelling at her kid to get off of something, like maybe the sofa she refers to in the next line - "Sure am sick of that sofa". Ruthie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:12:37 EDT From: Lazyasz@aol.com Subject: RE: through the wall < I started thinking that this may be less about arrogance Subject: Re: Joni's crazy sound effects and noises Joseph wrote: > I like it to but I have always heard 'get down off of there' and it has > always stuck in my mind because of using off and of together. Not that it > is wrong, just sounds odd. I've always heard it as "get down off of there" too, and to me it sounds like a midwestern or prairie -- or "plain folks" -- expression. "Proper" folks would probably say, "get down FROM there." Lori ~ Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 15:59:48 -0500 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Re: Counting Crow Loves Joni I just had to tell you all - after Julius posted about his fabulous trip to Jazzfest and seeing the Crows and then posted Adam Duritz's diary entry about Joni, well I was feeling so smug as I passed it on to my 18 year old son who thinks Adam Duritz hung the moon. And guess what happened - he he he, Mom knows best. The very next night I walked past his (closed, of course) bedroom door and heard the lovely voice of Joni wafting through (hmmm, so that's where my Blue CD went). A couple nights later I came in the front door after work only to hear For the Roses blaring, and he had several friends in there listening as well. I think I've created a monster. Sybil NP: the sound of me busily hiding CDs from rabid teenagers _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 15:57:08 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Joni's crazy sound effects and noises I have such fond memories of an extended time of camping in Big Bend (a month or so) back in the hippy daze when I was traveling traveling traveling...looking for my home, where can it be... Anyway, love those NRH crickets & this story about the chirping cicadas singing along! >>Two weeks ago I had the privilege of camping in a remote area inside Big Bend National Park (in the gorgeous Chihuahuan desert).<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 16:58:26 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: graveyards my best friend in grade school lived on the other side of town...the shortest way to each others house was through & big ol graveyard...only went through there in the daytime but kind of fun, looking at all the headstones & some very big fancy mausoleums... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 19:54:56 EDT From: KLCass21@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's crazy sound effects I love the thunderous drums that sound like firing cannons and the haunting sirens in Slouching Towards Bethlehem. "Opening its eyes after 20 centuries, Vexed to a nightmare out of a stoney sleep", is one of those (many) moments, to me, that define joni's brilliance. I don't think this song would be one of my favorites without these effects. Speaking of brilliance, I am curious to know from the musicians on the list: If you were asked to choose 1 Joni song that best exemplifies her brilliance as a guitar player, what song would you suggest? Kurt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 20:08:51 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Counting Crow Loves Joni This boy must be extraordinarily special Sybil. mack ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 02:12:24 +0100 From: "Grace" Subject: through the wall Kate wrote: i grew up with early neil young but never paid much attention to him after that...i am not one of those neil young freaks& in fact am often quite critical of some of his stuff...however last year's concert was one of the very best i'd ever witnessed of anyone...the man is possessed of an amazing purity of musical soulfullness...also i thought his version of imagine at the concert for nyc was of the same deep stuff... kakki "I started thinking that this may be less about arrogance and uppityness and more about maybe a real self-esteem problem and some kind of inexplicable (to us at least) insecurity on her part. It makes me feel a little sad for her. I think she is speaking from some deep hurt that apparently she cannot transcend." this makes so much sense, & makes me sad too...& although i envy (which is not quite the right word, its more like aspire to...)her incredible talent & the respect she has among musicians & audience alike (that maybe she doesn't quite believe?), i do not envy much of what she has experienced in her life (except i really really really wanted to hang with all those folks up at mama cass's house!) & she has had her fair share of sorrows... we all know that she has had great outside success but that is not always a blessing as far as how one's inner life goes...i'm sure she has had many who wanted something from her because of the celebrity she is, rather than for who she is as a human... & the unexpressible sorrow of giving up her child for adoption...that is something that could never be completely healed...even as someone who raised her child (pretty much alone), i have deep sorrows & regrets for what i did & did not do & it hurts to know that i can't go back & change a thing, it also hurts so much to think about how my life was such a struggle during the time i was raising him alone & now that my life is so much easier its too late to go back & give him what i wish i could have then...i can imagine joni must feel somewhat that way...if only if only...but how could she know she'd be successful & have the money to be able to raise her daughter...that must haunt her so painfully & deeply... what constantly amazes me is the strength & vision she had back when she was young, when the music biz was much more of a man's world than it is now (& it still is)...& how as a very young woman she was able to carve out her place & manifest her own creative vision...as her fans we see her success & think oh how wonderful...but the road to that success i am sure was filled with much pain & disillusionment...for the music biz attracts the very best & the very worst of humanity...(perhaps this is why i favor her earlier recordings...they have more of the flower child innocence...) and last but not least, to mags who wrote "Losing a child to adoption affects her. How can it not. She wears it like she wears her skin, it is a part of her very soul. It is imprinted into each and every cell. It has to be." thank you for sharing your innermost journey with us all, thanks for your beautiful, eloquent & courageous words...may you all find healing through time... ps, last night i had a dream about joni...she was beautiful, peaceful but kind of tired, maybe after a show or something...we'd been talking & noticing her fatigue, i gingerly asked her if she wanted a neck rub, she said yes, & after that we were great friends...i don't know where she was but she was sitting on a big comfy chair & had a light blue dress on...what a sweet dream... - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 05/06/02 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 20:14:51 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: graveyards Up the hill and in the wooded region not far from my house is an old cemetery. Almost completely occluded it is now. Some relatives of my parents are buried there. It is full of snakes and other creatures. Very interesting to walk through it though it can be quite eerie too. Many stones tell the story of the flu epidemic back in the early part of the century and there are very many babies buried there. One group has five siblings, all under the age of 5, planted there. The grief that it must have caused the parents. The most interesting stone, and there are many, is one that reads "killed by unknown parties." This was a young man that was hanged on the higher hill not far from the cemetery. Rarely go there these days but can understand the attraction. mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 22:55:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni's crazy sound effects and noises - --- Lori in MD wrote: > Joseph wrote: > > > I like it to but I have always heard 'get down off > of there' and it has > > always stuck in my mind because of using off and > of together. Not that it > > is wrong, just sounds odd. > > I've always heard it as "get down off of there" too, > and to me it sounds like a midwestern or prairie -- > or "plain folks" -- expression. "Proper" folks > would probably say, "get down FROM there." I'm sure it's "Get down offa there!" - exactly the kind of thing my mum used to yell at my sisters and me when we clowning around, climbing over the furniture and so on. Or, she could have been yelling at one of the cats (as if that does any good!) ______________________________________________________________________ Movies, Music, Sports, Games! http://entertainment.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 23:09:34 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: The Zappa - Mitchell Connection Julian Parker-Burns wrote: > Joni is a true artist. > The > same goes for Zappa, Beefheart, Laura Nyro, Yoko Ono, > Annette Peacock, Harry Partch, Lord Buckley, Don't hear Lord Buckley mentioned very often. He is, of course, the originator of the "Willie The Shake" phrase, from his comedic story of the same name about Shakespeare. There is a new, and quite wonderful book about Buckley by Oliver Trager called "Dig Infinity". RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 23:14:03 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni's crazy sound effects KLCass21@aol.com wrote: > Speaking of brilliance, I am curious to know from the musicians on the list: > If you were asked to choose 1 Joni song that best exemplifies her brilliance > as a guitar player, what song would you suggest? > > Kurt I would pick "Woman of Heart and Mind". It kind of incapsulates her unique style of playing and tuning, and it has those little chromatic riffs that she whisks off so nicely. Another that comes to mind is "Silky Veils of Ardor". RR ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #165 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?