From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #163 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, June 6 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 163 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Love: never looks for love ["brian symes" ] Re: Joni and the web ["Marian Russell " ] Re: Joni on DVD [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Still open to guesses! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Love: never looks for love [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: [JMDLLEZ] not an answer - just another question [anne@sandstrom.com] RE: dancing to architecture ["Victor Johnson" ] RE: dancing to architecture [Denny Giovanetti ] Re: dancing about architecture [FredNow@aol.com] Re: when is the new album coming out? ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] RE: dancing to architecture ["patrick leader" ] Re: Love: never looks for love [Randy Remote ] Re: dancing to architecture....Joni and FZ ["Mark or Travis" Subject: Love: never looks for love After some testifying about Joni at her best I thought I would add that after getting such bad vibes from the phillistines about Mingus, when Joni finally came back and recorded WTRF Her spirit was filled with Love as every song is about this very subject.On the whole the songs look back to the rock and roll days,the LA express sound,jazz from Mingus and Be cool sounds so much like Bernsteins song in West Side Story. Wayne Shorter inventing a type of background echo and riff's that will show up on future work with Joni. She is the master of her voice in WTRF she runs up and down the scales that makes other female rockers sound like one note squackers.On these songs she defines the music not the other way around. She was giving Geffen her very best. Brian Symes Architect Dancing with Architecture is a way of designing it Visualize a hummingbird working around a columbine in full bloom,The cat on a fence jumping down on the emerging mole, Amelia at 3 calling out a cloud as an airplane,then turning into a jumping puppy. Goodnightall. NP JM Track 11 on WTRF Love - -- _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 03:22:10 -0400 From: "Marian Russell " Subject: Re: Joni and the web Brian Symes wrote: >To discover more Joni Trivia I typed in >two words "whisker wheat" and sure enough >the search engine came up with jmdl.com / >Lyrics/ coyote ! Then I always wanted to >know exactly what a "kick pleat skirt" was >and sure enough Amazon .com is selling them >for $ 16.00 Wow! great idea, Brian! I just searched for "raveen curls" and got: http://www.comm.uiuc.edu/Advertising/wisdommm/html/10ll180.htm You can see what they look like! Marian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 08:13:13 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on DVD <> That's a funny bit of synchronicity, Kurt...I've been contemplating converting my VHS of "Refuge" to DVD. I'll keep you posted. Bob NP: Psychedelic Furs, "Better Days" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 08:30:54 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Still open to guesses! Just a quick reminder...if you want a shot at a free copy of "Covers, Volume 30", I'm still taking them through Thursday midnight. Just pick a song on a Joni record and the album it's on. Thanks to all who have guessed thus far! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 05:51:28 -0700 (PDT) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: Love: never looks for love > Be cool sounds so much like Bernsteins song in West Side Story. My God, you're right!Now I have to go listen to it again. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 06:13:50 -0700 (PDT) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: [JMDLLEZ] not an answer - just another question I just went back and listened to Ellen McIlwaine's version of Ode to Billy Joe. If you have any doubts about this song, THIS is the version to listen to. It 's like she took all the sweetener out of the Bobbie Gentry version and injected a shot of whiskey. Great, great version - and it doesn't leave you wondering what they dropped off the bridge so much as just makes you feel the desperation of the girl who sings the song. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:37:58 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: dancing to architecture > furthermore, i think nietsche's statement is perverse in its avoidance of > the fact that art is always searching to describe what's outside of itself. > does joni think writing should only be about writing? does she write music > that's only about music? is poetry about love lame because it's not > actually love? of course not, but neitsche and joni miss that point. > This excerpt from a Neil Young interview below I think really captures the idea about art, music in this case, searching to describe what's outside of itself. I think Joni's statement is more about herself, as statements often are, that "she" probably couldn't write about music...but some people do very well... Victor *EXCERPT from New York Times - Sunday Magazine 7/30/00 Neil Young On a Good Day By Steve Erickson ''I just didn't like people telling me what to do,'' he explains almost offhandedly. ''I didn't like people telling me if I made more records like 'Harvest,' I would be successful. That's when I came up with the concept of destroying what I created in order to move on. I wanted to do what I called audio verite.'' He pauses and looks out the window. ''At a certain point, trained, accomplished musicians'' -- which is to say, not him -- hit the wall. They don't go there very often, they don't have the tools to go through the wall, because it's the end of notes. It's the other side, where there's only tone, sound, ambience, landscape, earthquakes, pictures, fireworks, the sky opening, buildings falling, subways collapsing. . . . When you go through the wall, the music takes on that kind of atmosphere, and it doesn't translate the way other music translates. When you get to the other side, you can't go back. I don't know too many musicians who try to go through the wall.'' He stops for a moment. ''I love to go through the wall,'' as if you ever doubted it for a moment. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 07:53:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Denny Giovanetti Subject: RE: dancing to architecture I think that the original is a comparison, viz, "Architecture is frozen music," or some such. Never quite got that one; esp. regarding the simplistic comparison of one form with another. Detracts from the significance of either, yes? (And, historically, music does pre-date architecture, going back to the days when folk lived in simple minor chord structures.) Denny, wondering which pile the Bartlett's is under ? "The American public wants tragedy with a happy ending." --Wm. Dean Howells ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 03:11:41 +1200 From: "Tom Rodwell" Subject: Re: dancing to architecture....Joni and FZ Hi folks, First time poster here. I think the quote about "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture" might have been a Frank Zappa quote... it sounds like the kinda thing he'd say about "the imaginary journalistic profession", and I'm pretty sure I've seen an interview where he uses it. As a musician and occasional journalist (I interviewed Karen O'Brien in late December here in NZ for a local broadsheet) it's one of my favourite quotes - although, yes, I must admit it also has a Nietzschean ring to it. Speaking of FZ, I have a hundred or so 'audience recordings', but not the one where Joni joined the group onstage at the Fillmore in 70 or 71. Does anyone on the list have it? I believe she improvised a song/poem including the words "Penelope wants to fuck the sea"...with Zappa conducting the Mothers of Invention behind her. Cheers, Tom Rodwell Auckland New Zealand ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:54:50 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: [JMDLLEZ] not an answer - just another question I just love that tune. I've never heard of Ellen McIlwaine. Anne, which album is that on? I would like to order one of her cd's and check it out. donna - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of anne@sandstrom.com Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 8:14 AM To: courtandspark@earthlink.net Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: [JMDLLEZ] not an answer - just another question I just went back and listened to Ellen McIlwaine's version of Ode to Billy Joe. If you have any doubts about this song, THIS is the version to listen to. It 's like she took all the sweetener out of the Bobbie Gentry version and injected a shot of whiskey. Great, great version - and it doesn't leave you wondering what they dropped off the bridge so much as just makes you feel the desperation of the girl who sings the song. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 12:33:58 -0400 From: Engwall57@aol.com Subject: Re: Funeral Soundtrack If I were making a funeral soundtrack, my top choice would be Sweet Bird. It makes quite a statement about the brevity of life, and its preciousness. It might inspire some of the mourners to make some changes or go out and do something they had been putting off, before their turn in the casket came. Another song I would choose is My Best to You from TTT. I know Joni did not write it, but the way in which she sings it is like a benediction. I would play it at the end of the service. It is like Joni is singing to everyone, "Go in Peace". Another possible choice would be Songs to Aging Children. That song was used in a funeral scene in Alice's Restaurant. Joni's performance of it has an other worldly sound. I think everyone should plan their own funeral in advance. I keep trying to talk my husband into pre-buying a plot, so we can go there for picnics before the fact, and kind of get used to it, but that is too bizarre for him. Regards, Ruth from Richmond ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 10:43:46 -0700 From: John Goldsmith Subject: when is the new album coming out? I've been anxious since november, awaiting for our muse's by-product. does anybody know a release date? thanks john ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:16:51 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: dancing about architecture "patrick leader" writes: >i think the original quote is "writing about music is like dancing about >architecture" and i think joni stole it (as she so often does) from >nietsche. usually she gives him credit, though. > >i hate the comment, though, whether it's from joni, jerry garcia, or >nietsche. i think, at the minimum, it displays ignorance about the >possibilities of dancing. as a visual art, dancing is actually well-suited >to be "about" architecture ... I've always seen the quote attributed to Thelonious Monk, but who knows who really said it. In any case, I totally agree with Patrick; this ubiquitous quote has always been one of my pet peeves. Beyond choreographers who have created dances about architecture (and there have been more than a few), dance itself is all about architecture! It's about weight, balance, shape, form, perspective, and the interdependent relationship of these. And it's eminently possible to write about music; it can be done well or not, just like anything else. All that aside, however, there is a sense implied by that quote that there are intangible but nevertheless quite real things pure music can express which words (or dance, or architecture, or anything else) cannot, and that is very true. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:25:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: when is the new album coming out? Hi John, Good question. A release date has not been announced on the official website. To find out the latest at any time go to: http://www.jonimitchell.com/Frames1.html There's no release date posted yet. Until then, would you like a cassette of the Camden, NJ stop of the "Both Sides Now" tour? A friend of mine made an audience recording using superb microphones and a portable digital recorder. He gave me a first-generation ultra-quality cassette dub on the condition that I spread the joy. Contact me off-list if you want to hear Vince's arrangements of "Judgement Of the Moon And Stars" and "Be Cool". These titles are rumored to included in the upcoming 2 CDs to be released as separate titles. Lamadoo Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:46:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Re FTR for the first time Cool. Sorry, Mike. I had just seen "Episode Two" and I was 'hearing' what I 'wanted to hear'. Speaking of hearing, I just listened to a $400 CD player today and boy, howdy! It wipes the floor in every respect with this little $120 jobbie I've had. I've re-doubled my commitment to double my income. The sax! The cymbals! The band eases and pushes- it breathes like real music. It doesn't sound like it's taut along a wire- thin and compressed. Lama - --- Mike Pritchard wrote: > No, Lama, it is > not the first time I had heard FTR, but it WAS the > first time I had heard > it through good 'phones Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:40:22 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: dancing to architecture nice, nice words from neil. i don't agree with your take on joni's motivation, but that's just fine. thanks a lot for this bit. patrick np - taming the tiger, which i've for some reason been listening a lot to lately. just love the title song. be nice, kitty, kitty... >-----Original Message----- >From: Victor Johnson [mailto:waytoblu@mindspring.com] >Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:38 PM >To: joni@smoe.org; patrick leader >Subject: RE: dancing to architecture > > > >> >> furthermore, i think nietsche's statement is perverse in its avoidance of >> the fact that art is always searching to describe what's outside of >itself. >> does joni think writing should only be about writing? does she write >music >> that's only about music? is poetry about love lame because it's not >> actually love? of course not, but neitsche and joni miss that point. >> > >This excerpt from a Neil Young interview below I think really captures the >idea about art, music in this case, searching to describe what's outside of >itself. I think Joni's statement is more about herself, as statements >often are, that "she" probably couldn't write about music...but some people >do very well... > >Victor > >*EXCERPT from > >New York Times - Sunday Magazine 7/30/00 > >Neil Young On a Good Day >By Steve Erickson > > >''I just didn't like people telling me what to do,'' he explains almost >offhandedly. ''I didn't like people telling me if I made more records like >'Harvest,' I would be successful. That's when I came up with the concept of >destroying what I created in order to move on. I wanted to do what I called >audio verite.'' > >He pauses and looks out the window. ''At a certain point, trained, >accomplished musicians'' -- which is to say, not him -- hit the wall. They >don't go there very often, they don't have the tools to go through the >wall, because it's the end of notes. It's the other side, where there's >only tone, sound, ambience, landscape, earthquakes, pictures, fireworks, >the sky opening, buildings falling, subways collapsing. . . . When you go >through the wall, the music takes on that kind of atmosphere, and it >doesn't translate the way other music translates. When you get to the other >side, you can't go back. I don't know too many musicians who try to go >through the wall.'' He stops for a moment. ''I love to go through the >wall,'' as if you ever doubted it for a moment. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 16:21:27 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Love: never looks for love I agree totally, and will add that it was the last album she did before ciggies claimed her voice. rfc, RR brian symes wrote: > After some testifying about Joni at her best I thought I would add that after getting such bad vibes from the phillistines about Mingus, when Joni finally came back and recorded WTRF Her spirit was filled with Love as every song is about this very subject.On the whole the songs look back to the rock and roll days,the LA express sound,jazz from Mingus and Be cool sounds so much like Bernsteins song in West Side Story. Wayne Shorter inventing a type of background echo and riff's that will show up on future work with Joni. She is the master of her voice in WTRF she runs up and down the scales that makes other female rockers sound like one note squackers.On these songs she defines the music not the other way around. > She was giving Geffen her very best. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:16:36 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: dancing to architecture....Joni and FZ I believe she improvised a song/poem including > the words "Penelope wants to f**k the sea"...with Zappa conducting the > Mothers of Invention behind her. > > Welcome, Todd. I've never heard about this performance but I do know there is a book of poetry that Joni created and I believe hand printed a very few copies of for friends called 'Morning Glory on the Vine'. It has a poem in it entitled 'Penelope Wants to F**k the Sea' (the asterisks are for those who may get their Joni mail at work and/or have filters that auto-delete mail with certain words in them). I had the privilege of actually seeing one of these rara avis when Leslie Mixon visited Seattle several years ago and was kind enough to bring one with her and let me peruse it. (Natasha, if you're out there, I miss you.) I believe there's someone else on the list who has a copy of this book. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 22:26:20 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: [JMDLLEZ] not an answer - just another question i'm glad to see ellen mentioned. you hit the nail on the head, anne, with this description of ellen's version of ode to billy joe. it's one of my favorites. the closest that ellen is playing around here is in woodstock, ny this month. i'm hoping she gets closer to this area (ct/ma). thanks for mentioning this. heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of anne@sandstrom.com Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:14 AM To: courtandspark@earthlink.net Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: [JMDLLEZ] not an answer - just another question I just went back and listened to Ellen McIlwaine's version of Ode to Billy Joe. If you have any doubts about this song, THIS is the version to listen to. It 's like she took all the sweetener out of the Bobbie Gentry version and injected a shot of whiskey. Great, great version - and it doesn't leave you wondering what they dropped off the bridge so much as just makes you feel the desperation of the girl who sings the song. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 01:04:22 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: dancing to architecture....Joni and FZ Hi Mark I found this excerpt on a Zappa page about this As a result, Zappa9s official catalogue is filled with credited and uncredited guest appearances by, among others, Ike Turner, Johnny 'Guitar' Watson, John Lennon and Sting. Other performances still haven't been released, such as Van Morrison's original vocal on "Dead Girls of London" or a show in which Joni Mitchell allegedly joined the Mothers on stage and improvised the lyric, "Penelope wants to fuck the sea." Even Bob Dylan came calling one winter night (wearing no coat, with his shirt wide open) with demo tapes (for what became Infidels), looking for Zappa to produce. Zappa didn9t recognize Dylan by sight or voice and sent a bodyguard to confirm that it wasn9t Charles Manson. It would be cool to ring Dweezil up and get him to find this for us. Paz on 6/5/02 6:16 PM, Mark or Travis at mark.travis@gte.net wrote: > I believe she improvised a song/poem including >> the words "Penelope wants to f**k the sea"...with Zappa conducting the >> Mothers of Invention behind her. >> >> > Welcome, Todd. > > I've never heard about this performance but I do know there is a book of > poetry that Joni created and I believe hand printed a very few copies of for > friends called 'Morning Glory on the Vine'. It has a poem in it entitled > 'Penelope Wants to F**k the Sea' (the asterisks are for those who may get > their Joni mail at work and/or have filters that auto-delete mail with > certain words in them). I had the privilege of actually seeing one of these > rara avis when Leslie Mixon visited Seattle several years ago and was kind > enough to bring one with her and let me peruse it. (Natasha, if you're out > there, I miss you.) I believe there's someone else on the list who has a > copy of this book. > > Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #163 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?