From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #144 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, May 18 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 144 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Articles: May 17 [les@jmdl.com] Today in History: May 17 [les@jmdl.com] Worm Klez.E immunity ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: "Electricity" What's it all about? 100% JC ["hell" ] Re: "Electricity" What's it all about? 100% JC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: This Masquerade [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: "Electricity" What's it all about? 100% JC [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Learn more about how we use your information, [les ] Re: Learn more about how we use your information, [Gerald Notaro ] Re:Joni in Fiction/"About a Boy" [Gertus@aol.com] Re:"Electricity" What's it all about? 100% JC [WARREN901@aol.com] Re: Worm Klez.E immunity [Mike Friedman ] re: electricity -more stuff to ponder ["mia ortlieb" Subject: Worm Klez.E immunity les, did you mean to send this?..sounds like a familiar hoax... >>Worm Klez.E immunity Klez.E is the most common world-wide spreading worm.It's very dangerous by corrupting your files. Because of its very smart stealth and anti-anti-virus technic,most common AV software can't detect or clean it. We developed this free immunity tool to defeat the malicious virus. You only need to run this tool once,and then Klez will never come into your PC. NOTE: Because this tool acts as a fake Klez to fool the real worm,some AV monitor maybe cry when you run it. If so,Ignore the warning,and select 'continue'. If you have any question,please mail to me.<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:42:51 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: "Electricity" What's it all about? 100% JC Bob wrote: > Which you certainly wouldn't want to have for a mantra. Now, can we take > this another step along and look at "Edith & The Kingpin" & the "wires in > the wall humming some song, some mysterious song". Is there any > relationship between the song sung in "Electricity" and the wires in the > wall? The "mantra", as you suggest? Is she even referring to electrical > wires, or something different? Are they the same "wires in the wall" in > Man From Mars? Since I've been guilted into de-lurking, I might as well just keep going! Geez, Bob, and I was trying to get the boxes for the cover CDs finished.... ;o) I thought it might be interesting to search for all of Joni's uses of "electricity" (or derivatives) in songs, and analyse them one by one. There are quite a few - some maybe a little far-fetched, but I've started, so I'll finish (of course, I may have missed a couple, too)! I'm not analysing the whole songs, just the phrases using those lines. Electricity "We once loved together, And we floodlit that time, Input output electricity, But the lines overloaded, And the sparks started flying" Here she seems to be talking about the connection she has with that person, and how powerful it is. Actually too powerful, since the "lines overloaded". Although the sparks are flying, they're not "good" sparks, and she's getting burned. Edith And The Kingpin "A plane in the rain is humming, the wires in the walls are humming, Some song some mysterious song" I see this as a similar reference to the first - she can feel that electricity starting to flow between Edith and the Kingpin, but it's not quite as evident, just a humming in the walls, that's gaining in power. You Dream Flat Tires "It came to pass, Like lightening striking from above, Electric flash, Just like lightening striking from above, Struck by precious love" A pretty unambiguous reference - she's in that first flush of love, where every look and glance is like being hit by a lightning bolt. Come In From The Cold "Is this just vulgar electricity, Is this the edifying fire" A more cynical reference perhaps - she's older and wiser, and acknowledging that the "spark" or lightning bolt may not mean true love (although sometimes it does!). Maybe it's the first sign of a possibility, hence the word "edifying". Before these lines, are the lines "And so with just a touch of our fingers, I could make our circuitry explode" which I think is another reference to the spark - but she's associating that spark with youthful enthusiasm, not the wisdom of age. Yvette In English "How did he wind up here again? Walking and talking, Touched and scared, Uninsulated wires left bare" Not so much a reference to electricity, but to the rawness he feels around Yvette - raw and exposed. Man From Mars "The silence is so full of sounds, You're in them all, I hear you in the water, And the wiring in the walls" I think this is very similar to the way she used these words in EATK, except in this case, although the sounds are there, she's imagining them, rather than them being real. Love Puts On A New Face "He said "I wish you were with me here, The leaves are electric, They burn on the river bank, Countless heatless flames" Again, a more literal use of electric, referring more to the colour of autumn leaves, like fire - orange, red, brown. Of course I'm sure to have missed a few references, and this is (the same old disclaimer) just my opinion. But you did ask! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 08:12:00 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: "Electricity" What's it all about? 100% JC <> Wow - that was a pretty awesome piece, Hell! And I think you're right on with each of the references. Funny how Joni uses the "electricity" metaphor so often. Perhaps she grew up having to turn off lights & conserve electricity and grew to think of it as something precious. Maybe it's like Mark says, she has a much more acute sense of things like that then the average folk. She CERTAINLY has a better sensitivity to wrtiting about it. Bob NP: Bob Dylan, "Masters of War" Greenville SC 2/13/02 (Hey, I was there!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 05:23:33 -0700 (PDT) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: This Masquerade > > When I went back to the lyrics and read the first > > line, The Minus is > > loveless...it made me think that Minus is some > > mythical creature, alone > > on a hill, and yes I realize that this has no > > bearing on the rest of > > the song... . (my mind works in wondrous ways at > > 5:30 a.m. > > > > Like you, I love this song & am really enjoying this > thread. Maybe you were thinking of the Minotaur who > doesn't live on a hill, so much as maybe *in* one (or > under one, wherever the labyrinth may be.) I think > that's a great idea, whether Joni meant it or not! Y'know, I don't conjure an image of a man either and I only realized that with this post. I kind of think of Joni's "Art" instead - sort of an idea of something instead of a flesh and blood human being. Hmmmm.... And this thread is great - and somewhat humbling! It makes me want to rethink how I interpret all of Joni's songs! lots of love Anne > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Find, Connect, Date! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 08:53:08 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: "Electricity" What's it all about? 100% JC In a message dated 5/17/02 6:40:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: > I thought it might be interesting to search for all of Joni's uses of > "electricity" (or derivatives) in songs, and analyse them one by one. There's another reference to "electricity" in Come in From The Cold And so with just a touch of our fingers I could make our circuitry explode I don't think too much analysis needs to be done here, it speaks for itself. sexual congress, attraction ~rose ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 10:24:31 -0400 From: les Subject: Learn more about how we use your information, ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 10:36:21 -0500 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: Learn more about how we use your information, Careful. Les is infecting us! les wrote: ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 11:39:39 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Learn more about how we use your information, yeah, what's going on?? This is the second email I've gotten from him. The other had worm klez.E immunity in it's subject line. rose ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 09:44:23 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Learn more about how we use your information Joniphiles.... My apologies for these messages that appear to be coming from me - they're not. This virus thing is getting out of control. Hopefully, it will work its way out of the system soon. And, knowing how these things work, I'll apologize in advance for the porn email that will probably show up from me soon. :-) Les ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 12:04:02 -0400 From: Bob Shemkovitz Subject: Re: Electricity I've enjoyed reading the discussion here about Electricity. A lot of the listers have really given a lot of thought to their interpretations, and the multiple points of view have enhanced my appreciation for this song. It has always been one of my favorites, but I've never delved too deeply into the meaning of the lyrics beyond the basic premise of an electrical outage as a metaphor for a crashed romance. Looking and listening now, I think I agree with those of you who see Joni, or the narrator, as an observer of the story rather than a participant. It seems like she's looking at the dissolution of a relationship between two other people, and when the woman asks for the narrator's advice (And she holds out her flashlight / And she shines it on me / She wants me to tell her / What the trouble might be), it causes the narrator to reflect on a time when she was in a similar situation, apparently with the same man. But all she can do is relate her own experience (We once loved together...) without offering any advice that will help the other woman fix it. Then the last verse leaves the woman turning back to the man and asking him to help put the relationship back together. Anyway, that's my take, but I find that with Joni's songs, as with Dylan's, many interpretations and points of view can have equal validity. Thanks, Matt, for starting the discussion. Bob > Siquomb, isn't she? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 13:41:47 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re:Joni in Fiction/"About a Boy" In a message dated 17/05/02 08:07:00 GMT Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > > Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 00:57:14 EDT > From: Murphycopy@aol.com > Subject: Joni in Fiction/"About a Boy" > > "About a Boy" opens in the US today. > > The Nick Hornby novel from which this film was made has 10 references to > Joni. SIQUOMB minds want to know if there any mentions of Joni or her music > in the film. Planning to take in a movie tonight? Check out "About a Boy" > and be the first one on the JMDL block to find out whether or not Joni is > mentioned . . . and then let us all know! Hi Bob, This film's been out for a couple of weeks in the UK and I went to see it last weekend. It's a good film and really worth seeing but, sadly, all Joni references have been removed. I say sadly, but in a way it's a good thing as I think her music would have been presented in a pretty bad light if it had been included - very uncool. She's been replaced by the Carpenters and, strangely, Roberta Flack. The filmtrack is by Badly Drawn Boy which works pretty well but I think they missed an opportunity to use some of Joni's music as background which could have been even better. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:39:53 EDT From: WARREN901@aol.com Subject: Re:"Electricity" What's it all about? 100% JC okay guys, didn't any of you folks do recreational drugs ? those wires in the wall are humming a mysterious song, or at least to edith they are after she has tilted " her tired face gently to the spoon." remember she is flying " snowblind." oh and by the way " she says - his crime belongs." this song is just fraught with drug references and would make it akin to " the jungle line," which also has them. ( is it just me ? ) tell me it ain't so... humming mysterious songs, ( probably written by joni ! ) warren keith p.s. didn't you guys hear those wires in the walls ? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:32:05 -0700 From: Mike Friedman Subject: Re: Worm Klez.E immunity But note that Klez is a Windows only virus. It doesn't affect Macintosh (or other non-Windows) users. On Friday, May 17, 2002, at 12:49 AM, Kate Bennett wrote: > les, did you mean to send this?..sounds like a familiar hoax... > >>> Worm Klez.E immunity > > Klez.E is the most common world-wide spreading worm.It's very dangerous > by corrupting your files. > Because of its very smart stealth and anti-anti-virus technic,most common > AV software can't detect or clean it. > We developed this free immunity tool to defeat the malicious virus. > You only need to run this tool once,and then Klez will never come into > your PC. > NOTE: Because this tool acts as a fake Klez to fool the real worm,some AV > monitor maybe cry when you run it. > If so,Ignore the warning,and select 'continue'. > If you have any question,please mail to me.<< > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett > www.katebennett.com > sponsored by Polysonics > Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: > http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html > ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:40:56 -0500 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: electricity -more stuff to ponder I've been searching for that article I mentioned, but can't seem to find it. (Maybe I dreamt this.) Anyway, I pulled out my FTR guitar songbook today to look for other clues. Joni has alot of artwork that goes with her songs. I found a couple of quotation marks in "electricity". The first one shows up at: "She don't know the system............ The second quotation mark shows up at: "Well, the technical manual's busy........ The mystery question then would be - who is speaking these parts in the song? Stranger yet, there are no other quotation marks listed. The artwork that accompanies this song is a picture of a guy sitting by a pond with a good dog and some trees. I also looked at the cover of the songbook which has a painting of a horse's fannie with pictures inside. There is a car, but I think this is really the rented Rolls Royce from Barangrill. This painting is very interesting. Joni's face is on the horse's fannie. And dubbed over that, there is a bouquet of roses being held by women in 1930's (?) evening gowns, and a fish swimming (fresh salmon?)in the horses leg. I also see what appears to be an orange sun (the sun going down?) or moon (the moon swept down black water like an empty spotlight?). Joni's lyrics, music, and artwork never cease to amaze me! Mia (who should be studying for final exams right now) _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:08:31 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Re:"Electricity" What's it all about? 100% JC > okay guys, didn't any of you folks do recreational drugs ? those wires in > the wall are humming a mysterious song, or at least to edith they are after > she has tilted " her tired face gently to the spoon." remember she is flying > " snowblind." oh and by the way " she says - his crime belongs." this song > is just fraught with drug references and would make it akin to " the jungle > line," which also has them. ( is it just me ? ) tell me it ain't so... It ain't just you, Warren. I agree wholeheartedly. In Edith's case I think those humming wires are the result of being way too coked out. And I still think it's a reference to the drug network she describes in 'The Jungle Line' with all of that wires & pipes metaphor. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:35:03 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: "Electricity" What's it all about? 100% JC > There's another reference to "electricity" in Come in From The Cold > > And so with just a touch of our fingers > I could make our circuitry explode > > I don't think too much analysis needs to be done here, it speaks for itself. > sexual congress, attraction Actually I think most of Joni's use of the electricity metaphor refers to sexual energy more than anything else. I agree that the song 'Electricity' is about a failed romantic relationship but the 'electricity' is in reference to the sexual attraction which is only one part of it. In the case of this relationship it is so strong that it obscures everything else. All reason is cast aside when the heat gets turned up with these two people. It's so good that it's become difficult to give it up even though, overall, it's a bad relationship. For awhile the sex was good enough to make it seem like the real thing but eventually the couple's problems connecting on other levels were just complicated even more by the physical chemistry. I know when I was younger it was very easy for me to think I must be in love with somebody just because there was incredible physical chemistry between us. Too often for my poor foolish heart it just wasn't so or it was one-sided and I'm sure you can guess who the dumpee was more often than not. Rose pointed out the line from 'Come in From the Cold' about the teenage Joni forced to stay a foot away from the boys when she danced with them and how one touch could set off explosions of newly born adolescent sexual energy. In the other line from this song 'is this just vulgar electricity/is this the edifying fire?' she wonders if it's the same sensation when her lover's leg touches hers under the table or if it's something loftier, somehow purifying and soulful. I think she means something purely physical when she talks about electricity in this song and in the song from For The Roses. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:27:30 -0500 From: "Buck - the - Dog" Subject: And now for A Case of You . . . Well, thanks everybody. You've all given me the answers I was looking for and I have a new appreciation for the song now. I like how Joni uses certain lines ("He talks to the land and the leaves fall and the pond over-ices" and "While the song that he sang her to soothe her to sleep runs all through her circuits like a heartbeat") to get across the point that this person she loves has so much control over her (and the rest of the world--so she thinks) and she is so dependent on them. I can relate because it seems like that's what I'm always doing with women I (try to) have relationships with. And speaking of giving the other person the power over you in a relationship, I have a question about "A Case of You" now. Some of these lines are odd to me and I know someone can help me understand, because I was very impressed with all the thoughts on "Electricity." What exactly is the significance of drawing a map of Canada "with your face sketched on it twice." And besides that, what *is* a cartoon coaster? And what is meant by "Constantly in the darkness, where's that at?" I once had trouble understanding "I am a lonely painter; I live in a box of paints," but I now see that as meaning she is an artist who lives inside her work and is rarely touched by anyone outside her own little world and here this person has stepped in and made such an impression on it. Also, what is the significance of meeting the woman who "had a mouth like yours"? Sorry, I'm just full of analytical questions. Maybe after a few months here I will pick up some of the skills you guys have. :-) Thanks, Matt P.S. I feel like I should explain my e-mail address. Buck-the-Dog (hyphenated, like Julia-Louis Dreyfuss, or Louis-Dreyfuss, or whatever it is--sorry, only famous person with a hyphenated name I could think of as an example) is my dog for six years now and I gave him his own e-mail address a long time ago to blow someone's mind who sent him an e-card to my e-mail address on his birthday. I decided to send them a reply from Buck-the-Dog's address, and wound up using this address more than any other ones. Sorry if that makes me sound neurotic. lol _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #144 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?