From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #122 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, April 25 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 122 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in History: April 24 [les@jmdl.com] Today's Articles: April 24 [les@jmdl.com] Re: fiction or nonfiction? ["Kakki" ] Re: fiction or nonfiction? addendum ["Kakki" ] RE: fiction or nonfiction? ["Mary E. Pitassi" ] Jimi, Joni, Stills & Leary [Julius Raymond ] The Dawntreader [Lazyasz@aol.com] Re: The Dawntreader [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IFJFOiCgZmljdGlvbiBvciBub25maWN0aW9uPw==?= [SCJoniGuy@] Another free Joni cover 4U [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Another free Joni cover 4U [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Unearth exciting quotes... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] [none] [] Hello again! and more on "Is early Joni More Melodic?" ["katfud@earthlink] guitar, cool drawing of eyes and signed by joni [shane ] belated... ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: fiction or nonfiction? [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: fiction or nonfiction? ["Victor Johnson" ] RE: fiction or nonfiction? ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: fiction or nonfiction? ["Kakki" ] Re: fiction or nonfiction? ["Kakki" ] Re: fiction or nonfiction? [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: fiction or nonfiction? ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: fiction or nonfiction? ["Kate Bennett" ] Chicagoan's: Joni and US*99 Country Radio [mann@chicagonet.net] Re: fiction or nonfiction? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Priests [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Priests [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Priests [Gary Zack ] Re: "Pornographic watches & Priests?" ["hell" ] Joni and Carey ["Kakki" ] RE: Joni and Carey ["Kate Bennett" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 03:01:43 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: April 24 On April 24 in history: 1983: Joni performs at Wembley Arena in London 1995: Joni performs on the Late Show with David Letterman, singing "Sex Kills". More info: http://www.jonimitchell.com/Letterman95.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 03:01:43 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: April 24 On April 24 the following item was published: 1968: "Riverboat $1.75 Cover" - Variety (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/680424v.cfm - -------- Can you type? http://www.jmdl.com/typing/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 23:36:44 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: fiction or nonfiction? Tyler, this is a subject that sometimes pisses people off around here and so I'll try to flameproof myself in advance ;-) > Is there a definitive source for this? Has Joni > mentioned in interviews that particular songs are > based on real people and experiences? If not, how can > we be sure they are 'true', or at the very least, not > composites of several events/persons? The general answer is that she has sometimes identified a specific person, sometimes indicated it is a composite and sometimes said it is up to the listener to take their own individual meaning from any particular song. She has voiced not liking to have songs attributed to a specific person but then she has gone ahead and identified the person herself sometimes. There are many sources for what she has voiced one way or another - in the articles in the JMDL database, in books and in live performances over the years that have been preserved on tape. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 23:41:32 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: fiction or nonfiction? addendum Should have added: > The general answer is that she has sometimes identified a specific person, or cat ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 03:01:30 -0500 From: "Mary E. Pitassi" Subject: RE: fiction or nonfiction? Tyler Hewitt wrote: "We are all aware I'm sure of Joni's reputation for writing confessional lyrics. But, do we know for sure that her songs are true and/or about her own life experiences? I may be way off base here, but it seems to me that Joni would be perfectly capable of writing fictional songs. A lot of discussion has centered around who a particular song is about. When I read these posts, I always think 'how do we know they are about anyone?' Is there a definitive source for this? Has Joni mentioned in interviews that particular songs are based on real people and experiences? If not, how can we be sure they are 'true', or at the very least, not composites of several events/persons?" I don't doubt for a moment that Joni is capable of writing "fictional" songs, or at the very least, basing her work on composites in her life. And I'm sure she's done both. But it also seems to me that an artist's own life can make him or her more sensitive to certain nuances or issues, so that his/her work may end up having a distinct autobiographical slant to it, even if no such thing was intended. It's all a matter of the prism through which one sees the world. Case in point: two nights ago, I sat down to pay bills to the sounds of "Song to A Seagull" (or "Joni Mitchell": take your pick!). This is an album I first heard nearly twenty-five years ago, and thought I knew well. However, something about listening to it on that particular night, in the stillness of my apartment, and knowing what I now know about what Joni was experiencing at the approximate time those songs were written made me see her lonely, unplanned pregnancy and the relinquishment of Kilauren splashed all over this CD. "Marcie's sorrow needs a man. . . Think back to summer and hear how he tells her, 'Wait for me' " --"Marcie" "Another man reached out his hand, Another hand reached out for more" - --"Nathan LaFraneer" "A dream that you love someone A dream that the wars are done A dream that you tell no one but the grey sea They'll say that you're crazy And a dream of a baby. . ." --"The Dawntreader" "I call to the seagull Who dives to the waters And catches his silver fine Dinner alone Crying, where are the footprints That danced on these beaches And the hands that cast wishes That sunk, like a stone?" --"Song to a Seagull" It just about ripped my heart out. Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 02:12:11 -0700 From: Julius Raymond Subject: Jimi, Joni, Stills & Leary Hi folks. There's a book just out titled _Black Gold: The Lost Archives of Jimi Hndrix_ by one Steven Roby. It's purported to be "the first comprehensive biography to authenticate the lost sessions, previously unknown record collaborations, and rare film and video documents of one of the most innovative and influential rock guitarists in music history." I read in one of the entertainment papers down in L.A. that Joni was mentioned in the book. When I heard that the author was doing a reading at Marin Civic Center Library tonight, in my neck of the Northern California woods, I decided to meander over to take in the presentation and maybe get in on the Q&A. It was turned out to be rather interesting. The author showed some video footage I hadn't seen before, which delighted me. Newly unearthed footage of Jimi performing "Voodoo Chile" and "Hey Joe" on the Lulu Show on BBC televison in 1969. You may remember Lulu from her heart wrenching ballad "To Sir With Love," theme song to the movie of the same name? She had gotten her own variety-type show on BBC with her new-found popularity and the Jimi Hendrix Experience had guested. Jimi was supposed to do a duet with Lulu for their final song, but instead he defiantly launched into a Cream song ("Sunshine of Your Love"), as a tribute to the recently dissolved band. The BBC banned him for life for the stunt, Roby said. After his spiel, I peppered the author with my questions about the "Holy Grail" recordings Jimi did of Joni and himself in Seattle in '69. Well, maybe 'peppered' is too strong a word. Wallflower that I am, I meekly posed two questions, actually. Roby says his understanding is that thieves got away with those Joni reel-to-reels when Jimi's NY apartment was ripped off later that year. In his book, he only quotes the Jimi diary entry about Joni most of us have read before. So, the mystery of what music they made together that night remains. Curses! ;-) There are four Joni references in the book. The Jimi diary bit is one. There are two others that I won't divulge, so as not to rain on the parade of anyone who might want to read _Black Gold_. But I can't resist passing on one excerpt. How's this for a Joni cover?: "One of the first [Alan] Douglas productions involving Hendrix took place on September 30, 1969, at the Record Plant sessions for LSD guru Timothy Leary. Douglas assembled Stephen Stills on guitar, Buddy Miles on drums, John Sebastian on guitar, and Hendrix on bass to record an instrumental track based on Joni Mitchell's newly penned song "Woodstock." He then overdubbed selections from Leary's press conferences and titled the track "Live and Let Live." ... The album was to be part of Leary's 1970 campaign for governor of California, but when the LP was released in April, Leary was in jail for drug possession." I heard the first few seconds of the song on the Net, but couldn't quite get the gist of it in that time. Judging from what I did hear, it probably sucks. It was released on a Ryodisc CD in '92, but I wouldn't sell the farm to buy it off Ebay unless you're into weird...and you know who you are. Nevertheless, if you're a Jimi fan or a wanna be, I recommend the book. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:07:44 EDT From: Lazyasz@aol.com Subject: The Dawntreader This is probably my favorite song of hers. Does anyone have any interesting or additional information on it? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:24:35 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: The Dawntreader <> Like what sort of "additional information"? "Dawntreader" might just be my favorite song on STAS, but that's a hard pick as the record goes from one compositional masterpiece to another...I can tell you that it's not been covered but once, by The Patrick Regan Band, and it's done to great effect by them featuring both a male & female voice. I can tell you that she has performed the song live, the most interesting one that I've heard is the "Way It Is" recording, which features some background instruments that add some new colors to it. Plus it's a video, so you get to see a young Joni performing it - sweet! Also, in an unrelated story, in the morning paper there was an article about alternatives to diamonds in engagement rings, and the first stone they talked about? The Peridot. Bob NP: Steve Miller, "Your Cash Ain't Nothin' But Trash", New York '78 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:35:54 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IFJFOiCgZmljdGlvbiBvciBub25maWN0aW9uPw==?= Man, this was a beauty of a post Mary...and it sums up why Joni means what she does to so many of us. Her work is born anew every day. I mean, I still enjoy going back and listening to Little Feat & The Doobie Brothers, but they don't continually reveal life's realities & mysteries to me. As for Joni's songs being about certain people, I think Joni, like so many other great artists, writes about what she knows, people, places, and times. How could she not invest her work with the myriad images and events that she has experienced? It would be silly to think that she hasn't. And the more we learn about the things she's been through (as Mary so poignantly describes), the more the songs reveal even more depth. And as they reveal more about her, they reveal more about us as we experience the same emotions and experiences. I think the only inherent danger in the "who's it about" game is that it can tend to close you off to looking for further depth in her work. But it's certainly always a fun and interesting exercise, and certainly a natural one given the overly confessional nature of some of her stuff. Bob NP: Steve Miller, "I Love You" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:24:01 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Another free Joni cover 4U To help you make it through Hump Day (or Thursday if you're on digest, or June if you're Evian...) It's a soothing version of "Both Sides Now" from cabaret performer Celia Slattery: http://www.showgigs.com/celiaslattery/2089song4.html Enjoy! Bob NP: Matrixx, "Running Scared" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:01:21 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Another free Joni cover 4U SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > To help you make it through Hump Day (or Thursday if you're on digest, or June if you're Evian...) > > It's a soothing version of "Both Sides Now" from cabaret performer Celia Slattery: > > http://www.showgigs.com/celiaslattery/2089song4.html > > Enjoy! > > Bob > > NP: Matrixx, "Running Scared" You can also hear her sing Get Together, one of Joni's favorite songs. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:11:10 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Unearth exciting quotes... Joniphiles - Here's a quote from a New York Times review (from 1971) on the album "Blue": "I suspect this will be the most disliked of Miss Mitchell's recordings..." You too can unearth exciting quotes such as this! There are a zillion new items to type for the JMDL Library if you are willing and able... http://www.jmdl.com/typing Thanks, Les NP - Norah Jones ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:16:31 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Unearth exciting quotes... <<"I suspect this will be the most disliked of Miss Mitchell's recordings...">> I suspect it WAS immensely disliked...by her PEERS when they saw how high the songwriting bar had been raised! ;~) Bob NP: Debelah Morgan, "Can't Stop Loving You" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:27:19 -0500 From: Subject: [none] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:33:41 -0400 From: "katfud@earthlink.net" Subject: Hello again! and more on "Is early Joni More Melodic?" Hey Everyone, I recently resubscribed after having left the list shortly after 9/11. I have posted a couple of times in the last few days, but my posts haven't showed up on digest due to some mysterious technical difficulty -- so I am revamping the 2 posts and combining them and reposting them, so my apologies for any redundancy if you got my other emails... I had mixed feelings about leaving b/c on one hand, being part of the community during hard times can be a great thing, but I was feeling so completely overwhelmed by life, that I just didn't see how I could possibly keep up with it. There are many of you who wrote really nice things to me in the immediate aftermath, and many of those never got a response from me -- I apologize for not writing back, please know that I deeply appreciated receiving notes from you. I'm a lame correspondent as it is, and I was just a total zombie for months. I recently visited Alison (thanks again, Alison!) in Utah for a week, and we traipsed around the desert, and man, was that ever exactly what I needed. I'm finally waking up and feeling human again. I'm so excited that Bob Muller, my Ganja Line compadre, is coming to town. Bob, if you trumpet like an elephant, I promise to cackle maniacally, just like a good rastah. So, where's the party? :-) I'm getting excited about JoniFest! Especially so because by the time it rolls around, I will have pre-release rough mix CDs available to sell to all of you -- and I'm prepared to twist some arms! :-D No, seriously, I am working on my first full-length CD project now, and I am totally psyched, dude! It will be a mix of full band arranged songs and spare, acoustic songs. I've got the wonderful David Pilgrim on bass (a Barbados-born reggae/R&B man who would put our Ganja Line to shame), the amazing James Fernandez Yarish (of the David Pilgrim Band) on electric guitar, and hip groove master Bill Dobrow on drums. So, if I suck, at least the band won't! :-D Anyway, the CD (called "Overripeness") will be released in the fall, but I'll have some homegrown CDs available at the Fest. Hey, are any of you web designers? I'm a graphic designer and have had this notion that I must do everything myself, but my web experience is limited to one Dreamweaver class over a year ago... and I've realized it's time for me to delegate. So, if any of you can give me some leads on a reasonably priced website design/maintenance thingy, it would be much appreciated. I've already purchased my domain name (kayashley.com), but haven't taken action beyond that... The other email that didn't seem to make it through (though Kakki responded to me personally -- so perhaps people who get every email received it, but not those on digest??? ANYWAY...) was my contribution to the "is early Joni more melodic debate," which may be hopelessly irrelevant now; but for posterity's sake, here is my 2 cents' worth of musical analysis: I don't pretend to have the musical background of David Lahm, whose musical prowess I have witnessed and delighted in first hand; and I'm sure that despite my musical training, there are people involved in the debate who are more advanced than I... but I have to object to the objections to Joni's statement about her later work being more melodic and more harmonically complex. For me, the major distinguishing characteristic between her "early" and "later" work (for me, the sea change begins to occur with C&S/HOSL, and is firmly in place by Hejira) is that her early work has the overt, overarching melodic lines one would associate with European music, particularly 19th century art songs, as well as the American "folk" sensibility; and that her later work deals more with internal melody, or internal tensions -- internal dissonances and internal resolutions -- which is, in fact, much more African than her earlier work. Her earlier work could only be described as African in her occasional use of bluesy bent notes, etc. -- a superficial African attribute (though her early use of the open G tuning could arguably be blues.) The end result is that we may hear in her later work an increase in "texture," but in my view, "texture" is code for more complex melodic structures. The prevalence of major and minor seconds, both in the tunings themselves and in her chords, as well as in her melodies and harmonies increases drastically; the result is more complex colorations and thus more complex emotional response, despite the comparative reduction in "vertically" challenging melodies. I would argue that people consider her later work less melodic because they focus on the relative absence of soaring melodies of the "Song to a Seagull" ilk; in addition, the emotional complexity of her structures can produce subconscious ambivalence or even confusion, but this is only because we are not used to having our ears taxed in that way. A quick listen to some key traditions in world music will illustrate how comparatively des! titute th aural palette is, apart from true blues & jazz (this comparative destitution can largely be blamed on the dominance of equal tempered tuning systems adopted in the 18th and 19th centuries, and western music's consequent abandonment of just intonation); and to me, one of her great triumphs in music is helping to create an increased tolerance and appreciation of dissonance and complex colors in western POP music (obviously these characteristics are encouraged in Jazz, but Jazz is much less accessible for most people.) We all know that she should be more openly celebrated than she is (if I have to watch Dylan get worshipped for caterwauling nonsense on one more televised awards ceremony, I will pull out my hair), but I think that we are not clear on WHY. Yes, she is a brilliant poet and a brilliant composer; she has sung the soundtrack to our lives; and she has always been ahead of her time; but I think that the actual, core reasons WHY she is ahead of her time are not clearly understood. My contention is that she HAS become more melodically complex with time, and that it is her evolving harmonic and melodic complexity that is her major contribution and her legacy -- not her confessional lyrics, nor her "female" point of view. I think my contention is borne out by the number of "musician's musicians" who have tremendous influence and who also name her as a major influence: Sting, Prince, Peter Gabriel, Michael Hedges, and yes, even Jimmy Page, among many others; these are all artists who have produced sonically complex and innovative work, and guess what: they're men! I think Joni's influence is far deeper, more far reaching and far more profound than critics like the ones at Rolling Stone and Entertainment Weekly, etc., would ever guess. Joni was right to disdain the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame award, because those people DON'T get it; they think coquettish, more precious-than-thou Jewel and the whole Lilith Fair phenomenon is the only evidence of her legacy -- and they would never want to be perceive! d as bein " and miss a bandwagon, no matter what the bandwagon is. Thankfully those savvy Swedes get it, though, and gave her a truly meaningful award with the Polar Music Prize. Glad to be back! :-) Kay Ashley P.S. Thanks, Les!! :-) - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:43:32 -0700 From: shane Subject: guitar, cool drawing of eyes and signed by joni for those of you who need a new guitar, ebay is now selling for a charity - a yamaha acoustic guitar with a cool drawing by joni of two big eyes, one open - one closed (winking!) and then signed by joni herself and dated 2001...pretty good price so far.... only 3 days left. the link is: http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=860405752 shane www.angelfire.com/art/cactussong cd now available, inquire at cactussong@shaw.ca ************************************** you sang for me like the seagulls in their homeless liberty just floating on the dayspring in their sighing daydreams... - -from 'sandefjord' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:48:04 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: fiction or nonfiction? >>Is there a definitive source for this? Has Joni mentioned in interviews that particular songs are based on real people and experiences? If not, how can we be sure they are 'true', or at the very least, not composites of several events/persons? Anyone have opinions/comments on this?<< I do! I find this to be a fascinating subject. Ultimately, no one but Joni can say what or who her songs are really about & I don't know if she ever has said so publicly. As a songwriter I would say that it is entirely possible that some of her characters are composites. That happens often in the process because as most songwriters can attest, the song is the ultimate authority & often a songwriter will choose what is true on a deeper level than what is factual in order to make the song work. On the other hand, I have had the experience of writing a song about something that I later found out was really about something else (after many people had given me their interpretation) that was deeper & closer to me than I had consciously recognized. Songs can work on several levels that way. The reason I love the discussions about who the song might be about is that for me, it deepens my appreciation of her artistry. Its not about the gossip factor. We had this discussion awhile ago, but for an example, take the song The Midway. I've always loved that song but never thought about who it might be about. Maybe just some carnival guy. However, when a friend told me who the song was allegedly about, it really fit...many of the metaphors fit & were like hints of who it was about...& it just made her all the more amazing to me as a songwriter. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:48:03 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: belated... birthday wishes to walt- hope it was a wonderful one for you! congratulations to colin- so glad to hear you are becoming famous! thanks to rev vince- for both your humorous & insightful posts! ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:23:20 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: fiction or nonfiction? kate@katebennett.com writes: << The Midway <> when a friend told me who the song was allegedly about, it really fit... >> OK, I'm not above gossip . . . Who is it about, Kate? --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:29:12 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: fiction or nonfiction? > << The Midway <> when a friend told me who the song was allegedly > about, it really fit... >> > > OK, I'm not above gossip . . . Who is it about, Kate? Okay, if Kate won't come out and tell you, I will...its really about Jeff Bisch. He's only been pretending this whole time to be a newcomer into this whole Joni thing. Come on Jeff, confess...you're the carnival man. :~} Victor - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com "Roses wait for the springtime, They sleep beneath the ground. They hear March winds a callin' For the sun to come around."vlj Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:47:11 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: fiction or nonfiction? >OK, I'm not above gossip . . . Who is it about, Kate?< lol...well last time, a few people got a little upset at me for saying I'd heard it was about David Crosby (from a respectable source)...(though Joni is the only one who can really say)...think about it...the words, metaphors...they really fit...specially the flying (byrd) references & the devil/angel thing...he was a devil alright but with the voice, guitar, songs of an angel... I met you on a midway at a fair last year And you stood out like a ruby in a black man's ear You were playing on the horses, you were playing on the guitar strings You were playing like a devil wearing wings, wearing wings You looked so grand wearing wings Do you tape them to your shoulders just to sing Can you fly I heard you can! Can you fly Like an eagle doin' your hunting from the sky I followed with the sideshows to another town And I found you in a trailer on the camping grounds You were betting on some lover, you were shaking up the dice And I thought I saw you cheating once or twice, once or twice I heard your bid once or twice Were you wondering was the gamble worth the price Pack it in I heard you did! Pack it in Was it hard to fold a hand you knew could win So lately you've been hiding, it was somewhere in the news (he was kicked out of the byrds) And I'm still at these races with my ticket stubs and my blues And a voice calls out the numbers, and it sometimes mentions mine And I feel like I've been working overtime, overtime I've lost my fire overtime Always playin' one more hand for one more dime Slowin' down I'm gettin' tired! Slowin' down And I envy you the valley that you've found 'Cause I'm midway down the midway Slowin' down, down, down, down ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:48:25 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: fiction or nonfiction? Hi Kate, >Ultimately, no one but Joni can say what or who her songs are really about & I don't know if she >ever has said so publicly. Sometimes she has spoken publicly about her real life expereiences that inspired a song, such as "Big Yellow Taxi" (visiting an increasing paved-over Oahu); "Night Ride Home" (driving alongside Larry one night on Maui), "Man From Mars" (when Nietzsche the cat ran away), Woodstock (watching it from afar on TV), "Furry Sings the Blues" (her visit with the ailing Furry Lewis) and even "Empty, Try Another" (about an empty cigarette machine outside a recording studio whose "kerchunk" sound was later sampled on that song ;-) On many of her early taped "coffee-house" performances between songs she has chatted about some of the real life characters in her songs, including "Carey," the friend who inspired "Winter Lady," Rose from "Roses Blue" and others. Some of the songs we can easily guess about like "Little Green" (about giving up Kiluaren for adoption), "Dawntreader" (about her time with Crosby in Florida) "Willy" (Graham Nash's childhood and given name) and half of the "Wild Things Run Fast" album which celebrates her newfound love with Larry. Hearing her talk about the real story behind some of the songs only enhances them for me, too. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:56:59 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: fiction or nonfiction? Kate wrote: > lol...well last time, a few people got a little upset at me for saying I'd > heard it was about David Crosby (from a respectable source)...(though Joni > is the only one who can really say)...think about it...the words, > metaphors...they really fit...specially the flying (byrd) references & the > devil/angel thing...he was a devil alright but with the voice, guitar, songs > of an angel... Plus, remember he was famous for often wearing that big green velvet cape in performances and photos from the Byrd days! That could have given him a little "lift-off," too ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:06:55 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: fiction or nonfiction? Victor writes: << Come on Jeff, confess...you're the carnival man. :~} >> Ah, ha! So that's why he plays like a devil! And Victor, I am sorry about your job . . . but I've always found that places that are totally disorganized (like this one was) are always looking for new people to blame for being the way they are. And after they've run through many top-notch employees, they complain that they can't find any good people. You're better off without them, Victor. And if you need any JMDL thugs to distrupt their upcoming crafts fair, count me in! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:09:01 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: fiction or nonfiction? >>Plus, remember he was famous for often wearing that big green velvet cape in performances and photos from the Byrd days! That could have given him a little "lift-off," too ;-) Kakki<< lol kakki, oh those 60's fashions!!!! >>"Night Ride Home" (driving alongside Larry one night on Maui),>> I knew it was Hawaii, but love to hear that it is Maui...around the time NRH was released I was on Maui during the 4th of July...thats the place I always pictured it...i wonder what bar they were at... >>On many of her early taped "coffee-house" performances between songs she has chatted about some of the real life characters in her songs, including "Carey,"<< what has she said about carey? when i read that leonard cohen used to live in greece long ago, i thought maybe it was about him... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:11:42 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: fiction or nonfiction? rotflmao...ohmygawd...funny...hey, i'm on digest so about a half day behind ya'll... >>Okay, if Kate won't come out and tell you, I will...its really about Jeff Bisch. He's only been pretending this whole time to be a newcomer into this whole Joni thing. Come on Jeff, confess...you're the carnival man. :~} Victor<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:47:22 -0500 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Chicagoan's: Joni and US*99 Country Radio US*99 radio station 'REWARDS' site has a 'Joni' Question today http://us99.listenernetwork.com Under Rewards and then GET POINTS and TRIVIA BYTES: Question: Who wrote the lyrics, "By the time we got to Woodstock we were a half a million strong"? Answer: Joni Mitchell (for 500 points.) If you're playing and need today's other answers they are: Country Quiz of the Day (500 points) In 1996, Patty Loveless was nominated for a Grammy in the Best Female Country Vocal Performance. Which song was she nominated for? Answer: YOU DON't SEEM TO MISS ME Artist of the Day (2500 points): Gentry Montgomery Country Cafe Bonus Code (1500 points): Strawberries The country station even acknowledges her. Never thought I'd see her mentioned on here! Laura (playing those sweeps!) 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A live operator will ask you a few questions (takes about 3 minutes) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:16:04 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: fiction or nonfiction? <> That was a good listing, Kakki...the one that came to my mind was "Cherokee Louise" when she introduces it during the (I think) '95 Gene Autry show, and says it's about her friend Mary Waddington. Kate, if you don't have these recordings you better get with it chile! :~) Bob NP: Cornelius, "Fly" (bought this one tonight, because they were playing it in the record store. First time I've done that in a while) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:37:58 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Priests In a message dated 4/23/02 10:57:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: > speaking of leonard cohen, his son adam cohen is performing in santa barbara > saturday night...has anyone heard him? of course i will give you all a > report! > > Yes I've heard of him from the Leonard Cohen files site: Even though Adam's music is unlike Leonard's, his looks are the spitting image of his father's. His debut CD, titled "Adam Cohen," is scheduled for release in the middle of June. Adam says his father has always been a big source of inspiration - ever since he was 5 years old and they sat at the kitchen table making songs together. Adam was drinking Farris water and taking quick looks out of the hotel window as he described the great respect he has for Leonard Cohen; respect for him both as a father and as an artist. He is very proud to be Leonard's son. Adam says that the best way he can thank his father is to succeed in putting his own soul and identity into his music. The lyrics for his songs are very important, he explains, because he wants to tell universal stories through his own eyes as they have penetrated his soul.Adam was born in Montreal, but now lives in Los Angeles. He had a rootless period following the separation of his parents. He has written 60 songs. Before selecting the ones to be included on his debut album, he asked for assistance from other songwriters. Two of them are Phil Roy and Tonio K, who are now credited as co-writers. They were helpful indistilling the songs into the versions appearing on the CD. Adam is very satisfied with the result, as is the producer, Steve Lindsey. Adam exuberantly describes that everyone he asked to assist him came through. One person that Adam didn't ask help from was his father. But, Adam says Leonard participated in developing the album all the same. "I asked for his advice as we went along, and played demos for him. He rarely needed to say anything, because his facial expression usually told me what he thought. It seemed that he especially liked the fact that I had found my own personal voice." rose ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:39:21 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Priests In a message dated 4/23/02 10:07:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, garyzack@ameritech.net writes: > so he borrowed one of his dad's or > perhaps the tie had belonged to his deceased father and he > was in possession of it. Leonard's father died when Leonard was only 9 yrs of age. rose ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:06:42 -0400 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: Priests Hi Rose, I was really talking about the possible "fictitious" priest in the song when I made that comment, wasn't really referring to Cohen there. It's a great song! Gary RoseMJoy@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/23/02 10:07:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > garyzack@ameritech.net writes: > > > so he borrowed one of his dad's or > > perhaps the tie had belonged to his deceased father and he > > was in possession of it. > > Leonard's father died when Leonard was only 9 yrs of age. > > rose ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:26:29 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: "Pornographic watches & Priests?" Bob wrote: > This is really a great little discussion...now I'm more inclined to side > with this opinion. I've never heard of a "pornographic watch" anyway, > except maybe for a pocket watch which opens up to expose some > dirty picture or something. Surely a priest would not wear something > (even a wrist watch) that is openly pornographic. This IS an interesting discussion - as is the whole discussion about priests, etc. I've always thought this was literally a pornographic watch, but a pocket watch, not a wrist-watch. One of those ones that opens at the back to "hide" a picture of some kind. Maybe he found it, and kept it out of curiosity! As far as priests go, I've meet good ones and bad ones. When I first went to high school, it was a private boys boarding school (run by the Roman Catholic Church, although I'm not Roman Catholic) that had just started accepting day students, and girls. It was a much "better" school than the public schools in the area. But then they integrated with the state school system and it all went down-hill. Discipline was non-existent, and the principal (a priest) was rumoured to be having an "affair" with one of the older male students, so I left (or rather my parents removed me) half-way through my high school schooling. Ironically I ended up at the same school where my mother was a teacher, and she taught me for the next three years .... but that's another story! But there were some wonderful teachers (priests and nuns) and some terrible ones. I guess all I'm saying is there are good and bad people in every walk of life - unfortunately the good ones just don't make the news as often. Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:28:35 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Joni and Carey Kate, Here are some of Joni's Carey stories. I transcribed the first excerpt from the tape of her November 1972 Troubadour show (hey Les do I get some typing credit? ;-) Maybe someone would like to take on another new project to start transcriptions of her stories from the live performances - heehee) I also recall Joni talking about Carey on another tape (or maybe earlier on this one) where she said that she ran into him a few years later wandering around at the So Cal Renaissance Fair! Please excuse my lack of knowledge of the proper Greek or Crete (Cretian?) names and typos. The rambling grammar below is all Joni ;-) Kakki "I went to Greece a couple years ago and over there I met a very unforgettable character. I have a hard time remembering people's names like so I have to remember things by association, even unforgettable characters, I have to remember by association, so his name was "Carrot" Raditz, Carey Raditz, and oh, he's a great character. He's got sort of a flaming red personality, and flaming red hair and a flaming red appetite for red wine and he fancied himself to be a gourmet cook, you know, if he could be a gourmet cook in a cave in Matala. And he announced to my girlfriend and I the day that we met him that he was the best cook in the area and he actually was working at the time I met him - he was working at this place called the Delphini restaurant - until it exploded, singed half of the hair off of his beard and his legs, and scorched his turban, melted down his golden earrings. Anyway, one day he decided he was going to cook up a feast, you know, so we had to go to market because like in the village of Matala there was one woman who kind of had a monopoly - well actually there were three grocery stores but she really had a monopoly and because of her success and her affluence she had the only cold storage in the village, too, so she had all the fresh vegetables and all the cold soft drinks and she could make the yogurt last a longer than anyone else, and we didn't feel like giving her any business that day. Rather than giving her our business we decided to walk ten miles to the nearest market. So I had ruined the pair of boots that I'd brought with me from the city because they were really "citified" kind of slick city boots that were meant to walk on flat surfaces. The first night there we drank some Raqui and I tried to climb the mountain and that was the end of those shoes. So he lent me these boots of his which were like Li'l Abner boots - like those big lace-up walking boots and a pair of Afghani socks which made my feet all purple at the end of the day and I laced them up around my ankles and I couldn't touch any - the only place my foot touched was on the bottom, you know, there was nothing rubbing in the back or the sides - they were huge and he wasn't very tall, either, come to think of it was kind of strange - I guess he had sort of webbed feet or something but we started off on this long trek to the village, I forget the name of it now, between Matala and the Racqlian -and started off in the cool of the morning and by the time we got halfway there we were just sweltering me in these thick Afghani socks and heavy woolens and everything, so we went into the ruins of King Phestos's palace to sit down and have a little bit of a rest and while we were there these two tourist buses pulled up and everybody got off the buses in kind of an unusual symmetry, you know, they all sort of walked alike and talked alike and they all kind of looked alike and they all filed over to a series of rubblely rocks- a wall that was beginning to crumble - lined themselves up in a row and took out their viewing glasses, overgrown opera glasses, and they started looking at the sky and suddenly this little speck appeared on the horizon that came closer and closer, this little black speck. Cary was standing behind all of this leaning on his cane and as it came into view he suddenly broke the silence of this big crowd and he yells out "it's ah MAAGPIE" in his best North Carolina drawl.and suddenly all the glasses went down in symmetry and everybody's heads turned around to reveal that they were all very birdlike looking people. They had long skinny noses - really - they had been watching birds so long that they looked like them, you know - and this one woman turned around and she says to him (in British accent) "it's NOT a magpie - it's a crooked crow." Then she very slowly and distinctly turned her head back, picked up her glasses and so did everybody else and we kept on walking. Bought two kilos of fish which would have rotted in the cave hadn't it been for the cats. When we got back from that walk Stelios, who was the guy who ran the Mermaid Cafe, had decided to put an addition on his kitchen which turned out to be really illegal and it was so illegal, as a matter of fact, that the Junta dragged him off to jail and torture was legal over there - they burnt his hands and his feet with cigarette butts mainly because they hated, you know, all of the Canadians and Americans and wandering Germans living in the caves but they couldn't get them out of there because it was controlled by the same archaeologist that controlled the ruins of King Phestos's palace and he didn't mind you living there as long as you didn't Day-Glo all of the caves and everyone was like putting all of their psychedelia over all this ancient writing. So they carted him off to jail and when we arrived..."(tape cuts off here) More Joni on Carey from the Vanity Fair interview - June 1997 at http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/9706vf.cfm "I'd say that I was born with a gift of metaphor-which you can translate into any of the arts quite nicely-and a love of color: for the eyes, color for the ears. And I like colorful people. Some of the people that have remained in my life entered my life in a colorful way. Carey Raditz [the inspiration for the song "Carey"] blew out of a restaurant in Greece, literally. Kaboom! I heard, facing the sunset. I turned around and this guy is blowing out the door of this restaurant. He was a cook; he lit a gas stove and it exploded. Burned all the red hair off himself right through his white Indian turban. I went, 'That was an interesting entrance-I'll take note of that.' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:45:37 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Joni and Carey this is great kakki, thanks so much!...part of this transcription ("He's got sort of a flaming red personality, and flaming red hair and a flaming red appetite for red wine") helps to explain a line in Carey I always was curious about- "let's have another round for the bright red devil that keeps me in this tourist town" ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #122 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?